Rome Has Spoken: When the Pope Declared War on Secret Societies | Humanum Genus

For 146 years, pope after pope warns Catholics about a secret society and almost nobody listens. So Leo XIII does something different: he frames the whole problem as a war between two cities, the City of God and the City of Man, and then names the modern structure he thinks finally gives the “city of man” real organization. That document is Humanum Genus, and we dig into what Leo actually argues, why he goes theological instead of just issuing another ban, and how his critique of naturalism and religious indifferentism maps onto the modern secular state.

We also slow down and do the unglamorous work: what is real history in Freemasonry’s development from medieval guilds to Enlightenment-era speculative lodges, and what is just romantic myth. We talk higher-degree esoteric influences, why the “all religions are equal” claim is not neutral, and why Leo ties these ideas to education, public life, and the replacement of Christian civilization with a functionally atheist public order.

Joshua Charles joins us to connect Humanum Genus to Monsignor George Dillon’s The War of Antichrist with the Church and Christian Civilization, a book Leo XIII endorsed and helped circulate. We unpack Charles’s “sola natura” summary, the Catholic claim that grace perfects nature, and why a society trained to violate conscience becomes easier to steer. Then, because we’re us, the conversation spills into current events, media narratives, and a late-show pivot through the Carmelo Anthony verdict and JD Vance explaining his conversion to Catholicism.

Subscribe for the rest of the encyclical series, share this with a friend who thinks “religion is private,” and leave a review if you want more deep dives like this. Where do you see the City of Man pressing hardest right now?

Transcript

Popes Warn Of A Secret Society

SPEAKER_02 0:31

For one hundred and forty-six years, the popes had been warning Catholics about a secret society. Clement XII first condemned it in 1738. Benedict XIV reaffirmed it in 1751. Pius the Seventh, Leo XII, Pius VIII, Gregory the Sixteenth, Pius IX, Pope after Pope after Pope for a century and a half named the same enemy and rang the same alarm. But by 1884, almost nobody was listening. The lodges were full. The lodges were respectable. The lodges counted kings, prime ministers, generals, and even bishops' nephews among their members. To the educated European of the nineteenth century, the idea that a charitable gentleman's fraternity was actually fighting a spiritual war against the Catholic Church sounded like the paranoid raving of an institution that had already lost. So, Pope Leo XIII, the same scholar pope who had answered the modern world with Aquinas, sat down to write the most detailed, most theological, most devastating condemnation of Freemasonry the Church had ever produced. And he didn't open it by talking about lodges. He opened it by talking about two cities.

SPEAKER_03 2:23

If the last episode was slow, this one is not going to be. No. Um I man, what a what an episode. Okay, so first off, Joshua Charles is going to be popping in because part of my studying for this episode was going back and reading um The War of the Antichrist with the Church and Christian Civilization, which was Monsignor Dylan's book that Josh re uh published. Re-edited, yeah. Yeah, he he he republished it and he wrote an intro to it. And just going back to that made me reach out to him. I was like, hey, if you want to jump on, just because I know Josh has a lot of thoughts on this, but I had never read um I had never read this encyclical. And right off the bat, it talks about the city of God and the city of man. And it's already playing with the same themes we talked about when we did the Ticonius episode. Um and I man, like I have so many different thoughts on all of this. So like as Rob's going through the historical context, I have I I have thoughts on why I think um why I think a lot of this stuff took root in the aristocracy and in the monarchies, and why what we're what what we see what happened there with those monarchies and stuff has now crept into the hierarchy of the church, and they're going to see the same fate as the very much in line with what our lady said about um the the bishop suffering the same fate as King Louis, right? Because King Louis, what, the 16th or 15th, or 14th, 14th who didn't consecrate. The warning was given to Louis the 14th, but I think Louis XVI suffered the consequences, suffered the consequences because he consecrated it 100 years too late. I think there's a way to relate all this stuff together. So um, before we get into that, uh, I don't have a Knickknack success story, but I know who didn't take Knickknacks and that Melo Anthony. I was gonna say his defense attorney, definitely take Nick Knacks to be fair, man.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

I that guy had nothing to work with.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

That is true, but uh that is going to be the subject for our own very own secret society. Rob and I start a secret society over on locals. So if you'd like to discuss uh the Carmelo Anthony situation over on locals, that's what we're gonna do tonight. Uh go to nicknack.com, use code AB25% for 25% off your first purchase, use code AB10 for 10%

Sponsors And Side Banter

SPEAKER_03 4:53

off subsequent purchases. I think if Carmelo Anthony had prayed a rosary on Black Monk Rosaries, he might have had a different outcome as well. I think maybe if he had just been praying the rosary in general, maybe he wouldn't have murdered someone. But yeah, that's a good point, man. Go to Black Monk Rosary, use code uh avoiding Babylon, and you'll get 10% off a checkout. Black Monk Rosaries are awesome. Uh great wedding gifts, birthday gifts, Father's Day gifts, Father's Day is coming up, guys. Get your father a black monk rosary, and especially a gift for a priest on Father's Day.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

Do you have any priest friends?

SPEAKER_02 5:30

I've had I've had a couple priests say that they don't like that. But it's probably more of a personal thing. They just gift on Father's Day? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

That's interesting. Um, I I think that's uh subjective. Um, I also uh I got I got tickets to go see Scott Hahn in September. Scott Hahn and Dr. John Bergsma. So I uh and I have a priest friend coming to that with me, hopefully. Uh so we'll see how that goes. But man on the street interviews? Man on the street at a Scott Hahn conference. Yeah, Scott Hahn's gonna be at a parish like 10 minutes from my house in September. So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go. Him and Dr. Bergsma will be there. And it'll be interesting when I called because I have Scott Hahn's phone number.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Who gave you that?

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Tim Flanders, like years ago.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

So maybe maybe we're like sitting outside, like doing like the meet and greet and he's signing books. I'll just call him as I'm standing next to him. Just to mess with him a little bit. We'll see. Anyway,

Why Leo XIII Writes Humanum Genus

SPEAKER_03 6:37

um, all right. So, Rob, historical context today. You're not are you gonna what are you gonna do for the historical context? Are you gonna take us through like the history of secret societies, or are you gonna actually take us through the time period?

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Um, so the we we've already gone over the time period quite a bit, right? Um, so we're not gonna go do we're not gonna do a lot about the time period, we're gonna do kind of the history of of masonry. Um, not super deep, right? Because I mean you could go really deep into it, but we'll do a little bit of the history of masonry, where it actually comes from, um, where it gets some of its ideas, what some of the myths are, um what are some of the other connected organizations, and then we'll talk a little bit about how that leads into Leo writing uh humanum genus.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

Man, the thing the things that Leo says in that encyclical are highlighted a lot. You what I highlighted a lot of yes, me too, man. And it's it's impossible. Like, this is gonna be a long one tonight. Uh, especially with Josh. Yeah, I know I shouldn't have been by well. The thing is what is the code for the lobster wine? So the funny thing is, I called Josh yesterday to invite him on, and the phone call took like 25 minutes. Like, my wife is cooking dinner, right? And I called Josh and I'm like, Nicole, I gotta call Josh real quick. And she just she just went real quick. I'm like, yeah, I'll try to make it quick. And I get I called Josh and it took like a 25-minute phone call to call Josh. And I was like, All right, I get on the phone with him, and I'm like, Nicole, I gotta call Rob real quick and just let him know that I got Josh. I'm like, don't worry, a phone call with Rob is not gonna be like phone call with Josh. I call Rob, I'm like, Rob, Josh coming. It's like okay, okay, okay. Like, whenever whenever I said to Rob was like, okay, sounds good. Okay, see you later. And we have 25 seconds, 30 seconds tops. My wife started bursting out laughing. I told Rob back as you're hanging up.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

I can like I you weren't laughing, but I could hear something in your voice. I'm like, he thinks something's funny for some reason.

SPEAKER_03 8:49

Oh, dude, it was just just how quick and easy phone calls are with you. You're just like, just get to the point, tell me the damn thing you want me to know, and I'll say, Okay, disagree, whatever it is. It is actually a pleasure to talk to Rob. He's he's very easy to get get on and off quickly with. So, um, all right, yeah, take us on a trip, Rob.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

Okay, uh, so for those of you who have been um been with us for the last few episodes, you you already know who who wrote this, right? Well, our last episode was on attorney patrios, and um Leo the Thirteenth, uh, who wrote that, wrote this. So, in episode four, like I said, we talked about Leo the Thirteenth, who was elected in 1878. He was locked inside the Vatican by the new Italian state. Um, and he he refused to fight the modern world with another syllabus um of condemnations, like the syllabus of errors. So in attorney patras, he he re-arms the Catholic mind with Aquinas. Um, but uh, but I mean what you need to understand about Leo the 13th is he's he wasn't a soft pope, he wasn't a compromiser. The same year he's restoring philosophy in Aquinas with one hand, with the other hand, he's preparing to name the enemy he believed was behind every assault the church had suffered for over a hundred years. You know, he had looked at the wreckage of the 19th century, the French Revolution, um, the lost papal states, the uh Kulturkampf in Germany, the closed monasteries, the anti-clerical law, sweeping France and Italy. And he didn't see it as just random chaos. He saw a pattern behind it, and you know, he he knew that that pattern had a name. And then so on April 20th of 1884, he wrote that name down in an encyclical named Humanum Genus. And like all encyclicals and most papal documents, it's named after the first two words. Um, so humanum genus, uh, the human race. And Leo uh starts it off by writing that basically, since the very beginning, the human race has been divided into two camps, into two kingdoms, basically two cities locked in an unending war. Um, and if that sounds familiar, it's because Leo XIII is reaching back 1400 years to St. Augustine and his masterwork, The City of God. For those of you who are unaware uh unfamiliar with it, Augustine wrote that all of human history is the story of two cities. On one hand, you have the city of God built on the love of God, even to the contempt of self. On the other hand, you have the city of man built on the love of self, even to the contempt of God. So, two loves, two two different loves, two different loyalties built into the entire human race since the fall of Adam, since Cain and Abel, since uh Babel. And Leo the Thirteenth's thesis, the thesis of this entire encyclical, is that in the modern age, the city of man had finally found an organization. It finally had a structure, it had a disciplined, international, secretive body dedicated um as its

Operative Masons Become Speculative Masons

SPEAKER_02 11:53

very purpose to the destruction of the city of God on earth. And he believed that that organization was Freemasonry. Uh, before we go into any further as to what Leo XIII claimed, um, we have to be kind of careful about the history here. Because there's a lot of real history, but there's a lot of myth wrapped up in the subject, too. Um but I mean, honestly, the real history is almost as strange and interesting as the the myth. And if you know, you gotta be careful on YouTube because if you talk too much about the myth, you'll get a you'll get a little pop-up underneath the video.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

But uh I was wondering if we should do like uh should we use like Anthony Stein language for this one? But Rob said, no, as long as we couch it in historical context, we should be okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

Yeah, we'll be fine. We don't need to hide what we're talking about. Um, so Freemasonry it didn't begin as a conspiracy, it was a trade union. Um, in the Middle Ages, the men who built the great cathedrals of Europe, the actual stonemasons, the men who cut and laid the stones at uh Chartres, uh Cologne, Canterbury, all the big cathedrals, they belonged to guilds. Uh the craft their craft was difficult, it was dangerous, but it was also very valuable, right? So they guarded their craft, they guarded the knowledge, um, and all like the institutional trade secrets they have, just like companies protect you know, um, intellectual property today, basically. So they had secret signs, secret handshades, secret passwords, not for any mystical reason at the time, but because you know, basically for the same reason of like a modern using modern union has a membership card today to prove that you were a trained mason and not just some random laborer who was trying to undercut the wages that the mason masons were receiving at the time. So this this phase is what historians call operative masonry, because masonry masonry that actually built things out of stone. But it started to change in the late 1500s and early 1600s. Um these these guilds, especially in Scotland and England, started to do something new. They began admitting men who weren't masons at all. They started to admit gentlemen, scholars, aristocrats, and they there they were basically curiosity seekers who liked the symbolism, the ritual, and like the fellowship of the lodge. But they were guys who were you know had never laid a single stone and were never going to lay a single stone. And these guys were what called were were called uh speculative masons. And over a century, slowly, these speculative masons kind of took over. The craft itself drained out of the organization, but the symbolism stayed. The trowel, the compass, the square, they stopped being the tools that the masons used and became metaphors and symbols for speculative masonry. And then comes the date that the the the history of Freemasonry really turns on. Um 1717, in London, four lodges met in a tavern and emerge in the first Grand Lodge of England. And that's basically when the uh you know a builders' guild officially became more of a philosophical society, and the philosophy it adopted was that of its age, the enlightenment. So reason above revelation, liberty, equality, fraternity. And the god of these men were was a god that was basically stripped of every specific feature, every doctrine, every demand, you know, is the vague, distant, grand architect of the universe. Um, you know, the the deist god basically, under whom the lodger said all religions were equal, and that basically none were true. Um, and that one phrase, all religions are equal, is the thing that Leo the Thirteenth would especially spend, you know, his time attacking in his encyclical um you know, to Leo. That's it wasn't tolerance, it was the denial of Christ. Um, so that's kind of the the history of Masonry up, you know, up until 1717.

