Mike Pantile Tells His Side of the Clash with Catholic Inc

Headlines, threats, and a thumbnail dust-up cracked open a bigger story: who decides what Catholics are allowed to hear? We walk through a sponsor-driven cancellation, the temptation to water down truth for access, and why the better answer is to build a new, open ecosystem where courage—not clout—sets the tone.

We get specific about the “woman question,” patriarchy, and the way language like “mutual submission” often blurs real responsibility. For us, patriarchy means sacrificial fatherhood ordered to salvation: a husband guards the perimeter so his wife and children can live in peace. When men lead in prayer, penance, and practice—Mass, confession, daily order—wives feel unburdened and homes become small churches. We draw on Scripture, the Fathers, and a Marian model of docility and humility to show why this isn’t a culture-war bit—it’s perennial Catholicism aimed at sanctity now.

Then we flip the conference playbook. Instead of marathon lectures and cocktail hours, we outline a format built for formation: 20–30 minute talks, long blocks of conversation, affordable tickets, and real access for smaller creators. Put it near a major airport, keep costs low, and let substance drive community. Along the way, we connect fortitude in public to the interior life: fasting against gluttony, penance against sloth, and daily prayer that sharpens the will. Beige Catholicism fades when men accept difficult duties and live them with joy.

If you’re tired of gatekeeping and hungry for clarity, this one’s for you. Listen, share your city suggestions for our launch, and tell us what would make a conference worth your time. Subscribe, leave a review, and send this to a friend who’s ready to build something braver.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Sorry, Susan, sorry, I didn't I didn't I didn't mean to do this down, but it's what I thought was free. I don't know I know I'm gonna still fix it, fix it, squeeze it.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Yeah, yeah, up you wait, up you can't wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, just wait. Just wait. Taffy's out of his mind. Oh my god, dude, Taffy's getting so good at this.

Legal Threats And Public Figure Pushback

Intent: Address Feminism’s Cultural Influence

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Taffy's out of his mind. So, um, we have to uh we have to discuss something. Um wow. I have to give a little backstory here. So Rob is uh Rob is uh away uh at his grandmother's funeral, and Rob does the thumbnails usually, and um he's away at his grandmother's funeral, and I didn't want to bother Rob. So I the kid that does the intro videos, I shot him a text and I was like, You think you can just throw a quick thumbnail together for me and and and do this for me? Because I'm I'm like I work construction all day, right? Um I'm out in construction all day. I I literally came home, jumped in the shower, and then we came on. And uh so Taffy made the the thumbnail for me. I actually thought it was Christine Harrington in the thumbnail. Uh, because I I don't I don't know, all these old ladies look the same to me. And um what happened was uh Mike got a text right before the show from Kyle saying that Katie Prajama Grady is threatening legal action for me using her image in my thumbnail, and uh and uh I have something to say to that. Like there's she must think I'm Kyle. Because I don't first off, like uh if Katie Prajaw McGrady is catching any uh flack for any of the stuff that's going down, like I don't want that at all. And I never mentioned her name. I honestly didn't even know who she was. I had no intention of mentioning her on our show tonight. Before we came, before we came on, me and Mike had a text exchange about two hours before the show. What was it? What was the text exchange that we had, Mike?

SPEAKER_03 2:44

You specifically said, and this was on my mind, it was funny how it worked out. You said, I don't want to kick Kyle while he while he's down. We just want to talk about just the general influence of feminism on the culture and how to change it, et cetera, et cetera, with the explicit mention of not mentioning any of these people, not talking bad about them, just a general sort of narrative on the infiltration of feminism within the church and in the culture at large, et cetera. It's specifically we talked about like two hours before.

Cancellation, Sponsors, And Backlash Strategy

SPEAKER_01 3:10

It's like I I have no, I don't even want Kyle to get any more crap. I I did my initial video because, like, my my philosophy for that was basically um, I think whenever somebody threatened like says you must cancel this person, the person that cancels them, like the repercussions need to be more severe than the actual cancellation, so that people don't do the canceling anymore. Like, that's that's the general rule now. So when somebody gets canceled, the backlash from the canceling has to be so severe that somebody goes, Yeah, I'd rather just deal with this person, pull their sponsorship than deal with the backlash from from everybody else. I literally did that video out of charity for Kyle, who is my friend, because I wanted Kyle to think deeply about what it means when you invite somebody to something and give them your word, you're gonna do something, and then you back out on the word because something happens, right? And it's like somebody's threatening you. Now, Katie, I I don't I don't even know you, and if you're gonna threaten me for using your image in a thumbnail, you're a public figure. There's no way you're suing me for using your image in my thumbnail. Have fun. I'd rather lose my home than let some tyrant woman tell me what to do, though. Like, honestly, it's not, and that's kind of the philosophy I think Kyle should have had. Like, I'm not going to let some woman dictate to me how I'm running my conference. So, look, I'm like I said, I don't want anybody going after Kyle, and I don't want anybody going after Katie Pejah McGrady. I don't want anybody doing any of that. What Mike and I have been discussing is we clearly need to set up an alternative ecosystem because we are not welcome in those spaces.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

That's the whole point. I mean, we were already talking about this before this blowup even happened. This was kind of bubbling up in the background, then boom, this thing erupted more than I ever thought it was going to erupt. Dude, it made headline news on X, bro. Yeah on the home page. What is going on? But I had suspected something to that effect was going to happen. I mean, this was the perfect launching pad for us talking about this. I think the best response to something like this is actually just changing the culture, making a conference that's actually edifying that speaks to men and helps to influence the culture, not as like a dunk on you, I gotcha type of thing, uh, but more so an actual charitable response and a prudential response versus just the shock jock BS that a lot of people were probably expecting. And this was a this was deliberate. I made the statement, didn't make a single mention of Kyle or or him, or even trying to disparage his character. This is what happened. Let the public square uh do the rest. And it's clear the narrative is shifted, shifting so bad, man.

Gatekeeping In Catholic Media

SPEAKER_01 5:43

What's amazing is like uh Christine Harrington did an entire video talking about me and you and Tim Gordon and all these people. Like, and it's totally fine when they do it, but like if we do it, it's so bad. And it's like I genuinely wish no ill will on any of these people, not Kyle, not Katie, Prajama Grady, not any. I don't even care about them. I spent a long time when I started this show really trying to like make sure I was kind to everybody in that space. I was like, dude, I'm I'm telling you, I was I I thought I was friends with Matt for and I don't want to put you in a bad position. I know Matt is actually the the one thing I will say is this like Matt, when you got canceled for a conversation you had with Matt, and Matt agreed with every single thing you said, yeah like you had a reciprocal conversation where you're both in agreement. Matt has since thrown you love repeatedly, mentioned your name repeatedly on the podcast, right? So it's I don't want to throw shade at Matt, even at this, because Matt is a stand-up guy when it comes to this topic. He's had uh Carrie Grass on who says, like literally the identical things that you guys are saying. It's like feminism from its inception is is demonic and is always against patriarchy. And it's not like you went on Matt's show and you were like, women shouldn't vote. You were like, No, no, no, if you look at the roots of feminism, even the even the suffragette movement from its inception, it was always about destroying the patriarchy. And Matt agreed with that. Now, nobody put demands on Kyle to remove Matt, and that's because Matt is the gravy train. And if you want to sell your books, and if you want to get if you want to get your podcast promoted, if you want to so they would never touch King Matt, and that's not a knock to Matt, like at all. Like, good. I'm very happy for Matt. It's just this toxic dynamic that they have going there, that's like they they'll let they'll let Matt in because he's so big, but the other guy's saying the same exact thing. We don't want them in our space, we're gonna gatekeep them out, and we're gonna make sure they don't get any kind of spotlight.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Yeah, well, the public's already dick dictated, you know, where the conversation is going. So you can only suppress the truth for so long, and that's where these young men, these young people coming into the church, people discovering tradition, etc., they're coming in and they're they're tuning in to our shows. They may not be you know as big, but the influence I would say is as close to that level of influence. And so Catholic Inc. I think has sort of a a kind of an idea that it's it's kind of spiraling out.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

It's a it's an older crowd, a much older crowd.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

It's an older crowd, it's captured by the feminists, and the future of the church is is is going to be very, very, very, very different than what it looks like right now.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Stop crying, Matt. You cry about everything, Matt. Stop crying.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

What was so ironic about this this conference, too, is this was supposed to sort of be a meeting of different people of we all obviously share the same Catholic faith, but different backgrounds and you know, dialogue and having a seat at the table. But you know, this guy talks about perennial Catholic teachings as it pertains to feminism and marital dynamics and women and femininity. Not that guy can't come, dude. Are you serious? Read St. John Chrysostom.

