The Battle over Fulton Sheen's Beatification (Full LOCALS Show)

A sainthood cause gets approved, the miracle gets the green light, and then everything freezes anyway. We sit down with Dr Peter Howard to map the real timeline behind Archbishop Fulton Sheen’s delayed beatification, including the New York versus Peoria conflict over Sheen’s remains, how the legal fight actually ended, and why an “attorney general report” became the public reason for hitting pause. If you’ve ever searched for Fulton Sheen beatification updates or wondered why the story feels so murky, we lay it out step by step.

From there, the conversation turns to why Sheen still hits so hard today. We talk about Sheen’s integrity during his clash with Cardinal Spellman, why he refused to turn private battles into public spectacle, and what that restraint says to Catholics living through constant controversy. We also dig into Sheen’s prophetic edge: his apocalyptic sense of history as an unveiling, his famous warning about the “ape of the Church,” and why many Catholics feel the spiritual temperature rising as culture speeds toward deeper confusion.

We close with practical next steps and a real invitation: the beatification conference and pilgrimage tied to Sheen’s moment, plus how to think about building Catholic culture in America without losing the plot. After the interview, we keep going with a candid locals-style segment on Vatican II, Dignitatis Humanae, modern “rights” language, and the uncomfortable question of what a truly hardline pope might trigger in an already hostile world. If this helped you, subscribe, share it with a Sheen fan, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Setup

SPEAKER_05 0:32

Wow, I was caught off guard without a funny intro video. So typically we open with like a funny intro video, but when we have guests on, we it's very dependent upon who the guest is. But um Dr. Peter Howard, um we uh we were introduced by a mutual friend, and um we wanted to get you on because you guys are getting ready for uh a conference out by out I I think for for the canonization of oh not the canonization of the out of the thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Jumping the gun there. Yeah, I wish it should be it should be the canonization by this point.

SPEAKER_05 1:06

Well, that I kind of want to get into that a little bit and in what some of the drama has been around that. But before we even get into that, what you want to give everybody just like a little synopsis of what you what you guys do over at because I could I I hadn't heard of you before we were introduced, but I've been checking out your videos for the past couple of days, and there's a lot of stuff I think we're gonna get into that we'll agree on, especially some of your apocalyptic views I thought were very interesting, and I'm I'm curious to get into the uh Archbishop Fulton Sheen anti-church prophecy with you. Uh, so I think we'll we'll have a really good conversation, but you want to give people a little synopsis of what you do?

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Sure.

Dr Howard’s Sheen Mission

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Well, um I say for almost 30 years now, Sheen Fulton Sheen's been kind of uh the universe that God's put me in spiritually, historically, and prophetically, and uh He completely changed my life. So um you know during that time I was I was blessed to study in Rome and then I um was able to do my doctorate on Sheen in Rome. And uh and and every chance I've had ever since then, ever since I he kind of took a grip of me back in the late 90s, um after a personal retreat I went on, I just dedicated everything I could uh to Fulton Sheen. While I'm serving in the church in different capacities, I've served under a bishop in a tribunal. I've you know uh I I've I've do a lot of speaking, so um conferences, that kind of stuff. It's it's wherever uh the Lord will allow me to go and and and kind of hit them hard. You know, it's a lot of what I do is uh it's a combination of theology, history, spirituality, waking people up. Um, and then of course a massive call to action and very concretely, you know, a couple of things that I emphasize. So this has morphed over the years into starting a Fulton Sheen Institute right before COVID hit, and that took a blast to it, like it did for most people. Um, but it was just uh like a month or so before his beatification was supposed to happen in 2019. Um, and I I was looking at that as a launch pad. So um Gord had a delay button on that in some respects, but has used that time now since that. We we started a movement uh two in uh 2023, uh largely in response to the the cause of Sheen. This beatification was indefinitely postponed, and most people didn't understand why. Uh, and still many people don't really know um what had happened. Um, and all up until the point where just last September I was in Rome for the the double canonization of Carlo Acudis and Pier Giorgio Fersati. Took my son Beckett to be there. And in that time, I took a petition that we started when the movement started in 2023. It uh revolved around a petition, which was giving a voice to people all around the world to express their desire to have Fulton Sheen beatified, um, and for the and the re and laying out the reasons why. Um, and so it became uh a little bit of a you know um a battle, you can say. I I think I saw one of your uh titles for the show ahead of time. I think it's something like The Battle for Sheen, and I was like, oh gosh, I don't know, he's gonna go with this one.

SPEAKER_05 4:23

Um look well, we were actually we were actually trying to figure out what title we were going to go with. It's like I because I do want to discuss some of the back and forth between Dolan and Peoria. I definitely want it because I don't know if I fully understand what was going on there. I know it had to do with his remains being at St. Patrick's Cathedral, but I don't know the full story there. Before even that, though, are you are you a cradle or convert?

SPEAKER_01 4:47

I'm a cradle.

SPEAKER_05 4:48

Good boy. We like cradles, cradles, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Don't rock it, don't rock the cradle, man.

SPEAKER_05 4:54

It's convert infiltration. We're trying to put an end to it. So okay. Um, so all right, so co so you start this uh a month before COVID hits, and then COVID just puts a halt on everything because the whole world stops during COVID. Yeah, and then they delay the can uh the beatification process also during that time, and the this this fight breaks out between New York and Peoria, right?

The Fight Over Sheen’s Body

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Well, the fight between uh New York and Peoria precipitated the the canceling of the beatification back in December of 2019. Like this is why it was such an issue, and especially to me, I mean that it wasn't just because she was my world, it was because I knew she was given to the church and the world for this moment. And to see really as I saw it, um, I saw the you know the devil getting involved in this. And when you look at the facts of things, there was never a reason to ever have a legitimate reason to have paused it. So all of that was 2019. The the first thing was the battle over the body of Sheen. This was uh um, see if I can summarize this predecessor of Dolan, uh Cardinal Egan. He was uh friendly with Bishop Genki of the Diocese of Peoria. And the Diocese of Peoria, they were the diocese who took on the cause for canonization. New York easily could have done it, and they would have had the resources. It would have been not a very, you know, as far as that standpoint goes, it would have been a good place to do it. But they didn't. And so Peoria's like, well, he's he was a priest ordained for the diocese of Peoria. Uh, we're gonna do it. We need we need him as a saint. So anyway, um when Cardinal Eagle left, Cardinal Dolan came in, the the music changed. And Bishop Jenki was basically like, okay, well, since we're doing the cause, Cardinal Egan said that would be a good uh opportunity to then transfer the body from New York to Peoria. And you know, it's like okay, New York, New York, you had your chance. And but then Cardinal Dolan says, Well, that was Cardinal Egan. Now there's a new Cardinal in town, and I don't that I'm not bound to that. And he and Sheen's not going anywhere. So you can imagine behind the scenes this rift that's going on. Eventually, Fulton Sheen's um only surviving niece, Joan Cunningham, um she got involved and as next of kin could actually fight for her uncle's body. And so she wants the court case to have him released. Sheen never said he wanted to be buried in in um the uh cathedral anyway. Um and so she for a number of years she was fighting this, and she won on the uh the first level, local level, then New York appealed it. The appellate court upheld Joan Cunningham, and then it went to the state Supreme Court of New York, and then they upheld it as well. So it was like literally strike three for Cardinal Dolan. And at that point, the uh Supreme Court of New York ordered the doc the Archdiocese of New York to immediately transfer the body. So this happened very, very fast once that happened, and it was like in the dead of night, no ceremony. It was like, how do we basically extract Sheen and move him out toward Peoria, like so that nobody even knows about it? Um, the only person that really was there to capture that, the only footage on that was uh Christine Niles. Maybe you may know of Christine.

SPEAKER_07 8:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

So anyway, uh she's been a huge supporter of this entire cause and movement as well to get the truth out and um to you know to get the uh Sheen moving forward. Um,

Miracle Approved Then Beatification Paused

SPEAKER_00 8:54

so anyway, um at that point, uh, this was this was like mid-2019, right after the body was moved, um Pope Francis issued the decree that gave the formal approval of the miracle that was needed for him to be edified to be beatified. So now you've got you know two positive check marks here, and at that point, once you had the decree, it's it's literally set the date, and so they set a date um for December. Actually, it was supposed to be earlier, they were moving so fast. This was like July was the decree, and they wanted to have like a September-ish um beatification, and then Bishop Matano of Rochester began to step in a little bit more, and the there was some more kind of obstructions that were being put in there saying, Well, maybe we should look at this, and the diocese of Pure is like, why didn't you mention this earlier? And by the way, we already knew about that, so like that's irrelevant, but they kept putting things in. He um he kept it. What do you think that is?

SPEAKER_05 9:58

Like, why do you why do you think there has been such resistance to this?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Well, there's different reasons, like different perspectives you can look at it. The one that would like you could almost say what was the motive of Bishop Matano, what was the motive of Cardinal Dolan, and then the other cardinal that was involved was Cardinal Supage in the end, um, who worked with Matano to basically tell Rome they're not at all comfortable with this, and they they gave another excuse. Uh well they also said, yeah, I mean the other part was the ultimate the excuse that they gave was um there was an attorney general report that had been gathering its testimonies and investigations, things for years, like they've done in other states, Pennsylvania, Ohio, a lot of states have gone through this, especially out on the East Coast, um, in regards to the clergy sex abuse scandal. Uh, how did bishops deal with this? So look at the whole history, you know, like 50, 60 years probably, of all the dioceses within each state. Well, New York, they had theirs underway through the attorney general. And um, and then then uh eventually, I don't know if she was in it from the beginning, but then you know Letizia James is there. So um, and they said, Well, we don't have this report yet, so we're really uncomfortable having a celebration, which is what how they saw the beatification of Fulton Sheen with potential shadows that could be now. We're not expecting any shadows, but we just want to be very cautious about this. Okay, on one level, everybody could be like, Well, this is great. Uh like, I mean, not great, but okay, well, I might not like it, but that kind of makes sense. Well, the real story is there wasn't anything that could have been brought up that Rome with the Diocese of Peoria had not already looked at to get to the point where they can literally shut the case on Sheen. And so a lot of it you can say was somewhat playing on the ignorance of others, but there was a lot of power. Bishop Matano, because the reason why is Fulton Sheen was the Bishop of Rochester for three years after the Second Vatican Council. It was kind of where he was put in exile afterward from Cardinal Spellman. And um, and so it was it was that time.

SPEAKER_05 12:28

I don't

Spellman Versus Sheen Power Clash

SPEAKER_05 12:29

mean I don't mean to jump in. What was the beef between Spellman and like what is that? We'll get into that.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Well, okay. I'll summarize that. Cardinal Spellman was the most powerful prelate like in the church outside of the Holy Father during his time, even among the Europeans. He was that it was joked that he was so powerful, he was the only one who had a line to the Pope. And and his biography kind of says it all. It says America's Pope, Cardinal Spellman. Um, so he was the one who really raised and groomed Sheen for all the positions and opportunities that he had. So um, whether it be uh eventually he became archbisho uh auxiliary bishop of the of New York, but his television window uh was opened up because of Cardinal Spellman. Um, I mean, everything like he was he was I'm not a kingmaker, but you know what I mean. Like he was sheen with it.