Esoteric Streams And Templar Myths

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Um, but we want to talk about kind of the esoteric sort of streams of Freemasonry, like what's real, what's legend. Um, and I mean, let's be honest, most of you guys are are here to hear that more than anything, the legends, the myths, conspiracies. Um but as so as speculative masonry grew, especially on the European continent, um, and especially in the higher degrees, it didn't just stay a deist gentleman's club, it became a sponge. It absorbed nearly every esoteric and occult tradition floating through uh Renaissance and early modern Europe. So, for instance, it absorbed uh Hermeticism, which is supposedly the body of mystical writings attributed to the legendary uh Hermes uh Trismogistus, with the famous formula as above, so below. Uh, and this uh Hermeticism includes the pursuit of hidden knowledge, uh Gnosis, you know, symbol and ritual. It absorbed alchemy, not like making gold, um, but more like spiritual alchemy, you know, so the language of death, purification, rebirth. Um, and alchemy maps almost perfectly onto um the Masonic initiation and the central drama it includes of um the legend of Hiram uh Abif, who was the murdered master builder, and they ritually mourn and ritually raise him in their in their symbolic rituals. It absorbed uh Rosicrucianism, which was the early 1600s legend of a secret brotherhood um that held so-called ancient wisdom and promised a universal reformation of all human knowledge and society, and some Masonic rites and lodges claimed direct Rosicrucian descent. Um, and then it also absorbed elements of Jewish uh Kabbalah, you know, stuff like the Tree of Life, mystical numerology, esoteric obsession with the Temple of Solomon, all of which are woven to the higher degrees of Freemasonry. Um, then of course, you also have the legends of a connection to the Knights Templar. You often hear that the uh Masons are the secret secret continuation of the Templars, that when the Templars were suppressed on Friday the 13th of October 1312, that they went underground and resurfaced centuries later as Freemasons. That's really just entirely a legend, um, completely unfounded. Uh, this the Templar story got grafted onto the higher degrees of fame Freemasonry in the 1700s, basically because it was like romantic. Yeah, you know, you had knights, secret treasure, hidden survival. It was a good story, and it made for uh uh you know, really spectacular ritual. It made them feel like ancient and dangerous, but and a good I mean it's all a LARP, yeah. Yeah, Dan Brown Brown fiction stories, Dan Dan Brown LARPy fiction. Um, there's absolutely no documented chain of custody from the Templars to the Masons, but um October 13th, or Friday the 13th and October, one that's where the legends of uh you know Friday the 13th being unlucky, that's where they come from, because that's the day the the Templars were betrayed by the King of France. Um, and also October 13th, you know, tied directly to Fatima as well, at least that date is. Um, so the the the actual documented esoteric content of higher masonry, you know, the Hermeticism, alchemy, uh the Kabbalah. Um, it's basically the deliberate construction of a rival initiatory religion with its own priesthood and its own sacraments. And you know, that's that's damning enough on on its own. We don't need you know talk about any Templar myths or anything like that. Um the Templars were faithful Catholic knights who were betrayed by a secular king and were wiped out. And it's when you're gonna say something.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

No, no, no, yeah, yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

Um, you know, and so that's why you we need to tell the troop and tell the truth and drop legends, um, because then the people that you know you're arguing against lose their easiest counterattack. And that's what Leo the understood. He didn't condemn Masonry for for the fairy tales involved with it, he condemned it for what it actually was and what they actually believed.

SPEAKER_03 20:33

Um the interesting part is like how how even when you when you get into these secret societies and masonry and stuff, they understand the importance of ritual, right? Like they understand you of a cultist.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

They literally create a cultist uh, you know, out of nowhere because they know how important it is.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

And and and most of these groups are made up of these Protestants or you know, or atheists, like those large portion of atheists in them, a lot of Protestants, but there's in some way a lot of the ritual is mocking Catholicism because they know the power in the ritual of Catholicism, so much so that like for 2,000 years it shaped the entire world, so they're they're in some way mimicking and aping the rituals of our of our faith.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

Same thing with the Mormons, uh, which are very, very influenced by by Freemasonry. You know, they invented their ritual basically out of nowhere. But um, um, so the thing about a society like the Freemasons who worship reason, uh, deny revelation and teach that all um religions are equally false. Um, what's interesting that is that in Protestant England and America, the society the the Freemasons stayed relatively tame. You know, in in America and in England, it's largely uh somewhat charitable and civic um organization, mostly just a network of handshakes, lodges. Um shriners in their stupid circus cars, you know, things

Masonry As Anti Clerical Politics

SPEAKER_02 22:05

like that. But in Catholic Europe and Catholic societies, the the philosophy of the Freemasons became a weapon. So in Catholic lands such as France, Italy, Spain, Latin America, the lodge became the natural headquarters of the anti-clerical, anti-Catholic movement. You know, they didn't have that to fight against in England and here in America, um, but where Catholicism was strong, like it, like I said, it becomes the headquarters of an anti-Catholic movement. If you wanted to strip the church of her schools, if you wanted to secularize marriage, if you wanted to seize the monasteries, dispel the religious orders, and drive the Catholic faith out of public life, the lodge, the maze Masonic Lodge, was where like-minded men gathered, organized, and coordinated.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

So, so real real quick, like Leo the Thirteenth in his in this encyclical talks a lot about um how those who are mired in vice have no uh no ability to like to to withstand the pressures of this stuff, right? Like if you're mired in vice, you're just gonna cave into all of this stuff. I have I I think especially when you get into looking at the the French court in the 1700s and your you know before the French Revolution and all this stuff, you're dealing with a court who's so mired in vice, and they want to go about sexual debauchery, and they have bishops and cardinals around them, always looking over at them, right? And you have the people around them, and they just want to be left alone to go about and play in their vice.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Uh to be fair, I think a lot of that is um is kind of made up to attack the French monarchy and aristocracy uh aristocracy by but honestly by masons, probably.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Yeah, well, I'm I'm just looking at like what is it that that pents the the the wealthy and the aristocrats and and the and the you're definitely right about that, like vice, yes, for sure. It's just they're in vi and when you have bishops around, it's almost like they're trying to ruin our fun. Like, can you guys just get out of here while we go and do what we want to do, you know? And it starts as something simple like that, but like the reason they have to get the church out of these positions of authority in is because you really do have the city of God throughout all of these Catholic lands, and and they they want to overturn it so that they can you it it's so difficult for them to get their program through when you have a healthy Catholic population, so they're just doing everything they can to overturn that healthy Catholic population and get their ideas to spread like wildfire. This is in the time where the printing press is firing pamphlets off and all these different, you know, uh newspapers and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

So yeah, and even though this um uh the the Freemasons often uh bring down monarchies, uh, it's not it it makes sense that Freemasonry develops after uh Protestantism because Protestantism leads to uh absolute monarchies, right? In England and in France, um even in Catholic nations, the Catholic monarchs see the powers that their Protestant, you know, uh contemporaries are able to achieve, and they want that too, of course. So they they become absolute monarchs as well. Uh Louis XIV may be the greatest absolute monarch um of all time, but uh and even though Freemasonry starts to bring down these monarchies, it it's all to increase the power of the state, right? Well, even if they say it's not a monarchy and ends up being a republic, these states start to gain more and more power. And and Freemasonry wants to bring down the the church to give more and more power to the state. The state cannot truly have power when the church has the reins over marriage, has the reins over schooling, you know, things of of that nature, and you have to kick the church out of those areas if the state is going to control everything, especially marriage.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

I like I think we're so desensitized to just think the the state has a say over marriage, and the state is the one who can issue a divorce and things like that. That the church had complete authority over these matters because these are spiritual matters, it's a sacrament. And once you put the state in charge of it, they could just dissolve a marriage with the stroke of a pen, it just becomes some contract. It's this is why the the encyclical before this is actually on Christian marriage, right? There's one or two before this, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:57

Yeah, so it's like the one between um attorney patras and this, and this, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:02

There's the Leo is writing an encyclical on Christian marriage because the state is trying to take over marriage. And now, now the argument today that we're having about marriage, it's like now look what the state could do, they can allow two men to get married because it's a it's a mockery of marriage, it's no longer a sacrament and it's just looked at as a contract that between two people.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

So um, but uh so yeah, if we're if we're talking about the what how Freemasonry develops in in Catholic lands, you start to have some really radical offshoots.

Illuminati Carbonari And Infiltration Fears

SPEAKER_02 27:37

So, like in 1776, the year America's founded, in Bavaria, you have a law professor named Adam Weisshoff who founds the Illuminati, like the actual Illuminati. Um, and the Illuminati is a radical, um, rationalist secret society who whose goal, like their explicit goal that they, you know, their secret that they sit out loud was they were they wanted to infiltrate the Masonic lodges and use them to advance like an entire total enlightenment overthrow of throne and altar. Um, the ver the Bavarian government does uh crush the Illuminati in 1785, um, at least like the actual organization itself, but the idea of it, you know, a hidden order steering events from inside other organizations, um, never dies. Uh, you know, it haunts the the European and really the global uh imagination um for 200 years, and you know, judging from all the modern conspiracy theories involving the Illuminati, it still kind of haunts our imagination.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

It still haunts our imagination, right? Our whole, our whole um all of the architecture and our capital is designed with this stuff in mind, and it's like you know, it's right in right in your face. I mean, these these secret societies still exist. That's yeah, kind of interesting. Like, when like part of the reason we invited Josh on, like, I kind of want to get uh Taylor Marshall on as well, because a lot of the stuff we're talking about he addressed as an infiltration, right? And a lot of people came down on him in infiltration because he was talking about Freemasonry a lot in it. And he had to like preface that when he came out after when he was promoting the book. And he's like, Look, if you have a hard time with Freemasonry, just look at it as like those with enlightenment values, you know, because as soon as you mention this topic, people label you a conspiracy theorist and stuff. But these these secret societies had a lot of power and a lot of influence to the point where I mean most of our presidents have been members of these of these secret societies, whether it's skull and bones or you know, the actual Illuminati or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Harry Truman was a 33rd degree freemason.

SPEAKER_03 29:47

Yeah, like they they they pick their own stock to then run the country, you know, and they get to they get to develop things out. And I mean, when you look at the decay of the modern state, it's kind of hard to argue and say this stuff is just conspiracy theory, because you see how how how little control we actually have over our own right, and in and it doesn't it doesn't have to be like centrally organized, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:15

By some secretive high council somewhere, you know, it it's it's especially once you infect people with the ideas, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:22

It's an infection, is what is exactly what it is. You infect people with these ideas, right? And then you get these ideas into Catholic seminaries, and now the priests are being formed with these ideas, you know, basically grounding their their like their their basis for understanding the world is grounded in these principles, and then eventually these men become bishops, and everything you saw happen in the secular state during this time we're talking about has now crept into the church, and we're we're going to watch that all play out in the church, too.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

You know, people um people will make big deals about people being masons today, and obviously, you absolutely should not be a mason, and the church still condemns it officially, but uh in some sense it it doesn't matter, right? Because the vast like 90% of people have beliefs that are as radical or more radical than the most radical Freemasons in the towns.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

Well, he and Leo even says in the encyclical, like the vast majority of people who are Freemasons have no idea about any of this stuff. What he's really getting at are those who are sworn at the highest levels, sworn into these very secretive parts of this organization. They're they're punished if they betray the secrets, things like that. Like, like when you see uh David David L. Gray come out and say, uh, I was a Freemason and I left Freemasonry, like David L. Gray was not high up in Freemasonry.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Like he just if that's the type of people that's high up in Freemasonry, we're gonna have that organization licked in the next 20 years. Yeah, go on.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

Like David L. Gray coming out, it's like it's it's a shtick that he used to like get to give him prominence.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Salza was the best the Masons have. Oh boy. No, uh no offense to either of those guys. But um, so okay, we the you have the Illuminati. Uh in the uh in Italy, you have the the the Carbonari. Um the Carbonari had Masonic style rituals, secret oaths, hidden cells. Um, but they were openly revolutionary, nationalist, and openly anti-papal. Um, they weren't just metaphor and symbolism, like they were a literal insurrection. They were one of the big engines behind the Risorgimento, but behind the Italian unification movement that we talked about in episode three tore the papal states apart and made the Pope a prisoner. So, you know, if you try to understand the view that Leo had in 1884, he had watched secret societies, whether we're talking about Freemasonry or Carbonari or whatever, um, he watched secret societies full of men formed in the lodges take Pius IX kingdom. He had watched anti-clerical governments staffed and led by Masons close Catholic schools across France and Italy. And as he as he writes this encyclical, he's a prisoner in the Vatican because of forces that trace back again and again to Masonic lodges. So

