Fulton Sheen to be Beatified while Roche Digs Himself a Bigger Hole

Want the truth about where the trad world stands—without the coping or the clickbait? We follow the threads from Bishop Fulton Sheen’s long-delayed beatification, through Cardinal Roche’s letter on the liturgy, to the uncomfortable reality that a so-called youth movement has quietly gone gray.

We get honest about what younger men are actually dealing with: a wrecked dating market, credential mills, debt-squeezed housing, and a job landscape warped by visas and offshoring. Against those pressures, endless arguments about documents and labels feel like theater. Tradition doesn’t need to be softer—it needs to be lived. Less quote-mining, more discipline. Less outrage, more parish life. Teach a traditional Catholic life. Live it for a century. Then evaluate the council when the smoke clears.

We dive into Roche’s claim that the older books were a concession never intended to grow and hold it up to Benedict’s “mutual enrichment.” On the ground, where both forms coexist, reverence improves, and people discover the old rite without fleeing their parishes. That matters more than any memo. We also sit with Fulton Sheen’s “ape of the Church,” why hindsight on Vatican II is tricky, and why Sheen still draws seekers who are hungry for clarity and beauty.

Finally, we talk about Scott Adams and the risk of treating salvation like a hack. Baptism, repentance, confession, and real community are not optional extras. The Sunday obligation protects the habit of belonging when screens tempt us to go it alone. If beauty saves, it does so in the flesh: Mass, meals, laughter, and the steady weight of shared prayer.

Join us for a candid, hopeful reset. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs this conversation, and leave a review to help more people find the show. Then tell us: what should a real trad rebrand look like where you live?

Chapters

• 0:00 Cold Open And 90s Hair Jokes
• 2:20 Italy Pilgrimage Details And Pricing
• 6:40 Sponsors, Discounts, And Inside Baseball
• 11:00 Tonight’s Agenda: Sheen, Adams, Roche
• 12:30 Bishop Sheen: Beatification And Legacy
• 20:30 Vatican II, Obedience, And Prophecy
• 27:30 Cardinal Roche’s Letter And Liturgy
• 37:30 Mutual Enrichment And Parish Reality
• 45:00 Trad Movement Needs A Rebrand
• 57:30 Youth Priorities Vs. Trad Abstractions
• 1:09:00 Media Boom, COVID, And Contraction

Transcript

SPEAKER_07: 1:06

I think that's the best best way to hate it. That's where I don't get the Murphs. I don't know why I was wearing a MERS. I hate it though. What's funny is doesn't your son have that exact haircut?

SPEAKER_02: 1:21

Yes!

SPEAKER_06: 1:27

So for everybody who doesn't know, I never watched the intro videos beforehand. Rob just sees them because I kind of like to be surprised. It's like does Taffy know music? It's all music. Well, I don't think I think that's all AI, right? Yeah, it won't go. I don't, I don't, yeah, that was awful, man. Oh my gosh. What a terrible intro.

SPEAKER_07: 1:47

And never had that hair, but he had frosted tips.

SPEAKER_06: 1:53

I had when I was in like uh middle school up until like maybe 10th grade, I had hair down like here. Like I had like, I mean, I was it was Kurt Cobain hair, yeah. It was the 90s. I had it was like I think I I probably got pictures of that. Nicole probably does. I'll try to find them, but yeah, man. I had like, you know, we all grew our hair long back then. It wasn't like the Zoomers where it was just puffy on top, like you grew your hair long, you grew it like Kurt Cobain back then.

SPEAKER_07: 2:19

Um man, that was great.

SPEAKER_06: 2:21

There are there are about uh 18 spots left for the pilgrimage, by the way. So uh we're doing Italy in November 30th to December 9th. Um, it's an interesting group that's reaching out to me. It's a lot of young people, man. Like people in their in their 20s, uh, single, like guys and girls. Then um our friend Courtney, who we met in North Carolina, asked me about it. He's gonna he's possibly bringing his wife and his 19-year-old. I'm bringing my wife and three kids. So my son's 20, my daughter's nine. It's gonna be a very young group. Um, and then there's obviously gonna be older people there too, but I think this might be like a really young pilgrimage group, which I'm really looking forward to. So the I'm not well, I'm just saying I'm not doing a complete rundown, and you don't care, Jim, because you're already in. So Jim doesn't want to hear about it anymore because he's already in. Jim's coming, but uh, yeah, we're doing Rome, uh uh Pompeii and Assisi. Uh so it's a beautiful don't forget Monte Casino, Monte Casino, Lorenzo. Every day we have we have a priest that says says the Latin mass can be a Latin mass pilgrimage. Any chance we get there, maybe a Nova Sordo, one or two if it has to. Um, but it is going to be an amazing trip and it is very affordable compared to all the other prices I'm seeing. I'm seeing one of one of my friends posted a picture of his parish doing one, it's like eight grand. I'm like, that's crazy. Like Taylor Taylor is doing one in February, his is about 1100 more than mine. Joshua Charles is doing that's how much his presence is worth.

SPEAKER_07: 3:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 3:53

I mean, he's a way bigger name than us. And I don't, but the thing is, I don't know if he's gonna get down in the mud with with the riff raff like I will. Like, I'm hanging out with everybody.

SPEAKER_07: 4:01

Like, that's and by that you mean drinking late into the night, drinking late into the night every night.

SPEAKER_06: 4:06

Like, I'm really looking forward to as much as seeing all the holy sites getting to hang out with everybody after dinner. 4200. It's 4200, Tom. And uh, I saw Tom at Mass on minus flights, right? Yes, minus flights, but flights to Rome in December are only about 500-round trip, so it's a very cheap time to fly. That's why we chose December. That's how we got the prices that low. Rome is empty in December. That's another reason we chose to go at that time. Um, it's going to be an amazing trip. So, if you guys want, there's about 18 spots left. This thing, dude, it like we had more after me announcing that one show than we had on the last pilgrimage for the whole like I did one announcement and like I can't even tell you how many people reached it. I couldn't believe it how quick it went. So, yeah, 500 from JFK, I think anywhere in the country. We had 12,000 subscribers last time compared to 53,000 subscribers back. Yeah, it's it's pretty it's pretty awesome, and and I'm and I'm I'm really excited to get to meet everybody. It's gonna be a really fun time. So, um, but yeah, so um, we're staying in like four plus star hotels, like four or better. It's going to be it's going to be a really, really nice trip if you guys saw the places we're going. So if you guys are interested, just email me at Anthony at a Anthony at avoidingbabylon.com and I will send you the itinerary. So I don't have to drag on about it on the show. We'll get to the topic in a second. Um, also, while we are doing um house keep housekeeping, uh Recusen Sellers. Okay, you are doing that one. Okay, please please visit Recuensellers.com. Use code based at checkout for 10% off. Recky Sincellars is amazing. I ordered three bottles from them the other day. I'm gifting one to my in-laws, I'm gifting one to my parents, and I'm keeping one. And when it gets here, I will be drinking it on the show with you guys to celebrate. Uh tonight, uh oh, uh yeah, so recusyncsellers.com use code based at checkout for 10% off. You could put pre-orders in for their fruit that comes in the spring. They are amazing supporters of the show. We love Recky Synth, they stick with us through thick and thin.

SPEAKER_07: 6:08

We were possibly gonna do our first fat official fat thin ad tonight, but they asked me not to because they actually completely sold out of their first batch.

SPEAKER_06: 6:17

Look at that, just from just from being mentioned on our show, probably.

SPEAKER_07: 6:20

So they have a second batch coming in the next week or two.

SPEAKER_06: 6:23

So so okay, so um then um yeah, I uh all right, so I double dip, all right. He definitely does double dip. I double dip. I get I get the 10% off, and then I get the I get the the what what is the commission for selling it?

SPEAKER_07: 6:43

You get then you get 10% for selling.

SPEAKER_06: 6:45

I gotta split the commission with you though.

