Will All Israel be Saved? A Deep Dive into Scott Hahn on Romans 9-11

What if Paul’s fiercest argument isn’t a detour but the key that ties Israel’s story together? We took a five-hour deep dive into Romans 9–11 and came up for air convinced that Paul’s mission to the Gentiles is how God keeps his promise to Israel—by finding the lost among the nations and rebuilding a family on the cornerstone of Christ.

We start by tracing the pattern of the younger overtaking the older—Isaac, Jacob, Joseph—and how that pattern prepares Exodus, where God names Israel his firstborn and hints that the nations are the younger sibling. From the Davidic high point to the split of north and south, we follow exile, pride, and the prophets to Jonah, whose “sign” is death and rising, not fish tales. That sign lands with force when the temple falls forty years after the crucifixion. Then we connect Peter’s confession and the keys to Isaiah’s royal steward, showing how the church stands as the Davidic household made new in Christ.

Along the way we tackle a thorny subject: Zion read carnally versus Zion fulfilled in the Messiah. We challenge the habit of projecting sacred promises onto secular power, and we warn how pride—religious or political—blinds otherwise devout people to what God is doing. Paul’s hard words—“not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel”—become a lifeline when institutions shake and headlines stoke fear. Instead of checklist prophecy, we argue for humble vigilance: Scripture reads us before we read it, and fulfillment is clearest in hindsight.

If you crave a canonical reading that makes Romans 9–11 come alive, that connects Genesis to Peter’s keys, and that invites a humbler, braver faith, this one’s for you. Subscribe, share with a friend who loves Bible typology, and leave a review to tell us where you agree, where you think we stretched, and what you want us to unpack next.

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Stage And Banter
• 0:45 First Reactions To Scott Hahn
• 1:45 Romans 9–11 And Anti‑Zionism
• 5:00 Paul’s Old Testament Quotations
• 7:30 Apostle To The Gentiles And Israel’s Promise
• 10:06 Salvation History Overview Plan
• 12:00 Birthright Patterns From Genesis
• 16:00 Division Of The Kingdom: Israel And Judah
• 20:00 Jonah, Assyria, And The Sign Of Jonah
• 24:30 Peter, The Keys, And Davidic Typology
• 28:00 Northern Pride, Southern Pride, And Exile
• 31:00 Humility, Judgment, And Reading The Times
• 35:00 Deuteronomy’s Curses And Gathering
• 38:00 Herod, Second Temple, And Messianic Fervor
• 42:00 Romans 9: Has God’s Word Failed
• 46:00 Paul’s Mission To The Dispersed Tribes
• 50:00 Zionism Debated: Land, Promise, And Prophecy

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:31

Taffy's gonna be so upset. I told him we got a good video. I told him we were gonna use the video this week. It was a decent one. Oh, did you? Yeah, I thought we could have used it. I didn't have time. Um, so I convinced Rob to sit through a five-hour Scott Hahn lecture series, and I have not spoken to him since. And I'm not about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've obviously talked, but I am very curious just your initial uh initial reaction. How did you like it? Did you cap like did it keep your attention? You you never have been a Scott Hahn guy, like, but I think most of your exposure to Scott Hahn was probably like the lighthouse Catholic media talks where he's like presenting uh like a an apologetics argument in an hour like C D or something. But this is a deep dive into Romans 9 through 11 that he gave to priests.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29

I've never felt like I needed to listen to Scott Hahn when I'm talking to you twice a week.

SPEAKER_00: 1:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:36

I get him regurgitated to me all the time, yeah, with a new accent.

SPEAKER_00: 1:41

Okay, but what did you think of this five-hour talk?

SPEAKER_02: 1:46

It was um it was very interesting. So, because Romans chapters nine through eleven are often like the verses often used to support Zionism, right? And in listening to him go through it and some of the some of the items he points out that Paul is very careful in how he says things, makes it very clear that Romans 9 through 11 is not pro-Zionist, it's absolutely anti-Zionist in a modern context, but also just how it can uh be applied throughout so much of the Old Testament, New Testament, and history since then. Um very eye-opening.

SPEAKER_00: 2:28

Did you know how like did you know that Paul is quoting the Old Testament every single thing he's saying? Basically, it's basically like Paul puts like a few words of his own in, but then he throws in an old testament quote.

SPEAKER_02: 2:42

I mean, I I knew it from uh an intellectual standpoint, but I couldn't have told you what verses were quoting what old testament verse.

SPEAKER_00: 2:52

No, pretty it's pretty crazy. Like when you actually go and see that because I if you read those yourself, you just think Paul is writing, and you don't but especially if you're not well versed in the old testament, but everything Paul's writing is uh is is trying to bring especially the uh a Jewish reader to reflect on the scriptures that they know is interesting because it's in the letter to the Romans, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 3:17

Which I mean, obviously he's still writing to the Jews in Rome, um, because there was a large population of them there, but um you know, it's not like some of the other letters or or script, you know, like the gospel of Matthew obviously was written to the Hebrews, you know, whereas Luke was written more to the Gentiles.