Naturalism And The Functionally Atheist State

SPEAKER_02 33:29

it's not just paranoia to him, like it's it's literally what is happening to him at the moment. Yeah, um, so on April 20th of 1884, he issues Humanum Genus, and it's unlike any prior uh condemnation of Freemasonry. The popes before him.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

I wanted to ask you that, right? So, like uh Leo in the encyclical talks about how how there were popes before him who were already condemning this stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, but many of these prior condemnations are really just disciplinary in nature, you know. They're they're decrees saying don't join, you know, the the law, you'll be excommunicated, it's a forbidden secret society, you know. So like Clement XII first first imposes an excommunication for Freemasonry in 1738. Um, but Leo goes a lot deeper than just you know a disciplinary um condemnation. He he goes theological on it. He he doesn't just say that it's forbidden, he explains what it is and what they believe. And he basically charges that Freemasonry is entirely built on naturalism. You know, it's the belief that human reason and human nature are really the only authorities and that there's nothing above man, there's no revelation, no supernatural order, no god who commands. Um basically man is his own god and reason is the only altar. And he charges that it spreads religious indifferentism, you know, the poison that all religions are equal. And he, of course, he he writes, uh rightly so, that um that that inevitably leads to no religion at all. Um he says that it works to tear the church away from the state, to build a public order, a government, a school system, a civilization that is functionally atheist, that acts in every public matter as though God does not exist. And he says that its ultimate aim, whether every low level low-level member knows it or not, is the overthrow of the entire Christian order and its replacement with the purely human, purely natural society. In other words, it's its ultimate aim is the full uh the city of man fully built with the city of God driven underground.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

So that is actually what's happening in the church, too. Uh Monsignor Dillon says the principle of private judgment introduced in an apparent zeal for the pure worship and doctrine of Christ has ended or had ended in leaving no part of the teachings of Christ unchallenged, right? So this this one little idea of like private judgment then spreads like wildfire, and and all of that, and that's the reformation's hinge point, right? Like, like this idea of private judgment on revelation and doctrine then becomes then turns into leaving no part of of the teaching of of Christ unchallenged. Everything is just up for grabs at that point, and like the the logical end and conclusion of that is the stuff we're talking about. This idea of the city of God being buried beneath the city of man happens in the secular state and it creeps over into the church. So the very same ideas that that wrought havoc on the civil state have now crept into the church, and we're and we're heading towards that direction.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

And okay, Josh, Josh, I think you can hear us right now. Josh is in the green room. I got one more little section to read, Josh, and then do you want to bring them on as we go through the encyclical? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, finish your last little section. We'll bring Josh on right after that. So uh, was Leo right? Well, let's look at what comes after 1884. In France, just 20 years later, the government led by men formed in the anti-clerical uh Masonic adjacent uh milieu that Leo describes. So uh about 20 years later, they passed the 1905 law that formally separates church and state. They revoke the concordat with Rome and they seize church properties. The religious teaching orders are expelled. Um, and basically the entire program Leo the 13th names and humanum genus becomes French law within a generation. In Italy, you'll already have the anti-clerical state, more or less created by Carbonari and other Masonic groups, um, that had imprisoned the Pope, and they continue to build uh a public order with the church completely locked out of it. Um, across Latin America, you have Masonic-influenced liberal governments wage their own campaigns against the church's schools, lands, and public rule throughout the low late 19th and early 20th centuries. Uh matter of fact, the uh the Christeros, you know, there the war they're fighting is basically against uh a Masonic-led government.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Um now, not every secular law of the 20th century was dictated by a man in an apron in a lodge. You know, history unfortunately is not that tidy, and we can't pretend that it is. But um, you know, there is a real debate about how organized, how coordinated, how centralized any of this is. But the philosophy that Leo XIII identifies, you know, the naturalism, the indifferentism, the functionally atheist state, um, the relentless privatization of religious faith until God's basically just a hobby you do at home, that philosophy didn't lose, you know. That that philosophy won. It's it's the unspoken state religion of every Western government today, and we're currently living inside the city of man that Leo uh watched um watched them pour the foundations for.

SPEAKER_03 38:57

So

Joshua Charles On Dillon And Sola Natura

SPEAKER_03 38:58

so all right, Joshua Charles, welcome to avoiding Babylon, brother. It's very, very nice you pop in.

SPEAKER_06 39:05

How are you, man? Well, good. I um to avoid abate groans, I will close the comment section and uh and focus entirely on uh the task at hand.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

So I asked you to join tonight because um in what we've been doing is doing a papal encyclical series basically uh trying to understand history from the perspective of the papacy. And tonight's episode is on humanum genus. And as soon as we decided to do that, I remembered reading Monsignor Dylan's uh The War of Antichrist with Church and Christian Civilization, which you wrote a foreword to and republished. Rob, do you have the cover of that book that you could put up? So if people want to go, he's he's got it right there. Yeah, it which is no, let me make it bigger here. Gogan Jack.

SPEAKER_06 39:55

We we republished it with Tan in uh 2023.

SPEAKER_03 39:59

So now you read this book uh during COVID, right? Is that is that how that's that's the lockdown, yeah. And uh what were what what made you want to re uh republish it and what like because we're gonna get into the encyclical and rob and I have highlighted a bunch of stuff, but what was it that just like irked you that made you want to republish this book?

SPEAKER_06 40:21

Well, I mean, Monsignor Dillon wrote it in response to Human Humanum Genus. Um, you guys probably mentioned that already. Uh at the end of Humanum Genus, Leo XIII calls on, particularly the clergy, but Catholics in general, to tear off the mask of Freemasonry and to expose it for what it is. Sorry, my throat's a little rough right now. Um and so Monsignor Dillon delivered a set of uh lectures in Edinburgh, Scotland. And these Edinburgh, um sorry, these lectures he reduced to this book, and he actually took this book, which makes it all the more important from my perspective. He took this book to Pope Leo XIII, um and uh Leo XIII endorsed it. I actually found a contemporary Catholic magazine from the time that described Monsignor Dylan um getting into the Vatican and Leo XIII endorsing it, not only endorsing it, but he paid for it to be translated into Italian and printed several thousand copies of it. So so this book, um obviously not my introduction, but Monsignor, we we did republish it. There were a number of typos. I also put in a lot of footnotes um that would explain some of the people, some of the events and whatnot that Monsignor Dylan was mentioning, but many modern readers, including myself in some cases, were not very familiar with some of the some of the particulars. Um, but yeah, I read it during the COVID lockdowns. That's when I found the original version initially, and uh it just struck me that it was incredibly prophetic. And it's interesting that the warnings were so dire in 1885. Um you know, I think we all need to be careful um to uh I'll I'll access my inner uh Rob and Anthony now, my yin and yang on these things. On the one hand, we need to be careful not to be, you know, chicken little skies falling in such a way that it causes us to lose our wits. I think the key criteria is um uh you know bending down toward irrationality and losing charity. Those are the two things we just cannot do when considering these things. Um uh on the other hand, we need to know the signs of the times. And on the other hand, you know, this is something Daniel O'Connor and I talk a lot about. Uh, an analogy I've used for a number of years is um, you know, if we all had uh had like spiritual glasses and we put on those glasses and we saw the state of the world as it really was, um, you know, the state of souls. I just recorded a podcast episode about an ancient vision that bishop a bishop had of souls, is recorded in the writings of the the Egyptian desert fathers. And he saw the state of souls that worthily and unworthily received the Eucharist. And so he saw the soul that unworthily received it as literally blood coming out of its eyes, of his eyes. Uh, it was on in flame. And so he he like had a vision of what the true reality of in front of him was, just like Elisha. I think it was Elisha, you know, when Senecherib and the Assyrians were surrounding Jerusalem, he sees the chariots of fire and whatnot. So if we truly had those sorts of glasses we could put on, I do believe the state of things would be far worse than maybe we even realize, and far worse than maybe even those of us who think we know how bad it is, um, because of just the rampantness of sin. And so if these, if this was the level of warnings being given in 1885, and if um the the agenda it outlines has been so fastidiously achieved in many respects, um I took that as something that we could not afford to ignore, particularly in light of the events of uh of the lockdowns.

SPEAKER_03 43:49

Yeah, I uh I I you also had um, especially in the introduction of the book, you talked about um how important grace is. Is to perfect nature and this religion that the Freemasons are presenting, how how natural it is. And do you do you remember kind of the thesis you put you put forward in that?

SPEAKER_06 44:09

Yeah, I call it sola natura. I was kind of riffing off my Protestant background where a number of heresies are um have the predicate sola, you know, sola fide, faith alone, sola scriptura, scripture alone, et cetera. So I I re I was trying to think what would be the most um concise, pithy way of of summarizing everything um that they believed. And and certainly naturalism is what, as Rob, as you describe, uh Leo XIII. I believe he's a saint, by the way, but uh I keep wanting to say saint for Leo XIII, but um, but he describes it with naturalism. But you know, even that word requires a bit of unpacking, as does nature alone, but so in a Torah and nature alone. Um, yeah, the belief that uh man's nature alone is proportionate to his final end, uh, which it is not. For us to be proportionate to our final end, which is God himself, we must be made proportionate by God himself in order to attain that end. And he he um he does that through grace, through his indwelling uh divine life in our souls. Um, absent that we cannot be proportionate to the high calling and vocation he has given to each one of us as image bearers. And so, yeah, uh the Catholic vision is based on um this reality, not only for individuals, but societies, that every aspect of our, because you can't divide them. You know, it's very we Americans tend to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. I think some of this is changing right now, which is good, but um we tend to atomize ourselves as individuals and forget that um that uh human society is a natural thing, it cannot be avoided. Um, there would be society, there would be government, there would be hierarchy, even if Adam and Eve had never sinned. There is society, government, and hierarchy in heaven right now, um, where there is no sin. Um, you know, our lady is in that hierarchy. Obviously, our Lord is at the height of that hierarchy. So are the angels, the powers, principalities, the different saints. And so um, so yeah, nature is is um uh is part of our human nature, uh I'm sorry, government, society hierarchy is part of our human nature, but absent the grace of God, it cannot um be something which proportions us to our final end. Um, and so the Masonic vision and a point worth making is that when Leo says Freemasons and whatnot, he clarifies, so does Monsignor Dylan, that he is not referring to like every card-carrying Freemason, like the old guys who occasionally go bowling or whatever, don't even know what they're doing anymore. He's just he's using it as a catch-all for all occult societies, and all occult societies animated by Satan want to bring down this uh Catholic vision of this the individual and society. And it's really just a form of Satan's original question of uh did God say, and then offering a form of knowledge by which you can be like God, right? So it's be like God with something other than God, but we Catholics believe we can only be like God because of God Himself, extending Him to us in grace. So, so applied at an individual and civilizational scale, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

Yeah, I see it very much as, and that's how Leo frames it right from the beginning of the encyclical. Uh, so in the beginning of the encyclical, he says the race of man after its miserable fall from God, the creator and giver of heavenly gifts through the envy of the devil, separated into two diverse and opposite parts, of which the one steadfastly contends for truth and virtue, the other of those things which are contrary to virtue and truth. The one is the kingdom of God on earth, namely the true church of Jesus Christ, and those who desire from their heart to be united with it, so as to gain salvation, must of necessity serve God and his only begotten Son with their whole mind and with their entire will. The other is the kingdom of Satan, in whose possession and control are all whosoever follow the fatal example of their leader and of their first parents, those who refuse to obey the divine and eternal law, and who may who have many aims of their own in contempt of God, and many aims also against God. Right off the bat, getting to Genesis, talking about the the uh the the seed of the serpent versus the seed of the woman, talking about the kingdom of God versus the kingdom of man. And my my what I've learned through doing this series is seeing that these ideas and this virus that gets planted into civil society at first, and the church is restraining from like from this virus, the church is fighting against it. It seems because we're trying to understand everything that we're in today without just going, oh, Vatican II, you know, like it's you see this mind virus that starts back then creeping its way into the church. Two two episodes in a row, we discussed how there were already priests within within the church who were pushing these ideas, and the pope actually had to call them out by name. Uh Gregory the 16th did.

SPEAKER_06 49:05

Yeah, yeah, Pashendi, Pius X, and and and you know, there were even popes before Vatican II, you know, like uh Pius XII, who's an amazing Pope in many ways, but he was already engaging in some pretty profound liturgical uh uh novelties and and uh you know refinements, reforms, whatever you want to call them, that were arguably you know losses to the liturgy, you know, long before um Vatican II, you know, we do the pre-55 Holy Week at my parish with permission and all that. Um it's it's got a lot of stuff that had already been messed with long before Vatican II started. And uh as I as I remind people, because I think sometimes people treat the Latin Mass, which I adore and and you know it's my far preferred mass. I believe it's objectively superior to the Novus Ordo. Um I don't hate the Novus Ordo, I go to daily Novus Ordo quite frequently. Um, not interested in um you know creating ghettos in the church, but I far prefer the Latin Mass. But um it uh a lot of these things were happening before, and I like to remind people who treat the Latin Mass as a panacea that all the all the bishops of Vatican II and whatnot all celebrated the Latin Mass. We're all we're all fully Latin Mass, you know, traditional Latin Mass in a way. So um, so yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_03 50:20

What you really see when you go back and study this period is not only did they have the Latin Mass, they had the most based popes ever, like literally, like these popes who were calling this stuff out by name, fighting it. The doctrine is intact, the liturgy is intact, you have an amazing pope, and it still cannot stop the advancement of these ideas.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

I mean, this is uh well our

Liberty Of Conscience And Modern Politics

SPEAKER_02 50:43

fifth episode. Um, we start off in what 1831 um with Mirari Voss. We're now in 1885, so 50 almost 55 years, and Leo the 13th is repeating stuff we heard back in Mirari Voss. You know, that we've heard in every encyclical that we've read since.

