Catholics Lose Their Minds Over the SSPX Consecrations

The SSPX consecrations story isn’t just about bishops and Rome. It’s a stress test for the whole traditional Catholic world, and the reaction tells you more than the headline ever could. We talk through why people who never attend an SSPX chapel can seem the most obsessed, why sedevacantists and anti-SSPX critics both use the moment to drive wedges, and why calling everyone a traitor or a grifter is a lazy substitute for thinking.

We also get concrete about the substance beneath the drama. We read through a blunt list of modern errors that traditional Catholics keep naming, from relativism and situational ethics to false ecumenism, synodality, and a liturgical focus that feels more human-centered than God-centered. Then we ask the uncomfortable question: how do you reconcile claims that “it’s all in Vatican II” with the day-to-day Vatican posture on interreligious dialogue and “fraternity”? If you care about the Latin Mass, the FSSP, diocesan TLMs, or the SSPX, these tensions shape your lived Catholic experience.

The second half turns toward mindset and spiritual survival. We push back on the idea that it’s a Catholic duty to “cope” if that means pretending all is well, but we also warn against scandal addiction and doomscrolling. We close with a surprising historical lens: the real clash between Lefebvre and Paul VI, and why the Church can look like it’s in its passion without having failed. Subscribe, share this with a friend who’s stuck in trad infighting, and leave a review so more Catholics can find the conversation.

Transcript

Cold Open And Italy Jokes

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Give me the money.

SPEAKER_04 0:31

Wait, no, I'm just a customer.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Wow, this Italy trip is gonna be great. I cannot believe we get to sit together for the whole flight, too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

That was a surprise ending. I didn't see that one.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

After he messaged you the one you approved, he's he sent that one to me. He's like, here's a little surprise that Anthony wants.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

He put Bree sold that, dude. Ocean, ocean holding up the shop. What he what he said, like, oh I'm like, bro, did you mean to put ocean in there? Oh, ocean holding up the store.

SPEAKER_04 1:25

Oh, that's too funny. So the the the the the lore behind that one is uh the original had like a long like waking up in heaven thing, and I was like, it's it's too long, we gotta cut it down a little bit. So, but I didn't he added the whole Bree Soles dad one to Italy with me. She's not coming to Italy, by the way. Um man, it's uh I've had a rough week. I've I'm like fried beyond since the weekend. Like since the weekend, I had I just had a crazy weekend with family. I had like my niece's sweet 16 on a Friday, then on Saturday we had my sister's birthday, and then Sunday we have Father's Day, and uh I just never like caught up. Usually, like Monday is a rough day for me, and then Tuesday

Burnout Week And Family Chaos

SPEAKER_04 2:10

I feel better, which was the case. I can't we did the show Tuesday, I felt okay, and then I got we went to bed late because we stayed on late that night, and I just haven't felt right since.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

So I spent 12 hours this weekend standing outside of bounce houses. Where? What houses? Bounce houses. Oh, bounce houses, why because it was like our town's annual you know festival celebration thing. Uh-huh. So they'd have bounce houses and food trucks and music and oh boy. Spent 150 bucks on bounce houses.

SPEAKER_04 2:43

This stuff is so crazy. Yeah, dude. I actually uh all right. So I guess we'll get in we'll get into the show stuff, but we'll talk about personal stuff on locals. I got a couple of interesting family stories we can do, but I have I just got a text from Hope.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

They accomplished an end tower over on locals.

SPEAKER_04 2:59

Oh my gosh, already there's that many people in the locals chat already. I'm not even looking at it yet. Um, so uh we what I've we weren't sure what we were gonna talk about tonight, but Rob and I will give our opinions on the SSPS because we've kind of like stayed out of uh the conversation for a while. So Rob and I will give our take on it. Um but more than that, uh I'm looking at like the fallout and the way people are reacting to it. And are definitely gonna be normal about it 100%. Well, one thing I asked the other day was I said, What like why is it that people who don't attend the SSPX, like, why are they so obsessed with it? Like it's it's such a weird thing. Like, if you if you go to a novice order, like why do you care what the society does? Like, people, yeah, like and these are like typically good, it's it's really strange. I don't know who hates the society more would be like um guys like Mike Lewis or Cedivacontis. Like Cedivacontists hate the SSPX.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Certivicantists hate life, but so does Mike Lewis, I suppose.

SPEAKER_04 4:13

So I'm not sure they but they hate they hate the society because the society gives recognition to the Pope, right? Where they're they're like even they're like, well, if he was really the Pope, you would, you know, you you'd obey him and all this stuff. So it's like they they can't stand the society, even when the society does something like this and says, We're not going to listen and we're gonna do our consecrations anyway, you know? Yeah, so it's kind of a strange dynamic to watch where you would think the sedes would be like I don't, I don't know, it's just a it's a weird thing. But before we get into all that, I have a knickknack success story tonight. Fed Calderon, our resident property. Well no, well, is he converting because of knickknacks? I think so. I mean, I can't prove it, but I'm pretty sure Fed's Fed's got knick knacks. He's like, he's not like quite there, but he's meeting with a deacon. He's going to the Latin Mass once a month, and now he's going to Argentina to visit the Catholic parish his mother was baptized in. Like this guy's just about to be Catholic. So knick knacks are now making Protestants attend the Latin Mass on a monthly basis, is my thesis that I'm going with.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Also, Knick knacks

Sponsors And Knickknack Conversion Pitch

SPEAKER_02 5:31

will give him free knick knacks if he converts. Now, I can't actually make them do that, and they'll probably hate me for saying that.

