This Synodality Trend Is Dangerous, Bishop Barron Warns (Full LOCALS Version)

Start with a city pilgrimage and you’ll end up in Rome: we swap holiday stories for a concrete plan to bring a priest-chaplain and daily Latin Mass to an Italian itinerary. That boots-on-the-ground energy sets the tone for everything else—reverence first, logistics second, and honesty throughout.

Then the headline lands. Bishop Robert Barron’s consistory thread becomes our litmus: synodality can be a tool for pastoral strategy, but it cannot be a revolving door for doctrine. We chart the difference between councils that conclude with clarity and a perpetual “council state” that breeds drift. That naturally meets the moment everyone’s watched: Jonathan Roumie describing a priest who told him to rise when he knelt for Communion. We unpack the law—yes, you may receive kneeling and on the tongue—and the pastoral optics around the Charlotte diocese kneeler ban. Reverence isn’t a performance; in most parishes, it carries social cost. The question is whether bishops and priests will make it easier, not harder, to adore.

From sanctuary to statecraft, the conversation widens into the surprise raid that removed Venezuela’s leader. We trace the logic behind a hemispheric reset: oil leverage, keeping rivals out of the neighborhood, and why Greenland sits underneath every Arctic flight path. Cuba’s fingerprints on security details, NGOs as cover for operations, and the way one platform can force a story into the old media cycle—these details paint a sober picture of a multipolar world arriving faster than anyone admits. If you’re looking for a tidy narrative, you won’t find it here. You’ll get tradeoffs, strategic maps, and the reminder that “low-intensity conflict” can live alongside your workweek.

Across it all, a single throughline holds: worship God with reverence, protect doctrine from mission creep, serve the poor with clarity, and think clearly about power—ecclesial and geopolitical. If that sounds like a lot, it is. But it’s also the only way to remain steady when the ground keeps shifting under your feet.

If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who loves both liturgy and maps, and leave a review telling us where you stand on kneeling, synodality, and the new world that’s already here.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Cold Open, Banter, And Sponsor Jokes
• 2:06 Catching Up And Guest Reintroduction
• 3:10 Pilgrimage Plans And Finding A Chaplain
• 6:50 Daily Latin Mass Logistics In Italy
• 9:03 Holiday Recaps And Work Transitions
• 12:05 2025 Recap Considered, Then Abandoned
• 15:24 Consistory Preview And Liturgy Hopes
• 18:18 Sponsor Read And Quitting Smoking
• 21:06 Bishop Barron’s Synodality Thread
• 25:12 Councils, Vatican II, And Drift
• 28:24 Barron’s Tensions And Universalism
• 31:10 Younger Catholics And What They Want
• 34:08 USCCB, Culture Wars, And Disconnection
• 37:24 Communion Kneeling Debate Reignites
• 39:16 Jonathan Roumie’s Communion Story
• 43:06 Charlotte Diocese And Kneelers Ban
• 46:20 Rights, Reverence, And Parish Realities
• 49:40 Trad Landscape After A New Pope
• 53:12 Optimism, Aesthetics, And Vatican II
• 57:20 Watching Rome While Keeping Perspective
• 1:01:04 Ordinariate Idea For TLM Stability
• 1:05:20 Rite Identity And Ghettoization Risks
• 1:09:44 Unity, Doctrine, And Parish Life
• 1:14:20 Accepting Vatican II And Limits
• 1:18:12 Local Focus And Everyday Catholicism
• 1:22:40 Pivot To Geopolitics And Venezuela
• 1:27:18 Social Media, Psyops, And Narrative
• 1:31:52 Multipolar World And Factions
• 1:36:40 Venezuela Ops, NGOs, And Coups
• 1:41:28 Monroe Doctrine And Hemispheric Strategy
• 1:46:00 Greenland, Missiles, And Air Gaps
• 1:50:32 Civil Unrest, Low-Intensity Conflict
• 1:55:24 Islam, Israel, And US Fragmentation
• 2:00:40 Overton Window And Platform Power
• 2:05:36 War Scenarios, Fatima, And Chastisement
• 2:10:28 Europe’s Drift And Spiritual Exhaustion
• 2:15:44 Closing Thoughts And Sign-Off

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 1:14

That was a lot of work. Next time we're buying fat thins.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20

You guys don't want to know what I did to that cow. I'm just listening. There's a few things I gotta say there. Welcome back, everyone. It's been a long time, man. Two weeks away. Um, a few things. Majarian made the intro. I didn't so I saw that video like uh a week ago or so, and I didn't even realize that was Majarian in there.

SPEAKER_02: 1:43

Oh, in the the Fat Thin one?

SPEAKER_03: 1:45

Yeah, yeah. But second off, that's that's Fat Fin's last free promo because they've now yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02: 1:51

Yeah, they've got that was just a that was a that was a taste for that one.

SPEAKER_03: 1:54

Yeah, they they've now said two packages of free chips, but you guys listen, that's it. No more free promos. That's it, no more. I I'll even I'm I'm tired of throwing these. They they say they want to advertise with us, they send us some free stuff, they get the freebie out of us. Now is time you guys gotta pay. That's it. No more free fat fins promos. The other thing, uh well, first off, Matt Gaspers is joining us again. So a little we were supposed to have Matt on, like I think two weeks ago to do like a 2025 year in review. Like, we we've done that for the past like three years with you, right?

SPEAKER_06: 2:30

I didn't make it last year, but yeah, like past couple before that, I think.

SPEAKER_02: 2:34

Yeah, we we would always do like a we were gonna do it early last week and then decided not to, and then we were gonna do it late last week, and then you didn't know if you were gonna be sober, so then we decided to do it today.

SPEAKER_03: 2:46

Well, the other the other pro yeah, so so Matt was supposed to come on last week for the 2025 year in review, and then I was like, Do we do a 2025 year in review? And I feel like we kind of like missed the boat on that. Like, everybody kind of did their years in review already, so um, and we're hoping we might get to the title subject tonight, but like we haven't done a show in two weeks, and there's a lot to catch up on. I had um over the past weekend, over New Year's weekend, my friend Bobby, who came on pilgrimage with me last year, who's now like been on like five different family vacations with me, he came up to visit for the weekend. Then one of our listeners, Jim Pine, was in on Long Island for a wedding on New Year's Day. So the day or yeah, New Year's Day. So then like the day after New Year's Day, we all the three of us went into the city and I took them into Manhattan and we went to um we we basically did uh went to Holy Innocence, St. Pat's, um, St. Vincent Ferrare, the Met. Then we did a little bit of Central Park, and then we went to like um uh ground zero. So we did like a whole tour of the city. While we were at St. Vincent Ferrer, there was a um there was uh a private Latin mass going on in one of the side chapels that we were able to sit in on, and it was a really, really fun day in the city. Um, but while while Bobby was here, Anthony, how many friends named Bobby?

SPEAKER_02: 4:15

Do you have actually just one that he Bobby's just sent a lot of stories?

SPEAKER_03: 4:20

So but while he was here, all right. So so uh to back up a little bit. So on the last episode, sorry, Matt, we will get to you, but I have to say so.

SPEAKER_02: 4:31

We will talk to Matt Casper, as I promise. But we got to get through the 40 Abadi family stories first.

SPEAKER_03: 4:37

So listen, so the last the last episode we did, like I kind of uh I I mentioned the pilgrimage that that we're doing, right? And at the end of the show, we go on to locals, and I like I still hadn't had a priest lined up, and I was considering asking my priest at my parish. I was like, all right, I'll I'll go to I was going to go to um mass on New Year's Day for the obligation. I was gonna just basically bum rush my parish priest after mass. But at the at the like on the switch over to locals on that episode, I kind of threw out there that we didn't have a priest. I was like, hey, if there's a priest watching the show and he says both forms of the mass, like reach out. So a priest reached out to to Rob, sent Rob an email, and basically said, Hey, uh I I he he basically reached out saying he offers both forms and just to reach out if we're interested. So I call him and he's like, uh, first of all, I'm not gonna so I'm not going to announce who the priest is because our show is too controversial, and I don't need somebody like Deacon Jim hounding his bishop and asking him why he's coming. But I'll I'll say this much about him his name's Anthony.

SPEAKER_02: 5:47

I'm not gonna dox him, but here's the name and address it.

SPEAKER_03: 5:51

His name's Anthony, right? I get him on the phone and he's like, Yeah, I got a brother Gino, I got a brother Sal. I'm like, Oh, this is gonna be amazing. This is great. So basically, he saw he saw my YouTube post that just said what we were doing, and then there was a young guy at his parish who's like 25 years old or something, who watches the show and just came into the church three years ago. And father like baptized him and brought him into the church, and the guy watches our show, and he said to the to the priest, he goes, Hey, these guys, are you going to be the the chaplain on their on their pilgrimage? So he reached that's why he reached out. He's like, you know, I was considering it at first, but I thought it might be a little too forward, and then he said that to me, I kind of think it's a time for God. I so I had like a FaceTime call with him the other day, and uh he's like, um I was like, Oh, have you ever been to Italy? I was I went to Italy when I was uh you know senior trip because I was in when I was having like on my senior trip like a week ago.

SPEAKER_02: 6:53

Is Ant's audio miserable for everyone else?

SPEAKER_06: 6:56

It is breaking up a little bit on my end. Yeah, it's bad.

SPEAKER_02: 6:59

Is it really?

SPEAKER_06: 7:00

Oh, that's not good.

SPEAKER_03: 7:01

I can't tell you now it sounds better. It seems better now.

SPEAKER_02: 7:04

Am I just talking too loud into the it sounded quieter and choppy?

SPEAKER_03: 7:10

I think you're good now, though. It's fine now. Okay, so okay, so he he went to Rome when he was 17. A week before he goes, John Paul II dies. So he's 17 years old, he's not taking his face seriously. He goes to Rome a week before he goes, John Paul II dies. While he's in Italy, Pope Benedict is elected. He's like, Italy was ecstatic. He said, and the experience was so profound that it kind of like led to his vocation. That's why he became a priest. So he hasn't been to Rome since then. This was 2005. Um, and he's so he's coming with us. The guy that's actually planning it with us, so I'm like, how are we going to do this? Like, I don't know what the deal is with like saying Latin masses in in Italy, like I have no idea what that's like. So basically, the the guy helping me organize the trip goes, No, no, no. You're going, I'm going to give you a list of churches in each city, and you're going to give me like a choice A, choice B, choice C. 90% of these churches, you're going to have a private chapel, and you're going to be able to do whatever you want. So we're basically going to be able to have daily Latin mass on this pilgrimage. There may be one or two places where we have to have a novice order just because we're not going to cause a problem while we're in Italy. But for the most part, it's going to be like a daily Latin mass pilgrimage while we're in Italy. We're going to have a Latin mass in a in front of the miracle of Lanciano. Like it's going to be an amazing time. So those details will be coming out.

SPEAKER_06: 8:37

Um, and other than that- You guys aren't using uh an agency or something, like you're planning all of it yourselves.

SPEAKER_03: 8:43

No, I I'm using I'm using a guy that's that's like a tour company, but he's like he's done it so many times. Like, because I was gonna reach out to Taylor and like I'm like, because Taylor's taking a pre-serent. I know he's not doing a novus order pilgrimage, you know. So I was gonna reach out to him and just ask him like what the deal is. But the guy that's that's doing it for us, it's it's one guy I'm dealing with. He's like, no, no, no, we'll figure this out, we'll get it all done. So okay, it's uh it yeah, I'm really very much looking forward to it. So when those details are ready, I was hoping to have them tonight, but they're they're not quite ready yet. So hopefully by Thursday night I'll be able to give you guys all the details, whoever's interested in coming. Um what how was your uh how was your uh Christmas, Rob?

SPEAKER_02: 9:23

It was it was good. We finally we're feeling better, and then um anyone who watched the show on the 27th or whatever saw that I was in a hotel. We went to a nearby hotel just to have a little staycation, uh, let the kids swim. So I spent uh 15 hours on a pool that weekend. So how about you, Matt?

SPEAKER_03: 9:45

How was your how was your uh Christmas and New Year's?

SPEAKER_06: 9:48

It was good, it was busy. I mean, with my my new job or not so new, I guess I've been doing it about a year now. It's uh definitely you don't get the the week off like this the nature of this job, everybody's required to work the week before Christmas, the week of Christmas. But I'm actually off this week, so kind of getting caught up on the how has that how has that transition been though?

SPEAKER_03: 10:11

Because you were like you you you basically went from like you were the editor of Catholic family news, and then you were you were trying to like bounce around and like find like a full-time gig in in the Catholic media space, but isn't it kind of a relief leaving it where like I do you do you have a little bit of a sense of a relief leaving it?

SPEAKER_06: 10:30

Or you or I think it's uh yeah, and some it's nice to not have to keep up with every little detail going on and not have to and be able to do it, I guess, for fun and not be dependent on it for my livelihood. I do miss certain aspects of it, but I mean I have my own channel going on now and uh doing reasonably well.

SPEAKER_02: 10:51

So now would be a good chance to plug it because it might not give you another one.

SPEAKER_06: 10:56

It's called it's called Very Tati's Box. If you just search for that or you search for my name on YouTube, I'm sure it'll come up. So yeah, it's been going pretty good.

SPEAKER_03: 11:07

It what's interesting is um since since Leo is elected, uh like a lot of the Catholic media outfits that were like booming during the Francis era are really not doing so well, you know.

SPEAKER_06: 11:20

So maybe maybe it was a blessing in disguise and you got out and well, clearly it was because I mean CFN is no more, as you guys have probably heard. Yeah. Uh so I think I was definitely right to leave when I did, because uh obviously it's not no, I wouldn't have a job if I had stayed, so yeah, it's just uh things are changing so much.

SPEAKER_03: 11:42

Like that's so like we wanted to do a 2025 year in review mainly because of how crazy 2025 was. I mean, we got a new president, Trump came in, we got our new pope, you had uh Charlie Kirk died. I mean, those are just like the the big things that have just come off the top of my head, but there was some the thing is 26 started off with such a bang that you know, yeah, literally, right? Well, that okay, so that let's let's talk. Oh man, should we save that for locals? Yeah, we should probably save that for locals, but so uh well the church mainly though, Leo is starting off 2026 with a consistory, and they're going to be discussing liturgy and things like that. So there's a little bit of a little bit of um excitement about that, hoping that some of these insane restrictions from the Francis era are lifted. You also had the Charlotte Diocese, the priests in the Charlotte Diocese. Uh, 31 of them sent a dubia to Rome. Yeah, no, seriously, right? 2025 was the year of the gym. Like the one the one thing that's been kind of cool about the Venezuela thing is that we haven't had to hear non-stop about how how like um Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes are the most evil people in the world. It's been like a nice little break between Christmas and then kidnapping uh a South American dictator. It's like, man, we haven't we haven't heard about Jews in two weeks. It feels like an eternity.

SPEAKER_02: 13:14

A couple people have tried to somehow make this, you know, the Venezuela thing a Jewish thing, too, but I don't know. It's it's not like Irag.