SPEAKER_05 13:28

So modern Tupac. Kind of the old Tupac is now the kingmaker.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

He kind of, yeah. And and and he's the most feared. Yeah, it's both, it's both like you don't cross this person. So nobody ever crossed Cardinal Spellman. He was close to every Pope during his time. Well, there were two riffs that came up. Well, as soon as Sheen was made the national director for the propagation of the faith, which is now the Pontifical Mission Society, which he did for um a number, gosh, I mean for a number of years, almost 20 years or so. Um he Cardinal Spellman, who was his predecessor, kind of kept his his hands on things, or at least thought he could. And one of the things was, you know, he liked to travel around and he would bring gifts to everyone. He was like, oh, the most magnanimous person, but he was using money from the Society for the Propagation of the Faith. Well, one time he asked for some money to do this, and Sheen said no. And so it was Sheen was the first person who really told Cardinal Spellman no. He's like, No, this money's for the poor and it's not going anywhere. Well, that rift started trickling to Rome. Um, and then the but the one that broke the back of the of on the issue was Cardinal Spellman uh basically inherited or had donated to him what ended up being like millions of dollars worth of powdered milk. And he then gave them to the Society of the Propagation of the Faith, but then said, Well, I want to be reimbursed for them. And Sheen's like, uh, that's not gonna happen. One, you've given it to us, two, I know you didn't pay for them. They were gifted, you know. So that rift went to the Pope as well. But this time they had um Sheen had the receipts in his hand.

SPEAKER_05 15:25

And when Paul VI or John Paul II?

SPEAKER_00 15:28

No, this is actually um this is Pius XII.

SPEAKER_05 15:33

Oh, this is all this is before the council, this stuff is going on.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:37

Oh wow, okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

I mean, it's that's all yeah, right around that time. So um, so this was a big deal because Cardinal Spellman was asserting that these were his, and then Sheen does, he pulls out the receipts. So literally in front of the Pope, Cardinal Spellman's proven to be a liar, and so he immediately like the the relationship between him and the Pope was gonna was ruptured, no trust, and like this. It's like a movie, you could like the music changes, it goes really dark, and then there's like the you know, the death look to the like Spellman the Sheen. And he and he basically tells him afterwards, like, I'm gonna spend the rest of my time destroying you, and that's why the plug got pulled on this TV show immediately. Um, and then uh then the council came, and then after the council, Sheen didn't return to New York, New York. He he then was sent up to Rochester. So sent up to Rochester.

SPEAKER_04 16:33

Is there anything to the uh the rumors that Spellman was maybe one of the four communist cardinals that Bella Dodd named to uh Fulton Sheen?

SPEAKER_00 16:43

I really don't know. I really don't know. What uh what I would suspect he wasn't, but just from what I've I've learned about him, um I think he was a pretty conservative, if you want to use that word. I don't like you know, that's why you use that, it doesn't mean that much anymore.

SPEAKER_05 17:03

Like you could go back and you find stuff Spellman said, and he sounded very conservative, but it's kind of like it's kind of kind of weird because like even under Benedict, uh, we had a lot of the guys who we thought were like super conservative, and then once Francis came in, it's like the those guys, the the mask kind of came off and we found we found that out.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

I don't know, I really don't know. Um, but anyway, that's the story behind that whole thing with Spellman and Sheen.

Why Sheen Stayed Silent Publicly

SPEAKER_00 17:32

So it's what's interesting though is that because from that time onward, and Sheen never talked about this publicly. He would, I mean, this is uh actually one of the things that makes him, I think, a great saint because he had all the truth on his side. Um he's such a public figure that you know he he could have like today, people just bring it to the airwaves of the podcast, and it's just this all-out fight. I would venture to say very strongly that I think she would disagree with a lot of of how things are being handled today. Um, in the midst of like, yeah, you're we're fighting for truth, but there's a time where it comes in where it becomes also odd hominum and to the point where even offices themselves are attacked. So, you know, I I could agree probably with 90 to 95% of what people would say of why they're upset or why something, but you listen or you watch further, it it becomes about them at a certain point, and then they their ego steps in and the devil gets in. And in the name of orthodoxy, they're actually causing sometimes more damage than even some of the liberal nonsense and crud that we have to deal with. So the devil finds a way in either way. She was smart, he just withdrew, and then he, as he said, he didn't retire, he retreaded and he focused on priests and giving retreats. And thank God he did because it was a retreat that he gave in 1972 that was given to me when I was discerning my place in life that changed the entire course of my life.

SPEAKER_05 19:02

How old are you? What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 19:04

I'm 74.

SPEAKER_05 19:06

Stop being nonsense. How old are you?

SPEAKER_00 19:10

What did you what did you see a recording of I'm 52, so I'm born in 74.

SPEAKER_05 19:15

Oh, I was gonna all right. I'm like, wait, you were at something discerning in 72?

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Go on, no, okay. Well, yeah, I listen to a retreat that was on cassette tapes. So you and we we you and I, we we know what that stuff is. Um, but it was a remastered set, and so it sounded so clear. It wasn't like you know, oh my gosh, you could tell this is from the 1940s, or like it was almost as clear as you're hearing me right now.

SPEAKER_05 19:39

There's some great ones on YouTube. There's there's like uh, I mean, I my exposure to Fulton Sheen has been from listening to his sermons on YouTube or like rebroadcasts of his TV show from back in the day. Like, that's that's my initial exposure to Fulton Sheen. And is he still just as much of an evangelist now after his death as he was while he was alive? Like, I know countless people who came into the faith because they heard a Fulton Sheen sermon or they read his book, The Life of Christ, or something like that, you know?

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Yeah, well, I mean, wisdom, wisdom and holiness is is timeless, and that's also where another thing that kind of uh I think characterizes some um somebody who's full of the Holy Spirit more than others, um, at least what what in when they produce certain things, like for Sheen, I've never heard something that hasn't has a thunderous effect on me, um, unlike others. And it's not saying like others like aren't holy or whatever, but you know what I mean? Um when I listened to him on on that retreat, I had not I never even knew of him, other than like a reference with no actual citation of anything. It's like, oh yeah, Fulton Sheen was the and that was like it a few times, and that that was right after this is right after uh my undergraduate at Franciscan University in in Steubenville. So I had great professors, I mean outstanding professors. I never heard of Sheen. And so when I put him on, I actually thought he was English or Irish, and the way he talked, it had like an Irish tinge to his uh his voice, even though he's from Illinois. Um, but anyway, that yeah, like he gripped me. It's like that when people would heard Jesus, you know, who's this man who speaks with such authority and like where's he from? And it's kind of funny because like Sheen, you know, he's from El Paso, Illinois. Everybody's like, well, where's that? Like nobody knows where that is. It's outside of Peoria, it was a farm area. So anyway, um, yeah, just uh extraordinary uh power, and not to get in, but if you look over my shoulder here, kind of pointing at it right there. Oops, tell me this. This was a sign that he was meant to be in my life later on. The guy who recorded that retreat in Dallas, Texas, it was the priests and seminarians. His name is Dan Stefan. Great man. Thank God he recorded this because that literally changed my entire life. Um, I our paths crossed when I was doing my doctoral work, and he gave me the original remastered CDs that he had from that retreat. And then he said, I want to give you something else that you alone would probably appreciate more than anyone. And he he gave he called it his Sheen Shrine. And in it was a glass globe in this big box, I and pictures of him and Fulton Sheen and a handwritten letter on uh as well, and was this microphone, and that was the microphone Fulton Sheen used for the retreat that I listened to.

SPEAKER_05 22:41

Oh wow, isn't that pretty cool? And so that'll be what a second class or a third class rather than yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

I'm looking for a piece of hair or something, but this is a first class.

SPEAKER_05 22:53

I'll claim it. So bring bring us up to date now. Like,

Petition To Rome And A Date Returns

SPEAKER_05 22:57

where where are we at? We have a we have a date set for the beatification, like uh Pope Leo actually put a date on the calendar now, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yeah, well, they worked it out with the um the diocese of Peoria, and it moved while it was it seemed like it was never moving, you know, for a while because that insistence of we have to get this um New York report, well, we're almost seven years later, and it's and actually it's still not out, it never came out. So I'd like to think that everyone who was involved in our movement had a a part to play in that. The fact that when I went to Rome last September, I um I I beautifully, or actually, my wife beautifully uh prepared the petition in the box, and we brought it to the Dicastery of Saints because I I promised everybody said, Look, if I ever get to Rome, I'll deliver it. And that's what happened. And I also said, if I get to Rome and I get close with the Pope Leo, I'll just shout out, please, you know, let's get him back on track, beatify him. God answered both of those prayers within 24 hours. Um, so I was able to go and drop off the petition and actually speak with the Dicastri of Saints about the whole thing, where it's at, where it's going. And they just confirmed the history that I knew. Rome never ever had a problem. There wasn't a reason to really stop it the first time, but because of the insistence of the prelates in America, they kind of said basically, Well, you guys worked this out.

SPEAKER_05 24:24

Well, the the thing is it never got worked out because the because the church doesn't have the uh devil's advocate anymore, they were able to use that. And because it should have been something that the church was able to do their own due diligence on and they would have known, which they probably do, like you're saying, like they they have had all this time to research it themselves, but there is this report looming still, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

So I get I I but in the end, as we know today, like we we don't have that report hasn't been published, nobody really knows what's been in it so far, and that was the number one reason that was used. So it just verifies the fact of it was never a valid excuse, it was something that we had to simply deal with, and that's why, like I said, that's why we had a movement to at least I can talk about stuff, but people might expect me to say those kinds of things. But when you have people from around the world and you're gathering signatures, and then you go and they see what you're doing in Rome and you and that you deliver it. I have an interview that I did um with the guy. He, I mean, the the under-secretary let me record, video record the whole thing. Um, he gave it to Cardinal Semeraro, who wasn't there that day, but he assured me, and I believe him, he was going to do it right after. Great conversation. And then the next day I saw Pope Leo at an audience. He was literally, you know, eight feet in front of me because his little Pope Mobile stopped. There was a baby next to me, and you're like, oh my gosh, this is a great setup.

SPEAKER_05 25:53

Yeah, we're bringing babies to Rome with us when we go. I know. We're hoping to get the hand off. Hopefully, get the hand off, and I'm gonna throw him a pack of knickknacks if I'm close enough.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Exactly. So but it worked out. He they stopped, and I just I was like a kid, so I who knows what I said, I'll probably embarrass me, but it was like, you know, Holy Father, please be out of Fulton Sheen. Please be out of Fulton Sheen. I think at one point I said bless Fulton Sheen, but I kept saying it kind of like I think it was like Zacchaeus in the tree, you know, like trying to get his attention. And eventually he stopped and he looked at me. And he this is all rather fast though, but I have it on camera. And he gave me a quick thumbs up, and then you just kept going. Yeah, for me, it was like prayers answered, like and then within a few months of that, then it was leaked out from the the pillar. Um, and that uh that a beatification date was imminent, which means the Holy See basically told Peoria, pick a date now. Yeah. So there we are. And and so now seven years later, it's like I don't want to say it's a lot of it, it's good because we're at this point. I don't like to get back and try to relitigate a lot of that. I mean, sometimes it's good just to people can understand the history too, because you know, why like how could this have happened? And I pray that this never happens again, that that that that's even possible. Um, but you know, now we are, and I I I would argue, even though it's been uh a painful wait, uh not because of like all our efforts weren't recognized, it's because Sheen's all about the salvation of souls and the you know the conversion of souls. That how many people could have been reached in six and a half years with Blessed Sheen when he like you know, this this beatification will be shockwaves going around the world. Many people will rediscover him who've heard of him, others will be like, Well, who is this guy? Because everybody's gonna be talking about him for at least a period of time.