SPEAKER_00: 3:35

The book of Hebrews is literally written to Hebrews, right? And he's trying to explain to them how Christ is the new new high priest and all that stuff. But what he's doing in Romans, yeah, you would think he's writing to the Roman church, he should be writing to the Gentiles, but it's it's a it's a theme that we've talked about like a few times on this show, but what Paul is doing is describing how God is fulfilling a promise, many promises from the old testament by choosing him to be an apostle to the gentiles, and it's and he's explaining how God has not forsaken Israel by making Paul an apostle to the because you would think Paul's knowledge of the old testament, you would think Paul would have been an apostle to the Jews because he's so thoroughly well read in the old testament, right? He's a Pharisee, he studied under Gamaliel, like he you would think he would be the one who's going to the Jews because he can run circles around them when it comes to scripture, but God sends him to be an apostle to the Gentiles. But the reason he's doing this is the case that Paul lays out in these two chapters, which is essentially that the God by by by converting the Gentiles, God is actually fulfilling the promise to unite all 12 tribes of Israel. So, what I thought we would do tonight um is kind of go because I know Catholics aren't that well versed in the old testament, so I thought we would kind of just go through salvation history a bit tonight on on this channel, I mean on this episode, because I want everybody to actually know the the the narrative. And if I hadn't listened to Scott go through this stuff over years, I don't think I would know because even though I've you know I've read Genesis a few times, or I've you know, I know the story of the Exodus, and I know these things, understanding understanding it in a coherent narrative puts the whole thing in a different perspective, and it gives you insights into the things we're we're looking at today, also because typology is not just the old concealed in the new and the new revealed in the old. Typology is actually the way reality unfolds, it's the it's the way the story of salvation unfolds throughout history after the scriptures are done being written. And there are so many things that we can learn today from the mistakes of ancient Israel, especially. But it's really important when you understand the curses that come along when they break the covenant. So I know my like I know my wife is listening tonight. Is that making you nervous? No, but I like she doesn't know the whole the whole old testament narrative, and I want to make sure I explain it because like that episode we did last week actually got 21, 22,000 views on it or something, and it's like so you get a lot of new people watching, and I know a lot of the regulars will have heard these things multiple times, and I'm gonna ask you guys to bear with us because we've talked about I mean this this this has kind of been a buildup that we've been doing for the past couple of months in talking about the older brother, right? And and going through and understanding that the birthright gets passed from the old, you know, gets passed over by the older brother and goes to the younger brother, but that narrative is actually very important. So to so to understand that even from Genesis, you have Abraham has two sons, he has Ishmael and then he has Isaac. The birthright should rightfully go to Abraham's firstborn son, but it gets passed to Ishmael because Ishmael, I mean it goes to Isaac because Isaac is the son of the promise, but it should have gone to Ishmael just because technically he's the firstborn, it doesn't. As you go down, you get um Jacob and Esau. Esau is they're they're twins, and Esau comes out first, and Esau is actually um uh wait, no, wait, hesau is actually his father's favorite, right? Yeah, so but the birthright doesn't go to Esau, it goes to Jacob. Then Jacob uh has uh uh 12 sons, and Jacob, who is renamed Israel, who is renamed Israel later on, but he has 12 sons, and the youngest is Joseph. Oh, he's the second youngest, I think, but he he's not the he's not the firstborn, and he winds up being his father's favorite. He gets sold into slavery by Judah. Now, Judah is also Judas, right? Judas is who sells Christ into slavery. Now, there's also two Judases in the in in there's two Judases among the apostles. You have Judas Iscariot and you have another Judas, right? So it's there's one who there's one who betrays Christ and one who doesn't. So like understanding that is even important, that even in the in in in this in the story of of Christ, how some Jews will betray Christ and some don't.

SPEAKER_02: 9:34

And and and understanding that now Joseph as the younger it's symbolic of the in your you're getting there, uh, so I don't want to like steal your thunder, but you know, we know the kingdom of Israel under David splits into Israel and Judah, and then the two Judahs, the two Judases and the Apostles is symbolic of the split that happens within Judah at Christ. The Jews of Judah who follow Christ and the Jews of Judah who who don't, the Pharisees and so on and so forth.

SPEAKER_00: 10:05

So it's like you you see, you see, even the prefigurement in the story itself, like before it as soon as he calls the twelve, you see the prefigurement in the calling of the twelve. Um, now Joseph is interesting because Joseph gets sold into slavery just like Christ. He then goes into Egypt and he is he ends up sitting at the right hand of the king and rules over the gentiles. Right? So this is another like a prefigurement of Christ. He's gonna rule, he's he he's at the right hand of the king ruling over the gentiles. Then you get into the Exodus story, and the Exodus story is important where you you have you have the Jews trapped, uh they're they're slaves in Egypt for 400 years, and God tells Moses to tell Pharaoh, tell Pharaoh, Israel is my firstborn son. Now you just went through the whole story of Genesis dealing with the th the golden thread that runs through it about the birthright being passed over the the firstborn and going to the second. So now, if Israel is God's firstborn son, the implication is that the nations are his secondborn.

SPEAKER_02: 11:25

The gentiles, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 11:26

The gentiles would be his second, you know, they're not his firstborn, but they're they're also his sons. Then you come to the Davidic kingdom. Now, the the it's really interesting when why do they call it Zionism and not Sinaiism, right? Because Sinai is where Moses receives the Ten Commandments, and we're gonna get into this later. I don't want to jump the gun on this, but there's a very specific reason they call it Zionism, and it's because Zion Zion is where where where the where David's covenant is is made, right? Right, the Davidic covenant is now David rules over the 12 tribes of Israel. This is when Israel, this is the golden age of of the Davidic kingdom. It's like the they they which is man, I was thinking about even the the golden age of the reformation we were talking about under Elizabeth, and how they're calling now under Trump trying to say it's a golden age. Like there's so many things.