SPEAKER_04 5:38

But if you're a Protestant and you show proof that you joined RCIA, we'll get you, we'll get you knick knacks. How about that? Show us, show us like your baptismal certificate or something like that, and we will get you a box of knick-knacks. So go to knicknack.com. Nicknacks is uh contains nicotine, it's a nicotine product, nicotine is an addictive substance, which is why all of you are going to buy it.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

They're not uh smoking cessation aids, especially because you know Anthony started smoking again.

SPEAKER_04 6:10

Yeah, it's not good. I'm I'm stopping again though.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

I I I've had a new uh SSBS.

SPEAKER_04 6:23

All right, so go to knicknack.com, use code AB25% for 25% off your first purchase, use code AB10 for 10% off all subsequent purchases. Also go to blackmonkrosaries.com, black monk rosaries. If you're not praying on a black monk rosary, you're not on the team. Use code avoidingbabylon at checkout, and you'll get 10% off of that too. I actually am going to order a couple of more black monk rosaries. My uh nephew is getting baptized on Sunday, and I would like to leave it for him as a gift when he's old enough. So I'm gonna get it for him for his baptism.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 6:57

Um, all right, so Rob, we'll give our takes first. Um, I have some I have some I have a clip of Father Maudsley, Father Maudsley giving his take on it. Um, and then we have uh we have uh a I'm more interested in the reaction to people's reaction. Like uh like integrity magazine, Stephen Cox's magazine, put out uh an article, the false friends, father uh Taylor. I'm sorry, false friends, Taylor Marshall and Father Rippinger betray Archbishop Lefebvre by opposing the consecrations. And I'm just kind of like I wanna I want to understand how how they think that they're betraying Lefebvre first of all. Like it's just I don't understand how anybody could be surprised one she's dead, yeah. Okay, but like Ripperger was a fraternity priest, right? And now he has his own priestly society.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

Oh wow, Gasper's in here taking shots of Red.

SPEAKER_04 8:02

It's just it's it's it's amazing to me that anybody would be surprised that Taylor, who's a I I'm pretty sure he goes to a fraternity parish, and Ripper, who's a a former fraternity priest, that guys like that would have a sympathetic attitude towards the SSPX, but in principle, don't think they should consecrate the bishop. Like they join, they attend a parish where the priests left the society because of the original 88 consecrations. Yeah, like it's actually perfectly consistent with their view. I I don't understand why that's betraying anybody or showing their true colors. It's it's baffling to me why anybody would take that position.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

It's like well, it's because you know, uh, converts who are ultra traditional is uh Catholic. Oh, we'll get into his bio anti-revolutionary is his name.

SPEAKER_04 8:56

We're gonna get into Rion Van Zill, who's who's such a silly Dutch name. Is that what he is? He's Dutch. Well, he's from South Africa. This is his bio. A convert to the faith, an ultra-traditionalist, Catholic counter-revolutionary, an advocate for integral. Like, you guys are so freaking cringe sometimes. Ultra Catholic traditionalist, just stop it. It's bad as being Patrick attending an Orthodox parish. Just stop it with this stuff. Like, man, the Sede's, I'm telling you guys, like, what's what's funny about this is this guy who wrote this article, I guarantee he is a sede who hates the SSPX, but he sees an opportunity to drive a wedge between like your typical traditional Catholic and the SSPX. Like, they can't stand that the SSPX is kind of friendly with traditional Catholics who are more in you know in inside normal canonical status. They hate that those guys will talk with one another with respect and see each other, try to see one another's viewpoints. So, what they do is they try to drive a wedge there because they can't stand anybody who doesn't see the world exactly as they do, and they don't understand how it is that people look at SETI's like they're a bunch of crackpots. It's like you guys don't even have the ability to have conversations, so you you just you're just lunatics. So you see anybody, so I didn't even watch Taylor's stream, but I'm assuming he came on and said, I like because if you read the um the letter that the society put out, it's basically like the Council of Trent, like the Trent Catechism is what they put out. Like, yeah, any normal Catholic that reads through that, you're gonna just go, okay, I agree with that, I agree with that, I agree with that, I agree with that, I agree with that. So it's that's basically what it is. There's a couple of um things like uh things that they brought up that are important that especially Rob and I going through this encyclical series lately, um are pretty important to to me to talk about, too. Let me see. Let me bring up uh Michael Haynes' is this is this really Taylor? That is Taylor, I believe so. I think so.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

I forget what his handle is.

SPEAKER_04 11:13

Yeah, I don't know. The PhD at the end may not be Taylor.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Um it's a correct statement, regardless.

SPEAKER_04 11:19

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Um so wait, where is it? Uh shoot, I gotta find the actual Michael Haynes tweet. Um I might have put the wrong one in there.

SPEAKER_04 11:32

Like they gave a list of um a list of things that they're like the errors they're worried about, which are especially with us going through that encyclical series, are pretty important.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Um let me see if I can find it. You got it? Sunscreen.

