This Synodality Trend Is Dangerous, Bishop Barron Warns

The spark was small—a tweet from Bishop Barron about synodality and doctrine—but the questions behind it are huge: What should a synod actually decide? How did “the spirit of Vatican II” turn into perpetual uncertainty? And why are everyday Catholics still getting side-eyed for kneeling at communion? We open the hood on a consistory that could reset expectations, sift Barron’s argument for what it gets right and wrong, and get painfully practical about reverence, freedom, and pastoral authority.

Along the way, we share a happier twist: a priest reached out and offered to accompany our Italy trip, making daily Latin Mass not only possible but likely across private chapels in Rome and beyond. That momentum matters. People don’t want liturgical roulette; they want beauty, clarity, and worship that deepens faith. The pastoral playbook that treats piety as a problem is wearing thin, and that comes into sharp focus with a diocese banning portable kneelers for the elderly and Jonathan Roumie describing how he was told to stand when he tried to receive on his knees. Reverence isn’t performance; it’s love braving friction.

We don’t dodge the tough map either. Under Francis, a common foe united disparate trad corners. Under Leo, the tone is calmer, but the doctrinal direction still worries many. Could a non-territorial jurisdiction—an ordinariate-style solution with bishops from traditional communities—offer stability without schism? Maybe. Or maybe it risks a new ghetto unless leaders honor what’s already law: the right to kneel, the right to receive on the tongue, and the call to worship God with proper solemnity. We’re watching the consistory, reading the dubia, and building something constructive: a pilgrimage ordered to daily prayer and the Eucharist.

If this conversation hits home, follow the show, share it with a friend who cares about liturgy and clarity, and leave a quick review. Your feedback helps more people find thoughtful Catholic conversations that aim higher.

Chapters

• 0:00 Cold Open, Inside Jokes, Housekeeping
• 2:30 Sponsors, Freebies, And Boundaries
• 6:30 Guest Intro And Year-In-Review Pivot
• 10:30 NYC Pilgrimage Stories And Parish Life
• 16:30 Pilgrimage Priest Found And Latin Mass Plans
• 22:30 Health, Habits, And New Year Quits
• 27:00 Consistory Preview And Vatican II Debates
• 33:00 Bishop Barron’s Synodality Thread Unpacked
• 40:00 Kneeling, Communion, And Parish Restrictions
• 46:00 Jonathan Roumie Clip And Reverence
• 52:30 Charlotte Dubia, Authority, And Liturgical Law
• 1:00:00 Trad Fragmentation And Post-Francis Landscape
• 1:07:00 Leo’s Pontificate: Hope, Limits, Reality

Transcript

SPEAKER_04: 1:14

That was a lot of work. Next time we're buying fat thins.

SPEAKER_05: 1:20

You guys don't want to know what I did to that cow. I'm just listening. There's a few things I gotta say there. Welcome back, everyone. It's been a long time, man. Two weeks away. Um, a few things. Majarian made the intro. I didn't so I saw that video like uh a week ago or so, and I didn't even realize that was Majarian in there.

SPEAKER_04: 1:43

Oh, in the the Fat Thin one?

SPEAKER_05: 1:45

Yeah, yeah. But second of that's that's Fat Thin's last free promo because they've now said yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04: 1:51

Yeah, they've got that was just a that was a that was a taste for that one.

SPEAKER_05: 1:54

Yeah, they've now said two packages of free chips, but you guys listen, that's it. No more free promos. That's it, no more. I I'll even I'm I'm tired of throwing these. They they say they want to advertise with us, they send us some free stuff, they get the freebie out of us. Now is time you guys gotta pay. That's it. No more free fat fins promos. The other thing, uh well, first of all, Matt Gaspers is joining us again. So a little we were supposed to have Matt on, like I think two weeks ago to do like a 2025 year review. Like, we we've done that for the past like three years with you, right?

SPEAKER_02: 2:30

I didn't make it last year, but yeah, the past couple before that, I think.

SPEAKER_04: 2:34

Yeah, we we would always do like a we were gonna do it early last week and then decided not to, and then we were gonna do it late last week, and then you didn't know if you were gonna be sober, so then we decided to do it today.

SPEAKER_05: 2:46

Well, the other the other pro yeah, so so Matt was supposed to come on last week for the 2025 year in review, and then I was like, Do we do a 2025 year in review? And I feel like we kind of like missed the boat on that. Like, everybody kind of did their years in review already, so um, and we're hoping we might get to the title subject tonight, but like we haven't done a show in two weeks, and there's a lot to catch up on. I had um over the past weekend, over New Year's weekend, my friend Bobby, who came on pilgrimage with me last year, who's now like been on like five different family vacations with me, he came up to visit for the weekend. Then one of our listeners, Jim Pine, was in on Long Island for a wedding on New Year's Day. So the day or yeah, New Year's Day. So then like the day after New Year's Day, we all the three of us went into the city and I took them into Manhattan and we went to um we we basically did uh went to Holy Innocence, St. Pat's, um, St. Vincent Ferrare, the Met. Then we did a little bit of Central Park, and then we went to like um uh ground zero. So we did like a whole tour of the city. While we were at St. Vincent Ferrer, there was a um there was uh a private Latin mass going on in one of the side chapels that we were able to sit in on. And it was a really, really fun day in the city. Um, but while while Bobby was here, Anthony, how many friends named Bobby?

SPEAKER_04: 4:15

Do you have actually just one that he Bobby's just sent a lot of stories?

SPEAKER_05: 4:20

So but while he was here, all right. So so uh to back up a little bit. So on the last episode, sorry, Matt, we will get to you, but I have to say monologue.

SPEAKER_04: 4:31

We will talk to Matt Gaspers, I promise. But we got to get through the 40 Abadi family stories first.

SPEAKER_05: 4:37

So listen, so the last the last episode we did, like I kind of uh I I mentioned the pilgrimage that that we're doing, right? And at the end of the show, we go on to locals, and I like I still hadn't had a priest lined up, and I was considering asking my priest at my parish. I was like, all right, I'll I'll go to I was going to go to um mass on New Year's Day for the obligation. I was gonna just basically bum rush my parish priest after mass. But at the at the like on the switch over to locals on that episode, I kind of threw out there that we didn't have a priest. I was like, hey, if there's a priest watching the show and he says both forms of the mass, like reach out. So a priest reached out to to Rob, sent Rob an email, and basically said, Hey, uh I I he he basically reached out saying he offers both forms and just to reach out if we're interested. So I call him and he's like, uh, first of all, I'm not gonna so I'm not going to announce who the priest is because our show is too controversial, and I don't need somebody like Deacon Jim hounding his bishop and asking him why he's coming. But I'll I'll say this much about him. His name's Anthony.

SPEAKER_04: 5:47

I'm not gonna dox him, but here's the name and address.

SPEAKER_05: 5:50

Well, how good is it? His name's Anthony, right? I get him on the phone and he's like, Yeah, I got a brother Gino, I got a brother Sal. I'm like, Oh, this is gonna be amazing. This is great. So basically, he saw he saw my YouTube post that just said what we were doing, and then there was a young guy at his parish who's like 25 years old or something, who watches the show and just came into the church three years ago. And father like baptized him and brought him into the church, and the guy watches our show, and he said to the to the priest, he goes, Hey, these guys, are you going to be the the chaplain on their on their pilgrimage? So he reached that's why he reached out. He's like, you know, I was considering it at first, but I thought it might be a little too forward, and then he said that to me, I kind of think it was a time for God. I so I had like a FaceTime call with him the other day, and uh he's like, um I was like, Oh, have you ever been to Italy? I went to Italy when I was uh you know on a senior trip because I was in when I was having like on my senior trip, like is Ant's audio miserable for everyone else?