Why Build An Alternative Ecosystem

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Oh man, it's it's it's so much, it's so it's that's like so on the money, right? And like first of what really frustrated me about this is that anybody that actually watches Mike's content, like Mike has spoken about feminism and stuff, but 99% of Mike's content is like talking to men about getting into deeper spirituality about the saints, about lust, about like he's just all he's doing is encouraging men to be better men. But the the the whole idea behind women's submission, and it is something that you'd never hear from Catholic gang. And it goes to that um that that movie, the last female saint movie that came out. Remember, remember Gordon was all over it? Um uh uh Mother Mother Cabrini. Yeah, Cabrini, yeah, right. They presented Mother Cabrini, not not like that's not holiness for women, man. Like what like what when we're talking about obedience for women, we're not talking about like men, you have to be the boss of your wife because brrrr. It's it's literally the path to heaven for women. You it is actually it's it is what holiness looks like. So it's not it's not this dominant thing where you're trying to beat submission into your wife. It's like wives, you submit to your husband because he's he's your head and and he submits to Christ. And if you both want to get to heaven, you both better play your role, and your role is to submit to your husband. So, like having this docile spirit towards your husband is not because you're some cowering little you know i imp or something. I don't know what word I was looking for there, but it's not about that, it's about if you want to like you have to emulate our lady, and we have to emulate Christ, and that has a very specific pattern to it, and the the everything that the culture has presented now is this girl boss activist, and when they presented Mother Cabrini, Mother Cabrini was this like uh rebellious uh nun going against her hierarchy, and it's like it's so diabolical because women today don't actually have a good role model of a saint presented to them by the church.

SPEAKER_03 10:55

I mean, we we shouldn't be that surprised though. This really is the sin of the fall happening over and over and over again. In in men, you see the sin of effeminacy and irresponsibility and not calling these women out, and then in women, it's the sin of usurpation and they lack fundamental docility for Waz.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

It's like I look, I don't I don't want this, it's not like a tough guy shtick that I'm doing, it's just even even the way Kyle handled that whole thing. Like, I never want anyone to be hurt, right? And if Kyle has my he has my phone number, if he would have called me and said, Look, Katie has been catching a lot of crap since this whole thing went down, would you mind changing her? Like, I would have put Christine Harrington in it because she can't say anything, she's been throwing my face and thumbnails for weeks, you know. I would have, but I would have done that just out of respect for Katie because Katie really had nothing to do with this. I don't think she was the one who demanded you get canceled or anything. But the idea that I would respond to a threat after just paid it putting out a video telling Kyle never let women threaten you, like Kyle, Kyle, you you live in hell. I'm not kidding. You think you're running a conference, you have a bunch of women telling you what to do. That is hell, dude. You I don't know how you live in that world, and a lot of it is because it might it probably feels nice to be hanging out with guys like Scott Hahn and Matt Frat and Trent Horner. Like, I'm sure you're I'm sure that's a an alluring thing, and this isn't a knock to those guys. Like, I literally learned so much from those guys, but who cares? Like, wouldn't you rather put a conference on what the purpose of your conference was had such a good it had such a good purpose? It was like, let's get these guys who all come from because the we the Catholic Church is totally tribal right now, right? Like, I don't fit in, I couldn't give a talk at Matt Michael Matt's conference, I don't fit in with the crazy traders over there, I don't fit in with Catholic gang, I don't know where I fit in. So it's kind of just like I'm in this space where I'm just a freaking construction worker and I don't know where I fit in. I just know I'm a Catholic dad and husband, and I'm doing the best I can to be that. And there's a lot of guys that kind of relate to me because I'm not a PhD and I'm just kind of a normal guy. So I don't know where I fit in with those guys, but I'm also not gonna pretend I'm like them to fit in. I'm just gonna be me. And if they don't like me, they don't like me.

Double Standards And Platform Politics

SPEAKER_03 13:19

Well, that's the cost that comes with the truth. Ultimately, I don't care about closing up with anybody, I just want to be in my little corner of the internet, um, helping the guys that I help, running the business that I do and making the content that that has been helpful to a ton of people. Um in man, what's what's uh at its inception when Cal was explaining to me why Katie was going to be the main you know speaker and everything, and and by the way, I totally agree with you. Uh, if because he told me there was being threats and stuff being thrown thrown her way, dude. You and I, of course, we in our total agreement that we completely disavow that. Are you kidding me, dude? I would never like it.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

I'm telling you guys, don't do that. Like, this she's just a lady, like like this, don't go after, she's just some lady. And she honestly, like, you look through her tweets, and she's just like it's just meaningless dribble, like it's just nothing. Like, who cares? And it's funny because she tweeted out my thumbnail, and she's like, These guys just make me laugh. No, we don't just make you laugh, you're threatening to sue me. Like, just stop. But who cares?

SPEAKER_03 14:21

It really is clear. The the JQ is not the biggest, most controversial topic. It's the woman question, it's the woman question. Nobody wants to touch the woman question, nobody does, and the few that do, we get put on like Rad Trad Island when we're literally just quoting the saints and 20th century popes and you know, sacred scripture and traditions like what Joshua Charles said. If they're offended by what Mike Pantile has to say, just wait till they read the fathers.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

I can pull up five quotes right now that make you blush, and and and the fathers were concerned with women getting to heaven. That's the per that's the point. Like, it's not I can't stress this enough because it's whenever I hear a guy like in those in those circles defend first wave feminism or defend women having leadership roles, I'm just like, man, you actually are the devil, dude. Like you're poisoning these women, it's the most dangerous thing in the world because they they take these roles and then they usurp their husband's authority, and it just leads to this toxic dynamic in the home, and it's not and it's and it's bad for the for the soul, like essentially. That's what this comes down to. So when I when I hear these guys do that, I'm just I'm like irked by it, you know. And man, there's just it's just me so Mike and I have been like talking about like we just need to set up a separate ecosystem. Like, I don't, I'm not looking to hurt anybody over there. I'm not looking to be in, I don't, I don't want to be the drama, the trying to stir this thing up further. We just kind of want to do our own thing, so we're going to set up our own conference, and that's just what we'll have to do. And and we're gonna change the way conferences are done because I've been to a hundred conferences, they're the most boring thing you've ever been to. You sit there, like there'll be there'll probably be like three or four speakers out of 12 that you actually want to see, and then you're just sitting there and your back hurts for eight hours while you're listening to the people you don't care about, and really all you're looking forward to is the cocktail hour or the dinner where you can go and meet the people you wanted to listen to. So, what we're going to make the thing totally different, it's gonna be like these 20-minute, 30-minute talks, and most of the time is going to be spent hanging out with the people that came to meet us and want to talk with us and want to, you know, shoot ideas off us. I want to even give Catholic creators a free ticket, I'm not gonna charge them twelve hundred dollars to come and and uh you know meet each other because I would like for people that can't afford to go to a$1,200 conference to be able to come to something and network with other creators and bounce ideas off of each other. And I'd like to still be friends with a lot of guys in that space if they're not being welcomed into into the the upper echelons. Like, I don't know what it takes to get in over there. I really don't care. It was a very freeing thing for me when I realized like who cares what they think, like just do what just do what we do, and people will people if you build it, people will come. Like they just will just just do what what you feel is is on your heart and it'll draw an audience.