SPEAKER_06 51:02

Well, one thing I thought was also interesting about Humanum Genus and also Monsignor Dylan's book is um uh the popes, particularly Leo the 13th, if you want to accuse those who discuss these topics of being conspiracy theorists and uh and tinfoil hat and whatnot, and of course, conspiracy theorists is a CIA invented term after the Kennedy assassination, so that should clue you into its origins. Although obviously there are some conspiracy theories that are that are false. Um, but they were raging conspiracy theorists. If you take this, um take what they say seriously on this topic, and I and I do. Um, and I think one of the reasons why many people kind of like to dismiss these things, they don't realize that this is literally the air we breathe, the water if we were fish, the water we breathe. And uh so, in many ways, the Masonic, the occult uh agenda has already won. I mean, it it one of the th one of the things that's been interesting since becoming Catholic, I came into the church July 13th, 2019, Saturday, um, is I'm continually peeling back assumptions I had growing up in the modern world that I have since realized are mostly, if not completely, wrong. Um, but many of those assumptions come directly from a Masonic agenda whose purpose was to subvert the Christian foundations of society, as you guys were talking about. And one of the things I did in the introduction is I quote Leo XIII in particular, but a few other popes as well, who had other encyclicals and other letters they wrote on Freemasonry, where they provide a number of other startling warnings. Um, do you mind if I read one of them that's not too long? Go ahead. Uh one of them is from uh I'm not, I don't know how to speak Italian, but Del Alto, this is from 1890. Um he says this system, the one he's talking about in Humanum Genus, is adopted and carried out wherever Freemasonry uses its impious and wicked actions. And as its action is widespread, so is this anti-Christian system widely applied. But the application becomes more speedy in general and is pushed more to extremes in countries where the government is more under the control of the sect and better promotes its interest. Here, the direction of public affairs and what concerns religion is wholly in conformity with the aspirations of the sex. And for accomplishing this aspiration, they find avowed supporters and ready instruments in those who hold the public power. I mean, many of us would call that a deep state now, and I I trust me, I mean, you guys know my thoughts on Trump. I think, I think many times the the the rhetoric of deep state and whatnot has been used to convince people they actually know what's going on as a cover. So anyway, but the point is he is describing something like a deep state. He's describing um, you know, how Freemasons like to get control of the public power. And if this if people want to look this up, I forget what year it was. Oh, I forget what year it was, but uh you can find it on C-SPAN. They did a reenactment of the Masonic ceremony that George Washington did, laying the cornerstone for the Capitol. It's very interesting to watch the whole thing. Um, but in particular, I think it was Mike Enzy, a uh uh senator from Wyoming, I believe. He had been a mayor of a town in Wyoming. He's a Freemason, and he was proud of it when he was at the ceremony. And he was saying, whenever there was a new public building, he would always get the Masons to come over and consecrate it. So he was saying, yeah, we like to get the public buildings, um, the government buildings to consecrate them, just like George Washington did with the Capitol in uh, I believe 1793. And uh and they did with the White House. You can find that on the White House, I believe, the White House website or the White House Historical Association website. They talk about it. So they got the cornerstone of both the White House and the Capitol, and um, you know, interesting stuff, but it could it conforms perfectly with what Leo says here.

SPEAKER_03 54:48

So well uh Rob, I'm gonna jump into section seven already. I don't know. I I because Rob, there's so many things we have highlighted.

SPEAKER_02 54:56

No, I didn't have anything highlighted between four and seven, so yeah, that's that's fine.

SPEAKER_03 55:01

All right, so uh Freemasons grew with a rapidity beyond conception in the course of a century and a half until it became until it came to be able by means of fraud and or of audacity to gain such entrance into every rank of the state as to seem to be almost its ruling power. This is exactly what Josh was talking about. Exactly. This this swift and formidable advance has brought upon the church, upon the powers of princes, upon the public well-being, precisely that grievous harm which our predecessors had long before foreseen. Such a condition has been reached that henceforth there will be grave reason to fear, not indeed for the church, for her foundation is much too firm to be overturned by the effort of men, but for those states in which prevails the power, either of the sect of which we are speaking of, or other sects not too dissimilar, which lend themselves to it as disciples and subordinates. Now, this is where I think Leo is a little optimistic, a little optimistic, and not seeing that even in the church, this stuff would wind up taking root and its members. I mean, you go back and you look at Archbishop Fulton Sheen talking to Bell Add, talking about communists infiltrating the the priesthood and then being elevated up to bishops, and these are these are the things that we're talking about happening within the church.

SPEAKER_02 56:18

Yeah. And what if you look at the the chain of events that eventually leads to Vatican II, you know, Vatican II is that's a fruit of World War II. And if World War II is basically a continuation of World War I, it's worth noting that World War I is kicked off by a organization called the Black Hand, which is basically Freemasonic in origin. Like the group that assassinates Archduke Franz Ferdinand had multiple Masons involved. The guy who trained the assassins provided the weapons was was a Mason. And I mean that World War One is basically Christian Europe Christian Europe committing suicide. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:02

The final property of it, at least.

SPEAKER_02 57:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:04

What what do you have highlighted next?

SPEAKER_02 57:07

The beginning of uh number nine. Me too. Um there are several organized bodies which, though differing in name, in ceremonial in form and origin, are nevertheless so bound together by community of purpose and by the similarity of their main opinions as to make, in fact, one thing with the sect of the Freemasons, which is a kind of center whence they all go forth and whether they all return.

SPEAKER_03 57:33

Yeah, I can't. I kept going. Now these no longer show a desire to remain concealed, for they hold their meanings in the daylight before the public eye and publish their own newspapers, and yet, uh, newspaper organs, and yet, when thoroughly understood, they are found still to retain the nature and the habits of secret societies. There are many things like mysteries, which it which which it is the fixed rule to hide with extreme care. So, this is what I was talking about before, not only from the strangers, but from very many members. So, like lower members don't even know about this stuff. Also, such as their secret and final designs, the names of the chief leaders and certain secrets and inner meetings, as well as their decisions and ways not and ways and the ways and means of carrying them out. This is no doubt the object of the manifold difference among the members to the right, office, and privilege of the received distinctions of orders and grades and of that severe discipline which is maintained. Like, this is just the the vast majority of people like that guy Aiden we had on the show who's like, Oh, Freemasons is just like a members club. It's like, yeah, for you, but the vast majority of people who are in the you know who are Freemasons don't actually ever get to the the you know the the levers of power where they're the ones you know picking who's running for president and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 58:47

And I think he was he's a member of um uh the what a blue lodge. Does that make sense, Josh? Like one of the English lodges?

SPEAKER_06 58:56

Uh I'm forgetting the details, but sounds right.

SPEAKER_02 58:59

But I think you know, not one of the uh the oriental you know lodges from the the continent, which you know, as we talked about in the the intro, got really radical.

SPEAKER_06 59:11

Yeah, yeah. You know, I and I don't, you know, quite honestly, I haven't I think it's um we all need to be careful. You guys haven't done this, by the way, but we all need to be very careful about spending time and energy delving into the arcana of Freemasonry. Um, so I I truly and honestly don't know too much about um the differences between the lodges. I have often heard what you just said that the continental variety was more extreme. Obviously, in terms of some of the immediate fruits of it, the French Revolution seemed to be more extreme, more sanguinary than uh than the American Revolution. Um but honestly, I I think the reach of the American Revolution has arguably been more widespread and uh impactful. Um, I mean, many in the French Revolution directly appealed to the American Revolution. And indeed, France was helping the American Revolution, which probably helped help bring on the Ben Franklin going over to France to help them with theirs.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:13

They're very much the same revolution.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:14

Mostly Jefferson, mostly Jefferson, but yeah, but but Franklin as you know, to a lesser extent as well. But Jefferson, Thomas Paine, you know, and Thomas Payne was despised by many of the father, many of the founding fathers, especially John Adams. But but um, and yeah, and and Jefferson had some pretty significant disagreements with John Adams about certain things. Um, but yeah, the French Revolution was was always appealing to the American Revolution as a as a model and went in a different direction a variety of ways. There are differences. Um I I do think the founders were generally more grounded. Um, but uh, you know, we're heading, we're heading to the 250th of um of uh you know the declaration. And the declaration, you know, has some things in it that are true, but it has some very important statements in there that are totally false, such as when it grounds the legitimacy of all government and the consent of the governed. As Catholics, we believe that consent is very, very important and it can be an important means by which um government operates, you know, obtaining a sort of uh formalized consent in some form or another, but it is not the origin of authority. The origin of authority is God. And, you know, that may seem like a sort of um, you know, uh autistic sort of uh focus on details to use a term that many people prefer these days, but it but it really isn't because um well and I I have this quote from if I can read it really quickly, um it's from I think it's from uh yeah, Albert Pike Morals and Dogma, included in the introduction, because it it exemplifies some of this. It said the Mason's Creed goes farther than that. Um, and the the that was every man's opinions are his own private property, and the and the rights of all men to maintain each his own are perfectly equal. So he's saying masonry goes even beyond that. He says no man, it holds, has any right in any way to interfere with the religious belief of another. It holds that each man is absolutely sovereign as to his own belief, and that belief is a matter absolutely foreign to all who do not entertain the same belief, and that if there were any right of persecution at all, it would in all cases be a mutual right, because one party has the same right as the other to sit as judge in his own case. We can unpack that. And God is the only magistrate that can rightfully decide beside uh between them. To that great judge, Masonry refers the matter, and opening wide its portals, it invites to enter there and live in peace and harmony, the Protestant, the Catholic, the Jew, the Muslim. Every man who will lead a truly virtuous and moral life, which can't be done without grace, by the way, loves his brethren, ministers to the sick and distressed, and believe in the one all-powerful, all-wise, everywhere present, architect, creator, and preserver of all things. So he's clearly grounding not just not just right, but absolute sovereignty, he says, of belief in the individual, and by implication, the the society of people who determine what they're going to do. And so, therefore, when they make those determinations, um, they don't they don't have a reference reference point above, as it were, an or origination source in God to by which to judge their actions.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:24

And so, anyway, it's it's wait, let me just jump in real quick because it's also it's denying the uh sovereignty of the Roman pontiff right off the bat, right? Saying that he is not actually one who has any kind of authority on moral matters. It's also to get to what you were saying, where like uh in the declaration, how uh the that government government gets its authority from the people, there was the phrase that you that you wrote uh in the in the introduction, also is uh vox populi vax dei, which is the voice of the people is the voice of God, right? Yep. And I I've seen how the church has even adopted that to go where we used to have the sense census fidelium, which would be the sense of the faithful, now seems to be through synodality. It seems like you even heard Leo and Leo the 14 say, uh, first you have to change people's hearts before you can change doctrine. So there's not going to be any doctrinal changes under my papacy. So, like, in one sense, he's saying there's not going to be any changes under my papacy. On the other, he's kind of saying, like, well, you have to change people's hearts and then we can do it. So it's the voice of the people would then be the voice of God. And kind of that that idea and mentality has infected the church a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:39

Well, and if people, particularly if there are Protestants listening who, well, the Pope doesn't have this, the bishops don't have this, just take just compare Albert Pike's statement to the apostles. If you were one of the first Christians, Albert Pike's statement would amount to saying that, you know, a new believer has the same authority in matters of religion as Saint Peter or one of the apostles, and that they and notice that he he obscures this with a sort of pseudo-piety by saying Masonry, God is the only magistrate that can rightfully decide between them. To that great judge, masonry refers to the matter. Oh, this sounds so pious, it sounds so religious, but it isn't. It's literally saying that the apostolic authority God established, whether whether you take that to be popes to the present day and bishops, which we do, of course, or even the apostles themselves. It literally makes it impossible for Jesus to have established apostles at all. Um, which is why it says, oh, we welcome Protestants and Catholics and Jews and Muslims. It's like, well, yeah, because it's an anti-christic, it's an anti-Christian.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:38

