The Catholic Gospel vs The Protestant Gospel

Tired of surface-level hot takes during Advent? We press pause on the news cycle and dive into Scripture’s living architecture—how David, Solomon, Isaiah, and John converge to reveal a Kingdom that isn’t just future hope but present reality. We walk through the liturgical calendar’s wisdom, the shock of John’s “hour,” and the way Cana’s stone jars unlock Exodus, Numbers, and a new creation pattern. Along the way we confront a popular error: the idea that Christ hasn’t yet established His Kingdom. If the Gospel announces “the Kingdom is at hand,” then the Church is not a holding pattern—it’s the King’s reign made visible in Word, sacrament, and a Eucharistic temple.

We explore Marian typology without sentimentality: Jeremiah’s hidden ark, the overshadowing glory cloud, and why reverence for Mary clarifies, rather than distracts from, the Incarnation. We trace the branch from Jesse through Nazareth, the bread of the presence through David to the Eucharist, and Nathaniel’s fig tree across the prophets. Typology isn’t trivia; it’s how Scripture trains our eyes to see Christ fulfilling every promise. And because grace aims at real life, we talk about family prayer, small rituals that carry children through hard years, and the demanding joy of fatherhood as priestly leadership—authority as sacrifice, not dominance.

If you’ve felt disoriented by church conflicts or exhausted by constant outrage, Advent offers a better way: return to the story, receive the King, and let the calendar shape your days. Come hear how heaven “colonizes” earth through the Church, why obedience grows from grace, and how the Kingdom breaks into ordinary homes through beauty, memory, and the sacraments. Subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review to help more listeners find thoughtful, faith-filled conversations that spark real devotion.

Chapters

• 0:30 Advent Focus Over Hot Takes
• 2:20 Upcoming Guests And Schedule
• 3:28 House Of David Sparks Old Testament Deep Dive
• 5:35 Liturgical Calendar And Apocalyptic Readings
• 9:30 Sponsor Shoutouts And Support Options
• 14:40 Why Catholics Should Read The Old Testament
• 20:10 Frank Turek Clip And Defining Heresy
• 23:20 The Kingdom Is Here: Church As Fulfillment
• 30:10 Temple, Eucharist, And New Exodus
• 37:20 Genealogies, Jesse’s Stump, And Nazareth
• 43:30 Nathaniel, The Fig Tree, And Prophetic Echoes
• 50:40 Cana, Stone Jars, And Creation Pattern
• 58:40 Faith, Obedience, And Transformation
• 1:05:10 Holding Faith During Church Confusion
• 1:12:00 Family Stories, Rosary, And Passing On Faith
• 1:22:30 Mary’s Sorrow And The Mission’s Hour

Transcript

SPEAKER_05: 0:30

Yeah, this this wasn't like um something we could have given Taffy something topical on.

SPEAKER_04: 0:37

No, not so much.

SPEAKER_05: 0:40

There uh there are some topical things going on, but um it's Advent, and um I I kind of feel like we should be discussing the faith and doing something a little deeper during during Advent and not you know jumping into biggest story of the day, things like that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00

So it would be nice change of pace.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04

I think the last few episodes have been good though.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07

They have, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:08

Like the last few have been kind of, you know. I mean, obviously we're covering the JQ stuff, and and we have um e Michael Jones on Thursday, then next Tuesday, Michael Hitchbourne. Um, uh there's not gonna be a show next Thursday because I'll be away. Um, and then I think I'm trying to get Daniel O'Connor on. I tried to get Joshua Charles on tonight, but I don't think we're scholarly enough for him, and he's too good for us now, so he blew us off.

SPEAKER_04: 1:36

I mean, he's always been too good for us, he just realized it.

SPEAKER_05: 1:40

He uh he said he was busy tonight and he couldn't come on. Um, I've okay, so I a few things. I've been watching the the show House of David, which you haven't seen yet, right? No, not yet. This freaking show is good, man. It's good. It made me it made me want to go back and read like all of the old testament. So I'm trying to not do Bible in a year, I'm trying to do Bible in Advent. And I'm trying to, I'm trying to get through all of it in Advent. But then I'm also getting like I I got I got distracted because Joe Rogan started talking about um uh the book of Enoch. So I was reading the book of Enoch mix, and I'm just I'm just my brain feels like it's going to explode. I have so many things going through my mind thinking about stuff, but I figured we would jump in with that Frank Turk tweet that I sent to the telegram because this is kind of what I what gave me the idea for the show, but especially with all the things I've been reading and going through, and how much Protestants oh, first off, just just how vile Protestants are during Advent is really unnerving to me. Really all the time, but yeah, yeah, especially if it feels like during Advent they especially feel the need to like go at the Blessed Virgin, and it's it's a time of the year where we're supposed to be reflecting on the most um like the most miraculous event in human history where God becomes man, and instead of them revering the woman who God comes to us through, it's like they just they just can't help themselves. I I don't know, it's just the constant Mary wasn't Mary was a virgin until just the constant onslaught of so many of them are either Aryan or Nestorian in nature that they really don't even understand you know the the um the incarnation in itself, yeah. That but that's right. So like this this inability to actually meditate on what is happening during advent. And you saw it especially when they started. I saw one of the Protestant pastors on Monday said, What did your pastor preach from this past Sunday? And it makes you think about how amazing the liturgical calendar is.

SPEAKER_04: 4:14

At least the traditional one, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 4:17

But they're kind of aligned during Advent.

SPEAKER_04: 4:21

During, yeah, yeah, they are.

SPEAKER_05: 4:22

They're kind of aligned during Advent. The the the traditional uh readings and the Novus Ordo readings are pretty similar. I mean, there might be a different reading this week, and then they pick that one up next week in the Novus Ordo. But we're we're reflecting on the end of the world, right? So you're going through Matthew 24, um, and you're you're you're you're anticipating the coming of Christ in as a as a child, and you're also anticipating the second coming of Christ, or really the third coming of Christ, because he comes to us in the Eucharist at every mass. But um, but the liturgical calendar is such a treasure that the church has because you understand the rhythms of how you're supposed to live the faith, it brings you through these seasons, and I was thinking about that while reading the book of Enoch because it's talking about the principalities that are governing the world and how the sun rises, and it's really a principality that makes the sun rise because there really are just intelligences, and man, there's just so much going on in the world right now. Let's do the Frank Turek thing first.

SPEAKER_04: 5:31

Let's take care of all of our house cleaning, house clean, yeah, housekeeping stuff.

SPEAKER_05: 5:37

Okay, so we we actually just somebody just reached out to us. We're not gonna announce yet, but somebody just reached out to us to advertise. We're hoping that one comes through. We'll see what that is. But for now, we do still have Reckus and sellers, and we do love Recus and sellers.

SPEAKER_04: 5:52

They are put a little bit more respect on their name.

SPEAKER_05: 5:55

Very big supporters of Avoiding Babylon. The only sponsor now they're all we have, they're they're all we have at the moment. They are the first real business that was willing to sponsor us. Um, reccues and sellers use code based at checkout for 10% off. We should get them to do a Christmas sale, Rob. We should because I because I think people would want to bring a nice bottle of wine to their Christmas dinner.

SPEAKER_04: 6:22

I I brought four bottles to my Thanksgiving. I well, I forget, I didn't tell you the story, I told Adrian the story. So I bring four bottles to my my cousin's house for Thanksgiving, and then we have like 50, 60 of us there from my mom's side, and um, you know, most of us on that side are well, we were all nominally Catholic. There's a few still practicing like me, but but anyways, my cousin who is um who travels a lot, her and her husband had gone to the Vatican at some point during Francis Francis's pontificate. Anyways, I bring out the wine, and you know, they see that it's it's Catholic themed. And uh my my cousin's husband goes, Hold on, hold on. I got something perfect for this. Let me bring out the pulpener. I'm like, the pulpener? The popner? What what is the popener? It is exactly what you think it is. It's a bottle opener that looks like pop printers. It's a bottle opener with Pope Rantis on it.

SPEAKER_05: 7:18

I'm like, well, first off, it's not exactly perfect because this is a wine bottle, not a it doesn't have a pot, but the it's uh the kitschiness of the Vatican is like when you go to those gift shops and stuff, it's pretty bad.

