Rome Has Spoken: Gregory XVI's Prophetic Warning Against Liberalism | Mirari Vos

A pope in 1832 looks out at Europe and sees something most people still refuse to name: ideas can riot. Revolutions do not stay in streets and parliaments. They move into schools, pulpits, newspapers, and finally into the way ordinary people talk about truth, conscience, and God. That’s the world behind Pope Gregory XVI’s Mirari Vos, and it’s why we wanted to start a series that reads encyclicals with real historical context instead of treating them like disconnected quotes.

We set the stage with the French Revolution’s de-Christianization, Napoleon’s assault on the papacy, and the postwar attempt to rebuild order at the Congress of Vienna. Then we track the flare-up of revolts in 1830 to 1831 and the strange internal pressure coming from inside the Church: the rise of a famous priest, Lamennais, who argues Catholicism will “thrive under liberty” if it embraces freedom of conscience, freedom of the press, and separation of Church and state. Gregory’s response is blunt, and we read the sections that hit hardest today: religious indifferentism, the claim that any religion can save if you’re “moral,” and the downstream collapse that follows when truth becomes optional.

We also talk about publishing, propaganda, and why the Church historically used tools like the imprimatur and even bans on harmful books, plus Gregory’s warning about coordinated attacks on clerical celibacy. If you care about Catholic tradition, Catholic social teaching, and the roots of today’s Church-state arguments, this one will give you a framework that’s bigger than the latest headline.

Subscribe, share this with a friend who argues about “religious freedom,” and leave a review. After you listen, drop a comment with the line from Mirari Vos that felt most controversial to you today.

Transcript

Series Plans And Framing

SPEAKER_03 0:31

So we we were discussing the uh intro. I think what we're gonna I because we plan on doing this series, we're gonna do a few of them and see how they go. Um, and I think we want Taffy to make an actual intro for the series and a little bit more regality to it since we're discussing the Pope and encyclicals and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 0:55

I mean, we actually put in prep work, yeah. So I feel like we should show that by having a we read stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

Well, I think I think this will be a good series because um um he hasn't seen the intro yet, Def. We are gonna play it to go over to locals, but we're gonna play it to go over to locals, so I didn't see it yet. Um we're uh I think this will work good with our dynamic because Rob is uh like super good on history, and I'm I'm gonna kind of let Rob cover the history angle of this, and then we'll go through the encyclical together and see if either of us have any insights on the encyclical and see how things go. But it's just you know, we we make reference to all of these past documents, and they're not written in a vacuum, these things. Like they're there's historical context around them. Like when I'm reading the when I'm reading this document, the first thing that's coming to mind for me is man, no wonder Vatican I came up, and no wonder papal infallibility came up. Like you're you're looking at the world collapsing around you, and you I'm read I just read that Cardinal Manning book, and he's one of the main proponents of of um of papal infallibility. What year is Vatican I, Rob? Uh 1870. Yeah, so it's it's a generation after this, it's 40 years after this.

SPEAKER_04 2:15

Two generations, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Yeah, yeah. A generation, biblical generation is 40 years, but yeah, um, yeah, so it's written 40 years after this, but these are the events that lead up to Vatican I and why there's this clamoring for papal infallibility. I know there's other things in Vatican I, obviously, but that's that's the doozy from it. And a lot of it has to do with the way the popes are acting after the Reformation. Like you're in this chaotic world post-Enlightenment. You have the Reformation, then you have the Enlightenment in the 17th century, and the world just seems like it's in total chaos.

Incel Story And Sponsor Read

SPEAKER_04 2:52

Yeah, because really the the popes start to communicate in a very different way, um, really uh with this encyclical. I mean, the first real modern encyclical is about a hundred years before, but there's only a few of them and up until this, and there's not, you know, they're not really doing a lot of like doctrinal teaching to like the whole world.

SPEAKER_03 3:15

Oh, we just lost Rob. Is he kidding me? He's gonna leave me doing this all on my own. Um, well, while Rob's gone, I actually have a story I want to talk to you guys about. Um, I have I have a friend, and um, that was weird. Yeah, uh well, I was gonna just get into it. I was gonna actually tell everybody a little story. It's kind of an important story. Um, I have this, I have this friend, and um I doxed him last episode, so I don't want to say his name or anything, but let's just call him Bob. Um I have a friend. Not Rob. No, no, no, not Rob. Look, I don't want to, I don't want to dox my friend, so we'll call him Bob. Now the thing is Bob is like a total incel. Okay, this guy was a total loser incel, and he had nothing going for him at all. Like I'm like total, like just didn't wouldn't we be nervous around girls and stuff, and didn't know how to talk at all. And uh I I invited him to my house for New Year's and we decided we were gonna quit smoking. I gave Bob a knick-knack. By the end of the night, Bob met a girl and he rizzed her up so well that I'm hearing there may be wedding bells in the future. All right. So all I'm saying, look, I don't I can't prove this scientifically, but I think knick-knacks might be a cure for those incels out there that can't get a chick because Bob, Bob was he had no hope at all. Like, no hope at all. I gave him a pack of zin on New Year's. By the end of the night, he's risen this chick up, taken around, making plans. In a few months, these two are like, forget it. You can't I can't even be around them. They're so freaking annoying. They're like, ugh, they're they're gross to be around. They love each other so much. So I'm just saying, if you guys are single and you're having a hard time eating a girl, I don't, you know, there's no science to back this, but this is just my theory that nick knacks cured is insuldo.

SPEAKER_04 5:21

Now, did you make sure to tell Bob that knick knacks do contain nicotine, and nicotine is an addictive substance?

SPEAKER_03 5:27

Now, look, that's the one. Look, you're going to be addicted to nicotine, but at least you'll have a girl. All right, true. Yeah, so it's a trade-off, right? Yeah, I we get you a discount, we get you a 10%. Look, your first order, 25% off, right? So if it's your first time, you're single and you can't land a chick, like a b 25% off your first order, and you get 25% off. But if you if you want to go on a second or third date, use code AB10 for every subsequent purchase after that.

SPEAKER_04 5:57

And I mean, I I you know, I talked to this Bob too, and uh, I know what he might be planning as a wedding gift. Really? I hear he is planning on a black monk rosary.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Black monk rosy. No, but I will say this. Listen, you we do have communion season and confirmation season right now. Yes, yes, communion season and confirmation season are right now, and I have to tell you, these are phenomenal communion confirmation gifts. They are amazing Mother's Day and Father's Day gifts. Um, they're good if you need a weapon in your vehicle and your state has strict gun laws. They are they will beat a person to death if you need it. Uh black monk leather pouches for them too. Yeah, uh, they sent us both awesome leather pouches with our Black Monk Rosary. So uh get 10% off an amazing black monk rosary by going to blackmonkrosaries.com. Use code AvoidingBabylon at checkout, and you guys will get 10% off. Uh, I tried to get Bob to pray a black monk rosary, but this guy, Bob, is he wanted to pray uh the Jesus Harper and he's he's got some he's what he's got some rope, he's got like a Muslim rope he carries around or something. I forget what they call it. I hear they use promo code and quit smoking and being an incel will go in one. Uh this is use promo code quit smoking, quit being an incel. And yeah, Bob's doing okay. So we won't.

SPEAKER_04 7:27

This is this is all because Bob gave Anthony a hard time about being late in the comments before the stream started.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

Bob said we were on black people time. I was on black people time. I said, All right, just changed the ad read. Bob is our ad read tonight.

SPEAKER_04 7:41

All right, so uh we got that out of the way, at least.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Yeah, we got that out of the way, and you know what? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 7:47

I don't know either. I don't know. I don't know how I feel about that one.