SPEAKER_02: 6:56

It is breaking up a little bit on my end, yeah. It's bad.

SPEAKER_04: 6:59

Is it really?

SPEAKER_02: 7:00

Oh, that's not good.

SPEAKER_04: 7:01

I can't tell you now it sounds better.

SPEAKER_05: 7:03

It seems better now. Am I just talking too loud?

SPEAKER_04: 7:07

Oh, it sounded quieter and choppy.

SPEAKER_05: 7:10

I think you're good now, though. It's fine now. Okay, so okay, so he he went to Rome when he was 17. A week before he goes, John Paul II dies. So he's 17 years old, he's not taking his faith seriously. He goes to Rome a week before he goes, John Paul II dies. While he's in Italy, Pope Benedict is elected. He's like, Italy was ecstatic. He said, and the experience was so profound that it kind of like led to his vocation. That's why he became a priest. So he hasn't been to Rome since then. This was 2005. Um, and he's so he's coming with us. The guy that's actually planning it with us, so I'm like, how are we going to do this? Like, I don't know what the deal is with like saying Latin masses in in Italy, like I have no idea what that's like. So basically, the the guy helping me organize the trip goes, No, no, no. You're going, I'm going to give you a list of churches in each city, and you're going to give me like a choice A, choice B, choice C. 90% of these churches, you're going to have a private chapel, and you're going to be able to do whatever you want. So we're basically going to be able to have daily Latin mass on this pilgrimage. There may be one or two places where we have to have a novice order just because we're not going to cause a problem while we're in Italy. But for the most part, it's going to be like a daily Latin mass pilgrimage while we're in Italy. We're going to have a Latin Mass in front of the miracle of Lanciano. Like it's going to be an amazing time. So those details will be coming out.

SPEAKER_02: 8:37

Um, and other than that you guys aren't using uh an agency or something, like you're planning all of it yourselves.

SPEAKER_05: 8:43

No, I I'm using I'm using a guy that's that's like a tour company, but he's like he's done it so many times. Like, because I was gonna reach out to Taylor and like I'm like, because Taylor's taking a pre-serent. I know he's not doing a novus order pilgrimage, you know. So I was gonna reach out to him and just ask him like what the deal is. But the guy that's that's doing it for us, it's it's one guy I'm dealing with. He's like, no, no, no, we'll figure this out, we'll get it all done. So okay, it's uh it yeah, I'm really very much looking forward to. So when those details are ready, I was hoping to have them tonight, but they're they're not quite ready yet. So hopefully by Thursday night I'll be able to give you guys all the details, whoever's interested in coming. Um how was your uh how was your uh Christmas, Rob?

SPEAKER_04: 9:23

It was it was good. We finally we're feeling better, and then um anyone who watched the show on the 27th or whatever saw that I was in a hotel. We went to a nearby hotel just to have a little staycation, uh, let the kids swim. So I spent uh 15 hours on a pool that weekend. So how about you, Matt?

SPEAKER_05: 9:45

How was your how was your uh Christmas and New Year's?

SPEAKER_02: 9:48

It was good, it was busy. I mean, with my my new job or not so new, I guess I've been doing it about a year now. It's uh definitely you don't get the the week off like this the nature of this job, everybody's required to work the week before Christmas, the week of Christmas. But I'm actually off this week, so kind of getting caught up on the how has that how has that transition been though?

SPEAKER_05: 10:11

Because you were like you you basically went from like you were the editor of Catholic family news, and then you were you were trying to like bounce around and like find like a full-time gig in in the Catholic media space, but isn't it kind of a relief leaving it where like I do you do you have a little bit of a sense of a relief leaving it?

SPEAKER_02: 10:30

Or you or I think it's uh yeah, and some it's nice to not have to keep up with every little detail going on and not have to and be able to do it, I guess, for fun and not be dependent on it for my livelihood. I do miss certain aspects of it, but I mean I have my own channel going on now and uh doing reasonably well.

SPEAKER_04: 10:51

So now it would be a good chance to plug it because it might not give you another one.

SPEAKER_02: 10:56

It's called it's called Very Tati's Box. If you just search for that or you search for my name on YouTube, I'm sure it'll come up. So yeah, it's been going pretty good.

SPEAKER_05: 11:07

It what's interesting is um since since Leo is elected, uh like a lot of the Catholic media outfits that were like booming during the Francis era are really not doing so well, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 11:20

So maybe maybe it was a blessing in disguise and you got out and well, clearly it was because I mean CFN is no more, as you guys have probably heard. Yeah. Uh so I think I was definitely right to leave when I did, because uh it's obviously it's not not I wouldn't have a job if I had stayed, so yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 11:39

It's just uh things are changing so much. Like that's so like we wanted to do a 2025 year in review, mainly because of how crazy 2025 was. I mean, we got a new president, Trump came in, we got our new pope, you had uh Charlie Kirk died. I mean, those are just like the the big things that have just come off the top of my head, but there was some the thing is 26 started off with such a bang that you know, yeah, literally, right? Well, that okay, so that let's let's talk. Oh man, should we save that for locals? Yeah, we should probably save that for locals, but so uh well the church mainly though, Leo is starting off 2026 with a consistory, and they're going to be discussing liturgy and things like that. So there's a little bit of a little bit of um excitement about that, hoping that some of these insane restrictions from the Francis era are lifted. You also had the Charlotte Diocese, the priests in the Charlotte Diocese. Uh, 31 of them sent a dubia to Rome. Yeah, no, seriously, right? 2025 was the year of the gym. Like the one the one thing that's been kind of cool about the Venezuela thing is that we haven't had to hear non-stop about how how like um Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes are the most evil people in the world. It's been like a nice little break between Christmas and then kidnapping uh a South American dictator. It's like, man, we haven't we haven't heard about Jews in two weeks. It feels like an eternity.

SPEAKER_04: 13:14

A couple people have tried to somehow make this, you know, the Venezuela thing a Jewish thing, too, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_05: 13:20

It's it's not like Irag. Yeah, it's not Iran, Iran or something. It's a different thing totally. We got like I really do want to discuss Venezuela on the other side though, because Rob and I got into like a little bit of tension yesterday for how Anthony tweets. I well, yeah, I think there was misunderstanding, but I I don't like when you counter signal counter signal me on Twitter, like I don't like it, so I'm like, what's he doing here? Like I was getting I was getting really annoyed yesterday, and I'm like, all right, let's just calm down, let's relax. That's a go-sleeping incident. But um hey Anthony, I'm new to Long Island, so yeah, mass is past Sunday. I've never commented on the channel, but I love what you guys are doing. Wanted to say hello, but not uh never got the chance after. Yeah, if any of you see me after mass, always come over and say hello. Like, I especially if you go to the same church as me. Like, I I want to meet the people at my parish, and I usually stick around. Um, you'll usually see Don and I outside talking for a while. Like, so after Mass, it's usually Don and I will talk either if it's at St. Rocco's or if it's at St. Matthew's. Me and me and Don have the same parish schedule where we hop around a bit. So you'll usually see the two of us out there, and you'll definitely come over and say hello. We like to meet new people, especially Don. Don is such a people person, he really likes when people come over and talk to him. I'm totally kidding about that, by the way. Um, so yeah, the Venezuela thing, like I have so many different thoughts on it. But I my tweet yesterday was more about that ton of stuff. There was 12 of them. Right. So the one that set off originally was I said um for like 60 years they've been pushing this idea of multicultural democracy on us. They can't.

