Stay and Save Your Parish or Cut Your Losses?

We discuss two recent articles: one arguing that you should stay at a bad Catholic parish and fight for it, and the other arguing against that.  What will Anthony and Rob decide? Will they agree? Or not?

Chapters

• 0:00 Guest Intros And Boundaries
• 3:10 Weather, Schedules, And Upcoming Interviews
• 9:30 Sponsors, Ads, And Audience Expectations
• 16:30 The “Church Hopping” Debate Ignites
• 24:00 Can You Fix A Broken Parish?
• 31:00 Demographics, Social Change, And Parish Decline
• 38:40 Vocations, Seminaries, And Trust
• 47:00 The Lonely Priest And Real Support

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:51

If you want to watch the anti-Semitic intro, you're gonna have to pay up and join locals.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05

Dude, what's crazy is the guy at the end looks like my Uncle Anthony, like a lot. He looks like really like my Uncle Anthony. Um, okay, so there have I have to explain a little bit. Like, okay, so here's the thing like I don't care what the intro is if it's just me and Rob, right? Like, I don't care, but when you have a guest on who's like a professor at a university, I was just like, dude, I don't know if that's a good idea. And so if Fred hadn't already canceled them, he would have canceled him for that. Well, Daniel had messaged me and he went, Hey, I have some interviews coming up, and they're going to basically like like look over my social media history. So I just want to give you a heads up. I'm not going to put your show in the bio because I don't want anybody coming across that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:57

No, he he he said, Um, I I uh I'm gonna delete the tweet I was tagged in. That's what he said.

SPEAKER_01: 2:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just went, Oh my gosh, that's so bad. Like, I because I wasn't even thinking about who he's going to have on, I was more thinking, like, what if one of his students saw it and like decided to give make a problem for him? I think it's safe to say that an intro is never a good idea.

SPEAKER_00: 2:21

So yeah, so we have decided that yes, so this is kind of like this guy.

SPEAKER_01: 2:26

We have to have a talk with Taffy. Like, all right, so we're gonna have to have like if we have a guest on, there's two things we have to do. We could eat like when we had Taylor on, we actually ran Taffy's intro by Taylor before he came on. He he loved that, and Taylor was like, Oh, this is awesome, play it, you know. Um, so if Taffy has something that he thinks would be good for the guest, I just gotta run it by them beforehand and make sure they're okay with it. Because I mean, I don't I look, I don't care, I can't get canceled from anything, but Robin Blackface might not be the greatest thing for his Baptist bosses either, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 2:59

Like, like that's probably probably a little bit, and I mentioned it that night. I I did not watch the whole thing prior to airing it. That's that's my bad.

SPEAKER_01: 3:11

So so that's kind of where we're at. It's like, all right, if we have a guest, we're going to either run the intro by them and make sure they're cool with it first, or we'll just do like a generic intro and there's a guest. There's a there's a bunch of um things coming up, also. So I'm basically gonna be laid off all week next week. Uh we're getting, I think most most of America is getting clobbered with this storm, right?

SPEAKER_00: 3:33

Like, I mean, it's pretty much the whole we're not gonna get any storm, it's just gonna be uh like negative 40 real temp when I wake up tomorrow and negative 60 wind chill.

SPEAKER_01: 3:45

So, like the whole eastern seaboard is getting either a foot of snow or ice or something. It's the Hindi Zionism that'll get rock fired. He's not wrong. So Bobby's getting like 20 inches, I'm getting like 10 to 16 inches. Um, it's going to be it's going to be brutal. So, and then it's gonna drop down into like 18 degrees or 16 degrees. That snow's not going anywhere. So, I'm gonna be off all week next week. You're about 16 degrees. Are you joking me? I'm not complaining about it, it's just we're gonna get shut down at work. So I I reached out to Joel Webbin. Um and I wanted to get him on Twitter. Talk about someone fine with the blackface. We're gonna I hope I hope Taffy makes an intro for Joel Webbin. We'll see, we'll see if he comes up with something good. Um, I'll send it to Joel ahead of time. But um, I actually I reached out to Joel a couple months back and he didn't respond to me. So I shot him a message uh last night and I said, Hey, I know you blew me off on the last message I sent you, but I know you just lost Patreon and you got a new book. I said, if you want to plug your book and plug your new platform, I said, you know, we'd love to have you. And uh he messaged me back like right away and he was like, Yeah, definitely, I would love to. So I don't I don't know what he's come across of ours. I don't know if um I have no idea what he's seen of ours. I don't know what he knows, but uh he sent me his phone number and I had like a quick like five, 10 minute conversation with him today. And uh he said, uh he said, Look, I I'd prefer it if we didn't do it in the evening because he kind of does his thing during the day and then he wants to spend time. He's got five kids, he wants to be home with his family. So I said, I'll be off next week if you want to do Tuesday. I can do Tuesday. So we're gonna do Tuesday at 12 p.m. Eastern. Uh Rob obviously has work, so he's not going to be able to join, but hopefully that interview is good enough to give us content for the night show and we could jump on and do like a show. We should do it a night show. I think we should. I mean, let's I mean, I'm gonna be off. So it's like I and you're you know, so I figured I'll do the day show Tuesday and then we'll do the night show. Maybe we'll do a debrief of the Joel Webin cut because I have a lot of things I want to ask Joel. Like I want I want to ask him like how because I've watched his I've watched him like change his opinion over the past year and a half specifically, and just watching his content change, and I'd like to get into a lot of that stuff. Um, and we're probably going to discuss like the three contention, which is um, oh thank you, appreciate you. Um we're probably gonna discuss race, feminism, and Jews, you know, and like it's hard to get along. I don't I'm not into like Protestant Catholic dialogue typically, but I think Joel's really good on those three issues. Like he's basically a Christian patriarchy guy on feminism. He's uh got some interesting takes on race. Uh, he's a Christian nationalist guy and he wants to preserve a white country, and and he's coming around on the Jewish question a lot. And I'd like to see how far I can push him on Catholic theology with the Jewish question. So I think it'll be a really interesting conversation. Um, so we're gonna do that Tuesday, and then Rob and I'll jump on Tuesday night. Then Wednesday, I think I'm on with TLM Ryan, and then I'm probably going to stream like every day next week because I'm off.