SPEAKER_04: 7:34

But but they all they they all love the the wine, and my cousins like she'll go to Napa Valley and stuff for wine, so she loved it, and that means it's pretty good stuff.

SPEAKER_05: 7:45

It it really is amazing wine. Uh, they're an awesome Catholic family, they support everything we do, even when we dive into the muck at times. But um, yeah, please go support them. They are also uh fruit, a fruit farm. Um, and they should they if they don't ship wine to your state, they do ship fruit to your state. So go check them out. We love artists and sellers.

SPEAKER_04: 8:08

Think about it. They basically had a guarantee that they could never get Lila Rose. Uh you know, they could never sponsor her, they could sponsor us.

SPEAKER_05: 8:16

No way, definitely not. They are not Catholics.

SPEAKER_04: 8:20

I mean, they could even make a rose wine just for that, and she'd be like, No way.

SPEAKER_05: 8:24

That would guys, you dropped the ball. I have to be honest. Yeah, you guys could advertise on Lila Rose's podcast with a rose, probably a wine mom. Uh um, that and also look, it's the end of the year, and I know every one of these other Catholic shows are doing this, so we're gonna do it. Um, we're gonna put it up.

SPEAKER_04: 8:47

He means grift harder.

SPEAKER_05: 8:48

Yeah, look, the thing is, Rob and I want to continue doing this. Um, we just spent a ton of money setting up an LLC and getting our businesses business set up. So if you guys want to do a little end-of-the-year Christmas gift for us, Rob set something up on the website. You guys could throw a little tip our way, a little bonus.

SPEAKER_04: 9:06

Um, uh this QR code will bring you right to it. And it's um you bit well, if you don't use the QR code or the link I just put in the chat, you just go to www.avovoidingbabylon.com and you click on the donate link, and that will bring you to this page. And I set this up in 10 minutes, so I'm sorry, but you can only do it in five dollar increments. So it starts off with five. If you want 50, you gotta do 10 quantity of five dollars. Oh my gosh. I told you I did it 10 minutes before the show.

SPEAKER_05: 9:45

He'll get that fixed though. We'll figure that out. I'll figure it out. Yeah, we'll figure that out, we'll get that fixed.

SPEAKER_04: 9:51

But listen, the thing is this is this goes directly to us. Yeah, middleman.

SPEAKER_05: 9:56

There's no there's no YouTube taking 30 from us or locals taking 30. So if you guys do enjoy the show, we do put a lot into it. I had a day from hell today. I worked in status.

SPEAKER_04: 10:07

Thank you very much, Rob. Oh, um, yeah, I was gonna announce this too. With the traveling in the lat the my schedule the last two days, I don't think I'm gonna do the advent meditations because I'm three days behind. I'm gonna be traveling later this month. I think I'll do Sunday meditations for the second, third, and fourth Sundays. That's probably all I can really give you guys. So sorry about that.

SPEAKER_05: 10:33

No, but what we're going to do, we're going to try and do some deeper shows during Advent. So even tonight, like uh the yeah, we have that. I'm I'm going to tell you guys now. We have kind of like a okay. I'm good, but um, well, we could just do a review of the show, but I'm going to give you guys my review tonight of it.

SPEAKER_04: 10:54

Um, I think we should do episodes like we did The Chosen.

SPEAKER_05: 10:58

It this show is so much better than The Chosen, it's not even comparable. It is I it is done at a level um like it it feels like an HBO series that if it wasn't about a biblical series you would watch week to week gripped. That's how well it's done. It's very well acted. The accents aren't nearly as as over the top as the chosen. It's it's a really well done series, but it sparked in me this desire to go back and read first and second Samuel, and then I got into right now.

SPEAKER_04: 11:34

Um I just finished first what are we? A bunch of modernists here. What first and second Samuel's is first and second kings, and that first and second kings is third and fourth kings.

SPEAKER_05: 11:46

Oh, I don't have that in my Bible. I don't know. I gotta get isn't the Dewey Reams. I just have the app. I don't know. Oh, okay. I'm just reading it on the I think I used the EWTN Bible app. I don't know. My wife actually just ordered me the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible for Christmas, so we'll I'm gonna get that. But um it made me want to go back and read first and second Samuel, which I did. Then I got through first kings. I like I I just finished reading about Samuel building, I mean uh Solomon building the temple and stuff, but there's so many things in the show that you pick up on that you recognize from the gospels that uh we'll get into on after the strangter clip.

SPEAKER_04: 12:23

So like it actually shows typology and stuff in the show.

SPEAKER_05: 12:26

Oh, it does. Well, well, you can't help it. If you're showing the story of David, all you see is Christ, like it's this constant barrage of just seeing the the foreshadowing of Christ coming, you know. If you if you're if you have a mind to pay attention to it, right? But it also made me want to go back and read the psalms, it made me go back and read Isaiah. I've been I've been all over the place just actually reading at night before bed, and it's pretty awesome because we suck as Catholics at reading the Bible, but it brings the New Testament to life when you know the old testament, and the things that Jesus is doing, even even the the boring genealogy in Matthew, when you understand the old testament and you see the descendants in in first and second Samuel, and then in first and second kings, and you see that Christ is the divinic king, the descendant of David, it just brings everything to life, and and understanding that the prophecy in Isaiah about a a branch will come from the shoot, uh a branch will come from the stump of Jesse. And knowing that the the David is a son is the son of Jesse, and God promises David that he will have this everlasting kingdom, but then the kingdom gets snuffed out after the after the northern kingdom breaks off and the Assyrians come in, and then the Babylonians come in, and you just there's a total snuffing out of the Davidic line. And you read in uh Isaiah, he says a a branch will come from the stump of Jesse. And then then you have to think about that Jesus comes from Nazareth, and Nazareth means branch. Different from Lazarus. Yes, Nazareth means branch. And all these different things are just you're seeing that the Davidic line is snuffed out, and then a shoot like a shoot pops out of the stump, and the Davidic line is reinstated. So I want let's do the let's do the I did see um uh a tweet this week that um made a good point that I had never thought of before.

SPEAKER_04: 14:46

You have you know obviously uh the the gospels show us how how Christ is in the line of David, right? Um, through both Mary and Joseph uh on both sides. If as Protestants believe, Jesus had brothers. Why did the like yeah, that that that's why were there not divinic kings after him?

SPEAKER_05: 15:08

That is my friend Lewis's uh thread. Yes, my friend Lewis put that thread out, who's in the chat right now, by the way. Is he? Um Lewis is in the chat right now, and he had actually spoken to Mr. Casey because he started laying this out. Mr. Casey contacted him and he dm'd and he said, Lewis, I want you got to put this in a thread and really lay it out. And and Lewis put the whole thread out. It was like very well done. Now, Lewis is I I think he's still a catechumen, like he's he's becoming Catholic this coming Easter. Um, he's one of my favorite people. Uh, he's if you ever see his food reviews, they're pretty amazing. I uh I can't bring myself to actually watch, they're pretty amazing, but uh, I was even so I have a group chat for my um for my excribers.

SPEAKER_04: 15:58

Throw a throw a link to that tweet in the chat for everyone if you can.

SPEAKER_05: 16:02

Um, so I have a I have a group chat for my ex-subscribers that we all talk with each other and stuff, and I was telling them about reading the old testament. And TLM Ryan, who's been on this show, he's like, I've I've I've never really read a lot of the old testament, too, and I blame that entirely on the old testament because it's very tedious at times. Like there are times where the old testament gets tedious.

SPEAKER_04: 16:24

I just love how not even your business partner gets in your your X Group chat.

SPEAKER_05: 16:28

You gotta subscribe on X group.

SPEAKER_04: 16:29

I have to pay you to get into your X group chat. That is egregious and unbelievable.

SPEAKER_05: 16:36

You don't want to be you get enough of me. You know, you do not need another group chat with me. No, I do not. Um, so but we yeah, we we we discuss we discuss a lot of things in there, but yeah, Ryan was like, Yeah, I'm I'm I the like a lot of the guys in the group chat are starting to read the old testament because of the stuff we've been talking about and stuff. But let's go. Let's let's finally get to the Frank Turk tweet because he discusses what is a heresy in this. It he does discuss dispensationalism and the Jews. We're not gonna do the Jew thing tonight because we have EMJ on Thursday and we'll be we'll just be discussing the Jews plenty with my love how right behind him is uh is a screen capture from a Catholic film, a Catholic film.