SPEAKER_04: 15:08

And we're doing this on locals.

SPEAKER_05: 15:10

Yeah, okay, we'll do that on locals. All right, so all right, so we'll get back. You're right. That's a that's definitely a better thing to do, especially because it got into some tension between us. Um all right, so let's do the Bishop Barron tweet because that is the show title. We're already 15 minutes in and we haven't gotten there yet.

SPEAKER_04: 15:26

Which we should probably do our uh actual sponsorship first.

SPEAKER_05: 15:34

Literally, we're the worst at the hate when you do that. Uh go to recusyncellars.com, use code based at checkout for 10% off. Recucent cellars is an awesome winery out in um Washington. Washington? Yes, they're in Washington State. They uh ship around the country, they have some amazing wines. You guys miss the boat if you didn't get a bottle for Christmas, but they're Valentine's Day is coming up. Valentine's Day is coming up, but they're also just like a really nice gift to bring to your in-laws if you're going over there. The priest who's coming on pilgrimage with me told me that somebody at his parish who watches the show bought him a bottle of Reckies and Cellars for Christmas. He said the wine was amazing. So um, yeah, and uh definitely, definitely check them out. They are uh great supporters of the show. They don't just say they're gonna advertise with us, they actually advertise with us. They're not like the guys at Fat Thins or Knickknacks, like they actually advertise with us. So we love recognition sellers, they've never told us anything we can or can't say. They support pretty much everything they that we do.

SPEAKER_04: 16:39

But I do like the knick-knacks too. I do too.

SPEAKER_05: 16:41

I've I've been so it's New Year's and diet and no smoking has begun. So I'm two days no cigarettes.

SPEAKER_04: 16:49

So and I've never no smoking for New Year's. Every year I've known you.

SPEAKER_05: 16:53

No, I did no smoking after I almost died at my daughter's birthday. Oh, that's right. You passed out. I almost died at my daughter's birthday. Quit smoking for no, I man, uh I was just so dehydrated. Uh, and I didn't drink or eat anything all day. This is such an all over the place show, guys. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_04: 17:14

Well, to be fair, sorry. Well, we can't drink things.

SPEAKER_05: 17:17

It's our first show back in weeks, but so it was my daughter's birthday, and we were having her sweet 16, and um, I was like prepping the yard all day. I never drank a sip of water, I never ate a stitch of food. The first thing I drink is a beer at like three in the afternoon, and I just drink beer the rest of the night. Like one o'clock in the morning. I'm sitting and I'm arguing with my sister-in-law, like really heated argument with my sister-in-law, because that's what I always do. I always start fights with people. I was like mid-sentence yelling at her about something, and I just went out. Like, totally passed out. They thought I they thought I died. My brother Mikey like smacks me in the face and gets me to wake up, and he and I wake up and I start and he starts walking me towards the house, and I collapsed again, and I passed out again. I would my body was just so spent and dehydrated. I just started like I so then I wake up. My wife is flipping out at this point. Like, she thought I died. And they called an ambulance, and then the cops come and an ambulance comes, and we have to convince them that it was a false alarm and that I'm totally fine. And they it was just a really crazy night. So that night I promised my wife I was gonna quit smoking, which I did. I think like I mean, I quit for for a long time, but maybe you started when you went back to Italy back to Italy. So it was like a year and a half. It was like a year and a half I hadn't smoked. I threw the vape out, I threw cigarettes out, everything. And I went like a year and a half without smoking. I had the straw in my mouth every day, every show. Um, and then I went to Italy, and the evil villain Bobby that came to my house this week and got me smoking. So while he was here, we both agreed we were gonna quit smoking. So I'm on day two, no cigarettes. Going easier than I thought it would. I thought it was gonna be very stressful, but uh they've they've been tolerable.

SPEAKER_04: 19:03

Nothing we mentioned nicknacks, which is nick, yeah, nicotine mints lozenges.

SPEAKER_05: 19:09

They're like nicotine mints, and they said they were going, yeah, they said they were going to advertise with us, but I got my free sample, but still waiting. Um, so where was I?

SPEAKER_03: 19:19

Now who got us on this?

SPEAKER_05: 19:21

Uh Bishop Barron's tweet. So Bishop Barron's tweet. Um, let me bring you want to bring it up, yeah. So okay, so the consistory is happening in uh Rome. I think tomorrow it starts. Oh, today it's tomorrow tomorrow, actually, to the seventh and the eighth. Uh not a Newport Light, it was a Newport, Patrick. Um, so yeah, so they he called a consistory, which is very different already from Francis, because Francis did not did not call consistories essentially. He would only call them to elevate a new bishop, but he did not give the cardinals time to get to. know one another during his entire pontificate. It was like he was purposely trying to keep them apart for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_02: 20:06

Only I mean he did at the very beginning for the synods on the family. I think it was in 2014 actually when Cardinal um what's his name Cardinal Casper gave his very controversial speech about essentially what led to Amoris Letitia and and the opening the sacraments to divorced and civilly remarried Catholics all that stuff. So after that and I think with all the pushback that that they got uh from all of that I think that's when Francis put the Kai Bosh on it.

SPEAKER_05: 20:36

So somebody's telling me to try Shantex. I tried Shantax years ago and when I tell you they give you the most it gives you the most horrific nightmares you can possibly imagine. Like you have nightmares about like murdering your family and you think it's real. And like you will wake up thinking you killed your family. Like that is how insane never ever will I take that stuff ever again. It was the most horrible horrible nightmares I've ever had something to help you stop smoking I take it. Yeah Shantax is supposed to help you stop smoking but like the warnings are like suicidal thoughts and like murderous rage.

SPEAKER_04: 21:11

It's so crazy I have a feeling if you were on Shantex now I would get a text every morning joke do again in my sleep last night.