SPEAKER_03: 13:21

Yeah, it's not Iran, Iran or something. It's a different thing totally. We got like I really do want to discuss Venezuela on the other side though, because Rob and I got into like a little bit of tension yesterday how Anthony tweets. I well, yeah, I think there was misunderstanding, but I I don't like when you counter signaling counter signal me on Twitter, like I don't like it, so I'm like, what's he doing here? Like I was getting I was getting really annoyed yesterday, and I'm like, all right, let's just calm down, let's relax. That's a co-sleeping incident. But um hey Anthony, I'm new to Long Island, so yeah, mass is past Sunday. I've never commented on the channel, but I love what you guys are doing. Wanted to say hello, but not uh never got the chance after. Yeah, if any of you see me after mass, always come over and say hello. Like, I especially if you go to the same church as me. Like, I I want to meet the people at my parish, and I usually stick around. Um, you'll usually see Don and I outside talking for a while. Like, so after Mass, it's usually Don and I will talk either if it's at St. Rocco's or if it's at St. Matthew's. Me and me and Don have the same parish schedule where we hop around a bit. So you'll usually see the two of us out there, and you'll definitely come over and say hello. We like to meet new people, especially Don. Don is such a people person, he really likes when people come over and talk to him. I'm totally kidding about that, by the way. Um, so yeah, the Venezuela thing, like I have so many different thoughts on it. But I my tweet yesterday was more about that ton of stuff. There was 12 of them. Right. So the one that set off originally was I said um for like 60 years, they've been pushing this idea of multicultural democracy on us. They can't. Yeah, okay, we'll do that on locals. All right, so all right, so we'll get back. You're right. That's a that's definitely a better thing to do, especially because it got into some tension between us. Um all right, so let's do the Bishop Barron tweet because that is the show title. We're already 15 minutes in and we haven't gotten there yet.

SPEAKER_02: 15:26

Which we should probably do our uh actual sponsorship first.

SPEAKER_03: 15:34

Literally, we're the worst at this. They hate when you do that. Uh go to recusyncellars.com, use code based at checkout for 10% off. Reckus and sellers is an awesome winery out in um Washington. Washington? Yes. They're in Washington State. They uh ship around the country, they have some amazing wines. You guys miss the boat if you didn't get a bottle for Christmas, but they're Valentine's Day is coming up. Valentine's Day is coming up, but they're also just like a really nice gift to bring to your in-laws if you're going over there. The priest who's coming on pilgrimage with me told me that somebody at his parish who watches the show bought him a bottle of Wreckies and Cellars for Christmas. And he said the wine was amazing. So um, yeah, and uh definitely, definitely check them out. They are uh great supporters of the show. They don't just say they're gonna advertise with us, they actually advertise with us. They're not like the guys at Fat Thins or Knickknacks, like they actually advertise with us. So we love recognition sellers, they've never told us anything we can or can't say. They support pretty much everything they that we do.

SPEAKER_02: 16:39

But I do like the knick-knacks too. I do too.

SPEAKER_03: 16:41

I've I've been so it's New Year's and diet and no smoking has begun. So I'm two days no cigarettes.

SPEAKER_02: 16:49

So and I've never no smoking for New Year's. Every year I've known you.

SPEAKER_03: 16:53

No, I did no smoking after I almost died at my daughter's birthday. Oh, that's right. You passed out. I almost died at my daughter's birthday. No, I man, uh I was just so dehydrated. Uh, and I didn't drink or eat anything all day. This is such an all over the place show, guys. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_02: 17:14

Well, to be fair, sorry.

SPEAKER_03: 17:17

It's our first show back in weeks, but so it was my daughter's birthday, and we were having her sweet 16, and um, I was like prepping the yard all day. I never drank a sip of water, I never ate a stitch of food. The first thing I drink is a beer at like three in the afternoon, and I just drink beer the rest of the night. Like one o'clock in the morning. I'm sitting and I'm arguing with my sister-in-law, like really heated argument with my sister-in-law, because that's what I always do. I always start fights with people. I was like mid-sentence yelling at her about something, and I just went out. Like, totally passed out. They thought I they thought I died. My brother Mikey like smacks me in the face and gets me to wake up, and he and I wake up and I start and he starts walking me towards the house, and I collapsed again, and I passed out again. I would my body was just so spent and dehydrated. I just started like I so then I wake up. My wife is flipping out at this point. Like, she thought I died. And they called an ambulance, and then the cops come and an ambulance comes, and we have to convince them that it was a false alarm and that I'm totally fine. And they it was just a really crazy night. So that night I promised my wife I was gonna quit smoking, which I did. I think like I mean, I quit for for a long time, but maybe you started when you went back to Italy back to Italy. So it was like a year and a half. It was like a year and a half I hadn't smoked. I threw the vape out, I threw cigarettes out, everything. And I went like a year and a half without smoking. I had the straw in my mouth every day, every show. Um, and then I went to Italy, and the evil villain Bobby that came to my house this week and got me smoking. So while he was here, we both agreed we were gonna quit smoking. So I'm on day two, no cigarettes. Going easier than I thought it would. I thought it was gonna be very stressful, but uh they've they've been tolerable.

SPEAKER_02: 19:03

Nothing we mentioned nicknacks, which is nick, yeah, nicotine mints lozenges.

SPEAKER_03: 19:09

They're like nicotine mints, and they said they were going to yeah, they said they were going to advertise with us, but I got my free sample, but still waiting. Um, so where was I?

SPEAKER_04: 19:19

Now what got us on this?

SPEAKER_03: 19:21

Uh Bishop Barron's tweet. So Bishop Barron's tweet. Um let me bring you wanna bring it up, yeah. So okay, so the consistory is happening in uh Rome. I think tomorrow it starts. Oh, today's starting tomorrow. Tomorrow, actually, to the seventh and the eighth. Uh, not a Newport Light, it was a Newport, Patrick. Um, so yeah, so they he called a consistory, which is very different already from Francis, because Francis did not call consistories essentially. He would only call them to elevate a new bishop, but he did not give the cardinals time to get to. Know one another during his entire pontificate. It was like he was purposely trying to keep them apart for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_06: 20:06

Only I mean he did at the very beginning for the synods on the family. I think it was in 2014 actually when Cardinal um what's his name? Cardinal Casper gave his very controversial speech about essentially what led to Amoris Letitia and opening the sacraments to divorced and civilly remarried Catholics, all that stuff. So after that, and I think with all the pushback that that they got uh from all of that, I think that's when Francis put the kibosh on it.

SPEAKER_03: 20:36

So somebody's telling me to try Shan Tex. I tried Shantax years ago, and when I tell you, they give you the most it gives you the most horrific nightmares you can possibly imagine. Like you have nightmares about like murdering your family, and you think it's real, and like you will wake up thinking you killed your family. Like that is how insane. Never ever will I take that stuff ever again. It was the most horrible, horrible nightmares I've ever had.

SPEAKER_06: 21:02

This is something to help you stop smoking, I take it.

SPEAKER_03: 21:04

Yeah, Santax is supposed to help you stop smoking, but like the warnings are like suicidal thoughts and like murderous rage. It's so crazy.

SPEAKER_02: 21:12

I have a feeling if you were on Shantex now, I would get a text every morning. Oh, joked you again in my sleep last night.

SPEAKER_03: 21:18

I cannot, I cannot. Yeah, I would have killed you several times in my dreams, especially FGS. All right, so bring up Baron's feet because Baron's feet was actually pretty good. I saw a lot of people talking about it today. So I understand that one of the topics under consideration at the consistory of cardinals is synodality. I'm speaking as a bishop who is an elected delegate to both grounds of the synod and the synodality, and I think he meant synod on synodality on synodal. Whatever that even means in Rome. And who, I mean, his sentence is more coherent than the actual thing. So in Rome, and who has just presided over a local synod of my own diocese. Synods are good and useful tools for the determination determination of practical pastoral strategies, but they oughtn't, who uses that word, oughtn't to be forums for debate regarding doctrine. When settled teaching becomes a subject for Sonatal determination, the church devolves into relativism and self-doubt, as is clearly evident in the misconceived synodal way in Germany. I'm sympathetic with the founders of the journal Communio, Joseph Ratzinger, von Balthasar, Henry de Lubach, who broke with the journal Concilium, the stated purpose of which was the perpetuation of the spirit of Vatican II. The great Communio theologian said that the councils are indeed sometimes necessary in the life of the church, but that one sides with relief at the end of a council, for the church can then returns to its essential work. As long as it sits in council, the church is in suspense, unsure of itself, wringing its hands. It is precisely the perpetuation of the spirit of Vatican II that led to so much vacillation and drift in the years when I was coming of age. So if we must continue its synodality, let it be dedicated to the consideration of practical means by which the church can more effectively do its work of worshiping God, evangelizing, and serving the poor, and let it not be a defining and permanent feature of the church's life, lest we lose our verve and focus. This is it is interesting because even the proponents of synodality have had it with synodality. Like it's just that you heard Leo say it a few times already, where he's like, Um, I don't I don't understand why people are not focused on Synodality. I just saw comments by uh the bishop in uh Gaza. What's his name? Uh the cardinal pizza bala, pizza bala, cardinal pizzabala almost said it like flippantly, like laughing. Um, Mark Sitzio uh uh talked about about this. It was like he was just like the the people of Europe and their synodality, like it's just irrelevant to us. Like the the people I deal with, they're very traditional. They don't like the the the the Western church is just always in this perpetual state of what can we change? What can we change? Where the people he deals with just it's just alien to them. But I I don't think the that the guys that are pushing for the synodality, like they don't even realize that even the Western church is just we don't care about this stuff anymore.

SPEAKER_06: 24:15

I think Barron, I don't know, I find Barron's tweet kind of ironic considering that he's such a major proponent of Vatican II, and that's really what the synod on synodality at its core was all about. I mean, even one of the delegates said it's a continuation of Vatican II. Um what else is it? Let me see. I don't know. There's one other thing I was gonna say. I also don't I also take issue with his description of what a church council is like. He says, as long as it sits in council, the church is in suspense, unsure of itself, wringing its hands. Maybe that was true at Vatican II, but I don't think that's the case.

SPEAKER_03: 24:53

That's what I was going to say.

SPEAKER_06: 24:54

Yeah, I don't think that's the case for most councils in church history.

SPEAKER_03: 24:58

I think well, maybe Trent, right? Like the like Trent was addressing the Protestant Reformation. There might have been like, I don't know, we don't know because we weren't around for those councils, but they are. I mean, you're usually a council is called to deal with some kind of a heresy, so I can understand that perspective, but you're saying Barron is such a Vatican II guy, but I think Barron is a JP II Vatican II guy, where like the these guys seemed like they were liturgical modernists, um, and even doctrinal modernists, but they thought like the moral law wasn't going to change, you know. Like it's dude, it's very similar to conservative American politics, where it's like, okay, no to gay marriage, uh, homosexuality is sinful. Uh, you know, like there's like a few things that's like, okay, you're against abortion, homosexuality is sinful, and uh you're against gay marriage. And those are like the three pillars of American conservatism and American Catholicism, or Vatican II Catholicism. As long as you keep those three things intact, everything else is pretty much up for grabs. And I think when Francis comes in and he starts playing around with fiduciar supplicants and things like that, that was like a bridge too far for a lot of these guys. But they don't care about the Amazonian liturgy that they were talking about. Like that stuff doesn't bother them nearly as much as just don't play games with same-sex marriage and and you know abortion. Like that's pretty much how I see it.

SPEAKER_06: 26:32

Yeah, it's um it's like they don't understand the connection between dogma and morality. Like you can't you can't go after doctrine and then expect morality to remain intact. Like then, and that's kind of what they're expecting, I guess. That's how I see it.

SPEAKER_03: 26:48

Yeah, I so all right. Well, with Barron, Barron's he's such an interesting guy, man, because he is like the proponent of beige Catholicism, yet he's its big biggest critic. Right. You know, like he'll go on, he'll go on and he'll speak with Jordan Peterson about how the church has, you know, lost its zeal for talking about God's justice and all it talks about is God's mercy, but then he goes and writes a foreword to James Martin's book, Building Bridges and stuff. Like he's he he's he's so unsure of his own, like I think he understands what the problem is, but right.

SPEAKER_06: 27:22

And it I think Hans Erz von Balthazar, if I remember correctly, isn't he the guy who promoted the notion that like universalism eventually everyone no one's gonna end up in hell? Everyone will be saved. I'm pretty sure it was Balthazar.

SPEAKER_02: 27:34

Yeah, he's the dare we hope theologian. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 27:38

Yeah, and Barron's like one of its biggest proponents, like the the dare we hope thesis. Uh, he also, I mean, we could criticize Barron for his conversation with Ben Shapiro and stuff like that, but I do think like synodality has just run its course. And and you what you have is a lot of the older bishops and cardinals remember their youth, and they grew up and they come into the priesthood during the sexual revolution. And during that time, the sexual revolution is happening, and you have the gay rights move movements, and you have all the all these all these things about sexuality happening. And I think that these older bishops think they're talking to the youth by continuing talking about the issues that mattered when they were young, and they have no concept of the fact that all of that has changed. Like, no, none of the youth care about that anymore. Like, it's just completely dropped off our radar. We're sick of talking about Vatican II, we're sick of talking about same-sex marriage and all that stuff. Like all that stuff should just be in the past now. And I think, I think even the younger Catholics coming up, like they just they they kind of just want a like even the Novus Ordo normies, the kids, the young kids that are coming into the church, like they may not be traditionalists, but they want conservative Catholicism.

SPEAKER_02: 28:57

They want the gen the Gen Z, you know, the zoomers at the Novus Ordo are talking about what the church teaches on uh on race and nationalism. Yeah, because they don't care about you know women being ordained as priests and all that.

SPEAKER_03: 29:12

Do you remember the um um do you remember when the USCCB like came out with a statement against Nick Fuentes, but they basically just published a letter that the ADL wrote? Yes, yeah, like that whole thing happened. Like they really have no idea what is happening in the movement of the youth. These guys are so disconnected from what is actually happening on the ground. Like every young Catholic guy I know is talking about the Jewish question, they're talking about race relations, they're talking about immigration in such a different way from the guys at the top. It's almost like they're speaking different languages.

SPEAKER_02: 29:54

Good talk, guys.

SPEAKER_03: 29:55

You guys do know you're all you're part of this show. Like I can't just monologue the whole time, right?

SPEAKER_06: 30:01

I think uh the other thing I had and to come to mind as far as Bishop Barron, I mean he talks about you know the spirit of Vatican II versus the council itself. He says it was the perpetu um what does he say? It was precisely the perpetuation of the spirit of Vatican II that has led uh to so much vacillation and drift in the years when I was coming of age. But I think, I mean, eventually people have to be honest and say the spirit has something to do with the documents. Like that's where where do we think the spirit came from? And the spirit we're talking about is the spirit of revolution. Actually, I was just reading here. Let me uh got it on my little desk over here. Hard in my reach. I hadn't looked at this for many years. This is uh this came out in the year 2000. I don't know if you guys have ever heard to the heard of this before, but it was a joint statement by uh a guy down in I can't remember. He he did in charge of this apostate called Tradition and In Action. I think he's Brazilian. Attila Cinque Guimaraes, I'm sure I butchered that last name. Uh Michael Matt, John Venari, and Marian Therese Horvath, who I think has since passed away. So I've got rest your soul and soul John Venari as well. But um, I mean this was during the JP2 years, the year 2000, and they're talking about we resist you to the face, and they're describing you know why they're putting this out, why they're putting this joint declaration out there.