It's also it's also interesting when you um because we've talked about this in the ancient world when the when the pagan religions were going away, um, there was this uh there there was this one story of how Julian the apostate told the priests of these cults. You need to care for the poor because that was the thing that attracted people to Christianity in such a big way during the early church. Where when they would typically just throw a baby on the side of the road if it had any kind of deformity, the Christians would care for that baby and pick that baby up, right? And you see, even these masons are telling, telling in their in their bylaws, like we have to care for the poor first and foremost, right? Because they know that uh caring for the downtrodden and the poor is such an attractive thing and such a instinctual uh it's just it's a it's a it's a warping of Christian doctrine, obviously the way they're doing it, but it is such an attractive thing that it does bring people in. If you just see people being kind to people, it will pull people away from the true faith and show like this kind of aping of Christianity over on the other side.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:51

Yep. Um okay, Rob, what do you have next?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:56

Well, uh, I'm just gonna say real quick, um, in the beginning, how he talks, you know, uh Leo talks about Augustine, City of God versus City of Man. I like how uh also shortly after what we just read in number nine, he compares the Freemasons to the maniches, um, which is which is uh Augustine was a maniche for a while, correct? A manich.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:20

I believe so. He he was certainly affected by those ideas.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:24

So uh Leo says Freemasons like the maniches of old strive as far as possible to conceal themselves and to admit no witnesses but their own members. So I I had the rest of that paragraph highlighted, but we we probably don't have time to read it. But I thought it was interesting how O Leo really has this this theme of Augustine um going throughout this whole encyclical.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:46

Yeah, it especially like I had uh I you can see Bishop Schneider's uh on on a tour right now, giving giving uh different different ideas, like he was on with Matt Gaspers talking about how there are members of the hierarchy who seem to not believe the Catholic faith, and yet they're in these places of authority, and and that right away sets the sedes off. And my my comment on it was that you're just seeing the city of man within the city within the structures of the church. You're seeing the city of man being built within the structures of the church, so the body of the devil grows within within the structures of the church, essentially. And the you know, the set a the set a brain goes right to oh, these men are no longer Catholic, therefore they lose their office and all this stuff. But it's like, but no, no, no, only the church actually has the ability to determine that. So you can't, you know, you can't just say, Oh, well, he said this, therefore he's not. It's not up to us to make that distinction, but it is this idea of the city of man overtaking the city of God right before our eyes.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:55

Yeah, there was another um a bishop I quoted in the introduction, Felix Dupin Loop, or Dupinloop, I'm not good at French, maybe. But he was probably not Dupin Loop.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:05

Yeah, funny though.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:07

Oh, with a hard P dupe and loop. No, it's probably not that, I'm guessing. Oh, yeah, I would think Dupin Loop or something like that. But he he was a liberal by the standards of the time, and he was responding again to Leo XIII, humanum genus. And he's quoting a number of um Masonic sources that articulate their principles. These these are direct Masonic quotes. Free thinking is the fundamental principle of Freemasonry, another quote, not restrained, but complete and universal liberty, another quote, a liberty which shall be absolute without limit in its fullest extent. Another quote, absolute liberty of conscience is the only basis of Freemasonry. Another quote, Freemasonry is in fact above all dogmas. Another quote, above all religions, another quote, liberty of conscience is superior to all forms of religious belief. Another quote, Freemasonry is an institution withdrawn from all the hypotheses of the mystics. Another quote, Freemasons ought in consequence to place themselves not only above different religions, but entirely above all belief in any God whatsoever. Another quote, we will be our own priests and our own gods. Another quote, this unlimited, complete, and universal liberty is a right. And there's what Bishop DuPinle says about it. It is this liberty untethered to any objective and absolute truth that the Masonic program intends to spread to every part of the world, amounting to nothing but this, that every man did what was right in his own eyes. That's Judges 21, 25.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:36

Um, yeah, I mean, it's kind of scary when some of those ideas are infected to the highest levels of the church when they're talking about it sounds like the Assisi meetings, man. Religious liberty, the church pushing it. I mean, it's just, you know, these these ideas that we're talking about are in they they they wreaked havoc on secular society, and now they're wreaking havoc within within the confines of the church.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:00

Um well, not only that, but I don't know about you guys, and it we don't have to go down this path if you don't want to, but it it, you know, realizing a lot of these things over the years is uh I was already engaged in this beforehand, largely thanks to some of the founders I was reading, but it went into overdrive when I started diving into this stuff, a profound um skepticism about a lot of our American foreign policy, uh the agenda that we're spreading around the world, um, and the and the the rhetoric that which uh which we um cover it with. Um I don't know about you guys, but that was among the other things that uh has been interesting to me in studying this.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:40

Um, well, also to even get to in in paragraph 16, Pope Leo says Is all who offer themselves or receive whatever may be their form of religion may thereby teach. I'm in 16, like towards the end. Okay, uh teach teach the great error of this age that a regard for religion should be held as an indifferent matter, and that all religions are alike. This manner of reasoning is calculated to bring about the ruin of all forms of religion, and especially the Catholic religion, which, as it is the only that is true, cannot with great and without great injustice be regarded as merely equal to other religions.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:18

Um and of course, that's in our constitution. There shall be no religious test for any person holding office.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:25

Man, I there's so many in here, Rob. I mean, I'm gonna jump down into it.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:28

Again, I want to I want to be clear about that one point. There can be prudential reasons for doing things like that. So I don't think something like that is well, I mean, there's a sense in which you could say it's per se evil, but I again I think our our system was frame, it's a Protestant solution to a Protestant problem, which is to say it's a non-solution to uh an ever-worsening problem, as we're seeing in the world.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:50

Well, I also see there's wisdom. There is wisdom in the church talking about religious freedom in the context of Christians living in Muslim Africa, right? It's like Christians living under persecution in Africa, it's like the church going out and talking about religious tolerance and religious freedom in a non-Christian land. I I could see having it benefits, right? But to have it as the as the policy of the official policy of the church is is dangerous.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:16

So and there there is a legitimate religious liberty that we Catholics uh believe, and and we need to keep that in mind too. That you know, in the medieval period, popes were very clear. I mean, I say the medieval medieval period because I think people would think, well, if there's any time period when the popes would be the most tyrannical and the most erroneous and whatnot, would be the medieval period. But in the medieval period, even you find many uh declarations by the popes that that are very clear. You cannot um force conversions by the sword.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:43

Where it gets interesting is um how does this apply, and this would be for another discussion, but how does this apply to those who are bound by covenantal obligations by baptism? Um, because that does change the analysis somewhat. That would be another discussion, but uh, but yeah, the church has always been crystal clear. You cannot go to a non-believer and convert them by the sword. That's completely illicit.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:05

Unless it's your wife, you're allowed to waterboard your wife until she converts.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:08

That's no, just have her mow a lawn, right? Not jokes about her, I'm joking jokes about you, what you would do.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:20

You wonder what's funny. Ever since we did that video, my whole YouTube feed is just popping up of people who cut their fingers out.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:28

Um, I feel horrible for your sister, but yeah, I generally agree that women and power power equipment don't mix.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:34

Um, well, just so Josh was talking about uh politics.

Marriage Education And Vice As Control

SPEAKER_02 1:14:38

Uh paragraph 22, um, Leo talks about masonry and politics. He says, then come their doctrines of politics, in which the naturalists lay down that all men have the same right and are in every as every respect of equal and like condition condition, that each one is naturally free, that no one has the right to command another, that it is an act of violence to require men to obey any authority other than that which is obtained from themselves. According to this, therefore, all things belong to the free people. Power is held by the command or permission of the people, so that when the popular will changes, rulers may lawfully be deposed, and the source of all rights and civil duties is either in the multitude or in the governing authority, when this is constituted according to the latest doctrines. It is held also that the state should be without God, that in the various forms of religion there is no reason why one should have precedence of another, and that they are all to occupy the same place.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:37

Yeah, Leo foresaw this whole like the the that once all of these governments no longer see Christ as king, because that was where it was headed, like they were they were starting off as all Protestants, so like you know, it starts off as rejecting the church's authority, but eventually he knew it would eventually become rejecting the authority of God Himself, and that it would lead to the dissolution of all of society. Before before, even that, though, Rob, I I in 20. This was one of my favorite parts of it. He said, For since generally no one is accustomed to obey crafty and clever men so submissively as those whose soul is weakened and broken down by the domination of the passions, there have been in this sect of Freemasons some who have plainly determined to propose that artfully and set and and of set purpose, the multitude should be satiated with a boundless license of vice. As when this had been done, it would easily come under the power and authority for any acts of daring. Like when a when a society is is mired in vice, they are susceptible to anything, they will fall for any nonsense because they're just like the lockdowns, like yeah. I mean, you think about what we would go to war for in previous generations and what they did to us during COVID, like that should have led to a revolt. But people are just trapped on their devices and they're just stuck in their horrific vice.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:04

Well, but there's a very there's a ontological reason for this because somebody who's trapped in vice has already been habituated to violating their conscience.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:14

And so when that when that there's a there's another quote in here, I don't know where it is, I won't take the time to find it, but from I think from Leo as well in another encyclical where um he does talk about a sort of climactic moment when I think I I I mean Monsignor Dylan explicitly says this is all leading to Antichrist, masonry, all the secret societies are ruled by a central directory, and that the chief of this directory proceeds in like a sort of dark apostolic succession, and that the final one will eventually be antichrist. And again, Leo 13th read this and endorsed and printed, you know, several thousand copies of it. Um, but um uh but the reason I mentioned that is because uh that's that's the plan. And um so when when that ultimate ask will come from Antichrist, people's wills will already have been vitiated by by being so you know uh drenched in vice.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:06

Yeah, we we we also got to touch on this because we did talk talk about it a little bit before, but what refers to domestic life and the teaching of the is almost all contained in the following declaration. Where is this, Anthony? Uh in the following declarations that marriage belongs to the genus of commercial contracts, which can rightly be revoked by the will of those who made them, and that the civil rulers of the state have power over the matrimonial bond, that in the education of young of youth, nothing is to be taught in the matter of religion religion as of certain and fixed opinion, and each one must be left at liberty to follow when he comes of age, whatever he may prefer. This is how many parents are infected with this today? Oh, I'm just going to let my kid choose what religion they're going to be, right? Like we've gotten away from the idea that we raise our children up in doctrine and indoctrinate our children properly, and we leave it to them to go grab these horrific ideas. And I'm gonna I you see it everywhere. I'm gonna let my child choose whatever they want to be. It's such a but but Catholic marriage and the state having rights over matrimonial bonds has led to the most just like catastrophic effects on civil society, like from from to the point where now we're talking about mutilating children's genitals.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:27

Well, all these quotes that you guys have been reading, uh the most recent ones talking about how all are perfectly equal, how none can exercise authority unless basically by consent, I mean, it leads directly to the eras of feminism and whatnot as well. Leads to egalitarianism in the family unit, which leads to universal suffrage, the idea that, you know, everybody's voice is equally entitled to a vote, which I personally think is absurd. Um, and um so uh, and and we're seeing as marriage has been degraded to just the level of a commercial contract, which is a core part of the um of the agenda. Look, I mean, look at what they're talking about now with with the artificial wombs and you know, people being, you know, some of the tech oligarch types saying people just be able to have sex purely for pleasure, and reproduction will be the sort of um, you know, engineered thing so we can screen out. You know, there was this big post of this guy who he and his wife aborted their child because of Down syndrome and whatnot. So, but a lot of this started, I mean, the uncomfortable truth is it started with Protestantism. Protestantism lowered the um status of marriage. Uh, I mean, despite all the hot air of supporting marriage, this, that, or the other. It lowered it from a sacrament to a natural bond. Um uh, you know, and and this is this is very significant. You can look in, I think it's William Bradford, his um his history of the Plymouth plantation. He was one of the early Puritans among the pilgrims. And he he openly gloats about this, that they made you know marriage uh, you know, part of the ministers of the state, ministers meaning, you know, you know, state officials, not not pastors per se. Um, and that it rightly fell under their their uh their uh jurisdiction. And he was obviously going against the Catholic idea that it was a sacrament under the authority of the church. Um so yeah, this all this all goes back very, very far. It progressed in centuries, and then it started progressing faster and faster.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:18

So um, well, the thing is we're coming up on an hour and 20, Rob, and I don't want to keep these too long. Is there anything uh that you thought was important to highlight in that encyclical before we jump over to locals?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:31

Uh let me take a look here.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:34

Um, I did think it was interesting in the Monty Nerdland book in chapter two. Um, it says, uh, as the as the 18th century opened, it's it disclosed the world suffering from a multitude of evils, the so-called Reformation, which arose and continued to progress during the two preceding centuries, had well nigh run its course and had ceased to be a persecuting force on the continent, and only for reasons of plunder continued to use weapons of oppression in Ireland. Scarcely a shred of the original doctrines of the church were to be observed amongst his followers. Malignant hatred of the spouse of Christ continued when the reasons alleged for the malignity had departed. Amidst the multitude at the time, calling themselves Protestants, little remains certain in Christian belief.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:21