SPEAKER_05: 21:19

I cannot yeah I would have killed you several times in my dreams especially FGS. All right so bring up Baron's feet because Baron's feet was actually pretty good. I saw a lot of people talking about it today. So I understand that one of the topics under consideration at the consistory of cardinals is synodality. I'm speaking as a bishop who is an elected delegate to both grounds of the synod and the synodal and I think he meant synod on synodality. Whatever that even means in Rome and who I mean his sentence is more coherent than the actual thing so in Rome and who has just presided over a local synod of my own diocese. Synods are good and useful tools for the determination determination of practical pastoral strategies but they oughtn't who uses that word oughtn't to be forums for debate regarding doctrine. When settled teaching becomes a subject for sonatal determination the church devolves into relativism and self-doubt as is clearly evident in the misconceived Synodal way in Germany. I'm sympathetic with the founders of the journal Communio Joseph Ratzinger, von Balthazar, Henry de Lubach, who broke with the journal Concilium, the stated purpose of which was the perpetuation of the spirit of Vatican II the great Communio theologian said that the councils are indeed sometimes necessary in the life of the church, but that one sides with relief at the end of a council for the church can then returns to its essential work. As long as it sits in council, the church is in suspense, unsure of itself, wringing its hands. It is precisely the perpetuation of the spirit of Vatican II that led to so much vacillation and drift in the years when I was coming of age. So if we must continue its synodality let it be dedicated to the consideration of practical means by which the church can more effectively do its work of worshiping God, evangelizing and serving the poor and let it not be a defining and permanent feature of the church's life lest we lose our verve and focus. This is it is interesting because even the the proponents of synodality have had it with Synodality like it's just that you heard Leo say it a few times already where he's like um I don't I don't understand why people are not focused on synodality I just saw comments by uh the bishop in uh Gaza what's his name uh the cardinal pizzabala pizza bala cardinal pizzabala almost said it like flippantly like laughing um mark sitzio uh uh talked about about this it was like he was just like the the people of europe and their synodality like it's just irrelevant to us like the the the people I deal with they're very traditional they don't like the the the the the western church is just always in this perpetual state of what can we change what can we change where the people he deals with just it's just alien to them but I I don't think the that the guys that are pushing for the synodality like they don't even realize that even the Western church is just we don't care about this stuff anymore. I think Barron I don't know I find Barron's tweet kind of ironic considering that he's such a major proponent of Vatican II and that's really what the synod on synodality at its core was all about I mean even one of the delegates said it's a continuation of Vatican II um what else one other thing I was gonna say I also don't I also take issue with his description of what a church council is like he says as long as it sits in council the church is in suspense unsure of itself wringing its hands maybe that was true at Vatican II but I don't think that's the case that's what I was going to say yeah I don't think that's the case for most councils in church history I think well maybe Trent right like the like Trent was addressing the Protestant reformation there might have been like I don't know we don't know because we weren't around for those councils but they are I mean you're usually a council is called to deal with some kind of a heresy so I can understand that perspective but you're saying Baron is such a Vatican II guy but I think Barron is a JP II Vatican II guy where like the these guys seemed like they were liturgical modernists um and even doctrinal modernists but they thought like the moral law wasn't going to change you know like it's dude it's very similar to conservative American politics where it's like okay no to gay marriage uh homosexuality is sinful uh you know like there's like a few things it's like okay you're against abortion homosexuality is sinful and uh you're against gay marriage and those are like the three pillars of American conservatism and American Catholicism or Vatican II Catholicism as long as you keep those three things intact everything else is pretty much up for grabs. And I think when Francis comes in and he starts playing around with fiduciar supplicants and things like that that was like a bridge too far for a lot of these guys. But they don't care about the the Amazonian liturgy that they were talking about. Like that stuff doesn't bother them nearly as much as just don't play games with same sex marriage and and you know abortion like that that's pretty much how I see it.

SPEAKER_02: 26:32

Yeah it's it's like they don't understand the connection between dogma and morality like you can't you can't go after doctrine and and then expect morality to remain intact. And that's kind of what they're expecting I guess that's how I see it.

SPEAKER_05: 26:48

Yeah I so all right well with Barron Barron's he's such an interesting guy man because he is like the proponent of based Catholicism yet he's its big biggest critic. Right. You know like he'll go on he'll go on and he'll speak with Jordan Peterson about how the church has you know lost its zeal for talking about God's justice and all it talks about is God's mercy but then he goes and writes a foreword to James Martin's book Building Bridges and stuff like he's he he's he's so unsure of his own like I think he understands what the problem is but right and it I think Hans Erz von Balthazar if I remember correctly isn't he the guy who promoted the notion that like universalism eventually everyone no one's gonna end up in hell everyone will be saved. I'm pretty sure it was Balthazar yeah he's the dare we hope yeah that guy that theologian yeah yeah and Barron's like one of its biggest proponents like the the dare we hope thesis uh he also I mean we could criticize Barron for his conversation with Ben Shapiro and stuff like that but I do think like synodality has just run its course and and you what you have is a lot of the older bishops and cardinals remember their youth and they grew up and they come into the priesthood during the sexual revolution and during that time the sexual revolution is happening and you have the gay rights move movements and you have all the all these all these things about sexuality happening and I think that these older bishops think they're talking to the youth by continuing talking about the issues that mattered when they were young and they have no concept of the fact that all of that has changed like no none of the youth care about that anymore.

SPEAKER_02: 28:31

Like it's just completely dropped off our radar we're sick of talking about Vatican II we're sick of talking about same sex marriage and all that stuff like all that stuff should just be in the past now and I think I think even even the younger Catholics coming up like they just they they kind of just want a like even even the novus ordo normies the kids the young kids that are coming into the church like they may not be traditionalists but they want conservative Catholicism they want the gen the Gen Z you know the zoomers at the novus or talking about what the church teaches on on race and nationalism yeah they don't care about you know women being ordained as priests and all that yes do you remember the um um do you remember when the USCCB like came out with a statement against Nick Fuentes but they basically just published a letter that the ADL wrote yes yeah like that that whole thing happened like they really have no idea what is happening in the movement of the youth these guys are so disconnected from what is actually happening on the ground like every young Catholic guy I know is talking about the Jewish question they're talking about race relations they're talking about immigration in such a different way from the guys at the top it's almost like they're speaking different languages good talk guys you guys do know you're all you're part of this show like I can't just monologue the whole time right I think uh the other thing I had and that comes to mind as far as Bishop Barron I mean he talks about you know the spirit of Vatican II versus the council itself he says it was the perpetu um what does he say it was precisely the perpetuation of the spirit of Vatican II that has led uh to so much vacillation and drift in the years when I was coming of age but I think I mean eventually people have to be honest and say the spirit has something to do with the documents. Like that's where where do we think the spirit came from and the spirit we're talking about is the spirit of revolution actually I was just reading here let me uh got it on my little desk over here. Hard in my reach I hadn't looked at this for many years this is uh this came out in the year 2000 I don't know if you guys have ever heard to the heard of this before but it was a joint statement by uh a guy down in I can't remember he he did in charge of this apostolate called tradition and in action I think he's Brazilian Attila Cinque Guimaraes I'm sure I butchered that last name uh Michael Matt John Venari and Marian Therese Horvath who I think has since passed away so God rest your soul and so John Venari as well but um I mean this was during the JP2 years the year 2000 and they're talking about we resist you to the face and they're describing you know why they're putting this out why they're putting this joint declaration out there um sorry I kind of lost my dream thought but what do you think what do you think what do you think happens with all this stuff like I'm I'm looking at um even these even these uh priests in Charlotte like do you think these guys face back they because they sent a dubia to uh Rome but they didn't send it to the uh Dicastery for divine worship like they sent it to the like the Dicastery for theological texts or something like that liturgical liturgical texts right and it's which is interesting because it's it's I mean I got this from Mike Lewis I read I read Mike Lewis's substack um bishop papraki uh a year or two ago the the feast of the Immaculate Conception fell on a Sunday and typically what the US bishops do is if a feast falls on the Sunday they release you from your your holy day of obligation where it should have been moved to the Monday especially for a feast like the Immaculate Conception that's like one of the holiest of holy days for Catholics right so if the if the feast day lands on a Sunday the whole the obligation would move to a Monday.

SPEAKER_05: 32:39

So the US TCB puts out a statement saying hey the Sunday you know the holy day of obligation is um we're gonna we're gonna put it aside you guys don't have to you don't have an obligation to attend so Popraki sent a dubia to this dicastery and they send back telling him yes the obligation has to get moved to Monday. So it sent the US TCB into a tailspin half the dioceses in America then follow what that dubia answer is. So like half of them are scrambling and they're like oh you guys have to go to mass on Monday the ninth and the other half of the bishops were basically like we're dispensing you from your obligation don't worry about it. So then it gets sent to the Dicastery for divine worship where you had um what's his name uh who uh roach roach roach yeah then universally dispenses everyone of the dispensation for the following year so like it was this big debacle that and it's and Papraki and I like I think Paprocki did it because he was looking at it like look this is this is the Immaculate Conception like this is this is supposed to be a very big feast day and it should be moved to the Monday if it falls on a Saturday or Sunday like whereas you know other other other holy days of obligation if they land on Saturday or Sunday it's like maybe you could dispense the obligation but not that one so but once it goes through the CDW it's the the USCB gets the authority to basically dispense with the obligation. So now these 31 priests send their dubia to the dicastery for liturgical texts now they it the thing is this this letter it it's not because a lot of people think it's just altar rails it's not just altar rails like Bishop Martins is telling them they can't pray when they vest for mass like there's there's all these weird things that he's like stripping away from them and they're all beside themselves like does he even have the authority to tell us we can't like pray as we're vesting from there's like all these really strange things no he doesn't so I have a feeling they're going to get something good from the dicastery they sent it from but that may cause but maybe that's good because it'll cause a bigger spotlight on this whole issue and I mean there's no possible way Martin's did what he did with the kneelers without Leo knowing what's going on. Like he's an American cardinal before he becomes Pope. He has to know what's going on.