SPEAKER_00: 6:58

So you guys are gonna have a lot, you guys are gonna have a lot of ant doesn't realize that does not cause just more work for Ant.

SPEAKER_01: 7:05

No, it doesn't. It's definitely making Rob do more. But I'd rather I'd rather be streaming than doing nothing. Like, I don't, I don't know. I'm afraid to just be home doing nothing. So tonight we're going to do like uh we're gonna discuss the the topic in the thumbnail. We're probably just gonna make fun of uh Novus Ordo Normy Patrick a little bit.

SPEAKER_00: 7:26

Life team Patrick.

SPEAKER_01: 7:28

Life Team Patrick. We're gonna make fun of him a little bit, and then uh I want I still never told anybody about my weekend in Tampa. Like I have Father Altman story to that. I I met John Yep from Catholics for Catholics.

SPEAKER_00: 7:42

Um I we have to discuss Michael Matt purposefully trying to burn the remnants.

SPEAKER_01: 7:46

We definitely have to discuss Michael Michael Matt basically became Tim Waltz. I mean basically, yeah. Michael Matt became Tim Waltz. Like he's he's his the things he's saying sound no different. They're indistinguishable, like indistinguishable from from from uh Ozzy Osborne's daughter on the view. She's like, We can't get rid of the immigrants, they clean our toilets. Like that's literally the tweet he wrote earlier. Who's gonna mow my lawn out of the suburbs when I don't actually live in Minneapolis? He's gotta who's gonna cut my grass if we just send all the immigrants. So we have to talk about Michael Matt. Like, I think we just have way more locals content tonight, stuff that I don't want to just blast out on YouTube. And so we'll we're we'll get to the subject at hand in a minute. But first, we actually have a commercial to play for you guys.

SPEAKER_00: 8:33

And it is one you've actually seen, but we're actually being paid to play it this way.

SPEAKER_01: 8:37

All right, so this is the other thing. We're gonna have to talk about the sponsor stuff because uh you guys are all right, we're gonna bring you guys behind the scenes a little bit, but go ahead, play the commercial and then we'll talk about it real quick. You guys don't want to know what I did to that cow. All right, so still the best part. All right, so here's the thing we have a lot, we have we now have like we went from having no sponsors to this show to several people want to sponsor.

SPEAKER_00: 9:30

Why are you turning that off?

SPEAKER_01: 9:32

Oh no, it didn't by itself.

SPEAKER_00: 9:33

It wasn't your fault. I'm bad. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01: 9:36

So we went from having no sponsors to having uh several people want to sponsor the show now. We don't want to we don't want to do three, four ads in a show, so we have to we have to shuffle some of these around. So we're thinking we weren't supposed to notice that. Yeah, I said that I said I'm I'm grateful taffy always makes me look a little thinner. That's pretty nice. Um we're going to probably uh do recusin until Valentine's Day. And I'm assuming people don't drink wine during Lent because you should be giving up alcohol for Lent. Come on, guys. So we'll maybe maybe take a break from Recucent. Those of you that have problems with it, anyways. So uh yeah, we're gonna see if we'll talk to Recucent. We'll see if we can drop Recucent for a period. Um, Fat Thins is only doing like a three-show run. Uh we want to keep knickknacks, and uh, what's the other one we have now?

SPEAKER_00: 10:29

Well, there's a uh a special Lenten one but probably coming.

SPEAKER_01: 10:33

So, yeah, there's a Lenten specific one that's coming also. So we'll try not to like bury you guys. I mean, this is part of the show tonight, and you guys we know we're gonna do it, but we'll try to keep the ads a little shorter. So, all right, so fat fins is uh of uh Catholic family that is now making chips. We mentioned their chips on our show one time and they sold out.

SPEAKER_00: 10:53

They yeah, that they sold they they just launched recently, they sold out their first batch, and they just received they not received, they just finished their second batch. So uh go over to fatthins.com and AB10 for the code. We'll give you 10% off your first order.

SPEAKER_01: 11:10

And they are actually amazing chips. They are amazing chips, they are made with um uh uh beef tallow, potatoes, beef tallow, and sea salt. Literally, those three ingredients. So, and they're amazing. So go check them out. Let's see if we can clean out this order for them so that they they are happy that they they sponsored us. Then we are still doing recusincent right now. So recusyncsellers.com use code based at checkout for 10% off. Uh RecuSync Sellers, our our original sponsor. We always love RecuSynth. Valentine's Day is coming up, and it does take a little over a week to get your your wine delivered. I'm telling you guys, get an order in now. Have a nice couple bottles of wine to surprise your wife with, your mother. They're a really good uh gift for Valentine's Day. Great way to support the show. Use code based at checkout for 10% off. See what else they got on their site. They also ship fruit, and yes, the the grift did evolve quickly. We apologize. And then the last one is knickknack.

SPEAKER_00: 12:15

The thing is, like, um I've talked to to all these guys, and these aren't like just their marketing team. Like, I've talked to all of their owners, and all their owners are just Catholic guys, honestly, all similar in age to me and aunt, just running a family business. Like, so when they when they you know ask us to help them out, and of course, in exchange for money, they are paying us, but it's hard to say no to a Catholic family who just wants to help their business, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 12:42

And they and they like the show and the and like our there is I'm I'm not kidding. Have you seen any other Catholic shows having unique sponsorships like this? Like, every other show does the same thing, like they all get real estate for life. It's uh what other what other ones do they do?