Setting Up Mirari Vos

SPEAKER_03 7:52

Black monk rosaries matter. Uh all right, so let's get to it. Um, Rob, I would like for you to kind of set the stage for the historical context of this because this this encyclical is written in 1832, and it's right after the French Revolution, right?

SPEAKER_04 8:15

About a generation after, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:17

Yeah, it's like the French Revolution is in the 1780s, 1789, or something, and this kind of chaos going on in France and Europe.

SPEAKER_04 8:24

So yeah, uh yeah, to so to really understand like why so as I was saying before StreamYard kicked me, like this is really the first like encyclical to like the whole faithful about like you know, doctrinal um social issues that are going on at the time. Um, prior to this, you know, the the first mod what they called modern encyclical was about a hundred years before, but that was to bishops, and like other than that, there was one about uh usury um right prior to the French Revolution. But like so Mirari Voss. That one well should have done that one, started with usury. I think it's even shorter and so specific that it would have I don't know, like this this is the first big like social encyclical um that was meant for the now.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

Is this written? It's not really written to the lady, though, right? It's written to priests, essentially, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 9:23

That's a good question. Well, let me take a look at the beginning. So, yeah, this one is addressed to all patriarchs, patriarchs, primates, art, archbishops, and bishops of the Catholic world. Later on, um, and we'll find out how much later when we start to read the later ones, they start to be addressed to all the faithful.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh, this guy keeps getting booted. I don't know what's going on here.

SPEAKER_03 9:49

Um, while we're waiting for Rob to give us historical context, like some of the things that stood out to me right from the beginning, like we wanted to do this to kind of get freaking on here.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

It's keep stream art's kicking me.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

Is this gonna continuously happen throughout the episode?

SPEAKER_04 10:04

I don't know. Stream art's telling all like it kicks me. It says it might be my internet connection, but everything else is working.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

Um, if you get booted again, just come back on and I'll fit like I'll I'll pick up on something that happened to the encyclical. Let me and this way here the people aren't getting thrown back and forth like that.

SPEAKER_04 10:20

Uh, anyways, so um in 1832, when when Gregory's writing this, when it gets released, like the Papal States are literally on fire. Liberal revolutionaries um had risen up in Bologna in the Romagna. Um, Pope Gregory had to request troops, um, Austrian troops from uh Metternich. Um, so like as he's writing this, like Austrian troops are m marching south to put the rebellion down. Half of uh the rest of Catholic Europe had thrown their monarchs out again, yeah. And then inside the church herself, like there's a celebrity priest in Paris, um, you know, basically like the 1830s version of Swim Jim Martin, um, telling Catholics that the future of the faith depended on embracing the revolution that was trying to burn down Rome. So, like, that's the situation Gregory's in when he's starting to write Mirari Voss.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

You know, wasn't it was really interesting. Like, Rob sent me this, like Rob sent me this like uh document kind of like summarizing all this stuff. And when you even this priest that Rob's talking about is an ultramontanist, like he's it's kind of interesting that you have some guys pushing for papal infallibility because they see the pope as the catacomb, and then you're seeing a revolutionary saying, Well, we need pay, you know, like we need the pope to have absolute authority, but he's still pushing the liberal stuff almost like they anticipate getting a liberal pope in one day, maybe.

SPEAKER_04 11:55

Yeah, you know, um, yeah, that's a good point. And you know, a lot of people kind of make fun of um Marshall's book, Infiltration, but like, you know, I don't know if you necessarily want to believe like the whole Alta Vendita thing and stuff, but like there really is a level of infiltration to what happens in the church from the French Revolution up until now. Like it's almost impossible to deny. And we'll see this as we go through the history um of what's going on in this period. You'll see what happens, and I think the big difference is just the response, you know, of what we how we respond today compared to how Gregory ends up responding.

SPEAKER_03 12:37

So, yeah, yeah, you get you got you have to like the French Revolution because the French Revolution is a type of apocalypse that happens, it is a type of end times that happens. You have the complete de-christianization of France happening all over the place. That these people are getting intoxicated with these new ideas, and they're they're they're trying to subordinate the church to the state. They have an abomination of desolation when they install reason on the altar. They have uh priests and nuns are being killed, nuns are being raped. Like it is vile and brutal what actually happens in France. And then what you Napoleon, you have the Napoleonic wars come come, and then Napoleon confronts which Pope does he confront? Two of them, Pius VI and Pius the.

SPEAKER_04 13:30

He doesn't confront them, he he holds them hostage, holds them hostage. Pius the sixth and the seventh.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

Didn't he hit one of them? Like he who strikes. I don't know. I don't know if that's lore, but yeah. So after this, like Napoleon kind of like backs things up and tries to restore Catholicism a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 13:48

No, no, no, no, not at all.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

No, no, what am I getting wrong?

French Revolution And Church Trauma

SPEAKER_04 13:51

No, so um, so yeah, like like you were saying, the actual revolution itself under like the reign of terror and the the Jacobins, you know, you have the civil constitution of the clergy in 1790 that tries to turn the the church in France to just a department of the government where bit bishops are elected by voters and priests swear oaths of loyalty loyalty to the republic instead of to Rome. They like you said, they installed the cult of reason inside Notre Dame, uh, where an actress is crowned the goddess of reason on the high altar. Um, Gregory, Pope Gregory the 16th, was born in 1765. So he's like 15. Well, no, not 15, he'd be 25 when all this is going down. And at that time, he's um a young monk um of an order I'd never heard of the the Camillaese order. So he watches he's he's Italian, like all the popes were for like 500 years. So he watches Napoleon march into Italy, seize the Papal States, kidnap the you know, Pius VI, Pius the Seventh, and he draws the whole, you know, he Napoleon redraws the whole map of Europe basically at gunpoint. But eventually Napoleon's defeated, and after that you have the Congress of Vienna in 1814, 1815. And all these all these states, you know, who had defeated Napoleon, try to put everything back together. And the big, the big figure really doing most of the work was the Austrian foreign minister, uh, Clemens von Metternich. You know, so he's a he's a Catholic minister of the Catholic Habsburgs. Um, so things are at that point are starting to feel hopeful. Metternich's putting everything back together, trying to rebuild the you know, the order of Europe, the Catholic order of Europe. He's restoring Catholic monarchies, he's restoring the alliance of throne and altar. And it was like a period where the church could finally breathe again, you know, for the first time in 25-30 years almost. But um, the thing like they didn't understand or didn't understand fully is like you, you know, they defeated Napoleon's armies, they defeated the armies of the revolution, but they didn't defeat like all the ideas that started it. So all these ideas go back underground, back into the salons, you know, back into the secret societies, into the mate, the the Masonic lodges, into the universities, and those ideas, you know, indifferentism, liberalism, you know, um freedom of the press, freedom of speech, all those things are still there, and they're still waiting for a chance to to restart. And you know, in the 1820s, you know, about 10 years after the Congress of Vienna, that's what starts to happen again.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

Yeah, I I watched a um I watched a Bishop Williamson um talk about history, and there's two there's a couple of things that he pointed out. One is how these forces were actually going on earlier than all of this. Um, and Saint Joan of Arc was like a mercy from God holding this stuff back for a period. Like that, the war between England and France, like for England was like primed for their for their revolt from the church, basically. Like, yeah, Henry VIII is the one who did it, but like the the these ideas were fomenting all over England already, and that uh Saint John of Arc was a very big part of like holding some of this stuff back. The other thing he uh what uh what was the other thing? What was I where was I going with this? Um uh I actually put I have a clip that we're going to play when we get to like religious indifferentism, but um yeah, you you you have all of the oh uh Christina wanted to know who actually defeated uh or Christine wanted to know who actually defeated Napoleon?