SPEAKER_07: 6:48

You know, you know what I'm okay with? I'm okay with it. Yeah, you're okay with this because I'm getting five percent of your order because you use the code.

SPEAKER_06: 6:56

I'm gonna have to talk about I'm gonna have to ask them about the morality of what I'm doing using that, using our own promo code. But uh um, all right, so Archbishop Fulton Sheen. So here's what we're gonna do tonight. Obviously, we're gonna talk about Archbishop Fulton Sheen. I want to talk about Scott Adams. Uh, we're gonna talk about the the Roach document, and then on locals, I'm thinking we do there's a civil war in Protestantism right now over interracial marriage. Ruth Lon is about to debate Joel Webbin. Um, and I have a bit of a nuanced view on that topic. Like, I don't necessarily fall.

SPEAKER_07: 7:34

You're Sicilian, you have to.

SPEAKER_06: 7:36

Yeah, it's not I and I'm I'm sure our Zoomer audience is not going to, you know, be fully on board. Like, I I do think there are issues there, but I also like I don't know. We'll get into it on the other side. We're gonna discuss that, and then I have some inside baseball about what I'm doing this weekend that you guys will want to hear. And um I could use some advice.

SPEAKER_07: 7:56

I'm obligated to at some point tonight have Iggy on the show since because last night Maddie was on the Guns and Rosary show, and he wanted Iggy to be on the show so I could splice the two clips of them together to for I don't know, Maddie just Maddie being Maddie.

SPEAKER_06: 8:13

Matt Maddie wants to be like daddy, is what it is. Maddie wants to broadcast.

SPEAKER_07: 8:18

Yeah, he does. He does. He wants to start a channel where him and I talk about space in Catholicism.

SPEAKER_06: 8:26

And and we're gonna see if we can set him up with Jason's son. Jason's son is nine, and he's got some awesome theories about space too.

SPEAKER_07: 8:32

So that might actually be a funny, a funny little by the way, the way you said this was stupid. I have inside knowledge about what I plan to do this week.

SPEAKER_06: 8:40

No, I what I meant inside like you guys like when we spill the tea, like that's what Molly says. She's like, I like when you guys spill the tea. So I have I have some like inside baseball stuff that's going on behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_07: 8:54

Anthony's going to an event this weekend with some big names, and he wants to spill the tea a little on it. Well, that's what he's really not supposed to. I'm not supposed to, but we'll do it. If you guys have if if you hear him talk up start to talk about Tucker Carlson, turn earmuffs immediately because he's not supposed to.

SPEAKER_06: 9:14

You guys will see. We'll talk about it on the other side. So if you guys aren't locals members, join our local show. It's gonna be uh it's gonna be a fun one over there. Um, so Bishop Sheen, Rob, you had a good tweet today. Uh it looks like maybe there's some benefits to having a bishop from Illinois get get elected to the papacy, huh?

SPEAKER_07: 9:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looks like we're finally getting uh Sheen uh beatification, finally.

SPEAKER_06: 9:40

Which really is overdue. Um, and it's kind of a shame how that whole thing went down where it was already in like it was in motion to happen, and then the Diocese of Peoria kind of had a battle with Dolan because Dolan wanted Sheen's remains to remain at St. Patrick's Cathedral, right? And Peoria wanted his remains back there, and then it got into this bickering match and it prevented the beatification. Now, I think there were other politics that went into it also, because look, I mean, Trads want to make it out like Sheen was a perfect guy when it came to a lot of stuff, but I mean he he was a Vatican II guy. Let's let's be very clear about that. But uh yeah, towards the end of or yeah, but everyone was except for it's it's kind of hard to right. So it's kind of hard to Monday morning quarterback or hindsight is 2020, look at that situation, and you like they were dealing with the obedience dilemma at the time, like there there was a real obedience dilemma. It's like we're still dealing with that 100%, and it was especially once Lefebvre broke and Lefebvre ordained those bishops, like that stuff was crazy in the church, and it looks like there's a schism about the form. Like, I don't know where I mean I know where I fell on that side of the debate before Francis, right? Like, I know where I fell on it before Francis. It was Francis coming that made me start questioning all that stuff, but like at the time, man, if you if you were if you were a Catholic in the nine eighties, nineties, and you know, when did when did uh bishop sheen die?

SPEAKER_07: 11:26

I'm not sure to be honest. Can you look at say it was in the was it the late 70s?

SPEAKER_06: 11:32

Late 70s, early 80s, probably, right?

SPEAKER_07: 11:35

Someone will tell us. I'm not even gonna look it up, someone will tell us.

SPEAKER_06: 11:38

Um, yeah, like that, all that stuff is going on. I mean, I grew up in the 90s, and you you were told that John Paul II was a living saint, you know, it was it was John Paul II and Mother Teresa, and it isn't until like 2016-2017 that my like I was right, late 70s, 79. Yeah, I think it's 79. It wasn't until like 2017 that I even had the the courage to go back and kind of look at the the CC meetings and John Paul II presiding over the abuse crisis and all that stuff, and then even the conversation with emj about um Benedict was pretty interesting, right? Yeah, talking about talking about Benedict being like having that like that classic Midwest personality, even though he's not from the Midwest, like that passive aggressive attitude, you know, and it and finding out that Benedict was behind a lot of the stuff on on the schemas for the actual councils. So you know he was Bishop Sheen was at the council, he was pretty big into religious liberty. These guys are all coming from an American perspective. It I don't I it's hard for me to judge the man in hindsight, is all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_07: 12:58

I mean, the guy was right and nearly prophetic about so much. You know what? He didn't bat a thousand. Yeah, it happens, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 13:06

Man, do you if you have you ever I'm pretty sure you've heard it where where Sheen predicts the anti-church? Yeah, like that that prophecy he he put I mean we call it a prophecy, but it it really maps out where it's I mean, it looks like the ape of the church, that's what he called it, right? The ape of the church, yeah, that's Sheen's prophecy about the ape of the church. So it's so accurate that you see a lot of Trads using that language, calling certain things that are happening the ape of the church. It's pretty pretty interesting. So yeah, yeah. No, I don't I I yeah, I had a couple of people say to me, like, are you gonna bring up that Sheen is a modernist? And it's like, I don't know, like I love Bishop Sheen, like his homilies and like his show, all those talks he gave on those shows, they had such a big part in my conversion.

SPEAKER_07: 13:58

So is your middle name James?

SPEAKER_06: 14:00

No, Alan. My dad's name. My dad's name's Alan Anthony Abadi, I'm Anthony Allen Abadi.

SPEAKER_07: 14:08

James didn't seem right. Yeah, I don't know. James.

SPEAKER_06: 14:11

Are you out of your mind? Um so I I'm very happy about Sheen. There are like tons of um of miracles attributed to Sheen. There's like babies dying and coming back to life and stuff. Like this, some there's some pretty, pretty really good um uh miracles to attribute his beat.

SPEAKER_07: 14:32

You're the ape of Long Island.

SPEAKER_06: 14:34

I mean, I'm not even gonna argue against that. Um so yeah, that's that I think that's pretty good news that Sheen's getting beatified. Uh they even set a date for it.

SPEAKER_07: 14:44

Uh like it's did they set because I I heard I saw September.

SPEAKER_06: 14:49

Did they have an official date? It might be at the might be at the June consistory. Really?

SPEAKER_07: 14:54

I thought I was seeing September all over.

SPEAKER_06: 14:56

Maybe you did. Maybe I'm wrong. I could be totally wrong. I could have just been making that up. I was I know there's a consistory in June happening again. Yeah. Speaking of consistories, should we get into the consistory that just happened? Oh boy. Oi, oi, ve. Should we get into the consistory that just happened? Should we talk about the Cardinal Roach?

SPEAKER_07: 15:15

You want me to bring up the actual letter from them?

SPEAKER_06: 15:18

Yeah, let's bring it up. Um, so Diane Montana, honestly, I mean, I'm not all I'm not usually uh the biggest fan of women journalists, they're usually pretty terrible.