SPEAKER_03: 31:33

Um what do you think? What do you think what do you think happens with all this stuff? Like, I'm I'm looking at um even these even these uh priests in Charlotte, like do you think these guys face backlash? Like they because they sent a dubia to uh Rome, but they didn't send it to the uh Dicastery for Divine Worship. Like they sent it to the like the Dicastery for theological texts or something like that, which is liturgical. Liturgical texts, right? And it's which is interesting because it's it's uh I mean I got this from Mike Lewis. I read I read Mike Lewis's substack. Um Bishop Popraki, uh a year or two ago, the the feast of the Immaculate Conception fell on a Sunday. And typically what the US bishops do is if a feast falls on a Sunday, they release you from your your holy day of obligation, where it should have been moved to the Monday, especially for a feast like the Immaculate Conception. That's like one of the holiest of holy days for Catholics, right? So if the if the feast day lands on a Sunday, the whole the obligation would move to a Monday. So the US C B puts out a statement saying, hey, the Sunday, you know, the holy day of obligation is um we're gonna we're gonna put it aside. You guys don't have to, you don't have an obligation to attend. So Paproki sent a dubia to this dicastery, and they send back telling him, yes, the obligation has to get moved to Monday. So it sent the US C C B into a tailspin. Half the dioceses in America then follow what that dubia answer is. So like half of them are scrambling and they're like, Oh, you guys have to go to mass on Monday, the ninth. And the other half of the bishops were basically like, We're dispensing you from your obligation, don't worry about it. So then it gets sent to the Dicastery for Divine Worship, where you had um, what's his name? Uh who uh call it Roach Roach Roach, yeah, then universally dispenses everyone of the dispensation for the following year. So like it was this big debacle that and it's and Papraki, and I like I think Papraki did it because he was looking at it like, look, this is this is the Immaculate Conception, like this is this is supposed to be a very big feast day, and it should be moved to the Monday if it falls on a Saturday or Sunday, like whereas you know, other other other holy days of obligation, if they land on Saturday or Sunday, it's like maybe you could dispense the obligation, but not that one. So, but once it goes through the CDW, it's the the USCB gets the authority to basically dispense with the obligation. So now these 31 priests send their dubia to the dicastri for liturgical texts. Now they it the thing is, this this letter, it it's not because a lot of people think it's just altar rails, it's not just altar rails, like Bishop Martins is telling them they can't pray when they vest for mass. Like, there's there's all these weird things that he's like stripping away from them, and they're all beside themselves. Like, does he even have the authority to tell us we can't like pray as we're vesting from there's like all these really strange things? No, he doesn't. So I have a feeling they're going to get something good from the dicastery they sent it from, but that may cause, but maybe that's good because it'll cause a bigger spotlight on this whole issue. And I mean, there's no possible way Martins did what he did with the kneelers without Leo knowing what's going on. Like he's an American cardinal before he becomes Pope. He has to know what's going on.

SPEAKER_06: 35:07

Well, what's so bizarre about it? I mean, if you want to get technical, I mean, as I recall, there was a document released when Cardinal Francis Arenze was the prefect for the Congregation for Divine Worship back in the early 2000s called Sacramentum Redemptionis Sacramentum, something like that. And that that explicitly states that every Catholic has the right to receive Holy Communion either standing or kneeling according to his own preference.

SPEAKER_03: 35:36

So, I mean, that's still the law of the church, as far as I know. But it's still the law in Charlotte, like you can still kneel for communion in Charlotte. That that's that's that's not what the issue is. Like, if you still want to go up and just wants to make it as uncomfortable as possible, and what's crazy is if you read his letter, the the letter that he wrote. So basically, what was happening is a lot of priests were bringing out portable kneelers for older for older lay people who could had a difficulty kneeling on the ground because people were coming up and kneeling for communion on the ground, and there were older people who wanted to kneel for communion, and he's like, they can't they can't even stand up, like people have to help them get up. It was difficult for them. So he put like a portable kneeler in to assist the the elderly, and Martin's banned those, and it's like what a cruel thing to do to these older people. And his reasoning is if you put this in, people will feel pressured to kneel for communion.

SPEAKER_04: 36:38

We just we just had Rob.

SPEAKER_03: 36:41

Do you have the um can you find the clip I posted of Jonathan Roomy? Probably find the find look up Jonathan Roomy on my Twitter and see if we can pull that clip up. So Jonathan Roomy was talking with Father Mike Schmidt a a week or two ago, and he talks about how he is going to um like he he feels this, he feels this um uh the the Holy Spirit like calling him to show more reverence, and he goes to kneel for communion, uh, and he goes to a priest, and the priest makes him stand up, and the guy and he's so confused. I'll let him tell the story. But the irony of this whole thing, uh, you have it. Let's play the clip of him because I I I have thoughts on this, and we didn't do a show afterward, and I was like, I really did want to discuss this.

SPEAKER_00: 37:27

Yeah, I mean, even in the last year, I started feeling, I'll use the word again, convicted to to give more reverence to Christ in his formal in the Eucharist. And I started receiving on my knees and on the tongue, which I hadn't before. I just kept feeling the Holy Spirit just like no, you should you should do that. And it was it was a little just kind of disorienting at first. I'm like, oh okay. And and so I went to a church and I received on my knees and the priest wanted me to get up. And I was like, I waited for a second and then I got up, and then I uh I finished mass and I left and I had a conversation with my spiritual director about it. I'm like, is that can they can the most is that permissible? He's like that probably wasn't the best thing for him to do. He wouldn't, he shouldn't do that. And so but it happens and everybody's got their and and um their way. And I I I talked to to him afterwards, and I said, let me ask you, can I why why did you make me stand up? He's like, Well, if I you know, if I if I allowed you to do that, then anybody can just do whatever they want. And I said, Yeah, but it's the isn't it the more reverential form to receive? He's like, Yes, but we have to we have to do things a certain way. I said, Okay. So, so yeah, so I left and then I talked to my spiritual director. And I was that I will I I then was now reinvested and I doubled down. I was a little nervous going to other places. I'm like, what if that happens again? Right. And then people know who I am, and then it's just like I, you know, the unknown is the is a source of anxiety, even going to mass for me, just like I don't know what's gonna happen or who's gonna come up to me. So, but but I I doubled down on it, and now I'm prepared to just wait as long as I need to until somebody concedes because I'm not going anywhere. Yeah, so it is your right as a Catholic, it's your right to receive on your knees, on the tongue as a Catholic.

SPEAKER_03: 39:40

So that's it. Did I fix the did I fix my mic? Does my mic sound better now?

SPEAKER_02: 39:46

I didn't notice anything wrong with your mic.

SPEAKER_03: 39:48

I had I think I was using the the like the headphone mic, not not my actual mic. Um, because people were saying there's noise in the background. So okay, so the the the crazy thing about that clip is When I posted that, people below that tweet, and all I did, I didn't even post context. I just said, um, Jonathan Rooney uh you know just describes a situation where a priest denied.

SPEAKER_02: 40:12

Jonathan Roomy tells Father Mike that he was recently denied communion because he tried to kneel and receive on the tongue. That's all you said.

SPEAKER_03: 40:19

Yeah, so I don't actually put my own commentary on it, right? And people below that are saying, why do you people need to virtue signal publicly the mass isn't the place to put on put on a show like this? People who don't kneel for communion, when they see someone who goes up and kneels for communion, in their eyes, that person is just doing it out of pride. When it's like the total inverse. Like for Jonathan Rooney to go up, now he's a he's a famous guy, he's you know, Jesus from the chosen. For him to go up and kneel for communion in and make a spectacle of himself when he really probably doesn't want to be noticed, like he probably doesn't actually want anybody to notice him. Like it probably took like tremendous courage for him to go up, kneel, and receive on the tongue. Because I know the first few times I did it at the Novus Ordo, it took a lot of courage, and like it finally got to a point when I when I was still going, like I would just do it and I didn't care anymore. But those first few times, especially, you're incredibly nervous, you don't want to draw attention to you, yourself, you're terrified that you're going to get denied communion. I was denied communion, I think, three or four times during COVID. Like during COVID, I tried I tried going and receiving communion three or four times, and they've denied me communion on the tongue. So it the the people who who see that think that you're virtue signaling when it's the total inverse. And the people are really like, I don't, I don't want to make a spectacle of myself. I'm doing this because I feel like it's the only way I can show reverence in this horrific liturgy that I'm forced to attend, right? And it's just funny how people actually have the opposite in mind. So now Bishop Martins, these people are going up, these are older people who could barely kneel to begin with. The priest, out of mercy, puts in a temporary kneeler so that it's easier for them to get up and down. And Martins in his letter says, We're going to, we're not going to allow it because some people may think they are obligated to kneel if they see that kneeler there. And that's his reasoning for it. So now these older people are going to kneel, possibly break a hip or a knee, or not be able to get up, make a total spectacle of themselves. And his reasoning is it may it may make other people think that they should kneel, and that's just not the norm.

SPEAKER_06: 42:38

Yeah, I have his letter pulled up right now. It is he's saying according to liturgical norms, regional episcopal conferences are entrusted with establishing more precise norms for the reception of Holy Communion. Goes on about the USCCB, blah, blah, blah. Um but he does reference what I had the document I was saying, Redemption of Sacramentum. He says the normative posture for all the faithful in the United States is standing according to the USCCB, uh, regardless, you know, not taking into account Catholic tradition at all. It is nonetheless the free choice of an individual member of the faithful to kneel, and communion cannot be denied this individual solely based on their posture. But then you must go on to say, yeah, here he down further and saying the use of altar rails, kneelers, and pre-dues are not to be utilized for the reception of communion in public celebrations by January 16th. So weird. So demolition.

SPEAKER_02: 43:43

No, it's not your microphone.

SPEAKER_03: 43:47

I'm not sure. But the people are still hearing this background noise. I think it's Matt. Is it me? Yeah. I was gonna tell you, you gotta get a better mic. I do need to do that.

SPEAKER_06: 44:03

Which is ironic. I can't what's really weird, I can't hear myself through my own headphones, and usually I can. I don't know what's going on with that.

SPEAKER_03: 44:11

But it sounds like you're on your computer mic and not your not your headphone mic, that's why.

SPEAKER_06: 44:17

Oh, maybe check your output.

SPEAKER_03: 44:19

Like it does so it does sound like you're on your computer mic.

SPEAKER_06: 44:22

Weird. Maybe that is the problem. All right, I'll see what I can fight figure out.

SPEAKER_03: 44:25

Yeah, so the the the whole point is that these guys. I actually have a decent mic now because Rob made me get one.

SPEAKER_02: 44:33

Um that's my that's the mic I used to have.

SPEAKER_03: 44:35

Is that so the the sociopathy of these guys? It's the same thing with um with that, with the I think it was was it uh was it Kansas, Kansas or something? The guy that the the the bishop just basically said, uh we've been told by the Dicastery for Divine Worship that we have to implement the Latin novus ordo. Like he was never actually told that. He never even sent in another request to extend the Latin mass privilege, and it basically just he just let it die and and and they sent him permission to say the Latin Novus Ordo. Um I am curious to see how all this pans out because I don't even know what's going on with the trad movement anymore. Like everything seems so disjointed.

SPEAKER_02: 45:21

I was gonna say, is there even really one single trad movement?

SPEAKER_03: 45:24

Everything seems so disjointed where they're like there was there was like actual it felt like there was felt like there was uh momentum under Francis, but now that like we've lost that that that you know like that point of of anger where we're not all it's kind of like if you have if you're fighting with your wife, there's nothing better for your relationship when you than when you both hate the same person. Like if you go, if you go and like if your wife's having a problem with somebody, she's like, I can't say you're like, Yeah, I can't stand that one either. Like, all of a sudden, you and your wife, no matter what you're fighting about, goes away, and you and your wife are best friends again because you hate that one person. That was what Francis was for us. He was he was sadly, yes. There you go, Matt. You sound much better. Okay, uh much better. So, yeah, that is what Francis was. He was this this common, like uh, just every the the villain he was the great unifier, he was the great unifier. It was like when all all the all the Catholic content creators hated Michael Lofton, right? So it was like back back then, you could have or Michael Voris. What's the deal with all the Michaels? Uh Trads like conservatives after Charlie Kirk firing squad faced each other. Yeah, it kind of did.

SPEAKER_06: 46:38

It's man, although I will say at this point, uh you know, we're over what we're like seven or eight months into the Leo pontificate. I think the honeymoon phase has definitely worn off for most people, like most people who were um cheerleading for him at the beginning, like you know, of a conservative or traditional mindset. I think a lot of them have backed down quite a bit on that and are a little more reserved. I mean, at least that's kind of what I've seen.

SPEAKER_03: 47:07

It's I mean, what I'm watching is um like where there would have been like a unified front before. Now I'm watching the like the circular firing squad is happening, right? So I mean you were on you were on with us uh for an episode of that recently, Matt, when it was like we were you you have basically like the the the guys who lean more Cedivacantist basically talking about trading and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. I I don't know what I don't know what happens with all of this stuff. Like I feel like Catholic content is so I mean you have you have like the normie guys who are still doing the like five arguments that totally destroyed Protestantism. Like you have to always have those guys, you know, those guys are always going to exist, but the guys who are actually creating like original content and like coming in and having conversations and stuff, that that landscape just seems totally dead. I mean, there's a couple of guys left doing it, um, and there's some new guys popping up that are interesting. Um, but it it doesn't seem like there's anybody working together anymore. Like I don't think you're gonna have some big trad conference where everybody comes together and stuff. It's it's I don't know, man. So what do you mean by the honeymoon phase is over? Like, what do you think is settling in?

SPEAKER_06: 48:34

Um well, I think like the boundless optimism is gone. Like, even from people that I consider friends, like you know, like I think Catholic unscripted was like Mark over there was pretty pro, like very excited about Leo, and and Dr. Kwasnevsky seemed to be that way at the at the beginning as well. And there's there are others, but uh that seemed they seem to have quieted down in that regard and are willing to you know critique when necessary. And I think the critiques are going to become more and more frequent and more necessary. I mean, for me, Leo has been concerning since day three, basically. What the for when I heard him say that uh he wants the cardinals and basically the whole church to be completely committed to the path that the church has been on since Vatican II, that was really it for me.

SPEAKER_03: 49:24

Um I I don't I don't I don't know, man. Like I I feel like Leo's exactly who I thought he would be.

SPEAKER_02: 49:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 49:30

Um I wasn't I wasn't surprised for him to say that. I'm just saying, like, I was I was willing to be optimistic maybe on like day one and day two, but after I after I heard that, that pretty much told me everything that he did.