Defending A Friend Versus Internet Pile-Ons

SPEAKER_03 17:25

Well, I mean, if you're at the behest of any kind of narrative, I mean you're you're watering yourself down and you're you're you're you're selling out. I mean, how many of these young dudes coming up just want to be quote unquote influencers? And the ones that actually do become you know relatively popular, um, you know, I think we're relatively popular. I never set out to be a freaking influencer, neither did you know it's actually the most embarrassing thing. Are you kidding? Are you kidding me, man? I look at my wife, I'm like, I don't even know what do I do, what are we doing here, Karen? My wife's name is Karen. What are we doing here, Karen? I got the most bizarre, you know, quote unquote non-job in the entire world. I never asked for any of this. And if the Lord wants to take it away, he by all means can take it away. But there's clearly a shifting in the conversation, and we're and we're serious, guys. There's absolutely no way we're not doing this conference, it's not some sort of retaliatory response, it's a response because most of these conferences suck ass. That's why.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Yeah, and no, it's a necessity, and the thing is, it it's a necessity for us too, because like I want to meet the people that are watching the show that are are are in a similar spot because the the bigger thing is that what you're getting from these bigger content creators is a neutered version of Catholicism, like it's not real Catholic. Look, and uh okay, so the apologetics is good, right? And you do need to know apologetics in order to defend the faith against Protestants. So, like what Catholic Answers is doing, like, I'm not gonna knock that, like, that's very important. You need apologetics so you can combat the sola scriptura people. That's all well and good, but that's not like you could know every single argument against Protestantism. That's not being Catholic, like being Catholic is not a set of ideas that you assent to, it's a way of life, it's a way of living, and it's it's very um, it's very embodied in how you how you do things. And one of those things that I've just tried to display to the guys that watch my show is what it means to be a man, and one of the things it means to be a man is if a woman is in the wrong, you have to say no. I'm not saying just say no to women for no reason, but if she's wrong, like telling you you have to cancel this person or we're pulling our sponsors, like you have to put your foot down and just say, Look, I I gave this person my word, I'm not going to cancel them. If you'd like to pull out, that's fine. I wouldn't like, and even that, like the the person who put that Kyle in that position is the real villain. Kyle's not a villain, Kyle's just had a moment of weakness. Kyle's not a villain. Whoever put that pressure on him is a villain because they basically told him, if you don't get rid of Mike, we're gonna ruin your conference. And then by Kyle getting rid of Mike, it ruined his conference, yeah. And they get to stay hidden in the shadows and never have to deal with any of the blowback. And Kyle is sitting there dealing with hell on earth, like his whole world is collapsing around him. It is I don't know if he's I don't know what he's doing, but like because I talked to somebody that's very close to him today, and we were trying to figure out like what would be the best approach for Kyle to handle this. They said, honestly, it would be to come on my show and talk.

SPEAKER_03 20:27

We would have, and this is what I told him because we've we've had very charitable, good conversations before this even happened. And I said, Listen, man, you don't think there's going to be a ton of sponsors wanting to back you up. Our all audience is coming together because you're standing on business, you're standing on principle, and you're not kowtowing to these women. You're trying to do something with this conference, you're trying to actually promote dialogue, but what you're actually doing is just the status quo.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

You're listening to keeping it an echo chamber of the same thing. You brought nobody to the table that is outside of the Catholic Inc. echo chamber.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

100%, yeah.

Feminism, Saints, And Submission Claims

SPEAKER_01 21:05

The and I'm not knocking these guys because I genuinely like sips with Sarah, I genuinely like Cameron Riker, I like those guys, they fit in perfectly with that mold. But the thing is, like that they're what what his intent was is actually really important because what it is is we all see clips of each other on the internet, like we all see these little snippets that like somebody will post a clip, and then and sometimes it's out of context. So you might have an image of one of these creators, and you're like, Oh, that guy's a tool, or oh, that guy's cringe, or that guy, and then all of a sudden you meet that person face to face and they become real and they become a human, right? Like, I went to um uh Catholic Palooza with Enoch uh two years ago, and he was performing there, it was in New Jersey, and he stayed at my house, and I brought him there, and I met Franco there. I met uh I met a couple of guys there that are in that crowd, and I had a really good time with Franco, and like I had seen some of Franco's stuff online, and I was like, uh But then when I met him in person, I was like, he's just a Catholic guy, he's a he's a young guy, and he's just trying his best to try to figure things out. And it and it humanized him to where when I saw other guys ragging on Franco, I kind of like felt bad. I was like, ah, he's a good kid. I'm not I'm not gonna join in on that. And that's what Kyle's intent was is to get us face to face to avoid things like this. Because if you have me and Mike at your conference, now it's like, ah, you don't want to throw a shot at Kyle, you're his friend. You met him in face to face, and now it totally just exploded. And now we're now Christine Harrington's doing her videos about us, and we're doing our videos about him and Katie Pajama McGrath. It's just all so gay.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

It's gay, it's gay, it's effeminate, it's it's absolutely weak. You know, these people are not interested in dialogue. I'd sit down with any of them. Let's have a conversation. They're not interested in dialogue, they're interested in controlling the dialogue. That's it, because they don't want to, they don't actually want to humanize you, they want to villainize you.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Yeah, Jim's not wrong here, man. Like, I don't, I don't, I was I told a story the other day that uh uh uh Alex from Hallow DM'd me because he saw I think he saw people like trashing Hallow because they have celebrities and stuff. And I I wrote a comment just like kind of promoting Rob's thing, and he took it like I was throwing a shot at him. But when he DM'd me, it kind of put me in a personal relationship with him at that point. It's like I'm not gonna trash Hallow. Alex is a fan of mine and he likes my stuff. It's like that's actually the right way to go about it. So, what Kyle was attempting to do was right, but what he did was the total opposite because he let these women dictate to him who is and is not allowed inside the inner circle. It's like this is this is gatekeeping. This is what gatekeeping is, and it's it's frustrating. And what frustrated me with I and I don't want to put you in this situation because I know he was good to you, but it frustrated me with Matt Frad because I was friends with Matt. Matt and I talked on the phone, Matt and I texted each other, he would give me advice on shows that he watched of mine, he came on my show, but never would he have me on his show, and I'm just like, I don't get it. He's having he's having Alex Herado on his show, and he's having he's having the people he had on his show. I'm just like, I don't get it. Like, I don't understand that. It's just it's it seems strange to me that you're this friendly with me behind the scenes, but you won't even dare mention my name on your show. And I'm just like, there's something there, it's like they're ashamed to say that they know me because I might be a little brash on Twitter or something. Instead of humanizing me and having a conversation with me, and it it that put the initial bad taste in my mouth. And when that happened, I was just like, Good, whatever. They uh they're too good for me. That's fine. You guys can't hang out with the riffraff, cool.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

But it's it's clear that that that you know it's it's it has not had an impact on your reach in any sort of way. I mean, the guys that go hard for A B go hard in the paint for A B. The reach, I mean it uh relative subscriber size, maybe not the biggest, but man, you know how many conversations I have with guys that are saying I found you in avoiding Babylon or Anthony and Rob's show is like my favorite show. Dude, it's it's like every other guy.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

It's uh well, it's like this though. Uh so oh Majarian, right? Majarian and Anthony and uh the kid who has a terrible mic, I always forget his name. Uh there, they do the Latin Slavs podcast, right? Now I see the younger guys coming up, and I'm like, I want to help these guys. I I want to have them on my show. I want to mention them constantly on the show. I want to take them under my wing and help them in any way I can. Like, I don't understand why the guys over there don't have that mentality of let me help the next guy come up. It's almost like I'll have this guy on if it'll raise my profile or if I'm gonna get a lot of views on it. So I'll have some I'll have some TikTok influencer on because she has a big following on TikTok and I want that audience to come. It's always uh, it's always like um it's uh uh oh man, what the what what would you call that? Like the the the relationships are always like monetary exchange, it's not it's not like genuine care, like oh man, I like that guy. I want to help I want to see his platform raised because I like him. And it and it happens with a lot of people in that realm, and it's just frustrating.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Well, they're beholden to the the the algorithmic meat grinder, yeah. That's ultimately what it is, and is they want to continue to grow the subscriber base, their Patreon based or whatever, without sort of causing any sort of riff-raff. And then what happens? You you become beige Catholicism, and that's going by the wayside very, very, very quickly. I I mean, just the response. I mean, I was so I mean, part of it felt I felt really bad because it blew up more than I ever could have possibly expected. But the overwhelming support, man, I had no idea, man, because I'm like, I'm a nobody, and here's yeah, go ahead.