SPEAKER_07: 15:30

I don't know how she does it. She's good. Diane Montana is the definitely better than that uh Daily Wire chick they have over there.

SPEAKER_06: 15:37

She, yeah, right. Brie Brie uh, whatever her name is.

SPEAKER_07: 15:41

Breed Brie Doll or whatever. Breedal. She uh let's see, she went after Trevor at Trident team one time and claimed he was a felon. She blocked it. Not sure how she got that info. She works for the Daily Wire. Yeah, that's true. They just make crap up.

SPEAKER_06: 15:55

I mean, she she works for the Daily Wire, she's terrible. Um, but uh yeah, so Cardinal Roach. So this consistory happens. Uh Leo says that uh the conversation is going to be uh revival, he gave like four topics, and one of those topics was liturgy. So a lot of people went into this thinking that liturgy was going to be a topic that was discussed, and then Cardinal Roach drops this letter on the to the cardinal. So we don't get discussed.

SPEAKER_07: 16:24

Yeah, we don't have to go through this. We can go down the letter, but basically, this is they were gonna discuss four topics evangelization, the curia, the synod, and the liturgy. They and they it was only what two days long, so they only discussed two things, and of course, it was uh evangelization in the synod, and they of course didn't talk about the things that actually need to be talked about, so um so here's here's the text.

SPEAKER_06: 16:52

Um, do we have to go through this whole thing? Um in the life of the church, the because it's a pretty long thing.

SPEAKER_07: 16:58

Um, the big things to point out is the only time he uh cites anything besides Vatican II is in number two, there, where he basically says uh Trent and Quo Primum are wrong, and then everything else he cites is either Vatican II. He says Trent and quote primum are wrong.

SPEAKER_06: 17:16

No, not really. Okay, so St. Pius V, in facing the reform of the liturgical books in observance of the mandate of the Council of Trent, was moved by the will to preserve the unity of the church in the bold quote quo primum with which was promulgated the Roman Missal, affirms that as in the Church of God there is only one way of reciting the Psalms, so there ought to be only one right for celebrating the so he's using quote primum to justify traditionus custodians. Does seem that way later on, yeah. Okay, so that's one thing he and it where's the where's the um the the one everyone's talking about? Yeah, the one everybody's talking about. Um we probably should have known this before we started. Hold on, because there's um there's something very number 10 scene.

SPEAKER_07: 18:02

Okay the use of liturgical books that the council sought to reform was from JP2 to Francis a concession that in no way envisaged their promotion.

SPEAKER_06: 18:13

So basically he's saying that the can the the use of of the TLM was allowed, but was never ever ever meant to in any way promote it or let it grow, which flies in the face of Samoa and Pontificum. Like if you just read Samoan Pontificum, Samoan Pontificum talked about mutual enrichment, that that actually having these met that having the the the two rites at one parish might enrich one another. And let and look, I I catch a little crap for this, but I do think in in those diocesan parishes where the Latin masses said where they do have both forms, like I don't I don't I it it's definitely anecdotal, like don't get it's definitely anecdotal, and it's just my particular experience. So I don't want to say this like as a broad thing because I don't know what it's like in other places, but in my particular area, there's there's something I feel more at home in those diocesan TLMs than I do at the SSPX. That's just anecdotal. I I know tons of people that go to the SSPX and they feel right at home with them, and they're beautiful communities. But my particular experience is that, and um, but I also don't have like an FSSP near me, I don't have an institute near me, so I don't know what those are like. I don't know if it's just this particular chapel. I don't know, it could be anything, but um, there is some some bit of mutual enrichment, I think, that does I would say obviously the TLM enriches the Novusordo.

SPEAKER_07: 19:49

The Novus Ordo, right? You see that in pairs that they do both. The Novus Ordo is far better than than your average Novus Ordo at a Novus Ordo only pair. So the literature.

SPEAKER_06: 20:00

of the novice or is certainly enriched by by the TLM whereas in the the TLM it's not the liturgy that is rich because of course it cannot be enriched by correct a committee made thing um it's the it's the the congregate congregation in a sense gets kind of uh the weirder aspects of drads get leveled out is interesting right Rob so I I kind of want to talk about all right can we bring up your tweet actually oh let's finish this paragraph and then I want to I want to go through your tweet because it's it it's it's something we kind of have to discuss.

SPEAKER_07: 20:37

Um so okay so where'd you leave off uh uh well francis while granting in accordance with traditionus the use of the 1962 missile rom uh missile romanum pointed the way to unity in the use of the liturgical books promulgated by uh Paul the sixth and jp2 um in accordance how were they promulgated by jp2 any any more so than like I don't know so but that there's another part in this thing where he actually uh says I don't see how some like he he poses like this weird thing where he like doesn't understand how somebody can accept the council and talks about the ecclesiology might be later in it there's nothing no it would have to be earlier because there's not there's really not much later in it it's just quotes from Francis.

SPEAKER_06: 21:28

I'll find it I'll find it I'll find it uh because I saw um so what's his name um he actually hang on I'll get it sorry guys bear with us Joe Enders uh tweeted something about it um okay so this is what it actually says says uh concerning okay so the problematic is primarily ecclesiological I do not see how it is possible to say that one recognizes the validity of the council though it amazes me that a Catholic might presume not to do so and at the same time not accept a liturgical reform born out of the sac sacrosanctum concilium a document that expresses the reality of the liturgy intimately joining that's not just what that's just what no that's just what Joe's saying no this is this is taken from the text Rome oh this is probably from traditionus I maybe I don't know all I don't know this is from traditionis it says it says Rome August 1st 2026 no 18 this is from today it's definitely in this I'm telling you it's not in this text he took a screenshot of it look up ecclesi like ecclesiological uh the I can it's a photo yeah we're the worst we should have had this keep going all right here it's a it's a quote from Francis it's from it's from uh the desiderio desideravi yeah okay so if the liturgy is the summit toward which the activity of the church is directed and at the same time the font from which all her power flows well then we can understand what is at stake in the liturgical question it would be trivial to read the tensions unfortunately present around the celebration as a simple divergence between different tastes concerning a particular ritual form I agree with that the tensions were created by you Francis it's not a difference in tastes I I kind of agree with that statement well I agree it's not um the problematic is primarily ecclesiological I agree with that yeah I do not see how it is possible to say without one recognizes the validity of the council that I disagree with like you can recognize the validity of the council while also saying there are problems in the council create the novus ordo can we though it though it amazes me that a Catholic might presume not to do so and at the same time not accept the liturgical reform born out of the sacrosanctum conchilia because the this is so much problem this is so problematic a document that expresses the reality of the liturgy intimately joined to the vision of church vision of church not vision of the church vision of church so admirably described in Lumensium so what do they say about the the eastern rites nothing like it's just it it makes no sense because there are different rites in the church like I just think they need to make this thing by ritual yeah but they'll do the thing where they'll say the novus ordo is the Roman right and that the I don't care what they call it Rob I just want to be left alone like I just want to be left alone get it I really just want to be left alone it's like they'll never leave it alone though because it will grow yeah they'll stomp it out it's just anybody that like had uh because I remember there was like all this talk of um of uh oh uh Leo's going to use synodality to to to bring the to bring the Latin mass back in and it's like man the best line Tim Gordon ever came up with was cope springs eternal or something he's like cope springs eternal because it was just cope like the idea that we're going to have restrictions loosened just give it up like let it go honestly it might be good no it won't be good I won't say that you were gonna go a little far a little far and say it might be good if they take away our diocesan TLM but you know what it kind of like separates the wheat from the chaff man he has it's like come on how much do you love this mass like you think about you think back to our conversation with uh Bishop Schneider and the stories he told about going to mass as a kid and how they would it would take them the entire day they would have to travel by train and then they it would take them the entire day just to go to the mass and it had such a profound effect on him it led to his vocation and it just led to a deeper love he saw how seriously his parents took the mass and when we asked when we asked Bishop Schneider we said um is there any kind of justification for not attending mass if you have a parish where there are altar girls and you have Eucharistic ministers and we kind of laid out a lot of the liturgical issues at a Novusto parish and he said no you can't miss mass you need to travel to a mass that's good like I don't care if it's eight hours away and he and you know he told us about his his experience of having to travel an entire day just to attend mass on a Sunday so you know it comes down to that but Rob bring up your tweet about um and I want to read Majarian's tweet too because Majorian put it way better than I did. But you but you started the conversation and um it is it is an interesting conversation to have um and it's going to touch on some of the stuff I'm gonna be dealing with this weekend. But the the Trad movement itself under Leo kind of just seems a little bit like kind of crushed now. So Rob said I hate to break it to everyone but the Trad movement is no longer a youth movement. It's aging it's firmly a movement of middle aged people us included obviously and it grows further and further out of touch with young people daily so uh let's let's read what Majarian said because Majarian kind of kind of encapsulated it a little a little deeper let me pull it up here give me a second so look the thing is when and I think this goes to um this this goes to us actually having experience with John Paul II and Benedict it really does because and it goes and it kind of relates to Bishop Sheen as well under under John Paul II so for a lot of a lot of the younger people or a lot of people who didn't don't remember what it was like to be Catholic on the JP2 and and Benedict like you had in hindsight you can look and point out all these problems but in the in the time you had these fierce defenders of life john paul the second spoke out against homosexuality and he talked about the how important marriage was we're gonna talk about marriage as a vocation later because John Paul II is the one who kind of elevated it to that language of you of using the word vocation for marriage. I got a question for you.