SPEAKER_02: 12:24

Yeah, but they use that, they use that all the time, though.

SPEAKER_00: 12:26

Yeah, but there was just it was just a lot of things going through my head when I was listening to this, but this is the golden age, the Davidic Kingdom, when all the 12 tribes are together, and you have um uh you have the Ark of the Covenant, you have uh so like this this is this is just like the the where where the the Mosaic Covenant was just for the for for Israel and was uh like it was a very nationalistic covenant. When you betrayed by by them right away, literally immediately. Yeah, the golden calf happens, then you have you have all those prefigurements of even when the uh the serpents are biting them, the serpents are biting them, and God tells Moses to go make go make a you guys are so learned. Learn it. We're gonna get somewhere. I promise. I know I'm stumbling over my thing because I look, you have to understand that this is a this is gonna be a two-hour show off the top of our heads with no notes written. We just listen to this thing, and we're kind of doing it on the fly, so bear with us a little bit. But I have places I want to go with it, and I'm hoping you guys stick with it. Um, so um, after after David, you have Solomon, and then after Solomon, you have what is it, Rehoboam and Jeroboam? Jeroboam is the one who breaks he's in the north, he's so there's there's 12 tribes, and uh Jeroboam goes against the southern two tribes. So that this is uh essentially the point. When we talk about Jews today, all Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews, because the Israelites are the 12 tribes of Israel, so the the 12 tribes of Israel make up Israel, the southern two tribes are Judah and Benjamin. So when we talk in in the modern context of Jews, yeah, those Jews are Israelites, but there are the 10 northern tribes are also Israelites. Now, the 10 northern tribes revolt against the southern tribes, they go off and they are much wealthier.

SPEAKER_02: 14:35

It's for where we want to go later in the story, it's important to note that they break under uh Raya Bohm, who is a tyrant. Like he really is uh being a bastard to everyone, yeah. You know, so it's understandable um why they kind of harden their hearts against Raya Bohem.

SPEAKER_00: 15:01

He uh like they come to him and they they they uh they're they're like begging him for mercy. They're like uh like your father laid a heavy burden on us. Um your father laid a heavy burden on us. Can you please lighten the burden? He goes, My father's my little what does he say? He's like, my little pinky is bigger than my father's junk, essentially, is what he says to them. He goes, You think his burden was heavy, wait until you feel my burden. That's what he says in response to them. So that that that kind of brings a little perspective into Christ saying, Come to me, all who are heavy burdened, and I will give you let and I will give you rest. Like that that's what Christ's getting at when he says that. Like he's actually saying, he's bringing a call back to to Ray of Ohm and he's saying, All you who are heavy burdened, come to me and I will give you rest. Because they go to Rahboam and they beg him, please, our burden is so heavy. And he goes, Yeah, I'm gonna show you a heavy burden. And he may and he like doubles their their workload and their taxes, and he's it's pretty awful to them, right? So then the the 10 northern tribes break off.

SPEAKER_02: 16:06

Now, when they break off, they're they no longer have the temple, they don't have they don't have the they basically, you know, the especially when well the Levites, the the Levitical priesthood, the Levites stay with the the southern kingdom, right? So they lose the priesthood, they lose the temple.