Well, it's the rebellion of Korah, which St. Jude warns against. It's the same principle of egalitarianism there's no there's no hierarchy, um, right? It's a priesthood of all believers. And if you study the story of Korah, I think it's in numbers 16. Um, they basically say to Moses and Aaron, Who are you to say that you're any higher than the rest of us, right? That there's this ministerial priesthood. Um, and God swallowed them up. And then later on in numbers 17 and 18, God affirms the Levitical priesthood. Anyway, so this all goes very, if I can make one other quick, quick point is that because this relates very much to the civilizational aspect of all this, I've made the point on your guys' show a number of times over the last few years, you know, when people talk about, you know, issues with um uh the old covenant people and whatnot. Um this issue, to the extent you're able to address it in a fully Catholic and Christian way, um, was made impossible at civilizational scale once baptism was no longer the bond of full citizenship. Um, and and and so you know, one of the things that the French Revolution did was Jewish emancipation, which had never happened before. And so Jews were entitled to the full rights of citizenship, um, which essentially meant that baptism was no longer um considered the premier mark of union among Christians. Think about that. Now, of course, that started even earlier. It's not just a Jewish thing, it goes back to the ref the so-called Reformation, the revolt, um, because Christian baptism at that point should have been sufficient to obligate you to the duties of obedience to the apostolic hierarchy and everybody getting on the same page and whatnot, but it wasn't. So again, it started, it was a it was a nugget in the in the so-called Reformation, um, and it it sort of blossomed into a society where in the cut in the US Constitution there's no religious tests and whatnot. And what that means is that the oath, you know, when we're all baptized, whether as children or later on as adults, we take either through our godparents or through ourselves, we take a series of oaths, right? And so that oath was the bond of a Christian society, baptism. And yeah, that Christian society had the leeway to tolerate non-Christians, to show them love and care, to make sure they were protected. That was papal policy toward the Jews for millennia, despite the fact that, yeah, there were some evil Catholics who disobeyed that. But that was papal policy for millennia. Uh, ironically, it was Martin Luther who said, burn them all down, kill them all, murder them all, you know. So he, you know, that was he was very different than what the popes were saying. Um, but once we decided that the oaths that would unite society would go from the supernatural to the natural, that's sort of the naturalism that Leo the 13th is talking about. So anyway, just a thought.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:59

Uh I have some bad news, Anthony. What's that? Locals is down. Like actually down? Yep. I cannot get to the website at all. Other people are saying the same thing. I'm

Locals Outage And Tip Jar

SPEAKER_02 1:25:10

on downdetector.com and they're saying locals is down.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:14

Oh, that's thanks. So people aren't watching on locals right now. Um I wanted to talk about um Carmelo Anthony tonight. I mean, we could do it over here. We could, yeah. Could do it over here.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:27

Can anyone else can other people try to get on locals? See if they can get on. I'm gonna try why don't you try to try from your computer, Ant?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:38

I am right now. It just comes up saying, oops, something went wrong. Yeah, error, uncaught client exception. Hmm. Yeah, right now, yeah. Uh Josh, do you want to stick around for the Carmelo Anthony combo or you wanna you gotta go? Oh boy. Really? Are you are you that uh like out of the loop of the the big the big trial? Yes, gladly. The cultural conversation right now of uh Carmelo Anthony who murdered Austin Metcalf. Uh oh, in Texas, yes, in Texas.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:11

Oh, I didn't know, I didn't hear what happened.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:12

No, uh Carmelo Anthony was found guilty today. So all right, I guess we'll do it over here. But Josh, you could you can stay or go.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:18

You you know you're no, that's not really my wheelhouse. I thank you guys for covering the book a little bit. So love what you guys are doing. Congrats on exceeding a hundred thousand, well deserved.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:28

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:29

So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:31

Yeah, also uh Nancy, your sister is coming on next Thursday. Yeah. Um, and we wanted to get her on before the end of Pride Month. I want to just check in on her and see how she's doing, uh, being in the church and a church that seems so hostile to those people with same-sex attraction who are trying to live a chaste life.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:49

Yeah, we're very proud of her. I I know she's one of the few women that gets a pass from you for for we give two women a pass.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:56

We give Catherine from Catholic Unscripted and your sister.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:59

Yep, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:01

Well, she's great. And we're hoping Nancy gives us a little inside gossip about Josh. I'm gonna find out what kind of boss Josh is. I gotta need some dirt, need some dirt on my pal Josh. Good luck. Uh, many people say the best interview that she had ever given was on our channel. I'm just saying, if we asked some good questions. So um, all right, Josh, thanks you. Thank you for coming, man. Thank you guys. Thanks, Josh. Have a good night. Bye-bye. Um, for everybody else, uh, if before we cut over to Carmelo, because I've definitely got to talk about this. Uh, if you guys want to leave us a tip for the series, it would help because these shows never do well. So uh Rob put a little tip jar up on our website. If you guys want to throw us two, three bucks.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:45

Yeah, just go to avoidingbabylon.com or uh scan the code.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:51

Or scan that to donate. Two bucks, three bucks. We'd help with anything. Anything helps.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:55

Um, some people are saying it's working, but it sounds like it sounds like the app. might be working. But I know I can't websites not. I still can't get on the website. So I couldn't see the chat right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:07

I'd much rather be uh on locals, but if we gotta do it here, we gotta do it here.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:14

I mean I can't I couldn't even get on locals to click the button that makes it supporters only. Bobby's always a good supporter.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:28

Yes Bobby is always a good supporter. He's trying to buy Mrs.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:33

Casey's a boomer keyword codes are demonic.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:39

Yeah I don't know I'm not I don't think I could get it on the app either so it's yeah this whatever we'll just do it here. Um

Carmelo Anthony Verdict And Media Spin

SPEAKER_03 1:28:48

yeah because I alright let's see on the uh uh my app has I haven't used it in so long it's been even down so for all you YouTube guys who who do not join locals you will be getting a local show tonight so we would appreciate if you donated like at least a buck or two guys all right so this is not a locals member come on please guys um all right so wait let me pull up uh clear browser cookies to get into locals so if I do it from uh an incognito window that should work there's a couple things we also got jd vance talking to um what's his name uh from Fox News that annoying guy talking about Catholicism and why he converted but I okay I I am in I am into locals now what do you want to do you want to stay over here well do you know how to do you know how to clear browser cookies uh probably not while I'm on here not um but will other people be able to get on locals uh uh you guys gotta tell us if you can get over there I don't know what do you think I really don't want to clear my browser cookies right now yeah no we don't have to do that we'll stay here all right so Rob and I watched the most liberal insane feed of the Carmelo Anthony I would not have thought court tv would be worse than MSNBC it was so bad man I think I did send a clip uh it's the last one I sent you want to play that clip real quick yeah the the last one or the the court tv panel meltdown tv one the the second to last one this was I think you and I listened to this part live yeah we listened to this live and we were just sighing like text I was like I was like I'm so happy you're listening to this right now because this is absolutely insane I would not have believed you if you if I hadn't been you know watching it I mean this do you want to give a a brief for anyone who doesn't know what what's okay so Carmelo Anthony's story yeah for anybody that doesn't know so Carmelo Anthony black teenager you see on screen uh was at a track meet in Texas he went into 35 years they gave him 35 years wow 35 years in prison is that 35 to life or no 35 so just 35 he'll probably be eligible for parole after 2025 2025 years or something look so black teenager you see on screen he was at a track meet at a different school he walked over to the tent of the other team which is not allowed he walked over went into the tent all the team members and anybody staying around told him to leave he refused to leave uh he said make me leave so Austin Metcalf went down and said come on man you gotta leave he said make me leave and see what happens and Austin Metcalf just put his hands on him didn't like attack him or anything just kind of put his hands on him said come on man you got to go Carmelo Anthony pulled out a knife stabbed him in the chest took him out got his heart got him right in the heart kid died on the spot you know Carmelo Anthony just tossed the knife on the ground and or like tossed the knife to hide it or something then his mom came and his mom tried to hide the evidence all this all this crazy stuff that happened but there's a couple of things I'm curious about let's play this clip real quick and then I want to ask you a couple things I mean this is I'm questioning the jury I had to ask them well how did you reach your verdict?

SPEAKER_05 1:32:30

How'd you reach it so quickly? What happened it was a four inch knife he used it one time he was he was pushed I'm not saying that part it was a four inch knife he only used it one time it's like what the well the I want to discuss the the liberal media's reaction to this but it was a nine millimeter pistol he only shot it one time yeah man it was like it was right but what are you what are you doing? How did you get this verdict I'd want to know my my whole identity as a defense attorney would be in question right I'd be quite I'm questioning my identity right now and I have nothing to do with this case how could you how could you come back like that I would be enraged I'm enraged right now this is very upsetting and then on top of it to compound it this dumb judge didn't allow cameras in the courtroom what was your wisdom what were you thinking how you put on a robe are you that much of an imbecile that you won't let cameras in the courtroom in a case like this yeah how is court TV supposed to make money if you don't let their cameras in the courtroom the the the the judge didn't want a freaking circus in his courtroom like the the the the judge was trying to give this kid the most fair trial he could by not making it a media circus so he says no no no cameras in the courtroom um of Father McDonald's saying he's able to watch from locals via Apple TV yeah whatever we're doing it here um the um he didn't want a circus going on in his courtroom so he said to you know to to to get the cameras out of there the way people are reacting uh I heard one guy say um uh the there's there's the people there who are supporting Austin Metcalf they should just leave they won now why are they even there anymore you why do you have to rub it in it's like if the if the situation was the other way around and Carmelo Anthony had won would he be telling this his supporters to leave oh you won what are you standing around there for right no way of course not these people are acting like this kid was an innocent kid who did nothing wrong he took the life of another person for absolutely no reason like he he just killed the kid in cold blood for absolutely no reason the mother and father the mother and father that this kid this of of Austin of no no no the yeah there's a couple things going on the mother the the father of Austin Metcalf right off the bat came out and was like offering his sympathy for the mother of Carmelo Anthony saying he forgave Carmelo Anthony right off the bat like right when this happened everybody was like outraged man alive yeah like everybody was like outraged by this right the the mother of Carmelo Anthony they raised they raised like six or seven hundred thousand dollars for this kid's legal nine hundred thousand for this kid's legal defense the parents went and bought themselves a new BMW they went and bought themselves a new Cadillac truck they went and rented they're renting a nine hundred thousand dollar mansion that's right sorry yeah so they write raised five hundred thousand yeah I think it was I think it was six hundred grand they raised they go and and rent this gated this mansion in a gated community buy themselves two cars and they leave Carmelo Anthony with a public defender can you imagine how pissed off you'd be if you're one of the people in the gated community you're like the people we pay to keep out of here are now inside the fence dude but think about what selfish scummy people his parents are his parents absolute awful people look and I'll say the same thing about that girl Sherilla who killed killed her boyfriend in the car did you see that that that crash documentary yeah I didn't see the documentary but I know what you're talking about this girl went and crashed her car killed the boyfriend on purpose and the parents instead of like trying to get this girl to learn some lesson from this and maybe come at you they gassed her up and made her and telling her she did nothing wrong it's like psychotic behavior to do like this kid threw his whole life away by stabbing another kid for absolutely no reason the parents are they're disgusting human beings the two of them like the only thing that would make this verdict any better is if the parents were locked up in prison also what I'm curious about because I have a I have a couple of questions like first off how did they get an all white jury they it wasn't all white there were just no blacks so I think there were probably some latina like Latinos on the jury how did they but it wasn't how did they pull that off well so I've heard one in jury selection one of the the three black potential jurors was asked if he uh could if he would if he could find another black guilty and he said something along the lines of I would feel bad for putting a a brother in prison so that basically gave the prosecution immediate cause to to yeah to get rid of him and then the other I think all three of them were teachers and you know the the the prosecution well both sides there's a certain number of jurors they can uh potentially jurors that they can strike for no reason at all yeah right so three the the three that the prosecution struck were were all black um but they were also all teachers and um teachers often have a hard time finding you know students or people of student age guilty for crimes the jury selection used genome tricks how would you feel if you didn't know yeah you ruined that would have been such a good line you ruined it oh my goodness what the what the what the prosecution did is they played a very short high pitch beep and anyone that anyone that didn't hear it out right away I had a fight with the guy at the gas station we get gas out at work because for three months that freaking that that fire alarm chirp was going off I'm like bro if you don't put batteries in that fire alarm I'm calling the fire department and I'm having you arrested for three months surprised you didn't buy batteries and go put them in your cell it was an Indian guy too I was like I guess the Indians don't hear the chirp either um so all right so an all-white jury now here's what worries me about juries yeah okay so three jurors are allowed okay so three jurors are allowed to be rejected by either side yes for no reason here here's my worry about juries yep is that they're supposed to just be a random selection from the jury pool but because we allow so much personal information on our phones these days I really do worry that the government can give can narrow down the that random selection to a very like very uh they like they know what which way people are going to vote in a jury pool before they're even in there.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:41