SPEAKER_02: 35:07

Well what's so bizarre about it I mean if you want to get technical I mean as I recall there was a document released when Cardinal Francis de Renze was the prefect for the Congregation for Divine Worship back in the early 2000s called Sacramentum Redemptionis Sacramentum something like that. And that that explicitly states that every Catholic has the right to receive Holy Communion either standing or kneeling according to his own preference.

SPEAKER_05: 35:37

So I mean that's still the law of the church as far as I know but it's still the law in Charlotte like you can still kneel for communion in Charlotte that that's that's that's not what the issue is like if you still want to go up and just wants to make it as uncomfortable as possible. And what's crazy is if you read his letter the the letter that he wrote so basically what was happening is a lot of priests were bringing out portable kneelers for older for older lay people who had a difficulty kneeling on the ground because people were coming up and kneeling for communion on the ground and there were older people who wanted to kneel for communion and he's like they they can't they can't even stand up like people have to help them get up it was difficult for them so he put like a portable kneeler in to assist the the elderly and Martin's banned those and it's like what a cruel thing to do to these older people and his reasoning is if you put this in people will feel pressured to kneel for communion we just we just had Rob do you have the um can you find the clip I posted of Jonathan Roomy probably find find look up Jonathan Roomy on my Twitter and see if we can pull that clip up so Jonathan Roomy was talking with Father Mike Schmidt a a week or two ago and he talks about how he is going to um like he he feels this he feels this um uh the the Holy Spirit like calling him to show more reverence and he goes to kneel for communion uh and he goes to a priest and the priest makes him stand up and the guy and he's so confused I'll let him tell the story but the irony of this whole thing oh you have it let's play the clip of him because I I I have thoughts on this and we didn't do a show afterward and I was like I really did want to discuss this.

SPEAKER_00: 37:27

Yeah I mean even in the last year I started feeling I'll use the word again convicted to to give more reverence to Christ in his formal in the Eucharist and I started receiving on my knees and on the tongue which I hadn't before I just kept feeling the Holy Spirit just like no you should you should do that. And it was it was a little just kind of disorienting at first oh okay and and so I went to a church and I received on my knees and the priest wanted me to get up and I was like I waited for a second and then I got up and then I uh I finished mass and I left and I had a conversation with my spiritual director about I'm like is that can they can the most is that permissible he's like that probably wasn't the best thing for him to do he wouldn't he shouldn't do that. And so but it happens and everybody's got their and and um their way and I I I talked to to him afterwards and I say let me ask you can why why did you make me stand up he's like well if I you know if I if I allowed you to do that then anybody can just do whatever they want and I said yeah but it's the isn't it the more reverential form to receive? He's like yes but we have to we have to do things a certain way I said okay so so yeah so I left and then I talked to my spiritual director and I was that I will I I then was now reinvested and I doubled down. I was a little nervous going to other places I'm like what if that happens again and then people know who I am and then it's just like I you know the unknown is the is a source of anxiety even going to mass for me just like I don't know what's gonna happen or who's gonna come up to me. So but but I I doubled down on it and now I'm prepared to just wait as long as I need to until somebody concedes because I'm not going anywhere. Yeah so it is your right as a as a Catholic it's your right to receive on your knees on the tongue as a Catholic.

SPEAKER_05: 39:40

So that's it. Did I fix the did I fix my mic? Does my mic sound better now? I didn't notice anything wrong with your mic I had I think I was using the the like the headphone mic not not my actual mic um because people were saying there's noise in the background. So okay so the the the crazy thing about that clip is When I posted that, people below that tweet, and all I did, I didn't even post context. I just said, um, Jonathan Rooney uh you know just describes the situation where a priest denied.

SPEAKER_04: 40:12

Jonathan Roomy tells Father Mike that he was recently denied communion because he tried to kneel and receive on the tongue. That's all you said.

SPEAKER_05: 40:19

Yeah, so I don't actually put my own commentary on it, right? And people below that are saying, why do you people need to virtue signal publicly the mass isn't the place to put on put on a show like this? People who don't kneel for communion, when they see someone who goes up and kneels for communion, in their eyes, that person is just doing it out of pride. When it's like the total inverse. Like for Jonathan Roomy to go up, now he's a he's a famous guy, he's you know, Jesus from the chosen. For him to go up and kneel for communion in and make a spectacle of himself when he really probably doesn't want to be noticed, like he probably doesn't actually want anybody to notice him. Like it probably took like tremendous courage for him to go up, kneel, and receive on the tongue. Because I know the first few times I did it at the Novus Ordo, it took a lot of courage. And like it finally got to a point when I when I was still going, like I would just do it and I didn't care anymore. But those first few times, especially, you're incredibly nervous, you don't want to draw attention to you, you're still you're terrified that you're going to get denied communion. I was denied communion, I think, three or four times during COVID. Like during COVID, I tried I tried going and receiving communion three or four times, and they denied me communion on the tongue. So it the the people who who see that think that you're virtue signaling when it's the total inverse. And the people are really like, I don't, I don't want to make a spectacle of myself. I'm doing this because I feel like it's the only way I can show reverence in this horrific liturgy that I'm forced to attend, right? And it's just funny how people actually have the opposite in mind. So now Bishop Martins, these people are going up, these are older people who could barely kneel to begin with. The priest, out of mercy, puts in a temporary kneeler so that it's easier for them to get up and down. And Martins in his letter says, We're going to, we're not going to allow it because some people may think they are obligated to kneel if they see that kneeler there. And that's his reasoning for it. So now these older people are going to kneel, possibly break a hip or a knee, or not be able to get up, make a total spectacle of themselves. And his reasoning is it may it may make other people think that they should kneel, and that's just not the norm.

SPEAKER_02: 42:38

Yeah, I have his letter pulled up right now. It is he's saying according to liturgical norms, regional episcopal conferences are entrusted with establishing more precise norms for the reception of holy communion. Goes on about the USCCB, blah, blah, blah. Um but he does reference what I had the document I was saying, Redemption is sacramentum. He says the normative posture for all the faithful in the United States is standing according to the USCCB, uh, regardless, you know, not taking into account Catholic tradition at all. It is nonetheless the free choice of an individual member of the faithful to kneel, and communion cannot be denied this individual solely based on their posture. But then you must go on to say, yeah, here he down further and saying the use of altar rails, dealers, and pre-dues are not to be utilized for the reception of communion in public celebrations by January 16th. So weird. So so demolition. No, it's not on your microphone.

SPEAKER_05: 43:47

I'm not sure. But the people are still hearing this background noise. I think it's Matt. Is it me? Yeah. I was gonna tell you, you gotta get a better mic. I do need to do that.

SPEAKER_02: 44:03

Which is ironic. I can't what's really weird, I can't hear myself through my own headphones, and usually I can. I don't know what's going on with that.

SPEAKER_05: 44:11

But it sounds like you're on your computer mic and not your not your headphone mic, that's why.