SPEAKER_04 11:54

Okay, there you go. Okay, so um okay, so I acknowledge in particular the that modern errors represent a dreadful threat to the whole of the Catholic order, and that their uh penetration into the life of the church under the influence of the Second Vatican Council and post-conciliar reforms has provoked a crisis of exceptional gravity. I agree with that wholeheartedly. Yeah, agnosticism attacks the knowledge of God, naturalism attacks the necessity of grace, subjectivism attacks the supernatural motive of faith, relativism attacks the immutable immutable immutability of dogma, situational ethics attacks the divine law, liberalism attacks the social kingship of Christ, false ecumenism attacks the uniqueness of the church, collegiality and synodality attack the divine constitution of the church and her hierarchy, liturgical anthropoc anthropocentrism attacks the holy sacrifice of the myth. Like it'd be hard to argue with those things, right? I mean, 90% of like that is right from the like the syllabus. And so, like, uh, like I I was going back and forth with Jake from uh he was Joe McLean's producer, formerly Joe McLean's producer, and now I think he does the morning show over there. And Jake was trying to tell me that it's our job as Catholics to cope. And I'm like, man, that like what are you what like what does he mean by cope? So um, all right, so uh strangely, Brees Olzdad wrote the SSPX profession of faith, among other things, everyone Christians, Jews, Muslims, pagans, and atheists must enter the Catholic Church for salvation, and that the apostolic mandate to convert all peoples remains binding. Non-Catholic religions and

SSPX Consecrations And Online Obsession

SPEAKER_04 13:40

communities cannot be treated as equals of the Catholic Church. A person conscious of serious sin must not receive Holy Communion. Goes through like a list of things that pretty much every Catholic would agree with. And then Pope Respector said almost everything she lists can be found in Vatican II. So I said, I wonder if people are delusional or just gaslighting, because today, literally, today, the dicastery for interreligious dialogue puts out a meeting between Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs in Europe building fraternity through dialogue and collaboration. So it's like the church, like you can't say the Second Vatican Council affirms all of those things, but then in reality, the there's a Vatican Dicastery promoting interreligious dialogue and fraternity without the fatherhood of God. So I said, I wonder if people do anything. Yeah, like you can't have a situation where we're watching the Archbishop of Detroit going and speaking at a mosque and pretend you're upset about that when he's doing it with the explicit blessing of the Vatican, like he is doing implicit, yeah, but like all that kind of stuff is done with the express permission of the Vatican, like it really is implicit. Once again, yes, it's yes, but then holding it that's how they can that's how he's all around it and stuff. Like the Pope is all literally telling him to do it, yeah. So Jake says, Ah, yes, the infamous doctrinal and dogmatic and binding declaration of an interreligious conference at a Roman university. Finally, we have clear proof of Rome's formal defection of the faith. And it's like, Jake, I'm not saying Rome is defected from the faith when I say that. Like that that's not where I'm going.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

But like you this is a this because of course that the church doesn't do anything. The church doesn't pronounce doctrine or dogma anymore.

SPEAKER_04 16:18

Yeah, and and the thing is, I'm not claiming the church defected or anything. I'm just saying, like, this is an official Vatican Marshall. Okay, there we go. The irony is that these Sede Inc. personalities are accusing us of betraying Lefebvre, whatever that means, but they're sedevicantists and Lefebvre would banish them and curse them, they betray him. But it's just it's like to to be surprised that a guy like Taylor or Rifferger would hold that opinion is you know, the O is right next to the I. I don't know what to tell you, it occasionally comes out. Um, like to be surprised by that, right? Like I go to a diocesan TLM, I don't go to a society chapel. So for me to be like gung-ho about them doing that, like I almost feel like I I don't have any business like being that passionate about this. But the like in reality, I've I've like I've thought about this, I've thought about this for a while recently, though, and part of me is happy that they're doing it because they are a sign of contradiction, and it's something the church must contend with, and it's something the Sede's will never be able to do because they're so disjointed, and they're their priests are ordained by some fuke bishop line that may not even be like it's just so preposterous to think the Sede's are accomplishing anything other than like ankle biting the novus order, their whole personality is set as opposition to the novus or they don't do anything where the society has a structure that allows them to actually teach the faith to people and they have missions throughout the world and they're bringing the sacraments to people. It's like, yes, we're very sympathetic to that, you know, it's a lot different than the set of a contest. The set of acantists, they don't get that a guy like uh guys like us look upon the society and are empathetic to what they're doing because they simply just want to be Catholic. And if they got express permission to consecrate these bishops, there wouldn't be this giant fiasco. So in our minds, we're like, why wouldn't the why would the Pope just let them consecrate the bishops and keep the status quo? Like they still have their irregular canonical status, it doesn't mean you're condoning everything they're doing, but at least give them their bishops so that they can continue their mission while talks are still going on.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

Or at the very I mean, at the very least, like don't excommunicate them. Yeah, you can say that you still disagree, you you know, you still disagree with the excommunication. Yeah, I don't know. It's like I don't like I usually don't like the whole like centrist sort of everyone's wrong or everyone's right position, but on like on this side on in this situation, I I don't think it's crazy to say I I understand the view of the SSPX. I think it m it is probably imprudent to do the consecrations right now at this moment, but also Rome is is wrong to one not allowed and two to excommunicate them for it.

