Massie's New Wife Sparks Faith Debate Across America

What if the hardest part of grief isn’t the loss itself, but how the living watch you handle it? We dive straight into a thorny question: is there a “right” time to remarry after a spouse dies, especially when children are still grieving and the internet is watching? We don’t hand out rules; we wrestle with the difference between what’s allowed, what’s wise, and what’s respectful when private sorrow meets public platforms.

That candor opens into a bigger reflection on how people instinctively talk to their dead and what that says about prayer, memory, and the communion of saints. We explore why Marian devotion feels so natural, how a mother uniquely suffers with her children, and why many Catholics bristled at a recent Vatican document discouraging titles like Co-Redemptrix. The theology is one thing; the message it sends to the faithful is another. We try to hold both—truth and tenderness—without dumbing anything down.

To ground today’s heat, we turn to Genesis. Younger over older, betrayal and reunion, Judah and Joseph—those messy family stories echo through salvation history, from Adam and Christ to Eve and Mary. We connect those patterns to modern culture wars, fear-based politics, and the outrage economy. Why did a tame interview spark a wildfire? What happens when panic and censorship drive people into echo chambers? Meanwhile, real pressures—debt, housing, wages, family breakdown—grind on in the background. Our aim is clarity: honor grief without spectacle, love Mary without apology, value nation without idolatry, and keep your eyes on what actually shapes lives.

If this conversation challenged you or gave you language for something you’ve felt, share it with a friend, subscribe for more, and leave a review so others can find the show. Your take: does public grief need public rules?

Chapters

• 0:31 Missing Intro And Setting The Stage
• 4:19 The Remarriage Question After A Spouse Dies
• 8:56 Grief, Kids, And “Appropriate” Timelines
• 17:25 Jokes, Gallows Humor, And Boundaries
• 20:45 Talking To The Dead And Intuitive Theology
• 24:45 Mary’s Titles, Vatican Document, And Backlash
• 30:45 Mercy, Motherhood, And Suffering With Us
• 37:05 Genesis Themes: Younger Over Older
• 46:45 Cousin Marriage, Women’s Dignity, And Reform
• 56:00 Joseph, Judah, And Reunion Patterns
• 1:04:35 Tucker, Shapiro, Fear Narratives, And Censorship
• 1:16:40 Versailles, Nationalism, And Historical Roots

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:30

What happened to Taffy?

SPEAKER_04: 0:33

I don't know if we had one this time.

SPEAKER_03: 0:35

Bailed on us? Is Taffy? I'm always like excited to see the intro video, and Taffy let us go.

SPEAKER_04: 0:40

Let me maybe he sent one and I just see Rob's heart's not in it.

SPEAKER_03: 0:45

Rob's heart's not in it tonight. Well, he only chose the worst top.

SPEAKER_04: 0:50

Oh crap, he did send one.

SPEAKER_03: 0:52

Yeah, of course, Rob. You are not. Here's the thing. Rob doesn't ever trust me when I tell him what we're gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_04: 0:59

I don't know why. Well, literally every reply to the tweet that today asked why the hell we were doing this one.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11

I don't know. Sometimes I got a little rant in me, and sometimes I think something's interesting. Even if you people don't understand it, it might be interesting.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18

Yeah, guys, you gotta see. Anthony doesn't care what you want. I don't care.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24

Yes, I talk about what I want to talk about, and you guys come along for the ride. We'll see how it does. I don't always win. I don't know. Do the best I can. Um, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 1:33

So so even the the little coaching software that uh you know will tell me it's what's a good title and and stuff. Yeah, basically, I put this one. I I I type this one in, and it's like this does not seem to match with your audience.

SPEAKER_03: 1:50

I'm like, I know, right? Well, I think try to tell him I think he should just went with the title I gave. I think it would have been because I think the debate, the debate, it's not really like it's a debate, but like uh Thomas Massey, who cares? His wife, his wife passed a year ago, right? Um, and I remember when his wife passed, like everybody, like all these conspiracy theories came out because like it was all it was like seemed like it was so sudden, and everybody was like right away went to like you know, was not everyone, a few idiots on Twitter. Most people thought like it could have been the jab, you know, and but his reaction at the time was very like nonchalant. Like he he was, I don't know, he seemed a little like callous about it.