SPEAKER_04 17:39

It was um an alliance of of Britain under Wellington, um the Prussians under Blücher, uh the Austrians uh and the Russians. So basically the rest of Europe um allied, you know, against Napoleon, eventually ended up driving him back. Um, you know, the big trope of of never um uh you know, don't bring a land or army into Asia. You know, he he tried to invade Russia in the winter and that didn't go well. So then everyone allied against him and ended up beating him back. He was an antichrist figure, right? I think it can definitely be said said that way, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:19

Yeah, you I mean you have you have yeah, just the things that are happening. Oh, the other thing um Williamson was saying was that there a lot of people want to separate the French Revolution from the American Revolution, but the two are so interconnected. You have the French actually wind up losing to England because they give all their resources to America, but they come and they help you know uh Benjamin Franklin and all the Freemasons over in America. Then after we fight our revolution, those guys all go over to France and help them with their revolution.

SPEAKER_04 18:51

You can't separate the American Revolution from the English Civil War, yeah, Whigs versus Tories. You know, the American Revolution was basically American Whigs versus American Tories, and um you know it was really a continuation of those ideals.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

So really the whole thing is about tearing down kings, right? Like the whole world is pushing towards democracy at this time, and the idea is like they see kings as evil, they oh kings are interfering with our liberty, and we we need liberty throughout the world, and the whole world is tending towards democracy, and that's what Cardinal Manning is writing about in his book, talking about how like everybody is just in this rush toward democracy, and so much of it has to do with a revolt from the divine order because the the earthly order should mirror the heavenly order and and the kingdom of heaven is where you get this whole idea of you know the divine right of kings and and just the whole way a monarchy is set up, but the monarchs were supposed to recognize Christ as king, and when you have a king who's subject to another king and keeps him under a moral restraint, it can actually work. It's it's much worse the situation we're in now without kings, because presidents have infinitely more power than any king in the middle ages ever had, and the only they're responsible to the people, right?

SPEAKER_04 20:12

Which is basically to to mob rule, they're not responsible to anything or anyone above them.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

Yeah, yeah, there's no that that's where all of this, um all of all of this comes down to why uh which pope institutes the feast of Christ the king?

SPEAKER_04 20:30

Uh that's Pius the Eleventh and Quas Primas. Yeah, so in 25, I think.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

Yeah, it's you just see this this evil that that Gregory starts speaking about in this encyclical just gathers more and more power as it goes through history. And by the time you get to then, it's like the Pope is just looking at the world, he's going, none of none of the earthly powers even see the the social kingship of Christ that that we're all subject to.

SPEAKER_04 20:58

I I think that will be one of the interesting things we're gonna need to explore as we go through the series, is like in and as we read this encyclical after we finish off the history, like it will be really obvious that the way Gregory is speaking is so different than the way popes have spoken for 80 years now. But I I think one thing that we're gonna have to explore is like even though these these popes talk the way we wish popes talk about now, like in some way they what they were trying to do failed big time, right? Like this in 1832, Gregory the 16th is talking about liberalism and indifferentism, and he's he puts it down harshly. Yeah, and the next pope is gonna do the same, and the pope after that is gonna do the same, and the pope after that's gonna do the same. And it it's like this snowball that they try, you know, were trying to stop. They they couldn't some for some reason, it just keeps building and building and building, and now it seems like you know, with uh Vatican II, they Just gave up trying to start the snowball, you know.

SPEAKER_03 22:02

Well, it was the French revolution within the church, it's the French Revolution inside the church, right? So last week we had spoken, and I read Catholic Esquire's tweet where he was like, Well, it's not because somebody was saying, Well, why didn't why didn't the traditional liturgy hold back, you know, all of these errors before? And he said, Well, it's not just about the liturgy, it's about the doctrine too. But when you go to this period, you see we have the doctrine intact, we have the liturgy intact, but the problem is not the doctrine and liturgy, it's men's hearts. Men's hearts are cold and they reject God. And Paul tells us this will happen. They'll hear they'll hear doctrines that tickle their ears, and they won't respect sound doctrine any longer, you know. Like the like as you as you start to see, you're seeing antichrist build up and build up within the world and church. And the first thing that strikes me when I'm reading this encyclical, it's the second paragraph. And in the second paragraph, he says, uh, Pope Gregory says, In the meantime, we were again delayed because of the insolent and factious men who endeavored to raise the standard of treason. Eventually, we had to use our God-given authority to restrain the great obstinacy of these men with a rod. Before we did, their unbridled rage seemed to grow from continued impunity and our considerable indulgence. For these reasons, our duties have been heavy. He is saying, I am the catacomb restraining the great obstinacy of these men, and I had to use my God-given authority as that restrainer. And he's talking about these rebel, like everything we talked about in that Cardinal Manning episode about these forces, like the body of the devil growing within the church. We're talking about priests that are inside the church who are liberal and and ultramontanists, who are trying to the body of the devil is growing and gaining power within the church.

SPEAKER_04 23:59

Yeah, I think I think even by this point, right? Like the the papacy's lost a lot of ability to to restrain, and you know, the and he he Gregory still had the papal states, you know, he still had some sort of military, but we see he's still having to call on Austria for assistance, and Austria was the only one that would help him. France was once again under kind of a liberal regime, and England was, of course, Protestant.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

And well, that the issue the issue is like the we talk about separation of church and state now, is if the spiritual and temporal are so different, but in in a like in the middle ages, before you have all these revolts, the state protected the church. Yeah, this yeah, the state would protect the church and protect her sanctuaries and protect her rights and protect her, and it and it was the like the spiritual would may have been higher in order than the temporal, but the temporal had a duty to protect the the church.

SPEAKER_04 24:58

Like, you know, I we've talked before, you know, on one hand, how maybe some sense of Rome as in like Romanitas or the Roman Empire or the Holy Roman Empire being some sort of a catacomb. We've also talked how the papacy, you know, Rome, the papacy being the catacomb, but I really think it's like the two swords of both, you know, both spiritual uh Roman authority under the pontiff and temporal Roman authority, you know, with Romanitas and the state together are the restrainer. And I think what what we see, you know, from really the Protestant revolt up until this, and as we go through now these encyclicals, is the state, the the the political states are getting less and less willing to assist with that restraining. And actually, that it's those states that eventually actually do you know, do end up doing the damage.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Yeah, yeah. So that's what Cardinal Manning is talking about in his entire book. He's talking about the temporal and the spiritual, right? And he's and what he winds up falling to is because the temporal has like essentially like the Roman Empire is no longer there, it's now fallen completely to the Pope. But even the church herself has a governing structure, yeah, right. So there is in some way within the Roman Catholic Church, there is still some element of the temporal and this like the governing structure and the spiritual structure. Like the the Roman Catholic Church has the ability to tell like uh to command your will, where no other no other Christian denomination can do that, right? They they may say they are, but you'll just leave that denomination and go to another. Whereas if you want to be Catholic, the Catholic Church has dominion over your will. And if you don't fall into that, at one at least at this point, when they would actually excommunicate you if you if you you know were were insubordinate and things like that. Um, we come to you grieving and sorrowful because I'm sorry, do you want to jump in? Or well, we're gonna keep doing history if you have more history, keep keep going.