SPEAKER_04: 17:21

These people are they that oblivious?

SPEAKER_06: 17:25

All right, let's let's listen.

SPEAKER_03: 17:26

Over the last couple months, I've basically been on online a lot, as most Zoomers are. Um, and I've seen a really large faction on the right go anti-Israel.

SPEAKER_04: 17:36

But what's been trust me, dude, you are not that faction of the right.

SPEAKER_03: 17:40

I can tell just from looking at you.

SPEAKER_04: 17:43

That is not the base Zoomers I know.

SPEAKER_03: 17:46

And concerning me the most has been I've seen this growing faction in Christendom that's basically kind of starting to pounce on what you would call a dispensationalist or Christian Zionist perspective, yeah, you know, labeling it heresy and stuff like that. And at first I thought it was just like, you know, social media distortion, whatever the usual Nick Fuentes types, but I've had friends and family members even tell me that, you know, holding any sort of Christian Zionist or dispensationalist perspectives is like straight up Christian heresy. And I'm used to hearing that from Catholics and stuff, but like now that I'm hearing like who are seemingly ardent, you know, fellow Protestant believers, evangelical saying this, like I guess I'm wondering, what do you where do you think this is coming from? And what do you think is the best way to handle that as an evangelical Christian? That yeah, maybe not I'm not necessarily a dispensationalist, but I don't think it's good to label that heresy.

SPEAKER_02: 18:38

Right. Well, a good question to ask them is what is a heresy?

SPEAKER_05: 18:42

Yeah, and and because that is a good question to ask. What is a heresy? Because a heresy is is that which does not line up with Catholic doctrine, and it has always been what heresy is. If you do not align with the church's doctrine or dogma, you are a heretic. But it's funny to listen to Protestants discuss heresy, and I just thought when he said that's a good well, what is a heresy? Now listen to what his opinion of heresy is, because the biggest heresy is the one he says is not a heresy.

SPEAKER_02: 19:22

You don't it's all the scriptura.

SPEAKER_05: 19:25

No, even worse.

SPEAKER_02: 19:26

Okay. When it comes to eschatology, the only true heresy is preterism, which means people who think that everything that happened in the Bible, including the book of Revelation, has already happened, that Jesus has already come and set up his kingdom. It's quite obviously he hasn't. Okay. The other eschatological viewpoint is not a heresy. And people who are Bible believers and scholars will argue over is it dispensationalism, is it historic dispensationalism, you know, is it preterism, partial preterism, is it, you know, postmillennialism, all millennial, you know, all these different viewpoints. Is there a rapture? Is there not a rapture? I just tell people look, I'm not on the planning committee, I'm on the welcoming committee. All right.

SPEAKER_03: 20:17

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05: 20:17

And when Jesus comes back, I'll welcome it because the main point I wanted to bring up, first off, uh thank you, Mimi. You are amazing. We love you. Um, the the main point I don't know what praetorism is because I really don't know is like he said, it's the belief that um that revelation was written by John and it already took place, right?

SPEAKER_04: 20:42

Like 6666 is referring only to Nero Caesar, things like that.

SPEAKER_05: 20:48

But the main issue with what he said was is that the kingdom has not come and Jesus did not set up his kingdom. Because if you say that Jesus did not set up his kingdom, you are calling him a liar because the whole gospel itself the kingdom is at hand, repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand, right? And going back and reading the old testament, especially once you get because the whole the whole like the book of Genesis and Exodus are are leading up to this uh Davidic dynasty. Now, when you start seeing the Davidic dynasty like come into come into shape, and all of these uh promises that are made to David, to say that Christ did not set up his kingdom is to call him a liar. It it really is. So Christ Christ promises the kingdom, and what we get is the church. So there's there's uh Protestants who actually believe that there is a gap from Christ's ascension until he'll set up his kingdom at the end of time. But no, the whole point of what Jesus is saying is that heaven is colonizing earth. Yeah, that that yes, his his kingdom he is a new Solomon, like he he's constantly talking about who who is the first person in the Bible to be called a son of God? It's Solomon. Like Solomon, so David's a like Saul is anointed, David's anointed, but Solomon, when he's anointed, God calls him his son, like you are my son. He's the first one to be called his son. Now, God does say, tell Pharaoh, Israel is my firstborn son, but that's kind of a collective thing. But the first person in scripture to be called the son of God is Solomon. He's like the first little sea Christ. And you see, Jesus, when he goes in and he's like, tear down this temple, and in three days I will build it up. He's saying, I am the new Solomon, I am, I am the descendant of David, and I'm going to set up my kingdom. And he does when he rebuilds the temple of his body, like that that that whole understanding of what the temple is in the Old Testament, because I just listened to the building of the temple by Solomon. And it's one of the funniest things when you think about all the all the um hand wringing that Protestants do about us and our images, because if you read about the images that Solomon is making them put into the temple about these winged angels that their wingspans are 10 cubits wide and it goes from wall to wall in the Holy of Holies, yeah. Uh feeling led from Baptist to Catholic, and there's so much deeper theology, but so much to unlearn. So, well that what that's kind of what we're going to get into tonight to to really help you see how these things that we're seeing in the in the gospel is Jesus showing how he is the fulfillment of the Davidic lineage, and that's why they're they're yelling, son of David, son of David, heal me, you know. They're they all see him as the descendant of David, and he does set up his kingdom, but his kingdom is a Eucharistic kingdom. So when you when you know what the temple is for the Jews, it is they're everything. There's only there's tons of pagan temples throughout the world during this time, right? But Jupiter has 20 different temples to Jupiter, you know, and and uh you know, name whatever Mars has temples to Mars, but there's multiple, but there's only one temple in in Judaism or it for Israel, and that's the temple, and it has the holy of holies that's that only the high priest can go in once a year. And it if you're a Jew anywhere in the world, you have to come back to to ju to to Jerusalem for the Passover, or your firstborn son dies. Like you can't just be a Jew out and about in the world, you need to be in Jerusalem at the time of the Passover to sacrifice your lamb to to celebrate the Passover. What Christ is doing throughout the entire New Testament is setting up a new uh Passover and a new exodus. When he when you go to the scene where Jesus at the Transfiguration and he's there with uh Elijah and uh Moses, he is discussing with them uh his new exodus. Right? So so Moses is taking them uh from slavery in Egypt into the promised land, Christ is taking us from slavery to sin to freedom. It's this idea that the gospel is just believe in Jesus and you will go to heaven is such a narrow uh minuscule view, and it doesn't at all account for everything God did.

SPEAKER_04: 25:54

And no, and in a sense, you can you could say the like the Exodus, the the wandering in the desert for 40 years is is a prefigurement of of purgatory, right? They couldn't enter wandering in the desert, they couldn't enter the holy land until that generation had been purged, basically.

SPEAKER_05: 26:13

Um yeah, the the thing is like every once in a while I I get these um like with the liturgical calendar, yeah. The liturgical calendar is amazing though because every year around Advent and every year around Lent, it's the church knows that we have these seasons in life where you kind of you drift, you know, that the that you need these times of penance to kind of gather your faith back together because you kind of get distracted by the the the the regularness of life and you know how how mundane everything is, and God really does set my heart on fire every Advent and every Lent. And going back and reading the story, especially, it makes you think about like what God really did. And especially that time period where the where the kingdom of Israel is split and the Davidic line is crushed, and the the Babylonians come in, they destroy the temple. There's a period where everyone had to feel like God lied, like what he made these promises that this Davidic kingdom will be everlasting, and then they just the whole thing just got snuffed out, and it was there was nothing. And especially for us as Catholics, like what one of the big things that you really pick up on when you're going through first and second Samuel is David, even though God anoints him and tells him he's going to be king, Saul is still alive, and David is just loyal to Saul, no matter what Saul does. Saul tries to kill him multiple times, like it's pretty pretty crazy how many times Saul tries to kill David. And David, there's there's a scene where he's Saul is sleeping in a cave, and David tears off a piece of his garment, and then he's standing out on the hill and he's like, Look, I could have killed you. I'm so loyal to you, Saul. I would never, you know. There's another time he he goes in and he steals his spear where he was alone with with Saul and he could have put the spear through his heart, and he doesn't. He just takes the spear and shows him, Look, I was alone with you, I could have killed you. This period where they lose everything. Any one of them could have been tempted to just go, man, this whole story was just bunk, it was just nonsense. And I feel like we're kind of living through a period like that in the church right now, where like the church doesn't have all of its not everything is as certain as it once was, and it kind of you know, we're we're like, what's going on with papal infallibility here? You know, we've seen some shady shady stuff over the we said the S word. We've seen some shady stuff over the past couple of pontificates. What's going on here? But I think it's a test of faith for a lot of us, and like just just seeing what God did in that time where there it was very easy to to just go, man. This the story was no way, but to remain faithful during those times is such a an amazing thing, and I'm telling you, God liked my heart up twice a year, and it's always when I need it the most because I'm just kind of distracted and not paying attention to things, and it it's it's um it's important that we go back and remember the story. So um going through the genealogies in Matthew will will look you'll have more meaning there. Um going to uh even oh man, in John 2, when John meets Nathaniel, it reminded me of you when I was reading it today. What Philip goes to Nathaniel and he goes, Come and Come and meet uh come man, you might have to pull John 2 up so I get it.