Marian Devotion And Models Of Holiness

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Because, like I said, this happened with Enoch last year, and Enoch asked me not to say anything, and I said, Okay, I'll respect you if you don't want me to say anything, but I wanted to, but I didn't. And you told me about it a week before Kyle made the announcement, and you asked me, you said, Anthony, please don't say anything. I don't, I'm not, you know, you you were like, I don't, I don't want this to happen. But once Kyle made the announcement, that kind of gave me then. I'm then I'm free to say what I have to say because I would have I would have kept it quiet if you had asked me to, but once Kyle made the announcement, it's like, okay, now this needs to be addressed because it's a public thing now, and it just it just sat so wrong with me the way he the way he handled that. I got canceled from a conference in North North Carolina last year, um, the the North Carolina men's conference. And I got I got canceled because I had some somebody who was like obsessed with me sending tons of emails to the bishop directly, to the parish uh secretary. So it put them in such a bad position. It wasn't their fault. Like the men's conference had nothing to do with it, and they were like, Look, we have to take you off the promotional materials just because we're catching so much grief. And I said, I said, Listen, why don't you do this? I will still promote it to my audience and I will help you sell this thing out and still bring me down, and I just won't give a talk. And it's like we worked it out like men, and I was still paid to go, and I didn't have any desire to hurt them. And it's like that's kind of how relationships should work. It shouldn't, it could have been handled in such a different way, where Kyle could have spoken to the sponsor that was threatening this, and then he could have said, Look, what if we make sure that Mike Pantile and your product is never in the same image? So this way, here there's no confusion to see to make it look like you're promoting him, but let me at least still honor the the contract that I offered him.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Like, there's just there's no way that he well to be fair, to be fair, the initial conversation was well, we'll you know, we'll still have you come down. I'm like, no, yeah, okay. I'm not coming down, I'm not coming down. Yeah, no, yeah. If you're gonna neuter me and chop me off at the legs and I can't speak with Keith on masculinity, you want to have me there as some sort of like it's okay, just come here, nice gesture. No way, yeah, bro. I'm walking right away, dude. Stand on business or don't. I'm not gonna show up. It's not like I'm another one.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

I don't blame you. Those the the reason why I think I made that agreement with the men's conference is because it was a guy obsessed with me that was like it was a very different situation where this is what happened with you was just some women thought they should they they like dude, the audacity of these women to demand he ruin his conference is so preposterous to me. It's like I I I I feel bad for Kyle that he caved, like because he would have never you don't know the freedom there you would have had, Kyle, if you would have said, even if you take the venue away, I'll move it somewhere else. I'll go rent the night to Columbus and we'll still do this thing. Like, but I'm not going to betray my friend who I told I was doing it with because I would have I would have put the money in personally for whatever that sponsor pulled out. Like I and not just that, I would have got all the all the I would have got nicknecks.com, nicknag.com, use code ab 25% for your first for your first purchase. I would have gotten them to sponsor the event. I would have gotten uh shoplobster.com to sponsor the event. Like I'm sure we could have got Reckies and Sellers to sponsor, but the point is we could have gotten a dozen people to fill in that that gape that gap that that gaping hole that was left by the sponsor that decided to pull out. And that and courage inspires people. So if you have the courage to stand by the guy, you're gonna do all you're gonna do is you're gonna make people want to go to your conference. You would have you would have had that thing sold out, the VIP would have been sold out, everything.

Mutual Submission And Male Responsibility

SPEAKER_03 30:53

And I want to say this with a degree of sympathy too, because I know what it's like. You know, you've got a you've got a you know uh growing family, you just quit your main gig. This is your this is now your main thing. You know, financial situation is not not the greatest. I totally get it, dude. I was in a position with my gym when COVID popped off, where I'm like, okay, either I bend the knee to all these like you know insane rules and try to stay open, or I just rebel. I have a kid coming. My first my first daughter wasn't even born yet. And I was at this fork in the road, and it was a bro sitting me down saying, Listen, I know what you're made of. What are you gonna do? Are you gonna be a man and stay 10 toes down on business? Are you gonna cower? Yeah, and I kept it, dude. I I had the the doors locked from the inside, walls boarded up, but I stayed in business. I'm like, Lord, I have a mortgage, it's my first home that I bought. I have a pregnant wife, and you know what happened to your point? My business exploded, and and God rewards courage, man.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

God rewards courage, like he just does. It's like we we need courageous men so bad. We got we I honestly, man. I I feel bad for the men in that space because they're not free. They may have big platforms, they be they may be making a lot of money, but you're not free because you're beholden to your donors, you're beholden to your sponsors, you're beholden to everybody. Nobody tells me a thing about what I could say. My wife might give me some input, but it doesn't usually go well.

SPEAKER_03 32:16

Well, this is the last thing.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

I don't listen to her either.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

I don't listen to anybody, dude. Dude, uh, the virtue that's lacking is fortitude. And it's not the inability to do that is what is arduous, it's the unwillingness to do what is arduous. Like, what are you made out of? The matter by which you were created. Are you you're just gonna buckle and fold like a cheap suit? No, you're it's unwilling to do you're you being unwilling to do the hard thing. That's a feminine 101, dude.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Sam, uh Mike, Mike would I so uh Mike, I I reached out to Sam today. Sam, Mike would love to get you on. He said you're a hero to him, you helped him learn a ton about the faith.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

Halal Hogan. I love you, Sam Shamoon. Seriously, dude.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

I'd love to hook you guys up.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

Yeah, no, I love you, Sam. Seriously, no. We gotta we gotta hook up, it'd be it'd be incredible, dude.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Um it doesn't listen to Rob. No, I don't. Well, honestly, the thing is, I'll always listen to fraternal correction. Um, like give him my number. Sam said it in the chat. Give him my number, we gotta hook it up. Sam, I love you. Let's go. Um, like Josh had mentioned last night. There's there's been several times where Josh has reached out to me and been like, I think that tweet's a bit much, and I'll delete it because I I trust his judgment. If if Rob tells me, eh, you went a little too far with that tweet, I will delete it. Like, I always listen to fraternal correction, and I would even listen to somebody coming to me and saying, Hey, um, I could use your help here, and you know, this is gonna be harsh on this person. Like anybody that comes to me and like like as a man and asks me something, I'll never say no. I don't I don't have any desire to hurt anybody, but the way that even the text exchange before we came on, like threatening to sue me for a thumbnail, like Katie.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

I dare you, I dare you to sue me.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Everybody, you want to start a war, we'll start a war, honey.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

But I don't think you want that, dude. Everybody gets you so wrong. I knew the type of dude you were the first time I listened to you, and then we met in person, and like my daughters love you, my kids love you, my wife loves you. Like this, everybody gets Anthony so wrong. Are you guys just all so weak and and and sensitive? Like, he's a guinea from New York. What do you expect, man?

SPEAKER_01 34:25

It's well, so much of it is people are super sensitive, right? Like, like what I was doing in that video to Kyle. Like, look, I'll give you an example, man. Like, I posted something on on Twitter one time, and Bug Hall texted, uh tweeted back at me. He goes, That's the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in my life. And it was something, it was like a a picture, it was uh it was like a uh I don't even want to say what it was, but it was a picture of uh like a personal picture or something, right? And I could have been like, I could have blocked him and been all upset, and I just deleted the picture and I DM'd him. I was like, dude, thank you. Like, thank you. Like some like I needed to hear, like, and I never posted a picture or anything like that ever since. Like, that's how men communicate in my world. I don't know what like in my world, you make fun of your friends, and and I what I was doing with Kyle there was like as a brother, like Kyle, come on, man, man up, like go tell this sponsor no. That's all I was trying to encourage him to say no.

SPEAKER_03 35:26

And well, the strategy here, Anthony, is backwards because he's like, Okay, if I can just do this and get in with them, I can change it. No, dude, that's not how this works, bro. If you set the precedent from the beginning that this is how you're going to do it, every time you'll do it to you every time. It's like when you cave to the mob and you apologize for something that you shouldn't have apologized for, dude. It's never enough. They will cannibalize you and eat you alive. That's how it goes. And you'll just have to further and further compromise the truth and water yourself down. And I hope that doesn't happen to Kyle. Like I said, and I meant that meant that sincerely. I hope the conference does well and I wish him and his family well. But this is the conversation that we had for like an hour before this all happened. I'm like, dude, we're gonna rally behind you, and this will legitimize your conference, not because I'm anybody, but because of what what's happening at the heart of this, the principle of the matter.

Conference Vision: Format, Cost, Community

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Yeah, I like I said, I feel I feel bad for him because he's not free, right? Like he thought he was gonna put this conference on, and it's not his conference. It's whoever told him he had to get rid of you, that's their conference. It belongs to them. Yeah, it belongs to them. That's not your conference. So, and it put this shadow over the entire event now, and um, it's sad because it it was a it was a good idea, man. Like it really was. It was a good idea to get people talking who don't normally talk, put people in a room together. I mean, last conference he got he got uh Christian Wagner, excuse me, he got Christian Wagner and Amber in the same room, right? And because Wagner was like writing things about Amber constantly throwing little shade at her shit, and then once they meet in a room together, now he meets her her husband. Now Christian's disarmed. He's not gonna go and make he's not gonna go and make fun of the wife of the the guy he just had a good time with, you know.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

And I guarantee you, dude, if I were to go to the if and if it all worked out, I would get along with Katie, I get along with these feminists that they wanted to count. I can guarantee you if we were just in the same room and we got to a chance to speak, this wouldn't even be a thing. They'd be like, I can't believe I didn't want this guy to come. That's a guarantee. Did they really think I was gonna go there and like the nice guy?