SPEAKER_04: 2:35

And I was like, all right, you know, he's married for 31 years, his wife passed, and um, and then he announced on Twitter you guys have to understand no matter how you act during any sort of crisis or event, Anthony will say it's wrong and he'll judge you for it. I mean, it's Twitter, you're supposed to do that. It's what you put it's for you know what, we're we're sharing the whole episode over.

SPEAKER_01: 3:10

Listen, EBT is done. No more government card, so we take over now. This podcast, Avoiding Babylon.

SPEAKER_03: 3:17

We are the host, steady, logical, very catholic, and I am wrong. I can't believe he got the mayor of um Minnesota. Mayor of Minnesota. I hate the apples. Uh it's not much different from my uh New York City mayor that's coming in. Um so um the so he he pops up um a picture of this woman he's getting married to. You have a picture of it? It's in the thumbnail. All right, put it up. I don't know. Some people come in mid-stream. Oh my gosh, guys. I don't know how I'm supposed to uh do a show with a guy that doesn't want to do the show.

SPEAKER_04: 4:04

You didn't tell me we'd have a picture ready.

SPEAKER_03: 4:07

I mean, I put a tweet in there with my picture. I know, I'm gonna do it. You can pop that up.

SPEAKER_04: 4:10

Yeah, that's what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_03: 4:14

Why don't show it? People think don't show all right. So that's so that's that's his his new wife, right? Um, and um I asked the question, uh, should he have waited longer than a year after his wife passed to remarry? And the thing is, you know, marriage uh is till death to us part. So I don't think there's anything morally wrong with him remarrying, but I I don't know. Something seemed like a lack of decorum to just jump on social media a year after your wife of 31 years passed and just pop that up. I it just seemed like a lack of decorum in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04: 4:49

Yeah, for a Protestant nation, maybe who, but who cares? Right? I mean, it's pretty common in the Catholic world, has been for two millennia.

SPEAKER_03: 5:00

Um so all right, so I the reason I thought this was interesting is because I actually have a situation in that I'm that I'm pretty close to where the wife passed and the husband moved on kind of quickly. Um, it was a woman that worked with him, and he moved on pretty quickly, and it almost seemed like the grieving process didn't take place, and it wreaked havoc on the family. Like the the kid How did the wife pass? Cancer.

SPEAKER_04: 5:35

So the grieving could have been done during that.

SPEAKER_03: 5:38

Probably. I mean, it was yeah, it was probably it was like probably about a year process from like finding out till till the passing. But the thing is, when when she passed, the the kids were in this like really deep grief and like you know, going through losing their mother, and the father was like like a month later out on dates with this person and like having a good old time. Okay, well, a month is a month is pretty fast, it was maybe two months, you know, like two months later was like out, like doing his yeah, but Rob, like this is a year later you're getting married. I mean, unless they started dating a month ago and they just got married real quick. Like, I I you know it's it's kind of quick, so it's not but the thing is like um like Ryan Grant got married pretty quickly, but he had nine kids, and I know saints people talk about St. Thomas More. Like St. Thomas Moore, his wife passed, but he also had like a dozen kids. So I don't know if there's nuance to this, right? I don't know I I just don't I guess I'm holding myself as the standard, and I'm saying, like, there's no chance I'm moving on from my wife that quickly, you know. But like, who the hell am I to hold myself up as like the standard bearer of morality? So I don't know. It was just one of those things that just seemed to lack decorum, but it's it's like you also don't want like I'm I'm trying to think of it as my if my mom passed, right?

SPEAKER_04: 7:11

Like I think all your you're all grown, right?

SPEAKER_03: 7:16

So, but Thomas Massey's youngest is like uh 12 or 13, I would think. I think I saw a picture. They had that picture of the whole family with the guns. That was like a couple years back, it wasn't too long ago. I think I think he has like a teen, a young teen girl. Um, like if so, if my if my mom did pass, like you wouldn't want your father to just be in this dark grief forever, but you would want like an appropriate grieving time, and then you'd actually probably be happy for your dad if he saw some light and started like being happy again, you know. So I don't know. What do you you do you don't think there should be some kind of like uh a standard grieving period? Like I would think at least a year, like women. If my wife if I pass that my wife's married within a year, I'm coming back and haunting her. Like, no, that's not okay.