SPEAKER_07: 28:40

Yeah JP2 yeah he spoke about against homosexuality but it was at a period in time when the majority of the culture did so as well yeah do you think in today's day and age you would be as firmly opposed to it as he was it's hard to say because I'm not sure anymore.

SPEAKER_06: 28:59

I'm not either he especially because he seemed to love the adulation of people so much that to have the youth firmly against him because of something I don't I don't know I don't it was yeah I guess the culture was still like the there was no gay marriage yet like but even Benedict like Benedict constantly talked about like the spirit of antichrist yeah but Benedict wasn't JP2 Benedict did one one crap what people thought of him. Yeah oh he did too I think everybody does to a degree right but you're right john paul the i that's a good question I don't know about john paul the second but either way like you still had this fierce defender of life you had this man speaking out against communism talking about Catholic solidarity like you you you still got documents that kind of were forceful about doctrine like moral issues you know so it was it was just a very different time uh so people that were were formed in that like even guys like Larry Chapp man like Larry Chap is such a hermeneutic of continuity guy and he's a Vatican II guy but when Francis came along it like really broke a lot of people and they were like wait a minute this is nothing like you know I mean we went from we went from john paul the second to Benedict which seemed like even a ratcheting back of even the things that John Paul II did like some of the craziness on the john paul the second got ratcheted back even further by Benedict you start getting the the the Latin mass being freed and people are allowed to look you could say what you want some more and pontificum if it wasn't for that document most people today would not have any experience of the Latin mass they wouldn't they they wouldn't they wouldn't have access to it the only places you would get it is the FSSP and the SSPS it was Benedict who introduced your diocesan priests to this thing and it was it was the it was the trad movement that existed at the time that pushed for it. They would go into these parishes and they would get a group of 20 30 people together and ask the priest to learn it and that's how samorum worked it was like if you had a group of stable believers who weren't schismatic and they just kind of wanted the beauty of the ancient right they would they would placate like not placate they would accommodate and that's kind of how this movement grew so to be formed under that we figured you were busy for your birthday Enoch we didn't want to bother your birthday dude what are you doing watching us so to have all these Catholics um be formed under that that kind of catechesis like when Francis comes along it shattered a lot of people right whereas the younger guys are coming in under Francis and I I learned this from my conversation with Catholics for rednecks the other day like he converts under Francis and he comes in and he's just so enamored with the Catholic faith that he doesn't even want to hear the negativity like to him it's like everybody that's saying a bad thing about the pope is lying and then all of a sudden he comes across under Leo ironically the the the gay pilgrimage that comes to Rome and that's what breaks him so you know it's the fact that people of that of of the that grew up under JP2 and Benedict now you get Francis and you see the Latin Mass getting get restricted those are the people that go to the Latin Mass. Like most of the people that attend the Latin mass today are not like diehard trads that were raised trad. They're JP2 Catholics who especially during COVID when the regular parishes were being shut down or people were fiddling with their masks and dropping hosts on the ground people were like this I've had enough of this craziness. Yeah and and they were like I'm going to seek out something better and more reverent and they went and they found a Latin mask and then they fell in love with it. In some ways like uh when I talked to Kevin from uh Catholic Family Podcast he's a cradle sete I was like you know I kind of feel like you in other words he's a unicorn yeah like but like I kind of feel like dude you didn't like you didn't suffer like us like you gotta you gotta put your time in in the novus or before you have to go to go to Tradland. Like you need your street cred you if you didn't suffer through gather us in like are you really Catholic man come on how can you talk about the crisis when you've never experienced it seriously man you live that you live in a bubble you don't know you don't know what we went through uh let's bring up uh uh Patrick's tweet uh Patrick's comment uh on into oh we're doing this on the other side but yeah yeah that's gonna be on well you can't we're we're we're doing uh we're doing this on the other side because I do have we'll read it now but we'll read it obviously yeah yeah on interracial marriage ant's old tweet was right I forgot I tweeted this yeah men should strive to marry the most attractive virtuous girl they can not whether she's the same wreath as you like the groupers say plus men should strive for virtue to get the girl like that get a girl like that's not uh that's just kind of my position on it like we'll do it on the other side but like I to me your um your values and your religion far exceed what you look like like I I'm I'm I would I I look at it like especially because I know a few interracial couples and it's like the the pickings are so slim nowadays to find somebody who has actually believes the Catholic faith and takes it seriously like I think what's what your what your job is is to pass that pearl of great price on to the next generation and if you don't have someone to do that with just because you want your kids to look a certain way like that's just kind of gonna be I would say if the pickings are so slim anyways go for perfect why not well we'll get into it on the other side. I mean I'm I'm I'm open to my mind being changed on it you know I'm open to my mind being changed on it. I I kind of um yeah I mean it's not like I'm talking from my own experience I married my my wife looks like my my kids my children all look like the Hitler youth I mean my kids with blonde hair blue eyes it's not it's not like I'm trying to you know what I mean I'm just saying I I see if your kids married someone that looked like them they couldn't marry someone that looked like you right oh man like I don't know I look we'll talk about it on the other side because it is a it is a controversial topic and and I have some I have some um I have some opinions on on the debate that's going to happen with with Ruslan and Joel Webbin.