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Like you would have gone. I they think that you would have gone and like like given a talk about how women shouldn't vote. It's like it's so dumb. We know, like, we're not taking when nobody's getting rid of the 19th amendment. It's in it's a ridiculous conversation to be honest. It's like it's not going anywhere. Women vote. I don't know. In principle, no, they probably shouldn't, but that's not changing, so it's like a it's just a it's a it's a dumb, like uh um attention getter, right? Like the guy who's like, oh, women shouldn't vote, and it's like but like nobody's changing the constitution. The 19th amendment isn't going anywhere. The the whole point of it was no, when you understand the suffragette movement, it started off as an anti-patriarchy movement. It was it was actually about subverting the priesthood. That's really what it was about. It was about subverting the Catholic priesthood from its inception. Now, if we can't talk about that, you're telling us we can't talk about a thoroughly Catholic issue.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

And it's my main issue and my whole topic was gonna be I care about the men, I care about especially the young men that are dooming about marriage, about the economic crisis, about all these things that have merit, these concerns that legitimately have merit, but they have their fathers failed them, their priests aren't having these conversations with them. That's who I'm trying to speak to because it's gonna be those very men that we strengthen and we embolden through discussions about sacred scripture, tradition, the virtues that are gonna help lead these women out of feminism. That that's it has this widespread effect on the culture. If you can influence the men, the heads of society, to make them realize whose image and to remind them whose image and likeness they were created in, man, the whole culture transforms. This is why the attack systematically is on the family and on the man, because the if the man's asleep at the wheel, nobody keeps the faith, and nature abhors a vacuum. The women step into that vacuum and everything goes belly up because they don't want that role. They think that they do, but they don't want that role. That's the whole point. That's why I would have spoken. Me and the Keith would have set the freaking stage on fire.

Influence Over Clout: Helping Smaller Creators

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Yeah, and the women would have liked it because you're gonna inspire the men to be better men, and it's like like the the the rant everybody got mad at me for last week or two weeks ago that I did like the whole point was I just see so much complaining in the trad movement, and I'm like, how like how are we complaining? Like, first off, we live in the lap of luxury in America, and we still have everything, and persecution's coming, in my opinion. So, if we're complaining now, what do you think it's going to be like like when things actually get hard? And and the whole point wasn't to rag on people, the whole point was to inspire men to stop complaining on the internet and and being whiny little girls about things. First off, because it doesn't attract a woman, and a lot of the guys are single, and if you're complaining all the time, a woman's gonna look at that and she's gonna go, I don't need a boy who needs a mommy. Like, no woman wants no boy, no woman wants a little boy, a woman wants a like a leader and a protector and a provider, and uh, and she wants somebody that's gonna care for her soul, and you're not showing that when you're complaining on the internet, so that was the point of that. And that it's like this is the purpose of these conversations, is not to rag on women, yeah. Feminism sucks. We we're victims of feminism, yeah. Women are victims of feminism, but that's like it's mine and Mike's role to inspire the men to be better men, and we're hoping that some of these women actually they because they'll say with their lips, oh, we don't we're against feminism, we're not feminists, but then they do in their actions, everything is feminist, especially the conservatives. The conservative, the conservative Christian women are some of the most feminist lunatics I've ever come across because they truly believe they're not feminist because they voted for Donald Trump or something.

SPEAKER_03 41:08

So true. I want to give a shout-out to uh Christian Wagner. I'd uh I've been wanting to get on a on a stream with that dude. He just said, Let's do a stream together. Christian, hit me up after Lent is done. I'd love, I'd love to chat with you, brother.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

Also, Caleb over at a new crusade. Oh, yeah, I dude. I love Caleb, man. Caleb and a new crusade, like 100%. Um, Caleb and a New Crusade and uh Latin Slavs. Like, I want I want those guys and uh and Ryan at um pre-conciliar radio. Oh, those those are those are my boys. I want to see them do do as as well as possible. Like, I want to help the next generation of guys trying to do it. It's not easy to people think it's easy to do podcasts, man. It's not, it's really not. It's hard to hard to grow an audience, it's hard to get other people to to you know decide they're gonna spend their time with you and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 41:58

But how quick they're they're they're people are are quick to judge my character. It's like, do people not realize that like through patriarchy, I brought my wife and my entire family into the fold of the Catholic Church and how much has transformed our lives? Have they read listened to my content where I literally there's not a single thing that I haven't mentioned about the brokenness of my life, like laying it out like psych ward visits, addiction, gooning, fornication, the whole bit. Like, do you they really think I'm stamping here with a freaking hammer talking about the patriarchy?

SPEAKER_01 42:27

And like it's it's so it transformed your life, and you want to give the gift that transformed your life to other men. That's exactly that's all it is. It's literally the same thing that happened to me, and it's like I've seen such a transformation in my marriage, I've seen a transformation in my relationship with my children, I've seen a transformation in my job and how I how I relate to every single person in my life, how I view people now. I used to get annoyed with people and want to cut them out of my life, and now I literally look at everybody like they're a they're a precious child of God and they have to get their souls saved. So it's like, how do I handle this situation differently? I've I it's it it makes a boy go to a man and and and become a father to to everyone around him, not just his wife and children, but all the people in his orbit. He wants to become a father to because he cares for them. And it's that's that's really the essence of patriarchy, is having a father's heart and caring for the souls that are in your care, dude.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

Because it your authority that the authority that flows from your office as father and husband isn't for you. It's like these women are are being a lot of them, are being intentionally, uh, intentionally uh obstinate about this and not willing to listen to it listen to it. But we really talk about patriarchy, it's not about us ruling the roost, it's about like we are the sacrifice, yeah, of the household.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Yeah, and and this look the the the the men who push mutual submission, like you don't realize what you're saying. You are you are actually denying. Your own authority to God. Like, if you had any idea the responsibility you have as a man, like the authority and the responsibility that God is putting in you as a man, you are literally the emblem of God the Father of everyone in your life. If you start saying you're you're it you you agree with mutual submission, what you are saying is I'm not gonna take responsibility for my wife's soul, I'm gonna I'm gonna let her have responsibility for my soul instead. Not that your wife doesn't have because you do have responsibility for one another's souls and that you both get one another to heaven, but you as the man in the home are actually going to face a judgment for if your wife and children do not get to heaven. And if you I am trying, yeah, if you start saying mutual submission, like you're uh you're rejecting your authority and role, and you will be held held to account for that.

Courage, Fortitude, And Standing On Principle

SPEAKER_03 44:54

What we're trying to do is unburden our wives. That's the process. It's I if you believe in mutual submit, you are burdening your wife and your children unnecessarily, and you will be have to you will have to make an account for that. The whole point is unburdening them. So they are when my I go up. My wife used to have a job, she worked from home, all this other stuff. I completely ripped her away from that stuff. Completely, I said, Listen, I care about and I love you so much that I just want to protect our little church here. You do what God has designed you to do, and I will protect the perimeter. That's my job, and nothing has has made a more greater transformation, a transformative effect on my marriage than that. That's the point that I'm trying to convey.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

100%. And not just that, because something happened in in my marriage where when once my wife knew she could trust me with her soul, right? Like once she knew, like I actually will guard her soul, it was almost like she was like, Oh, thank gosh, I don't have this responsibility anymore. Like, I like she wanted to give that responsibility to me. She knew I would be the one to making sure the whole family goes to confession if we need to, we all go to mass every week, that we're all doing whatever devotions we're doing as a family. Like, she knows she can leave that in my care because I am the priest of the home. That is not a light responsibility for a man, like any woman that thinks she wants equal equality with their husband, you're insane. Insane, you're absolutely insane. You do not know the the responsibility that we will be held to account for. It's not, it's not a light task that God has given men. And and the thing is, like most men today, um, we you go through life and you're expected to just do so many things. You are as a man, like you're expected to keep keep the finances together, you're expected to keep the home in order, you're expected to keep everything together, and you have to do that without burdening anybody else with the stress that's on you, right? Like there's so many times I was so stressed out about financial things. I never burdened my wife with it because I wanted her to be free to do what she needed to do in the home. I never lied to her, she always knew everything that was going on, but it was always my burden to carry. And it it's it's just some I want her to, like you said, I want her to be free of that burden so I can carry it because we are better suited to carry it as men.