SPEAKER_04: 30:03

Okay, let me pull it up.

SPEAKER_05: 30:05

Pull John 2 up.

SPEAKER_04: 30:06

Do you remember the argument that we had back in the trivia days about Nathaniel? About Nathaniel, who it was that was it Nathaniel and Bartholomew, right?

SPEAKER_05: 30:17

Yeah, yeah. Um John chapter 2. Is that where's the calling of Nathaniel? Is that John three?

SPEAKER_04: 30:25

Uh two is the scourge.

SPEAKER_05: 30:27

What was it? Wait. Oh, it's John one. It's John one. So Philip found Nathaniel and said to him, We have found him of whom Moses and the law, Moses and the law, and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph. Nathaniel said to him, Can anything good come out of Nazareth? It made me think of you going, Can anything out of Long Island?

SPEAKER_04: 30:48

Or just my skepticism in general.

SPEAKER_05: 30:52

But that but that line is actually important to to know what's going on there. It's Philip is saying Nathaniel's saying, can anything good come out of Nazareth? But that's a reference to the shoot of Jesse because or the branch of from the stump, like that Jesus is from the stump, right? And um, and then uh Jesus saw Nathaniel coming and he said, Behold, this is an Israelite in whom there is no guile. Nathaniel said, How do you know me? And Jesus said, Before Philip called you when you were under the fig tree, I saw you. Nathanael answers him, Rabbi, you're the son of God, you're the king of Israel. And it's like, Wait, I saw you under the fig tree, and that you that now he's the he's the messiah. Like, what do you mean? Like he could have just saw you or something. But all of these are references to the old testament. Um, like uh, let's see. Um especially that one. Hold on, that's a that's an important one. Oh man, where'd I put it? I wrote it down so I wouldn't forget. So um in Isaiah 11, uh, Isaiah 11:1, there shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse, and a branch shall grow out of its roots, and the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord. Like that is that is a direct reference to that shoot, right? And then the there's something from Zechariah too. I gotta find that out.

SPEAKER_04: 32:31

Start at verse eight. Okay, give me a second, let me pull it up.

SPEAKER_05: 32:34

Zechariah three, verse three.

SPEAKER_04: 32:38

Uh hear, O Jesus, thou high priest, thou and thy friends that dwell before thee, for they are portending men. For behold, I will bring my servant the Orient. For behold, the stone that I have laid before Jesus, upon one stone there are seven eyes. Behold, I will grave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will take away the iniquity of that land in one day. Okay, that day.

SPEAKER_05: 33:04

Well, I was gonna say, like, so he's telling Nathaniel, you're an Israelite in whom there is no guile. Now, I think if you keep going, he to he it gets to where the fig tree, right?

SPEAKER_04: 33:15

And that day saith the Lord of hosts, every man shall call his friend under the vine and under the fig tree, under the fig tree.

SPEAKER_05: 33:21

So, like Nathaniel, Jesus is like, I saw you under the fig tree, and Nathaniel's like, You're the son of God, and it's it's like that's kind of a crazy response to just saying I saw you under the fig tree, but all of these are allusions to the old testament. So if if you what did you read, did you read from Micah? No, what's that?

SPEAKER_04: 33:39

Okay, so so Micah uh chapter four, um uh starting in verse three, and he shall judge among many people and rebuke strong nations afar off, and they shall beat their swords and a plowshares and their spears and the spades. Nation shall not take sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore, and every man shall sit under his vine and under his fig tree, and there shall be none to make them afraid, for the mouth of the Lord of hosts hath spoken.

SPEAKER_05: 34:08

There's so there's all these references, right? So the the point is when when you hear Protestants talk about the gospel just being like this heaven, like like just believe the right thing and you go to heaven. It's such an underestimation of what God really did. And in setting up that kingdom, his spirit covers the earth and it and and the gentile hearts are circumcised and throughout the entire world, like all of the pagan nations submit to Christ the King. To say his kingdom hasn't been set up, like that is one of the most damnable heresies ever. Because the whole point is that his kingdom is set up. So when you see these Catholic cathedrals that they they always will say, why doesn't the church give its money away? It's like, no, no, no, you're looking at a castle of the king on earth because heaven colonized earth, and which literally includes a seat of the successor of the apostles, which is basically a throne of heaven, like you literally have a throne of heaven sitting there in that building on earth, and and Christ tells the apostles you will sit upon thrones as principalities judging the 12 tribes of Israel. Like this stuff is so important to miss it. You're just missing everything God really did. And it's not it's not just about heaven, it's about it's about it's about now, right? It's it's like to to man, they have such such a a hang up.

SPEAKER_04: 35:52

Yeah, because because the kingdom isn't just heaven, right? It's not just at the end of time, um, you know, it's because the the kingdom is the church, and the church has the church triumphant in heaven, the church suffering in purgatory, and the church militant here on earth. Like the kingdom has been established here on earth, it has been established 100%, and it's also in our lives.

SPEAKER_05: 36:13

Like, how are we bringing about the kingdom because we serve the king and everything we do? We're we're a representative of the king, like the whole idea of baptism and taking on the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Like, you're doing that because you've just received divine adoption, because the gospel is really about divine adoption, right? Like it's it's it's yeah, it's everything, especially when we went through Genesis and we're learning about the birthright, supposed to go to the firstborn, and it ends up going to the second born, which is a symbol of the birthright supposed to go to Israel, but it ends up going to the Gentile nations. But it's really about the birthright that's supposed to go to the Son of God, Christ Himself. We now have an inheritance in that. Like that, that Christ is our brother, and that we have an inheritance with the Father now, that everything he had for his son is now going to be ours.

SPEAKER_04: 37:14

Just like how how Joseph, who was the Joseph of the Old Testament, was a precursor of Christ, shared everything he had in the kingdom of Egypt with his his brothers.

SPEAKER_05: 37:34

But I'm trying to get through, I'm trying to get in during Advent. I want to finish first and second chronicles, and I want to get through all the prophets, and I want to get through Maccabees because Maccabees is the period leading up, it's like what is it, a hundred years before Christ, right? Some somewhere around there, yeah. A little more than that, maybe, but like you know, a hundred or two hundred years before Christ. Because when you're thinking about the like David, David's like a thousand years before Christ. So all these promises are being made. 700, I think. Yeah. I mean, it has to be it has to be 800, right? Because if the if the northern kingdom is is separated for 700 years, right? It's probably it's probably like 900 years, like Isaiah's prophesying like 900 years before Christ. Yeah, right. So if you even look at the beginning of uh the Passion, it's like 900 BC, and it's and it says Isaiah 53, he was pierced for our transgressions. So yeah, so David's David's almost a thousand years before Christ, that these promises are being made, but they just unfold so slowly. But the scenes in in the house of David where Samuel goes and takes rips the kingdom away from Saul, and then you have the scene where Saul tells David to go get all the foreskins of the Philistines, and I'm like, how are they gonna handle this? David walks in and just drops a bag of foreskins on the throne. It's pretty cool, but um, not just that, there's there's a scene, I think it might be in John's gospel, where Jesus is walking with the apostles through a green field and they're picking heads of grain, and the Pharisees come to him and accuse him because they're they're eating on the Sabbath. And Jesus says to them, Have you not read about when David and his men eat the bread of the presence? Like they're there, they so there they show that scene in in the house of David, and I remembered it from the gospel where Jesus is telling this to the Pharisees. Like, have you not read when David and his men are are on the run from Saul and like they're bring that bring that up. I want to hear exactly what Jesus says because I wait, where? Uh where like uh it's probably in John's gospel, but they're picking green, they're picking green on the Sabbath, and Jesus uh maybe if you search the words, um have you not read when David uh come on guys, anybody in the chat know this one?