SPEAKER_00: 12:58

Well, you want to know some someone just commented on our last show where you said that said, Hey, uh um real or I work with real estate for life. I mentioned it to our uh I mentioned it to our manager since you've talked about us three times now. So um we might have real estate for life as a sponsor.

SPEAKER_01: 13:15

I mean, they may as well give us an affiliate code, right? If somebody uses real estate for life, because we should get we should get a cut, but I mean, everybody knows real estate for life, right? So, but it is funny just because of how the show has progressed. Like our our first actual sponsor was a guy who was doing uh wills, it was like Catholic Wills.

SPEAKER_00: 13:35

MyCatholicwill.com.

SPEAKER_01: 13:36

Yeah, myCatholicwill.com. He was the first sponsor, but like our audience is so young, it's like nobody's thinking about Wills yet, so it just wasn't a good fit. So we were kind of just like, look, I you know, it it kind of got a little too burdening. But it just got too too like cumbersome to do yeah, Chad Lc magazine. It got like too cumbersome to like throw the ad into the show, and it was a little clunky and stuff. So we like we do actually really like the guy who does my catholic wills. Yeah, if you guys need a will, definitely go over there. Like, we do really like the guy, it just it was just not a good fit for our show because our audience is young and stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 14:14

Well, we probably have to explain wills to boomers since they will never use them to give money to their kids. They're just they're gonna spend all that money before they die. So, Michael Matt, here's what a will is, buddy.

SPEAKER_01: 14:25

Uh, and then Knickknack. Uh, Knickknac's our newest sponsor, and they are the highest paying sponsor, so we should make them the best.

SPEAKER_00: 14:33

Yeah, there's some behind-the-scenes stuff you don't say.

SPEAKER_01: 14:40

Nick knack.com shop, use code AB25 for 25% off. We actually love Nick Knacks, they are very, very helpful for me right now. I'm not out to say why, because we're definitely not allowed to say they're a smoking cessation device, not allowed to say that.

SPEAKER_00: 14:56

And we are required to say that this product contains nicotine. And nicotine is an addictive and yet wonderful chemical.

SPEAKER_01: 15:02

Addictive, wonderful, amazing. Uh, and we would love to like put Alps and freaking zin out of business. Like for a Catholic company to get into the nicotine game, that's awesome. So go support nicknack.com, check them out. They're lozenges, guys. They're not pouches. So you don't leave pouches all over your house. Like you, they're just lozenges, you put them in your lip and they dissolve. They have a ton of different flavors.

SPEAKER_00: 15:26

Like, if you're outside and you want to be done, you you can just put it outside, it's gonna dissolve.

SPEAKER_01: 15:29

It's not uh yeah, it's not it's not littering, but I'm I'm on blood orange right now, it's really good. Yeah, yeah. Blood orange is really good. So nicknack.com use code AB25 for 20 years.

SPEAKER_00: 15:43

Have you found you don't need a strong of strong of a dose with them?

SPEAKER_01: 15:46

I still use it, yeah. You can break one in half. You definitely don't need it, but I'll I still do the whole what am I what am I a lightweight? Um, all right, so let's get to the show. So that was 15 minutes of ads.

SPEAKER_00: 15:58

We're definitely not gonna get any complaints about that from either our sponsors or our listeners.

SPEAKER_01: 16:07

Every time we do a show, the comments are like 10 minutes in and still no content.

SPEAKER_00: 16:13

Blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_01: 16:14

And someone goes, You're such a lifesaver. 10 minutes in and still no content. It's like, I don't know what you guys are looking for from us. Like, if you want content, we're not the show. This is just not the show for you, if that's what you're looking for. We don't get to the title ever, usually. So we're 15-16 minutes in. I think we should try to get to the title. Um, all right, so Patrick Neve or Nev Neve Nev. Um I like Patrick. I like Patrick. I think he's very good at Twitter, like very good at Twitter. Um that's because he's gamified it. He he's pretty good at Twitter. I mean, he he's he knows he he does a lot of threads sometimes and stuff. He's just super normy, you know what I mean? Like he's uh thank you, Molly. He's um like what was what did uh what did La Layla Miller say? Waller.

SPEAKER_00: 17:06

Waller is that Layla Lawler?

SPEAKER_01: 17:09

Is that her name?

SPEAKER_00: 17:10

What's her name? Yeah, you're I think you're right. I just can't remember if that's a different person on Layla Miller. Layla Lawler? I think it's I would actually see her. I'll be honest. I was gonna come off wrong. A lot of the women on Twitter all seemed like exactly the same to me. It's Layla Marie Lawler.

SPEAKER_01: 17:29

So Layla said, um, I like Layla too. She's a nice lady. Um, I'm not gonna say anything negative about her. Uh, she follows me on Twitter. So uh let's see. I want to find her tweet.

SPEAKER_00: 17:42

That's all it takes, by the way, guys. Yeah, follow him on Twitter.

SPEAKER_01: 17:45

Follow me on Twitter, and uh, you know, I'm not gonna say anything. Um, where's her actual tweet though? She said something about him. Uh I can't find it. This is this is I'm this is terrible.

SPEAKER_00: 18:01

And pop in a knickknack and zone in.

SPEAKER_01: 18:04

I'm trying, guys. All right, whatever. All right, I can't find it. Anyway, she uh she said that um, so he's basically like a life team minister, Patrick.

SPEAKER_00: 18:13

He's a youth minister somehow associated in some way with life team.

SPEAKER_01: 18:18

So it's uh like he's super normy, and so this is the tweet he wrote.