SPEAKER_03 47:13

That's exactly right. I mean, it it reminds me that I think the true moment, the pivotal moment in in my marriage is when um we're gonna get our marriage convalidated. And I was like, we're not you me, me and you right now, in the eyes of the Lord, are brother and sister. I love you so much that I'm barely even gonna look at you until this is we have this sacrament, because that's how much I care for your soul and the and the example that I'm setting for our daughters.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

Like this is there's nothing that made your wife look at you in more like admiration than that, I guarantee it.

SPEAKER_03 47:46

That was the thing, dude. She started OCIA like two months later, man. That's exactly what happened. And then we brought, I brought her to the Latin Mass in that moment when we were kneeling and she was receiving the pre the the blessing of mothers when our son was was baptized in the traditional rite, and she was just weeping, just weeping, and she'll say it almost daily, weekly like this changed my life. We go to the Latin Mass, we're Catholic now. I thought you were insane at first, but nothing. This has been the greatest thing that we've ever done. I can't believe we've done this together. Like, praise be to God. I mean, dude, I mean, enough said, mic drop.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

And it's just like if you presented this message to that conference, like the women there that didn't want you there would have been happy to hear this. Like, I just don't they just it's just frustrating, and a lot of it is likely because of guilt by association, yeah, because you were involved in Tim's documentary because you were on CMASk, and it's like yeah, I don't know. It's I don't care. I don't I don't do guilt by association first off. Um like anybody that actually goes and looks at anything you've put on the internet, and I mean anything, like I've never seen a I've never seen a bombastic tweet from you, I've never seen a video that I was like, oh, I don't know if I would have done every single thing you put on the internet, you are very prudent about, you are very like responsible. You're not me, that's for sure. I fire off anything that comes to my mind, so it was just very frustrating. That's I think because the the two things happened with the situation was it one was I was hoping Kyle would actually hear what I had to say, but the other was like, I'm I'm going to war for my brother right now, and a lot of people thought that was just a pile on, and it wasn't, it was actually loyalty to Mike. Like, most of the people that piled on are like, I'm going to war for my boy right now. Like, it's it's not just uh an internet pylon, it it really was this sense of loyalty to Mike. These are guys who have watched conversations. I've had with Mike on my show, they're watching his show, and it's like, I like this guy, he's a stand-up guy, and they're canceling him unjustly. That's what it was.

What The Talk Would Have Been About

SPEAKER_03 49:59

And that's exactly why I came out with the statement. I said injustice. I can't, you know, withhold the truth from people and then let that statement go out where yeah, he's a man of upstanding character, but he's been uninvited with no context. Like, you know, if if we're gonna do that, just stand on business if you're doing that too, man. Like, what is this? Can we just speak like men for the love of God? Because like, I'm not trying to come out your throat, but injustice, I've got to let everybody know what happened. And you ever you guys tell me some people told me I was too nice in that message.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

It's like it's kind of I I it's kind of crazy because it's like girls ruin everything. Like, why why do you girls gotta ruin everything? It could have been such a good, it could have been such a good thing you guys had. I don't know why they gotta ruin it.

SPEAKER_03 50:43

And if they look if they watched what a woman is, what was I talking about? That was the same day my my daughters got baptized. The end credits are me holding my little girls walking out of the church, and you heard a thing that I said. There was not a single inflammatory thing said about women, it was all about protecting them because that's what ultimately it is rule by fathers, it's the means by which a man protects his family.

SPEAKER_01 51:06

I'm sorry, go ahead, finish that.

SPEAKER_03 51:08

No, go ahead. No, it's all good.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

I was just gonna say, like, it's literally the divine order, right? I mean, all fatherhood in heaven and earth is named after God the Father. Like, that's a the that I think that I don't know if that's uh Philippians, might be see the yeah, I think it's Philippians. Like, all fatherhood in heaven and earth is is like an icon of God the Father. The the the patriarchy is divinely inspired. That's why we have a priesthood. It's it's the divine order of things, and holiness looks very different in men and women, and that's really what this comes down to. It's like the the the activist woman, the woman who thinks the woman who's on the internet and she thinks it's her job to go and correct these men, like that is such an ugly trait. Like, go live your life, go, go, go, go, go, go be peaceful in your family. Why do you care what what these men on the internet are doing?

SPEAKER_03 52:01

And emulate the blessed Virgin Mary. Why I I mean we say this all the time. It's it sounds like a bit of a overused quote, but they'll emulate anybody else in the Bible except for the Virgin Mary. Like, I it's so obvious to me. It's Deborah, it's Esther, it's whatever dude, it's every mother Cabrini, but you're not that exception makes bad law. That is the ultimate, she's the ultimate example for us, too, in docility and submission and humility. And I can say that as a man, and it's like little perfect woman is the example for me. You can't use her as the example, it's so retarded.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

Not just that, like, they'll come out with the craziest stuff and say things like, Um, uh, well, Mary wasn't submissive. Jesus was submissive to Mary. If Jesus did what she said, it's like, do you not actually understand what's going on in that story there? Like, are you people crazy? I I heard because that's what that's what Katie Prajna McGrady actually caught a lot of flack for. Somebody found an old tweet of hers, an old tweet of hers where she said Mary was anything but submissive. And it's like, do you wow? You could actually they they really do have a distorted view of our lady.

SPEAKER_03 53:12

And there are more men that are devoted to Mary than women devoted to Mary, isn't it? A funny observation that I see that there's so many Marian men because it harkens back to our that's that's our ancestry. If you look at all the crusader kings, and even before that, all these Saint Ambrose going way, way back, all these men were devoted to Mary.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

The chivalry movement was born out of Marian devotion. So when men understood that our lady was the crown of creation, there they held all women up as these precious things. We veiled them because they were holy, and men just wanted to be chivalrous to these holy things. And what happened is women started getting this idea that they were men, and it's it's they started taking on male personality traits. Now, look, there's there's going to be different temperaments, right? So there are going to be like type A type of women and stuff, and it's going to be much harder for women with that type A personality to be docile, but like you have to be, and it, and and that's actually what your training in holiness has to be. It's that you're going to want to lash out with all your being, and God's calling you to holiness. And it's a hard thing, and I'm not going to judge people because there's a lot of things God's calling me to that I'm not doing. But it's it's much more appropriate for me to lash out because I'm a man than it is for a woman to act like that.

SPEAKER_03 54:35

But what is the pursuit of holiness if it's not militating against your own defect or defects? That's that's what it is.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

Yeah, you're 100% right. It's to actually try to try to actually change your temperament if that's your initial instinct. You want to actually temper your temperament.

Stop Complaining, Start Leading

SPEAKER_03 54:53

Yeah, you want to restrain your flesh, restrain your fallen nature and subordinate it to higher reason, intellect, and will. I mean, this is exactly what I talk about all the time. It's like, guys, know yourself, know your defects and militate against your defects. And for the for the women, it's usurpation. That's this is what it is. It's a lack of docility. And you would be more at peace, more loving, more joyful if that's what you actually did, if you didn't actually act like men. It's that is your flesh dictating what your appetites are dictating what you're doing. And you have second things first and first things second. It's what I tell guys all the time. This is this is this is the drum that I beat on consistently. Because that's what it is. I mean, as deep as our faith is, man, because it's deep and it's there's theological depth, philosophical, intellectual depth. But at the end of the day, it's dying in a state of grace and militating against your defects. What is it?

SPEAKER_01 55:43

Yeah, constantly, constantly battling the flesh, right? I do what I don't want to do. Saint Paul, I do what I don't want to do. That's that's what it is. Yeah, and we're not Protestants, so it's not just like, oh, I believe this thing, and when I mess up, I just go to confession. It's like, no, we have to actually work on these things, and as you root these things out of your life, you start to see other areas blossom. Because sorry, sorry, go ahead. We're talking over. No, no, no. Like as you root these things out of your life, like other areas of your life blossom and relationships blossom, and you and you, and you just you just have God's presence with you way more often, and and understanding too, the double consequence of sin is temporal and spiritual.

SPEAKER_03 56:26

Yeah, okay, the guilt is is forgiven in confession, but you guys forget like every time you commit a sin, I mean, if you're not practicing penance, this is what Fatima said. Penance, man. Don't just like okay, go to confession, I'm good. It's like, no, it's it's it's constant militating against vice, constantly. That's it. It's like purgatory shouldn't be the goal, dude. That should not be the goal, it should be a state of sanctified perfection.