SPEAKER_05 27:48

And yeah, it's like when Carlo Ocudis was was uh canonized, it's like all we've everybody was just talking about Carlo Ocudis for for how long.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Yeah, and and and the times in which we live now, we need to take really good inventory of who the saints um that are that are being raised to the altar right now and why. Um,

Sheen’s Apocalypse And Anti-Church Warning

SPEAKER_00 28:11

and and that's the big thing with Fulton Sheen. It's not just because he was kind of this TV celebrity, like, oh my gosh, I watched some things, I was moved by him. It's I to have another whole episode on this, but when you look at this, uh as Fulton Sheen says, God doesn't do anything in history without the greatest finesse of detail. I I quote this all the time, but it's one of my favorite quotes because you have to look at why is Fulton Sheen being beatified now, why is his feast day December 9th? Which like I could just say that one day is the acorn, as you unpack that, that explains all the significance of why Sheen is one of the greatest saints to be brought at this end of this era, as he called it himself. He says, We're living in the days of the apocalypse, the last days of our era. Like, well, what does that mean? So, anyway, but that's he's not just using this symbolically, you know, he talks about the church having 500-year cycles. We're at the end of this fourth cycle of 500 years, and I would argue that that cycle began at the Reformation, yeah, 1531.

SPEAKER_05 29:21

Yeah, yeah, he wanted to say he he also He was very apocalyptic, and most definitely in that one talk that I mean that famous talk he gave where he talks about the church and the anti-church. Uh does he call it an anti-church, or is he he said he says the the body of the the mystical body of the devil will look like the the the body of Christ and the mystical body of Christ and the mystical body of antichrist.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

He called it the ape of the church, the ape of the church, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:54

Yeah, yeah, it's kind of interesting, man. Like because um so do you have a very apocalyptic view uh for the times that we're in right now?

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Absolutely. I mean, I I definitely agree with Sheen. Uh, even um you know, my other passion is Mariology. So when I wrote on Sheen, it was basically the what was the the heart of his Mariology um and and marrying the modern world. Uh and and Sheen, this guy was his insights were not just brilliant, but they were so so prophetic that the more we learn about Sheen's connection with the history of the last 500 years and and where we're going, I would say within the next you know, seven years, um it will it will not only just blow your mind because it's really undeniable, these kinds of connections, but it gives us a lot of hope because everything around us, we see we we see nothing, well, we see very you know little other than shadows and things getting worse, wars, rumors of wars, um, our country you know being marched into like just insanity, you know. Um, people ask you, well, what would Sheen say or you think about what's going on now? Um, I I would just say he doesn't agree with anything that's going on right now. Um, but anyway, uh, but apocalyptic view from a strict meaning of the word, you know, a Greek word that means unveiling. That's what's happening. That's even if you weren't a theologian, the the world is waking up. Yeah, the veil's being lifted on many, many different layers. On a spiritual level, it's not only being lifted, the veil is also getting a lot thinner. We can see very, it's almost you know tangible the evil that's before us, yeah. Um, because it's also knowing its time is short and it's like a bear that's cornered, and it's not just gonna like crouch down and start whimpering, it's gonna eventually it just go all out. And that's kind of where we're at. So it's good to see you know people wake up, especially Catholics. I think Catholics are the slowest, in my experience. The Catholics are the slowest to wake up to what's really going on in the world. Um, they've been very trusting of secular media um and the just propaganda of you know, if you if you question any narrative, you're a conspiracy theorist. And and then if you say, well, that was a conspiracy, just how we got to that word conspiracy theorist by the CIA uh after the JFK you know assassination to cover up any uh opposing arguments, you know. So it's like we're we we're in such an information war that it's uh it's it's changed, it's it's challenged. But Sheen said himself, he says only those who really have faith really know what's going on in the world. He said most people really don't know what's going on, yeah. Um, and so that I so it's apocalyptic in that sense that we experiencing this, and I said at the same time, we are we are at an end of an era, and I'm clearly coming to the end of something, right?

SPEAKER_05 33:11

Like you could see the the the civilization around us is hanging on by a thread. You can see the the the world has its own plans on what they think they want to do. I personally think we'll see the Antichrist in our lifetimes. I mean, depending on how old we are or how long we live, but um I Rob is alive right now. Yeah, I think he's very well could be on the world stage right now. Um, yeah, I I have this pressing feeling like we are racing towards the battle of Armageddon right now. Like that that's what the world feels like it is racing towards the battle of Armageddon right now.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Well, I think I mean literally, I guess Armageddon will be at the end of time. Um because that's where the final judgment will be. Um but we're think of it this way, if you think of Fatima, there's going to be a tr a real triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and there's going to be an era of peace. These aren't just casual words. That word era is very, very important. And it was to Sheen as well. Um, and like I said, like if we started unpacking the significance of 1531.

SPEAKER_05 34:35

So do you so do you think that era will be a 500-year era?

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Oh, I don't know what I don't know what yeah, I don't know uh because I don't know when the end is.

SPEAKER_06 34:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Um, but uh when you look back at history, as Sheen was doing, he was describing how there was always a big crisis that needed to be dealt with um in the world and how is it how it affected the church. And so the you know, the fall of the Roman Empire, the first turn, and we had Gregory the Great, and then we also had 500 years later, we have the Great Schism in the church, um, and the preparation at the same time for the medieval era, which became halfway through the high point, or near the end of it, I should say, um, in the 13th century, 16th century. Now we have an all-out assault within the churches on the faith itself.

SPEAKER_05 35:33

And you have second Christendom popping up in South America during that whole period.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Yeah, I mean, it's it's yeah, you can look at it as as the disintegration of Christendom.

SPEAKER_05 35:43

Um in Europe, but in South America, there's like second Christendom popping up because Our Lady appears in Guadalupe down there.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

It's it's yeah, well, it's interesting. Yeah, that that that's a great point that nobody really talks about. The foundations of what is to come are there. But what's interesting is like it started there, um, and how this the faith spread down because of um the Spanish, you know, Portuguese settlements down there. But that's south of obviously Mexico City, because you know, Mexico City is modern-day Mexico City, where she appeared, is the geographic center of all the Americas. So the North has is not claimed for Christ explicitly or even for the Catholic Church as the South was. But what's this interesting interesting is that all the kernels, the foundations of what is going to happen, because there's no doubt in my mind, and I don't, and this isn't like just I don't mere speculation, it's a theological conclusion, but it's also based on history and seeing what's happening. The future of all the Americas, but especially North America, is Catholic. It there's our country, as we celebrate our 250th anniversary, as we know it, it's over. I I say that you know, I I don't mix my words on that. We've tried everything.

SPEAKER_05 37:07

I gotta talk about it because Rob's over here saying that Mexico City is not South America. It's all it's all Mexico, it doesn't matter. Everything is Mexico, so yes, it's Central America. Everything's Central America. I'll go with that. It's North America, it's all everything South America.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

Okay, yeah, you can get your roller out, I guess. But if you look at it, oh no, I'm making fun of Anthony.

SPEAKER_05 37:27

Yeah, he's making fun of me because it's a lot of people. He gets mad at me when I say this.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Right, he's from New York, you know?

SPEAKER_05 37:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's probably school for New York.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Sorry, I read a broadcast with an auto. No, but it's it is an interesting point, though, in that because it it did make me think of how it's well, first off, our Western mother claimed the bottom half of the Americas, and and it was Catholic explicitly in its culture and all that, in the indigenous groups and and and Mesoamerica at large. And then, but then when you looked you know to the north, of course, you have um now the United States, a very young country, of course, Canada. And the roots of the land that we had that preceded our country's founding was Catholic. You know, when you look at the the names of the the Mississippi River, it was called the River of the Immaculate Conception. So that's another thread that everyone really needs to learn here because the age of Our Lady of Guadalupe is the age of the Immaculate Conceptions, the era of the Immaculate Conception. I love talking about this, but I just know I could do this in here. But that's why the the the date that she appeared December 9th. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that that goes all the way back to the 5th century. That was the original feast day. Um, and you also have the um the Aztec, although they didn't this didn't become her name, there's some some things that aren't exactly accurate when people say that uh she called herself Quatasupe, which is the Aztec word. Um but what's interesting, she like she really did reveal her name as Guadalupe. But what's interesting is that the Aztecs couldn't naturally pronounce Guadalupe. So if they were to say who she was, they would say Quatka Supe. It's about the closest thing, and the meaning of Quatkasupe is the woman who crushes the serpent. So Genesis 3.15, first scripture of the feast of the Immaculate Conception after in 1854 and afterward. But Asheen says the modern era really began in um in 1858, when you had Charles Darwin writing Origin of Species, you had John Stuart Miller having an essay on um economics and as freedom from the law, um, and you had Karl Marx, who wrote an essay on political philosophy, I think it was called, I forget the exact title, but says um religion is anti-human. So you have the big assaults that would um form the the great the three great philosophies that would be at war with Western civilization, Christian Western civilization up until the modern time. And the reason why Sheen said this was so important also is because as Darwin is asserting, and now that we've seen everybody picking this up, you know, I I caught I was with actually I was listening to your previous episode not too long ago talking about the earth and Darwin and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_05 40:40

Um I was John Burgs and his son on with us, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

So um anyway, basically, Carl uh uh um what's his name? Darwin with his origin of species is saying man's an animal. And if man's an animal, then man is without sin. And if man was without sin, then as she put it, we're all immaculately conceived. Heaven's response wasn't to send a bunch of theologians and philosophers to come down and answer that. He sent his mother the same year to into Lourdes France, and what does she say at the very end? I am the Immaculate Conception. A loaded phrase as Saint Maximilian spent his you know his last years obsessed with that. So, like, what does that mean? Um, so that really like that's why we see this Marian era after the French Revolution, which everyone should understand as well, which was the way all the philosophical framework for then Marx, or Darwin, and John Stuart Mill and others to have this anti-human campaign to remove the image of God in every way from man. And today we've come to the end of the ideology and the philosophy of communism, which is not just reducing or removing economic inequality, it's re it's re removing what it would consider all contradictions that would go after um uh husband and wife in a home, the what the family then means, all the way down to the gender difference itself. All of these things have to be kind of reconciled, synthesized into something that is generic. We're at that with the whole gender ideology war, the trans, and now it's transhumanism. You know, you talked about this battle of what's going to be coming. Well, yeah, it's the great reset of the World Economic Forum. You know, it's been lots of names, New World Order, and then you have the Kingdom of Christ. So that's what the Kingdom of Antichrist is. It's a complete counterfeit of all the things that the kingdom of Christ is. And like and if you look at AI and where we're going scientifically, there we're not going to be around the three years unless there's probably some major intervention. That's how fast things are moving right now.

SPEAKER_07 42:56

Yeah, I feel the same way.

SPEAKER_05 42:59

Yeah, it's like uh things speed up towards the end of the cycle, like things start happening more with more rapidity towards the end. It's like uh unless these days were shortened, you know.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Yeah, yeah, unless even the elect be deceived. That should sober us. A lot of people are like, hey man, I'm there's no way. Like I know I'm so grounded in the truth and this and that in the orthodoxy, which is okay, that's great. But what the fact that that was said, that should humble us all. Like, well, you know, those that you think might make it or would be strong aren't strong. Yeah, and I don't know, sheen says we'll be well, we're in for a lot of surprises. He said the biggest surprise would be if we find ourselves in heaven. So, anyway.

Beatification Conference Plans And Pilgrimage

SPEAKER_05 43:48

Um, so what are you guys planning with the conference now? You you have a conference that you guys are doing now. Is it in is it like this uh in alignment with the beatification? Like, what do you what are you guys doing out there? And whatever is they give people info? How can they find out about it?