SPEAKER_03: 49:46

I'll tell you, like, it was like the stages of grief for me. It was kind of like I went through like stages of grief because when he first got elected, like there was like this tiny bit of hope that he chose the name Leo, but I had Tim Gordon on, and Tim Gordon was just like, Okay, this guy's from Chicago, he's friends with Supage, he's a protege of Bernadette. Like, he went through all this stuff, and I was just like, Whoa, we got Francis 2. And then I went, Nah, I don't I don't think anybody could be Francis 2. Like, I just don't think anybody like Francis was just so unlikable. I don't I don't think you could recreate Francis, like he's just was really unlikable. And Leo just doesn't have that kind of temperament, and you kind of figured that one out within a couple of days. So, within by day three, I was actually having the opposite reaction where I was like, okay, I I think the hostility towards towards the papacy needs to end. Like, and it wasn't out of like what Taylor did, like where Taylor was like, I, you know, he he gave he he gave his whole like I'm a you know, I'm a obedient son of Pope Leo or whatever, right? It wasn't so much that as um just feeling like Catholics shouldn't have this oppositional like posture towards the Pope. Like it's not it's not good for a Catholic to have that oppositional posture towards the Pope, even if you have those feelings towards him, and even if you're really like if he's not being as aggressive and ruthless as Francis was, we need to just chill out, you know.

SPEAKER_06: 51:24

So there was yeah, and I guess I should clarify like somebody saying in the chat, somebody recently said something like uh what did he say, boundless optimism is one thing, but if you don't think he's even a slight improvement, you may be a hater. Yeah, obviously, I don't think he's at like personality-wise and temperament-wise, the way he he carries himself, obviously an improvement from Francis, but I still maintain I don't doctrinally there's simply not much there's not a substantial difference between Francis and Leo, not from what I've seen. Um there's certainly a difference in aesthetics, but I don't when you get I mean Leo has on multiple occasions, as we all know, praised Francis, you know, claims that he's already in heaven looking down, praying for us, all that kind of stuff. But then also getting into the Vatican II stuff, uh like I said, on day three, he in his first formal, and I think he's probably gonna bring up Vatican II. I'll be surprised if he doesn't bring up the council during the consistory and and anchor it all in obedience to the council.

SPEAKER_03: 52:26

I mean, but what do you expect?

SPEAKER_02: 52:28

Like, there wasn't everything we're never gonna elect anyone.

SPEAKER_03: 52:33

He would be doing this. Exactly.

SPEAKER_06: 52:35

And I'm not saying any of this that I'm gonna be surprised about it, but that's where like we sh I'm not willing to be a cheerleader for someone who's pushing the clear revolution, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03: 52:46

Yeah, but that's but that's kind of my point. Like, I I I all right, I I have just over the especially over the past month or so, have just come to the point where um I go back and I and I think about things that Padre Pio said, and I think about things that some of the saints said, where it's like you like you criticize the hierarchy at your own peril because you are now putting yourself in judgment of the hierarchy, and it's like like when you put yourself in that position, you are going to be held to such a higher standard. So I'm just like, I'm just like we all know what what's going on, like we know what is happening, like we know it's not uh it's so I'm not ever going to praise the stuff they do, I'm not going to be, you know, Leo's a based pope or anything. I'm just going to ignore it. And I'm just, but it it is, it will be interesting to watch what happens with this consistory. It will be interesting to watch what happens with that dubia that's sent to Rome. These are things that are very that are always things that you have to keep an eye on, right? Because even the guys who say they're set of a contest, they're watching this stuff too. Like all everybody who who like kind of like and anybody who will criticize me for for my position on on like not saying Leo's like because I think Leo is the Pope, right? So like the guys who will criticize me for taking that position, they're just as interested in what's happening in Rome as I am. Because I don't care if if like if they're if they are correct in their position, it doesn't matter because the world thinks he's the Pope. And what the Bishop of Rome does matter. Like whatever Rome does matters to the world. Same thing with the Orthodox. The Orthodox are all paying attention to this stuff too, because the whole world knows what happens in Rome matters. So you, you know, a lot of guys will make it like I don't really care what happens in Rome because it's no, you it matters very much to all of us. So yeah, we're gonna watch things like this consistory and we're gonna watch things like that dubia because we want to see what life is going to be like for your everyday Catholic over the course of this papacy. Because it's the the fact is most of us are left with whatever options are in our diocese, right? And what Leo does in this papacy is going to make or break like what your Catholic living looks like. So I have kids that I'm trying to bring up as Catholic. There's days where my kids have something to do and they don't want to drive all the way to go to the Latin mass because it's an hour and 20 minutes away, so they they're stuck going to some crummy novus order. So if something good comes out of that consistory, that could affect my kids' daily life as a Catholic. So I'm very interested in this stuff. Right, right.

SPEAKER_06: 55:30

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. I mean, I've been reading Diane Montagna's Substack, she's been releasing some good stuff the last couple days, and apparently there's some sort of uh a letter was sent by one of the heads of the former Ecclesia Day communities, St. Vincent Ferrer, I think, fraternity of St. Vincent Ferrer, and uh basically addressing all the cardinals who are going to attend the consistory and presenting an idea that in order to resolve you know the situation with Traditionus Custodis and get wider access to the traditional mass, essentially he's proposing um that the you know maybe the cardinals could present this idea to the Pope or something like that, that that the Pope create a um non-territorial ecclesiastical jurisdiction, like something the equivalent of uh like a military diocese that's not territorial, but it's you know it overlaps with existing dioceses, something like that.

SPEAKER_03: 56:30

Isn't yeah, so wasn't that what ecclesia day was supposed to be, though?

SPEAKER_06: 56:35

Uh not exactly because I mean what's envisioned as I understand it in this letter is that there would be bishops, like men who priests, in other words, who belong to the former Ecclesia Day communities would be candidates to be bishops to oversee this ordinariate thing.

SPEAKER_02: 56:54

They would have they would have j jurisdiction just like a territorial diocese would, but they wouldn't be territorially based.

SPEAKER_06: 57:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 57:03

Yeah, so it basically like an Anglican ordinariate, though, would that essentially be it?

SPEAKER_06: 57:08

Something like that, yeah, where it's not it's not based on territory, but it's based on you know people voluntarily belonging to this juris this ecclesiastical jurisdiction.

SPEAKER_03: 57:17

The one interesting thing that Francis did, which I think is actually correct in Traditiones Costodas, was that he called it a by-ritual, like he said because uh I don't like that we're talking about the extraordinary form and the ordinary form, right? But it's not a legal fiction, it's a different right, like it's I'm sorry, but there is no way you could call the novus or the Roman Rite, like it's just not the Roman Rite is the traditional liturgy that was organically developed over the centuries, and the novus order is was basically a new right that they invented.

SPEAKER_06: 57:50

Yeah, like that's I mean elements of the all the six used the term new right, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 57:55

I mean it has elements of the Roman Rite, but the Roman right, the the extraordinary. I saw a couple that's great. That's actually kind of funny. The the um so so I do like the idea of it being a different right, like like we have you know, you have the Byzantines, and you have like I think that the the traditional liturgy is a different right than the novus ordo. Now, the the problem is it does kind of ghettoize Latin mass goers even more, and it also still I think like the local bishop would still have like jurisdiction to not allow them in or something like that. Like, I don't you know that would be the whole point of this. Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't really solve anything. Like, would they need chapels with it or would they have parish churches? I don't know, I don't know. I mean we'll have to see. So here's what the I don't I don't think this this idea will be even taken seriously there.

SPEAKER_06: 58:53

Probably not. This priest, I'm not gonna he's a French priest, I don't Father Louis Marie. I'm not gonna attempt his last name because I'll butcher it, but he says in this letter the creation of dedicated ecclesiastical jurisdictions would move matters forward towards stability, peace, and unity, given its specificity and the experience of its history over several decades. And from this um from the standpoint of sound pastoral practice, it would be natural for this group to be under the authority of pastored pastors vested with the episcopal character, and for these bishops to come from the groups they are called to lead. In other words, trad bishops, which is what we've been at, which is what the whole goal has been since St. Play, you know, the society of St. Players the X and Lefebvre.

SPEAKER_03: 59:39

I can't I kind of get what he's saying, though. He's like, look, there's the like because they're trying to make it like trads are schismatic, right? But what he's getting at is no, we're we're talking about a group of people who want to practice the faith in a in a form that is more closely aligned with the the form. It had before the council, but they still want to be in communion with Rome. Like they don't want to be schismatic. They don't want to be forced into a in a canonically irregular situation.

SPEAKER_06: 1:00:10

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:10

Like we don't, we don't want that. We want to be able to, just like a Byzantine Catholic, go, no, I'm Catholic, I'm Byzantine, but you get to escape the novus order. You're freaking Mexican. You go to a Byzantine church and you get to say you're Catholic. Like I want to go to a Latin mass and say I'm Catholic. Like I don't, I don't want to have this opposition towards the hierarchy. I want I want to be in communion with Rome. I want to be in communion with other Catholics. I just don't want to attend your crummy, gay liturgy that you've forced upon us. Like that's honestly what it comes down to. I like I I understand like the catechism stays the same. Like we all believe the same thing, but I don't want to attend a liturgy where there's girls running around the sanctuary.

SPEAKER_06: 1:00:47

But that I mean, that's the real question, I guess, right there is do we all believe the same thing?

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:54

I'm willing to, I'm willing to, I'm willing to um I'm willing to uh overlook the absurdities of what they'll be doing in the Novus Ordo for the sake of I know I know that I'm gonna get killed for this, but like I know I know it's not real unity if it's not unity in doctrine. I know that. I don't know. I don't have an answer. I'm not even gonna so here I don't want to want I don't want to be outside the bounds of the Catholic Church. I don't, I don't want to be outside the bounds of the Catholic Church. I want to be inside the bounds of the Catholic Church. I want to practice the Catholic faith. Like, is that so freaking hard? Is that really that hard? I don't get why they won't let me be Catholic. So here's what this is wanna be Catholic, you assholes.

SPEAKER_06: 1:01:39

This is what the priest says in his letter. Uh, for priests and faithful who would enroll in these jurisdictions, so it obviously would be voluntary. This would foster outside the tensions of a contentious situation and drum roll, please, acceptance of Vatican II. There it is, right there.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:59

In accordance anymore, though, like, really, what does that even mean anymore?

SPEAKER_06: 1:02:04

It means, I mean, what I personally, what I think it means is that I accept Vatican II, and as much as Vatican II reiterated the faith of all time, come on, but I don't expect that. What they want you to accept is the novelties that contradict the faith. That's the problem. But like, like, look, I if you're telling me I have to like oh man, they want you to accept that I mean I can't believe it's humanism, they want you to accept religious liberty, which I was just reading today. Henry Sire completely torches that in his book Phoenix from the Ashes.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:39

I hadn't read that for a while either. Like, does that mean I'm not allowed to make fun of their stupid gatherings with the Hindus and stuff in Rome? Like, is that what it means? Like, I have to accept that stuff because that's part of it.

SPEAKER_06: 1:02:53

I mean, I and that and Leo just celebrated Nostre Tate last October, 60th anniversary.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:00

I feel like um like I don't know, I don't know, like I'm not well read enough on the religious liberty stuff to like to actually argue against it, but like the Nostretate stuff. I mean, I'm a high school dropout, and when I read that, I'm just like the red flags go off on it. I'm just like, what are we doing here? Like, what are we doing here? I don't understand. Like, what what what what what is this soupy language that you're using? Why is our posture towards Jews changed? Like, I cannot I cannot read those things and separate them from the events of World War II and the Holocaust narrative. Like, I just can't. And you know, I I don't know. So and all of that will actually lead us over towards locals, which we're gonna go do now because I put out a tweet talking about the like the the post-war consensus, basically saying how over 60 years they convinced us to open our borders, they weaponized Christian empathy and convinced us to treat others as you want to be treated, to love your enemy. We allowed foreigners in, they've completely overtaken our country at this point, and now it feels like they are using the natural tensions between Muslims and Christians, which there are very real tensions between Muslims and Christians. We poured a crusade over the holy land against these people, but that natural tension that's already there, it feels like crusades, but yeah. Well, you know what I mean. You know what I'm getting at. Like, there's like Islam has always been a chastisement from God. And now that they are in our borders, it feels like they are just provoking that enmity that's between Muslims and Christians, and that and that is what I think that's what kind of set off the thing with me and Rob because I talked about psyops, and Rob was like, you can't just say that's a psyops. So we'll get into that a little bit, and I'll try to explain myself better because I know when Rob and I talk, it always ends up better than when we tweet and we text. There you go. So we'll get into some of the tensions there. I want to talk about Venezuela because that also caused another uh little miscommunication between us, where I think Rob thought I was saying something I wasn't. Um, I'm also I'm curious to hear Rob's thoughts on the geopolitical situation over there because he knows a little bit more about this stuff than I do, uh, especially with the Greenland stuff. Yeah. We were talking about somebody said today I tweeted out, I was like, uh it's the language barrier. It's definitely a language barrier. Uh I tweeted out therapy is gay. Go to confession, be a man and go to confession. And somebody said, Yeah, therapy is gay. Just go start a podcast and pour your soul out on a podcast. It's like actually part of what I did. And like, damn, that hurt a little. Honestly, it's it's kind of like the the the tweet somebody said about me the other day. They were like, uh, don't take this guy too seriously. Um, no, honestly, Molly, like I was I was on the verge of like exploding yesterday. I'm like, what why is he doing this publicly? Like, if you want something to say to me, say it probably. Why are you doing this publicly? Because you say you say this, you say the crap pop up publicly. What do you want me to do? Okay, here's the funny thing about Rob though. He knows a like 99% of the time I'm saying something to provoke or like to troll, and he's still he's still like like he still goes print. I'm like, dude, where's the but for I'll tell you what I'm really doing in those tweets, though, Rob. Um uh I'm kind of laying out thoughts so that I don't forget them, and I'm like kind of working them out.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:46

Yeah, I'm basically a stream of consciousness of a thought. You're not actually trying to get to a point, you don't have a point, you're just you're tweeting whatever is literally in your brain at that exact moment.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:55

At that moment, because I don't want to forget it, and I'm like, all right, I know I could go back to this if I just and and it leads to like a deeper thing, and then I and I like working it out on air with you because sometimes you tell me I'm batshit crazy, and sometimes uh I guess I guess we know who Don. Don I can't believe Rob caved before Don. Uh, Matt is like the kid that watching mom and dad fight again.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:22

Yeah, like Kennedy was that one night.

unknown: 1:07:26

Poor Kennedy.

SPEAKER_03: 1:07:28

Uh my boat's fixed. I don't have to farm money for my boat anymore. My boat's fixed, it's paid off, everything's done. Uh, who needs an internal monologue where you can just post tweets on that? So that's what we'll do. We'll go through that tweet. We'll we'll go through what Rob took issue with. Um, I'll try to explain it better. And it was more because I was trying to get a thought out because like I had a rant that I wanted to go on with it. I was I was almost considering doing like a video from the truck, uh, you know, a truck video kind of thing on it. And I and then Rob started fighting with me, it threw me completely off my game, and I just was frustrated. I was I was successful then. You blew my truck video. So all right, so we're gonna go over to we're gonna go over to locals. I want to hear Matt's thoughts on Venezuela as well, because this is this is weird. Like, I don't know, I don't know what my position is on it. So all right, we'll hop over there. Everybody, if you're not a locals member, that's where we actually get into uh good stuff and not church politics. Usually, usually we just tell personal stories or fight or gossip. Don't tell anybody what happens on locals stays on locals. And uh yeah, go subscribe to what is it, Matt? Veritatis.