SPEAKER_07: 35:45

Like I don't know if Ruslan's the right guy to have that debate because Ruslan's in an interracial marriage and I think the the the topic is too close to his heart and I think when a topic is that close to your heart you take it too personally and you can't look at something objectively I think it's hilarious watching Protestants try to debate something as like niche and difficult as this when they came and get the flipping basics right like are you people nuts why don't you start with see what they were doing to Joel Webin like all these Protestants coming out and they're basically like you're dissenting from tradition like you're slow down you're descending from tradition you're not in line with all the other we're going to have to tell people that it's like they're trying to communicate you from traditional Protestant what so we'll do that on the other side yeah let's bring Majarian suite up God you get it he see so this is quote to tweeting mine he says think this is basically right most of my recent anti-trad takes and he's not he's not anti-trad in in any sense of the word but I've come from he goes to a society chapel yeah he's he's he's an SSPX guy so he's not like he and and firstly I want to make sure because I did see an SSPX guy respond to you and they were like this is not my experience at all and he gave an anecdote but what Rob is then then he then I said something he's like uh I don't want you engaging with me but please disengage with me it's like it's like you were applied to my tweet a whole exactly but what but I think I think especially what Rob is talking about is kind of the um the online presentation is is definitely one angle of it and uh the propaganda isn't isn't the same like it's not working like it did on us right and that'll the intellectual um an institutional side of of of traditionalism is aged at this point and it's the same they've been saying the same stuff since since the council right like and they they refuse to engage with anything that's actually happening in our daily world that that young people have to deal with on a day to day basis they they refuse to engage with that they tell young men of pull themselves up by their bootstraps and then they go on to talk about that stupid uh Otaviani intervention it's like are you joking me that one year old kid does not need to hear a damn thing about the Otaviani invention he wants to know how to get a job how to get a wife how to have and raise kids and you're talking about this nonsense from 80 years ago are you stupid it's dude it's it's kind of like this it's like when we look at what what the what the what they did at the at the consistory right we're like dude the world is falling apart right now like things are like the the antichrist could be on the world stage right now and you guys are talking about synodality and sec and the second vatican council like what the hell world are you guys living in but there's something about like just focusing on criticizing that and just still focusing on Vatican II that's kind of doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_06: 38:50

So it's like ironically the Trads are stuck in the same place that the bishops are the bishops are pushing for Vatican II and the Trads are stuck fighting against Vatican II and the younger people are like we want to talk about Jews and race. It's like it's like we we want to talk about we want to talk about Jews blacks and interracial marriage I mean seriously older people are like what is going on right now if you're gonna continue to to just completely dismiss someone like Nick Fuentes so you can write your 30th book about you know the true origins of the Roman right guess what your movement's dead it's dead in the water it it's oh man um wait wait wait it's uh yeah yeah yeah so like the younger generation wants to talk about feminism interracial marriage and Jews and they're all harping on the same topics like and the thing is like I love a lot of these guys right yeah um but it's it and and the thing is we're kind of in this unique place where we were in because that stuff was awesome back in 2017 2018 when we were first learning it yeah yeah but but we're also coming from that generation of JP2 and Benedict Catholic so we're we're coming in with our preconceived notion of like like we were the Pope splainers before this period okay like when when Francis first gets elected my son did a book report and he had to do a book report on a famous on like a a a famous political figure and he did it on Pope Francis it was in like 2014 like my son was what my son's born in 05 so he was like nine years old you know and he did a book report on Pope Francis because he's a newly newly newly elected Pope and we were very Catholic and he just did a book report on Pope Francis and it was like that's where we were coming from so when we start learning about the Assisi meetings and start learning for the first time about the Fatima the Fatima visions and all that stuff like that stuff was really exciting for us but the younger guys coming in today it's a totally different conversation like completely different so all right go let's let's go through Majority's tweet um the online trad world increasingly feels like a middle aged subculture arguing about abstractions while young men are actually reacting to material conditions powered discipline and broader civilizational decline a big part of this is that we're the ones actually living inside the decline young men feel it materially we inherit the worst dating market in history we're funneled into a credential mill where college yields debt while jobs are offshore or filled by H1B labor.

SPEAKER_07: 41:20

We will have to confront a housing market structure to functionally exclude us from ownership all while we are saddled with the fiscal order that demands we service debts we never consented to in institutions that will never work for us. And while this is happening it seems as though a lot of online trad space has drifted into unadulterated trad LARP, quote mining aquinas and moral posturing detached from any serious engagement with power, technology, geopolitics, etc It's a subculture that constantly talks about a prescriptive vision for civilization while avoiding the descriptive element, aka the conditions that actually determine whether one rises or falls or how to actually accomplish this supposed return to tradition. Moreover there's no real no real future oriented vision coming from that world. It's entirely retrospective.