SPEAKER_00: 16:26

So now the southern two tribes get very prideful during this period because they have the temple, they have they still have the covenant. And ten northern tribes end up mixing in idolatry and they start doing some wacky stuff. So this is when this is the time period when um God wants Jonah to go and preach to Nineveh. Okay, so um God calls Jonah and tells Jonah to go and and preach to Nineveh, and Jonah doesn't want to do it because Nineveh is Assyria, and Jonah knows if I go and preach to Nineveh, they're going to repent, and then God's gonna use them to bring judgment on the northern kingdom because Jonah's a prophet from the northern kingdom, and a lot of the prophets weren't in the northern kingdom at that yeah, yeah, trying to call them back, like they're they're all trying to try to call them the northern kingdom being named Israel, by the way. Um, so uh let me let me see. I so we've done this, but I've I've read this before on the show, but if you guys are new to the show, you've never heard this. This is actually an amazing thing that's that's happening here. So if if you remember the Pharisees come to Jesus and they and they say, Give us a sign, and Jesus says, Uh, an evil and wicked generation demands a sign. The only sign you're gonna get is the sign of Jonah. What Jesus is doing there is actually really crazy. So um, Jonah's a prophet from the northern kingdom of Israel. He received a command from the Lord to warn the great city of Nineveh about their coming judgment. Nineveh was the capital of Assyria, a Gentile nation. Instead of obeying God, Jonah fled. He sailed on a ship to escape from his task. While on the ship, God cast a great storm upon them. Jonah knew he was he was the cause of the storm and told the crew of the ship to throw him overboard. We tend to think of Jonah as a coward, afraid to carry out the will of God. That isn't the case. Um, Jonah didn't want to bring God's message to Nineveh because God was preparing Nineveh to wipe out the northern kingdom of Israel, who had become disobedient and sinful. Jonah wasn't a coward. He saw that God was preparing Nineveh to bring judgment on the northern kingdom and was prepared to die for his countrymen rather than help the Assyrians destroy his kinsmen. After the crew threw him overboard, Jonah was swallowed by a giant fish for three days until he was vomited up on dry land. The important part of Jonah's three days in the belly of the fish is what Jonah prays while he's in there. Jonah doesn't describe the intestines of a fish, he describes being in the womb of Sheol. Uh, and then this is from Jonah. He says, And I said, I am cast away out of the sight of thy eyes, but yet I sh I shall see thy holy temple again. The waters encompass the waters compass me about even to the soul. The deep hath closed me round about, the sea hath covered my head. I should have I shouldn't have picked the dewy rings. You want me to know I got it, I got it. I went down to the lowest parts of the mountains, the bars of the earth have shut me up forever, and thou wilt bring up my life from the corruption, oh my lord. So that's just like what Jonah's describing is not the intestines of a fish, he's describing being in hell, essentially for three days. So the miracle that in the story of Jonah is not that he survives in the fish's belly for three days, it's the opposite, it's that he dies, right? Jonah died in the fish, went to Sheol, and three days later was resurrected by God. He then reluctantly goes to Nineveh and gives them God's message that they will be destroyed in 40 days. When news reached the king of Nineveh, he heeded God's warning and commanded that the whole city repent and fast. Because of this, God spares Nineveh. Forty years later, Assyria carried out God's judgment and destroys the northern kingdom. When Jesus tells the scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees that this generation will receive the sign of Jonah, he's showing them how this is a foreshadowing event. In Jonah's day, it was the northern kingdom that was dividing the house of David. In Jesus' day, it's the scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees. They are calling Jesus, the son of David, a demoniac, saying that he gets his power from Beelzebel himself. They are on the brink of committing the unpardonable sin, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. So they're the new northern kingdom of Jesus' day. Rome is the new Assyria, and Jesus is the new Jonah. Jesus would rather die to spare his kinsmen, even though they are sinful. But he rises and the gospel goes out to the nation of the Gentiles, who will bring judgment upon the house of Israel and Jesus' owner generation. The temple was destroyed 40 years later by Rome, just as it was destroyed by Assyria 40 years after Jonah. Jesus is the new Jonah, the Pharisees are the new northern kingdom, and after three days, the gospel will go out to extend mercy, grace, and forgiveness to the arch enemies so that God can use them as he used Nineveh. An evil generation demands a sign, and Jesus gives it to them. Two chapters later in Matthew 16, Peter makes his confession about Jesus being the Christ. And in response, Jesus said to him, Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my father who is in heaven. So this is this what I'm about to tell you. This is I don't know how to back this up, but I I read this somewhere. Peter is really the son of Johan, the son of John, not Jonah. But Jesus says to him, Simon, son of Jonah. Simon has become Peter, the spiritual son of Jesus, the new Jonah. This and only thing I'm saying I read was that Peter's father's name is Jon, not Jonah, but it makes sense, right? So Peter's really the son of Johan, not Jonah. So but Jesus says to him, Simon, son of Jonah. Simon has become Peter, the spiritual son of Jesus, the new Jonah. This is significant because it is more Old Testament Davidic typology. When the son of David was anointed, he became the son of God by grace. Now Jesus, the son of God by nature, has become the son of David through divine grace, and the anointing of the spirit at baptism. The transfiguration in the next chapter reveals he is the true Messiah. So Simon calls Jesus the Christos, son of the living God, and Jesus answered, You are Petrus, the rock, the son of Jonah. Jesus names him rock because a wise man builds his house on rock. He does not tell Peter to build him a church, he tells him, Upon this rock I will build my church. As the son of the of as the son of the new Jonah, Peter receives the keys to the house of the Davidic kingdom. Matthew 16, 18 is a direct reference to the Isaiah prophecy about the house of David. And on that day I will summon my servant Eliakim. I will clothe him with your robe, gird him with your sash, confer on him your authority. He shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. I will place the key of the house of David on his shoulder. What he opens, no one will shut. What he shuts, no one will open. This is directly, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church. What you what you uh I will give you the keys to the house to the kingdom of heaven. What you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, what you loose on earth will be loose in heaven. That's where all of this imagery is coming from, and this harkens back to this whole thing that's happening with Assyria and the destruction of the northern kingdom. Now, during this time, before the destruction of the kingdom, the northern kingdom is much wealthier than the southern kingdom. But the southern kingdom, which is Judah and Benjamin, they are so prideful because they have the temple, they have the covenants fill, and they're looking down upon the northern kingdom. They're idolaters, they're this, they're that. And they're right. But there's an important lesson in this because not only is the northern kingdom destroyed, but so is the southern kingdom.

SPEAKER_02: 24:03

Later on.

SPEAKER_00: 24:04

Later on, and this is the Babylonian captivity, right?

SPEAKER_02: 24:08

So the point is you want to go over what happens to the northern kingdom and those ten tribes, and go ahead, you take that. And the way the Assyrians worked, what they would do to quell uh uprisings, rebellions, was when they would conquer a people, they would disperse that people entirely throughout the remainder of their empire, and then repopulate that area with the mixture of the rest of their people. So the the ten northern tribes were not only stripped away from their home, but broken and spread apart all over the empire, to where within two generations they are no different from just the rest of the Assyrian Empire, they have become Gentiles in that that sense.

SPEAKER_00: 25:18

So the but but the the the only thing I was getting at is the the the pride of the of the southern kingdom, I just saw such an important lesson in it for us, especially trads. Like we we especially the trads who kind of have this this haughtiness because you think you have the traditional liturgy.