Lamennais And Liberal Catholic Pitch

SPEAKER_04 27:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I want to go through the year 1830, okay, and then talk about the liberal priest, and then we can get into the encyclopedia. Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure. Take us. Okay, so uh first 1830, the the year 1830 is when stuff really burst out again. So uh in 1830, in July, Paris erupts again. The conservative Catholic um uh Bourbon King Charles X was overthrown. Uh, in his place, they have the July monarchy of Louis-Philippe, who was called the Citizen King. Yeah, they expanded voting rights, church influence was rolled back, and France starts to become openly secular. Then in August, a month later, Belgium revolts against the Netherlands, and within a year they had a constitution, and at the heart of the constitution was a religious liberty, freedom of the press, separation of church and state. Uh, so now you have another Catholic country, Belgium, literally building like the foundations of their new nation on liberalism. Then November, the Poles rise up against Russia, but get crushed. Um, in February of 1831, a few months after that, revolts break out in Modena, Parma in the Papal States, uh, Bologna falls, Romania falls. Um, so now, like as we talked about earlier, the Papal States are an open revolt. Um, and then so that's in February. On February 2nd, is when Gregory is elected Pope. Okay. So, like Gregory is elected Pope as the Papal States are revolting, all revolting. He's dealing with all this insanity. So he's not even crowned yet. Back when they are crowned, and his kingdom is being torn apart in front of him.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

That's so that's like the treason that he's talking about in this letter. He's you know, he's talking about insolent and factious men who endeavor to rain raise the standard of treason. These are in the papal states, he's dealing with this.

SPEAKER_04 28:55

Yep, so he calls in Austrian troops under Metternich. So you have cat foreign Catholic soldiers marching into Catholic territory to suppress Catholic revolutionaries who claim they're fighting for Catholic liberty. Um, and as you talked about, you know, this this is why he talks about later how he speaks of the storms of evil and toil and a terrible conspiracy of uh impious men. Um, so he when he writes that it's not metaphor, it's not allegory, it's like just what was literally happening in front of him.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:26

So then, so this is um if we go back a little ways to October of 1830, so um, a few months before he's elected, a French priest named uh Delaminet launches a newspaper in Paris, and he names it Lavin Lavenier, it's French for the future, right? So he names a newspaper the future, and its motto is God and Liberty. He wasn't a fringe figure, he was like the celebrity priest of the time, you know. I don't know if I don't know if James Martin. No, I don't think James Martin would be appropriate. Honestly, Bishop Barron, and I thought that's what I was saying. Yeah, yeah. If you look at these two priests, what Lamanae gets ended up ends up getting lambasted by Gregory for is almost exactly what Barron would say, you know, like it's like Barron's mega Catholicism. So he's like he's like the Bishop Barron of his time. He's got a you know a circle of brilliant young Catholics around him. Um and they they they you know have a philosophy and arguments that on the surface sound Catholic, at least today. Um, they were ultramontanes, they wanted strong papal authority, they wanted to crush uh Gallicanism, which was like the idea that national churches like the French church should run themselves outside of Rome. Um but Lamonet argued that the church shouldn't lean on kings anymore, that the throne and alter alliance was basically done and outdated, and instead the church should embrace liberal democracy, freedom of conscience, freedom of the press, separation of church and state, because as Lamonet said, Catholicism would thrive under liberty. He didn't that the faith didn't need protection, it needed a free market of ideas, basically.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

Like all what's what's so nuts is the very things that Gregory is going to come down on in this encyclical, are the very things that uh Pope is promoting now.

SPEAKER_04 31:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:27

And it just shows you that these forces, because this is a priest within the church talking like this, and these are the men who gain power within the church, like it's just it's the restraining element to keep these men from getting the positions of power, it starts to falter. And I but and a lot of that has to do with a chastisement to us because our hearts have grown cold, and bad pastors are a punishment from God for those of us who aren't, you know, it's like a it's like a divine chastisement, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:02

Um, yeah, so with Lamonet, uh the the conservative French bishops are horrified. Uh Metternich in Vienna uh basically says it was a slow-acting poison. Um then November of 1831, so now about eight months after Gregory's elected, and the the papal states are you know being suppressed by the Austrian troops, uh Lamonet decides to go to Rome to get what he thinks is a you know a blessing by the Pope for his new liberal program. And Gregory receives him in March of 32. And if Lamonet was told that it would he would be received quarterly as long as he didn't mention his political program at all. So Lamone uh said, fine, that's no problem. So he's in Rome, he you know, he's received by Gregory, and he's waiting around for months basically for approval. And he thought the la you know, the longer it went on with no condemnations, that it was a sort of silent approval. But then on in August, so that would be what five months later on the feast of the assumption is when Gregory the 16th issues Mirari Vos. And he doesn't name Lamanay in the encyclical, but everyone knew this was who he was condemning. Right. Everyone knew exactly who was condemning, you know, all of Lamonet's ideas, liberty of conscience is condemned, freedom of the press is condemned, separation of church and state is condemned, indifferentism is condemned. Um uh and then Gregory suspends Lamonet's paper. Um, and he Lamone leaves Rome. Uh, two years later in 1834, Gregory issues another encyclical singulari nos and names Lamonet directly. Yeah, he does. And Lamonet uh apostasizes, leaves the priesthood, and dies outside of the church. Wow. So he's never he's never excommunicated, but Gregory writes an encyclical, names them, sends it out to the whole world. Wow. He decides to leave the church. Man, that's wild. So that's that's basically the the history behind it.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

The historical context in which this is written. So he's writing basically to this priest without mentioning him by name yet, but all of the ideas this priest is pushing, the priest himself is an ultramontanist pushing liberal ideas. And we get we get this document from Gregory, who starts to see the danger that's on the horizon from these ideas, because it's fomenting revolution, not just in the world, but within the church itself. We come to you grieving and sorrowful because we know that you are concerned for the faith in these difficult times. Now is truly the time in which the powers of darkness winnow, uh, winnow the elect, like wheat, the earth mourns and fades away, and the earth is infected by the inhabitants thereof because they have transgressed the laws, they have changed the ordinances, they have broken the everlasting covenant. This, like the way the way the Pope spoke with just such authority and just such a deep love for the faith, and they and the Gregory just entrusts this whole work to our lady at the end. It's really pretty.

SPEAKER_04 35:23

I I saw that, and it's yeah. What were you gonna say? No, no, no, go ahead, go ahead. If you got it. So say the next paragraph, um, paragraph five, I thought sound like it's a perfect description of our own world, right? He says, We speak of the things uh which you see with your own eyes, which we both bemoan. Depravity exalts, science is imprudent, liberty dissolute, the holiness of the sacred is despised, the majesty of divine worship is not only disapproved by evil men, but defiled and head up held up to ridicule. I mean, he dude, the second American council.

SPEAKER_03 36:06

You you know that sentence could be written about the novice order, but he's he's right, he's writing it a hundred years 150 years before it it exists, but because the ideas were already in the air, like the it's not the the because people really do have this idea that the council happened and it was this earth shattering thing. It's like, no, these ideas were in the air for 150 years before the council, like it really um uh what is this? The seed war is crazy. May is the month of our lady. Did you guys see what the secular world has renamed it? No, um is it like Jewish, like Jews or something? I did see that. Um, yeah, and sound doctrine is perverted and errors of all kinds spread boldly. The laws of the sacred, the rights, institutions, and discipline, none are safe from the audacity of those speaking evil. Our Roman see is harassed violently, and the bonds of unity are daily loosened and severed. The divine authority of the church is opposed and her rights shorn off. She is subjected to human reason and with the greatest injustice, exposed to the hatred of the people and reduced to vile servitude. The obedience to bishops is denied and their rights are trampled underfoot. Furthermore, academics and schools resound with new, monstrous opinions which openly attack the Catholic faith. This horrible and nefarious war is open, openly and even publicly waged. Thus, by institutions and by example of teachers, the minds of the youth are corrupted, and a tremendous blow is dealt to religion, and the perversion of morals is spread. So the restraints of religion are thrown off, by which alone kingdoms stand. We see the destruction of public order, the fall of principalities, and the overturning of all legitimate power approaching. Like he sees he sees the overturning of all legitimate power approaching. Indeed, this great mass of calamities had had its inception in the heretical societies and sects in which all that is sacrilegious, infamous, and blasphemous is gathered as bilgewater in the ship's hold, a congealed mass of all filth. Now, the thing is, I don't want to go through the entire encyclical. I really do want to jump down to indifferentism, though. And that's paragraph 13, is where it really gets into it, Rob. But before we get into that, I want to play the um the Bishop Williamson clip that I that I threw in because he kind of he kind of gives you uh a setting of the historical context as well, and just shows you like what the danger is and what like what when you're getting into the Protestant revolts and then the Catholics make peace with the Protestants, kind of with the dangers that are lying there.