SPEAKER_00 44:02

Yeah, thank, yeah, thanks for letting me talk about it. Um, it's uh it's a beatification conference that our the Fulton Sheen movement is putting on. It's not associated with any of the activities of the official Archbishop Fulton Sheen Foundation, who worked with the Diocese of Peoria and works with the Diocese of Peoria for the canonical cause of Sheen. Like, you know, they were all involved to get all the work done to you know to get Sheen so that he's now ready to be uh beatified. But there's interesting is that as soon as we heard about the the announcement, like, okay, we need to have we have to have a conference. Like, how are we gonna do it? How are we gonna afford it? Honestly, we don't know. We're we're extremely grassroots, we're not we're not coming from you know donations from anything large. People have been uh good just stepping up now. But uh, this is a conference that we're doing because and and it's the eve before the beatification. The beatification's on Thursday, September 24th. Our conference is the day before on Wednesday, September 23rd, and it's all day. We have Bishop Joseph Coffey, who's gonna be with us from the military archdiocese. Uh, he'll be with us. We have a pilgrimage that's actually happening that begins even earlier from the 19th of September in Peoria. On the 20th, we celebrate Sheen's anniversary to his priesthood. That's when he was ordained in 1919. And then we have a couple of days in Illinois or Peoria and seeing Sheen, his museum, venerating him. We also have a Byzantine dimension to what we do because many people don't realize Fulton Sheen was Byzantine. He was the first.

SPEAKER_05 45:42

Oh no, he was a Biz LARPE. I don't know if I could finish this. Oh my god, no, no. We got a couple Byzantines in the chat right now. They're gonna be thrilled to hear that.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Yeah, well, he was the first, he was the first to uh to celebrate the divine liturgy in English. Wow, and over a hundred thousand people were in attendance.

SPEAKER_05 46:02

Where did he do that?

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Uh in Pennsylvania, and I'm trying to think of the it's not Doylestown, it's another place, anyway. It's Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_03 46:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

So um, and he he the reason he was by rituals because he was he was the number one enemy of the communists. He knew communism better than the communists, and he knew the threat of it. Um, as I was talking about, just like those those three philosophies all circulating in the 19th century. He knew where it was leading and he warned America. This is another where way he was really prophetic to where we are today. And he was he wanted to draw close to the to the um to the Christians who were suffering under communism. So the way that he did that was he he became biritual, so he would celebrate the divine liturgy and connect his episcopacy with them. Because he always he we talk about how the uh a bishop isn't just consecrated for his diocese, he's consecrated for the world. So I love that about Sheehan. He's a really he's a truly Catholic saint. He's he's east and west, he's both lungs, and I think he's a huge he'd be a huge bridge for the whole Orthodox, you know, uh thing that we need to fix up. I mean, there's actually nothing to be fixed, it's all historical. And at least that's the way I've always understood it when I was studying it many years ago. You know, it's anyway.

SPEAKER_05 47:26

So okay, so the conference is in Peoria.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

It's in St. Louis. So yeah, sorry, we get all these little parentheses. Um we start in Peoria uh on the pilgrimage. The conference is the last part of that, it's separate. You don't have to be on the pilgrimage to do this, but it's it's all day at St. Louis, just outside of where the beatification is. Um, it's the beatification is at the Dome in America Center in St. Louis, which I thought that was interesting. Um, and then uh our conference is uh just outside at the um Hilton St. Louis Frontenac. And um it is a is a conference where the real theme of it with the theme is is he's America Saint. So that's that's the big part of it.

SPEAKER_05 48:14

Is he we were we were talking, we did a show uh our last episode we were talking about how like uh how how can we form like a uniquely Catholic culture? Like because you see remnants of European culture, European Catholic culture everywhere, you know. You see uh if you have like a large Italian population, you'll see they still do processions like they did in Italy, Spanish, the same thing, but we don't have like a uniquely American tradition, like Catholic tradition yet. And I think I think we mentioned Fulton Sheen as like maybe like the basis of starting something like that, like our first like real American saint. I mean, I know we have a couple of others, but he would be like truly the first real well-known American saint that I think we could develop some traditions around to maybe start something cultural.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

Well, check this out. I was just looking for it. So if you're wondering what I'm I'm not watching, it's some other show. Um, I pulled this up because it wasn't too long that I came across this that would also really solidified um the title we had chosen out before we I even really knew all of this. But he Sheen says this because he's he talks about America needs a modern saint. And he says, America needs a saint, an American saint. After 300 years of Catholic life, we cannot point to one saint who was born in this great land, who was educated in our schools, and showed in crisis how an American Catholic can relive the life of Christ crucified. We have the greatest Catholic school system in the world, the widest forms of charity work, the most compact army of teachers and religious, but the niches of our churches are empty. Our dollars are cleansing lepers, digging wells for Muslims, setting up chapels in Nigeria and orphanages in Japan. But we must be more than hewers of schools and drainers of dollars. We must give to the world more than our gifts. We ought also to present it with a saint, a saint to prove we are not as materialistic as some believe, a saint who would be a priest and preferably a bishop, to prove that sanctity in a nation must begin with the bishops, then the clergy, and finally the faithful. He goes on, he says, Um let's see.

SPEAKER_05 50:29

That alone, what an amazing quote that alone the irony, he's describing himself. Yeah, but he's also pointing out like how how like a man who a bishop truly like truly formed in it and who truly loves Jesus Christ, like does see his role as bishop to be the saint to lead the others to Christ like that. Like that's what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 50:56

The culture that we need has to be led by the church, and of course, connected to the apostles himself. I mean, I'll just go on a little bit because it's he actually then says who he's talking about, and you might take a little bit of pride in this um by the end. He says, uh, a saint who needs, let's see, who needs uh who must be born here but need not die here to prove that the melting pot of American bubbles bubbles over in its love of humanity and pays back the debt of immigration that made us great. A saint who might have been so American as to have gone to school in Brooklyn. For what city has such a ring of Americanism about it? A saint who would have served the church in other lands, for though he for though we want a saint from America, we do not want a saint who was only for America. We ought to present the world with a saint so American that his grandfather might have fought in the Civil War and his uncle might have lost his life when the Merrimack sank the Cumberland, whose father might have been the first newspaperman to publish a paper with a circulation of a million, whose grandfather on his mother's side might have driven one of the first trains into Des Moines, and whose parents might have been marked married by an American bishop. We need a saint so American that as a boy he would like all American boys, make fun of anyone with a foreign accent, and then prove that he meant it in such good faith that he would take the message of the gospel into foreign lands. In a word, we need a saint so American that he might have the same name as one of our automobiles. Saying that we want a saint like this is not to say we have one or will ever have one, but we believe we have a candidate to submit to the church for her decision in our great American missionary to China, Bishop Francis Ford. So that's who he was talking about in the end. But if you just took out that last part, you'd be like, oh my gosh, this is she.

SPEAKER_05 52:53

Yeah, but the the the fact is he wasn't speaking of himself, which you know what I mean. So it's like he he he he what he was but he's kind of right. Like I think I think that we do need an American icon for us to look to. You know, like that's that's the whole purpose of icons. Is that it's like we like we see a bit of Christ in that person and we try to emulate that person because we see Christ in them. And yeah, Sheen definitely, definitely, definitely uh is a great is a great candidate that they're putting forward.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Well, I think the fact that it's this year, the 250th anniversary, how do you ignore that connection?

SPEAKER_05 53:35

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, also people say we can forgive them the immigration line. Immigration back during this speech is not immigration today, it's a lot different, right? Like he should be the Italian and the Irish immigration.

SPEAKER_00 53:48

It's just disgusting. It's like you can't even say certain words.

SPEAKER_05 53:51

But that's where we are in our culture today. But you have to you have to put it in the context at the time that he's speaking about, and he's speaking about the European immigrants that came to our country and really did make this country what it is, other than uh Rob's ancestors, whatever comes from.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

The Vikings, the Vikings, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:10

I don't know. He's Mongolian, I think. I don't know what he's talking about. Uh kid, okay. Um, okay, so how can people purchase uh tickets to go to the conference?

Tickets Speakers And Why Sheen Matters

SPEAKER_00 54:20

How can they actually thanks for keeping just bringing this back like a tether ball? You know, I can't get too far away and you gotta get back. So let's just back up for just a second. Wednesday, September 23rd, all day at the uh Hilton Frontenac in St. Louis, uh is our Fulton Sheen, blessed Fulton Sheen, America Saint Conference. Um Fulton Sheen Conference.com is how you can learn. You can see all the speakers that we have. Um, and you can see uh an idea also of what the schedule is. Of course, we have a holy hour in it that was uh absolutely probably I think the foundation of why Sheen is a saint, where he got his heroic virtue from, because that's what a saint is defined as. Um, so we have a daily holy hour that Bishop Coffee will lead. And then we've got speakers all throughout the day. Speakers who are aren't just sitting there like rah-rah. Oh, like look, you know, here's a a story of Sheen. These are people whose lives have been like radically impacted by him. One of my favorites, he's actually become a friend of mine. Everyone should get to know is uh Jason Jones. I'm not sure if you're familiar with him.

SPEAKER_05 55:32

Yeah, we know who Jason Jones is.

SPEAKER_00 55:33

Yeah, hopefully you're you're nice to him.

SPEAKER_05 55:35

I I would like to get him on, actually. I think he's he doesn't mess around. Speaking of some very important topics right now that I would like to get him on for.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

So yeah, well, he he's he is I call him he's the uh like Roosevelt, the a man in the arena. Um, I mean, he's there in Gaza, he's in Nigeria. Like when he talks about things, he's actually been there, he knows the people that are there. Um, and what Sheen, the heart of Sheen was to the vulnerable, and a lot of times people forget that because they just oh, they're just wowed by his intelligence. And so, but this is something like he that's what kept him humble was his connection with the missions, the poor, the persecuted, the suffering. That's what really taught Sheen what it meant to really be a follower of Christ, and so Jason captures that, and he's also been in the Hollywood, yeah, he still is in the Hollywood scene movie production. Um, so anyway, he's just one of the speakers, you know, that we have. Um, so uh Arthur Brooks, people may know of him. Uh, he's a fascinating guy who brings who who talks about the themes of um that Sheen talks about quite a bit, like happiness, which people might think that's kind of generic. Like, no, that's what we're all seeking, so we better understand it. And Sheen says we're gonna have to start our evangelization of people from the human condition and then work the things divine. Arthur Brooks does it so masterfully in his realm of neuroscience that you see the complementarity that should be in the messages that we give, because it's all in the context of the incarnation of Christ and our humanity is is is the means to um to what we know, to what we love. Um, our you know, it's just very tabistic anyway. So he's one of our keynotes, Jason's another keynote. Um and but check it out. We have a whole lineup of people there, but fultonsheenconference.com is where you can go and get the tickets. We actually have rooms at that hotel where the conference is taking taking place. We we have the whole like floor reserved. Um, it's gonna be fantastic. And uh, if you want to stay there, we we can even help you get beatification tickets. We do have uh certain ones reserved for those who want to go all the way and stay with us. So fulton sheenconference.com is where you go. And I hope that people will make this this will never happen again. Ever. I mean, yeah, there'll be she conferences like you have your Sikh conference, like 2025, the Sikh Conference 2020, like the Beatification Conference for Sheen, just to prep to prepare for the beatification, which is I think more important so that when the when that proclamation comes the next day, you really get why he's America Saint, like what this really means, because the beatification is a launch point of of the next phase of a worldwide movement to bring Sheen into every single household. Because when that happens, as you we you've you've experienced, I've experienced it, everyone who's known Sheen experiences it. He whole hearts and and and and families are changed, so that's why we're doing it, and we're the only one having a conference. Like that shocked us.