SPEAKER_02: 25:42

Like the and and this includes Ant and I of course, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00: 25:47

All I was thinking about was myself in this. Like I was literally just thinking of myself when I was doing this, and I was like, man, like I I really I really think this is something I need to talk to the people who listen to our show about because I'm very worried about this. Like, there's there's a sense of pride that comes with when you when you are a trad Catholic, you think you have, you know, well, we have the the traditional faith, and we and we have the the the traditional sacraments and we're not uh falling to modernism and all these things. But the problem is when you're prideful, God will humble you, man.

SPEAKER_02: 26:23

And if you if you're too prideful, you're not you're not looking for that, you're not prepared for it, you're not ready for it. Just like the the southern kingdom of Judah wasn't ready for the Babylonians.

SPEAKER_00: 26:33

At all. They did not expect God's judgment to come upon them. And there is such an important aspect of just having a humility of heart through everything and and not being too confident in anything, and thinking you have you know you know better than everybody else. It's just the the there has to be an aspect of humility that we all really need to keep, especially in this time of crisis. Because I look, I uh I I look at I look at some people who are so confident that this isn't the Pope, and this is you know, and it's like, man, I don't think any of us can possibly understand what is happening right now. None of us can. God is doing something mysterious right now, and for any of us to think we know exactly what's happening, we're nuts because nobody knows how how prophecy is fulfilled until it's fulfilled, fulfilled. It's one of those things you see in hindsight, but as it's happening, nobody knows. We can make some guesses at it, we can try to read the signs of the times, things like that, but there's no way to know exactly how things are going to play out. So you so you you always have to have this attitude of God, please don't let me miss you. Like, I don't I don't want to end up like the Pharisees, where you know they thought they were serving God by killing God. That's that like that's where their pride was. They were they well this you think about especially when you when you talk like because I've I've seen people say about the Antichrist, well, no, he's gonna be from the tribe of Benjamin, and they they list off all the things that he's going to be. And it's like, man, you think if it was that easy, there would just be a checklist. Oh, well, this can't be him because he's this, he's that, and the father said this. It's I I promise you, this deception, if it comes in our lifetime, will be one that deceives the elect. So have a humble heart and just say, God, please do not let me miss you, because the religious authorities of Christ's time are the ones who should have been the first to recognize the Messiah, and they didn't, and it's gonna be similar in our time. The religious authorities, our religious authorities, are not going to catch it, they're gonna miss it because they are so worldly, and we can be very worldly too, and we think we're being holy because we pray the rosary every day, and we do that. Just I'm telling you, all of us have to have a humility about us right now because we don't know what the heck God is doing, and we don't want to miss it. Um, so then uh the there's something also that is important here is what God does when the covenant is broken. Um, so if you go to Deuteronomy, um, and when all these things come upon you, the blessings and the curse, which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the Lord your God has driven you. So this is when you because you break the curse, the punishment for the curse is you get driven out to the nations. Um and return to the Lord your God, you and your children, and obey his voice and all that I command you to this day with all your heart and with all your soul. Then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion upon you, and he will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. If your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of heaven, from there the Lord God will gather you, and from there he will fetch you, and the Lord your God will bring you into the land which your Fathers possess that you may possess it, and he will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers. And that's in Deuteronomy. So it's like you you break the covenant and God disperses you because that's the punishment. So what happens is the southern kingdom goes into the Babylonian exile, the Babylonian captivity, but it's only for 70 years. And then they're gathered back into Israel. And then they start rebuilding the temple. And there's like a series of things that happen. So, like the second temple when Christ comes, did you did you know that Herod built this the temple when of Christ's time? Like that's the Herodian temple. Yeah, yeah, that's the Herodian temple. And Herod is trying to usurp the right of the Messiah. And Herod's not even a Jew, like Herod's an Edomite. Like, so we watched that video of uh of uh Netanyahu the other day saying, like, we must defeat Edom. Like Herod, Herod's like a sworn enemy of the Jews, and he basically buys his he colludes with the Romans and he buys his way into, and he's calling himself the king of the Jews. It's and he builds, he's like what he's like the grand architect of of the ancient world. Like they say that the the Herodian temple was like more grand than Solomon's temple, but um which is pretty presumptuous if you think about it. Well, it the thing is the Herodian dynasty was actually like the the Herodian Empire was bigger than the Davidic Empire, so like that it kind of brings in this is you have the zealots who are trying to kill Herod, I think, right? The zealots were trying to kill Herod because they wanted the Messiah to come. Like, there's so much there's so much going on when Christ comes. It's it it's it there's all these different factions, and um, but yeah, like Herod Herod was trying to usurp that that authority for being being the Davidic king, and he's not a descendant of David, which is why when he hears the prophecies of the king coming, like he goes and slaughters all those innocent children, like it kind of makes that make sense because he is not even a Jew, right? And he's sitting on the throne calling himself the king of the Jews, and then there's this prophecy that because look at the time when Christ comes, there is messianic fervor. You have the Danielic prophecies that are lining up to either like the the they're within 30 years, so it's either Christ is born in the year 1 AD or or He's born in the year 33 AD. Like that's how it's lining up, and meanwhile, he's born in 1 A.D., you know, because we judge time by this by his coming, but it's like that is this messianic fervor that is going on in Israel at this time and in Jerusalem, and they're all waiting for the Messiah, and that's why like Barabbas is a false messiah, right? Barabbas is son of the father, but bar Allah. He's he's a false Christ, he's trying to try. I I'm I think he was like he might have he might have been like a zealot or something like that.

SPEAKER_02: 33:16

Yeah, he was a zealot who was who committed murder, right?