SPEAKER_04 38:36

I don't know in which way I put it in the Telegram. I know it's not in any format I can put it on screen. It's playing in Telegram, but in the in I cannot I cannot get it to expand at all. Let me see if I can get it to mine.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Let's see how it's where did you get it from? I have a screen recorder like I always do. You think if I send it to you on um Twitter, it'll work?

SPEAKER_04 39:05

Oh wait, hold on. Okay, I got it now.

Westphalia And The Tolerance Slide

SPEAKER_03 39:08

You got it? Took a second to load, I guess. Yeah, it's a it's uh it's a pretty good uh yeah. Everybody wait, somebody pet ant drinks out of a bell jar and mug. So my my my kids' friends, when they come over, they go, uh my my my son's friend Mike, he goes, anytime he's like, anytime I go to get a glass of water at at the Abadi house, he goes, I know I'm gonna get like uh uh what did he call it? Oh, I just blew it because he said it. It was so freaking funny. Like, what what oh he goes he goes, anytime I come to your house, I know I'm gonna get like a goblet or a jar. I can never just get a glass to get a glass of water. I I like a big glass of water and I don't have like big glasses, so I drink out of a giant jar when I come down here. I don't know how to tell you guys. Um, if you got that, let's play it.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

After 30 years of uh slugfest, the Catholics and the Protestants said, Look, we're not gonna get anywhere, so we'd better agree to differ. We don't like one another's ideas, but we'd better just uh say we're not going to um uh succeed, neither of us is gonna win this, so we'd better split the spoils and say uh stop fighting. So the peace of Westphalia said that wherever the prince of a region is Protestant, that area will be Protestant, there'll be no more fighting. Wherever the Prince of a region, or the Duke, or the Count or the King is Catholic, that part of the world is gonna be Catholic, no more fighting. So that's that was the peace of Westphalia. It was a standstill of the fighting between the Catholics and the Protestants. And the Catholics and the Protestants agreed to stop fighting. Okay, now how do the liberals see that? The liberals that that is religious liberty, liberty to practice what religion you like, established in fact. It's not yet established in principle, but the the the simple fact that the Protestants and the Catholics agree to stop fighting means that if you want to be a Protestant, all you've got to do is move from one of the Catholic provinces or countries to one of the Protestants. And if you're a Catholic and you're caught in a Protestant part of the world, you simply move to a Catholic part of the world. You can, by moving house, by moving to where you've got your own kind of prince, you can have what religion you like. So there's there's liberty in fact of religion. It's not in principle. The Protestants say everybody's gonna be Protestant, the Catholics say everybody's gonna be Catholic. So no, none of them admit liberty in principle, but the liberty is there in fact. And so this is for the liberals quite a step forward. Um, then the enlightenment is the it is worth finishing the clip out.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Like I said, I know it's it's just getting like it just shows so he's saying, like, so you now have religious liberty in in fact, but it's not an agreed to principle that they're both like, okay, we'll allow for religious liberty. It's just like, look, it is what it is. It's kind of like when I say, uh, when they say does Israel have a right to exist? I'm like, well, Israel does exist, like it's it does exist. There's no way to like it's not about that they have a right to exist, they they do exist, and we're not going to advocate for the extermination of a people that because they live there, but you never agree to any kind of right to it. And what there what what ends up happening is you have this religious liberty in fact, and then that becomes religious liberty in principle. So let's finish, we'll finish that clip out real quick. He's got like another 30, 40 seconds to men than 13. Yeah, it's worth it.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Uh advance from fact to principle. Because the trouble is if you get too used to living in peace with your Protestant neighbors, you finish up by saying, hey, you know, uh they play as good as gang as golf as I do, they cut their front lawn just as well as I do, as we Catholics do, they clean their streets even a little better than we do, they go on the anti-abortion parades just like we do, they, you know, keep their children's noses clean even a bit better than we do. So, really, what's wrong with these fellows? They're just like us, we're just like them. We're all one great slushy happy party. That's this slide from the fact to and the problem, and the the popes complained about it, the waste piece of Westralia. They said, watch out, watch out. If you let this, if you you all right, uh maybe a standstill of the weapons was necessary, but make sure that it doesn't slide into an acceptance of what the Protestants are and what they stand for. Because if you go from the if you let it slide from the fact of their existing to acknowledging the right of them to exist, it's a very easy slide to make. And that's what happens through the 18th century.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

So that's a yeah, and and that is what happened in the Treaty of Westphalia 1648. So that's 200 years before what we're even talking about. Yeah, it was already an issue.

SPEAKER_03 43:50

Yeah, and and the thing is you see how it eventually winds up playing out when you have the the Vatican comes out with uh uh dictating. And they come out with no shirtate and they start putting out these documents talking about how you know you do need religious freedom, right? Now, look, there are places in the world, like in Africa, where Catholics are being slaughtered, and yet you need to talk about religious freedom in those places as a fact. Like you just need to allow Catholics to practice their faith in those places without you know threat of violence or threat of things like that. But the way the church presented it after the council or in the council made it as if this was the norm. And religious liberty once put into once put into as a principle, especially in America. I was, I think I was just talking to Alex Poe about this, maybe, or Dr. Deep State or something. Your kids are now, if especially if your kids are in public school, your kids are now in school with this kid's Protestant, this kid's Muslim, this kid's Hindu, this kid's Jewish. Every one of these kids all were raised in families that are telling them, oh, you're part of the one true religion, and your kids looking and going, Well, they think they have the one true faith, and they think they have the one true faith, and they think they have the one true faith. Like, and and it puts a doubt in your children's minds subconsciously. And it happened to me, it happened to you, it happened to pretty much every oh, maybe not you, but you went to Catholic school and you had a Catholic environment. But those of us who went to public school, you and then you end up hanging out with a lot of kids who have no religion at all, and then they become your friends. And next thing you know, you're smoking pot with the mantle school. I don't mean to get into all my riff rap when I was a kid, but you know what I mean. Like these are the things that actually wind up happening, and you're and you're not raising your children in a Catholic ethos anymore. And it should it should have just stayed as a as a you know, religious liberty as a fact, but it became one of principle, and now everybody thinks that all religions are equal. And when you think all religions are equal, what you're actually saying is no religion means anything, and then eventually you get a Pope saying all religions are just a different language to God. It's it's kind of, I mean, it's demonic stuff, but all right. So paragraph 13.

Indifferentism And One True Faith

SPEAKER_04 46:09

Oh, hold on. Before we get there, there was um a couple couple things I thought was was okay. So in 10, uh, which is papal authority over canonical decrees, he says, These authors of novelties consider that a foundation may be laid of a new human institution, and what Cyprian detested may come to pass that what was a divine thing may become a human church. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 46:35

Right? I mean, like wow. Then you then you take into account all of the all of the um the the the de-emphasizing of the contemplative orders that we live in now, right? Like like Francis especially was very harsh on the contemplative orders and very much about the social the social working orders and those who go out and they feed the poor and they feed the hungry. It's like, man, these two things worked so well as a symphony together throughout church history, and then you start to get this separation of the divine institution of the church into a more human institution of the church, and you see that the the pope sees it on the horizon and he's trying to warn about it.