SPEAKER_04: 8:05

Uh I think it no, there shouldn't be a standard because everything is gonna be you know, every situation is different, you know, like if I were to pass now, you know, I have four kids under the age of six. You know, my life insurance will get them a few years at least. But like my but hope in the kids need someone to provide for them.

SPEAKER_03: 8:32

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04: 8:33

The kids are gonna need some sort of father figure to at least protect them and help raise them. So, you know, it like the thing is, like you can say, yeah, maybe she they should wait a certain amount of time, but what if the perfect opportunity or you know, or a good person presents themselves. I don't think you should wait if that's the best option for the family at that point. You're insane.

SPEAKER_03: 8:55

What you want your wife moving on in four months because an opportunity popped up, she's not even worried about you anymore, bro. You I say that stop it. I don't hope something happens to Rob. I'll set you up. Don't worry, you got six weeks after me lose his number. Yeah, I'm gonna be over here still trying to raise money for your family, and hope's gonna have a new husband. Be like, what's going on here?

SPEAKER_04: 9:21

The they no, they'll be fine, they could be fine for 10 years.

SPEAKER_03: 9:25

Well, that's the point. Look, I'm just saying, I I think there could be an appropriate grieving time. Like, I I think a woman, a widow loses her husband. Like, if she if there's a wit, I think a year she has to wear black, she has to wear black for a year. She's not like dating, is not even like an appropriate thing for a year. You think that's crazy?

SPEAKER_04: 9:44

A year it depends on the situation. No, it does, dude.

SPEAKER_03: 9:51

There is enough you're nuts. You're nuts. A year is an appropriate amount of time.

SPEAKER_04: 9:58

How many GoFundMe's have we shared on this show and donated to for families that lost like uh a young husband and they didn't have life insurance? I still think the wife has a year, a year for what for to go for her kids to starve.

SPEAKER_03: 10:16

No, she has to wear black for a year. If the husband left his wife with and she can't live a year without him, then maybe that's fine, I guess, because that guy sucked. That's a failure of a husband. If you didn't leave your wife enough money for a year after you passed. I mean, you have a duty to at least have a year's a year's worth of survival for your family if you go, no?

SPEAKER_04: 10:39

I would think so, yes.

SPEAKER_03: 10:42

I mean, there's a all right, look, and that's a little different for men. A little different for men.

SPEAKER_04: 10:48

Now, I'm not even saying a little different for men.

SPEAKER_03: 10:50

I don't know, because it's different. I think you oh you had six months for men, but they were all half-assed. Six months for men, a year for a woman in black. Like you, like the the possibility of a date isn't even coming on your mind.

SPEAKER_04: 11:06

Okay, here's the thing. Here's the thing your your picture in your head of uh a woman in black morning clothes is probably like the shawl, yes, you know, the dress. He has to basically wear a job. Whereas you're thinking, if I have to wear black for a year, I just black t-shirts.

SPEAKER_03: 11:24

Yes, the woman has to basically look like she's Muslim, she's gotta wear the the whole the head covering everything, she's gotta look like a nun, all right, and she has to she has to be crying for four months straight. Four months of crying. This is why Erica Kirk is making it. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_04: 11:42

Because here's the thing after after after oh after three days of crying, you'd be like, crying too much. I don't trust it.

SPEAKER_03: 11:51

I might. You would if it's a woman, yeah. Well, I probably won't trust it. But all right, we do have to talk about Erica Kirk. No, we don't, yes, we do. Because you have stopped me from talking about this for so long.

SPEAKER_04: 12:04

Oh, I've tried so hard to hold the back.

SPEAKER_03: 12:07

And you have you have not let me talk about this for so long, but from the from the first day she gave her speech, I got like I texted Rob the next day. I was like, I don't know, something's off with that check. You and you snapped.

SPEAKER_04: 12:20

I replied, I replied to say your every mouth do not say that in public.