SPEAKER_00: 33:20

Yeah, he committed murder, he murdered a Roman soldier. It's like there's there's just this fervor going on when Christ comes. So when he does come, you now have the the the Pharisees are are they they want their very specific type of messiah. That's just what they want. So when you when you get when you get to the time Paul is writing in Romans 9, one of the things he says is um where did where did I write it? Uh he says, um, so okay, so now okay, so now you're at the time of Christ. Now the 10 northern tribes are dispersed amongst the nations, right? They are completely just just Gentiles at this point. So the people of Christ's time are thinking to themselves, like, how it's not even possible to unite the 12 tribes, like it's a it's not even a possibility. So, like, God made these promises. Did the word of God fail? Like, that's actually what they're saying. Like, did like that, how could this promise even ever be revealed? So, what Paul's doing in Romans 9 through 11 is putting his case forth that not only not only did the word of God not fail, but Paul is not just the apostle to the Gentiles. Paul's whole mission is to bring the lost sheep of Israel back into the fold by going to the nations where they were dispersed, and it's like very specific where Paul goes. Like Paul goes to the places where those 10 northern tribes were dispersed to in order to bring those children of Israel back in. So Paul says in Romans 9, he says, But it is not as though the word of God had failed, for not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, which is a weird thing to say, right? But I I when I read that, I was thinking in terms of the new covenant promise that we have with Peter, that the gates of hell will not prevail. Like that's the first thing that came to my mind when I read that. It's like, I because I think we're going to get to a point where the church might get so messy that we will question has the word of God failed? Because it will appear as though the gates of hell have prevailed. It's going to appear like the gates of hell prevailed, and we're going to have to keep faith during that time. And that's the importance of being humble through this whole thing and not being proud and thinking because you have this liturgy, you're gonna catch it. Because if we lose everything, if all the sacraments are taken away, because if you go back to our lady of Akita, what does she say? She says, The only thing you'll have left is the sign left by my son and the rosary. And if something like that comes about, like the sign left by my son, I don't think that's the mass, I think that's the cross.

SPEAKER_02: 36:16

Well, and in in the book of the apocalypse, the the fathers interpret that to you know to read that we'll we'll lose the sacrifice of the mass throughout the whole world for three and a half years, for three and a half years, right?

SPEAKER_00: 36:30

So don't get so proud that you have the Latin mass and all well, I'm well I'm SSPX, I'm never gonna lose it, or I'm a Cedivic contest, I'm never gonna lose it, or whatever. You have a double. I want to get into Zionism a bit here because what you have now is the the covenant curse is you're dispersed amongst the nations, right? But what I read there is that God will gather you back in when you when you what what what was it? He's like when all these things come upon you, the blessings and the curse which I've set before you and um what what Han says uh in regard to this is you know part of the covenant was that they had a duty to go out and gather the rest of the nations into the covenant, and they didn't.

SPEAKER_02: 37:38

Well, sorry, but that's part of the covenant, and it will be accomplished one or two. Whether you want to or not, if you don't go out to the nations and gather them in, well, sorry, you've been sent out and dispersed among the nations, and now the church will use you to gather the nations in, and and that applies to today, too.

SPEAKER_00: 37:56

So, look, during the Babylonian captivity, well, first of all the 10 northern tribes were lost for 700 years, like 700 years. They were lost, right? The the the southern two tribes were only banished for 70 years, and then they got to come back in. But what we're dealing with now is a 2,000-year banishment, well, 1960-year banishment, or 1948, right? 1948 year banishment. And God starts to allow his people to gather back into Israel. And I asked Rob the other day, so I can't I can't ask him now. I would have liked to ask you on on the fly because it's an interesting question. Like, because we did that show the other day with Gavin and uh and and Scott Hahn, and we got a bunch of comments of people saying, You guys just don't understand Zionism. Zionism is just the Jews saying that they have a right to self-determination and a place to and a right to have land.

SPEAKER_02: 38:51

Yeah, that's the problem, guys. Don't you get it?

SPEAKER_00: 38:54

But that's not really what Zionism is, anyway. Like, if it was just the Jews had a right to land, it's like we we offered them to have like I think after after World War II, they offered them to have land in in a couple of places, right? But they they insisted it was in Israel.

SPEAKER_02: 39:08

So, yeah, in in early Zionism, the big discussion was where where are we gonna build a nation? Is it gonna be in the in the you know the the pale of pale of settl settlement in what's now Ukraine? Is it gonna be uh in South America somewhere? They they thought of having colonies down in like Argentina and Chile. Um, they thought about Madagascar, but eventually they settled on on Palestine.

SPEAKER_00: 39:39

They they they didn't settle on Palestine, they wanted Zion.

SPEAKER_02: 39:45

Well, what I mean is yes, there were Zionists, early Zionists, who obviously were pushing for that among the options, and and the the world, um world Zionist Congress chose that in the end.