SPEAKER_05 47:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:24

Um, I thought it was interesting he talks about marriage, you know. I mean, this is yeah, this is what uh almost 130 years before like you get no fault to for divorce in the US, and you know, he's saying that the people therefore must be zealously taught that a marriage rightly entered upon cannot be dissolved.

SPEAKER_03 47:43

You know, it's I just thought it was well, because you have Protestants allowing for divorce everywhere, right? So this idea that you can get divorced is now polluting the Catholic mind because there's Catholics living amongst Protestants, and the Protestants are on their second marriage, and you know, this is just a statement of reality. It's a thing that they're perceiving, and it infects the Catholic mind. And but I'm telling you, man, like we especially those trads who came into the church in the past decade, we have been taught that everything happens at the council. These things are way earlier than the council, man. And it all starts with the Protestant Reformation. Like, I really think the Protestant Reformation is like the Vitus Ordo Seclorum, the Old World Order is Christendom. Martin Luther really is like the the figurehead of the New World Order. So when you see Protestants today talk about the New World Order, it's like, you idiots. Like the old world order is Christendom. The new world order is Martin Luther's revolution that he starts putting into play. And the logical conclusion of it is atheism, the enlightenment, all these other nonsense things that come out. All of it, all of it is about a rejection of the authority given to the divine institution of the church. And it is infecting Catholics all over, especially. Look, you're it's it's the 1830s, you're coming up on the first great migration to America from Europe, right? It's I mean, you have another one in the 20th century, but the first the first one happens around this time, doesn't it? The uh like the Irish, largely Irish migration, yeah. Yeah, so you're getting these Catholics now going to America, and you're you're you're you're getting all these all these uh enlightenment ideas that are really instituted in the foundation of America. It's 277 live viewers right now, 200 more than the Ben Shapiro show live. I was gonna use my original ad read was gonna be something about like Ben Shapiro not using Knickknack and his show collapsing. And then when Bobby said that I was late for the show because I'm Sicilian, I was like, all right, now I'm gonna make the make the ad read about him. Um man. Well, all right, so what we do have a good local show tonight that we're gonna get to, but let's get through this stuff. So um, okay, so now on religious indifferentism, we now consider another abundant source of evils with which the church is afflicted at present, indifferentism. This perverse opinion is spread on all sides by the fraud of the wicked who claim that it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion, as long as morality is maintained. This goes to uh a quote you hear from that I heard from um Mother Teresa. If you're a Muslim, be a good Muslim. If you're a Hindu, be a good Hindu, if you're a Christian, be a good Christian, right? This stuff has has infected the Catholic mind. Surely, in so clear a matter, you will you will drive this deadly error far from the people committed to your care, with the admonition of the apostle that there is one God, one faith, one baptism. May who may those may those fear who contrive the notion that the safe harbor of salvation is open to persons of any religion whatsoever, they should consider the testimony of Christ Himself, that those who are not with Christ are against him, and they that disperse unhappily, who do not gather with him, therefore, without a doubt, they will perish forever, unless they hold the Catholic faith whole and inviolate. Yeah, that's right from Council of Florence. That part there. Let them hear Jerome, who while the Catholic Church was torn into three parts by schism, tells that tells us that whenever someone tried to persuade him to join this group, join his group, he always exclaimed, He who is for the Sea of Peter is for me. A schismatic flatters himself falsely if he asserts that he too has been washed in the waters of regeneration. Ooh, we're talking about the church now recognizing uh the the the validity of of uh Protestant baptisms, right? So think about what he just said there.

SPEAKER_04 51:53

Um uh I I don't know if it gets in. I think he's saying you it doesn't matter if you have a valid baptism.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

If you're if you're separate from the church and you're schismatic, yeah, exactly, right? It's like like our separated brethren who have the Holy Spirit present. I'm just saying, like these things do a schismatic flatters himself falsely if he asserts that he too has been washed in the waters of regeneration. Indeed, Augustine would reply to such a man the branch, uh the branch has the same form when it has been cut off from the vine, but of what profit for it is the form if it does not live from the root. Um, this is why this is why uh Augustine was like so like perplexed by Ticonius. Like Ticonius gets excommunicated by the Donatists and Augustine's like, well, why aren't you in communion with the Catholics? Ticonius won't even entertain it. It's really insane. Um, this shameful font of indifferentism gives rise to that absurd and erroneous proposition which claims that liberty of conscience must be maintained for everyone. It spreads ruin in sacred and civil affairs, though some repeat it over and over again with the greatest impudence that some advantage accrues to religion from it. But the death of the soul is worse than the death than the freedom of error.

SPEAKER_04 53:11

What he's talking right now is states allow like allowing liberty of freedom of religion, basically. Yeah, that that everyone says, No, no, real your religion will profit from it, and he's like, No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 53:26

Look, and I and we've said it on this show before. Look, it's even one thing for Christian European immigrants, even if they're Protestant, to come to America and we say, Look, if you're Baptist, if you're Presbyterian, like we're not going to interfere. The shirt, the state won't interfere in your in your church affairs, like you guys can do your thing. It's a whole other thing when you have such religious freedom that now the Muslims and the Hindus and all these other religions can come in, and now there's Diwali celebrations celebrated in America, and now there's Kwanzaa, and now there's all these different things that are being held up on the same level as Christmas, that are being held up on the same level as Easter.

SPEAKER_04 54:08

Did you see the video going around Twitter today of uh whatever Indian um Hindu celebration was today?

SPEAKER_03 54:15

Throwing cats in the air, throwing the cats in the air, throwing the cats in the air, these vile people, right?

SPEAKER_04 54:20

And you don't even like cats.

SPEAKER_03 54:23

Oh man. When all restraints are removed by which men are kept on the narrow path of truth, their nature, which is already inclined to evil, propels them to ruin. Then truly the bottomless pit is opened from which John saw smoke ascending, which obscured the sun, and out of which locusts flew forth to devastate the earth. Man, that is such an interesting passage because Cornelius Alapide puts a bishop of high place who has the keys to the bottomless pit and opens it. Now, which bishop has the keys to the bottomless pit and opens the abyss to allow these dragons and stuff to come forth, right? I mean, um, thence comes transformation of minds, corruption of youth, contempt of sacred things and holy laws, in other words, a pestilence more deadly to the state than any other. And and he's right, right? Like, like the biggest, the most ravenous thing that the state ever did was get rid of the Catholic faith because it actually did maintain order in your society and there was peace in your society. As soon as you get rid of the Catholic Church, you have nothing but revolution and unrest. These kings that actually like Henry the Eighth, the German princes who push for the reformation, like these men they led to the ruin of their own countries, they just couldn't see it.

SPEAKER_04 55:42

Should we be how can we be surprised that America's in the state it's in now? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 55:48

Yeah, it's it America was born in revolution, right? Like it was born in revolution, so there is it is an inherent quality in which we never respect our patrimony. We began our nation in revolution, throwing off the patrimony of what what our inheritance. So every generation after that, in some way, is like, let's let's chuck what came before us, and you know, and it's like this revolution is in our DNA, like it's just the the the the way our uh our our story is told, our our our national myth is revolution.

SPEAKER_04 56:27

I mean, this encyclical is 50, 60 years before who would that have been? Leo the thirteenth condemns Americanism, and Gregory's already condemning basically the the roots of the Constitution, freedom of religion. The next few paragraphs talk about freedom of the press and you know the freedom of speech.

SPEAKER_03 56:48

Like, yeah, I'll tell you, man, Cardinal Manning, his book is so similar to this, man. It's like he's going through so many of these things, also. Um, the the the the book was uh the present crisis of the holy sea. If anybody wants to get it, it's a short read. You could get through it in like three hours. Experience shows even from the earliest times that cities renowned for wealth, dominion, and glory perished as a result of the single evil, namely immoderate freedom of opinion, licensed free license of free speech, and desire for novelty.