SPEAKER_04 19:19

Look, the problem is that Rome hates tradition. Yeah, they hate tradition. It's not it's not like a shocking thing to say. Um yeah, right? Like that's what I said. Like I've attended FSSP for 15 years, and today it's said a breaking news that I'm not a soloist.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Well, I mean, they're not never mind.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

Well, the thing is, like you saw even when Ripper was talking about, he's like, There's no winning, there's no winning this argument. No, you're gonna make someone mad no matter what you say. But the truth is, guys like us are very sympathetic to what the SSPX is doing, and in some ways, I'm I'm kind of glad they're doing it because it's keeping some kind of pressure on Rome to face this thing that they're that they're discussing because there are major freaking problems right now. Well, okay, not Rome, the the the hierarchy, right? The hierarchy hates tradition. Clearly, our hierarchy hates tradition. Like we have a bunch of revolutionaries who who have been elevated to seats of authority in our church who despise tradition. Like they know it's like every chance they get to put the pressure on us. And look, in in some ways, like somebody asked the question today like, what's the difference between a person going to the Latin Mass at a society uh uh chapel or a fraternity uh parish, and the response was the guy going to the society chapel doesn't have the like the sword of Damocles hanging over his head that that Rome's gonna take away his Latin mass at any time.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

There really is something to that, and it's not even worrying about Rome taking it away. Like if you are at an FSSP or ICKSP parish, like we've seen your local bishop could take it away anytime.

SPEAKER_04 21:12

Yeah, yeah, look, and and the other thing is like a lot of the stuff, like we were goofing around earlier this month about like Matt Gaspar slaying the Sede's and stuff, right? But the the Sede's have a major problem in that how do they answer the visible the visible aspect of the church, like the that the that there's a visible church, and in some ways, like the SSPX is still a sign of visible sign of the visible church because they do have a structure amongst them, and they're and they're still recognizing the Pope. Now they're they're kind of in battle with him right now, and they're they're you know trying to figure some things out, but they still do recognize the Pope, and they and they're not they're not calling him an anti Pope or anything, you know? They're just it's but But um yeah, the the whole man, I don't know. This stuff just kind of gets wild. So I mean we have I would like to uh oh all right so just back to what Jake was saying. Um Jake said so Jake responded to me, he said the church has had crises before, and so you're denying there's a crisis. No, I love you too, Anthony, but it's literally our duty as Catholics to cope, not to bury our heads in the sand, of course, but also not freak out. God rewards hopium, not doom scrolling.

Modern Errors List And Vatican II Reality

SPEAKER_04 22:30

And that's the line I had a hard time with. Like, it's not our duty to cope. Like it's it's really not our duty to cope. Like you can you can see the situation for what it is and understand that the crisis is really bad right now.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

I think I think when he says cope, I think he to read him charitably, I would say he maybe he means like just like to suffer through it. Which I which I'm fine with that. Yeah, I know you would agree with that.

SPEAKER_04 22:58

Yeah, I'm fine with that. I don't like the idea of pretending all is well, right? Well, yes, 100%. That I can't do. I can't just pretend like all is well when we're we're reading these encyclicals, and as you go through them, every single thing that the popes are warning us about are now yelled from the rooftops as as good things from the modern hierarchy. So there's clearly an issue here, and it's uh like like to me, um I I I put something out the other day. I want to see if I can find it real quick. Like it has to do with story to me. Like, like anybody that has ever watched an amazing comeback story in sports when you when you have a series going on, and the and the like if you were a Red Sox fan and they were down in that series four or three games to to none, and then they come back and they wind up winning that World Furies that year, like those are the those are the ones you remember, those are the the the stories you remember. And the way that I see things right now is for those of us who keep faith through this whole thing, and you just say, All right, I don't know what's going on, but I trust that God has everything, you know, like that God understands what's going on, you're going to see the greatest comeback story in the history of humanity because it is going to appear as though all hope is lost, and then comes the return of the king. Like that's that's how that's how the story plays out. And if you're somebody who thinks that the the what's going on right now means the church defected, you're not going to recognize the story when it happens. Like for for the sedes who think what is going on right now looks like this isn't the church anymore. Like you're you're looking you're looking at the church in her passion, and Christ, when he's at the pillar being beaten, does not look like the messiah, but he's still the messiah. So it's like the this is a the the grand storytelling of God. God will it will seem as though everything is like gone. And the reason Christ gives us the promise that the gates of hell will not prevail is because it will appear as though the gates have prevailed. Angels in the outfield has done irreparable damage to the Long Island Italian populace.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

It's been so long since I've seen that movie. I'm gonna have to show my kids that movie. Thank you for reminding me.

SPEAKER_04 25:34

Yeah, so like to me, um more than mine and Rob's opinion on this, because I think most people understand our opinion. Like, our opinion is very similar to Taylor's, where I'm very sympathetic to the SSPX, but I go to a lot, I go to a diaston Latin Miss. Like, I'm not comfortable. Um I'm not I'm not I'm not comfortable in in my position as a construction worker, like ruling from my chair and saying, well, this is this and this is this. Like I just yeah, I I still have to have the humility to go, I don't understand this stuff, but you know, I I have to trust that God's God's gonna come through for us.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

Like I'm I'm not sure that the consecrations are the right thing to do, but I know I want the SSBX still out there, yeah, and to continue on in their mission, right?