SPEAKER_06: 1:08:32

Veritatis vox. It's based on uh our Lord's words to Pontius Pilate in John 1837, that uh he came for this I was born, for this I came into the world to test give testimony to the truth, and those who are of the truth hear my voice. So, voice of truth, Veritatis Vox.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:51

Yeah, we gotta talk to you, Trads, about about marketing and uh branding. No, you want to know something? Rob, what was oh I had like I was you know what my original name for this channel was gonna be? Pelican Plus?

SPEAKER_05: 1:09:13

I'm not gonna stop that guy. I don't know what to tell you.

SPEAKER_06: 1:09:17

That's the clip for tonight, right there.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:23

He's kinda robbed to burn bridges for us.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:30

Once they reach the point of not caring. Oh, wait, we're not a local yet, are we?

SPEAKER_06: 1:09:41

Hey, you just pulled an Anthony, you spoke without thinking first.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:45

Oh no, he doesn't think he's very calculated, Rob. He doesn't do anything without thinking, believe me. The original name of the channel was going to be V2 Ortocyclorum, the old world order. Uh and I'm like emailed set up under. I set the email up for it and everything, and I was like, that sucks. Like, first off, nobody's gonna search that out, nobody's gonna, it's not catching. You can't piss off Protestants with that by saying I do like avoiding Babylon.

SPEAKER_06: 1:10:16

That's that is a cool name.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:18

Avoiding Babylon came to me. I mean, I I kind of explained it, but it was through from listening to like a talk about the Danielic mystery from Scott Hahn, and they were just talking about like mystery Babylon coming and how like like Babylon will return at the apocalypse. And I was just like, Yeah, we gotta avoid Babylon, man. Like, whatever we gotta do, we gotta avoid Babylon. I just kind of stuck and I like it. So um, all right, so we're gonna go over to locals. I think that's thouke. I I think I think it's thuc, right? Like I always pronounce it wrong, they don't like it. So uh yeah, that's probably Tommy. You don't have to ban him yet. He hasn't he hasn't crossed any boundaries, but if he's banned, he said oh he said carbongos. That's how he gave it away. All right, we're gonna go over to locals. Join us over there, guys. We'll talk.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:02

Uh what video do I want to play?

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:03

What video do I want to play?

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:04

Hold on, hold on. Why is this why is it not working? What is going on? No video, we're just killing the streams. We're just gonna kill the streams. It's not working. Why is scrolling suddenly not working? Oh boy, you need me to kill him? No, no, no, it's working. I mean the killing is it is working, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:31

Um I want to pull my tweet up. Um okay, we're just on locals. I want to okay, so here it was. Um okay, so they spent uh I wrote they spent 70 years convincing Americans to open its borders to Muslims, then they weaponized the Christian impulse to treat others how you want to be treated treated against us. Now they'll pro now they'll provoke enmity between the two cultures because the house divided cannot stand, divide, conquer, then bring order out of the chaos. We will all fall for this manipulation. So when did you tweet this? Yesterday. So it what it came to me because I was watching the Somalian stuff and uh in Minnesota, and Rob's in Minnesota. So I'm watching that stuff happen, and I'm like, this stuff's been going on for a decade, right, Rob? It's like it's been happening for like a decade, the the fraud there.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:30

I mean, for yeah, for sure. For sure, at least a decade.

SPEAKER_03: 1:12:35

Like, like it's this this whole system that they're doing over there. They're basically just pumping these federal funds into there for these programs. They they go and they set up a daycare that they're getting two, three million a year to provide care for 70, 80 children, and nobody even goes to them. They have uh hospital care centers where people are supposed to be bringing the elderly to the hospital, they have all these vans set up and the vans just sit there parked, but they're collecting all this money.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:00

Is this they have restaurants saying they feed 4,000 kids a day, they feed 50 people a month.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:06

It's just this whole system of fraud going on. There have been people who tried to break this story years ago and it just went nowhere. And it it what what I was watching in the videos, uh, the manipulation I wasn't so because what you what I'm seeing a lot of is Christians getting angry that there's all these Muslims here now, right? Rightfully so. Like we let all these freaking Muslims flood our country, but it seemed like while the flooding was going on, we weren't even allowed to talk about it. Like this this whole issue just started coming up in the last couple of years that were like races really race, Islam, the Jews, all this stuff has really come to prominence in the last two years, especially. Trump kind of broke that conversation with build the wall, but even when he was talking about build the wall, like I don't think I was as conscious of like our country really being taken over by foreigners and stuff. But then in the past two years, watching the whole thing with Indians flooding the country, especially like the Diwali celebrations, then you have the the Muslims all over, and I'm watching what's happening in Minnesota, and I'm seeing Christians getting very angry. There was this one Christian group that went there and they were like actually protesting, and you're seeing Christians starting to get angry, like we're all this talk of Christian nationalism. Like, why are we letting non-Christians even play a role in government right now? This conversation has really come to the surface. Is everything Nick Fuentes is talking about? Is Joel Webin's talking about it? Taylor Marshall just wrote a book, um, Christian Patriot, all of this stuff. We're trying to figure out like what does a Christian nation look like? And now we have these Muslims here, right? And through this whole fraud story, what I am seeing is anybody else that's going there to talk to these people, the Muslims aren't talking about it in a way where it's like trying to defend the fraud. They are coming at it going, you hate Muslims, you're trying to put us in internment camps. And and they're perceiving it as like this holy war. Like they're seeing it as Christians trying to trying to kill Muslims.

SPEAKER_06: 1:15:15

Well, I think it's more like they're gaslighting us when they're the ones who really hold to that ideology.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:21

Right, right. It's it's taquia is what it is.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:25

Yeah, yeah, they come in, they they they they get a big like as they as they get bigger, they start to take positions of government. And while they're in a Christian nation, they act like they're just oh, we're just pals, we're just pals. But as soon as they have the power, they come in and they uh enforce their sharia law, whatever they can, right? Right. But but the way the narrative is being handled is what is making me feel like we're like like the Nick, the Nick Sword, or was it Nick Sword or Nick Shirley? Nick Shirley's Nick Shirley's story, the way that thing exploded felt inorganic to me. This is a kid who had like a thousand Twitter followers, he went and did a like it was a 40-minute long video. It wasn't like you know, people's attention span sucks these days, and out of nowhere, this thing got a hundred million views, and it's it's like out of like and Elon buying Twitter and him coming in and seeming like the savior figure who bought Twitter and allowed free speech to happen again, and it just seems like the whole thing is freaking orchestrated to get us to go to war with one another, like in some form or fashion. And my my my worry is because we're a lot of us are like, We're we're Americans, like we got guns, we don't care. You want to come at us, like come at us. Well, you're not gonna win that war in America, but you're not really gonna be fighting the Muslims, you're gonna be fighting the Intel agency that's propping up this artifact.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:52

So, why do you think the Intel agencies want to provoke civil war in the US?

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:58

So, Rob, this goes back to everything. Remember when we were talking about immigration in the first place? And I'm like, because the narrative was always, oh, they're opening the borders to get democratic votes. And I'm like, that that just doesn't make sense to me. Like, that no way is that what this is really about. What this is really about is disintegrating our culture, it's it's to degrade American culture, right? It the whole thing is uh is that so they bring these foreigners in so that you don't even know your neighbor anymore. There's nothing to unify us anymore. And it's it was the reason this came to me is because it's conversations we've had on this show that just all kind of seem to be like clicking into place for me. And I'm like, oh my goodness, we've been wondering, like, what is this, right? We've talked about it where it's like Americans don't actually have a culture anymore. There's not even never did no. There was there look like like we talked, like after 9-11, like you had you had unit, you know, it was like a nostalgic unity of it that's an anti-culture, yeah, yeah, for sure. But there was still stuff that felt like you were you had something in common with your neighbor. So, like when World War II came about, Americans rallied around the flood, right? When when when Pearl Harbor is bombed, everybody wants to fight for their country and they have this patriotic view. But what they did with this immigration is flood it to the point where you have absolutely nothing in common with anybody anymore. Your neighbors are Muslims or they're whatever, they don't speak the same language as you, they don't have the same there is an American culture. It's you know, like it's very Protestant, it's very pop culture based, but we don't even have pop culture to unite us anymore because you don't have three major news networks anymore, right? It's not like you're even going into work and talking about the latest Seinfeld episode that everybody watched the night before because we're all on our devices watching a different thing than the guy next to us, and none of us even your kids they know people that you have no clue who they are, like they're watching some YouTuber that you are like what the hell is that guy? Like, my it's just such a uh a uh like a degraded culture at this point that that was the whole point. It wasn't about the whole point of what of trying to break down America so that because it is easier to divide us and then conquer us, and then you come in with a strong figure. So who's orchestrating it? I don't know. I think this is like real Illuminati shit. Like, I really do. I think this is this is what the whole point of the free movies is.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:30

If you're saying like it's it's um you know the preternational preternatural work of of demons that are human agents, sure. Yeah, I have no problem with that. Okay, so all right, now but if you if you're saying the US government who who can't no, I don't think it's the US government, I don't think it's the US government.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:48

I think it's all right, so all right. Now I my my thoughts on this have even evolved, right? Because going through the Venezuela stuff and the Intel agencies down there and all that stuff, um, what What you realize is because a lot a lot of times you have this idea of they, and you think there's some unified group of oligarchs controlling and pulling the strings from behind the scenes, right? Different groups of elite fight of elite that's what it is, right? It's different, it's different, different factions warring, even within the intel agencies, right? Even within the intel agencies, right? So when when you saw the whole thing with with Trump go down in 2016, these were intel agencies warring with each other. And what you had because the oh man, it's this is so hard to even like gather into coherent thought right now. There's so many things going on. So you had this you had this apparatus in other countries for censorship. It was like this censorship apparatus in other countries, and this was run through the NGOs like USAID and um like the uh the National Endowment for Democracy. This is all stuff I learned from like listening to Mike Benz about how we would control narratives in other nations to send NGOs in, they would foment revolution on the ground, and they would overthrow whatever government they would want to do. They would make it seem organic, like it was just this democratic uprising, but really they were pulling the strings the whole time. They turned that system in on America when Trump ran in 2016. So there was like this there, but it wasn't just one entity, there were different entities warring with each other and having factions.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:28

And and do I guess do you recognize that this is absolutely nothing new? I'm talking about like this goes back, the Romans would use different, you know, groups of elite, uh, elites and tribes to war against the other Gallic tribes and things like that. Like this, this is this is nothing new, right?

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:47

You you acknowledge that, yeah, of course. Okay, yeah, of course, but I think it's building towards something. Like, I think that's what like that. I I think you get frustrated with me saying, like, this is building towards something, like and and I think like very seriously building towards something. So that's why I'm I'm saying with the Venezuela stuff, with all this stuff, I have I have two minds about it, but um, so they turn that system in on us during during the the Trump election, and Trump gets in, upsets the one faction. But that's why you had like Obama's deep state basically frame Trump during that time, right? The Russia collusion stuff. Like you have Obama's deep state framing Trump. You go through the whole Russia collusion thing, they steal the freaking election. Then you come back to 2024, Trump wins, and now we all wanted Trump to clean out the deep state, but Trump doesn't actually clean out the deep state. What he does is he cleans out Obama's deep state, and we still have the other faction of the deep state still in there.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:51

I think we should try to define what these factions are, who they are, maybe what they work for. Like when you say Obama's deep state, I take that to mean like uh the globalists who want to uphold like the the liberal institutional world order that started in World War II, you know, whereas now it's like it the faction behind Trump seems to be like uh billionaire technocrats, right?

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:21

Yeah, and then you have like pushing more of the Russian they're pushing more like the Monroe Doctrine stuff, right? And then right, yeah. So so so like it's a difference in foreign policy and stuff like that. But I also think like there's a big element of so like when we talk about the CIA, like you were like you were saying, like, there's warring factions within the State Department, within the CIA and all that stuff. There's almost no separation of the Massad from the CIA, like they are basic and MI6, like that they're all basically like one super there's a lot of separation. There's there's factions between them, there's hiding from each other.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:58

Like we don't want there's factions within them that all work to like you'll have a faction the CA that works within a faction of MI6, but yes, you'll have also have factions within CAA that absolutely work against factions within MI6, and and you know the the relationship between the Western powers and Massad has always been yeah, because Massad will will totally you know run an operation that that kills CIA agents, yeah, and and vice versa.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:29

But yeah, yeah, there is always some connection. What really gets tricky is when you have dual citizenship Jews who have dual loyalties and their their main loyalty is to Israel, but either way, all this stuff, like even with Venezuela, right? You're you're talking about there were there were 25 years of CIA ops going on in Venezuela. Now these are like off-book ops. This is stuff where like, because the president, like the president can't be seen to know about these things, so they have to have like off-book ops going on. They've been trying to overthrow Venezuela for 25 years, not like major attempts, but like really shady stuff where like Richard Branson would throw a concert in Colombia right on the border with Venezuela, like a Taylor Swift concert or something like that, and USAID trucks would go in looking like they're bringing in humanitarian aid, and meanwhile, they're loaded with arms and munitions, and they're trying to start a freaking revolution in the country. There was this Operation Gideon that happened where there was uh a guy who ran like a private mercenary group, and they basically went in in 2020. He thought he had all his freaking connections in place with with spies inside of uh Maduro's government, and he goes to pull the trigger, but before he does, Mike Pompeo shuts down the embassy in uh Venezuela. Now, the the a US embassy is basically like a a staging point for CIA ops.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:07

Yeah, each embassy will have a CIA station chief that runs agents out of the embassy.

SPEAKER_03: 1:26:12

Yeah, it's been it's basically like a staging point for CIA ops. It's like uh I think uh Jeffrey Sachs has a quote. He said, uh, do you know why do you know why the American government has never been overthrown? Because they don't have a U.S. embassy in the United States. Like the U.S. embassy throughout all these different countries, they're basically just base operations for CIA ops in these different countries. So Mike Pompeo shuts down the embassy in Venezuela, and this guy just gets hung out to dry. And he's live tweeting in the midst of this military coup and trying to tell people we have boots on the ground, we have CIA has your back, and he's live tweeting it. Like, when the hell does the CIA tell or like when does like that remember that article I I posted that that uh screen grab where it was like Trump authorizes CIA operations in Venezuela? That article is written so that the guys inside of Maduro's government that are that the CIA was working with, it's like to encourage them, like, hey, no, CIA has your back, like continue with the coup. The whole coup winds up failing, and they pin it all on this one guy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:17

It's just the Bay of Pigs over again.