I mean okay a lot of this stuff like this isn't like a federal court right like this is a lot of times these are are county courts and like yeah your average county has a has a hard time you know making sure the streets are plowed I I guess I'm not worried their secret masterminds looking through all my social media federal is way more worrisome though because federal now you got intel agencies involved if you're talking about trial for treason sure I get I get it no like even Derek Chauvin on hit on his like I think they knew they wanted a certain outcome on chauvin's trial even though that was state too right because he got connected state and federal but um but yeah Minneapolis is way different than wherever in Texas yeah the genetic makeup of that ocean realizes he's not the only black person that listens to our show no I think most of our audiences not most but we have a very significant non-white there is a uh greater than average percentage of um of Latino and Asian guys that watch our show wearing wife beaters yeah we're good dudes man we don't care like oh I love them I don't uh the Indian base of A Bunno I don't I don't care too much like about that stuff but um I do think uh I I worry about jury selections and stuff because look it does it all I'm saying is they kind of picked the perfect recipe for unrest an all white jury convicts the black guy gets him guilty of the most serious charge and gives them the harshest penalty like it's because you know people don't actually listen to especially because it wasn't allowed to be filmed right so there's no clips of the of the witness testimony it's like if you want to know what happened you have to go and read witness testimony and we know certain segments of the population ain't reading witness testimony it's all I'm saying it's basically seems like the perfect recipe to cause unrest now do you think there will be civil unrest from this I don't I don't think it's a good case for it but yes and no like there will be some right but um I I think you're right I don't think it uh it's not gonna have legs like I don't think your your leftist democrat um institutional funding engines are gonna put a ton of money behind you know any unrest here um I think way too many people just see this for what it is and it was an open and shut case it really was I mean even though even the even the defense called witnesses who just tripped up on their stories totally and completely even even the things they were getting away with like the prosecutor was getting away asking witnesses on the stand do you think this was self-defense or murder is like that's a legal conclusion you can't you're not supposed to ask that in the and it's a kid it's an 18 year old kid like no this was definitely murder and like the judge allowed it it was just wild what was allowed to be said yeah I I think we'll see way more unrest in Ireland and England than we will here in the US yeah they're also dealing with a lot worse crap than we are like what we're dealing with is like convicting a murderer they're talking about a freaking immigrant hacking a person to you know what I mean like this yeah look Europe is in way a way more precarious situation than we are in America even though we've let in probably 10 times more immigrants than Europe has we just have the ability to absorb it better because we are such a humongous country like yeah yeah yeah I mean uh I think I I forget the exact numbers but like Ireland had like the population of Minnesota you know like five million and like they've let in like a million or more immigrants he's talking 20 25% of your population is just foreigners now right like if I thought the the Somali ghetto in you know 100,000 Somalis in Minneapolis was bad Ireland has it way worse and uh yeah I mean we we talked about the Henry Novak stuff over on Guns and Rosary last week and I'm sure on this week we'll probably be talking about the the new stuff in Belfast. Oh Belfast instead of Carmelo Anthony probably I mean I I yeah we're seeing the the IRA which is you know the Catholic paramilitary in Ireland more or less not uniting but working with like the uh the Ulster volunteer force which is like the the Protestant paramilitary in Ireland you know these are groups that fought each other for for decades now they're working together to protest the the crap going on over like you had a Sudanese immigrant that might actually unite Ireland let me tell you something man something's gonna set white people off eventually because eventually they're gonna say we've had it and it's getting to that point right we talk about it in America as having fatigue but many places in Europe man talking about Ireland England those people are capable of like murder on a scale he can't comprehend when they put their minds to it you know it's like if they really do decide hey we're going to war for this cause there's gonna be problem play the uh play the play the second um the the last one that I that I threw up in there this is wild like this is this is this is what I'm talking about with the tensions like they're purposely trying to brew up tensions in this country because this is just the most ignorant crap I've ever ever heard I speak on behalf of myself Minister Dominique Alexander I speak on behalf of myself as president of the next generation action network the next generation action network wanted to respect this process to be able to make sure that nobody said that the next generation action network is structured this if you're gonna use your the name of your organization so many times in a row can you make it shorter you should not pronounce it right interfered in this process but what shown that black lives do not matter in Collin County it showed us that time and time in American history it has shown us to remove emotions from yet the law from what this trial showed that it put emotions over the law after Trayvon Martin and so many countless names it has shown us that black life is not safe in Collin County it was a white kid that's not safe what are you talking about the black kid is safe and alive and his mom's going to be able to visit him in prison anytime she wants she will still have her son and I mean let's be honest that's largely the way it's been for six decades at this point like the number of of white people murdered by black people is way higher than the opposite way higher than let's not it's just the look sometimes stuff goes like this yeah like exactly like if if if it was so dangerous how could he stand there and say such things would he not be fearing for his life it's just total insanity I mean you go back look you go back to the OJ trial he got away with killing his wife you know I mean like every once in a while it goes one way sometimes you never really you really never know what's gonna happen in these jury rooms right this could have easily been a hung jury all it took was one person one person just doesn't go along with it now you got a hung jury and a mistrial it's just the there are some people who make money off of provoking tension right and it's just these these like these are the uh the the preeminent grifters of our time yeah it's just uh he's just trying to be the next Al Sharpton in general yeah the race grifters of our time trying to build tension in this country but all I'm saying is I don't think they want a race war man like you really don't want well okay but here's the question what side do the Italians join in on oh stop it stop it white people be begging the mob to come and help you it's just nuts man yeah like got Casey Anthony got away with killing her two year old baby like you just really never know what's gonna happen in these courtrooms it's really if if you could pick the right jury man you could jury picking a jury is is is as important as you know presenting a case I just I don't know man like this was a very quick trial it seemed like the defense really had nothing to work with no uh absolutely nothing that I mean they couldn't even find like uh they couldn't pay uh you know uh use of force um expert even to to you know because I'm sure all the use of force experts are like nope sorry I'm not saying any I'm not saying anything like that because it's wrong it's it's just this was just such a clear clear case of like he provoked it it's the same thing with Chud the builder right like Chud the builder he he can't claim self defense when he goes out provoking people like that's not a case of self defense I mean maybe that individual I think in this individual case it actually is sounding like it maybe but self defense but this is this is My point with juries you get one or two black people on that jury, and our nation is so divided on racial lines at this point, especially black people. Black people really only see color, right? You get them on the jury and you show them, especially if the judge allows his previous content to be admissible, which it very well could be, because that's kind of what the like the the kid the guy who got shot is gonna say I was provoked by previous things the guy had said.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:28

Well, the so the guy who got shot had been stalking him and threatening him for a while.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:34

Yeah. Dude, it's it's just a case where our the way our country, I'm amazed that Carmelo Anthony got convicted. I really am. It is it is, yeah. Because they put that on the table. Like they put that as an option on the table to the jury, and they were like, look, if you don't think he committed murder, we'll give the lesser degree, which means like the in like he killed him, but without the intent to kill him. But no, they hit him with murder, man. Which they should have.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:19

I I think I think I think things right, you know, I think fatigue is at an all-time high, and uh, I think things really are turning culturally, potentially.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:30

I

Dating Marriage And Cultural Whiplash

SPEAKER_03 1:51:31

hope so, man. Like, I just want like the pendulum swings back and forth, right? Like there you you had you had a period of time where the blacks really did have it pretty freaking bad in this country, and then instead of things evening out, the freaking pendulum swung all the way the other way.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:48

And now that now the danger is how far it might swing the opposite direction.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:52

And the same thing's going, the same thing goes with feminism and everything, too. Like the pendulum. You see the way, like, you see the way young men are talking about women, and some of it I'm just like like, especially early on when this stuff was starting to get brought up, like when the red pill movement was starting to talk about the stuff, Tim Gordon was talking about this stuff. It was like it was really interesting stuff, and it was it was important that we were all made aware of the propaganda we were fed for how long, right? I'm black and bad, black. Like we were all fed a ton of propaganda. So instead of the correction being, okay, let's wake up and not fall for the propaganda anymore, the correction is going where, like some of the some of the stories you hear about guys and girls going out on dates, like guys are going on dates and like throwing out lines they're hearing on these podcasts at these girls. Like, there's not it's not correcting to a proper relationship between men and women, which is what you would hope for. It's like, all right, well, it went that way. Let's try to correct it and and bring it to a proper relationship between men and women. It's turning into men just having vitriol and hatred for women.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:00

I mean, I understand it more and more every day. Like, I, you know, I have a coworker buddy who is going through a mess right now, and uh I uh and he he's got um you know he's got a son involved in it, and like his kid is gonna end up with just the worst, you know, the the worst idea of women in the world because of of what's going on. And uh I I can't even blame him at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:30

And he's gonna have a horrible idea of his own father because she's gonna poison the kid against him.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:35

It's uh I I don't know. I I think I think the the I think guys, you know, especially on the internet these days, I I think they'll see see past that, but that will just further poison the image of the mother, yeah, and of women in general.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:52

It's hard not to be poisoned against them when the whole system is set up to destroy men, like it really is set up that way. But you you hope you hope that because like I know it's possible, I know it's possible to have a healthy relationship with your wife. I know it's possible to, but it's yeah, I mean, obviously, you and I do so so like the possibility is there, like you don't need to to wind up with one of these psychotic feminists, but I don't know what the answer is because a lot of us, including us, like we were we were brainwashed by this stuff too. You're just born into it, like there, this whole idea that um everybody's always telling men like what they need to do to be better men, but nobody ever tells women what they need to do to be better women, like when when you ask the second you bring that up, they oh my gosh, they freak out, right? Like, there's like what what are a woman's duties? You don't you don't hear about that, but we're constantly hearing, you know, young boys were telling young boys you need to man up. Uh, I need to make a man out of him. Nobody really ever says, I need to make a woman out of you, but they should be making women out of women, yeah, right? Like, other women should be making women out of girls and like showing them what it means to be a feminine woman. It's just I think it's just generation after generation who's so broken from this stuff, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:19

And so much of it is uh it goes back to the the stuff we were talking about tonight with with the Freemasonic ideal of you know equality and and everything and things like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:32

Man, they have just totally gutted our culture and our society and our church in every way. Like we are I'm telling you, man, if you guys, if you guys can find I I think I think uh I think the the key to finding a good woman for men is to find a girl a woman with a good temperament, like a gentle disposition, uh not bitter and angry and and has a chip on her shoulder and all that stuff. You know, there's some girls who are just too far gone from feminism, but there are still like gentle women out there who will follow your lead. You just have to find them. It's just they're they're harder to find. And women, you need to find a man who wants to lead. Like when you when you find the right dynamic, it works well, but it's it's tricky to find, man. You guys gotta, you know, go go through it to find the right person.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:23

I think uh I think what we're seeing with the this encyclical series, at least what I'm what I'm seeing, is the the forces against the church tried for you know 1,500 years to to attack the church directly, and they failed miserably each and every time, right? I mean uh even the Protestant Revolution in a sense almost failed, except the Protestant Revolution had got enough political power, you know, and enough enough power in society uh to where to where the Enlightenment could take root in some of these areas, and and the Enlightenment realized that instead of attacking the church, you degrade society and culture and and and political life first. And and we're seeing now that the popes, you know, that we're 50 years into this, and for all 50 of those years, the popes are scrambling, trying to do anything possible to try to stem this tide, but they're doing it without any help from the states. They're you know, the states are actually working against them and and and literally conquering the papal states, and and the popes as as much as they try to try to change things and figure something out. I mean, we know they failed because we're in the world we're in right now, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:48

And and I don't know does that mean that to now fix the church, we have to almost as lay people fix society and fix culture first so that future priests can can be raised in a better culture, especially because we really church, we don't have any like actual say in the church, right? Like, like at least nor should we even really yeah, like at least you have say over your local like township or whatever you you know, whatever local locality, like you can work on that, and you can work on your parish, like you got you have we have to just think locally, but not in the gay no no, not at all, but like in reality, you need to just work on your local level and on your parish, and uh and ocean kind of said like a vague advice from Unk, right? Um, here's the thing. Uh first off, learn how to spell vague, you know. He's working against a lot of genetics there, but he's not wrong, right? It is kind of vague advice. But here's the thing I'm I'm trying to get away from seeing because I have a good situation, going, well, everybody should be able to do it. Like, I'm I'm I'm trying because I too many guys do that where they're like, it's go oh, I did it, so you should be able to do X, Y, and Z.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:09

And it's like I in my home, it's like those people who have a unicorn Novus Ordo, think everyone.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:15

I I have a unicorn marriage, right? Like, I'm able to work and provide for my wife. My wife doesn't have to work, my wife was a stay-at-home mom, she raised our child. Like, but I don't want to put say I'm the standard for you guys. Like, I I don't know what the answer is, but I also don't want to blackpill you guys on hope for a relationship because I don't wish loneliness and being alone on anyone, and I'm not gonna go down the Pearl Davis or whatever the hell her name is, Pearly things route, and just tell you women are awful and marriage is garbage, don't ever do it. Because the reward for finding a good woman and getting married is beyond anything you can imagine. Like it's just I mean, I come home from work and I have a wife who's in my backyard gardening and humming, and she's happy. And it's like I I there's nothing that will actually make a man happier than to come home to a cheerful woman, like that that's all you want. You just want to come home to with somebody who's not mad and bitching and complaining, and she's cheerful. So if you can come home to something like that, it's like one of the greatest treasures on earth that you can find. So there are there are women like that out there, they're not like Pearl, like Pearl's not her, you know, but there are women with good temperaments who are looking to follow a man's lead. You just have to find the right one, you're gonna have to look around a little bit. Bobby said, You need more, you need more sisters to introduce the boys to.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:43