SPEAKER_04: 40:07

Is it where he says the fields are ripe for harvest?

SPEAKER_05: 40:11

No, no, about David and his men. Uh I'll find it. Sorry guys, this wasn't really well planned out. Let me see here. Um it should be Matthew 12.3. Matthew 12.

SPEAKER_04: 40:31

Let me pull it up. Okay, um go back a little, because yeah, I go and they're accusing him, so we know the context. At that time Jesus went through the corn on the Sabbath, and his disciples being hungry began to pluck the ears and to eat. And the Pharisees, seeing them, said to him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do on the Sabbath days. And he said to them, Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, and they that were with him? How he entered into the house of God and did eat the loaves, loaves of proposition, which it was not lawful for him to eat, nor nor for them that were with him, but for the priests only? Or have ye not read in the law that on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are without blame? But I tell you that there is here a greater than the temple. And if you knew what this meaneth, I will have mercy and not sacrifice, you wouldn't have never condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.

SPEAKER_05: 41:58

So they've all been clean. But what Jesus is telling the Pharisees is I am the son of David, like you're gonna tell me what I can and can't do on the Sabbath. This is a Catholic channel, we're not allowed to read the Bible. Well, the the the reason I'm getting at this is because I do think Catholics uh in general don't read scripture nearly enough. And excitement for the old testament brings the new testament to life, and as you're reading through these things in the new testament, if you don't know, look that it's it God set it up in a way where if you just pick up the gospel of John and read it, you can have this amazing illumination of heart, and you're going to fall on your knees and fall in love with Christ. But the stories have so much more meaning when you know everything that happens. So, I mean, it really I'm I'm trying to challenge everybody to go back and read all this stuff because I've I read through Genesis, I read through Exodus, and this still these little phrases that you're that you see as you're reading, and you'll go, man, that's what was going on there. Like when Jesus trained uh uh uh turns the water into wine, there's so much going on there, right? Like, there's so much going on when Jesus turns water into wine. It's an allusion to Exodus, right? So what does Moses do with the plagues? He turns water into blood, right? But he doesn't just turn water into blood. It's not, I mean, it's not he doesn't just turn the Nile into blood, he turns the Nile into blood, and the stone jars that are filled with water also turn to blood. And Jesus takes the stone jars and turns that water into wine, and then give it a little time and see what he does with that wine, because that wine then becomes his blood, right? So, what Jesus is doing at that first miracle is an allusion to Exodus, it's also an allusion to um if you go into Numbers, it talks about if you touch the body of a dead corpse, you have to do a ritual cleansing with these stone water jars that are filled with water on the third day and the seventh day in order to be clean. Now, if you're going through John's gospel, you're reading in the beginning, and that's the first day, and then it says, and then the next day, John the Baptist is preaching, and then the next day he meets Nathaniel, and then the next day, and then he says on the third day was the wedding at Cana. Right. So now what you have is for if you start at the beginning, it's uh in the beginning is day one, it runs up four days, and then Jesus, and then John says, and on the third day was the wedding at Cana. So you have four days plus three, right? So now the ritual cleansing has to be done on the third day and the seventh day. But what you're looking at is the story of creation happening in John's gospel in the beginning was the word. And if you go to Genesis, in the beginning the world was formless and void. Then God said, Let there be light. You're seeing these allusions to the story of Genesis, you're seeing these allusions to the story of Exodus, you're seeing you're seeing John writing the Gospel of John, understanding the story so thoroughly, and he's watching everything Jesus does and showing how he doesn't just fulfill the prophecies of the suffering servant in Isaiah, it's like every little thing God is doing in the Old Testament is a preparation for the coming of Christ. That when God says, In the you know, in the in the beginning the world was foremost and void, and then he says, Let there be light. Now, when John's saying in the beginning was the work, the the point is that first of all on the seventh day of creation, you have the Sabbath, but it's the it you have the the marriage of Adam and Eve, and that also lines up with the wedding of Cana. So you're looking at the new Adam and the new Eve, you're looking at that allusion to Genesis, you're looking at the fact that God, as God is giving you even the Genesis story, it's not like Christ is plan B. The whole thing is Christ in mind from the beginning. That our redemption is in God's mind from the beginning. Like it's that's why we say, oh, happy fall, right? Or like oh is a happy fault or happy fall. Like, like Adam's Adam's fall is a good thing because of what God does with the bad thing, like the that we are now elevated not just to where Adam was in the garden, but we're elevated to a height even higher because we are now co-heirs with Christ. That what God actually has in store for us is infinitely better than what God had for Adam and Eve in the garden. Oh happy fold, yeah. Um and the final wedding will be the wedding supper of the lamb. Like all there's just there's just such a um, there's just so much more going on than just Ephesians 8 in, you know, and and trying to or uh or John 3.16 or or John 3.16 or Romans, whatever like if even if you go through the book of Romans, Paul isn't just talking about he yes, he's talking about faith and works, right? And he's and he's like, uh, we are justified by faith and not works, but that entire epistle is about the obedience of faith. It's not just about faith. And if you and if you read the story of David, all of it is about obedience and just being obedient to God, right? So I think St. Augustine said in the old covenant, the law was given so grace we would seek, and then the new covenant we were given grace, so obedience we could keep. And that what God is actually doing in Christ, it's not that Jesus suffered and died for our sins so we wouldn't have to suffer and die. It's like, no, Christ suffers and died to give us the roadmap, and then he gives us the grace to give us the ability to suffer and die and live the way he did. And that salvation is not just this one-time event where you're saved and you go to heaven because you believe the correct thing, it's about your life transforming and and and seeing it in your everyday life that especially when you get your heart on fire for this stuff and you're really excited about God, because we do have those those ebbs and flows in our spiritual life, like they happen to everybody, you know. And especially if you get caught up and paying attention to what's going on in the news and what's happening with the church, and oh my goodness, the Pope said this, and the Pope, like go back to the story and just remember what God did when all of Israel thought the promises could never be kept, because the the 10 northern tribes are so dispersed throughout the nations that it's not even possible to gather them back in. And then God does something so unbelievable that it blows everyone away. And no matter how discouraged you can get with what's happening in the church, like just sit back and just have faith. I I said the other day, I don't care if every single bishop in the church loses faith. I will not, I will not.

SPEAKER_04: 49:11

We we have to be like David and be loyal to the church, even if we have Saul as a Pope.

SPEAKER_05: 49:17

You yes, yes, like that that story really made me think about that. Like, especially us men who are out there talking about obedient wives. Oh, I want my wife to be obedient, and then you're gonna disobey the clergy. Like, I don't care, man. The I look, I honestly, like they were very rough years under Francis, and I still don't know like what the right approach is, and I don't judge anybody that goes and and talks about this stuff. I don't know what the answer is, I don't know if the SETI's are right, I don't know any of it. I just know that God's putting it on my heart to not talk about the clergy right now. Like, just don't, just don't because the measure which you give is the measure you'll receive, and it's very easy to go and look at other people's sins, and it is very hard to look at our own. It is very hard to look at our own. It's like, you know, I I look, I know there's a ton of ton of error out there, and like we do actually have to point out error. Um, but I think as much like especially at this time, especially during Advent, let's just focus on our spiritual lives, let's focus on keeping our families Catholic, because I think that's the biggest challenge we're all facing right now. Is trying trying to trying to raise our families and keep our families in the faith. Because they have all these distractions too.

SPEAKER_04: 50:42

I had um I had a couple of of kind of amazing experiences over the weekend uh in regard to that. Um the first, well, not the first, it was actually technically the second, but the one I'll say first is um we were down in the Twin Cities, Minneapolis and St. Paul, um, over the weekend, and Maddie really loves the Cathedral of St. Paul.