SPEAKER_04 26:23

And I like every single person in my life that I know that goes to the SSPX is an awesome Catholic. And it's like when they're when they're allowing when they're allowing some of the craziness that they're allowing, like some of the stuff the Vatican allows with ecumenism and all this stuff, it's like I'm looking at the the people I know at the society chapels, and they got like, you know, eight kids and they're just going to mass every Sunday and they're just trying to live out their Catholic faith. And for a lot of people, they go there because that's the only good liturgy they can find. So it's like I'm not gonna sit here and I'm not gonna condemn those people, and I'm also not going to be shocked when people who go to the diocesan mass are like, yeah, you know, we're praying for all involved. Yeah, this isn't this isn't a grift where you're trying to cover your bases and make sure all trad still want to listen to us. Like, that's an absurd position to have. Like, no, I'm very I'm even sympathetic to the sede position, not because I'm trying to cover all my bases, because I see how crazy things look. And I'm like, Yeah, I do see how somebody can come to the conclusion that something crazy happened at the council and all the popes since the council are not valid. Like, I I understand that I don't agree with it, but I can at least understand it. And the problem is the guys who hold that position, they have no ability to see things from our perspective. They're like, if you don't agree with what I say, you're a heretic, you're part of the Novosordo sect, you're uh you know, it's just it's hard, it's hard to like have discourse with people like that. It's an insane crisis we're in, and people are coming to different conclusions. And I don't see how people can call you an idiot if you came to a different conclusion than them. It's just it's just preposterous to me. So, this this cornball. I'm so glad we're getting back to him. Rion von Zil. Rion von Zill. I have no idea how to pronounce his name. False friends, Taylor Marshall and Father Rippiger betray LaFette. Like, shut up, stupid. They revealed their true colors this week. No, they didn't reveal their true colors this week. We've all been saying the same thing for the past decade.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Ripper, Father Ripper, like he was trained as a priest by the FSSP. What do you expect? Nobody revealed their true colors, guys.

SPEAKER_04 28:45

We've all tell you guys the accusations here are so insane. Uh, uh, the approaching consecrations of the society have once again exposed the fault lines within the traditional Catholic world. Like, guys, that there are a lot of fault lines in the traditional Catholic world, like because of idiots like this, yeah. And the guys like this, like I said, this guy's probably a set of a contest who hates the society, but he sees an opportunity to drive a wedge between your diocesan Latin mass Catholic and your society going Catholic, right? Like they see an opportunity. Hey, let's drive a wedge in, let's call them Catholic Inc. or Trad Inc or whatever they do. More interesting than the reaction from Rome has been the reaction from prominent conservative quasi-traditionalists, like God, you got such harping losers. Like, holy crap, man, voices who have spent years benefiting from traditionalist audiences. Like, I don't think these guys realize how small the SEDA audience is. Like, I don't, I don't I hate to break it to you guys, but like your average SSPX attendee sees things the way we do too. Like, it it's not, I haven't there are definitely people who have uh a more sede um position in in the society, like there are those people, but like most of the people I know that go to the society, they're just like Catholics trying to be Catholic, and the society is the best option they have, and they've made a home at that at that at that chapel. Um, so uh two examples stand out. Uh Dr. Taylor Marshall's comments on a recent episode, uh and Father Rippiger's episode also. So both men present themselves as a sympathetic to the society and both express admiration for Lefebvre. They're not faking that. Like when you read Lefebvre's autobiography, it is the thing is uh we're also gonna go through a correspondence between Lefebvre and Paul the Six, which is super interesting. No, it's it's actually really interesting. We're gonna go through that. Um uh, but when the moment of truth came to take a clear stand, both retreated into ambiguity, caution, and appeals to obedience to structures that have become instruments of the post-conciliar revolution. Like the then the the part that makes me mad is grifting off society faithful. Uh Marshall's treatment of it, like the idea, because they're there the the theory here is that guys like us or Marshall or anybody in the traditional uh landscape is grifting because we hold a sympathetic view towards the society or even Lefebvre.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Because they'll never be monetized online, they assume that when you are monetized, you make a lot of money. Therefore, people like Taylor Marshall and to a lesser extent, us make a lot of money doing this.

SPEAKER_04 31:33

Like, are you let me tell you something? I I've said this about the CEDAs before. Like, they've accused me, they're like, he could never become Sede Vacantist because he'd lose his audience and he'd lose lose his revenue. It's like I don't care what position I have, I will make it entertaining and people will enjoy the show. Like, that's that's the reality of it. Yeah, yeah, I've just portrayed my 1.8 million person SSPX holy audience. What was I thinking? Like Rob and I do a show, it's an entertaining show. If I if I came to that position, we would we could talk about anything. Like Rob and I could just talk about whatever. I mean, I it's uh I don't need to I don't hold this position because it makes me money. I hold this position because I genuinely hold it. Like I've never lied about what I what I hold per my personal views about this stuff. I I like I I don't know. I don't know what I don't know why people would think that. It's it's a silly thing.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Um so should we should we show people how much each show makes on YouTube?