SPEAKER_01 56:49

Yeah, it's kind of crazy that so many people are like, Oh, I'll just do time in purgatory. It's like, what? What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_03 56:55

The saints never thought that. They never thought that. They're like, Okay, I'm gonna spend an hour a day in meditation, in silent meditation. That's why I tell all guys meditate, don't just like like a clanging symbol, just say these prayers all day because you think you're good, you're not good. That is like the first level of prayer, rudimentary. You're crawling around. It's like, okay, you go to confession, and then what are you gonna do? Become an actual saint. That happens like now, as while we're living, while we still have the opportunity to do so.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

Yeah, that's something I was trying to stress so much when I was when I was on that rant the other day. It's like people have this idea that like being Catholic is about going to heaven, and it's not, it's like being Catholic is about having eternal life now, and eternal life now, it should it should flourish in every area of your life because you're like it's not me who lives, but Christ who lives through me. Like you you should definitely have a change in you and the way in the way you see everything. You should have a whole paradigm shift and you should be renewing your mind, and it's about having joy now and and and like we go and receive Jesus Christ in the flesh every week. How could you not be different? You know, it's like I I have such a hard time with the with the with the sour push trads.

SPEAKER_03 58:12

I'm just and the content's not edifying anybody, dude. This apologetic stuff is not doing anything anymore. We're talking over what's essential, or okay. Let's talk about the real thing. The cross is a war memorial, it's the tropion. You this Satan was put under the yoke of Christ. We operate from victory. Let's talk in militaristic language where it's ground and pound in the spiritual realm, where you're this gentle, you're a gentle giant with your family, but in the spiritual realm, you're a grunt, you're nasty.

SPEAKER_01 58:40

Yeah, I'll tell you, I think the reason that they they don't want a guy like you at the at the conference is because of that. Like their uh their idea of a a man, because I saw Melody Lyons say it the other day. She's like, she's she she took a picture of your tweet where you just all you said was like uh patriarchy will prevail, and she's like, Why can't these men be like Scott Hahn or my husband? And it's well, Scott Hahn's 70 years old. Like he's 70 years old. What do you mean? It's like we're we're talking about young, virile men who have who have the crusader mindset, like we are born for battle, and we're gonna handle things a little differently than Scott Hahn. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, that might be one model of holiness that he's found, but for me, it looks very different. Like holiness for me looks very different from what Matt Pratt looks like, and I'm not saying they're not holy, I'm just it just looks very different for a guy with my temperament. I'm a big, loud, boisterous Italian guy. It's like I have to find different ways to to to to seek holiness, and it's and all this other content, dude, it's so female coded, it's female coded, it's John Deloney Catholicism. That's literally what it is. It's John Deloney Catholicism. When you're watching all these other guys, they're John Deloney Catholicism, bro.

Becoming Fathers With A Marian Heart

SPEAKER_03 59:59

That's like yeah, no, so somebody left a comment under an interview I did with Dr. Dan Schneider. Like, this is tomahawk steak Catholicism. Yeah, it's fire-breathing Catholicism. It's like, dude, all you have to do is read about uh the crusade, the crusaders. I mean, these guys, these kings who left everything behind for Christ because they wanted to see the holy land, they wanted to protect the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and these men that left behind riches and family wore hair shirts, were fasting and self-flagellating on the battlefield, knowing they were gonna die, but they knew the flesh will die, but they cannot kill my soul. That's the energy I'm talking about. Let's all talk about sola scriptura and how many times we can debunk the Protestants or the Islamists. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:46

Like part of the thing with Kyle, I saw it, I was just like, dude, what if we come to a time where persecution comes? What if you come to a time where martyrdom comes? Like you think you're going to die instead of stepping on a picture of Christ or or an image of Christ, like the the martyrs literally would have died before stepping on an image of our Lord. You wouldn't say no to some like you wouldn't say no to some broad.

unknown 1:01:12

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:13

Like, how are you ever going to endure martyrdom? And how are you preparing anybody for martyrdom? Because when you read the stories of the saints, we should all like rejoice at the idea of martyrdom.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:25

And it's a grace that God gives you.

unknown 1:01:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:27

But if you're not developing the requisite virtue to even receive or co not receive, cooperate with that grace, you don't even know how to do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:36

Oh, yeah, dude. You know what I have for dinner? Butternut squash soup. I had gnocchi.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:42

I had gnocchi guys with cheese. There's no fit, no fish going full vegetarian on Fridays. It sucks, man, when you're trying to get that protein intake. I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:50

I've been doing one meal a day, man. It's not easy. Yeah, you guys are going hard in the paint, man. I I do I do the one meal a day, and honestly, I feel better. It's it's such a you know, it's like I almost feel like I should, I like I should just do it all year because it's the it's the best way I function, actually. I got I'll I'll get like a bag of like uh trail mix throughout the day. Like I'll just have a bag of trail mix and then I'll just have one meal when I get home. And I feel so much better. I don't I don't know. I don't know why I ever go off this when Lent's over.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:21

Yeah, the mental acuity that comes with fasting is is unparalleled. Almost like we're not meant to be bogged down with gluttony. That's another advice that nobody wants to talk about gluttony.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

But gluttony isn't just eating, right? I watched your video actually, and I loved it, man. Uh, me and me and Nicole both watched it. And because I, especially during the holidays, I get very gluttonous with a lot of things. It's not just the eating, the eating is definitely one of them, but it's just like we're constantly at parties and seeing family, and I'm drinking too much, and I'm overindulging in the sweets, and I'm overindulging in just it's just overindulgence in every area from Christmas right through New Year's. That really Thanksgiving, and I don't, I'm never good at fasting during Advent. I know I'm supposed to. It's just gluttony from Thanksgiving right through to New Year's. And by the time Lent comes around, I'm just like, thank God Lent is here because like I don't drink during Lent, I don't I eat once a day during Lent, and I feel so much better when I do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:22

I don't know why I don't your actual appetite really helps, you know, it really does dictate your spiritual life. Anytime I go on vacation, I'm visiting family back home, and we're eating all this Italian food, you'll you don't want to pray. You feel this like grayness kind of come on, and the sloth really kicks in. If you're disciplined, you kind of fight through it, but nothing makes me want to pray more than just depriving myself of that necessity of food. Yeah, that's that's that's the whole thing, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

Yeah, the belly is the root of everything, man. If you're struggling with any particular vice, fast. Fasting is actually the root to conquering lust, the root to conquering anger, the root to conquering everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:57

Well, C.S. Lewis said he had a great quote that the head must rule the belly through the chest. And that's it's it's absolutely it's so it's so good. It's so good. It's really subordinating the appetites, right? I mean, we've that's totally been lost, lost on us completely. We're all just a bunch of, you know, even Father Rehill texted me the other day. He's like, it's not just Catholics that struggle with this. He goes, I'm at JFK Airport and everybody's just stuffing themselves. Like, what's wrong with people?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:21

It's just it's our culture, man. We're all so overweight and obese, and we're just such a mess. I'm telling you, the Lent is the greatest gift God gave to like the liturgical calendar is one of the greatest gifts that the church has brought to the world. It just is so to like have that season of penance for that period. It's almost like the church just knows that you need that time of reflection and penance and fasting. It's such a the genius of of the church and and the way it developed is just it's amazing. Well, it's my favorite, it's my favorite liturgical season by far.