SPEAKER_04 57:19

That's America, right?

SPEAKER_03 57:20

Condemning America, right? Yeah, it's our constitution. Because that look, this is this is it's 50 years after the American Revolution. It's uh you know, it's 1776, it's 50 years later, and and everybody sees, oh, look at America, they're prospering. They and they see our constitution, and the whole world wants to adopt it, right? So uh you even go to Benedict talking about um the council, and they're saying, Well, we saw something different, and and we didn't look at the French Revolution as so bad anymore. We saw it with an American revolutionary lens, like that. You know, that and that's how they wrote these council documents because they were so heavily influenced by the American Intel agencies on top of that. There's so much influence by the American Int agencies in that council. I mean, it's not this isn't like I mean, the our our the things that we talk about will never be a good show for the for the for the Pope splainers who want to pretend like things are fine. We're also not good for the SEDAs who want to make it like the church is you know, not the church and the novus order is a different religion. We're just trying to be realistic about the things that that are actually happening, we're trying to understand where these movements came from. It wasn't because a Freemason became the Pope, it's because these things were infecting the church long before then.

SPEAKER_04 58:37

I mean, if if you think so, Gregory writes this in 1830, obviously not super successful. You know, you have the revolutions of 1848. Um, so Pius the Ninth and Leo the Thirteenth, they become, you know, they grow up in a world that has this stuff. They become priests in a world that is more of the stuff than the world Gregory grew up in. You then you have you know Pius the 11th and and the 10th and 11th grow up in a world that's oh we lost Rob again.

SPEAKER_03 59:07

I can't believe we keep losing him. Um it is it's it's all these things like this whole encyclical is basically condemning condemning the American Constitution. I'm sorry, guys, Rob.

SPEAKER_04 59:21

I was just saying, like the world, like it's that's the the world snowballs, right? And then the the the Pope and the bishops and and priest and lady all grow up in a world that's worse than was before, and it just snowballs more and more in people, you know, when when you're raised in that sort of of a world, when you're you know, especially like a post-World War II sort of world, like it's hard, it takes a lot to break out of the world.

SPEAKER_03 59:51

You think about the technological changes that come there too now. So now you have this magic box that's in every single home of every person, and everybody's sitting there looking at their magic box, feeding them propaganda, telling them what to think. Now every one of us are holding our magic box in our hands, telling us what to think.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:11

I mean, it is encyclicals don't become common until this period just because of transportation, you're right. Imagine sending a world around to all the uh a letter to all the bishops in the world. It was you know it would have taken years prior to the the 16th, the yeah, the sixth seventeenth, eighteenth century or one on horseback, right?

Freedom To Publish And Bad Books

SPEAKER_03 1:00:31

Letters out on horseback. Yeah, it's around this time you get the telegraph, it's around this time you're starting to get radio. Uh well, radio is a little later, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:40

Um telegraph is is 50 years after this for the most part.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:46

Like you're starting, you're seeing technological advances, you're seeing the all the railroad system in place now. You're seeing you're seeing the technology shaping up, but then by the time you get to the council, you're talking about levels of propaganda that are being able to be fed that it's it's almost impossible to not be propagandized. Like every one of us may think we're impervious to this stuff. I promise you, every one of us believe narratives that are nonsense, yeah. And a lot of us think we're red pilled and we're awake to it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:15

We're and we're feeding into a different narrative that they're feeding us, and and actually, the next the next uh paragraph 15 here is actually it's about publishing, it is really good, and and so I I want to read it, but as I read it, keep in mind one, he's talking about you know, he's gonna talk about pamphlets, newspapers, newspapers, and and and think uh of what he's saying about that. Think how much more it applies to streaming, yeah, TV, too.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:45

Like holy cow, man, it is it is like he's talking about pamphlets and newspapers and even books because the printing press is around now and all these different, but it's still a level of, but it's also because the the freedom of speech in America, it's in our it's the first amendment right in America, and everybody's talking about freedom, and then then you have this narrative that comes out later on, especially after World War II, that the Germans were book burning and dictators are the ones who bookburn, but no, like a a country and a and a and a and rulers who care about their citizenry will burn books that will poison the the intellects of their of their citizens. And as the Catholic Church should absolutely have a book of banned, like a list of banned books that you should not read because they are poisonous to your spiritual life. That's why that's where the imprimatur comes from. Like, okay, this is okay to read. This is you know, we have to get approval by your bishop to make sure it wasn't filled with heresy and poisonous ideas.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:43

Yeah, yeah, bring back the index for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:46

But you know, then you might have stuff like uh divine word there, and but now I like you worry about even what an impramado looks like now from the same men who are giving us novel documents that are questioning whether same-sex unions are sinful. Like this is the this is this is this is where we have gotten to, but this is the church warning against this stuff and telling us this is going to happen in the church, and and basically, like this is why Father Mosley is so adamant to all of us when he talks with us. Like, cling to tradition, cling to tradition, read things like this, and cling to tradition because the tradition is is the truth, like it is like in the in the sacraments, in the liturgy, in in scripture, and in and popes from times past, you can still find the Catholic faith every one of us have access to God. Would not have put us in a situation where we wouldn't have had access to the truth during times like this.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:46

Excuse me.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:47

Um, so okay, so here we must include that harmful and never sufficiently denounced freedom to publish any writing, what uh freedom to publish any writings whatever and whatsoever and disseminate them to people, to the people, which some date some dare to demand. I have a crack on my screen, it's hard to see. Do you want me to read it? Got it. Uh, which some dare to demand and promote with so uh so great a clamor. We are horrified to see that monstrous doctrines and prodigious errors are disseminated far and wide in countless books, pamphlets, and other writings, which, though small in weight, are very great in malice. It's like you're talking. This is how the stupid 95 theses get around just in pamphlets because the printing press comes. I mean, this is Jack Chick tracks 300 years later, yeah. Um, we are in tears at the abuse which proceeds from them over the face of the earth. Some are so carried away that they contentiously assert that the flock of errors arising from them is sufficiently sufficiently compensated by the publication of some book which defends religion and truth. Every law condemns deliberately doing evil simply because there is some hope that good may result. Is there any sane man who would say poison ought to be distributed, sold, publicly stored, and even drunk because some antidote is available and those who use it may be snatched from death again and again? That's like when I used to defend Jordan Peterson and say, Yeah, but they you know, he's kind of bringing people towards the truth, which I still, you know, it's like um, I don't know if it's the same thing, but Charlie Kirk. There you go. You know, like he's giving you the truth and a lot of that poison mixed in, you know. It's like I'm telling you, I won't I won't read a book that's not thoroughly Catholic anymore.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:34

Like, if it's not a Catholic, well-vetted author, I don't want to read well, even when they say it's Catholic, I have to do research and like, is it actually Catholic?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:42

Yeah, yeah. Like, is it legit? Um, the church has always taken action to destroy the plague of bad books. This was true even in apostolic times. For we read the apostles themselves burned a large number of books. It may be enough to consult the laws of the Fifth Council and of the Lateran on this matter and the constitution, which Leo the Published afterwards.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:01

Um then let's see what what towards the end, towards the end it gets good of that paragraph. It says, thus it is evident that this Holy See has always striven throughout the ages to condemn and to remove suspect and harmful books. The teaching of those who reject the censure of books as too heavy and onerous a burden causes immense harm to the Catholic to the Catholic people and to this sea. They are even so depraved as to affirm that it is contrary to the principles of law, and they deny the church the right to decree and to maintain it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:37

Um I want to jump down to 19. Um Yeah, I didn't have anything until then.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:43