SPEAKER_04 32:39

Oh my gosh, it's embarrassing.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Yeah, embarrassing. Like I know, but let's just do it. You're not missing people here. Yeah, look at this. Uh Nancy Charles, 8569, uh 42 bucks. Yeah, guys, we're not gonna eight bucks on the camaradermelo anthony one. That was that was the banger one there,

Cope Debate And Facing A Crisis

SPEAKER_02 33:00

guys.

SPEAKER_04 33:00

Guys, you don't get you don't make money on YouTube. I hope you guys know this. You do not make money on YouTube. You do you you you make money doing other things, you don't make money on YouTube. So no, I'm not worried about betraying my audience. But um, yeah, to show admiration for Lefebvre, you need to um that's that that's something you can take that down, Rob. That that's an interesting thing because uh guys like us, who are especially Rob and I were cradle Catholics, right? We're we're coming up in the heyday of the lighthouse Catholic media days, right? Uh, like back then, I would watch Taylor Marshall on Becoming Home Network and hear his journey home, like that was the time period I'm coming up in. And the the propaganda we heard about Lefebvre was like they're schismatic, don't ever go near them. Like you they were more evil than the Satanists, and that was the propaganda that we received, right? So then when the McCarrick scandal happened, and then COVID, it was really COVID. COVID, I think, flipped a lot of a lot of people's minds. I I remember Taylor saying that he went to a society chapel during COVID because they were the only ones offering sacrifices.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

I think he went for for Palm Sunday or Easter, something like right, yeah, it was something like that.

SPEAKER_04 34:21

And he and he went and he was like, Wow, these priests like they're the ones laying their neck on the line during during these shutdowns, right? So, for a lot of us to go from the propaganda we received about how these schismatic, evil trads are trying to destroy the church and all this, to then going, all right, let me look at this from a different lens under Francis. Because Francis, he was like the great revealer for a lot of us. And we all were like, let's take a second look at this. That the whole even Michael Matt's Unite the Clans thing, like that was really about like the fraternity and the society. I think he was saying, like, we're in a we're I don't know for a fact, but like that's what it came off to me as it wasn't really yeah, it wound up becoming a broader thing under Francis, where it was like, everybody, let's just you know lay down our arms and come together. But like fundamentally, it was about the fraternity and the society, and it's like, guys, you guys could because you would hear you would hear homilies from fraternity priests telling people do not get married at a society chapel, do not go to confession at a society chapel, like your your your your sacraments are not valid, they don't have a valid canonical static. Those are the homilies you would hear. No, to be very back then, they did not have faculty to give confession. Yeah, no, no, no, it was Francis that gave it to them, ironically, right? Yeah, unite the clans was Trads Uniting, right? And it was like, let's let's put these like squabbles down for the for the moment, we're in something really crazy right now, and um, and so a lot of us did. A lot of us were like, Okay, let's take a second look at this, and then when you actually think about what Lefebvre was going through, because I try to put myself in that mindset or that time frame of the council, and I see how I feel now. And if I was like growing up in the Latin mass, because now I've been exposed to the Latin mass for what eight, nine years now, what since 2017, nine years. Like, I see how passionate I am about this stuff now. Now, what if I grew up in the Latin mass and then all of a sudden they take it away and you're watching all this stuff go down? You would hope that we will be part of the guys who are like flipping out, don't take our Latin Mass away.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

Have you read uh Lefebvre's um letters to uh a letter to confuse Catholic?

SPEAKER_04 36:34

No, I well, I think I have, it's just been so long since I've read it.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

It's really good, it really helps you see the struggles that Catholics were going through as a whole.

SPEAKER_04 36:43

Oh, yeah, yeah, I've definitely read it.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

Just really gets gives you a good sense for Lefebvre himself, too.

SPEAKER_04 36:50

So um uh uh today I learned some taffy intros cost more than A B makes an episode. Because he's paying for those AI intros, those silly AI intros. Um, I want to bring up this uh this uh back and forth between Lefebvre and uh Paul the Sixth.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Let me find it real quick in the messages here.

SPEAKER_04 37:16

That's the last thing I put in. So uh confronting a rebel archbishop's accusations and acts of the now, this is from National Catholic Reporter, so I don't know how like this is from back in 2018, is from National Catholic Reporter. Um, confronting a rebel archbishop's accusations and acts of defiance was the heaviest cross Paul VI had to bear at his pontificate, says a new book on never before published notes and documents.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

After years of correspondence, the Pentecost uh octave was uh gotten root of.