SPEAKER_05: 51:06

Um it it is a it is beautiful that cathedral. I was very happy you took me there.

SPEAKER_04: 51:12

Um so we decided to go to Mass there, you know, even though it's Nova Sordo. And um usually when I go to a Nova Sordo Mass, I have a hard time just not being angry at at everything happening around me. Um but when I'm at the cathedral, I can kind of lose myself in the cathedral itself and I and I don't worry about that as much. Um but uh as we're kneeling there after communion watching watching everyone else receive communion, I noticed that uh that probably 20% of everyone knelt and of those under the age of 40, it was at least 50 percent of people kneeling just on the the the the bare cold stone you know floor um for communion. So that was uh that was awesome to see. Um but the the the better experience, you know, talking about keeping our families in the faith is um the night before we went to visit my grandma, who uh she's 94, and um he she's dying, right? I mean she's 94. Uh who knows if it's gonna be this month or so like this is it's your grandmother or hopes? My my grandma.

SPEAKER_05: 52:36

On your mom's side or your dad's side? On my mom's side, yeah. Your mom, so your mom's mom.

SPEAKER_04: 52:40

Yeah, my mom's mom. Okay, and um, you know, I I've said on the channel before a few times how some of my favorite memories in my whole life are the times like uh we would go camping as a family, and my my mom always brought my grandparents with because they brought her camping as a kid, so she wanted them to experience camping with with their grandkids. So we would all go camping together, and you know, um my grandpa was always the first one to wake up, so he would wake up and I would wake up and uh I'd crawl into bed with my grandma probably eight, nine at the time or whatever. Um, and we would me, my grandma and grandpa would all play the rosary together in the morning before anyone else woke up. You know, those were the memories that that would always pop into my head, especially when I was kind of away from the sacraments. So those memories and and my grandma's continued prayers I definitely credit with bringing me, you know, back to the sacraments and stuff. But so Sunday we go to visit my grandma, who's like I said, is is who knows how long it's gonna be, but she's dying, you know, at some level, anyways. And um, you know, we we brought my kids to visit her. Um we decided to say the rosary. And uh I let Maddie lead, I think, two or three decades. And um usually he's kind of in and out, you know. I mean he's six, and the younger ones are even more in and out, but he was really into it that night. And um and he just he last night when I was talking with him, he just said how that was his favorite part of the whole weekend trip, you know. And it was just just sitting there watching, you know, my my six-year-old pray the rosary with my grandma, just like I used to it.

SPEAKER_05: 54:31

Is what's her mental state? Like, is she was she coherent? Did she know what was going on, or is she kind of out of it?

SPEAKER_04: 54:36

Or she has good days and bad days. This was this was a good day. She knew who we were and knew all the kids' names.

SPEAKER_05: 54:44

94.

SPEAKER_04: 54:46

94, and it's really within the last year where there's been like a noticeable decline and stuff.

SPEAKER_05: 54:53

Yeah, I have those memories too when I was a kid. My mom just sitting upstairs with me and my younger brother praying the rosary, teaching us all our prayers and stuff. They they really those are little graces that do come back later on in your life. So if you guys have little kids, like don't neglect that. It's and especially like man, me and my wife were just thinking about it the other night, it's just like um, like what will what will be our fondest memories in our life when we look back on, and we were both like just when we would wake up in bed and all the little kids would come into bed with us. Like, there's something so precious about that time in your life when all the kids can fit in your bed together because they're all still small enough. And yeah, man, I envy you you guys who have to have little ones, man. I really do. And uh such a such a great time.

SPEAKER_04: 55:39

You don't know what will uh will have an impact like that, you know what what little prayers at different times your kids and grandkids are gonna remember for their whole lives.

SPEAKER_05: 55:50

So yeah, the other the other thing is like you know how we had like these reversion experiences, so like you spent a little a period away gonna go sleep with all the kids. You guys are ruthless, you never let me you never let anything slip. That's too funny. Um, and I bet when you wake up in the morning and they all come running into bed, not they sleep in bed with you. I would never be able to sleep with all of them in bed. You guys are nuts. Um but my so like I I remember having a conversation with my son about this because we we talk about like reversion experiences, and you know, for me it was like that first moment. I think I was driving home from Atlantic City and I just lost like three grand or something, and you know, it's like a really, really bad, bad moment in my life, and I and I'm I'm listening to like Protestant radio, and all of a sudden I'm like, oh Jesus. But my kids were raised in the faith, so my son was constantly seeking that like that unbelievable experience he was gonna have, and I'm like, we I had to like talk to him about it because not everybody has a convert a reversion or a conversion like that. Like if you're raised in the faith, um thank you very much, appreciate it. Um, like if you're if you're raised in the faith and you're taught the faith, like you don't necessarily have to have this spiritual mountaintop high moment, you know, it can just be that you just have this constant presence of God in your life and black chat, black jackets about yeah, no, you're right.

SPEAKER_04: 57:36

It it really is those those little moments that I I lean on, you know, when times are tough. The the the memories of going to um perpetual adoration with my grandparents at midnight on a random Thursday when I was a kid and got to sleep over at their house, you know, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05: 57:52

No, no crazy huge conversion moment, but but you have those memories now, especially because you have little kids and and there's things popping out from your childhood, right? So you you have these things popping out from your childhood, and you're like, okay, that that has managed to stay with me, that memory, like it's it's something very vivid about that about that experience. So now that's the thing that you want to pass on to your kids. This is like you talk about like how do we keep our kids in the faith, especially in a modern world. I know, look, this this is all this trad talk about everybody saying you're gonna homeschool your kids and this and that, but I know a lot of people can't do it, you know, it's just the the fact of the matter. And for those of you who do have your kids that you can't homeschool them and they're not under constant protection and they're out in the world, like the little things you do with them are the things that are the most important because they're that's what they're gonna fall back on when they hit a hard time or something. Like my son, when he got his first car and he totaled his first car within like three months.

SPEAKER_04: 58:51

I remember when that happened.

SPEAKER_05: 58:53

He got his car in December, and then in February, he totaled it, had a head-on collision, and it was it was a really bad accident. And I just remember him like really breaking down and like having a real sense of like the sins he committed in his life, yeah, and made him really reevaluate things, you know. And he wasn't my son's not like yeah, he's not into all stuff like I was tradition.

unknown: 59:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 59:24

Uh yeah, I I had a permit when I totaled the first car, but yeah, he uh he had a had a head-on collision and he just like that that that thing that happened to him made him do some real self-reflection. And now we're at a point where like he's driving into work with me tomorrow. We have a two hour ride together in the car, and I'm gonna throw another Han talk on with him, you know. And the that's another thing, too. If you have if you do have kids, try to make sure you carve out individual time for each one to do little special things where you do get to have one on ones with them because. I remember I grew up in a house with nine kids. And there's especially for families that have a lot of kids. And we talked to um Connor about the uh uh what's Connor Gallagher. Connor Gallagher about this he's got 16 kids. But the the it it could it could easily fall into you're just the dad of a pact, and you don't have enough individual time with each kid to really you know speak to them and and see where they're at. And I remember feeling like that when I was like I felt like I was invisible, yeah, because my parents were so overburdened, they had five kids under the age of seven in the house at one point, you know. So I felt invisible, and a lot of like the lashing out I did as a teenager was largely because I didn't get attention at home. Like I'm a class clown and I'm the loud one and I'm obnoxious, all because it's a coping mechanism from being ignored at home, probably. I don't know, I'm just guessing, but it at the same time, it actually created the personality I have today, and it made it so that I'm able to do a podcast and talk, like we, you know, it but it still is important to only they had spent more one-on-one time with you, yeah, right. What's funny is though, like my mother, my mother would there's not a single one of her kids that don't have like a very personal relationship with her because every one of us go to her with our problems, which kind of brings it back to our lady, right? Because it it happens with my mom and it happens with my wife, and there's we'll we'll bring it back to scripture with this because especially when you when you when you understand what's happening at the wedding of Cana. When Our Lady goes to him and says, They have no wine, and he says, Woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come. Like she understands that what she's doing in that moment is asking him to start his mission to die. She unders she understands it better than anyone, better than anyone, right? So so she is longing for this passion as much as he is, right? So, like like Jesus before the passion, he says to the apostles, I I have longed to celebrate this Passover feast with you guys. Like his heart's yearning is to celebrate this Passover feast with them. And you think about what that means. It's like I've I've my whole life I've been longing to go and suffer and die. Now, our lady has spent 30 years with him at this point, and she knows if she asks him to do this thing, that is the start of his mission, and the clock countdown starts. Now, now, watching the way my mom, when every single one of us would go to my mom with whatever issue we're dealing with at that moment, the burden my mother would bear on her heart. Like, you don't understand. Like, my mom can barely walk at times because oh, Chrissy's going through this right now, Janine's going through this right now, this one's going through that. Like, a mother carries the weight of their child's suffering in a way a father doesn't. I'm sorry. Like, I'm a father, I love my children with my entire being. Something about, I mean, look, let's put it this way: the other day, my daughter's friends had a friends giving and didn't invite my daughter. My daughter was like, whatever, what are you gonna do? I'm not, you know, what am I gonna like? What are you gonna do? My wife was distraught, like, distraught. Like, why are these kids so cruel? How could they leave her out? Like, my wife was a mess, and I'm like, no, she's okay. Like, you know, I have to like be the steady hand and try to ease my wife. But just seeing how women bear their child's suffering in such a unique way, you have to understand what our lady is dealing with in the passion, right? And for and for Protestants to sit there and mock her virginity, put posting memes of a husband and wife making out and and like that meme makes me sick. Like the idea that they they have no idea how holy and and precious our lady is, like it's just man, like that it just it just it's it hurts when I see stuff like that because she is she is the woman, like the like the god of the universe is coming into the world. How the hell do you not get on your knees and say hell? Like you are the one that he chose. Like, I I just don't I don't get the inability to meditate on the incarnation and the and the miraculous event that we're we're talking about here.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:42