SPEAKER_00: 18:21

Okay, life teen is way more than just normie, like it's like charismatic. Who of the three founders of life team have been charged with child sex crimes? So, in a way where like you really question the prudence of those who stayed with the legionnaires. I tend to really question like the judgment and prudence of those who are associated with life teen at this point in time.

SPEAKER_01: 18:45

Man, I didn't know that. So, all right, so Patrick writes every Catholic knows someone who drives 30 minutes to mass, passing three parishes along the way. Maybe you're that person, but church hopping is killing our parishes. I get the appeal, the music, homilies, or community are better somewhere else. But when faithful Catholics scatter across a diocese chasing the perfect parish, nobody builds anything, it causes a dilution of resources. People aren't working together because they don't see each other. The parish you hate might just be the parish that needs you. So now my response to this was um Patrick's kind of genius because he wrote a book on this. He wrote a book on this, and I said he's kind of genius at Twitter because he he wrote a tweet that will generate more revenue than the book itself because nobody's a truth. Who's buying this book?

SPEAKER_00: 19:35

Maybe unless that's the thing, that's the thing about like the institutional church and Catholic Inc.

SPEAKER_01: 19:40

Like it's all probably sustaining, right? They'll sell this in your in like the north x of your parish or something for two or three bucks, or it'll be on the free rack, right?

SPEAKER_00: 19:51

So you're actually you are buying this book, whether you realize it or not. Your your tithes will go to your parish and your diocese to buy this book. From you know these organizations, from these authors who write, just vacus bullshit.

SPEAKER_01: 20:07

There has been some crazy anger from this tweet, though. Like, even when Brian holds with chirps in and like in like a hostile way, you know, you know you said something crazy. Yeah, like it wasn't it wasn't cheerful Brian either. That was in the Brian's like, I would rather let those parishes die than the faith of my children die. Like, that's really how a lot of us feel, right? It's like you want me to go in and try and save this terrible parish. Well, it's not even possible, man. You're you're just like the idea of swimming upstream like that, like you're going, you're going into a a situation that will take years and tons of people helping you to do it. You and and a ton of pressure on the priest. Like these things are these all for the next priest to undo it all in one week. In one week, these these motions have been set since the council, like you're not undoing and for what you'll spend years there to get what them to say the curier while your child goes and transitions because he the he or she didn't learn a damn thing at church. Like you'll spend years and years, and then maybe you'll get some incense. Like, you're not, it's not like you're going and revamping the liturgy at this place, like there's nothing you're going to do, so I don't understand. Like, you might get like a youth program there, but like what what young people are going to places like this? It's total pride to think you're the guy who fixes your powers. That's a that's a very good point. It is like the this this is. I mean, I I said this to um emj when he came on, like it was emj's issue with the with the TLM is that it's bifurcating the church. And I'm like, Mike, I actually got my best Novus Ordo talking point from you, which is that the Novus Ordo itself inherently like has so much variety in it that you're already not going to your geographical parish no matter what, you're already church hopping. So it's like if I'm church hopping already and I'm driving 15 minutes to a reverent novus order, that's not even really reverent, I may as well go the extra 25, 30 minutes and go to a Latin mass, which I know I don't have to fight with anybody to get reverence, it's just inherent in the liturgy. And then all of a sudden you meet a bunch of people who take their faith seriously, and you get this concentrated group who cares a lot about their faith, and you could go let your children play with their children because you know they're not going to be little heathens that are just there because it's you know uh culturally Catholicism. The the issue that does come into play is that because everybody's driving 45 minutes to an hour, it's hard to it's hard to make it because it is just a Sunday thing generally, unfortunately. Yes, so it's not your neighbor that you're hanging out with there. So, like there really was a beauty to the Catholic parish system before the council, where the parish was the community center for Catholics, and it goes into all the social engineering that happened with them bringing so like Tucker Carlson just did that show today or yesterday, talking about how New York in 1950 was 90 white, now it's 30 white. Chicago was 85 white, now it's 17 white. LA was 94 white, now it's 37 white. This this influx of immigrants into these cities was social engineering to break up Catholic communities and send them out to the suburbs, and then they just completely disjointed all these Catholic communities.

SPEAKER_00: 23:42

Yeah, I mean it um you literally have the great migration of blacks from the south to to the urban and and the urban north and the urban you know west. And um, yeah, you know, all for instance, uh north Minneapolis, um where close by where like where the FSSP parish is in Minneapolis, within a mile, right? Uh in any direction, you have, like you said, a German parish, you know, in a in a a Polish parish, uh Slovenian parish, an Italian parish or two, um, and now they're all closed, and instead you have North Minneapolis with the worst gun, the worst gun crime in the you know entire state.

SPEAKER_01: 24:25

So yes, that was like real social engineering. It was like what they did by moving immigrants in. So somebody's saying, like, um, where are they?

SPEAKER_00: 24:36

I do not know what that denomination is, but thank you. Um, I'm a 2011-year-old like the Argentinian donation we had the one time that ended up being.

SPEAKER_01: 24:46

Yeah, that could be like 14 cents. Yeah, that could be 50 cents or something. So I'm uh I'm a 21-year-old Catholic man in a parish that hates me for being properly Catholic. My priest accused me of idolatry for wanting Latin. I refuse to raise my kids in the sounds. Like that's kind of how all of us South African.

SPEAKER_00: 25:02

If you're from South Africa, respect that's not a nice place to live most of the time.