SPEAKER_02: 44:17

Oh, maybe check your output.

SPEAKER_05: 44:19

Like it does sound, it does sound like you're on your computer mic.

SPEAKER_02: 44:22

Weird. Maybe that is the problem. All right, I'll see what I can fight figure out.

SPEAKER_05: 44:25

Yeah, so the the the whole point is that these guys for once. I actually have a decent mic now because Rob made me get one.

SPEAKER_04: 44:33

Um that's my that's the mic I used to have.

SPEAKER_05: 44:35

Is that so the the sociopathy of these guys? It's the same thing with um with that, with the I think it was was it uh was it or something? The guy that the the the bishop just basically said, uh we've been told by the Dicastery for Divine Worship that we have to implement the Latin novus ordo. Like he was never actually told that. He never even sent in another request to extend the Latin mass privilege, and it basically just he just let it die and and and they sent him permission to say the Latin Novus Ordo. Um I am curious to see how all this pans out because I don't even know what's going on with the Shrad movement anymore. Like everything seems so disjointed.

SPEAKER_04: 45:21

I was gonna say, is there even really one single trad movement?

SPEAKER_05: 45:24

Everything seems so disjointed where they're like there was there was like actual, it felt like there was felt like there was uh momentum under Francis, but now that like we've lost that that that you know like that point of of anger where we're not all it's kind of like if you have if you're fighting with your wife, there's nothing better for your relationship when you than when you both hate the same person. Like if you go, if you go and like if your wife's having a problem with somebody, she's like I can't say you're like, Yeah, I can't stand that one either. Like, all of a sudden, you and your wife, no matter what you're fighting about, goes away, and you and your wife are best friends again because you hate that one person. That was what Francis was for us. He was he was sadly, yes. There you go, Matt. You sound much better. Okay, uh much better. So, yeah, that is what Francis was. He was this this common, like uh, just every the the villain he was the great unifier, he was the great unifier. It was like when all all the all the Catholic content creators hated Michael Lofton, right? So it was like back back then, you could have Michael Boris. What's the deal with all the Michaels? Uh Trads like conservatives after Charlie Kirk firing squad faced each other. Yeah, it kind of did.

SPEAKER_02: 46:38

It's man although I will say at this point, uh you know, we're over what we're like seven or eight months into the Leo pontificate. I think the honeymoon phase has definitely worn off for most people, like most people who were um cheerleading for him at the beginning, like you know, of a conservative or traditional mindset. I think a lot of them have backed down quite a bit on that and are a little more reserved. I mean, at least that's kind of what I've seen.

SPEAKER_05: 47:07

It's I mean, what I'm watching is um like where there would have been like a unified front before. Now I'm watching the like the circular firing squad is happening, right? So I mean you were on you were on with us uh for an episode of that recently, Matt, when it was like we were you you have basically like the the the guys who lean more Cedivacantist basically talking about trading and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. I I don't know what I don't know what happens with all of this stuff. Like I feel like Catholic content is so I mean you have you have like the normie guys who are still doing the like five arguments that totally destroyed Protestantism. Like you have you always have those guys, you know, those guys are always going to exist, but the guys who are actually creating like original content and like coming in and having conversations and stuff, that that landscape just seems totally dead to me. I mean, there's a couple of guys left doing it, um, and there's some new guys popping up that are interesting. Um, but it it doesn't seem like there's anybody working together anymore. Like I don't think you're gonna have some big trad conference where everybody comes together and stuff. It's it's I don't know, man. So what do you mean by the honeymoon phase is over? Like, what do you think is settling in?

SPEAKER_02: 48:34

Um well, I think like the boundless optimism is gone. Like, even from people that I consider friends, like you know, like I think Catholic unscripted was like Mark over there was pretty pro, like very excited about Leo, and and Dr. Kwasnevsky seemed to be that way at the at the beginning as well. And there's there are others. But I that seemed they seem to have quieted down in that regard and are willing to you know critique when necessary. And I think the critiques are going to become more and more frequent and more necessary. I mean, for me, Leo has been concerning since day three, basically. With the f when I heard him say that uh he wants the cardinals and basically the whole church to be completely committed to the path that the church has been on since Vatican II, that was really it for me.

SPEAKER_05: 49:24

Um I I don't I don't I don't know, man. Like I I feel like Leo's exactly who I thought he would be.

SPEAKER_04: 49:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 49:30

Um I wasn't I wasn't surprised for him to say that. I'm just saying, like, I was I was willing to be optimistic maybe on like day one and day two, but after I after I heard that, that pretty much told me everything that he did.

SPEAKER_05: 49:46

I'll tell you, like, it was like the stages of grief for me. It was kind of like I went through like stages of grief because when he first got elected, like there was like this tiny bit of hope that he chose the name Leo, but I had Tim Gordon on, and Tim Gordon was just like, okay, this guy's from Chicago, he's friends with Supic, he's a protege of Bernard. Like, he went through all this stuff, and I was just like, Whoa, we got Francis 2. And then I went, Nah, I don't I don't think anybody could be Francis 2. Like, I just don't think anybody like Francis was just so unlikable. I don't I don't think you could recreate Francis, like he's just was really unlikable. And Leo just doesn't have that kind of temperament, and you kind of figured that one out within a couple of days. So within by day three, I was actually having the opposite reaction where I was like, okay, I I think the hostility towards towards the papacy needs to end. Like, and it wasn't out of like what Taylor did, like where Taylor was like, I, you know, he he gave he he gave his whole like I'm a you know, I'm a obedient son of Pope Leo or whatever, right? It wasn't so much that as um just feeling like Catholics shouldn't have this oppositional like posture towards the Pope. Like it's not it's not good for a Catholic to have that oppositional posture towards the Pope, even if you have those feelings towards him, and even if you're really like if he's not being as aggressive and ruthless as Francis was, we need to just chill out, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 51:24

So there was yeah, and I guess I should clarify like somebody saying in the chat, somebody recently said something like uh what did he say, boundless optimism is one thing, but if you don't think he's even a slight improvement, you may be a hater. Yeah, obviously, I don't think he's at like personality-wise and temperament-wise, the way he he carries himself, obviously an improvement from Francis, but I still maintain I don't doctrinally there's simply not much there's not a substantial difference between Francis and Leo, not from what I've seen. Um there's certainly a difference in aesthetics, but I don't when you get I mean Leo has on multiple occasions, as we all know, praised Francis, you know, claims that he's already in heaven looking down, praying for us, all that kind of stuff. But then also getting into the Vatican II stuff, uh like I said, on day three, he in his first formal, and I think he's probably gonna bring up Vatican II. I'll be surprised if he doesn't bring up the council during the consistory and and anchor it all in obedience to the council.

SPEAKER_05: 52:26

I mean, but what do you expect?

SPEAKER_04: 52:28

Like, there wasn't everything they weren't ever gonna elect anyone that's gonna be.