SPEAKER_06 58:48

Yeah, it is interesting.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

Isn't that interesting? So you I hope you're gonna be there. It's not too far to drive.

SPEAKER_04 58:55

He's probably gonna be on vacation that way.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

East Coast standards, like if you go to like Pennsylvania, you know, or or no, if you go to like Virginia or North Carolina, you feel like you need a passport. That's how that's how I grew up in New Jersey. It was like tri-state area, you know. Now I've just traveled most of the Western world.

SPEAKER_05 59:12

It's not bad. I used to go there all the time.

SPEAKER_00 59:13

So it's pretty cheap to go into St. Louis. So I hope we uh get some of your or a lot of your viewers to get so okay.

SPEAKER_05 59:20

So one more time, what's the website?

SPEAKER_00 59:22

Fultonsheen Conference.com.

SPEAKER_05 59:25

Fulton Sheen Conference.com. What's the date of the conference?

SPEAKER_00 59:28

Wednesday, September 23rd.

SPEAKER_05 59:31

Yeah, I mean, that's a good way to wrap up the summer. That's a pretty awesome thing to go do. If you guys are in the area, Fulton Sheen Conference.com. Um, Dr. Peter Howe, it's very nice getting you on, getting to know you. I think we should maybe after the conference get you back on to do like a history show or something. You seem to give a wealth of knowledge on history and comes together.

SPEAKER_00 59:52

All of our theology works has to work with history as it does with philosophy. And um I mean, there are certain areas that I, you know, I'm pretty obsessed with because I think it's the main artery that if you were to draw a line of like how you really can make sense of everything that we're experiencing, that's what I focused on and and and still focus on. And I it it gives I think it gives a lot of hope, even though we got, you know, as they said in Lord of the Rings, you know, the battle of Helbs Deep is is over, but the battle for Middle-earth has just begun. That's kind of how I feel where we are right now. And Sheen comes in as a general Douglas MacArthur, and he's got like just like like MacArthur said to the Philippines when he left, he's like, I'll be back, you know, a very short snagger line. But he did, he meant it. He came back and he liberated them. MacArthur was Sheen's favorite American in history. So interesting how like everything converges in this he's he was a small man, actually. He was like five, five or something like that, five, six. Anyway, he's a powerhouse, so we better get to know him because we don't have much time. And imagine somebody who's done all the heavy lifting for us to have to we don't have to figure everything out, like just put him together, and that's how I see what we do here with the movement and with the institute is to do that for people. But have I think he he's the he like you said, he's the icon for tod for today's saints, especially for the American saints of these latter times. Latter times, yeah. I'm not trying to like that's not an implicit plug for Mormonism. No, it's more I gotta be now you have me also like insecure when I say something, latter day wait.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:36

No, but it is it look, it they are scary times, and I do love Fulton Sheen, man. So yeah, um, if you guys can go check out this conference, go check out the website. If you know anybody in the area, pass the word, share the show for uh for Dr. Peter Howard. They're they're doing something important here. So um it was great getting to know you, man. And uh yeah, we'll we'll try to maybe after the conference is over, we'll we'll check back in with you and we'll see how see how it went for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

Yeah, absolutely. I look forward to it. I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:03

Um uh you you can jump off. We have to actually plug our do our ads and stuff before we wrap up. So if you want to just sign up, we we gotta we gotta do some some ad reads before we sign off. So uh thank you very much, Doctor.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:16

All right, thanks you guys. Thank you. God bless.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:18

Take care.

Ads Then Locals Shift Begins

SPEAKER_05 1:02:19

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SPEAKER_04 1:02:43

Did you uh you probably haven't seen it, but uh I got an email the text from the email of Nick Knack.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:51

Okay, so when we were on, yeah, this is actually kind of funny. When we were on locals the other night, I said to Rob, I was like, You think Nick Max knows how much we put into their ads? Because like we really put a lot into their hands, and like we're trying to be original here. So uh Nico actually sent sent Rob an email. You want to read it?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:09

Yeah, he says, uh, you and Ant were asking if we hear the ads in locals. I woke, I catch every show and they're great. Uh he says if we ever did a bigger meetup, they might be able to make something happen in terms of sponsorship. But sorry, they can't do Bobby's bachelor party.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:24

Bobby, we we can't we can't get sponsorship for the bachelor party, bro. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:28

Now he he does he do he does remind us that we have to say warning this product contains nicotine, and nicotine is an addictive chemical. And he's trying to tell Ant that you don't always need to say it isn't a smoking cessation device.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:39

It's a smoking cessation device. Awesome. I don't think he's I don't know. He didn't say you have to say it. So if you want to quit smoking, guys, then all right. I'm not allowed, I don't have to always say it's not a smoking cessation cessation device, but I always have to say Nick Knacks contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive substance, but you guys know that because you all are getting it because of the nicotine in it. So um, all right, so we're going to head over to locals. Um, and um we have uh what do you I have a couple things I want to talk about. I want to talk about these uh let me see, hold on. I sent Rob something. Okay, so all the the whole encyclical series has been making me think about like what if we actually did get a trad pope? And uh I think it would be pretty terrifying to be honest. Like, not that I don't want one, I think that's actually what we do need, but we'll talk about it over there. So we're going over to locals. If you guys are not locals members, you're bums. We'll see you guys next time. Take us out, Rob. You can't say that and then expect me to. You are supposed to have it queued up.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:49

I need I need a what do you want me to have cued up? I don't know. Two and a half feet. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:55

You're supposed to give me like 10 seconds to like regroup and see who the hell texted me while we're running. We were over here. Uh all right. Josh is relentlessly fighting with melody lions. I don't know, we'll talk about that. Josh fighting with melody lions is pretty funny.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:13

Yeah, that's definitely something we can talk about.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:15

Uh and I have to send the address to uh some somebody for work tomorrow. Hang on. How are we doing? You cutting feeds off over here? Yeah, I'm cutting feeds off.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:38

I have to go to the bathroom. I could play. So Taffy sent me a two and a half.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:42

All right, so we got a taffy, we got a taffy e-girl war video that we can play while Rob goes to the P. So let's let's do that.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:49

Okay, let me get it ready. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna upload it. I'm just gonna share it from Telegram here. There we go. Yes, that one.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:03

And then after after after the video, I will uh tell you guys a little backstory from the interview we just did. Got that Robin. Oh, cool. You guys get to see my face away.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:24

Oh my gosh, I love your skirt. Where did you get it? Oh, it was my mother's. My mother's. Oh, adorable. I love it. Thanks. That was the ugliest freaking skirt I've ever seen. Oh my gosh, I love your dress. Bring in the prisoner. I'm sending you to the dungeon.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:26

I didn't even see this one.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:28

So she thinks that pathetic little turkey of hers is funny? We'll see who's laughing next. Ryan! Yes, mistress. I told you not to call me that. I'm sorry, my queen. Gather the girls.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:42

That was a pretty good little joke.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:48

What do you think? Will Father Mike be there? How dare you approach me when I'm with my sister?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:04

That was the girl who had the tweet about some guy approaching her after mass.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:09

Oh no!

SPEAKER_04 1:08:10

It's amazing! Like there's some deep cuts in this thing. Yo, Taffy, you're sick. Can you imagine the what goes on in his head?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:22

After this, I have to show you guys something personal about Taffy. Like Taffy sent me. Alright, so play it out and I'll and I'll give you guys I'll give you guys some behind-the-scenes lore about Taffy.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:33

Just not his name and address.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:34

No, I don't know. Nothing like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:41

Um, Queen Brie is calling on you.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:53

What do you think happened to him? By the looks of it, nothing good. Did you check out the house? Empty. Whoever lived there is long gone. Well, let's collect our reward. Didn't see any of this.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:05

No, I didn't see this one yet.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:29

Wait.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:30

I guess we work for Trad Inc after all.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:32

We work for Trad Inc. We only exist because of Taylor Marshall. Okay, I get the inside joke.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:38

Why why have our clothes changed four times?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:41

I don't know. This is great. Oh my gosh. Bravo, Taffy. Bravo. Taffy, that is your best work ever. That is funny, dude.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:05

Very funny. All right, hold on. I gotta show you guys something from Taffy. Taffy sent me something. Hang on. So this is uh this is the lore behind the PFP. So Taffy is a photographer. Taffy, are you alright with me telling this? Is he in there? I don't I don't know, but this is the photo you sent me. Taffy is uh like he's like a wildlife photographer, like he should work as a National Geographic, but this is the oh man, that's stupid light. So this is the lore behind the PFP. That's a real photo of a turkey heat. Like that's Taffy's PFP lore right there.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:49

Wait, that's what he sent you. Yeah, I told him to send you the one of the deer sticking its tongue out.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:55

I'm glad he sent this one. This is pretty cool. Um, but yeah, yeah, Taffy man. That's very funny.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:03

Taffy, I am still working with the whatever company YouTube uses for the awards to get our code to work so I can send you a play button.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because uh what's his name? Uh Cameron Cameron Riker got his got his plaque before Taffy got one. He was talking about um so uh yeah, I uh I I tweeted out before that uh um okay, so what what inspired this was um Stephen Cox.

Vatican II Religious Freedom And “Rights”

SPEAKER_05 1:11:43

Hang on. Um okay, a few things. So Cox tweeted out something about Dignitatis Humane. Yeah. Okay, so all right, he started off and he said, uh Dick Dignitatis Humane clearly endorses Webster's support for the mosque. So he's talking about that bishop who tweeted out or wrote that statement about the building of the mosque. And he tweeted out from Dignitatis Humane, uh, religious communities also have the right not to be hindered in erecting buildings for religious purposes. The social nature of man and the very nature of religion afford the foundation of the right of men to freely hold meetings and to establish educational, cultural, charitable, and social organizations under the impulse of their own religious sense. Like Cox is interpreting that as this document endorsing freedom of like all religions to uh and they have this, and it's like the idea of rights, Rob. How far back does the idea of rights from the church go back? Is it is is it is it are they of natural?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:06

Is it like well the they really have their root in in Aristotle, right? And and Aquinas is really the one who synthesizes you know Catholicism with Aristotelian philosophy, so yeah. I I don't uh because I think rights are bullshit.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:25

Like no, they're they're absolutely a Catholic concept. I get it.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:29

But not in the way not in the way people use the word, though.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:32

Well that but that's what I mean, right? So it's like uh well, like you don't actually have rights unless you have an enforcement arm.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:39

No, that's not true. Rights are rights are freedoms given by God in for you to be able to perform a duty. Okay, rights and duties are in you know are intrinsically tied. You have a right to the freedom of the true of true religion because you have a duty to God to practice the true religion.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:01