SPEAKER_03: 1:27:19

It's called the Bay of Piglets. Yeah, it's called the Bay of Piglets because it went as sour as the Bay of Pigs. Like, it's it's it's that's what happened. They call his operation the Bay of Piglets. Um, so so now Trump comes in in his second term. Like he was trying to do this throughout his whole first term. Like, you see, all these guys had like this whole thing, you know, they wanted to get this done. Trump comes in in his second term, and now this has been going on for 25 years, they're trying to flip Venezuela, and Trump's just got the balls to go in and just come try. We'll send a Delta team in, bro. Like, this Delta team, it is some mission impossible crap. What they did, like they freaking stormed this place with like all these helicopters and freaking F-35s, and they just they go in and they got this guy within like an hour and a half. They built a fake military base that that Maduro is staying in, like, they built a fake one in America with the exact blueprints. They had spies on the inside telling them exactly what room Maduro was in.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28:21

They freaking went in, they knew the gauge of steel, they knew all they practiced how long it would take to burn through.

SPEAKER_03: 1:28:27

Dude, turns out they they got to it before you could even lock it. Before you could even lock it, like they knew this building blindfolded. That's how well, like it was just dude, it is just nuts how how how this freaking operation went off. So now part of me is like, okay, uh like this new this new um faction that's in wants to do basically Monroe Doctrine really hard, right? So there's like this whole thing with Trump taking Greenland, now us getting our guy in in Venezuela, but also what happens in Venezuela, the reason they want to flip it is like it it has a lot to do with control of the oil, is a very big part of it, right? But that's not all it is. It's like once you flip something like this, you now get all these big corporations go in and they're basically gonna just like bleed the country dry. And it's like, you gotta get rid of all the mom and pop stores, we're gonna put a Walmart in, you're gonna get rid of this, and we're gonna put a Pizza Hut in, or we're gonna we're gonna Americanize the crap out of Venezuela.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:29

Let's be fair, all that stuff was already killed by the communists there. Like, we're not yeah, I'm not I'm not I'm I'm not glazing Amazon at Walmart or anything like that, but we're not replacing mom and pop shops. Mom and pop starved to death 10 years ago when they were told bunnies.

SPEAKER_03: 1:29:46

I'm talking about like when this happens in any country, this is yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like agit, like generally, this is kind of what happens, right? So now there is 17 trillion dollars in oil there. You don't want Russia and China in this area doing their crap. So, like you do want Venezuela to be under American control, and you do want to kick Russia and China out of there. You also do want us to get Greenland because Rob, you were telling me like that is actually where you can't you you don't see it when you look at a a normal uh what do they call it?

SPEAKER_02: 1:30:19

A merkate mer uh Mercada projection maps, the flat maps. But if you look at a globe, um Russia puts all their strategic assets, their submarines, their their strategic bombers, their missiles, up on like the the up right near Murmansk, uh up on the Kola Peninsula at the very north, north part of Russia. So they would all their their aircraft, their missiles, all of it would have to go over the North Pole and right over Greenland to get to the U.S. You don't see it when you look on a map, but Greenland is between the northern parts of North America and Russia. So any any flight, any missile has to go over Greenland. Like when a ballistic missile launches and flies, it it they're called that because they take a ballistic arc, right? It's a curve of the earth, yeah, and they they reach about a hundred thousand feet, right? So they're they're um well actually no ballistic missiles, they they generally actually enter space, so about a hundred miles up. Um the best place to to intercept that is at the apogee, the top of that arc. That the top of a ballistic Memphis missile arc from Russia is right over Greenland.

SPEAKER_04: 1:31:32

Right over Green.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:33

So if you're gonna put any aircraft interceptors to intercept their bombers, any uh ballistic missile interceptors, all of that has to go. Well, we used to have it all in Canada, right? The Canada was part of NORAD, but if you don't trust Canada anymore, your only other option to protect the US from Russia, and actually China too, because most missiles from China would have to go over the pole. The only option is Greenland.

SPEAKER_03: 1:31:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:59

And all the all the Russian submarines have to go through what they call the the Greenland-Iceland UK gap to get into the the North Atlantic. So if you no longer trust Iceland and the UK and your European allies to protect that gap, you need then the other piece, the Greenland piece.

SPEAKER_03: 1:32:18

Yeah, and we're like beefing with Canada right now, right? Like we Trump pulled all those stunts early on, and that's why they got that freaking idiot in in Canada and stuff. Like, this there's just so much that goes into this. So part of me is like, okay, yes, like let's shore up the hemisphere. Like, I like them in Road Doctrine. I like it way better than us meddling over in Iran and us meddling over in the Middle East. Like, I don't care about any of that stuff, but I kind of do like this idea of hemispheric protection, right? But it also feels like they're really gearing up for hemispheric war, man. Like and and Rob, you were even you were saying like that that's kind of inevitable, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:32:59

Well, we're we're now in a multipolar world, we're not in the unipolar or bipolar era, you know, when it was you know, the cold war when it was US and Russia, and then after the after the Cold War, up until recently, it was just the US. Now you have US, you have China, you have Russia. Um India thinks they might enter that arena.

SPEAKER_03: 1:33:20

You're looking at the British NATO nations essentially, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:33:24

Right, and now now you have Europe, which might come together and actually be uh be some sort of opponent to the US again, too. Like it you're entering a multipolar era, and you yeah, this is dude.

SPEAKER_03: 1:33:37

I I'm just like we are look, we are entering into some crazy stuff right now. That's all I'm saying, right? So now if you're if you're looking at this from the point of uh uh like who wants us to open our borders, who wants to flood the West with immigrants? It's Israel, like Israel really wants to flood the West with immigrants, they really do, like they because they looked at it like what happened in Germany was you got this sense of national pride, and they started seeing what the what the Jews are doing with their financial system and stuff, and that's kind of what put this opposition up against Israel. So Israel wants the West to be these multicultural democracies because the Jews kind of blend in when you have a multicultural democracy, they don't stand out as these odd figures, and it it's what what Israel really wants, um it's the same thing like your your globalists want, is they want um so in international relations, you have two main schools of thought.

SPEAKER_02: 1:34:40

Um that's the liberal school of thought and the realist school of thought. And in international relations, they mean different things than what like liberal usually means and stuff. Um liberalism in the international school of thought is the idea that you can uh run the world through institutions, right? Through NGOs, through the UN, through all these different institutions of nations and peoples working together. Israel wants that to kind of continue, right? Because the other option is the realist school of thought, where each nation is playing this this uh zero-sum game, right? And and each nation actually takes its own interest to heart and you know will actually protect itself and and work to improve itself at the cost of other nations, you know. It's like the way the world worked prior to World War II, basically. And when you have nations working for their own interest, that means they're potentially working against Israel's interest. Yeah, you know, that means if if if the US is working for its own interest, it's not gonna work for Israel's interest, and that scares it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:35:47

Yeah, what what I got from the EMJ stuff. Um, so we I'll tell you where I agree with him, where I disagree with him. Like, I agree with him in that we're coming to the end of this third um republic. Like some, like we're the the world war two narrative has worn off, right? The Holocaust narrative is is over. They there's going to be something else that happens. You're also dealing with the Jews are in their eight, they're coming up on their 80-year mark, which is uh basically the length of any kind of Jewish state. You go back to the the the kingdom of David, it lasts 80 years and then it kind of disintegrates. What what I think is there is that we opened our borders because Israel convinced us to open our borders. It happens in the 1960s. That's when we start opening the floodgates and we allow millions of foreigners to come in. It really picked up steam under the Biden administration in ways we blow will blow your mind. Then on top of that, you add in that Christians and Americans are not having children, and it it just kind of puts this situation of having Jews. I mean, Christians and Muslims are now look, the the the thing with America is like the Muslim population still is like less than one percent, they're just concentrated in major cities, but like 99.9% of the country is no Muslims, you know what I mean? It's just they're very highly concentrated in these cities. But I do think the narrative, like especially the past two years where you have all this enmity coming back up against the Jews, they will try to provoke enmity between Muslims and Christians within the United States to try and disintegrate the United States because while we're dealing with this multipolar world and we're trying to show up and get them in road doctrine, like I think Israel thinks they are a polar power, they think they're tender in this polar power, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:37:36

Because right now, the only truly sovereign nations in the world are those with nuclear weapons, and Israel, even though they have never acknowledged it and we don't know official numbers, we know it's estimated they have around 200 nuclear warheads, right?

SPEAKER_06: 1:37:50

And that puts them above don't we know that for certain that they have nukes?

SPEAKER_02: 1:37:53

Oh, they definitely have they've never acknowledged it, but yeah, we we know they have nukes.

SPEAKER_03: 1:37:58

But what I see, even when you look at the biblical narrative, Rob, is Israel sees America as the Roman Empire, and they don't just want to they want to rule the American Empire, like they want to run Rome. So I think they're trying to build up enmity to divide so that they can conquer and they can then bring order out of the chaos. So when I say like who's doing this, like I do essentially mean Israel because they've been the power brokers, but they're also there are different factions within Israel where they're on some sides of this war and they're on some other side. It's not like there's just one Israel doing all of this, but essentially, I do think it is Israel that wants to rule the Roman Empire, which is now America, and I think that we are heading towards something apocalyptic. Like, I just I've always felt that that's just kind of how I see it. I think we're going to be at war with Russia, with China, and all of this is just Trump. Like Trump on one hand, I think this is really smart, and I think if we are at war with Russia and China, this is a really smart move, and I really like it. What worries me the most is the tensions within the United States and us going to have a civil war within the United States more than but the war with them, right? But we do need to deal with the Muslims. I know we do. No, like that's also that's where I disagree with EMJ completely. Like, there is no unity with these people. No, there's just no you like you cannot like form an alliance with the Muslims.

SPEAKER_06: 1:39:26

Is that what he Michael Jones claims that we can have some kind of that's what he said on our show?

SPEAKER_03: 1:39:31

He he he's like, don't let so look, and I'll and I'll give him this like I do work with a couple of Muslim guys, and the only thing that unites us is when we see the Jews behind everything. So it's like when you have that common enemy, right? So, like Christians and Muslims can work together against the Jews, but then they'll just go to war with each other anyway. Well, and the thing is like it's an inevitable conflict that's coming between Muslims and Christians, but I think in the modern era, in the modern era, we tend not to realize that it's usually the Jews and Muslims working together against the Christians that in the modern world, but really that MIT is no no. I mean, no, I mean historically, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:40:08

Historically, it was the Jews and Muslims, you know. You know, there's the whole gates of Tol Toledo thing and stuff like that, but they Jews had pretty high places in many Muslim governments, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:40:21

So my friend, my friend, my Muslim friend that I work with, he's like, he's like, you don't understand. He goes, You're dealing with these Muslim nations. He's like, You you he's the Jews run these Muslim nations, like they could they control the Muslim nations too. That all because all of the Muslims in power are taking bribes and they want to have money and they want to be wealthy, and they want to they want to play power games, and they know you the Gulf states, the Gulf states, yeah, they definitely have relations with with Israel, Iran not so much, but yeah, right, exactly. They're but that's why they want to topple. That's why they want regime change in Iran. They want regime change in Iran because Iran won't play games with them. But every other country that we toppled is run by the Jews now, right? Like Iraq and Syria and all these countries now have like we were literally fighting with the guy who took over.

SPEAKER_02: 1:41:12

I think Iraq is largely more uh allied with uh Iran at this point.

SPEAKER_03: 1:41:17

They're mostly maybe yeah. I don't I don't know enough about it, but I know in Syria we did regime change in Syria, and that was largely Israel, yeah. And it's a hundred percent Israel, like they're they're literally being the broom of you know, they're they're they're doing Israel's bit. Like the the guy who took power in it in Syria was our enemy, like uh a couple of years ago, and and he just changed his group's name. He's ISIS, like yeah, he's basically ISIS, and they put him in power and he's playing their games with them. So, when I when I worry about happening in America is that you're not going to be fighting Muslims, you're going to be fighting the power behind them, and it's not going to, and they're going to be providing them arms, just like USAID was providing arms to the rebels down in Venezuela. You're going to have these secret ops coming and delivering arms and ammunitions to whatever rebel group decides to throw a fit in America, and they will foment revolution on the streets. Like, do not think that is do not think that cannot happen in America. It absolutely can't. It won't be like the civil war.

SPEAKER_02: 1:42:18

We've talked about it every Mason line. Adrian and I have talked about it every Monday for like the last month.

SPEAKER_03: 1:42:22

Yeah, like don't think it's like you're not gonna have a Mason Dixon line that divides us. You're going to have these outbursts of violence in the city, and you're going to have these covert operations delivering arms to these people, and there's going to be rebels in America. And like partly what you and Adrian are talking about is really important because how the hell are you going to defend your family when this shit happens? Because it is definitely going to happen, and it's going to happen like in the next decade.

SPEAKER_02: 1:42:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:42:50

Like, this is not a joke, this is not some like 30 years from now thing. This is going to happen. There's going to be rebel factions in the streets of America. Now, that doesn't mean in rural America, if you're out in the middle of nowhere, but in the major cities where you have these high concentrations of Muslim populations, I think they will be.

SPEAKER_02: 1:43:07

I don't think um I don't think you'll see it's going to be what's called uh low-intensity conflict. So it's think of like uh the Charlie Kirk assassination. Think of that. Remember a couple days after that, there was the guy that um people driving their car shot at the ice parades. It it's gonna be stuff like that, you know, a couple times a week all across the country, uh, but for months. Like it's it's not gonna get to the point where you get to not go to your day job, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03: 1:43:37

Like no, it'll be it'll be very isolated, yeah, and you won't know where something's going to happen.

SPEAKER_02: 1:43:42

It's not gonna be like 95% of your life will still be normal, yeah. But you'll never know when that other five percent is gonna hit.

SPEAKER_03: 1:43:49

It can pop up anyway, it's gonna be acts of terrorism, things like that. But I'm just like, I this is my fear for America that because we have basically and and the thing is like it's not just gonna be Muslims you're fighting, it's this race war that they're provoking too. All this stuff I've been talking about on social media. I'm like, they're trying to make me hate black people, like they're trying to make me hate them, and I know they are because it's like every other video is some black guy hurting an innocent white person, and I'm like, this isn't like really happening everywhere, but you'd swear it was if you're watching social media, right? So it's going to not be you're not gonna be Christians versus Muslims, gonna be it's gonna be white people versus all the minorities that they've allowed to flow into our country, and it's not it's not like every minority is gonna be fighting against you, but that that they're going to take a side, and there's gonna be hostility between the like dude. This is what they are doing in America. I'm telling you, I'm watching it happen, and that was kind of where my thought was going when I tweeted that out, and you were kind of counter-signaling me. Like, I had all of this in my head, and I'm just like, I was just trying to get like a thought out because I'm like, all right, I like I I don't know, man. I just kind of I was like, this is stuff we've been talking about for so long on the show, and it just seems like it's all culminating, seems like it's all culminating together, and then the one thing the Venezuela stuff has done is it's got us to stop talking about the Jews, stop talking about this, and we're all focused on that right now, which I like I said, I'm of two minds about it. Like, part of me is like, this is a really good thing because we need to shore up our defenses, and and the other thing is if we are at war with China and Russia, like that could unify us, right? Like, like if we're actually at war with China, man. I'm sorry, I haven't let you say a word in all this. I'm just like I'm just processing.