SPEAKER_00: 39:59

So so the I I had a conversation with Gideon the other day. Um, I sp I spoke with Gideon for about an hour, and like my heart goes out to Gideon because he he really has a love for the Jewish people and he wants them to convert so bad. Like you could just tell when you talk with him, like he's a he's a little confused about a lot of this stuff too. Like, I my heart goes out to him. I know he has a heart of gold, and he's trying to figure out a way to bring the Jews into the new covenant because he knows they need to be saved. Like, he's not he's he's he's not one of the Jews who because there are there are some of the um what do they call themselves? Uh uh what what what Hebrew Hebrew Catholics or something? Yeah, is that what they so there's some Hebrew Catholics who are actually saying that the Jews being allowed back into Israel is is is a fulfillment of God's prophecy, and this is a good thing. And the problem with this whole thing is it is a carnal reading of the scriptures. Like we all get mad at the Protestants because they misinterpret scripture. What is happening with Zionism is a carnal reading of the scriptures, and it is from the pit of hell, it is so demonic. So if you even go to Psalm 2, what is Zionism? Why is it called Zionism? It's called Zionism because you have to listen here. Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth set themselves and the rulers take counsel together against the Lord and his anointed, saying, Let us burst their bonds asunder and cast their cords from us. He who sits in the heavens laughs, the Lord is uh uh has them in derision. But this is the important part. Then he will speak to them in his wrath and terrify them in his fury, saying, I have set my king on Zion, my holy hill. I will tell them of the decree of the Lord. He said to me, You are my son, today I have begotten you. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage and the ends of the earth your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. This is what the point of Zionism is. There is a messianic fervor in Israel now, like there was in the con time of Christ. When I spoke to Gideon the other day, he goes, Look, when it started out, you know, this was a minority thought, like a minority opinion. Um, and there was mostly like secular Jews coming in. And Pope Benedict talked about this in 2018, well after he stepped down, and he was he was getting a little worried about the way Catholics were getting a little too Zionist. He was like, Look, we can we could talk about like you know, Israel being a secular state, not saying that they can't be religious, like think you know, it's it's fine that they're they're Jews, but like we can't talk about Jews in a Jewish state because of the implications of it. Now, I heard Father Rippiger on with Tim Gordon the other day, and Father Rippiger was saying, Well, you know, there's a and I I love Father Rippiger. Please don't think I'm saying anything negative about him here.

SPEAKER_02: 43:06

I just have to prepare a clip.

SPEAKER_00: 43:09

I just don't think Father Rippiger even was, I don't think he was right on this. He said, uh, you know, um, the the reason the church couldn't support a state of Israel is because there's a lot to do with, you know, how long a people are in a land, and if they're if they're not there for a hundred years, you can't really, you know, give support because they don't have like an inheritance to the land, things like that. And it's like, no, that is not why the church could not support a Jewish state in Israel. There is like the church fully understood what this would mean. The church has always understood that if the people of it the Jewish people come back into the land of Israel, that is the beginning of the kingdom of Satan on earth. Like Maudsley's not wrong about that. This stuff is very serious. You're talking about God allowing now.

SPEAKER_02: 44:00

The thing is, they may have their because Zion is supposed to be Zion true Zion. Is the Zion Kingdom of Heaven, which is the Catholic Church, right?

SPEAKER_00: 44:11

It's the Catholic Church. Like, listen to what that says. It says, I have set my king on Zion, my holy hill, I will tell of the decree of the Lord. He said to me, You are my son. Today I have begotten you. That is Jesus Christ, he is the Messiah. They read this with a carnal reading, and they think their king will be installed in this land. It's an aversion. There is no like this is a carnal reading of the scriptures. This is so demonic. It's one of those. Oh man, I we should do this on locals. We should bring this over to locals because I I we need to talk like this is end of the world stuff. It really is. Like, I'm sorry, guys, but we are talking about end of potentially end of the world stuff. And the thing is, there's a lot that comes with this, especially with the stuff that is happening. Like, there is not a co this is not a coincidence that the Republican Party is in a civil war right now, and this whole thing, and and Nick like Nick Fluentes is bringing about the apocalypse, essentially. By bringing this conversation, they're just using him, they're using him as as as a tool to bring this conversation to the public because they want it in the public. Us talking about this, they want this, they want this. That's why, dude. Do you remember when we do want it? Do you remember when we used to talk about this topic? We used to have to call them the Amish.

SPEAKER_02: 45:43

Yeah, it's been a while since we've had to use that term, actually.

SPEAKER_00: 45:46

Like you think about a couple of years ago, we used to have to say the Amish.

SPEAKER_02: 45:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 45:51

Um, look, do you for a second think Ben Shapiro is not a hardcore Zionist in that he is like waiting a Messiah? He is waiting for the Messiah, he thinks he's in the messianic age. Yeah, for sure he does. I don't know. He is fervently waiting for the messiah right now. And the thing is, it is the dominant thought in Israel right now, it is not a minority thought anymore. This is a very, very serious thing that we're talking about, and it's all about a carnal reading of the scriptures where they read prophecies from the old testament that are fulfilled in Christ, and they think because this is all about crushing the nations with a rod, their messiah will crush the nations with a rod, and this leads to the antichrist, like it really does. And the thing is, if if we got to do this on locals, just because this is this is before we do that.

SPEAKER_02: 46:53

We should probably uh mention our sponsor.

SPEAKER_00: 46:56

Yes, absolutely. We love recus and sellers, so we do need to mention them. But this is um this is this is where like I'm going to start getting into some of my my my insights I got from the Han talk because we went through we went through the story and the narrative and stuff, but some of the things that I was thinking when I was listening to this and just the the the the way this thing seems to be unfolding is it's a lot. So we uh Reggie Sincellers. Um Regison Sellers, you go you use code base to checkout for 10% off. Reguson Cellars is a winery out in Washington State, they've been our sponsor for almost a year now. We took a little break in the summer because they they couldn't uh ship in the in the hot months. But while winter's here, we still have them. We'd love it if you guys could help support them. They're an awesome Catholic family. They love our show, they love what we do, they love that Rob can't pronounce their name.