And it just it's ironic for uh you know to that to come from a bunch of people who go and pray at the wall of a Roman fort that they think is the remains of a of the second temple, but yet they'll call the literal, you know, uh ark of the new covenant, you know, just a womb.

SPEAKER_05: 1:05:04

That's a that's another thing. I'm so excited to get to Jeremiah, where Jeremiah hides the ark. Jeremiah hides the ark. He like he takes the ark because it's going to get taken by the Babylonians, and he hides it and he says, Let it never be found until God's God's glory cloud comes and rests on it, right? I'm trying to get I'm trying to get through all of this so that I can open the pages of Luke when God's glory cloud comes and rests upon our lady, the new ark of the covenant.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:37

So I assume you think then that the Ethiopians who claim they have the ark are nonsense.

SPEAKER_05: 1:05:42

That ark will never be found. Yeah, I agree. It'll never be found. God will never allow it to be found. God's you have to think about what like if the story's true, it'll never be found. Because God's presence is no longer in that ark. Like God's God's presence goes it the the the glory cloud rests upon our lady, right? And then even the idea when Saint Paul is saying, like, your body is a temple, like your your body is this holy thing because you are where and and not just that, what like what happens in the temple? It's like it's a place of sacrifice, it's a pr place of priestly service. There's there's so much going on with that loaded term that our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, right? Like, there's so much obligation. That's why even when we talked about uh the Michael Matt thing the other day and like this whole thing that's going on with feminism right now. Like, I see I see um like Joe Heshmeyer put out a video, and and Tim Gordon and Joe Enders are going back and forth with him. Like uh I don't I don't think Heshmeyer, I think they're strawmanning Heshmeier a bit, but I also think that Heshmeier is straw manning what what patriarchy is. Like there's no there's no man who really understands what like what what what it means to be a husband and that his wife has to submit to him. None of us are lording that authority over our wives in some dominant way where we look down upon our it's just not reality, but that doesn't change the fact that you as a man have a priestly duty because you are a temple of the Holy Spirit and you actually have to be Christ, and Christ is very masculine, and he does not like you have to you have to think about go back and read the accounts of him encountering the Pharisees and don't think of him as Jonathan Roomy when he's doing it. Like read those accounts, think of him as yeah, read those accounts of Jesus and the authority he speaks with, and understand that you actually have that authority as a man, and it's not something that you should take lightly, it's it's really not, and it's not something you should be, you know, just even wielding irresponsibly, like it is a very, very heavy burden that men have, and it's and it should that should be where you're you're you're working out your salvation with fear and trembling because it it's it's the most it's the most it's the most terrifying responsibility on the planet that you are a husband and a father. It's it's it's scary stuff, man. Because every mistake, you like I have, I just think that I will be judged on the type of husband and father. Like, yeah, we'll be held to account for every word, and I and I'm just I'm going to go in and just say, God, please have mercy on my stupid remarks and my wise ass comments and my sarcasm and stuff. But please tell me I did a good job as a husband and father. Because that is actually how I see myself when he says, I created them in my like let us create man in our image, like that image is the family, like God before he creates anything, God before he makes the heavens and the earth, before he creates anything, he's a family, he's a father and son, and that image that he creates us in is that family. And a husband and wife coming together is like how you participate in creation. So to me, like it's the it's the the most incredible responsibility we have. One year free. So I can handle that. A year, yeah, I can do that in nothing. A year in eternity for each tweet and I tweet a lot. Do you know how much you tweet? I got I got at least five five thousand years in purgatory. Hold on, let's think about it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:39

Let's uh let's pull up Twitter here real quick.

SPEAKER_05: 1:09:42

No, don't even look at it. I'll be in purgatory for a millennium.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:46

And this is just on this one account. How many accounts have you had?

SPEAKER_05: 1:09:49

No, no, no. If you delete the account, you that's like uh it's like getting a um it's like getting a um with why can't I think right now? An indulgence? An indulgence. If you delete the account, you get an indulgence.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:05

Why doesn't that tell me how many times you've tweeted? Does it just stop counting?

SPEAKER_05: 1:10:10

I hope so. I hope so. Your tweets will be erased from far for as far east as is west. I don't know. That's how it works. Yes, it's a plenary indulgence if you delete the account. All right, so we're gonna head over to locals. Uh, we still got plenty of stuff to talk about. I didn't even get to half the stuff I wanted to talk about. We did a little bit of the Gospel of John on this show tonight, but um, if you're not a locals member, we're going to be going through all of the chapters of John. So we basically touched on one and two a little bit tonight, but I would like to go through all of the Gospel of John. I would love to get into the hour with you guys. Like when Jesus says, My hour has not yet come, that is that is a very, very powerful thing that he's doing there. And it shows you how from the second Jesus starts his ministry, like once I hate even saying ministry because it's such a Protestant term. From the second Jesus starts his mission, and that first miracle at the wedding of Cana, and he says, My hour has not yet come. There's several times throughout that gospel where Jesus talks about the hour, and all of them point to the new Exodus, the new Passover.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:23

And you uh, as of today, you just passed 30,000 tweets.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:28

All right, all right, I can do 30,000 years in purgatory. I'm going to confession and I'm getting an indulgence and I'm erasing my Twitter. How about that? Because all right, no, actually news. Wait, wait, wait. Before we go, we do wait. I just sent to the telegram the insanity because somebody said it earlier. I have to check out Caleb Hammer's last episode, and I did, and I clipped an amazing clip from that uh from that episode. If you guys did not see this, it is amazing. Let me just show you what you're missing. But if you're a Protestant and you're watching this show, just understand that what what we talked about tonight is the depth of the promises fulfilled by God and how how unbelievable the kingdom of heaven come to earth really is. And then listen to Protestant theology.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:28

Read the Bible because God was not Catholic. The Romans sent him, he's the one that got on the cross, right? The Romans killed him because they were Catholics.

SPEAKER_03: 1:12:38

Okay, don't look at it. I don't know what this has to do with out of wedlock.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:40

Out of wedlock wedlock is in the Bible, and you said religion, you just own it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:45

You have four baby daddies and four kids, and it's okay. Five kids, it's okay. Just own that shit, bro.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:49

Five kids, yeah. They're awesome, they're amazing. But the thing is they all wanted they all wanted a baby with me, and we're and if you want to have a baby with me and you're married, you want me to stay at home and be a wife and you want to be a changed man, I'm going for it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:12:58

But if you but you just accept it like that, yeah. Well, in a couple of years, that many people?