Okay, you have a right to it, but just because you have a right to it, like without an enforcement arm. All right, so I'm thinking more in terms of the way the enlightenment uses rights, okay. So, like the modern concept of rights, like like you think you have a fourth amendment right, you think you have a fifth amendment, like you don't really have shit. You have whatever the government decides, like you you watch any of those cops, those body cam videos of cops doing something they shouldn't do, and it's like that guy's that cop is violating his fourth amendment right, and it's like, yeah, because the cops are the ones with the guns. Like, if you don't, it's more of like a philosophical idea than it is actually given in all right. So here's here's the kind of the point I'm making with it, though. Like, because I I ref I gotta kind of remember my thoughts on this. Um so the the point to what he was saying with dignitatis humani, so it's like the social nature of man and the very nature of religion afford the foundation of the right of men to freely hold meetings and to establish education, educational, cultural, charitable, and social social, social organizations, I'm sorry, guys, under the impulse of their own religious sense. And I said uh the statement should be read as a defense of Catholic religious communities' right to exist in countries hostile towards Catholicism. There's similar statements in Rare of Navarum. So when we went through Rareum Navarum, private societies, then, although they exist within the body politic, are severally part of the Commonwealth, cannot nevertheless be absolutely and as such prohibited by the public authority. For to enter into a society of this kind is a natural right of man, and the state has for its office to protect natural light rights, not to destroy them. Rarum Navaram is talking about trade unions. I understand, but the but the the idea, the the concept, what what the men in during during the council, I'm just saying I understand how Lefebvre signed the document because you if you read that and you go back to what is going on, even when Leo is writing his encyclical, you have Catholicism just gets legalized again in England, right? So you have you're dealing with you the church is like you have a right to worship the tr worship God through the true religion, and England's going, no, you don't, not here because they have the enforcement arm. We're in a situation now where the church has absolutely no temporal power to enforce anything. So what they're doing in the council is kind of just saying to the nations who are hostile towards Catholicism, like, look, maybe we can make everyone like look like you the there is hostility building towards Catholicism everywhere, but if we push religious freedom, maybe we can still exist in these places, right? Like, I know it's wrong, and and the thing is the language does warp the Catholic mind. Like, I understand the principle in Dignitis Humani, the way it's been twisted by this guy, uh, whatever this bishop's name is. Like it, I understand that the language of that document has been twisted, but I still understand why they wrote it when they're dealing with a post-war world.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:32

Yeah, it's just like what we talked about. Um, what was what was the encyclical before rare um some uh I do forget which one it was immortality day, right? Because immort immortality lays out the rights and duties of of states, right? And it it it's the thesis hypothesis argument, um, and and it is directly linked to to dig dignitatus humanis, whereas you know they're they're saying the thesis, the ideal, is what immortality lays out, whereas those who think dig dignitatus humanis can be read in light of tradition say that it's laying out the uh hypothesis, it's it's a compromise, is what it is.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:24

I mean it's a right compromise of the modern world in order, yeah, in order for us to exist, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:30

And my my point But it can easily be read as being a direct contradiction of Immortalide.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:37

Yes, you know, I and my thing. Which is how which is how both like ultra trads and modernists read it as a direct contradiction to it, right? Now, all I'm saying, I'm not saying it's current, like I know all the problems with it. I hate that I'm defending this stupid thing. Like, I don't want to defend the council, I don't want to defend any of it. But my point is the popes are in a position where they are not just saying words and speaking to the Catholic faithful, they are saying words that have a direct consequence on the Catholic faithful to parties who are hostile towards the Catholic faithful. Okay, so the the tweet I actually wanted to discuss was the one that because it it it kind of and and look, this isn't something I've like worked out yet. I'm just kind of like thinking through it, is that most trads who rail against the Pope would be the first to deny being Catholic during the persecution that would come if they got the Pope they wanted. People really need to think about what would happen if we had a pope who condemned all false religions, who called Protestants heretics and said boldly that they're all going to hell. Not even the 19th century popes spoke like that. Like once you get to the 19th century, the popes tone their language down. It's not that they're changing the principle, it's not that they're it's not that they're denying there's no salvation out the outside of the church, they're toning their language down because they want you to be able to be Catholic in England. Well, I don't know about England, but you just had the hundred years' war, you just had like you had all this like hundred years' war was six hundred years before that. Not the hundred years war, the Protestant I hate when I do that. Protestant Catholic wars uh in in Europe have just taken place, and that was still two three hundred years ago, but yeah. Uh, what was the most recent persecution of Catholics in England? Like where they're going into priests, like the people have the popes were not thinking about England, they just weren't.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:45

They were thinking about France and Italy and France.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:47

All right, but whatever. I'm just saying I'm using England as an example of like these recent persecutions that they had that Catholics were enduring.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:55

Like if the most recent would have been the French Revolution and then the the revolutions of 1848 and things like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:02

Okay, so what what the position the popes are in at this point are the words they say will have direct consequences on the faithful, right? It was like why it's why Pius XII is worried about like coming out with a harsh condemnation of Hitler. Like if he does that, he has to slip it through and give it to the priests secretively and they read it from the pulpit. Like, but if he just comes out and really does it, like you're talking about condemning National Socialism to all the Catholics living in Germany, like the Catholics in Germany are going to be thrown in these internment camps. So I think like even the modern popes, as I'm not like defending the nonsense, I'm just saying if we got that traditional pope, like the consequences of that would be dire, in my opinion. Yeah, I agree with that.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:01

I think the consequences would be dire for all of us, like it would just be like what the the Muhammadans did when Benedict gave his Regensburg address, right? Yeah, like that there was nothing you know all that crazy in there.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:16

But but for for Americans, I think it would be a lot of Protestant Catholic hostility, but in Europe I think it would be Muslim hostility, yeah. You know, like if the Pope's come out saying the Muhammadans are infidels, and like like that would cause a freaking holy war in Europe, like it would stoke uh maybe not quite, but it would stoke something, it would stoke more violence. But uh it's it's just the idea that everybody thinks like, oh, we just need a super trad pope to get in there. And I don't know if it's that simple. I think that the popes have to be very measured in the things they say, and in some ways, France's making all those concessions to the gay crap while we were while while we were looking at it in horror may have bought us some time, just in the eyes of just like the the secular media and everything coming down on Catholics as because what they're trying to do is make evil good and good evil. And like if if if if the Catholic bishops had a spine and started speaking with clarity, it would be good because the Catholic faithful would understand the truth properly, but it would definitely cause like a lot of a lot of problems for Catholics. Like we would we would then have to which I think is what we all always thought would happen. I think that's like what we all we all thought we were going to get persecuted by the world because the church was gonna stand firmly on the truth. Like this whole this whole like situation of the church like coming down on faithful Catholics is something none of us foresaw.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:00

It's it's one of those things it's like if we're gonna be persecuted and have to fight and die for the church. I wanted that to happen when I was like young and in my 20s. I don't want that to happen when I'm old and in my 60s, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 1:24:14

Like, I also like don't want it happening now. Like, I don't I don't I don't know. Like, I want nothing is stopping any of us from becoming saints right now, is all I'm saying. Like, nothing, like the hierarchy are not stopping any of us from becoming saints. So, like railing against this, like the the hierarchy and railing against the pope, like like I understand the the the the need for us to clarify error and to you know like when when these squishy statements come out to clarify them, but I I don't think anything that's going on with the hierarchy is preventing us from becoming saints. Because your view of whether Leo's the Pope or not is not going to determine whether you like achieve the beatific vision, it's just not. Well, yes, like the way you live is going to help you achieve the the beatific vision.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:12

I mean it talking to like the people in our audience, yeah, you're absolutely right. But talking to uh the nominally cat, you know, the nominal Catholics in my family, like the I would say the hierarchy the hierarchy is a hindrance, the lack of teaching in the church and all the things definitely are preventing them from at least at least be giving at least being given the real teaching of the church that they that they had then either have to accept or decline, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:25:45

Yeah, it's such a it's such a like uh it's like if the church doesn't say the truth, who's going to? Like it's especially on the like this the the sexual questions facing our culture. Like if the church doesn't stand on solid ground and and say the truth, if they're even giving this idea or this impression that this stuff is acceptable, it's horrible. I like I I I know that I'm just for like Rob said, for the people in our audience, though, like Yeah, you're an anti-pope does not affect your salvation, like it's it's just nothing is preventing us from becoming saints in the material sense. Like, I understand that you're 100% right, like it may be preventing people from converting and things like that. But for you and I, and all the people listening, like go be a saint, like go go live a holy life because when you reach Saint Peter, he's not going to say, What did you think? What was your opinion on Pope Leo?

What A “Trad Pope” Could Trigger

SPEAKER_04 1:26:46

He's just so uh this means you're gonna go counter protest uh Jim Martin's uh LGBT pilgrimage in New York City, right? I'm considering with cameras, we could organize, we could probably organize a decent number of people. What are the dates? That's a good question. I I'd have to look at my tweet. Hold on.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:09

It's it's it's look, I hope I'm not being misconstrued in what I'm saying here.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:14

Like I'm oh, people absolutely will.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:16

I know, but I'm not I'm not defending dignitatis humani. I'm trying to extend I'm trying to extend some kind of like charity towards these men as they're writing this stuff. Like, because yes, it can be seen as a direct contradiction to previous statements, or it can be seen as holy crap, the world is so hostile towards us, we need to make another compromise in order for Catholics to be able to exist in the world that we're we're being faced with.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:47

I think you can I think you can definitely can you make that argument about the the the documents of Vatican II? Probably. I think you could probably make that argument.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:00