SPEAKER_05: 52:33

We'd be doing this. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02: 52:35

And I'm not saying any of this that I'm gonna be surprised about it, but that's where like we sh I'm not willing to be a cheerleader for someone who's pushing the nuclear revolution, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05: 52:46

Yeah, but that's but that's kind of my point. Like, I I I all right, I I have just over the especially over the past month or so, have just come to the point where um I go back and I and I think about things that Padre Pio said, and I think about things that some of the saints said, where it's like you like you criticize the hierarchy at your own peril because you are now putting yourself in judgment of the hierarchy, and it's like like when you put yourself in that position, you are going to be held to such a higher standard. So I'm just like, I'm just like we all know what what's going on, like we know what is happening. Like, we know it's not uh so I'm not ever going to praise the stuff they do, I'm not going to be, you know, Leo's a based pope or anything. I'm just going to ignore it. And I'm just, but it it is, it will be interesting to watch what happens with this consistory. It will be interesting to watch what happens with that dubia that's sent to Rome. These are things that are very that are always things that you have to keep an eye on, right? Because even the guys who say they're set of a contest, they're watching this stuff too. Like all everybody who who like kind of like and anybody who will criticize me for for my position on on like not saying Leo's like because I think Leo is the Pope, right? So like the guys who will criticize me for taking that position, they're just as interested in what's happening in Rome as I am. Because I don't care if if like if they're if they are correct in their position, it doesn't matter because the world thinks he's the Pope. And what the Bishop of Rome does matter. Like whatever Rome does matters to the world. Same thing with the Orthodox. The Orthodox are all paying attention to this stuff too, because the whole world knows what happens in Rome matters. So you, you know, a lot of guys will make it like I don't really care what happens in Rome because it's no, you it matters very much to all of us. So yeah, we're gonna watch things like this consistory and we're gonna watch things like that dubia because we want to see what life is going to be like for your everyday Catholic over the course of this papacy. Because it's the fact is most of us are left with whatever options are in our diocese, right? And what Leo does in this papacy is going to make or break like what your Catholic living looks like. So I have kids that I'm trying to bring up as Catholic. There's days where my kids have something to do and they don't want to drive all the way to go to the Latin mass because it's an hour and 20 minutes away, so they they're stuck going to some crummy novus order. So if something good comes out of that consistory, that could affect my kids' daily life as a Catholic. So I'm very interested in this stuff. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02: 55:30

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. I mean, I've been reading Diane Montagna's Substack, she's been releasing some good stuff the last couple days, and apparently there's some sort of uh a letter was sent by one of the heads of the former Ecclesia Day communities, St. Vincent Ferrer, I think, fraternity of St. Vincent Ferrer, and uh basically addressing all the cardinals who are going to attend the consistory and presenting an idea that in order to resolve you know the situation with Traditionus Custodis and get wider access to the traditional mass, essentially he's proposing um that the you know maybe the cardinals could present this idea to the Pope or something like that, that that the Pope create a um non-territorial ecclesiastical jurisdiction, like something the equivalent of uh like a military diocese that's not territorial, but it's you know it overlaps with existing dioceses, something like that.

SPEAKER_05: 56:30

Isn't yeah, so wasn't that what ecclesia day was supposed to be, though?

SPEAKER_02: 56:35

Uh not exactly because I mean what's envisioned as I understand it in this letter is that there would be bishops, like men who priests, in other words, who belong to the former Ecclesia Day communities would be candidates to be bishops to oversee this ordinariate thing.

SPEAKER_04: 56:54

They would have they would have j jurisdiction just like a territorial diocese would, but they wouldn't be territorially based.

SPEAKER_02: 57:02

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 57:03

Yeah, so it basically like an Anglican ordinariate, though, would that essentially be it?

SPEAKER_02: 57:08

Something like that, yeah, where it's not it's not based on territory, but it's based on you know people voluntarily belonging to this juris this ecclesiastical jurisdiction.

SPEAKER_05: 57:17

The one interesting thing that Francis did, which I think is actually correct in Traditiones Costodas, was that he called it a by-ritual, like he said because uh I don't like that we're talking about the extraordinary form and the ordinary form, right? It's not a legal fiction, it's a different right, like it's I'm sorry, but there is no way you could call the novus or the Roman Rite, like it's just not the Roman Rite is the traditional liturgy that was organically developed over the centuries, and the novus order is was basically a new rite that they invented.

SPEAKER_02: 57:50

Yeah, like that's I mean, all the six used the term new right, so yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 57:55

I mean it has elements of the Roman Rite, but the Roman right, the the extraordinary. I saw a couple of that's great. That's actually kind of funny. The the um so so I do like the idea of it being a different right, like like we have you know, you have the Byzantines, and you have like I think that the the traditional liturgy is a different right than the novus ordo. Now, the the problem is it does kind of ghettoize Latin mass goers even more, and it also still I think like the local bishop would still have like jurisdiction to not allow them in or something like that. Like, I don't you know that would be the whole point of this. Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't really solve anything. Like, would they need chapels with it or would they have parish churches? I don't know, I don't know. I mean we'll have to see. So here's what the I don't I don't think this this idea will be even taken seriously there.

SPEAKER_02: 58:53

Probably not. This priest, I'm not gonna he's a French priest, uh Father Louis Marie. I'm not gonna attempt his last name because I'll butcher it, but he says in this letter the creation of dedicated ecclesiastical jurisdictions would move matters forward towards stability, peace, and unity, given its specificity and the experience of its history over several decades. And from this um from the standpoint of sound pastoral practice, it would be natural for this group to be under the authority of pastored pastors vested with the episcopal character, and for these bishops to come from the groups they are called to lead. In other words, trad bishops, which is what we've been at, which is what the whole goal has been since St. Play, you know, the society of St. Pius X and Lefebvre.

SPEAKER_05: 59:39

I can't I kind of get what he's saying, though. He's like, look, there's the like because they're trying to make it like trads are schismatic, right? But what he's getting at is no, we're we're talking about a group of people who want to practice the faith in a in a form that is more closely aligned with the the form. It had before the council, but they still want to be in communion with Rome. Like they don't want to be schismatic. They don't want to be forced into it in a canonically irregular situation.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:10

Right.

SPEAKER_05: 1:00:10

Like we don't, we don't want that. We want to be able to, just like a Byzantine Catholic, could go, no, I'm Catholic, I'm Byzantine, but you get to escape the Novus Ordo. You're freaking Mexican. You go to a Byzantine church and you get to say you're Catholic. Like I want to go to a Latin mass and say I'm Catholic. Like I don't, I don't want to have this opposition towards the hierarchy. I want I want to be in communion with Rome. I want to be in communion with other Catholics. I just don't want to attend your crummy gay liturgy that you've forced upon us. Like that's honestly what it comes down to. I like I I understand like the catechism stays the same. Like we all believe the same thing, but I don't want to attend a liturgy where there's girls running around the sanctuary.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:47

But that I mean, that's the real question, I guess, right there is do we all believe the same thing?

SPEAKER_05: 1:00:54

I'm willing to, I'm willing to, I'm willing to um I'm willing to uh overlook the absurdities of what they'll be doing in the Novus Ordo for the sake of I know I know that I'm gonna get killed for this, but like I know it's not real unity if it's not unity in doctrine. I know that. I don't know. I don't have an answer. I'm not even gonna so here I don't want to I don't want to be outside the bounds of the Catholic Church. I don't, I don't want to be outside the bounds of the Catholic Church. I want to be inside the bounds of the Catholic Church. I want to practice the Catholic faith. Like, is that so freaking hard? Is that really that hard? I don't get why they won't let me be Catholic. So here's what this is Catholic, you assholes.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:39

This is what the priest says in his letter. Uh, for priests and faithful who would enroll in these jurisdictions, so it obviously would be voluntary. This would foster outside the tensions of a contentious situation and drum roll, please, acceptance of Vatican II. There it is, right there. In accordance anymore, though, like, really, what does that even mean anymore? It means, I mean, what I personally, what I think it means is that I accept Vatican II, and as much as Vatican II reiterated the faith of all time, come on, but I don't expect that. What they want you to accept is the novelties that contradict the faith. That's the problem. But like, like look, I if you're telling me I have to like oh man, they want you to accept that mean I can't make humanism, they want you to accept religious liberty, which I was just reading today. Henry Sire completely torches that in his book Phoenix from the Ashes. I hadn't read that for a while either.