SPEAKER_02: 47:54

Um that's ironic is I can pronounce Manashevitz better than I can requisite.

SPEAKER_00: 47:59

Yeah, it's kind of again that it is bizarre.

SPEAKER_02: 48:01

Demonic inversion right there, folks. Um we promise they're not Manashevitz. We do.

SPEAKER_00: 48:08

We do, we really should do like have like a a better ad read for them because I kind of do this off the top of my head. I don't I don't read it, but they they also ship uh different fruits and things like that. But like it's important to support Catholic companies.

SPEAKER_02: 48:24

Unbelievable. She says I can pronounce Manishevitz better because of my hair.

SPEAKER_00: 48:29

It's the juke, bro. Um, it's important to support companies that that actually, like especially a show like ours, because the interesting thing is we're the only ones actually talking about this stuff, and it's bizarre to me because well, it's not bizarre to me. There are much smarter people who should be talking about this.

SPEAKER_02: 48:47

We don't have big sponsors that are don't want us to talk about this.

SPEAKER_00: 48:50

That's why we talk about it. But there are very few shows, there are very few companies that will sponsor us, and Recucent is one of the very few. There's one other company asking, and we're probably gonna do um Black Monk Rosary soon. But as of now, Recucent Sellers, the only show, the only company brave enough to support this show and the things we talk about.

SPEAKER_02: 49:11

And if you yourself do not drink, buy it as gifts for Christmas.

SPEAKER_00: 49:15

Christmas is fun. Thanksgiving, bring a bottle of wine to Thanksgiving, guys. Yeah, bring a bottle of wine to Thanksgiving. That's that's a great idea. Like, think about the gift you could bring to your family on Thanksgiving. Buy a bottle of wine for Thanksgiving. You know what? I'm I'm gonna run that for the next couple episodes we do, even if they didn't tell us to. This is a great Thanksgiving gift, it's also a great Christmas gift.

SPEAKER_02: 49:35

I wonder if they can give you some bottles before Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_00: 49:39

You think it's too soon, too, too late? Okay, either way.

SPEAKER_02: 49:42

Well, I'm just saying for me myself. I'm we're traveling.

SPEAKER_00: 49:46

We should have been pumping that all all of November. What were we thinking? Should have been pumping that all of November.

SPEAKER_02: 49:52

Either way, remember to do it at the end of the show.

SPEAKER_00: 49:55

Um, so um, let's see, Irish Catholic last. The problem is people think in carnal terms, Christ said, You are of your father, the devil. This isn't an earthly plan, it is the demonic plan contrived and executed by the evil one beginning in the garden. That so we're gonna get into a lot of that. Like, this is the it is strange to me, though, that we're the show talking about this because I'm a freaking high school dropout and a construction worker, and you're an accountant from Minnesota, and there are much smarter people who should be talking about this. And I'll be honest, like Scott Hahn should be talking about this because he knows the story, and he understands the implications of what's happening right now, and it's the reason he would probably never come on our show because I would have to press him on these things. It's this is this is deep stuff. It's like you're God allowing them to come back into that land as apocalyptic undertone, like there's no way around seeing it that way, and then when you add in all the things we're seeing happening in the world right now, there's no other way to see this than as being part of the eschaton because and America plays a very big part in it, a very big part, and things things seem to be heating up. So, we're gonna go over to the other side and we're gonna talk about it over there. Um, I probably should give my wife uh a login for uh local.

SPEAKER_02: 51:26

Just give her your login.

SPEAKER_00: 51:28

Oh Nicole, if you want to watch it still, text me. I'll give you I'll give you the locals code, the locals login.

SPEAKER_02: 51:34

Uh uh, let me all right up the banner to locals.

SPEAKER_00: 51:38

So if you guys are not locals members, come over there and join us. Um I'd be interested to hear you guys' feedback because this this one is um this is this is uh this is just from listening to this whole thing, all I could think about was like the implications for today. So that that's kind of what I want to get into on the other side. And this this may be um a multi-part series where the next episode we may actually go through Romans and kind of break down what what what Paul is saying in the in those verses and stuff and try to break it down a little bit, but I mean it it's a very uh oh Nicole wants to log in. Um just come down and grab my phone. You can watch it on my phone. I could have just said it. I texted it. She's clearly watching. Just come downstairs, Nicole. I'll give you my phone and I'll log in for you.

SPEAKER_02: 52:37

Oh, good news, good news, everyone. Requisant sellers does offer next day air, which I'm doing literally right now to get mail for or to get wine for Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_00: 52:50

Um hold on, I have to I have to actually get on the you're gonna have to come on to go here. Wait, I'm giving my wife the phone. Hang on. Wait, it's not playing though. How do I wait? No, no, no, don't go nowhere. All right, Rob, take us out. I'll give her the phone.

SPEAKER_01: 53:06

Hold on, I gotta buy my wine. Wait, I need to make sure to get it for Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_00: 53:12

Nicole, Nicole never watches the show, so this is you do not watches. I do. Um, all right, hold on.

SPEAKER_02: 53:23

Okay, well, I'm gonna start killing streams. So, everyone, if you're watching on YouTube, move over to locals because I'm killing the streams here in just a second.

SPEAKER_00: 53:31

I gave her my iPad. Uh, it was so bad. I wonder why we're the only ones talking about this. We're the most unprofessional show in the world. Uh it's the end of the world. Order your wine now, they're saying on.