SPEAKER_01: 25:07

So so um, my wife, a couple uh, I forgot when it was. Where was I? I wasn't with her. Oh, it was probably this past Sunday when I was down in Florida. This past Sunday I was down in Florida. My wife took the kids to the Nova Sorto by me. And she goes and she's like, Anthony, she's like, the the priest is such a nice priest. Like, he really is a good priest. This is this parish has some of the most orthodox homilies you'll ever hear, but some of the worst liturgy you'll ever attend. Yeah, so it's like a super conservative litur, uh like, you know, uh in in your in your actual homilies, and they'll talk about abortion. I've even heard homilies on birth control, I've heard homilies on pornography, like really based homilies, but the liturgy is atrocious. I'm talking altar girls and horrific music. They sing the Our Father in a way that will make you your ears bleed. So the priest gave a homily about vocations, and he was like almost in tears because there's only five American priests in seminary in our diocese this year. And we have like 13. We have like the third or fourth largest diocese in the country. Rockville Center. Look that up, Rockville Center. It's like it is a huge diocese, Rockville Center. It's no joke. I mean, it's in New York, it's like one of like the it's in the top five, I'm pretty sure. Let me look. So there's only five American priests, uh, American men joining seminary, or like are are going to be ordained, or something like that. And the priest was almost in tears, and he was just like, you know, Catholic families are raising their children Catholic, but none none of none of the parents are are trying to inspire their children towards a vocation, maybe the sixth, something like that, right?

SPEAKER_00: 26:56

Um, it's pulling up now. So you have 1.5 million Catholics in your baptized Catholics in your diocese. Yeah. Um big diocese. And you have five seminarians, five seminarians at a one. In my diocese, we have 50,000 Catholics and 11 seminarians.

SPEAKER_01: 27:18

There you go. Wow. Okay, so so I mean, think about that, man. So he was like really upset in this homily, and he's like, Um, hey, can you guys pray for the results uh for the repose of Father Nick Fratus of the Diocese of Erie? He barely turned 47 and died a few days ago. Also, John Allen. John Allen passed. Who was John Allen? John Allen was we remember we did the uh his wife did the interview with Pope Francis, the first interview with Pope Francis. Oh, wait, Francis or Leo? I mean Leo, I'm sorry. Pope Leo, his wife did the first interview with Pope Leo, and we kind of reviewed that that that interview. That was John Allen's wife. So so the priest is like almost in tears because uh Catholic families are not trying to inspire vocations in their children, and he's like, it's kind of like this lost this lost um occupation because people don't think anything of the priesthood, and it's like I was so frustrated listening to this because how many vocations have they destroyed because of girls for boys? Well, because the traditional is custodis, yeah, right? Because because of how they're cracking down on anybody who actually believes the faith, right? So any men that are going to feel a sense of a vocation are going to be more conservative and traditional, and then you're basically telling these guys, hey, we're ripping altar rails out. Like, what man is going to go and enter a seminary under those conditions? And we've talked about this before. If one of my son felt he had a vocation, it's like, I mean, I guess I gotta send him to SSPX seminary. Like, there's no chance I'm putting my son in a diocesan seminary.

SPEAKER_00: 28:59

It will no chance. One could argue that it could potentially be a sin against prudence, to be quite honest.

SPEAKER_01: 29:06

It's the I because I know Wagner disagrees with me on this. He's like, Oh no, no, we got to infiltrate, and like we'll be the ones who are coming up, but I'm not of that mindset, like you're not you're not receiving a real Catholic formation in those seminaries, and they still have their guys at the top. So basically, Leo's in, and I don't care how based your priests are in the seminary, what you actually have happening is Leo's promoting a guy who supports the LGBT and who's like that's who that's who he's promoting. These guys are in power, that's what you're getting raised to the top. So, no matter how based your average priest is, and I know a ton. Not all right. So, look, I had um I had a uh a priest who lives in Westchester call me yesterday, and um I I talked to him a little bit, and he it's because he saw my video about um the bishop Hicks, the New York new new New York Bishop. Yeah, so I put for anybody that doesn't know I put out a video when when Hicks got what replaced Dolan, and it was pretty it was pretty vicious. And I in the video I kind of said, like, you know, I know Dolan was I know you know, I know he wasn't the best, and I could criticize him for a million things, but at least he felt like a like a man's man, and you could go grab a beer with him. This priest was like, I'm not doing Dolan felt gay, to be honest. So this is the the guy says to me, He's like, I'm just telling you, Dolan was part of the gay mafia, dude. He's like, I don't care what you think of Dolan, he was part of the game.

SPEAKER_00: 30:39

Never once got the feeling he was a man's man. Are you?

SPEAKER_01: 30:42

I don't I I always felt he's just an Irishman, a jolly Irishman. I was like, I could probably grab a beer and talk with the guy or something, but he did say he goes, No, and he goes, I'm glad you deleted the video just because Hicks he goes, I I know he may not have the most masculine voice and stuff like that. He goes, but um I know guys that were in his diocese, and I'm telling you, he's not an enemy of that. This is really he's not an enemy by any stretch.

SPEAKER_00: 31:06

You don't like Hicks because he's soft spoken, and you like Dolan because he was loud, maybe.

SPEAKER_01: 31:10

Yeah, I mean, I like a loud Irishman, a loud Italian, you know, that's kind of how it is. But but what I also realized, like this priest um who called me, uh, I'm gonna grab dinner with him uh in the next week or two.

SPEAKER_00: 31:22

Um, and like I I think Anthony admitting he'd get gay cat.