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:03

Yep. No, I'm 38 years old.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:04

No, you're not. They were all gapped out, though. They were all gapped out 38 years old, 17.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:08

Huge five. Like, okay, she has 21 and then 15, then nine, 10. Those are the same guy, and then our two-year-old out. That wasn't supposed to be here.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:15

She's been actually they're gapped out. It's like a question if you're gonna read the Bible.

SPEAKER_06: 1:13:21

Wow. Look, faith alone, man.

SPEAKER_05: 1:13:24

Believe in Jesus, and none of this stuff matters, man. None of this stuff matters because you believe in Jesus, right? Look, the thing is the the the the proof of Catholicism is in in the saints and and what holiness is. So if uh if you guys are not locals members on locals over the next couple of weeks uh during Advent, I think we're gonna just do that deep dive into John. Um just because it's such it's I don't know, man. Like seeing the story come alive and seeing the old testament, you know, all the old testament uh foreshadowing coming coming coming to fruition in the new, it's all exciting. It should light your heart on fire. Like you guys should still be excited about your faith. I mean, I've been Catholic for my whole life, and I still have times where I just like I get like you you get excited about it, and so you know, sometimes it's just time to reflect on that. And I hope you guys get a little excited when we talk about this stuff. So that's what we're gonna be doing for advent. So if you guys see a title that doesn't look, you know, if you see a thumbnail and title that might not look that enticing because it's not it's it's not like current events type stuff, click it anyway because I don't know where we're gonna go with each show. I'm going to continue my reading, I'm gonna continue trying to study this stuff. It's not that easy. I do have a day job, I'm doing the best I can. If you guys would like to support us, Rob set up a little tip jar for us. Rob put that link up again. Best way to support us is always gonna be locals, plus, you get a lot more of us on locals.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:03

And we want to throw a little something extra, scan the QR code or go to avoidingbabylon.com. You click donate up at the top. There were uh just for the record, it's it's not like a don't it's not a tax deductible donation. You we're not another charity, guys.

SPEAKER_05: 1:15:22

Not Lila Rose, yes. We're we're two broke ass blue-collar guys just trying to bring some entertainment to our our peers. We do the best we can with this.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:34

Um, somehow the people with the for-profit company are making like one twentieth each of what Lila Rose and her non-profit make, but what I wish I made a 20th of what that woman made.

SPEAKER_05: 1:15:46

Are you kidding me? I wish I made a 20th of that woman made with this. Do it for the LLC guys, portray the LLC. Well, on Defenders of the West from the last show, Louis IX and St. Fernando III were instrumental in my reversion. Saint Louis prayed the office daily, engaged in scourging. Fernando prayed all night to a statue of Our Lady all night before every battle. That is Patrick. My man Patrick, who I'm going to see in Canada next week. Patrick, love you, brother. Thank you for the super chat. But start sending those to me directly. Don't don't make me share them with Rob. I'm kidding. Come on. I'm kidding. I think you guys have done a really good job. I'm uh, I'm an I am I am in SSPV, but not a sede. I love what you guys are trying to do. Um, yeah, like I I don't like getting, I don't even want to get into any of the trad war stuff anymore. I just kind of want to, at least for the moment, you never know where the show's going to go. But for the moment, it's advent. I want to focus on our faith and just just just remembering like why we why we became Catholic, why we love our faith. Uh please comment on the story of Pope Pius XII and reporting of extraterrestrials. We'd I'd have to look into that. I didn't actually see that one.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:00

We'll save that for uh the day.

SPEAKER_05: 1:17:02

Daniel O'Connor. Yeah. Um Paul said, if one of your sons or daughters ever married a Protestant outside the church, how would each of you respond? Um, I'm I make it very clear. I'm okay if my my kids date a Protestant or meet a Protestant, they cannot marry a Protestant because I think, especially like young men, if they like if they're a faithful Protestant and they're willing to have conversations with me, like I'm willing to try and catechize these kids. Like these young men don't have fathers. I'm not um I don't know how I feel about it, to be honest. I'm I'm just saying, like, uh that's not like a deal breaker for me to to see someone who's not Catholic. Because I think if if a guy is sincere in his seeking of God, he's going to be open to it. I mean, many, you know, she couldn't marry him.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:54

I'm like 10 years away from having to worry about that, probably. I guess for my boys, I wouldn't be as concerned because if I raise them right, they should be able to lead a Protestant woman to the church, you know. I as a um, but I would not want my daughter even probably dating a Protestant guy.

SPEAKER_05: 1:18:15

I'll I'll say this though: like, whoever my daughters start to see, I am going to be very involved in that whole thing, and I will be having conversations throughout the whole thing. All my kids know I will not attend your wedding if you get married outside the church. Yeah, like there's no scenario where I'm attending your I don't care, I don't know what to tell you. I will not lose my soul because you wanna and it's it's not just that, like my kids know like you don't you don't give up Jesus for anything but for a boy, like no, you don't you don't you don't give up your soul for a boy, like it just doesn't happen. So I don't think I don't think my daughters would ever they I don't think they would ever.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:05

That's not this is true.

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:09

That is yeah, I don't know. Look, like I said, I I think the majority of men out there today have uh are really lacking in fathers in general. So I think any guy my daughter brings home, I'm going to want want to mentor him into being a man. So it really does like to me, it's it's almost like it doesn't matter that much because whoever they bring home, it's going to be okay, you're you're having conversations with me as if you're you know, if you're if you're seeing my daughter, we're talking, and we'll see how it goes from there. Um, I think we read that one already, right? Uh joined late, bros impressive docket next couple of weeks. By the way, St. Ignatius Study Bible is amazing. All right, mine's coming for Christmas. So uh TLM Ryan bought that one, and he bought the word on fire one to compare them to see how they're doing like against each other.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:00

So I have the St. Ignatius, I don't have the word on fire.

SPEAKER_05: 1:20:04

I've been asked, I've been meaning to ask your thoughts on Heshmeier for a while. Shameless Popery is the one Catholic answer show I still watch. Yeah, I I like Joe. Um, I like Joe. I I think yeah, what I was getting into with um with Tim and Joe is like I think they could actually have a fruitful conversation if if if the if Joe and if Joe Enders and Tim handle the approach better, but I think the way they're handling the approach, like kind of kind of mocking Heshmeyer is not I don't I don't know if that's going to work, but I think if it really is gone about like hey, we're like let's let's have a dialogue about that. Like, I don't think I don't think I don't think you can get Heshmeier to do a debate. Like, no, I just don't not on feminism. Tim Gordon's too good on feminism, like he's he's just got so many receipts. But I think like if you're actually seeking to bring Catholic Inc around on the patriarchy issue, I think it's gotta be a conversation and not a debate. Like the the debate thing, I I just think it's run its course, and I think it's time, especially when it's in-house amongst Catholics. I think we need to be having conversations because this is this is a very important issue. And you know, if we're always trying to roast the other guy or burn the other guy, make the other guy look stupid, it's not it's not gonna work. And I do like Joe. I think Joe's a really good apologist. He's one of the one of the guys I do enjoy watching. So I I hope something comes of it because I I mean I like Joe, Joe, and Tim. But all right, we're gonna wrap this one here. We're heading over to locals if you guys want to come and join us.

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:36

So hold on. I'm I'm roasting the stupid Muslims or Catholic guy in the comments real quick. Give me a second.

SPEAKER_05: 1:21:45

Um, yeah, this is what that's kind of what I mean. Like, like argue, like you guys have to because I think it, yeah, I don't know. I'm not, you know, whatever. I just I just think if if you go about it the right way, maybe you could get a conversation about it. And I think a conversation could actually be beneficial to people. But I think if you're gonna go about it, like because what when when Tim and Trent had the debate, the whole thing became about how Tim destroyed Trent in the debate, and it kind of put a bad taste in those guys' mouths, and like they just uh like they won't go near Tim Gordon because of it, you know. But I think I think if if it was a conversation, it might go somewhere. Yeah, whatever. I think it's an important issue, and I think it has to be handled well.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:30

Okay, let's see here. What uh what do we want to close with?

SPEAKER_05: 1:22:34

We'll close with uh come to locals, guys. Leave us leave us a tip for the end of the year. 102 take three.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:45

Action please. A bottle of recusancellas petit verdeaux is one of the few things that can make me stand watching avoiding Babylon. Use code base that is B-A-S-E-D at checkout.