Um here surely belong the infamous, uh, the infamous and the infamous and wild plans of the Walden Waldensians, uh, the Wycliffes, the Wycliffites, and other such sons of Belial, Ball, I guess, who were the who were who were the sores and disgrace of the human race. They often received a richly deserved anathema from the Holy See. For no other reason do experienced deceivers devote their efforts, except so that they, along with Luther, might joyfully deem themselves free of all to attain this end more easily and quickly. They undertake with audacity any infamous plan whatever. Nor can we predict happier times for religion and government from the plans of those who desire vehemently to separate the church from the state and to break the mutual concord between temporal authority and the priesthood. It is certain that the concord which always was favorable and beneficial for the sacred and the civil order is feared by the shameless lovers of liberty. But for the other for before the other painful causes we are concerned about, you should recall that certain societies and assemblages seem to draw a battle line together with the followers of every false religion and cult. They feign piety for religion, but they are driven by a passion for promoting novelties and sedition everywhere. They preach liberty of every sort, they stir up disturbances in sacred and civil affairs and pluck authority to pieces. Um he also went um didn't he talk about um uh uh the the um the celibate priesthood in here also?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:22

Yeah, I have the that's towards the beginning. Let me go back to it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:24

I have it um yeah, fine where he talks about the celibate priesthood because you see, you see, I mean, like even under the Francis pontificate, if it wasn't for the intervention of Benedict and Cardinal Sarah, like we'd have been we'd have we we could have very well had that one on the docket.

Celibacy Under Attack

SPEAKER_04 1:08:43

Yeah, here we go. We want you to rally we want you to rally to combat the abominable conspiracy against clerical celibacy. This conspiracy spreads daily and is promoted by profligate philosophers, some even from the clerical order. They have forgotten their person and office and have been carried away by the enticements of pleasure. They have even dared to make repeated public demands to the princes for the abolition of that most holy discipline. But it is disgusting to dwell on these evil attempts at length. Rather, we ask that you strive with all your might to justify and to defend the law of clerical celibacy as prescribed by the sacred canons, against which the arrows of the lascivious yeah, lascivious are directed from every side.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:33

So, all right, so we're we're over an hour, we're gonna wrap this up. I want to wrap it up with his um exhortation to our blessed mother. Yeah, perfect. But um, what I am going to ask you guys is if you enjoyed this, because it's a little bit different. Like, we we want to try to do something a little bit different. We're gonna try to do these on Tuesday nights. So um we plan on going through Rareum Navarum eventually. We want to go through Cos Primus, we want to go through like we want to go through the next one.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:59

Is probably Quanticura in the um syllabus of errors.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:03

The syllabus of errors that's the one we would like to cover next. So, what I'm gonna ask you guys is please leave a comment, not in the live chat, in in the show, like you know, after the show is over. If you guys can, if you're watching this on replay, throw a comment in, let us know what you thought of it. If you guys are enjoying this and we'll we'll do these more often, I figure it's a good way for us to learn a little something and do something, do something different than everybody else is doing, you know. And I think Rob brings a really awesome angle because he's so good with history, and then we both go through the encyclical together and both of us just pull some insights from it and try to see how it works in our in our current current times, you know, and see how we can kind of extrapolate some ideas from it. But I I actually really enjoyed this, Rob. I thought it was awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:51

I yeah, I mean, the this part was fun, but but doing the research and reading it was good too.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:57

It's like it gets you excited about Catholicism again.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:00

Like, and it's a lot better than dwelling on than watching the news out of Rome, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:06

Yeah, it's like look, thank you, Vincent. Yeah, thank you, Vincent. It's it's edifying, right? Like this it's because sometimes the sometimes the stuff you cover like kind of gives you, you know, it's like taking you know you just constantly negativity. So yeah, I thought I thought this was really uh yeah. Well, that's kind of look, we I've been saying like we need to kind of figure out what we're gonna do next, right? Like, I don't want to talk about the Jews for a little bit, like I kind of got to give that a rest, and uh constantly obsessing on the end time stuff is like it kind of ran its course, but I do think if we can find some kind of a series to get into, and there's like there's all like when you get into Leo the 13th, that man wrote half the encyclicals ever written, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:49

What so one third of all encyclicals Leo the 13th, like yeah.

Closing Prayer And Community Requests

SPEAKER_03 1:11:54

So once once we get to him, like there is just going to be one bomb dropped after another. We're just gonna get into some really awesome stuff, but uh let us raise our eyes and hands to the most holy virgin Mary, who alone crushes all heresies and is our greatest reliance and the whole reason for our hope. May she employ implore by her patronage a successful outcome for our plans and actions. Let us humbly ask of the Prince of the Apostles, Peter, and his co-apostle Paul, that all of you may stand as a wall, as a wall, lest the foundation be laid other than that which has already been laid. Relying on this happy hope, we trust that the author and crown of our faith, Jesus Christ, will console us in all these our tribulations. We lovingly impart the apostolic benediction to you, venerable brothers, and to the sheep committed to your care as a sign of heavenly aid. Given in Rome at St. Mary Major on August 15th, the Feast of the Assumption of the Virgin in the year of our Lord 1832, the second year of our pontificate. So, okay, so we're gonna go over to locals. There's a couple of things that we have for locals tonight. Um, one is they're talking about disclosure is imminent. There was a group of Protestant pastors brought into a meeting to discuss that a meeting with government officials. Government officials met with Protestant pastors telling them that disclosure is imminent, you need to start preparing your flock. Um, then Rob had um um uh uh sent an article. It's um so there's something interesting happening where poor, like all the new converts are like kind of well educated and wealthier uh breed of Catholics that are converting into the church. And Rob and I had some actual like really um I'd like to I'd like to bounce because I we think this might this is probably because of a culture issue that I don't think anybody else would would would cover the way we are. So we're gonna do that. We're gonna do disclosure. Um we could talk, we could talk about the stupid Sonata report, but I almost don't really care to. Um you know, this is what we'll we'll we'll do some we'll do something fun on locals.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:02

Um that has popped up.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:06

Oh, we do have Pelican. We have Pelican, we have Pelican uh gossip. Um also we do have a few. Um, we had two two different um viewers of the show are talking with us about trying to set something up different than locals, maybe we'll see. We'll see how we'll see how that pans out. But either way, uh, this is the best way to support us, guys. Uh, we don't make anything on YouTube anymore. YouTube is robbing us. So if you guys, it's five bucks a month. We've kept it at five bucks a month, and I don't know anybody else that keeps it at five bucks a month. So if you guys can please reach into your freaking pockets and cough up five bucks, if you love this show, come to the answer show.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:48

It's um uh I do have some good news. A few weeks ago, um I asked uh everyone to support a GoFundMe for one of Hope's friends, and um Hope's friend and uh her husband um have gotten some job situations figured out and some health issues figured out, so things are looking good there. And they just wanted to thank everyone for their uh the um financial support and the prayers that were given. So thank you all. Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:15

Um, yeah, guys, if you break it down, we do eight locals episodes a month and we charge five bucks. You're talking about 70 cents an episode. Knock it off. I'm actually getting a little sick of how cheap you guys are. Every other show gets huge super chats. We get a few of you guys love us enough to appreciate it, and we love you guys that throw those super chats, but the rest of you cheap SOBs, I'm getting sick of you. All right, all right, Rob, take us down. Play the taffy outro.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:41

We talk to the Jews, and then you go and act like a dude.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:45

Play the taffy outro, and we'll see you guys on the other side.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:08

You know, you people suck so hard, it's just not even funny. You people make me want to sometimes really make me want to quit. Sometimes I hear what people talk about and say, and I'm just like, it's really it's really bumming me out. Like, it's really hard to hear that. Um, why don't you just talk about the end?