all i i i don't think you can make that argument anymore you know what i mean like yeah yeah just because of how it played out and what they did with it like you can't you can't you can't say that about fiducious applicants right there's no no no no way i'm talking about the council because i i yeah i agree like i do still think there is a way to not even so much council about the men who who wrote it about the thousands of bishops who signed it yeah i i still think there's a way to interpret the council in light of tradition like it has to be otherwise the council's invalid and like oh no no no no no no that's no that's bullshit or things have to be corrected i guess within a i don't know whatever i'm not a theologian or anything but i i still think the council can be can be interpreted in light of tradition i don't think it is anywhere yeah i don't i just i don't think it is in any place anywhere and i think that's like the main gripe of the society i'm just saying i understand why lefebv signed it and i'm also saying persecution is going to come and i'm not looking forward to that like i don't want that to come so i'm not really worried about oh not that i'm not worried i'm not really concerned with like what some idiot bishop thinks about the muslims i'm more concerned with how am i getting me and my family to like heaven like that's like what am i doing to to to like actually live a holy life because this is like i think that i think that's the only people who are going to make it through the crap that's coming are going to be those who actually who not just who because it goes back to that like what you believe thing and it's you could believe all the correct stuff in your head but if you're not living it out like Catholicism is not just an assent to a set of propositions it's has this stuff transformed me and am I living my life differently than the heathen yeah you you need hope and charity along with faith yeah you need all three yeah and the greatest of these is charity right it's not even right charity is charity is literally the love of God in your soul yeah um I don't know you guys you guys know I'll rant in here that this is not stuff I would say on YouTube because I'm kind of like working these thoughts out and I'm just like like even when I was responding to Steven I wasn't trying to be contrarian to him I wasn't trying I'm I was literally trying to like work out yeah I know I was literally trying to work these thoughts out I I said to American reform like even a guy like American Reform who I really like like most of these guys are afraid to even put their real name and face up with the things that they're saying so like how do you and not that there's really anything wrong with that but no I am I'm not uh yeah I I think anonymity is fine um I'm just saying like if real persecution comes because we get what we want and that's that is going to be a consequence of if we get what we want and it actually probably is exactly what we need in order for the resurrection of the church right like you you you cannot you you cannot avoid persecution and a chastisement in order to correct what we all are upset about like it's going to be a very severe chastisement in order for the errors that we're all angry about to be corrected and i'm not like I'm not so sh like we all think we're going to endure martyrdom it's like it's one thing to endure martyrdom when you got kids it's like yeah I'll die for the faith but I don't want my kids dying for I don't want my kids being in that position I don't want I don't want somebody doing something to my kids to get me because if I see something happening to my kids I don't know if I have the will to watch something happening to my kids I just don't know I pray I do but we all think we're going to be these heroic martyrs when the time comes Bobby coffin follower confirmed I like how he gives you a dollar just to ease it up I'm not but the thing is like when you're talking about these controversial issues especially if you're out there ranting about the Jews and stuff I do think there's an element where you should put your like you should be willing to say these things publicly especially if you are this passionate about it and you think this issue is this important I mean I anything I say online I say with my face and name because I'm willing to deal with the consequences of it. I understand like you gotta be careful because people will come for your job and how the hell you know how do you support your family and stuff and these things are important to talk about I don't know I just think that all of us think we're going to be braver than we will be when the time comes because without supernatural grace we're gonna be in trouble um did I hear our guest right right before the end did he say Douglas MacArthur was Fulton Sheen's favorite American was he? I don't know honestly weren't listening look I get there's a million ways I could have gone with that interview there's a million ways I could have gone with it he's trying to make it a a uh a friendly interview and uh help him promote his thing you know everybody in the comments was like we have to talk about the JQ like I don't know that guy like I don't know what I don't know where I can go with it. I didn't know I don't know it's and it's hard to interview this is what I kind of meant the other day when I said like when people ask us to interview them and I'm not familiar with their stuff like it's hard to ask good questions to a person where you're not really familiar with their work. I didn't I didn't know like when am I gonna go down the Ticonius road with this guy? I don't know what he thinks I have no idea I know when I like something somebody's doing I can research what they're doing and then I could dig in and ask better questions um I'm not saying it wasn't good I'm saying I I don't you know it's when you're when you're doing an interview where somebody asks you to do it you're kind of when somebody else when a third party yeah a third never mind it's just uh you know it's I don't I it's not easy to do interviews I oh I had a hard time it's not easy keeping my face straight when he said Christine Niles oh man and you don't know like I don't look like I don't know how what's weird is he was we were introduced by like a guy who's like super super trad who is like in in line with like guys like father altman and stuff so I didn't know like I don't know I didn't know no no come on father Altman isn't super super trad Father Altman you know what I mean like that that that way of thinking with the condemned the guy was a uh a uh mark uh marketing manager for EWTN he wasn't that super trad you're always so contrarian you got i mean you understand what I'm saying right like he's he's I met him with that group is my point right like I met him with that group so I'm I don't know if this guy's like that group is interesting because they're like novus ordo sedes like it's a weird group the novus ordo sedes like they're they're at the novus ordo they're celebrating like uh illicit masses with father kalchek in the basement like that's the group like they're celebrating the novus ordo illicit novus orders with father kalchak not even not i not even ad orientum novosordos i don't i i'm just saying like i don't know that they're just an interesting group and i don't know like i know they're angry at what's going on and i think that they're trying to understand it too but so i don't i'm i'm thinking like how like who like how far does this guy go i don't know but this guy seems like he's very much especially because he has a bishop coming to his what about he's like and oh settings patrick coffin follow confirmed um the guy we interviewed just did one for life site news right yeah because it's the same group that um I still didn't see Bobby someone what did he say he said uh novus ordocetes Patrick's Ordo Setes Patrick um yeah it's I I just didn't know like I didn't know I don't know guys to do the best I can do it's not easy being in this seat sometimes you get people think it's easy to do what we do you try and come up with two times a week of something interesting to talk about and then get thrown an interview with somebody you have no idea who they are it's just I don't know I it was not not that it was a bad interview it was better it it actually went better than I thought it was going to I just didn't know what good questions they asked I'll be honest I think that guy has like a wealth of knowledge that we could have dug into I just don't I'm not familiar with a couple one off comments about America that I thought could have led to good conversations and stuff but yeah I'd like it like he seems to have like a really good historical knowledge like I think it we could have had a better conversation with him if I was familiar with his work that's all it's just people posted the con celebration mass with Strickland Altman like it's uh yeah like that's kind of the group right so and look I'm not shut up Jim I'm not um I I wanna I want to be cordial with everybody I want like I really don't like even the set eights like I tease them and stuff but like I like the set eights can you block uh uh uh but what's his name again seeing his comments show up in here Bacante who no uh the one of the other clowns in the in the uh in the locals no no locals on your twitter because he watches you on twitter and then he comments and then shows up in our food yeah yeah I don't I I Tommy I don't mind Tommy sometimes I hate him sometimes I like him I don't know I got a love hate relationship with Tommy but um like even those guys like I don't want those guys to hate me I I I just kind of like poke at their silliness sometimes like it's the set a uh the sede conundrum for them is they cannot find a single one of them who can host a show and get their ideas out there. Like they all they're all autistic and like not normal. So like the closest you get to it is Kevin Davis. Kevin Davis is the normal guy but he was not he's not a sede convert he was raised sede so he's kind of just it's he's like he wars with the other sets as much as anyone else he's he's he yes he fights with them just as much as as as us yeah because he knows they're freaking annoying like but the sede convert is the most annoying thing ever because they're just all they know how to say is the novosotho sect the Vatican II religion it's like dude just they they are they are Catholic dioretes is what they are they all just repeat the same stuff ad nauseous yes exactly and it's like they they can't they can't do a show about anything but the novice or sect or the the Vatican II religion like that's there's no other topic and how many times can you hear that topic so all they really can do is comment on the Catholic commentariat. Like you and I can jump into an encyclical series you and I can jump into the news for the day you and I can talk about anything from a Catholic perspective those guys can only yeah pink speed boats those guys can only comment on the Catholic commentariat or the Vatican II religion the novice it's like you're not doing anything to spread the faith no at all there's no there's no sede content that is spreading the faith or or evangelizing people into Catholicism all they're doing is grabbing people in the novice or pulling them over to their side I mean let's be honest that stupid puppet show is the most creative thing any of them have ever done I think Tommy's actually the most original like Tommy's funny and he like with all the stupid little sayings he has and stuff like he's like let's put it this way I'll read one to you one of those actually today no because uh I asked him uh I asked him if we were friends again um I go I said are we friends again and he uh he said something really funny in response we find it oh come on all right wait it's in this comment hang on let me find it the hell did he go come on here he is all right I got him let's see okay uh I alright so he I said sede's only who's who is the non-sede Catholic commentator you dislike the least he said TLM schism for me personally is TLM Ryan he said you and Taylor Marshall are probably at the top top of the list for everyone else of commentators they dislike the least um I said are we friends yet I kind of miss you bud he said you help me get a kick gambling deal and I'll get Pope Thouke elected and I think we can work something out right and then uh what the hell else did he say like he he just has original stuff that he says that okay but being schizophrenic isn't necessarily original though like he's funny is my point like there's none of them are funny you need to dude at the end of the day what we do is entertainment you can't just have like this wealth of knowledge about the novus order sect and you can't you need to be entertaining you need to make people laugh or at least be engaged in the show like you have to make it a show it can't just be regurgitating the same crap over and over again so in a way you're right like Sadie Bacante like at least he makes an attempt to do something like he's but he's still just commenting on other people's stuff like he's not coming up with something original and going at it he can't have a conversation like this when when I was uh when I was a teenager in high school right playing football we had um a local guy um who would come to every practice and watch and uh the the coaches would would let him kind of uh cheer us on and and motivate us motivate us and he would say the funniest things just off the wall completely crazy no idea where they came from and it would just made us all laugh and he reminds me so much of Tommy now the guy has Down syndromes but I mean no dude Tommy Tommy is definitely autistic I'm not gonna lie but at least he's funny like his whole thing about getting the getting the getting the um uh he's trying to organize a council what is it like a like a secretive council imperfect council an imperfect council but like he's just funny like I don't know I hate that I think he's funny because he's such a dick sometimes but like I want to I want to be friends with him because he makes me laugh I don't know I uh I did did you have um Joshua Charles telling Melody Lions to calm down on your bingo card for this year because I didn't dude he couldn't wait to text me this threads he texted me every single tweet between them and then he put us in a group chat and he started texting them to us right I I I I I said you said that okay okay um yeah Josh all right so all right so Josh says one of the easiest ways for a man to see if a woman is worth pursuing ask her to dress modestly in public since most don't these days if she says no she rejects the authority of Christ and would thus reject your authority as a husband move on now I personally think that's a great pickup line guys like you you guys go to the bar and just walk up to a scantily clad woman and go, well you cover up what are you doing like something like that just say I want you to try to look like a skank you got you or just say look I want to take you on a date but you gotta you gotta wear something more modest you can't come out looking like this when you when I take you out like that actually could be a good pickup line if you it could be you could be a good pickup line you have to neg girls like you have to you have to come in and tell them look I'd love pretty I'd love to take you out but you're not gonna pass any dress code for any of the classy places I go to there you go that's a good line like perfect line look you're definitely pretty enough for me to take you out for not wearing something like this you got to cover up honey like I'm sorry you gotta cover up like that's a good pickup line Melody Lyons lost her mind at Josh all she knows how to do is lose her mind.

Catholic Twitter Fights And Modesty Debate

SPEAKER_05 1:46:45

I think it's hilarious I I love Melody crash out it's one of my favorite pastimes now she just crashes out like with so ladies do not date a man who tests your submissiveness and who thinks his opinions about your wardrobe carry the authority of Christ this is some creepy controlling BS it's like she later on said yes it's creepy and controlling for a man to test for submissiveness a bizarre and concerning approach to encounter another soul it is not the teaching of the church that men especially not a husband or father should be fixated on managing women's appearances pretty sure Paul mentions a lot about specifically about managing women's like not even wearing makeup but she but she's her issue is just a man telling her anything yeah and it's like dude there are times where I will wear something and my wife will go you shouldn't wear that is that my wife trying to control me no she like knows I don't look good in something she's telling me yeah she's trying to help me if I tell my wife don't wear that it's not me trying to control it's like I know what looks good and what doesn't on you who are you true who are you wearing it for you wearing it for me right like what what Melody doesn't get even Miley Cyrus had that interview a couple weeks ago did you see the clip going around no Miley Cyrus was giving an interview and she's like um I uh none of my relationships worked because every time I would do a photo shoot the man I was with would be upset because I was giving something of myself that was meant to be private and for him so like she would go and do these photo shoots naked on the cover of a magazine or half naked on the cover of a magazine or go out looking like a flozy or doing a performance looking like a floozy and the man she was with would say that's something private for me. Like why are you offering that to the world so Josh is not wrong no he's not wrong like that there's there's part of every man who should want his wife to not dress like a flozy like I'm sorry it's just like reality like there's things that are meant for just the husband and wife and to for a woman to react crazily because no man's gonna tell me what to do like that is psychotic feminist behavior like psychotic feminist behavior. Yeah and Melody Lyons interestingly enough like I don't know this for a fact I never saw anything I remember years ago her getting into it with a group of people who went and searched her Instagram and found photos that were not the best yeah and it's I remember that if your husband had told you not to dress like that and put the photos up this issue wouldn't have come up but you don't want no man telling you what to do not that I think her husband would ever tell her anything because he's probably terrified of her I it's so hard to like read the chat and keep up with and stay focused. Um yeah, it's like I don't know, man. Like Melody Lions, what a f uh she does this daily, by the way. If you go to her, if you go to her page, her entire page is just one thing after. And this one too, her marriage picture. 30 years of marriage. Thanks be to God. Jesus, we are yours. Hold us in your gaze. Like, all right, anyway, she says, um, I've been married 30 years and it has been uh it has been a true romance. We fell in love. Does anyone know what what that's like anymore? Or is it all just spreadsheets, spreadsheeted to death? He's a strong leader and does not have to control, does not have to control because I would follow him to the moon and back. Who are you trying to convince? Who are you trying to convince that you have this whirlwind romance? Nobody believes it's possible with a woman like you. Like it's just not. Your husband is just walking on eggshells hoping he doesn't set Melody off. Because there's no way you behave like that in public and don't behave like that in private.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:14

Can you imagine the Karen she is at a restaurant when something like something comes out slightly off?