SPEAKER_05: 1:02:41

Like, does that mean I'm not allowed to make fun of their stupid gatherings with the Hindus and stuff in Rome? Like, is that what it means? Like, I have to accept that stuff because that's part of it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:53

I mean, I and that and Leo just celebrated Nostre Etate last October, 60th anniversary.

SPEAKER_05: 1:03:00

I feel like um like I don't know, I don't know, like I'm not well read enough on the religious liberty stuff to like to actually argue against it, but like the Nostretate stuff. I mean, I'm a high school dropout, and when I read that, I'm just like the red flags go off on it. I'm just like, what are we doing here? Like, what are we doing here? I don't understand. Like, what what what what what is this soupy language that you're using? Why is our posture towards Jews changed? Like, I cannot, I cannot read those things and separate them from the events of World War II and the Holocaust narrative. Like, I just can't. And you know, I I don't know. So and all of that will actually lead us over towards locals, which we're gonna go do now because I put out a tweet talking about the like the the post-war consensus, basically saying how over 60 years they convinced us to open our borders, they weaponized Christian empathy and convinced us to treat others as you want to be treated, to love your enemy. We allowed foreigners in, they've completely overtaken our country at this point, and now it feels like they are using the natural tensions between Muslims and Christians, which there are very real tensions between Muslims and Christians. We poured a crusade over the holy land against these people, but that natural tension that's already there, it feels like crusades, but yeah. Well, you know what I mean. You know what I'm getting at. Like, there's like Islam has always been a chastisement from God. And now that they are in our borders, it feels like they are just provoking that enmity that's between Muslims and Christians, and that and that is what I think that's what kind of set off the thing with me and Rob because I talked about psyops, and Rob was like, you can't just say that's a psyops. So we'll get into that a little bit, and I'll try to explain myself better because I know when Rob and I talk, it always ends up better than when we tweet and we text. There you go. So we'll get into some of the tensions there. I want to talk about Venezuela because that also caused another uh little miscommunication between us, where I think Rob thought I was saying something I wasn't. Um, I'm also I'm curious to hear Rob's thoughts on the geopolitical situation over there because he knows a little bit more about this stuff than I do, uh, especially with the Greenland stuff. Yeah. We were talking about somebody said today I tweeted out, I was like, uh it's a language barrier. It's definitely a language barrier. Uh I tweeted out therapy is gay. Go to confession, be a man and go to confession. And somebody said, Yeah, therapy is gay. Just go start a podcast and pour your soul out on a podcast. It's like actually part of what I did. And like, damn, that hurt a little. Honestly, it's it's kind of like the the the tweet somebody said about me the other day. They were like, uh, don't take this guy too seriously. Um, no, honestly, Molly, like I was I was on the verge of like exploding yesterday. I'm like, what why is he doing this publicly? Like, if you want something to say to me, say it probably. Why are you doing this publicly? Because you say you say this, you say the crap pop up publicly. What do you want me to do? Okay, here's the funny thing about Rob though. He knows a like 99% of the time I'm saying something to provoke or like to troll, and he's still he's still like like he still goes print. I'm like, dude, where's the but for I'll tell you what I'm really doing in those tweets, though, Rob. Um uh I'm kind of laying out thoughts so that I don't forget them, and I'm like kind of working them out.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:46

Yeah, I'm basically a stream of consciousness, like a thought. You're not actually trying to get to a point, you don't have a point, you're just you're tweeting whatever is literally in your brain at that exact moment.

SPEAKER_05: 1:06:55

At that moment, because I don't want to forget it, and I'm like, all right, I know I could go back to this if I just and and it leads to like a deeper thing, and then I and I like working it out on air with you because sometimes you tell me I'm batshit crazy, and sometimes uh I guess I guess we know who Don. Don I can't believe Rob caved before Don. Uh, Matt is like the kid that watching mom and dad fight again.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:22

Yeah, like Kennedy was that one night.

unknown: 1:07:26

Poor Kennedy.

SPEAKER_05: 1:07:28

Uh my boat's fixed. I don't have to farm money for my boat anymore. My boat's fixed, it's paid off, everything's done. Uh, who needs an internal monologue where you can just post tweets on that? So that's what we'll do. We'll go through that tweet. We'll we'll go through what Rob took issue with. Um, I'll try to explain it better. And it was more because I was trying to get a thought out because like I had a rant that I wanted to go on with it. I was I was almost considering doing like a video from the truck, uh, you know, a truck video kind of thing on it. And I and then Rob started fighting with me, it threw me completely off my game, and I just was frustrated. I was I was successful then. You blew my truck video. So all right, so we're gonna go over to we're gonna go over to locals. I want to hear Matt's thoughts on Venezuela as well, because this is this is weird. Like I don't know, I don't know what my position is on it. So all right, we'll hop over there. Everybody, if you're not a locals member, that's where we actually get into uh good stuff and not church politics. Usually, usually we just tell personal stories or fight or gossip. Don't tell anybody what happens on locals stays on locals. And uh yeah, go subscribe to what is it, Matt? Veritatis.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:32

Veritatis vox. It's based on uh our Lord's words to Pontius Pilate in John 1837, that uh he came for this I was born, for this I came into the world to test give testimony to the truth, and those who are of the truth hear my voice. So, voice of truth, Veritatis Vox.

SPEAKER_05: 1:08:51

Yeah, we gotta talk to you, Trads, about about marketing and uh branding. No, you put another Rob. What was oh I had like I was you know what my original name for this channel was gonna be? Pelican Plus?

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:13

I'm not gonna stop that guy. I don't know what to tell you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:17

That's the clip for tonight, right there.

SPEAKER_05: 1:09:23

He's kinda robbed to burn bridges for us.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:30

Once they reach the point of not caring. Oh, wait, we're not a local yet, are we?

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:41

Hey, you just pulled an Anthony, you spoke without thinking first.

SPEAKER_05: 1:09:45

Oh no, he knows exactly he's very calculated, Rob. He doesn't do anything without thinking, believe me. The original name of the channel was going to be V2 Ortocyclorum, the old world order. Uh and I'm like emailed set up under. I set the email up for it and everything, and I was like, that sucks. Like, that just sucks. Like, first off, nobody's gonna search that out, nobody's gonna, it's not catching. You can't piss off Protestants with that by saying I do like avoiding Babylon.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:16

That's that is a cool name.

SPEAKER_05: 1:10:18

Avoiding Babylon came to me. I mean, I I kind of explained it, but it was through from listening to like a talk about the Danielic mystery from Scott Hahn, and they were just talking about like mystery Babylon coming and how like like Babylon will return at the apocalypse. And I was just like, Yeah, we gotta avoid Babylon, man. Like, whatever we gotta do, we gotta avoid Babylon. I just kind of stuck and I like it. So um, all right, so we're gonna go over to locals. I think that's thouke. I I think I think it's thuc, right? Like I always pronounce it wrong, they don't like it. So uh yeah, it's probably Tommy. You don't have to ban him yet. He hasn't he hasn't crossed any boundaries, but he's banned. Oh, he said carbongos. That's how he gave it away. All right, we're gonna go over to locals. Join us over there, guys. We'll talk. Uh what video do I want to play? What video do I want to play?

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:04

Hold on, hold on. Why is this why is it not working? What is going on? No video, we're just killing the streams. Yeah, we're just gonna kill the streams. It's not working. Why is scrolling suddenly not working? Oh boy, you need me to kill him? No, no.