Sanctity Now: Prayer, Penance, And Change

SPEAKER_03 1:04:57

That you know, Raymond Ibrahim, the guy that wrote all those books about the crusades, he's an Orthodox, but he makes a great point. Most Christians have become materialists. Everything's about the material, everything's about the flesh, or it's about actual, just like the giving of money. It's not about anything eternal, it's all about the temporal. So there's this total forgetfulness about the interior life, about fasting, about the actual, you know, this is what the crusader guys all got right, is that they knew they could kill my flesh, but they cannot kill my soul. Therefore, I need to subdue my flesh to my soul, or it's just become so materialistic. And in that materialistic sort of worldview that we've sort of uh adopted, we've lost our edge completely.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

Yeah, dude, I mean, you look in the ancient world and they actually scourged their flesh, and we look on that now like it's archaic, but the purpose was to subdue it. And they they they would scourge their flesh because it would help them with all their other all their other vices. Um Margo says my goal is to sleep on the concrete and eat bread only. No bread, no carbs, uh, Margo. No food. Yeah. Celery. You could have celery. That's it. Sleep on the concrete and just celery. Um, all right. I think we're gonna wrap this one up because I don't want to stay too long. I don't want to do a two-hour show. Mike and I are gonna start discussing planning for this conference. We're gonna look to put it somewhere in the middle of the country, uh, north north midwest area, so that anybody from Canada wants to come, they'll be able to come. And anywhere you are in the country, we'll pick we'll pick somewhere with an international airport and we'll pick a hotel right next to it so you don't have to rent cars. We're gonna try and make it as inexpensive as possible. I know like Michael Matt's conference is something like 400 bucks. We're not gonna be anywhere near that. We're gonna try and keep it affordable for everybody, and we we want to make it special. Like I want it to be very different from every other conference everybody's ever been to. So we got a lot of planning ahead of us, and um, we're gonna try and do it soon. We're gonna see if we can get it done this summer. So I hope you guys, yeah. I I think I think Chicago's a good spot too. Um, what is this? Psycho Nurse on the phone at the VA the other day swatted me. I am trying to get over it, but it really is bothering me. Oh, yeah. All right. Yeah, somebody's at Chicago. Chicago is probably a really good spot because it's kind of like central to everything. So that's a that's a that's a good that's a good spot. So all right, so Mike and I are gonna go plan some stuff. Mike, what do you got coming up on your channel? Anything good, dude.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:18

It's just it's just the kin, you know, more more of the same. I just want to rally the troops. I get these messages. I got one, dude, right before I came down. This guy was like, You're the reason I started praying the rosary daily and over, and I you've made me feel like, and I'm not trying to be self-aggrandizing, I just want to share something beautiful that the Christianity has a place for me. That's what this is about. Yeah, so if you guys want to hear more of that stuff, I don't get the craziest amount of views because I kind of stick to my lane, but yeah, go subscribe, check out what I got going on.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:46

Like, I like just keep doing that because I there I used to care what the views on this channel were, and I I just got some point like I just don't care. I just don't care. If you guys like it, you like it. If you don't, you don't. I actually don't want to go viral. I don't I have no desire to have like a clip go viral or anything. It's like I actually really love the size of our channel. I love that our audience really enjoys what we do, and I'd rather keep it this size so that I don't have the dude. You watch like when all these news outlets are writing stories about trads and the pay like like Gordon's always getting mentioned, Taylor Marshall's always getting they never mention me, none of them ever. I fly under the radar for everything, and I love it. The only one that mentions me is Christine Harrington. You know what? We should play the one, Christine. Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:33

Hold on, let me see. You have to. Yeah, I got before we go, definitely just unhinged men.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:39

Oh, this woman is amazing. She's my new favorite podcaster, I have to say. She's incredible. She saw the blessed virgin marry twice.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:46

She's a I call her, I call her the clairvoyant real estate agent, formerly a church of Milleton. She's the she's such a koop that lady. Holy cow. All right, let me see what we got.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:59

I got the I sent the videos uh to you, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:02

In uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In our uh in DMs on on X, yeah. All right, hang on. I gotta add. I'm so bad at this. Rob's so much better at this, dude. StreamYard is so easy, bro. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:17

No, it is, it is, but like on my computer, if I I don't have the other uh screen open, which would make this much easier. Um, I'll go on Latin slow I'll go on Latin Slavs for a little bit. I would say you should have us both on together, it'd be a blast. Do it. Oh, they're not loading. Are you kidding me? This stupid the stupid uh um uh desktop version of uh of DMs on uh Twitter is horrible.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:50

Wasn't it bizarre? She was like, Me Anthony and Matt Frad and Michael have this ecosystem where the they share these ideas and they have these common ideas.

Fasting, Gluttony, And Interior Life

SPEAKER_01 1:09:58

I can play the audio from my phone, they're so funny, man. Like uh wait, that's what I'll do. I'll just play the audio from my phone. This point, yeah. Her her facial expressions are hilarious. You really do need them. Why are they not loading? They're just not loading, it's really annoying.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:17

Yeah, that's you're showing your boom, your your boomer side, brother, right now. That's what you're showing.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:20

No, it's I'm telling it's X chats. Like, I I I would normally share from X chats, and they're they're loading on my phone, but not like not on the desktop. The desktop uh DMs are so bad, but uh this one drove her nuts.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:36

Um can I play devil's advocate for a minute? Yeah, go right again because um Anthony from Avoiding Babylon posted a video. And I actually agreed with a lot of what he said. I mean Pantilli and Pantille did that video in October 2024. So I think it's kind of disingenuous for a sponsor to then be offended that he's at this conference. I think if you want to pull your money, you have every right to pull your money and voice your opinion. I don't know that he should have been canceled from it. Let him talk.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:16

If you're really gonna, you know, shout out to Nicole, Christine Harrington's producer.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:22

Yeah, that was her producer, guys, not Christine Harrington herself.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:25

That was that was that was her producer, and um I just uh I think I that was kind of my point. Kyle did just text me, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:34

Oh, did he? Kyle just texted me.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:37

Kyle, you want to come on?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:42

I'd be dumb for that. Why not? I would too if he wants to come on. Wait, this one's big, this one's great. Okay, ready?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:49

That was all over social media today. Pentile, Fred, and avoiding Babylon are not isolated voices, and we're gonna get into all of this. They are part of the connected media ecosystem where these views are normalized and amplified. Avoiding Babylon hosted by both Tim Gordon and Mike Pentile together for an episode called What a Wannaness, which is oh yeah in Tim Gordon's 2019 book.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:22

It's rooted in the documentary. They were both in the documentary, and I love my friends, and I'm gonna help them promote their documentary.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:28

Long live the patriarchy boys. Yes. The era of the patriarchy has has returned. There's nothing they can do to stop it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:36

Um yeah, that that voice is a bit much, man. Oh my gosh. I don't know how anybody watches her, but yeah, that episode in particular was one of the most entertaining episodes I've ever seen in my life.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:47

Yeah, Keith sent it to me. I'm like, dude, I lasted like two seconds. He's like, that's it. I watched the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:52

I started off, it was very grating, and then I was just like, This is the this is amazing. Like she is off her rocker, that woman. She's amazing. So um all right, we're gonna wrap this one up, guys. Um, if Kyle, if you are listening, uh, I will I will definitely give you a call. I'm gonna I'm gonna call Kyle tomorrow when I'm a little better rested because I had a rough night's sleep last night and uh Josh kept me on here until 11 11 p.m. and I woke up at four. So I'll give I'll give Kyle a a ring tomorrow when I'm a little more refreshed and everything's a little settled. So all right, uh go go subscribe to Mike's YouTube channel. Uh it's just Mike Pantile, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:30

Correct, Mike Pantile everywhere you can find me. Yeah, and you're big on Instagram too, right? I got like almost 80,000 there. Wow, yeah, it's yeah, it's it's weird, it's very weird. But the wit women, the women on that on that platform, dude. The I when all this stuff popped off, I got more messages from women than I did men. They go hard. There's some there's some good women out there.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:51

Oh, we do have super chats. I don't want to blow up the super chats. Um, more people know about this conference as the as the one that canceled Mike than ever would have known about it otherwise. It's true. Uh, woman question is so important. When St. John Paul II said that Satan's last bro, last battle will be against marriage in the family. He wasn't referring to gay marriage, he was referring to divorce, submission, patriarchy, relations between husbands and boys. Like, right, he and he was referring to Catholic marriages, right? So it's not like everybody everybody does think like that. They're like, oh, marriage in the family, look what they're doing to marriage. No, like Satan is trying to rip apart Catholic marriages, and I I experienced that in my own marriage when me and my wife went through that difficult period, and it was through the things me and Mike talked about tonight that saved not just my marriage, but like my family. Uh, I once got canceled by friends for posting an Elliot Hulse video in a group chat. It was about how to be a chaste man, but good riddance, honestly. Long live the patriarchy. Elliot Hulse is a is a G. I love that guy. Shout out to Elliot. Um, pray to Blessed Charles the good crusader, revive his cultist, miracles waiting to happen. And then uh just uh Tony thing, thank you for the stream. All right, yeah, guys, we appreciate everybody. Thank you guys all so much for uh for tuning in. Uh, yes, Kyle, absolutely. I'm I consider you my friend still, so I will absolutely call you. Uh Katie Prajan McGrady, if you're still watching, I I wish you nothing but the best. I genuinely don't want anybody to uh come after you. Christine Harrington, I want to pick fights with you because I want you to do another stream about me because you are funny. And tell your producer Nicole she's awesome. All right, guys, we'll see you. Uh we'll see you guys next time.

Wrapping Up And Conference Next Steps

SPEAKER_03 1:15:34

God bless you guys, you can't do it.