SPEAKER_02: 1:45:33

I haven't good luck with that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:45:38

I just I don't know, man. I don't I don't I don't I don't think I'm crazy for thinking this stuff. Like, I I really do see this as and and this is this is why the Trump stuff scares me too, because he is so freaking funny and charming sometimes, man. And then other times he's just going and doing whatever the hell Israel tells him to do is the most pro-Zionist administration I've ever seen in my entire life. And then other times I'm laughing my ass off because he's talking about how his wife thinks it's unpresidential for him to dance, and I'm just like, holy shit, this guy is hilarious, man. But like the Antichrist is gonna be charming as hell, man. Like, he really is. And I'm I know whatever. I just think like there's potential there. Like, I've never seen worship of somebody, like, even this stuff of Venezuela, man, it's like it's kind of like short maga up, where like even the people who were like the civil war, remember the civil war that was in the Republican Party two weeks ago? That kind of seems to have dissipated. And what you haven't what's so interesting is like you you I watched this happen with all of with everybody when the Venezuela thing happened. I watched everybody fall in line behind their favorite influencer. So you have like the Dave Smith libertarians come out and they're like, This is just like Iraq, and then you have the Fuentes fans who are like, We're America, go screw yourself, we can do whatever the hell we want. And it was, and I didn't say a word because I'm kind of just watching everybody fall in line behind their favorite influencer. And I was just like, I kind of want to know what's going on here.

SPEAKER_06: 1:47:01

Have you seen any exchanges between Dr. Ed Faser and that too, right?

SPEAKER_03: 1:47:07

And I'm watching Tim Gordon get involved, and I was watching dude. Majarian was like, I talked to Majarian yesterday about this stuff because the talking past each other, right? And and Rob, you did that to me yesterday, where you were like, like, I said one thing about the Intel agencies, and you were like, So you're telling me the Venezuelan people aren't happy about Madurine? I'm like, I freaking said I like pancakes, you're telling me I hate waffles. I'm like, what is this? Like, that's not what I'm saying. I was kind of just I was basically what I just like said about the intel agencies was just all I was studying yesterday, right? So I I was I was just listening to I I watched a freaking um uh a conversation with the guy who got pinned with the blame for the Operation Gideon going wrong.

SPEAKER_02: 1:47:51

He he did a two-hour interview with to be fair, you you do have to take anything easy about it with the grain of salt, like you would anyone else.

SPEAKER_03: 1:47:59

Anything anything who said that guy. No, no, no. I listened to I listened to Mike Benz breaking down the CIA stuff, then I went and listened to Max Blumenthal do an interview with the guy who got that's what I mean, right? Can't necessarily take everything about it after the thing. Of course, but so that's why I'm trying to say like I I'm trying to hear everybody's perspective, right? And not just like jump on a bandwagon because I know anything, like I don't know anything about Venezuela. Who the hell I'm gonna jump in and take a side in this stuff, like I don't know anything.

SPEAKER_02: 1:48:30

All I know is the White House tweeting out the video of the raid with Fortunate Sun playing in the background. It is peak, it was amazing. I'm not gonna say if it's morally right or wrong. I don't know. He knows how to troll, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_03: 1:48:47

He he does know how to troll, right?

SPEAKER_06: 1:48:49

And and part of the book recommendation for you guys, I think Anthony in particular. I have you ever heard of this book by Father Kramer, The Mystery of Iniquity?

SPEAKER_03: 1:48:58

No, but it sounds really intriguing. I would like to read that.

SPEAKER_06: 1:49:01

I think the the Fatima Center published it years ago. I mean, I definitely don't agree with Father Kramer's position on Benedict's resignation and and all that stuff, you know, kind of where he stands on things now. But this this book has some very interesting things. He he ties into the it's an old it's he brings together the prophecies of various saints and blesseds, and obviously the message of Our Lady of Fatima in light of the geopolitical stuff, and it it incorporates certainly the role of Israel, and he actually has a disclaimer, I think, at the beginning of the book. Uh you know, making sure that people know he's not anti-Semitic for point, you know, he what does he say? Let me see if I can find it real quick.

SPEAKER_02: 1:49:45

Um that will just make them say he's anti-Semitic all that much more. Right, probably so.

SPEAKER_03: 1:49:52

Yeah, but the Matt, the reason I never go down the prophecy road is because you actually don't need to. If you just look at scripture, right? Like if you if you understand the story of how um if you understand the story of Christ's first coming and how the Sanhedrin co uh colludes with Rome to crucify the Messiah, like that Yeah, I brought that that point up exactly when I interviewed Father Modsley.

SPEAKER_06: 1:50:16

That's it's the same thing happening again, it's the same thing happening all over again.

SPEAKER_03: 1:50:19

Like it's is it just how typology unfolds? It's like that pattern is what will happen in the end, right? And you also have in the apocalypse, it talks about the whore riding the beast, drunk on the blood of the martyrs, right? Just that image alone. You have the beast returns, which is why we name the channel Avoiding Babylon, because Babylon returns, which is essentially the return because Rome is the return of Babylon in the first century. So when John is writing his apocalypse, he's talking about the beast, he's talking about Babylon, but now Babylon has come about in Rome, right? And then at the end time, that beast will go, it's the beast that was, is not, and will return. So Babylon is the beast that was, is not, because we go through this period of Christian history where the beast is not because God's spirit covers the earth and then will return. Now the whore rides the back of the beast. So if America is that beast, if it is the return of Babylon, literally, like there's never been a more powerful empire than the American Empire. I'm sorry, and we just proved it in what we did in Venezuela. We did prove that. We proved you do listen. There's a lot of things that went on in Venezuela. There's because there's a lot of South American countries that are getting a little cute, and Trump is basically like, Oh, you think you're cute? I'll literally rob you out of your bed while you're asleep at night. No, after turning off the power to your whole nation magically, somehow, like this is the message Trump is sending. Like, you you South American countries, you think you're cute. I will literally kidnap you in your sleep. You won't even know it hit you. You'll be in cooks in the southern district of New York tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02: 1:52:00

Only hours after you meet with the Chinese delegation that is still in the Capitol, while you turn the power off.

SPEAKER_03: 1:52:07

Dude, I was in New York City. I was in New York City on Saturday when the choppers brought Maduro in. And I'm I'm talking to Bobby. I'm sitting, I'm sitting with Bobby and Jim, and I'm like, yo, what the hell is going on? Where are all these choppers, bro? Like, it's you you thought like you thought something crazy was going on. And Bobby looks at me and he goes, Bro, they're bringing Maduro into the Southern District of New York, right? They're bringing him into DPS. It makes no sense to me.

SPEAKER_06: 1:52:31

Like, why why does New York have any part in this? I don't quite understand.

SPEAKER_02: 1:52:34

They have to church they have to they have to charge him in some, you know, in some district court.

SPEAKER_03: 1:52:38

And and the Southern District of New York is the most corrupt court in the nation. This is where Epstein got off light on his sentence. This is where this is where um uh uh comey's daughter runs the Southern District of New York. Like there's so many like they're putting on this show trial from Madoro. He's gonna put on all these all these motions he's gonna try and put out and be like, they kidnapped me in my sleep. This isn't a fair trial. I have diplomatic immunity. They're gonna pretend to go through all these motions. This guy's done. Like, I'm surprised they did it in New York because there's no death penalty in New York, but it is kind of like wild.

SPEAKER_02: 1:53:11

No, he's not be, but he's being charged with federal crimes.

SPEAKER_03: 1:53:14

Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he can still get the death penalty. Yes, yeah, he's charged federally.

SPEAKER_06: 1:53:19

So here let me read a little the let me just read a real brief excerpt here. I think this will whet your uh appetite for this book. So Father Kramer talks a lot about the alliance between Russia and China, but there's also going to be uh Islam is gonna be in the alliances as well. He says, um, the prophetic revelations made to blessed sister Elena Ayelo confirm the earlier prophecies of St. John Bosco, Blessed Anna Maria Taiji, and others that there will be a great war waged against the Western nations by Russia, China, and the Islamic nations. And this is something I've argued in a talk I gave years ago at a Fatima Center conference called the um the end of Islam, Russia's future role. Like I'm convinced that the reason why Russia is specific the reason one reason why God has singled out Russia is because Russia is is necessary in order to bring about the conversion of the Islamic nations. Like there's a there's a a natural um affinity between communism and Islam. Uh because they they're both collectivist and they're idiot, you know, then their mentality, they're both um, I don't know, I go through a lot of these things in my life.

SPEAKER_02: 1:54:34

It's all the will to power in both of them.

SPEAKER_06: 1:54:36

Right, exactly. There's a lot of overlap uh between there's a lot of ideological overlap between communism and Islam. So Father Kramer says most westers have no idea as to just how dangerous the geopolitical situation is. They have allowed themselves to be convinced that the United States is the world's only superpower, and therefore they believe the United States can exert its will wherever it wishes while remaining unchallenged by any other competitor.

SPEAKER_03: 1:55:06

Yeah, sounds awful. Look, and now you now you bring in uh what Malachy Martin said. Malachy Martin said, like, look, look, like salvation will come from the east, right? Which is like the Western church is such a mess right now that maybe we need a little chastisement from the east. So that's coming in, like that's bringing the Russia equation in. It's also like we are so due for a chastisement from God because we are the Christian West. We converted the world, we have abandoned our God. Like it's as simple as that. And if you if you look at any period in salvation history, God always chastises his children because he loves them. So when I talk about this hemispheric war and we're going to war with Russia and China, like, part of me is like, look at what you did in Venezuela. Like, we could take anyone on, but the other part is you have to take into account the chastisement that is due to us. Like now we're not Europe, Europe is really the Christian West, right? So Europe is really due to chastisement. It's not the same for America where we abandoned our God in the same way because we're a Protestant nation. So I don't know exactly how it works out for us, but Europe is due. Like they abandoned their God, man.

SPEAKER_06: 1:56:22

And right, and that's what I mean. That that's uh what Father Kramer discusses in his book as well. And I discussed in my uh 2017 talk. Um, you know, there are indications that Russia will invade the West at some point. Um so we'll see what happens, I guess.

SPEAKER_03: 1:56:40

Yeah, look, there's also a connection between Our Lady appearing in Fatima, right? And Fatima is the only woman in the Quran that they speak positively about, aside from Our Lady. So, like, I think there's a connection there about maybe some sometime like at the end where Our Lady says her immaculate heart will prevail, there will be a mass conversion of Muslims, maybe, because they already have uh a uh like a softness towards Our Lady. Like if you look to Zait Zaitoon or Zaitan in Egypt, like she brought peace to Christians and Muslims there when she appeared, things like that.

SPEAKER_06: 1:57:12

But yeah, Archbishop Sheen talked about the significance of Our Lady appearing in Fatima, that uh foreshadows a conversion of the Muslims for real.

SPEAKER_03: 1:57:22

Yeah, look, oh now I'm always thinking in terms of like the spiritual chastisement we're doing. I'm always thinking in terms of the Christian story, and then I'm and then I'm looking at just the geopolitical situation. I'm looking at the the situation of politics in America and how fractured things are, and I'm looking at this so much of the fake stuff we see on social media and how easy they can manipulate us. Like, all it takes is Elon to pump a story in the algorithm, and holy crap, man, dude, he responded to one tweet of mine. He put a smiley face under my tweet. Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:58:00

I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:58:01

Got 11 million impressions, dude. Like it blew away anything I've ever tweeted before. And it's like this guy can literally just throw an emoji under a tweet and it has that effect. If he's pumping a story out and he has control of the algorithm itself, like he can literally just go boop and click that thing up and that thing goes wild. Like the amount of manipulation they are capable of at this point, it's worse than the three major news networks. Like, Rob, you were saying, like, um, like the uh the media wasn't even covering the Somali fraud story. But the thing is, just because like the boomers don't watch it on Fox News or CNN doesn't mean the X algorithm, like X runs the news cycle now, right? So it affected it and runs the news cycle, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:58:50

Yeah, you you're right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:58:51

The fact that yeah, the fact that it made a big gun X made did force it into forces it into the meeting, even then, like I mean, dude, it was enough pressure to get Tim Waltz to drop out of the race, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:59:03

Right, but what I'm saying is, yeah, Tim Waltz dropped out nine out of ten people in Minnesota were surprising and no idea why.

SPEAKER_03: 1:59:11

But they eventually got like the that's the the thing is like X runs the news cycle, so and and dude, if that story would have got 20 million views, it wouldn't have it wouldn't have affected him. But because Elon can pump it, or because whoever wants to pump, like whoever is in control of that algorithm can pump a story so much that it gives them no free. Why do you think Elon bought Twitter? You really think it was about free speech? No, he understood what it was. It is the marketplace, it is the town square where Martin Luther can nail his 95 thesis at this point. Like that is what we're talking about with Twitter. Twitter is where we are we are curating news. Like, I don't get my news.

SPEAKER_06: 1:59:52

Speaking of the apocalypse, I think Elon is a very concerning person. And Neuralink and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_03: 2:00:02

Matt, he comes in like this savior figure. He saves the world and gives us back our free speech. But meanwhile, he's just controlling what we're talking about. It's not really you look, you don't have to worry about getting canceled anymore or suspended or losing your account, but he controls the conversation.

SPEAKER_06: 2:00:21

Well, as long as you're not being anti-Semitic or whatever.

SPEAKER_03: 2:00:24

That's not even true. That's what's even more interesting, is the anti-Semitism that came up in the last two years, I think is manipulated. Nick Fuentes coming up and blowing up before all our faces is manipulated. Like I think that that all is being put, it's not it's not organic. I mean, some of it is definitely that has been very interesting.

SPEAKER_06: 2:00:47

It's like that's one of the in my opinion, that's one of the most significant things in 2025 as far as the political conversation is the mainstreaming of Nick Fuentes. But being interviewed by Tucker and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_03: 2:00:59

Two years ago, me and Rob, when we discussed the Jews, we had to call them the Amish because they would have canceled the freaking channel. So we would talk about the Jews like very subtly and we'd be like, oh, the Amish did this, and you know, the Amish did this. And you wouldn't get banned because there's no Amish person on social media to complain, you know. So like you can get away with stuff by calling them the Amish. That Shag Bark was kind of close. Shagbark?

SPEAKER_04: 2:01:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 2:01:24

But the the idea that we're now allowed to openly deny the Holocaust on YouTube is insane. Like you can it's in their terms of fairness.

SPEAKER_02: 2:01:36

No, I know. I'm just saying that the you don't think you don't think the the Overton window has truly shifted in some sense.

SPEAKER_03: 2:01:44

I think the Overton window has shifted because certain voices have been brought to prominence.

SPEAKER_02: 2:01:49

You don't think there's any possibility they just came to prominence due to demographic shifting and zoomers becoming more prominent and aging up and things like that.