SPEAKER_06: 42:11

They'll point to the Middle Ages point to Christian or some other lost order all while there's no serious account account of how a broken debt soaked demographically collapsing spiritually hollow civilization actually moves from here to there's no strategy for obtaining power no roadmap for reversing institutional capture or plan for rebuilding conditions that could sustain families communities or faith there's essentially just Gregorian chant intros and endless pointless bickering let's pause there we'll finish the rest but like dude first off this should be a crisis article no no no Eric's too busy publishing uh articles uh you know accusing ruining our friendships Rob you retweeted the thing too I saw you no you didn't even retweet it you copied I I tweeted our our interview with e Michael Jones to e Michael Jones criticizing what Eric Sabbas posted in crisis magazine look um it's just man it's i'm I'm watching this happen in real time that's kind of fair yes right but that's that's kind of the that's kind of the point well first off yes and no like we've never really like we've always discussed these topics because first off we were learning them for the first time right but Rob and I have had a pretty good sense of like the tide changing and we were like all right it's time to switch it up a little and and to be honest for the most part like the major topics we've done on this show that have really um been like evergreen topics that I think our audience that have been around for a long time have always been the conversion of the pagan world um getting into um young earth uh theory and evolution discussing the the JQ like these are these are the topics I think our audience sticks around for like they'll sit through stuff like we're doing tonight in order to get to the gems that we do every so often when you know when when we when we decide to do a deep dive because you do have to give your audience a little bit of variety you can't do the same thing every time you have to try to appeal to a wider audience by you know every once in a while you got to talk about how Matt Matt Frad wears is wearing a yarmulca now like you just kind of have to do it because that's what everybody wants to tune into and you hope that when they catch that show you make a few funny jokes and they go I kind of like these guys and I'll check them out and and then they stick around and then they're around for one of those deep dives and you get you wind up getting a DM like we got from Fed Calderon the other day where he's like hey I was introduced to typology by listening to you guys because he started off listening to us goop around about topical things and he stuck around for some of those biblical deep dives right so that's kind of just how that's kind of just how content creation works. You have to um you it's I because I want to be careful not to say that we're doing it for the audience it's it's always kind of been I have I kind of see where the I know what I'm into like I know that I have fatigue of certain topics and I'm like I'm done talking about that like I'm even tired of talking about I didn't even want to talk about the roach thing tonight but I figured it could lead into a conversation like this right like I don't I don't actually like I don't actually we should have all expected that document from Roach. Yeah right yeah because I'm surprised by it wake up yeah like I we've we've kind of been trying to warn everybody since Leo was elected like don't expect much like he is the embodiment of the council right he's the pope but he's he's she is the embodiment of the council and in a way that he has moved the Overton window now where it kind of so francis ratchets it over and then Leo settles it in on a spot so you're not going to get any kind of return like the like like Mueller's comment Mueller was like the church of Benedict is gone and it is in a way and in a way it's not because Benedict is just as much a council guy as anyone yeah it's really just a it's really just an another progress like Francis was a revolutionary man. He came in and he ratcheted it so far and Leo's like I'm gonna take what he did and I'm gonna settle it in on a place where and and look it has strangely brought some kind of calm to the situation even though we don't like the calm where it's landed. No I think Francis's election is similar to Trump. I I don't compare uh Leo to Trump as much as I do Francis to Trump. Like the only similarities you have between Leo and Trump is that he's an American and Trump's an American and I think that's actually a really brilliant angle that we have basically the the American empire with Trump essentially becoming Caesar at this point like the way he's operating and then you have an American pope at the same time which is basically a bishop from the Roman Empire like the new Roman Empire is now the bishop of Rome there's something interesting going on there. I don't know how how that plays out but the the what what uh uh what's his name Cameron O'Hearn said a couple of years back is actually kind of interesting when he I'm looking at that in a different light these days he kind of sensed it man you got to give Cameron credit because he kind of sensed hey guys I'm telling you right now trad world needs a rebrand and I kind of agreed with him at the time a little bit and everybody and I just I kind of had enough humility to go I have no business getting in this debate because I'm a new trad. But I saw what was happening I saw the purity spiraling I saw I saw what people were doing and I was like it you're pushing people away from this thing because of the way you're coming off you're talking to people who have been in the novice order their whole life and telling them they're stupid instead of telling them hey look at this beautiful thing we have over here you love you love the Catholic faith let me show you let me show you how it can get even deeper like they weren't man it's crazy because what they talked about at the consistory was like using attraction to like using beauty to attract people and that that like if the if the church was actually concerned with evangelization and especially through beauty like they talked about at this consistory because evangelization was one of the main topics they talked about and they were like we can't go through the same roads we have to look at different ways and we have to use basically an attraction model instead of um proselytization right that's what Francis was saying all along it's like that that corny fake Saint Francis quote preach the gospel use words when that's the that's the thing they're going for but if they actually cared about that I mean there is nothing more beautiful than the traditional liturgy and you could attract especially the young people now who are facing this meaning crisis and they're looking for something more transcendent but the church isn't they don't want to go backwards to that because as much as we got upset when Francis would call us rigid and stuff Leo thinks the same thing of us yes all these guys think the same thing of us they think we're looking for some man I I think back to just some of the boomers and their conversations with me about like in in those times I remember all the catchphrases they use right with the Catholic guilt and like all these little things they would say it was like they it was like they were given magic spells and they believed them even though they don't actually like the it's like the church did these things for 17 I mean 1900 years and they worked amazingly and it's like all of a sudden this young generation in the 60s comes along they're like we could do everything better and and no matter how bad it gets they still insist like no no no we weren't wrong we weren't wrong they're doubling down doubling down doubling down but the traders are doing a similar thing exactly yeah in their reaction to it and they're they're still talking about Vatican II and like the young people don't care about Vatican II like they don't want to hear about it. They just don't care. They just want to kind of be Catholic and they're trying to figure out the best way to do it and the the way to do it is kind of talk about the things that are facing them it it's it's almost like the um teal ryan had a had a good tweet in in response majorian I think um um he said um what we what we what we really need to do is is in the trad world is teach everyone how to live a traditional Catholic life learn how to live a traditional Catholic like life live that traditional Catholic life for the next hundred years and then when everyone involved in Vatican II is long dead and gone then let's come back and actually evaluate it objectively and figure out yeah it's just not the time yet man it's not it's not you know but the thing is I think the older Trads had this model for for how they did things and it worked really well look it worked really well from 20 I was gonna say it started working really well in 2007 and that's about it. No no no it started working really well even later well I mean I mean the media aspect not not like it started working really well in the in like the the Latin master I suppose that yeah the media yeah the the media aspect you got to think about what happens in 2015 is podcasts pop off YouTube pops off right like 07 everybody gets their first iPhone basically yeah well it's like 07 I got my 07 it launches I got my iPhone first iPhone in 2007 or something maybe iPhone launches and yeah yeah 2010 I think is iPhone 4 yeah so like the YouTube isn't as mainstream nearly as main like if you got on YouTube in 2010 you're Mr Beast at this point that's what like he started chocolate thunder is basically YouTube at that point yeah yeah so but what happens is like Taylor and Tim come like Taylor's got his podcast he's doing he's doing like mediocre he's got like 30 000 followers or something which is I mean it's more huge in you know for a lot of people but he's he's getting like steady views and then all of a sudden McCarrick breaks and Taylor starts interviewing Tim Gordon and that show exploded and and then so then everybody starts jumping on the bandwagon and you get everybody jumping over to the online thing and it's like okay let me start my YouTube channel last time I saw John Henry Weston um he was telling me he's like before so he starts his YouTube channel and he said uh before COVID so so before covet he goes we could sneeze put the video up and we would get 50 000 views like that's just how it was if you were a Catholic content creator back then your stuff was blowing up then COVID hits everybody's trapped in their houses and anybody that had a YouTube channel during this time it just exploded like it people are trapped in their houses looking for stuff to watch like so all these guys that had channels during that time they're talking about this stuff and like you're facing this crisis because the Pope is hammering down first off the Pope is pushing the vaccine and it's like you're a Catholic and you're like I don't want to get this thing and the Pope is pushing it everybody's got it was just like man even like Patrick Coffin back then was interviewing people where you were just like you had to see the interview because they were the first ones speaking out against this crazy thing that the government was doing. It was just this explosion in Catholic media that was happening. And it was even breaking outside of the typical Catholic media spaces where like I think Coffin was interviewing like RFK Jr before he was even like a political candidate or anything he was just a lawyer back then and he was looking at this stuff like that's where it was at and everybody that blew up during this time assumed their growth would continue. Yeah and they just all assumed it like and Rob and I missed the boat by a year. So we missed that boat by a year. If if I if I'd have started this show in March of 2020 instead of March of 2021 our show would be gigantic 150 000 subs yeah easily we'd be bigger than lofton and stuff like and we wouldn't have to buy subs um I'm kidding just as opposed to loftan not that we yeah yeah all right anyway um the our show would be much bigger we got in a little bit late to the game um and we've still managed to grow really well you know what I mean but people but the people who blew up during that time there was a huge contraction that happened maybe it's better that we didn't because we kind of came in as the as the contraction was happening people were going back to their normal lives so our hopes our expectations weren't high like that where these people that come in during that they have this model it's like Francis is coming out with some crazy ass thing every single day of his pontificate there's new news to jump on and they're doing the same thing over and over and even then Rob were sent Rob and I were sensing like I don't want to talk about this crap anymore man. Like I just we just didn't want to talk about this crap. So like if something major broke we would discuss it but we weren't harping on Francis every day.

SPEAKER_07: 55:27

We weren't harping on the hierarchy every day like there's there's maybe a handful of shows maybe a period of a few months but we both kind of realized it and reined ourselves in I think reined ourselves in because it was bad for us.

SPEAKER_06: 55:43

Like it just wasn't it was terrible it wasn't good for us like for yeah because this this show has always been for me a good outlet to be able to like voice anything I wanted to you know it's a it's a place for me to kind of throw jokes at there see what lands and talk about whatever's happening in the culture but like I didn't ever want to be like the show that criticizes the church like we didn't get into doing this because we wanted to be critical of the church in fact we started like trivia yeah it was like the opposite of that it was like oh man I guess we should talk about this I guess we should talk about this so it was like yeah this is a long time was winner until Joe came home with you drunk. Which Joe Joe Boca oh man I was not happy about that yeah that episode was funny um so um yeah I don't I don't know man I don't even know how we got into like this whole diatribe but it's just um wait wait wait did you ocean did you have a different name on YouTube before because I don't I don't remember seeing this YouTube handle that far back. Yeah um let's jump to super chats and I want to do Scott Adams before we go to the other side so we already did that one yeah most trads are just wanting to seek to live a life of holiness and they are sick of the drama and just want to be left alone go to confession often and receive the Eucharist often pray the right that's that's kind of where I'm at like I don't really care like I still I still have a I still have a uh I still have my liturgy that I can go to I still have a Latin mass it's like I got a couple of options so I'm just kind of like I don't really want to provoke anyone and I I just want to be able to be Catholic. I want my kids to be Catholic and that's it when it when Anthony and I were talking in this episode largely about trads for the most part I think we were talking about like the the trad media the trad writers like we're not yeah not what yeah not your everyday yeah I'm not claiming like Trades as a whole are are old boomers like the novice ordo no I get I haven't gone to the I haven't been in the novice sordo in a year I've I only go to the the TLM I I know what the TLM is like guys but but yeah on the ground there's still plenty of young people there are young families they're all guys in their mid to late 20s and stuff it's definitely still I yeah what Rob's talking about is just the the the rebrand like it needs a rebrand that's essentially what we're getting at right it kind of does need a rebrand so that we could attract younger people to it again because I think it's lost its appeal the same the appeal that worked in 2020 doesn't work now is what I'm saying. Yeah right like whatever we're not saying the traditional faith needs a rebrand correct it's it's just the presentation from guys who are in the space that we're in we need to we need to rebrand this thing because it's not attractive to people are looking at trads like they're they think they're holier than thou they think that and a lot of it has to do with sets like sets are really you know they're they're they're a bit much and people people associate all trads with sets and yeah it's like there it is it is a difficult thing to try to like present this thing as something beautiful that's changed my life I mean it's changed my life I want that's the thing like I want the traditional movement to stay alive like I very much care about it. So um wow man you guys are killing us with the super chats I want to get to Scott Adams and then go to locals. As a single Catholic it's difficult finding a Catholic lady who didn't get the job uh get the jab it's crazy how many Catholics took it it's a total deal breaker shows how easy one can be I have a opinion many people may not like on this this one if I was a Catholic guy I don't know if I would necessarily want a woman who okay because think of it this way all of society right everyone in authority probably her own father was at that time telling every you know everyone to get to jail a woman could ideally submit to that kind of thing and into her body Especially if our father's not a man.