SPEAKER_01: 31:28

Yeah, I probably totally would. I um what what what I what isn't talked about enough is how lonely the life of a conservative priest is. Like uh the the priest that's coming to Italy, I should I really should mention Italy too. We have 10 spots left on the Italy trip. So if anybody is interested in coming, like this trip is going to be amazing. I have an amazing priest coming on this trip with us. Um, we're gonna have daily Latin Mass in some of the most beautiful places. We're going to Rome, going down to Pompeii. We're gonna go to the island of Capri. We're gonna be we're gonna have we're gonna have a Latin Mass in front of a Eucharistic miracle while we're there. We're going to a CC, we're gonna be in Orvieto. There's also a plenary indulgence attached to visiting a CC this year. So you'll get a plenary indulgence with the pilgrimage, daily mass. It's it's pretty amazing. So if you guys are interested, go to anthony at avoidingbabylon.com. Um, you're right. Don't do that. Email Anthony at avoidingbabylon.com. Um, so the but the priest that called me, I'm just like, man, these these good priests, they have nobody, man. Like they don't have anybody. Like if and and people talk to priests like they're like, oh my goodness, like I have to be careful how I and I think just the just the just this priest call calling me. I don't want to say his name because of what I just said that he told me and stuff, but um, he's like, Man, I'd love to just come and hang me and just talk with you, you know. And the same thing with the priests coming on the pilgrimage, like they need just like fraternity with men, like and and normal men, you know what I mean? Like they can't, it's like because so many of the people at their parishes probably like are like especially when you know a priest, right? Like, so all right, I'll give you an example. When I went to the canceled priest conference, I had I had a I had a a thing I I was dealing with that was like really tricky, and Father Dave Nicks was there, and I remember I could have gone to a priest that I didn't know and talked about this and confessed this, and I and I forced myself to go to Father Nick's because it was embarrassing. Something super embarrassing, and I was like, I'm gonna force myself to go to Father Dave Nick's because I I didn't want to hide behind the screen for this one. I wanted to like wanted to I wanted to verbalize what this thing was and I wanted to really wanted to really like like sit in it for a minute, and it was super embarrassing, you know? And but it but it put up this like I felt weird around Father Nick's the rest of that weekend. Even though like you know the priest after he forgives your sins, like he, you know, it's you know, it's he forgets about it. But when when you're in a priest's parish and you're going to con and he's your confessor and stuff, it's like you it's hard to have a a lateral fraternal relationship with him instead of that hey, you're my spiritual father relationship, which is which is appropriate, right? Like he is your spiritual father, but I do think these priests just need to be around normal, normal men and just like hang out, they're super embarrassing. More details on local. It was one of those, um one of the it was something that like came up from my from like dur during the conference in in a in one of the talks, like it was like a was it about how angry you got at Father Altman. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. It was a past sin that came up, and it was very personal. It was, I mean, I'll tell you guys all locals, whatever. No, don't fall into the stereotype. Whatever, I'll tell it all locals. No, I can't it's not something I can ever say on here though, because it has to do with never mind, whatever. Anyway, um shut up, yeah. I always talk too much.

SPEAKER_00: 35:18

So um it's okay, Anthony. Everyone at Contraport is true.

SPEAKER_01: 35:29

I it's fully bell. I like Matthew, man. He's like there's a like there's a couple of really cool settings out there, man.

SPEAKER_00: 35:39

He's definitely I should have. Yeah, but he's awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 35:42

Do not dare, do not dare block him. He's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 35:46

I really, really I can't block the Twitter people anyway.

SPEAKER_01: 35:48

No, no, no. Don't you dare anyway. I really like him. Um, but yeah, like I it it is I I am looking forward to just uh the like getting to spend time with with both of these priests because I think like they need to just have like a guy to hang out and talk with, and maybe even them get to like say some of the hardships they're under that they can't say to their parish members, you know what I mean? Like they just need a friend, and they don't have other like they're not living in community like they used to. Like they're I the priest that's coming to Italy, dude. The guy runs three parishes, like he's running three parishes, he's the lead pastor at three parishes. Do you know what kind of life he lives? It's like bouncing from one to the other to the other, said daily mass, this man. He's saying three masses in three different parishes on a Sunday. That is way too much for one priest to handle. And it goes to the priest at the at the at the Novus Ordo parish this weekend talking about how there's only five American seminarians coming in.

SPEAKER_00: 36:48

So now did he mention how many H1B seminarians were coming in, though?

SPEAKER_01: 36:51

Yeah, he did. He said, Thank God for these Indian priests that are coming in. And I said, like, they went through all this trouble to put the mass in the vernacular, and then they brought a bunch of priests over from other countries that you can't understand a word they're saying anyway.

SPEAKER_00: 37:04

But you can't not only can you not understand, I mean, their formation is just awful.

SPEAKER_01: 37:09

You really don't know. I mean, I look, there's some of them like they are faithful, do not get me wrong. I like I've gone to confession with a couple of Indian priests, and like you know they're super faithful, like they've asked me questions, but like uh like some of the penances that you get are just like, What? What did you just uh like man? It's just it's just a dumpster fire for these men. So that's what I'm saying. Like, the the idea of fixing your home parish, man, it's an uphill battle, and you'll be at it for years, and you might get a trinket thrown at you.

SPEAKER_00: 37:44

Well, and like so kind of go to this comment here. So, uh, yeah, this is about our diocese here in the diocese of Duluth. Our bishop is having um a good number of the parishes celebrate at Orientum. Um, and like our our local priest is good. We've had him over for dinner. He uh he loves Bishop Schneider. He says uh Dominus Est by Schneider is one of his favorite books. Um, he introduced uh a kneeler for people who wanted to start kneeling for communion, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 38:14

And I'll bless that bishop, even though like to even say, Hey, let's I guess I'll just not finish my speech. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you're right, you're right. Go ahead, I'm sorry, but it's I do that a lot. I I apologize.

SPEAKER_00: 38:25

Um but at the same time, like the Lenten retreat, instead of having a Lenten retreat about um penance or sacrifice or things like that, it's some liberal Benedictine monk who's gonna come and talk about welcoming the other, yeah. Like, really? Yeah, yeah, man. Like and and and it's I know who organized it, and it's the same uh 30-year-old feminist woman who is in charge of uh faith formation for children in her parish. So it's like, no, sorry, I'm no, I'm I'm not gonna be involved in that parish. It's just how happened.