SPEAKER_04 37:46

Yeah, right. After years of correspondence and efforts at convincing Lefebvre, founder of the SSPX, to accept the teachings of the council and the authority of the Pope, uh, Blessed Paul lost his patience at times in a private meeting and suspended the cleric in uh 1976. So this is the quote. It said, You said it and wrote it that I would be a modernist Pope by applying an ecumenical council, I would betray the church. Do you understand that if this were so, I would have to resign and invite you to take my place and lead the church? Pope Paul said, according to a top Vatican official's reporting of the proceedings. The typed report and handwritten notes and letters of Blessed Paul are part of a new Italian book, The Bark of Paul. Um, so the book makes public more than two dozen handwritten letters. There's a good part here, hang on. Uh, but most dramatic are the documents on Lefebvre. The book focuses on the Pope's comments and reactions. All right, so at length the Pope condemned the false and inconsistent doctrine uh and grave divisive actions of the archbishop during a secret consistory with cardinals on May 24th, 1976. The book said, uh, the times the Pope told the cardinals called not for concessions but vigilance against all dangerous and incorrect interpretations of the Second Vatican Council. Just a few months later in July, Lefebvre was suspended from his priestly functions after he illegally ordained 13 priests at his seminary in Switzerland. In an open violation of his suspension, he led a mass at a sports arena in France before thousands of faithful and hundreds of journalists who reported or who reported or broadcast his lengthy homily in which he defended the traditional faith and lambassed the conciliar church. In the end, after direct correspondence, intermediaries and a number of public statements seemed to have failed to sway the archbishop to meet uh and Pope to who met face to face with him in September 11th. The Pope's personal secretary also attended along with the assistant secretary, whom the Pope charged with taking notes. Written like a transcript, the reports that Paul, uh Pope Paul began conversation saying, I hope to have before me a brother, a son, a friend. Unfortunately, the position you have taken is that of an anti-pope. What can I say? You have not allowed for any measure in your words, your actions, or your behavior. Uh, you judge the Pope as disloyal to the faith of which he is the supreme guarantor. Perhaps this is the first time in history that this has happened. You told the whole world that the Pope lacks the faith, does not believe that he is a modernist, and so on, blessed Paul said, underlining the extreme gravity of such accusations and the need to reflect and accept the just consequences. Now, I never I because I always thought of the consecrations in '88. Like I didn't realize this stuff was going on, like this kind of tension was between Paul VI and Lefebvre, and Lefebvre's out there lambasting Paul VI, calling him a modernist, and saying he doesn't have the faith. Like that must have been a wild thing to witness. Now, if you're a faithful Catholic at the time, you're going through this, like the confusion that people must have had between loyalty to the Pope and seeing all these drastic changes happening. Like, I don't, I don't know. Like, you have to give a certain amount of um like grace to the people who were just totally confused,

Lefebvre And Paul VI In Real Time

SPEAKER_04 41:10

like and all the people who probably just stopped attending mass because they were like, I don't even know what's going on anymore. Like, what the heck is happening? The church seems completely different, and then those people who are like, I have to follow the Pope no matter what, that is the like that is the sign of a true Catholic. A Catholic follows the Pope, right? But then you have the traditionalists who are like, There, this is literally the the the Protestant Reformation happening in our church. This is the Kramer table popping up. They're they're having guitar masses at my local parish. Like, what is going on here? It must it must have been a really chaotic time that I never really took into consideration that we started to think about in 2017, 2018. It was like it was especially for the younger guys who are just kind of coming into this in the past like five or six years. Because even to talk about the McCarrick stuff, Rob, that's a decade ago. It is, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Right the 2002 stuff is two and a half decades ago.

SPEAKER_04 42:12

Yeah, so the original the original abuse crisis happens in 2002, but the McCarrick stuff breaks in 2017. And yeah, man, if you if you guys weren't paying attention to the Catholic, like um, first off, there was a way smaller commentary, right? It was Taylor Marshall, like he was who everyone was listening to. It was just it's what it was, man. It was like you were you were watching this stuff happen, and Taylor was like one. We should get him on to talk about this because I I mean we've done it once before, but it was like he Taylor was he was in the Catholic speaking circuit, he was hanging with Scott Hahn and uh like Patrick Madrid, and like that's that's the circle or like that. Uh that that photo, the photo of Jennifer Patrick Madrid and Taylor Marshall. I posted the other day. I was like, man, like a different world, man.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

Um yeah, it was not so easy following in your footsteps.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

Let me tell you, and it's like, dude, it was just you couldn't wait every day to like I remember driving home and like pulling in my driveway, and I wouldn't want to get out of my car because I had to finish listening to the rest of the episode. It was like riveting stuff going through the the vegano stuff was happening. Like people that you younger guys that kind of converted after 2020 or something, you don't know what that time was like. We were all Pope spleening early on in Francis's papacy.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

We were all just like just like you know who who else doesn't know what that time was like, the uh convert ultra traditionalist uh yeah anti revolutionary exactly right in that article.