SPEAKER_07: 1:00:00

You don't want a rebellious woman who who would, you know, under no set who who said no to everyone in authority over her. And you're right about the deceived part. You are right. Like everyone, you know, you don't want a woman that can necessarily be deceived easily either, but read Genesis. It seems to kind of be in their nature. I mean, no offense, ladies, but um, yeah, I don't know if that would be a deal breaker for me.

SPEAKER_06: 1:00:29

So personally, they they they just want to keep us on YouTube all night. If they're gonna pay us for it, I mean, yeah, we'll do it. We'll do we'll still do locals, don't worry. Taking my daughter to New York City end of January, TLM recommendations in Manhattan, we'll be there for a long weekend. I would say, I mean, uh Holy Innocence, and if they have any at uh St. Vincent Ferrare, like if you can find one at St. Vincent Ferrare, which they do do them. Uh, we actually caught one last Saturday when we were there, and it they are spectacular. So check, but they're typically they do like a Benedictine Latin novus orto there or something. But Holy Innocence is like clockwork. They do a 6 p.m. daily, they do a 9 a.m. and a 9 30. I'm sorry, a 9 a.m. low mass on Sunday and a 10:30 high mass on Sunday. Those are confession like four times a day, every day of the week. Uh six years ago uh wasn't a long time ago, but it was a long time ago. And this decade it's really been a dramatic half a freaking decade. Times are shaking up. Man, I can't believe it's 2026. I can't believe before COVID I was in my 30s. Like I was I was 39 when COVID hit. No, 37 when COVID hit or something, right? Yeah, 37 when COVID hit.

SPEAKER_07: 1:01:41

Your mid-40s almost.

SPEAKER_06: 1:01:43

Yeah, I'm 43. So, uh, what's next? Uh Andrew, stop giving me money. I want to talk more about it.

SPEAKER_07: 1:01:54

The next one is along those lines, too.

SPEAKER_06: 1:01:56

Keep yapping here, funny Long Island man. All right, I'll keep going. You guys want to keep giving me money? Oh, that's it. They want us to stay, they gotta throw some more in people becoming members telling us to go to locals. Go to locals. Um, I do want to do Scott Adams before we go. Okay, let's do Scott Adams before we go because uh man, what an interesting case of everybody coming out and saying, Praise God, Scott Adams converted.

SPEAKER_07: 1:02:23

Uh yeah, I'm you don't look a day over 50, and he doesn't sound a day over 75.

SPEAKER_06: 1:02:31

Yeah, I do have a gravelly voice. I'll give you guys that. I quit smoking. I'm hoping that goes away a little bit.

SPEAKER_07: 1:02:36

I don't know if that regenerates necessarily.

SPEAKER_06: 1:02:39

Hope I hope it does. Because I like the first off, if you hear me coughing a lot, it's because I'm like there's so much crap coming out of my lungs right now because I haven't had a cigarette in a week. But um, Scott Adams. Um uh can we bring his his thing up? I put it on the telegram. So everybody was kind of um really, really happy that Scott Adams seems to have converted on his deathbed. Uh, I saw pretty much every um social media influencer raving about it. I have a little bit more of a negative view on it. Can you make that bigger?

SPEAKER_07: 1:03:24

Give me a second. Hold on, let me take this off and open it up.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:27

I might be able to just read it for my phone.

SPEAKER_07: 1:03:29

No, I can make it bigger.

SPEAKER_06: 1:03:35

Okay, let me Okay, so final message, final message from Scott Adams. If you are reading this, things did not go well for me. I have a few things to say before I go. My body failed before my brain. I am of sound mind as I write this. If you wonder about any of my choices, it goes through that. So now, next, many of my Christian friends have asked me to find Jesus before I go. I'm not a believer, but I have to admit the risk-reward calculation for doing so looks attractive. So here I go. I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, and I look forward to spending an eternity with him. The part about me not being a believer should be quickly resolved if I wake up in heaven. I won't need any more convincing than that. And I hope I'm still qualified for entry. With your permission, I'd like to explain something about my life. So that all right, so everybody's raving that Scott's last word with his dying breath, he he professed faith in Jesus Christ. That's a good thing. He wrote that 12 days ago. Yes, so that wasn't his dying breath, first off. Um, the the thing is well that that's it did make me think of that, right?

SPEAKER_07: 1:04:43

Yeah, well, here's the thing I have more faith that Constantine actually meant it. And not just meant it, he had a valid baptism, and he did a hell of a lot more for the church when he was alive, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:04:54

Um, and the thing is my issue with it is that Protestants have put out this silly notion that we are saved by a set of magic words. 100% Pelagianism. The the solar scriptura people have come up with a phrase that's not even in the Bible and made people think that if you just say these magic words, you're going to heaven, and it is so insane. It's not the same as because somebody did say, um, it's like when Augustine said, Lord, I believe, help my unbelief. And maybe there's a hint of that, and like maybe there's a hint of like I think I think people were really reaching with that one. Yeah. The thing is, I don't think it's good to go out professing that Scott Adams had a deathbed conversion when that's the statement he put out. Plus, it's it's better to tell people do not do what Scott Adams did, because there are no real atheists in the Fox. Like, you don't want to wait until you're on your deathbed to start pondering life's most important question. Where did I come from? And was I created for a purpose? Like that that is the fundamental question. Is there a God? And if so, why did he create me? And the reality is he created you as a wedding gift for his son. Like that's actually that's actually the answer to that question. You were created as a wedding gift for his for for his son. Like that's actually why you were created. Plus, I mean, it's I mean, as far as looking at this from a Catholic perspective, though, if he wasn't baptized, it doesn't matter what the hell is and then people were telling me, Well, what about baptism of desire? It's like this guy had plenty of time to get baptized. There's no baptism of desire going on.

SPEAKER_07: 1:06:41

I'm sorry, there's nothing in there that shows me he wanted to be baptized.

SPEAKER_06: 1:06:45

Now, another angle of this that is uh interesting is that like the lack of okay, so uh I was telling Rob this in the green room, like the reason Catholics, the reason the Catholics in America will outlast the Protestants is a big part of that is the Sunday obligation. Because where we're heading now is the online church thing, right? So, like all these Protestants have these online ministries and plenty, and like a lot of Protestants think that is a substitute for church. Correct. No, yeah. So for the people that are that are wait for the people that are listening, let me read that.

SPEAKER_07: 1:07:24

But baptism of desire only comes with true desire and perfect contrition for one sins. He doesn't seem sorry for anything. I think Crash Canon said baptism of desire is essentially really for martyrs who can't be baptized before they're killed, like it's meant for catechumens who were killed before the who hadn't had a chance to get baptized yet, but something happened in the while they were in.

SPEAKER_06: 1:07:46

But this is also why the church has this catechumen period where you go through a year. It's the same thing with that that uh Lily Phillips chick who just goes and gets baptized. She's like, Well, I haven't changed anything I do, I just went and got baptized. And it's like the there like the idea that you could just baptize anybody is crazy. You you have to make sure they're formed in the faith, or they have parents who are going to raise them in the faith. Otherwise, you're actually just helping damn them further. Yes, because you're making them an apostate, right? So I do know somebody who baptized a baby that wasn't Catholic, and I'm like, that's insane. Like, don't ever do that.