SPEAKER_01: 39:02

How uh it might be a locals discussion. I I'll leave that to you, what you what you're open to sharing. Um, because me me and Rob have been talking about just both of our own struggles with this stuff, and uh yeah, we can talk about locals. We'll do that on locals, yeah. It's uh because we've both just been sharing like both of our struggles with certain things, like just how just how difficult they have made it to be Catholic at this point, man. Like it really is difficult to raise your children Catholic because it'll go to um look, like a lot of us that are driving an hour plus to go to mass on Sunday. There's a toll that comes with that. And it's easy when your kids are little, um, because your kids just do what you say when they're little, but you do an hour and a half drive to mass, and your kids are little in the car, but then when they get to mass, they're ready to rip their hair out because they've been sitting in a car for an hour and a half, and then and it's like we make the joke Nova Sordo babies cry, but. These poor trad babies have been sitting in the car for an hour and a half, and then you get them to mass, and they're like, they're you know, it's really difficult.

SPEAKER_00: 40:06

Yeah, so then one of the two parents one of the two parents isn't even presenting to you know to be present for the mask because they're dealing with that. And I'll tell you one one thing I have uh been seeing. Yeah, I didn't let still add to mass we go to.

SPEAKER_01: 40:22

Uh there's something I saw, and I didn't want to mention it when it happened because uh I know the people probably saw me at Mass that day, and I didn't want to come in the next show and like talk about it. But a couple of weeks ago, I was at Mass, and there's uh uh a husband and wife there, young coup, young couple. They're like in their you know, mid to late 20s, and they got four kids, and the wife has an infant attached to her, basically breastfeeding the baby. There's a two-year-old, a four-year-old, and a five-year-old, and the wife's got the the the infant holding her, and the the two four and five-year-old are fighting, and the dad is just watching mass up ahead, and every once in a while he'll look down and he'll just go, stop, and then he'll go like this. And the wife is holding the baby, and now she's trying to deal with the toddlers, and the dad is not doing anything, and I'm like sitting there and I'm just like, Man, what are you? What are you like? You're the father, man. Like, I was just so disappointed in the husband that he left. Like, at one point, the one of the one of the toddlers fell and hit their face on the on the pew, and the wife takes the toddler outside, she's got an infant in her arm, she takes the toddler outside, and then the two other ones are fighting in the pew, and the dad is still just watching the liturgy up ahead. And it's like, this is at a trad parish, and this trad dad is so enamored with the liturgy that he doesn't even know that he's ruining mass for everybody around him. Like, everyone around him is just like, dude, can you like your kids are literally like fighting in the aisle, like you because a lot of this is base dad, not based dad, absolutely not. No, lazy dad, it's lazy dad, and it's it's dad letting his wife run the home dad, and it's frustrating, not even because the kids are making noise, like a deal with the kids making noise, it's more just that dad could actually just look at those kids sternly, and if they had a proper fear of their father, they would they would button up, or he needs to take them outside and have a talk with them or something, and it's like it's more just like I see a lot of these young men in mass with their kids and leaving their wife to do everything. And I'm just like, Man, you you men like I you know, we we got a lot to say about women and my women, this, women, that man, you men. My kids, when we when when they were little at mass, if they started acting up, I would just give them a look and they knew I better shut up or there's gonna be a problem. So it's yeah, like the young men do kind of suck. And I didn't I didn't want to say that at the next show because I was just at that, but this is a couple weeks back, so and then you have the other opposite extreme where the dad's holding the infant and the toddler and he's trying to keep the infant quiet, and the wife's just sitting there doing another. It's like you guys are a team when you're at mass, you both have to work together, you both have to help each other, and you do have to do everything you can to make mass peaceful for everyone around you. I obviously kids are going to make noise. I'm not saying your kids can't make noise, but you do have to do whatever's in your ability to keep your children settled the best you can. I mean, you can't control children fully, obviously. But like even when when we came for um Sebastian's christening, like there were times you had to, you know, take the take the kids out because you have to settle them down and stuff, but that's just what you do as a father. Like, you just you know, kids have been cooped up in the car all day, stuff like that. So so um, but yeah, the idea that you're keep you're driving this. Imagine Annette Mass all amped up on Nick Max Anthony now and driving this avenue in front of them. It's it well, the thing is because I get very frustrated at a at a novice ordo because the music sucks and this is terrible and this is terrible. And then you go to a trad parish and you're just like, This dad. Like, all I want to do is fix men. You don't understand. That's like all I all I want to do is just fix men. When I see men, I'm just like, I want to fix this kid, I want to take him outside and I want to fix them. Like, I I I want to make men of these boys, it's it's frustrating at times. Um, yeah, that's a good point. I love Midnight Mask that all the kids are sleeping. Um, but it goes to it goes to uh the conversation Rob and I have been talking about well, like just the the the toll that the drive takes and and what the and and what happens later on when your kids are older is that they they they grow to hate that mass takes all day, right? So when the kids are little, they'll do what you say, but when they get older, it's like oh mass five hours out of our day. Like that's not supposed to be that way, you know what I mean? So I it's like, yeah, all right, maybe go fix the parish next to you, but that's not gonna happen. So like we're we're just it they just have made everything so difficult to be Catholic, man. It really just sucks. It's tough. We live in a we live in a very difficult time, kids. That's why you all tune into this show twice a week. Get your get your get your spiritual complaining nourishment. I don't know. It's rough. What do you what do you think on the uh fixing your local parish?

SPEAKER_00: 45:52

Um I mean I'm at the point where I think it's probably best for the church if most of those parishes honestly die. Yeah. Like um that like there are some I would assist. I would I would uh hell I would let's just say I would commit euthanasia with some parishes. I really would.