SPEAKER_05 1:51:20

Dude, the thing is, what she's doing online is embarrassing her husband, whether her husband knows it or not. Like her husband doesn't necessarily have to feel embarrassed, she's embarrassing her husband because I'm embarrassed for him. Remember when her son Peter had to get into an argument with you to defend like her son has to jump in and defend her because she's making a fool of herself online. Like, honey, go live a life in private. You are embarrassing your husband. It's the same. I look, I view Bree Soul's dad's behaviors the same way. Like her husband may be totally fine with her doing this. She's embarrassing you, dude. She's an obnoxious woman, and all obnoxious women are annoying. There's no exceptions. If you're an obnoxious woman, you're annoying, especially when you're telling people what they should do.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:04

It is the definition of obnoxious. So, yes, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:08

Telling everybody what they have to do. I mean, you have to do that, you're eating meat, and you're like, just shut up. Like, just shut up. Stop getting into everybody else's business. Mind your own business. I don't know why it's so different from for me when men do it. Like, I don't mind when men butt into each other's business. It's men's job. We wear the pants, we have things to say. That's Francis quote. I love that Francis quote. We're men, we have we wear pants, we have things to say. You women, you got nothing of nothing of value to add to the conversation. Oh, yeah, Jim Pine. Bree took my bait last Friday, like a month. Jim Jim posted um he like they in in our group chat, they constantly because I have uh cursed food crimes in my uh in my group chat.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:58

You know, it's like tuna on hot dogs and stuff. Yeah, so he's always posting food picks, and Jim posted a pick of like a burger or something. And I go, it was Thursday. He's like, Yeah, I just had this for lunch. I go, tweet out that you had it on Friday just to trigger Brie and like clockwork, Brie freaking. It's like I want everybody to trigger Brie now. Like, post meat picks on Friday. Post your Thursday night meat pick on Friday to trigger Brie because it's funny to watch her crash out now.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:28

I should start smoking a 14-pound brisket tomorrow. Have it Saturday, but make it look like it will actually be ready on Saturday, but she won't know that.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:39

Yeah, have it on Saturday. Um, what it what was funny was the um what's her name? Uh like the the the chick that started the whole thing, the Brajuto chick.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:58

Honey Badger.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:00

Honey Badger. She was not a fan of Taffy's video. And and there is something to breatheing a sport, and that's what I was actually saying that episode when I was ripping on her. Like, breathe tough. She was literally a porn star. Men were like, I mean, the things that that woman's heard, I don't think me telling her to shut up is gonna upset her that much. She will survive. So Taffy making a video, she's gonna laugh about it. She's fine with it, right? Honey banger, no sense of humor on that one. And the only thing more worse more annoying than an obnoxious woman is a woman with no sense of humor. Yeah, uh, yeah, I can say I respect. Post your meat picks. Oh my god. Post your meat pick Friday. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, I and I'll say that too. Like, I I don't even dislike Brie. Like, I really don't. I don't I don't like dislike her. I just think she's annoying sometimes. Like, but I'm sure she's a lovely woman in real life. I'm just her online persona, her her carefully curated profilicity sucks. Okay, Kale. She needs to stop. Well, I'm doing a throwback reference to Kale. I know.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:16

Um, it's Honey Badger's single. If so, there's a reason.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:22

Don't tell Taffy. Taffy will have another one that he's chasing. Taffy Taffy chasing freaking World Beauty is one of my favorite bits.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:31

Yeah. Chasing the Jewish uh uh billionaire heiress or whatever, that's hilarious. Holy crap, look who showed up.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:41

Hot dogs, ocean showed up.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:44

Hey, Ocean.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:47

You show up three minutes before the end of the show, Ocean. Gotta be kidding me. Unbelievable. God ruined the show tonight.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:55

Well, you give the kid a give the kid a break.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:59

No, he ruined the show tonight. He's getting yelled at next episode again.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:05

Yeah, I can't believe it.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:08

Wait, what'd you say?

SPEAKER_04 1:56:09

Someone says I think Honey Badger drinks. I think you might be right.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:18

Um what was I just gonna say?

SPEAKER_07 1:56:21

Uh something about Taffy, I think.

unknown 1:56:24

I forgot.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:25

Oh, uh Warren Beauty has ignored him for a year. Yeah, she she I she she doesn't engage at all with him. How and that's crazy to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:34

It just makes him want her more.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:36

Yeah, she's playing hard to get, Taff. 100% Taff. She's playing hard to get, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:43

You're a lawyer. If you end up with a restraining order, you'll know how to get rid of it.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:51

No, ocean's in trouble again. You can't show up this late. Um, yes, Mimi, I know it was you. I'm sorry. Um, all right.

Upcoming Shows Spanish Civil War Video

SPEAKER_05 1:57:02

We're coming to the end of this one. I have a week off of broadcasting. I'm so looking forward to it. So, what are your plans while I'm away?

SPEAKER_04 1:57:11

So Tuesday, uh Adrian's gonna help me host, and we're gonna have Jason Craig on. Jason Craig has found it uh founded Fraternis, which is like uh, I guess like a Catholic Boy Scout thing. Okay. So we're gonna we're it's gonna be kind of like Guns and Rosary, but without the guns. So we're gonna talk about raise raising young men, creating Catholic culture, things like that. And then Thursday, I think this weekend I'm going to record a video about the Spanish Civil War. Um, I have a script written that should take about 30 at least 30 minutes for me to read, but I'm gonna try to have a slideshow of like images and stuff to put up as I read it.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:01

Dude, this is like professional content you're gonna put out on our show.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:06

That video will probably do a million. That would be our first video to hit a million views, probably. Our our second biggest, our second highest view video is that two minutes short, I did about the Spanish Civil War.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:19

Rob, I'm not even kidding. If you actually do the slides, slides and write the script like that, that video will be the first video that is.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:27

Especially if I keep it to about 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:30

30 minutes to a 30-minute professional yeah, dude. That could change the like yeah, in a bad way.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:46

You know, yeah. So what I what I what I what I'm doing is I'm basically gonna be paraphrasing the last crusade by Warren Carroll, right? So it's I I'm putting Franco in the thumbnail, and of course it Franco will be in there, but it's it's gonna be more about how the Spanish Civil War really truly was a Catholic crusade against communism, and it's not you know, we're taught that it's fascism versus democracy, and it's not that at like nothing.

SPEAKER_05 1:59:14

Oh, I have such high hopes for this video. I think this is gonna kill.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:18

No, no, no, no. This was supposed to be just a fill-in where we don't care if it fails.

SPEAKER_05 1:59:22

Rob, I honestly that's the kind of content that does that's the content that does well, unfortunately. That's the content a pre-recorded script with images and stuff. I mean, that's like that's how what's his name? Freaking um the psycho protestant kid. The uh what the hell is his name? Uh Reconquista Kid. What's his name? Yeah, yeah, I know who you're talking about. Redeem Zoomer. Is that his name? Yeah, Redeem Zoomer.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:59:54

He um that's how his channel took off, just by doing like understanding Catholic uh Christian history and like you know, just doing a written script and images. Like that's yeah, Redeem Zoomer.

SPEAKER_07 2:00:09

Christian Wagner. I said retarded product.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:15

So yeah, it's gonna be recorded, so it won't be a live stream for you guys to interact with, but maybe maybe you watch the video and then we do uh a live stream talking about it afterwards or something. So people maybe that can be a locals only thing.

SPEAKER_05 2:00:28

Yeah, because I uh I don't know anything about the Spanish Civil War. I really don't, so that'll be uh good listening for me on my way home.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:39

Have Ken no, I'm not gonna have Kennedy narrate it. No, Rob's going to narrate it. I know he's got a better voice than me, but come on.

SPEAKER_05 2:00:50

Um you could do a premiere and just interact with the chat.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:54

Yeah, well, yeah, but unfortunately the best time for our audience to upload a video is at like 9 a.m. And I can't the I can't interact with it at work.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:09

Um okay, all right. Well let's see how that goes. We'll see. Yeah, let's see how that goes. Maybe maybe that could do that could be a once-a-month thing, and we let that play at like 7 p.m. 7 30 p.m. And then me and you just do a local show after it premieres.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:25

We could even we could change, we could almost change the way we do the encyclical series. We could do the history portion as a separate pre-recorded, more professional video that we air that we upload, and then later that night we do a live show to actually talk about the contents of the encyclical and and things like that.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:49

Yeah, let's see, let's see how this goes. This could be huge. Um, yeah, let's just see how it goes. All right, I am off to Block Island. I'm going to Rhode Island. Kale could have popped over and came and hung out with me, and he's going to Oxford. Really annoyed about that. Could have seen Kale in real life. I'm gonna set something up and pick him up on. I'm gonna pick him up in Connecticut one day.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:13

Have you never met Kale in real life? No, but he's close to within like a hundred miles of each other, don't you?

SPEAKER_05 2:02:19

He's well, he's in Rhode Island, he's about an hour and a half from um he's about an hour and a half drive from uh Bridgeport, which I can take my boat to Bridgeport, pick him up, and hang with him for the day. Okay, Rhode Island's a tricky one to get to, like it's not it's like a five-hour drive, but it's a right 40 40-minute boat ride. If he drives an hour and a half, I could pick him up on the boat 40 minutes. So it's like it's kind of gotta be a boat day if we want to do it in one day. Otherwise, I gotta go and stay with him. And but if I wanted to just like take him on the north shore of Long Island, if he drives an hour and a half, I could go scoop him up. Abduct kale, it will do numbers. All right, guys. I will see you guys. I will see you guys in like 12 days or something, man. You guys are gonna miss me when I'm gone. I always say that, right? You guys can miss me when I'm gone. You guys can miss me when I'm gone.

Vacation Plans Boats And Wrap

SPEAKER_05 2:03:16

Um, supposedly my boat's gonna be ready tomorrow to get picked up. I still don't know how much it is, though. I'll let I'll I will update you guys on how much it cost the boat for the boat to get fixed.

SPEAKER_04 2:03:28

Do an over-under.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:30

Um over-under's 1500. Over. You think it's gonna be over?

SPEAKER_04 2:03:38

I take over on that all day. You can't hardly get work done on anything for less than 1500.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:44

Dude, I'm just praying it's under 1500. That's literally my over-under. I'm like, if it's under 1500, I won't complain.

SPEAKER_04 2:03:53

Well, we'll we'll know very easily how much it is then if we see you complain.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:58

Dude, if it if Brock is right and it hits 10 grand, I'm not picking the boat up. They can keep it.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:03

Like or pick the boat car accident.

SPEAKER_05 2:04:08

Yeah, I'll pick it up and I'll crash on the way home. Oh man. Holy cow, please, God.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:16

Nothing $7.99 locals upcharge coming.

SPEAKER_05 2:04:20

Having a boat is stressful, it definitely is, but it's also like you couldn't put a price tag on the memories I've made on that thing with my family. My my my family and friends. It's just you couldn't put a price tag on it, but it is stressful 100%. All right, kids. We will, I will see you guys in like a week and a half. Rob, good luck with everything while I'm gone holding the fort down. And you gotta, are you gonna hit the post if I say? See you guys next time.