SPEAKER_03: 2:02:00

Dude, I just know this stuff was so well suppressed for so long. Like Nick was talking like this for years. It wasn't until Elon brings him back to Twitter, right? Elon brings him back to Twitter, and Nick like has like a year period where like the Daily Wire stuff. I'm not saying it's not organic, like I think Nick is unbelievably talented, and I think that he absolutely gained notoriety. But dude, I'm talking in my freaking video flip. I know it's people I subscribe to, and I know the algorithm is giving me what I want to see, but dude, it was wild. Like this kid went on a generational run, like nothing I've ever seen, where everybody they would they wanted to cut this kid out of the conversation, and all of a sudden it was like he was on every freaking big podcast, like every one of them. And it's like part of it is um, you know, just because they want to talk about the the main kid, but part of it uh to me could could be whatever. I'm not even saying it's like good or bad, like I'm so grateful for it because I'm able to talk about these things now, right? So like I'm happy that the Overton window is shifted, and I'm happy I'm able to actually get these thoughts out because these are things that I've been thinking for a long time and I'm finally able to get them out. So I'm happy about the Overton ship window shift, but I'm also going, man, they are trying to brew up animosity against the Jews so that they can have another event, so that they can have another Holocaust, so that they can play the victim again. Like all that stuff is is happening. Could be that's how I I that's just kind of how I see it. So um, yeah, dude, like Twitter feels like the Wild West again, right? It kind of feels like you could get away with saying anything against funds. Like you get you see, Trent Horn literally freaking trying to trying to mimic my my tweeting style to promote his book. These guys all had something to say. These guys all had something to say. I'm a troll, it's not proper to use social media like that. Then Trent's gotta sell a book, and what does he say? Catholics worship properly, Protestants don't worship God at all. It's like, dude, that is something I would say, and you would have criticized me for it in a video subliminally and not said my name. Subliminally. Has he ever engaged you directly?

SPEAKER_02: 2:04:18

We've had him on the show.

SPEAKER_03: 2:04:20

That's right, that was a long time ago. But they got to a point when I started talking about um it when it when it stopped being cordial, I think, and it's not even not cordial, we haven't had an argument or anything. He stopped reaching out to me after I criticized him for going on the that project that um uh Phylos. The Phylos Project. So Trent gave a talk at the Phylos Project, which is like these uh Hebrew Catholics, they're like this group of Hebrew Catholics who are trying to stop.

SPEAKER_06: 2:04:50

It's a Zionist front group of some kind, right?

SPEAKER_03: 2:04:53

And he gave a talk there, and I and that was the first show where like I really was like, Look, you see what they're doing, they're trying to gobble up Catholic voices to get them to be a very pro-Zionist move, and then all of a sudden Matt Frad goes over to the Daily Wire, and I'm like, This stuff has to be talked about, like I don't really care anymore. Then I'm just like have Father Maudsley on, I don't care, let him say whatever he wants. Like, this stuff is too important to not discuss. It was it's just too important, and I don't care what happens at this point.

SPEAKER_06: 2:05:21

Yeah, but yeah, I'd like to have Father Maudsley back on at some point on my channel. His his video and my video with Father Ripper are my two most popular so far.

SPEAKER_03: 2:05:33

Yeah, those are two, two, yeah. He he's up there on ours too. I got I I uh even the kid that got that got the priest for me for the pilgrimage. Um the the the priest was like, yeah, he's like uh the kid that's coming because that kid's coming on the pilgrimage too. And uh he's like uh he's like, yeah, he really likes your show. He he likes Father, he likes Father Mosley a lot.

SPEAKER_06: 2:05:56

I was like, me too. I still need to watch Father Mosley's videos on his rumble channel. I still haven't gotten around to that.

SPEAKER_03: 2:06:04

I I'm I'm fully on board with what he has, what he's what he's put forth at this point. Um, yeah, I just I I don't know. All this stuff has just been kind of like tumbling through my brain for the past couple of days, and I just the Venezuela stuff. Yeah, it's like it's not Iraq. So like the the libertarian argument, I'm just like that's falling flat for me. It's not Iraq, it's not you can't blame this one on Israel. Like, yeah, sure, Israel has like their oil interests there, and they've said Venezuela's anti-Semitic, but this has nothing to do with Israel. Not really, you know what I mean? I mean, they'll they'll always benefit from it because there's big business involved and stuff like that. But this isn't one of their we need to overthrow this dictator so that we can do what we need to do in this region. Like you gotta worry about that region over there. That's what I you know, I don't want to be involved over there. This is very different. Um, we didn't go in and start a war, we went in and grabbed the guy. We had minimal casualties.

SPEAKER_02: 2:07:04

Um, if it were to end here, I don't know if I really have any problem with it. Me too. I mean, I'm not gonna say it was pretty, I think it's pretty suspect or in I don't know if that's the right word.

SPEAKER_06: 2:07:17

Yeah, I think it is. I mean, when I because I watched the press conference that they gave afterwards with Trump and you know the cabinet members talking about what happened, and Trump saying that we're gonna run Venezuela basically indefinitely.

SPEAKER_02: 2:07:31

Like the thing is at this point, if you don't do anything more, you America is running Venezuela. And we do have some sort of hegemonic power over them because we can come in and grab you at any time.

SPEAKER_03: 2:07:47

So they basically put the vice president in, like the vice president is in. Now, this is the chick who beat Trump for the freaking Nobel Peace Prize.

SPEAKER_02: 2:07:54

No, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. That there was talk originally that that we were gonna install the opposition, right? But in the lead up to this, through all the planning, the um we wanted meetings with the opposition leader, uh Mikado, Machado, something like that, right? And we wanted to hear her plan, you know, what they were gonna do. Did they could they get enough support from the military?

SPEAKER_03: 2:08:18

Oh, she wasn't the vice president, she was the opposition, she was the opposition, okay.

SPEAKER_02: 2:08:22

And we did not feel confident like that the opposition could actually come in and create a stable government. So we're like, Well, let's just have Maduro's next in line come in and see if he's a little less bad.

SPEAKER_03: 2:08:34

Okay, and now they're leaving.

SPEAKER_06: 2:08:38

I think Maduro's second in command. The vice president is also a woman, and she basically according to what we're being told, she's willing to cooperate in whatever way necessary.

SPEAKER_03: 2:08:49

Like, what other option does she you gonna cooperate? Are you gonna cooperate? Like let me tell you good old Maduro in his cell. Basically, listen, honey, you're gonna tell you how this is gonna work. You want to cooperate, or you want to cooperate? Because there's two ways we can go about this. So that's basically the choice she's given. So, I'm like like Rob said, if like like if they could actually do this from this point out, now look, baby, like you hope for some some uh relief for the Venezuelan people, you hope for like opening up of them to be able to actually have commerce and be able to bring their I thought it was very telling, actually, that Leo's statement really did not condemn the action at all.

SPEAKER_02: 2:09:28

That all he really said was we need to be concerned for you know for the for the welfare of the Venezuelan people. And it's like, yeah, absolutely, yeah, you know, but he didn't say like no, you shouldn't have done that, or that was wrong, or anything like that.

SPEAKER_03: 2:09:41

Yeah, so let's you know, let's see, uh let's see what happens here. But I'm not like I'm watching the libertarians go about their usual no farm. What like the dude?

SPEAKER_02: 2:09:50

This is this just isn't that it's the chat goes, Venice Venezuela is screwed. The choice is literally between two Latinx women, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03: 2:10:03

You pick them between boys. I don't know what to tell you. Um, the uh yeah, it's just like I you know, I I was like Eric Salmons came out today. I didn't watch his video, but I'm sure he just regurgitated what Dave Smith said. Um I just wasn't going down that road. I wanted to actually get kind of a feel for what's actually going on, and I still don't know like what the hell do we know about Venezuela? Like, I I just what I thought was interesting is that they did use identical propaganda for the American people for for Iraq and this. And I don't I don't think they need to anymore. Like, I think what Trump's doing is just coming out and saying, like, yeah, we're coming in for the oil, is a better propaganda tool. Like, just come out and tell if you come out and tell me why you're actually doing this, I'll be on board.

SPEAKER_02: 2:10:50

I wish Trump was maybe like the oil is the part of it, but not because we necessarily need the like it's a strategic, like we we're doing it for the interest of the United States.

SPEAKER_03: 2:11:01

No, he's just Trump. He just need to save that, but it's it's he's not capable of that. Like, no, I don't it's not just that we need the oil, it's that you need Russia and China out of there. Like, they have to get the just like we had to take the Panama Panama Canal back. Like, we needed to take the Panama Canal back because China ran the Panama Canal and they had control over every bit of goods that were coming in and through, going to California to one one thing people um aren't realizing with this operation is like though you see the left complaining about how we murdered 32 uh Cuban soldiers, right?

SPEAKER_02: 2:11:34

People don't realize what that actually means. Like Maduro's security detail were were Cuban soldiers, not not soldiers from Cuba, they were actual soldiers of the Cuban military guarding him. Yeah, it's not be like there's a reason for that, it's because Venezuela and Maduro they were a client of Russia and China, and Russia and China used run Cuba to keep Venezuela in line, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 2:12:05

Like now that opens up Venezuela. Now that opens up what do we do with Cuba? Because Cuba's 90 miles off the southern tip of Florida, and Venezuela's on the opposite side of that. So it's like, what do we do with it?

SPEAKER_02: 2:12:15

Rubio's preparing his whole life for that whole life for this, man.

SPEAKER_03: 2:12:18

Like you have to think about how crazy the Cuba thing has been. Like, you go back to the Cuban Missile Crisis, and you go about like all this stuff, and Trump is just the maniac crazy enough to go in and say, we don't care what taking Cuba to. Like, like he'll just do it. I don't know, like, there's something so sick about it, it's like you gotta respect it. Like, but like, what is the blowback from all this stuff, man? I don't know. We don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 2:12:48

I I do think you'll see Europe continue to pull away from us. I think that's pretty clear. I think so too. Yeah, Europe's gonna continue to pull away. I think you'll we'll get more active in in other Latin American nations, Cuba, likely Colombia, likely Mexico. Um which honestly, like if we can create stable partnerships there, and I'm not saying like nation building, I don't care if they vote or have a democracy. But if we get someone in Venezuela who is technically a dictator that's not starving or murdering their people and is willing to work with us, I don't mind, you know. If we can create some stable partnerships between us and and a few countries down there, I think Mexico, South America, right?

SPEAKER_03: 2:13:35

Like, like it makes more sense than Europe and Europe and Canada. Like I know, I know Majarians like using foul language, but like Europe, like we there's nothing left for us there. There's really not like they're there's something going on with their brain over there, they're just totally caught up still with the woke nonsense and the old like they're still in that world.

SPEAKER_02: 2:13:58

Well, it's um I I'm not gonna say I I agree with the premise I'm about to lay out entirely, but there is something to it, I think. And I've seen it put a few ways on Twitter and memes and in threads and stuff, but basically, if you had for what 400 years, you had the the best, brightest, most adventurous of the Europeans leave Europe and come to the United States. Yeah, you had that generation after generation after generation.

SPEAKER_03: 2:14:31

It was the land of opportunity, and it was you know, and and yeah, and there's also a bit of like so.

SPEAKER_06: 2:14:38

Now there are just beta Europeans left. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_03: 2:14:41

I mean, it almost narrative wasn't what you did. The your the Holocaust narrative gripped.

SPEAKER_02: 2:14:46

I mean, what you get left is Gavin Ashington.

SPEAKER_03: 2:14:52

The Holocaust narrative, you know you want to laugh at that. It's funny, I don't know. The Holocaust narrative, like it destroyed Germany, like destroyed it. Uh for for four generations now. Like the German men is they're just I don't know, man. Like, you think about what Germany was capable of, and then after World War II, they're just decimated, like just just emotionally, mentally, spiritually drained totally. Europe has lost all of its spiritual spiritual heritage, right? Like we're uh we're going to Italy.

SPEAKER_06: 2:15:35

Just to play the devil's advocate.

SPEAKER_02: 2:15:38

I think that um uh I well I think you had the the destruction of a whole generation of German men in in the war itself, in the war itself, right? And and then the fact that the the women who survived were all raped, literally, by the by the Russians.

SPEAKER_03: 2:15:59

Yeah, right. So so so like they're they're not even German anymore, they're Russian, like they're they're Soviet. Like they're they're women. No, Matt, if you uh if you knew what happened to Germany after the war, like if you if you knew what happened to Germany after the war, it was just a 80% of women between between the ages of eights and eighty, eighty percent were raped, just by rapes, and just I mean, it's just they they totally destroy it. It was ethnic cleansing in a eugenic sense, like they eugenically cleanse them by just polluting their DNA with Russian Soviet blood, you know. Um, but not just that, like even England, man, it's a former shell of itself, and France too, like all of them. It's like it's all just they they betrayed their god when you do that, man. Like it's just you you think nothing of allowing the enemy in, you think nothing of your your inheritance, you think nothing of any of that stuff. Like I'm going to Italy and I'm going to see like the treasures of Christendom, which it's it's like, man, more like the ashes. You're going there to see the ashes. It's kind of what it is. You're going to see you're going to see the remnants of the treasures of Christendom. And part of me thinks it might be my last opportunity to go. Like part of me really thinks that. Like, I don't, and I'm like, I better get one last trip, and I want my children to see their heritage. I want my children to see what their ancestors built, and that's kind of why I'm going. And uh there you go. Yeah. All right. We're uh we're gonna wrap this one up. We went longer than typical. Um it was fun, fun night back. Uh, locals was definitely more fun than uh because Rob, honestly, this is what I wanted to talk about tonight, but I didn't I didn't we could I think we could release this as a segment. Yeah, I think so. I think we could release this as a segment. Oh, and and even the Jonathan Roomy clip is a good clip. All right.

SPEAKER_06: 2:18:06

You gotta release the Pelican Plus line, I think. No, that's already out. That's on YouTube.

SPEAKER_03: 2:18:17

I mean, okay.

SPEAKER_02: 2:18:19

It isn't good fun.

SPEAKER_03: 2:18:20

Like I know, that's why I laughed at it. But dude, uh, it's in good fun, except when people are like super sensitive. Like like you, you know, you know, a lot of the guys in that in that whole outfit are like super sensitive, like they can't they can't take a joke. That's what it comes down to. Like, if somebody makes a joke about me, I'm gonna laugh at them.

SPEAKER_02: 2:18:40

Okay, I'll be honest, half of it wasn't good fun, half of it is because of what you just said.

SPEAKER_03: 2:18:45

Like, they can't they can't joke about themselves, they can't they have no they they don't laugh about like if somebody takes a shot at me, I'm gonna laugh at it, especially if it's funny. Like, yeah, right, exactly. If something's funny, it's funny. I mean, look at the videos Taffy makes of us every week, every week. Who is I will say thank uh Taffy makes our intro videos, but Taffy, thank you for always making us look thinner than we actually are. I appreciate it. That's a yeah, that's a solid I'll be I'll be I'll be ripped by Lent, but until then. All right, man. We're gonna wrap this up. Matt, thank you for coming. I'm sorry I babbled over you for most of the show, but it's it's fun to listen to. I w I went on quite a tangent on locals tonight, so um, all right, Rob, take us out, bro. Petered out on this one. Yep, sure did. It went in with a bang and out with a whisper.