I got anyone's looking for a woman with six and a half fingers. Anthony has a sister for you. She can't even flick you off properly.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:55

Uh you got a couple daughters coming up, man. You know, I gotta find mates for my daughters. We were actually talking at uh I work with a couple of guys, real, real guineas, but these guys never would have met a chick on their own in their lives, and they're in arranged marriages, like they're like I work with a couple of guys who was so like I mean, I I hate to use the Gen Z word Riz, but like these guys have zero Riz, like none whatsoever. And they didn't never ever ever ever met a girl, but their families went, You're gonna link up with this one, you're gonna link up with this one, and they have pretty wives now because of it. It's like might have to go back to that.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:37

I don't know if it's you know, I I think I think you're right. Uh, I mean, not in like the arranged marriage, uh, like Indian sort of sense, but like in a world where it's on one hand, should be so easy to make connections, it's way hard, way, way, you know, way more hard to make connections than you would think. And I think we as parents are going to have to help our children with that, especially because we should ideally have a better uh sense of discernment for who might work for our children.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:15

Right, all right. So, so what body count would I accept? Um, I think you should look for someone with a similar body count to yours, right? Like you guys are unrealistic to do otherwise, really, especially if you guys are getting older, right? Like if you're in your late 20s or early 30s or something, like you're not finding a virgin, man. Get that out of your head. Like, it's it's a it's actually like insane to even think that. So you're going to find someone that might have made a mistake or two, but you know, they're not they. I mean, you don't want to marry an OnlyFans chick, obviously. You don't want to marry a girl who's you know 20 guys, but it I would say in in that situation, you know, it's less important.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:59

Like, what's more important what is their recent body count? Yeah, and that should be zero. You know what I mean? Like, they should be repenting of that past behavior and and and looking to yeah, and I'm not saying save the whores or anything, guys.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:14

That's not that's not I'm not like I'm obviously not saying that. I'm saying like this expectation you're gonna have at your 27 years old, and these women grew up in the same culture you did, and yeah, they probably made a couple of mistakes. Like, you can't, you can't, I mean, you could be alone for the rest of your life because I don't know what you think you're gonna find. And I'm not look, I'm I'm saying this to you guys because uh you know, like it's not it's not a world I live in. But I don't think I don't think you guys are gonna, you know, if you keep listening to guys who are telling you you gotta find a girl with nobody's like that depends your age. I mean, if you meet somebody in high school, you're great. If you meet somebody in your 20s, it's gonna be a harder and harder thing to do. I wouldn't go and meet a chick at a bar who's walking out with any guy that hits on her. I mean, you gotta you gotta use discernment. But if you don't think people meet people at bars anymore, to be honest. Whatever. But if you if you slept with four or five people and then you come to Christ, and then what you're looking for a virgin? Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:13

Like, you guys gotta be a little more realistic. Especially uh, I mean, especially, I mean, so many uh men, so many Gen Z men talk about how we live in uh a wo a world of uh hypergamy, right? Where uh where women have tend to get a lot more men than men get women, so in that in that sense the world you're gonna have women are gonna have a lot more sexual partners than most men if we actually live in that world. So it's crazy to expect the virginity. But if this is the case, that's awesome, right? Uh Kevin. If there are plenty, then why is it so hard to find?

SPEAKER_03 2:04:53

I don't think it's necessarily true. There are plenty of good Catholic girls in their 20s that are virgin, and I hope that for all of you, I really do. But I'm just saying, be realistic. Like, and like I don't know, like the and I I don't know. I'm just trying not to blackpail you guys. I don't have to worry about this stuff. This isn't even in my, you know, this is not something I deal with. People nowadays go on nothing but first dates with people, they're meeting for the first time, whether it's that's probably on apps, things like that, right? First dates with people they have no previous connection with because they don't talk to people in real life. Like, yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know, like I I think you do we do live in a time where you have to try to, if you know somebody who's single, and you know, you know, good like I like I knew Bobby and my sister would be a good match, so I made my I invited Bobby over and he was staying with me for the weekend, and I made my sister come over. I was like, just come over. Like, I didn't I didn't really like make a thing of it. I was just I knew they'd hit it off. You were making a thing of it in the background, in the background, but not to my sister.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:56

Yeah, I didn't like tell my sister to your sister or Bobby. I was just like you're like, Oh, I'm gonna get these two married.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:03

Yeah, I I knew I knew it would be a good match, so it worked, you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:06

But yeah, it's I looked absolutely do not be like me, do not do what I did.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:13

Yeah, well, that's what I'm trying to, that's what I'm trying to avoid, right? Like, um I I don't want to hold people to I don't want to set myself as the standard you all have to live up to. I caught the last chopper out of Nam. I married my high school sweetheart. Like, that's not always the case. And we grew up together, right? Like we grew up together, like we when you grow up together, like you you become adults together, and you know, you see the messiness of the relationship through your really rough time when you're young, and then you have a foundation. So when hard times come, it's like, all right, well, we have this foundation to rest on when things hit the fan a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:51

So yeah, but every time he does that, just remember the story about him totaling the rental car that was rented for him by uh a friend's mother.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:02

I uh I didn't have I didn't have a squeaky clean childhood, man. But I'm just saying, like I I just don't want you guys blackpilling if you don't meet, you know, your trad wife right off the bat. Like I honestly think you might be better off just going and finding some normie chick and and converting her. Sometimes they're they're not as tricky as the Catholic girl who's a know-it-all.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:35

Okay, but you the fact that he survived it is more surprising than many people's junior high school cheating episodes because there was legitimate fell like potential felonies and car accidents involved.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:49

See, look, she married she married a wonderful man, she met in a bar, he converted me. Like these things that look, you don't know where God's gonna throw your your spouse at you, like you just don't know where where that's going to happen. God has God has plans on your life. Go and go and beg him for your for a good spouse, good and holy spouse. And uh, yeah, like your first step is to to be a good solid Catholic man, right? That is your first step.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:15

Hold on. Is this for real?

SPEAKER_03 2:08:17

Because that's hilarious. Wait, is this is that a serious?

SPEAKER_02 2:08:24

I don't know. I I'm hoping that would be amazing.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:28

How funny would that be? How do you know where I live? How do you know who my neighbor is?

SPEAKER_02 2:08:34

Well, I mean, I've seen you throw your address out online. That is true. Wait, hold on. For real? Is that one of your neighbors? Wait, how to be fair, now you walk in a doctor's office and people recognize your voice, so how do they know that that's my neighbor?

SPEAKER_03 2:09:05

I don't even know if that's my neighbor. I know the name.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:10

I imagine I could throw out any Italian name and you would say you know it. Yeah, that is true. I do I do know what Evans Otto.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:19

I'm curious if that's a real thing. That's true. Honestly.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:26

Shut it down, Shmuel. We're getting too big.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:32

I don't my wife knows the neighbors, but I don't know their last names and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:35

Well, here's the thing a guy might live next to another guy for 40 years, never ask that other guy's last name, but still be very good friends with him.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:44

Yeah. Um because he's marrying her, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:54

It's fight her plate activate. Yeah, you can see the move.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:59

I saw that happen. He's like, wait a minute. They hear us, they hear us singing uh gather us in every Sunday morning when I wake my kids up, and then I'm bound is exploding. This is true. I'm pretty sure that uh I'm pretty sure this is true. But uh yeah. Uh you want to play as we head out, we'll play the um the Vance clip?

JD Vance On Converting To Catholicism

SPEAKER_02 2:10:36

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:37

Play the Vance Clip, it's pretty good. Like you literally want me to play it as an outro, or are we gonna talk about it? No, no, no. Play it, we'll comment on it. Jesse Waters' comment is interesting at the end. More than Vance.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:02

You know, for me, what attracted me to Catholicism was there there was this sense of rootedness in it. It seemed like the world was changing so fast. You know, you go on social media and you scroll, and everything is different, and there are a whole host of new technologies and ways of communicating. It just felt, you know, this was back in 2015, 2016, it felt like the world was changing so fast. And what I loved about Catholicism is that you had this beautiful ancient church, and you had all of these traditions that were very firmly rooted, some of which went back literally thousands of years. And I just really loved that sense of tradition. And I also think, you know, Jesse, it's it's possible sometimes to think too much about this stuff. The the reality is that it was very felt for me that when I went to a Catholic church, I felt at home that a lot of the Christians that I knew, you know, I mentioned I was sort of on this journey of how to be a good husband, how to be a good father. A lot of the Christians, like my uncle, who were really Good husbands, really good followers. You know, these were people who had been formed in the Catholic Church. And so after a lot of soul searching, that's just what felt like home to me. And, you know, it's interesting because there are so many Catholics I know who are great Christians. There's so many Protestants I know who are great Christians. And I think one of the things that is so great about the American church, Catholics and Protestants, is that there's real this real dynamism that comes from Catholics and Protestants debating some of these issues and figuring out these issues together. And uh certainly has been true for me that while I made my home in the Catholic Church, some of my best friends and some of the most influential people I've met in the church have been Protestants. So I think that's going to continue to be true. But I love that the American church, I think, borrows from both the Catholic and the Protestants. And I think we're all learning a lot about God in the process, and that's the whole point. Well, I'm Protestant, and my wife is kind of trying to get me to convert to Catholicism. I'm not there yet. Uh maybe I'll get there one day. We'll we'll see how it plays out. We'll talk, Jesse. We'll talk. Right.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:06

Pray for Jesse Waters and Vance's wife. We got JD Vance and Jesse Waters' wife, both married to heathens that need to convert. So yeah, I don't uh well look, I'll say this. I remember thinking I was gonna convince my wife to be Catholic through argument, and it didn't work that way. Like it took other things for my wife to become Catholic, but it definitely wasn't my argumentative skills. So you're not gonna argue your your your wife into something. So if Vance's wife, you know, we joke about proselytizing our uh our spouses, but he should just be a good Catholic, which he's you know, it's gotta be a good one. And yeah, and then Mrs. Casey's brother, yeah. Mrs. Casey's brother. Look, it's you know, people there's a lot of people married to spouses who aren't Catholic, and that's probably one of the hardest things to live through where your spouse is not doesn't believe the same thing, then your your whole life is worrying about their soul. So ocean, you're worried about getting married at 18. How about joining OCIA by 18? Because I know you have not officially become Catholic yet. So stop worrying about a wife, LARP, yeah. Start getting worried about getting baptized, kid. That's what we want to see. Um learning about God in the process. I'm too busy looking for a Swedish au pair to look for a wife.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:41

No, Ocean, when they baptize you, make sure they get your forehead because I don't know if it's getting through your hair. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:53

Uh yeah, for those of you who don't know, Ocean is a little Protestant kid who we gave a free locals membership to, hoping, hoping that we could pressure him into converting.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:01

Imagine that. The white never mind. Never mind.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:07

We love you, Ocean. Uh John Lane, if you're really marrying my my neighbor and you're a Long Island boy, come say hello at church. Let me know who you are.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:16

He's gonna show up at the next time you grill.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:22

Your parents hate Catholicism. Okay. So what? You don't. Oh, he's in Philly, he's not marrying my neighbor. That's bum. He had me worried there for a minute. Um, all right. So yeah, pray for Ocean that he grows the courage to tell his parents that he's becoming Catholic. Pray for JD Vance's wife and Jesse Water. And uh yeah, I think uh I think I think Ocean's A B's number one fan. All right. We are

Closing Prayers And Next Guest Tease

SPEAKER_03 2:15:56

gonna see you guys on Thursday. Uh not this Thursday, next Thursday. We have Nancy Charles coming on. And we're gonna close out June with a hopeful message to the gays. We're gonna give a hopeful message message to the gays before June is out.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:14

I don't think next week's the last week of June, but yeah, it's close to it though.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:18

Um, yeah, you got a Taffy outro video for them? I don't think so. Taffy, do I have an outro video? I mean, he knew we were doing this tonight.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:28

No, you don't say one. It's hard to keep up with them when I'm trying when I'm also like these these these Tuesday shows are a lot of work.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:37

I I love them, they're a lot of work. We have to like actually study. The the good thing is that I know what I'm studying, right? Whereas on the Thursday show, I have to look for something to talk about and something that like I'll have ideas on. Whereas these shows, it's like, all right, just read the content and do it. But it is a lot of reading and it is a lot of research and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:58

I basically wrote like an eight-page paper after doing all the reading.

SPEAKER_03 2:17:02

Yeah, so all right, take us out, Rob.

SPEAKER_02 2:17:06

Uh, what do I have for an outro? This one.