SPEAKER_04 43:56

Man, it's funny because like even a lot of the guys. in like the in the stratosphere now came in in like 2020 like they're they're not even veterans like it's it really is interesting to watch how the landscape has has changed over time but it was just it was an insane time for for for guys who grew up under jp2 and then benedict and when benedict was pope it was just like this glorious time where we had this ultra traditional pope is what we thought uh I like those days because orthos didn't know how to use the internet yeah I look there's a whole there's a whole lot of stuff going on in ortho world man those guys I I we have so much so much content we could get to tonight because we have we're keeping the two hours at most I got stuck yeah you know what and we're gonna wrap up the society show like we're gonna we're gonna keep that and then we'll go over to locals and we'll do some other stuff over there but yeah I just look it's been a wild ride the past decade and um I my like I'm I'm at a point where I just I I think that the I think that the bishops in the society they know their own flock and they know their own needs better than any of us do and I think they're doing what their conscience is calling them to do. I can't I can't tell them what to do and I don't go to the society. So I'm going to sit back and watch what happens like the rest of us and I don't think me putting my two cents and saying I don't think they should do these concept like who cares what I think like absolutely like who gives a crap what what I think um y'all should go back and watch Marshall podcast parsing Francis in Spanish to explain what I know I remember those days. You know what would be a fun show to do we should get Taylor on and review some of his old shows like that that would be funny like that would be deflating episodes I think that would be a fun show. First off dude I go back and watch shows of ours from like a year or two ago and I'm like oh they're so terrible like I guarantee he would cringe so hard at some of his older stuff but no but uh look that's when Taylor started doing commentary but there were years where I would listen to his podcast because he was just doing like biblical analysis and and you know and Catholic like he was doing catechesis. So I was like I was listening to Taylor of uh new New St.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

Thomas for like half a year.

SPEAKER_04 46:22

Me too for more than that. Yeah I was I was I was a member of New St. Thomas Institute it's just funny that like you know you're I'm I'm listening to Taylor Marshall through all this stuff then I then I watched the McCarrick stuff happen I'm watching Taylor Marshall and then like it turns out to eventually that like I'm friends with Taylor Marshall he comes on the show it's just it is kind of funny how all that happened because we were just like you idiots in the chat at one point right like we would I don't mean like that but you know what I mean like we were just we were just hammering. We're gonna lose our 40 bucks a show ant yeah it is funny how that happened um but yeah I don't know like I I my position is pray for all involved and I and I'm gonna urge the the set a's to chill out a bit they do not know how stop trying to drive a wedge between between like your diocesan latin mass going Catholic and the and the SSPX guys like they there's no there's no animosity between those guys like I I don't know I've never caught any animosity from SSPX guys towards like if I go to a diocesan Latin mass like I've gone to the society chapel on days where like my only option is a terrible novus order and I'm like I'd rather go I'd rather go to the society on days like that and they're they're always nice to me and great. So I don't know I don't sense that animosity so yeah we'll pray for all involved and then oh no don't tell me locals crashed let me go check it's showing fine on my end.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

Probably because the uh tower you guys built immediately I'm still seeing it live on my local it's working for me.

SPEAKER_04 47:57

Yeah it's just your personal locals show crashed locals is up and running on my end. So all right so we're gonna wrap this up um and head over to locals I appreciate all you guys for checking us out. Taylor let's uh let's pick let's pick a date we'll get you back on man because we should reminisce one episode it's it's kind of wild how how different how different Catholicism and like the Catholic world is now versus when when when I first started really we didn't read this one when it came in early in the show but I had the same discussion with my future mother in law she's deep in the SSPX circles and I basically said that it's not my call I ache for the SSPX and I'm constantly scandalized by the BS that Rome. Yeah it's look it's yeah you know when we say Rome we're not talking about the papacy and we're not talking about like shorthand yeah it's just we're just talking about like you know the Vatican but yeah it's look it's it's hard to I just say everybody that's like freaking out over this stuff don't freak out like like stay calm be at peace live your life control what is in your sphere of influence that's all you really can do so evangelize people bring them into the faith bring them into the church do everything you can raise your children properly don't obsess on scandal and just whatever's in your sphere of influence to control that's what you control because there's nothing else you can really do especially uh you know I mean your average person at your local parish like there's not much you that we could do granting on the internet and and just like the constant negativity feed is is not always good for your spiritual life and stuff. So really just do what you can do in your local sphere of influence and just sit back and watch because God's going to do something spectacular and I think it's

Peace Advice And Moving To Locals

SPEAKER_04 49:40

gonna be in our lifetimes. So you know the worse it gets the worse it gets the more comforted you should be with the fact that God is we're closer to God's intervention because God will not let us down. Like God will intervene it's just how far will he let it go before he does this that's that's all it really is a matter of. So we're gonna head over to the other side uh thank you all for watching if you're not a locals member join our locals we got we're gonna talk about the Orthodox tonight because there's an Orthodox priest saying some crazy stuff about their liturgy and then I got a cool father Maudsley clip to counter what this guy's saying.

SPEAKER_02 50:14

Also I never told you the story of how I accidentally gave money to a master Freemason.

SPEAKER_04 50:20

Yeah we'll have to talk about that I don't know what that's about and then I forgot all about that if we have time I have the most insane John Deloney clip I've ever heard where a woman quit drinking and she called in to tell John Deloney how she's having a hard time that her husband hasn't quit drinking yet and John Delaney encourages her to divorce her husband and I'm just like wait what? Wait what did you just say she quit drinking and then what she quit drinking yeah and she was going in to say how she's having a hard time that her husband hasn't quit drinking. He still drinks even though he doesn't drink to excess and he's not an alcoholic and John Deloney says I think that you need to divorce your husband what uh what no dude it's the most insane thing I've ever heard so we might get to that I hope we can get to that because I'm going to lose my mind on this one but we have a ton of other stuff to get to also so we'll see you guys on the other side uh pray for everybody involved in this take us out Rob oh man you that was your cue I know