SPEAKER_01: 46:13

Um okay, so this is a good comment. So my wife isn't Catholic, so I go with my two toddler boys myself every week. They're usually pretty good, but some weeks are an adventure. Um, that's my brother. My brother's in that situation. Uh his wife sometimes will go with him, but for the most part, he's taking his boys to mass on Sunday. And he, I mean, they're really good now, though. Like my my brother's kids, they're I think they're uh maybe six and four. And he does like Catholic trivia with them. He reads them old Bible stories. Like he like when I go when I go and see them, he's like, Go ahead, Aunt, to quiz them on anything. And like I'll ask them like to name and then Aunt goes, sorry, that's too much work.

SPEAKER_00: 46:53

I don't do trivia.

SPEAKER_01: 46:54

I don't do trivia anymore. No, I'll ask them the apostles' names, they know all the apostles' name, they really know their stuff. Um, I'm realizing I'm incredibly blessed by God that I have a TLM 15 minutes away from you. Are yeah, definitely are. I opened my um I opened uh my talk at the conference over the weekend with my uh I don't trust cradle trad' joke. I don't trust cradle. And they laughed. They did that. We gotta laugh. I don't trust cradle trads. If you haven't had to sit through uh what did I say, what song did I say? If you haven't had to sit through table of plenty, yeah. You don't have your Catholic street cred. I don't know. It actually explains a lot about Michael Batt, doesn't it? He's uh yeah, he's a cradle trad. He really never, he never had to experience the novice order in all its beauty. Uh um, all right. I think we could, I think we could close this one up. Patrick Knave. Uh, I think you you're you're you're living a pipe dream, brother. We do like you. You're allowed to have bad opinions, doesn't mean we dislike you. Everybody has a terrible opinion. I like you. It's okay to have a bad opinion, uh, but expect to be made fun of. Your book's gonna be terrible, but your tweet was great. I'll give you that. Uh but your book will sell because Catholic Inc. does. Father Timothy Geckle. He's a he's a he's a trad priest. I don't trust the neo traders. He's a Saturday priest. Yeah, he's a Saturday priest. Uh Tom, you always catch the end of the show, right? Every single time. Every time. It's like set your alarm. We do this at 8 p.m. on Tuesday and Thursday, Tom. Every Tuesday and Thursday. Stop coming in late. Um, all right. You guys got any last minute questions? Did we miss did we miss any super chats? No. I don't know. Do we have any other sponsors we need to mention? Uh, did we get this one? I became a sede because I went to RCIA and they said evolution was probably true, and women should be allowed to be.

SPEAKER_00: 48:54

Yeah, it's just gonna be every RCIA, though.

SPEAKER_01: 48:56

Like um, women priests shouldn't be at RCIA. I can see uh evolution for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 49:03

Yeah, but RCIA is always one but run by a woman who thinks they should be a priest.

SPEAKER_01: 49:09

I had I had the uh woman at my wife's RCIA tell my wife that the priesthood was like a fifth century invention by the church, like the priesthood was invented in like the fifth century or something. Craziness, craziness, craziness, these broads. Yeah, we gotta get the women out.

SPEAKER_00: 49:29

I think we do not have a Patreon, but we do have a locals, and we will actually be moving over to locals here shortly. So go to avoidingbabylon.locals.com. And uh you can watch a one-time show for four dollars or for five dollars a month. You can watch all of them.

SPEAKER_01: 49:47

Uh and I think it's what fifty a year, fifty for the year or five dollars a month, or you can watch one episode for four bucks, which a lot of people did for the Daniel O'Connor episode. But if you guys enjoyed the Daniel O'Connor, like what we typically do on locals is talk about more personal stuff, like Rob might share a personal thing. I'll talk about some I'll talk about a lot of behind-the-scenes Catholic content stuff that you know we don't we don't want to you know gossip on Twitter uh YouTube about, but we do if you've you're if you're too broke for locals, go over and watch um what are Latin Slavs?

SPEAKER_00: 50:18

Latin Slavs.

SPEAKER_01: 50:19

Yeah, they start at nine. So Latin Slavs podcast starts in five minutes. So if you're too broke and you wanna go watch the uh avoiding Babylon spin-off, they're called Latin Slavs. But if you want to watch the real show, we go over to locals, and uh I have some stuff to share on locals that we're gonna get into. I want to talk about uh my experience hanging out with Father Altman, doing doing some shots at tequila with him, uh and how my opinion has uh changed a bit on him. How uh uh oh, John Henry Weston. I I spent so I I all right we'll do it on the other side. Yeah, John Henry Weston and I shared an Airbnb and I had some really good conversations with him. So um, all right, we'll do that over there. We'll we'll give you guys the inside scoop about what happened in the superseeker trad meeting.

SPEAKER_00: 51:07

Um, let me uh post the locals link here before we go. Do we have a good outro video? Uh really, I can just play one of the other ads. Play the knick tag commercial. You can play the knick-knack commercial or requisite. Um okay, I'm pinning the locals link. This is the best way to go.

SPEAKER_01: 51:31

You watch locals live and then watch Latin Slavs the next day. Sorry, Majarian, but our live show is a little more important. Tom, you finally joined locals? You finally joined locals. Good boy.

SPEAKER_00: 51:43

Let's see what other videos we got that I can play. Oh, I got I got a funny one. I got a funny one. It it's not new, it's not brand new, but we only played it once or twice.

unknown: 51:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 51:53

All right. We'll see you guys on the other side. Thank you for joining. A couple months ago, these two wild ducks landed in my pool. It was amazing. They're from Canada or someplace, and it was mating season. They had some ducklings. This is great. Then I come out one day.

SPEAKER_02: 53:23

I guess.