SPEAKER_07: 1:08:20

You're you're basically unless they are in imminent danger of death, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 1:08:24

Do not do that. Um, so um, yeah, it's like um the Scott Adams thing is interesting because of the online like people are replacing real community with online community, and that's a major problem in Protestantism, like especially after COVID, like a lot of people stopped going to church during COVID and they just never went back, right? The the the question I had for you was like, if we didn't have a Sunday obligation as Catholics, do you think you would go to mass as frequently or do you think you would miss a little more frequently without a Sunday obligation?

SPEAKER_07: 1:09:04

Uh I mean that that's gonna depend.

SPEAKER_06: 1:09:08

Uh with a two-hour drive to a Latin mass with no Sunday obligation, they wouldn't be going to the local Novus Ordo on days I I couldn't make it to the TLM I saw Paul posted something today, and I and I typically I'll check out I'll check out Paul, but I kind of do get some of the he he's constantly talking about these parasocial relationships, and he's always talking about how like people have replaced real connection with the online stuff, you know. So I'm I'm definitely influenced by Paul. So I you know it's one of those one of the one of one of the people who've influenced my thought on this. Like like Scott doesn't have a church, like he didn't have a pastor come to him or a priest come to him. There was no last rites given. And and for, you know, like I don't know, only God, we we can't we can't begin to God's mercy. Yeah, I'm not gonna say he's like damned, but you absolutely should pray for his soul. No, you should that's the point, right? You should pray for his soul, you should pray for his soul is the point. Like, assume he's going to purgatory.

SPEAKER_07: 1:10:30

Uh at best. I will not assume that. Oh, hope.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:34

How dare we hope we'll men go to purgatory? Um, so Fed, our our resident Protestant. That's true. Protestant pastors, in an effort not to offend people, tell us being in church in person is good, but not required. The lack of a sense of obligation, as in Christ requires us to be in church, feeds the flesh, and people see it as optional. It's it's very important to have it's not just good to have community, like man, this is gonna get into the this is gonna get into the Joel Webbin stuff because I'm watching Protestants telling him you separated yourself from the visible church. I'm like, what? What are you people saying? You people sound like you're Catholic right now. What are you talking about? Separated himself from the visible church. I thought the church was made up of a body of invisible believers who just like-minded believers, and the church is not visible like that, like the wackiness that you hear come out of evangelicalism sometimes, you're just like, Man, you guys, you guys have to maintain a steady position. But pray for Scott Adams. I like Scott Adams has he's done a lot of good for a lot of people. I saw um uh a Catholic account creation two four-seven or something talking about how like listening to Scott in 2016 actually made him change his his perspective on business and everything. Like Scott taught him about like persuasion, and then the guy was able to you know get his ass in gear to start his own business and stuff. Like Scott did a lot of good in the natural order.

SPEAKER_07: 1:12:01

I never listened to him. I all I know is he did the Dilbert thing. Maybe that's why it's easy for me to say, like, all evidence shows he's as likely in hell as in heaven. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_06: 1:12:14

Yeah, I don't know. I have no connection guy, I won't presume to know God's mercy. I won't presume to know if Scott actually had repentance. That was my main issue, is that it he's like he said the magic words, but it wasn't like I've I am I am depending on Christ for mercy for the wicked things I've done in my life or anything, you know what I mean? It wasn't it wasn't that because people were throwing the the thief on the cross at me, and it's like thief on the cross is like I deserve to be here. Like, please, Lord, remember me when you come in, you're king. Like he repents on the cross, he's he's punished for his sins. I mean, there's a list of things I could tell you. Plus, he had our lady praying for him at the foot of his cross, we all know. Uh, so all right, we're going to jump over to locals now, and I want to talk about the the Protestant schism going on, and I want to talk about you guys about my my weekend that I have coming up.

SPEAKER_07: 1:13:05

That uh what hold on before we go. Maddie would kill me if I don't get him and Iggy in here just for you.

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:13

You want to do it on here or on locals?

SPEAKER_07: 1:13:15

Uh Maddie wants to be able to see it on YouTube. Okay, bring him in because he was on YouTube on Guns N' Rosaries last night. Uh give me a second, I'll tell him to tell you. I'll go through comments.

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:30

Um let's see. Um, I attend a Latin Novusordo and at an FSP parish once a month, three-hour drive. I have an SSPX chapel that is closer than both of those, and I'm genuinely not sure if I should attend there. I'm in a similar situation. I have a I have a society chapel, it's very close.

SPEAKER_07: 1:13:51

Okay, but you're not sure you you it's not that I'm not sure if I should go.

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:54

I you just prefer not to. I choose to go to the diocesan, so um right. Let's see.

SPEAKER_07: 1:14:04

I would personally if I yeah, if I had an SSPX chapel as far as my diocesan TLM, I would go to the SSPX every week. Not to not even to say if it was closer than everything else. If it was closer than everything else, of course I would, but you frozen?

SPEAKER_06: 1:14:28

No, no, no, no. I'm looking at comments. So Scott Scott pulled it. I'm not used to you're not used to me being quiet. No, quieter still. Scott pulled a doubting Thomas. I guess I'll believe when I see heaven. I don't know if that's even man, it would just seem like a magic formula to me. That's what kind of took me aback. It was like it was like, well, I said the magic words, and that's kind of how how it is presented in the mainstream evangelical circles nowadays. Now they'll tell you that's not like I've seen plenty of Protestants call this out, but like I that is essentially what they have promoted over the years as saying, accept Jesus as have you accepted Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior. Correct. So Scott's like, okay, I accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior. He does he does Pascal's wager. He's like, Well, I'm hedging my bet. That's essentially what he said. I'm hedging my bet. Like the odds, the uh you know, all I gotta do is say this magic formula and possibly get eternity with Jesus Christ instead of nothing in his mind, like he thinks it's either Jesus Christ or he doesn't even believe there's going to be eternal torment. Yeah, Pascal's wager. That's how I read that when I first because he started talking about this like a week or two ago.

SPEAKER_07: 1:15:42

The thing is, it's it really isn't though, because Pascal's wager was if I live my life as a faithful Catholic, yeah, I will be saved, you know. Yeah, and he would Blaise Pascal was a very faithful Catholic. To the point was he was closely uh tied in with the with a very radical traditionalist in a sense sect called Jansenism, but still. Not that Jansen really wasn't traditional guys, don't get pissed off at that.

SPEAKER_06: 1:16:15

But how's how's Iggy doing? Is he coming?

SPEAKER_07: 1:16:18

Uh I haven't heard we can go over to locals, it will be fine.

SPEAKER_06: 1:16:21

All right, yeah, let's let's hit locals. We'll bring him on over there. You can just show show Maddie the clip from locals.

SPEAKER_07: 1:16:28

Um let me get the link in the comments for everyone.

SPEAKER_06: 1:16:39

Yeah, so if you guys aren't locals members, that's uh that's usually where we uh we have a little more fun. If you guys can like and subscribe, if you guys aren't, that would help. Always helps the channel. Like and subscribe. And there are still spots left on the Italy pilgrimage. Uh, if anybody's interested, email me at anthony at avoidingbabylon.com and join our locals. That's where we uh where we have all our fun.

SPEAKER_07: 1:17:05

Do I have any fun videos to play?

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:08

All right, everybody get in the locals chat going over. You're supposed to have one of these on, like, ready to go.

SPEAKER_07: 1:17:17

I mean uh you've all heard it a few times, but we'll do this one.

SPEAKER_05: 1:17:23

Come to the peace of heaven and earth, come to the table of entity.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:32

God will provide all the king here at the table of entity at my table birthday at way too well and only come to the sea and her come to the table of land.

SPEAKER_05: 1:18:14

God will provide for all the things here at the table of land.