SPEAKER_03: 12:27

Rob's like, you don't need to say your every intrusive thought. I'm like, I don't know, man. I'm just telling you, there's something not right with this chick. I'm like, there's I said she has like she carried um like as the grieving widow, like the the equity that that position held. If she if she, in my opinion, at the time, I'm like, there's something like she she was coming off to me like and I'm just saying look, I'm just saying this is what it seemed like. Just so everyone knows, I completely disavow what Rob did not agree with this. This is kind of the beauty of this show, is that he and I have very different takes on things. Okay. My initial impression, this was my initial impression, almost like she was like happy that the the spotlight hog is out of the way now, and she can be the star. That's how it came off to me. Okay, and it just real recognize real, right? Aunt, I'm just saying, I know a narcissist when I see one, bro. So I'm watching the the Erica Kirk thing go, and I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I don't know, man. Like the constant fake tears where she's she's only dabbing her left eye with the with the napkin, not the right eye. So she's only got tears out of this one side, and the looking uh, I don't know, man. The whole thing just seems so choreographed, and the the like, I don't know, that first speech how she was just promoting TP USA, and it was like a it was like an acceptance speech at the at the Grammys or something. It was an Oscar speech or something. It was weird.

SPEAKER_04: 14:16

If I died today, tomorrow you would come on here and use my death to promote a voting Babylon. Yeah, yeah, but you're not my husband or my wife.

SPEAKER_03: 14:25

I'm just saying, I don't have to grieve you. Um that's not you're not a spouse. I have some duties to you. Let's not uh I do have you wouldn't wear black for four months. Well, I wear black like this. I'm rocking this. Here's all right. So if you pass, right? If Rob passes, the grieving process is okay. I start a fundraiser for hope and the kids. My goal is to get to a million for you. That's my goal. Like, I'm gonna try and get as close to a million as I can so that hope and the kids are set. Like, that's actually what I'm gonna try and do. I don't know how close I'll get to it, but I will go on every freaking show promoting that. I will go to the ends of the earth to try and get that for you, right?

SPEAKER_04: 15:07

I love how they our audience thinks us talking about our hypothetical deaths is funny.

SPEAKER_03: 15:12

Yeah, well, listen, I'm telling you how this goes. If something happens to Rob, Rob passes, right?

SPEAKER_04: 15:16

Hold on, we do need to talk about a sponsor real quick, actually.

SPEAKER_03: 15:24

We'll get the requisites, we'll get the requisite. I got so the so Rob passes. I I try to I try to raise money for hope and the kids because I do feel I have a duty to them, and then the hunt for a co-host begins on day three, right after the funeral, right after the requiem mass. Day three after the funeral, or are you suggesting day two is the funeral? All right, so so look, you let's say the wake is all right. So let's say you die on a Tuesday. The wake is Friday. Let's say let's say you die on a Tuesday, right? Uh yes. Uh we get we get the wake together by Thursday, right? Friday, Friday, Friday, we get the wake together. I I don't know how does that work with a Sunday? Because you can't you can't fulfill your most funerals are on Saturdays, aren't they? So what would you get a one-day wake for you? Well, maybe we do Thursday, Friday, Saturday, right?

SPEAKER_04: 16:21

What are we, humong? We don't need a three-day wake.

SPEAKER_03: 16:25

Two-day wake, Thursday, Friday's a wake, and then the funeral mass is Saturday.

SPEAKER_04: 16:30

You guys must do funerals different in New York.

SPEAKER_03: 16:33

What do you mean? What do you guys do? A one showing?

SPEAKER_04: 16:37

Yeah, like the night before, and then maybe an hour before the funeral.

SPEAKER_03: 16:41

Oh, we do like we do two, we do two days, and you'll have an afternoon showing and a night showing the one day, afternoon showing and night showing the second day, and then you have the funeral mass.

SPEAKER_04: 16:51

You're put you're putting me in an avoiding babylon shirt for the showings, aren't you?

SPEAKER_03: 16:56

Yes, you're wearing, you're going to wear. Have you accepted Mary as your personal lord and intercessor? Personal personal mother and intercessor personal mother and intercessor. Well, I know what we can't put on that shirt now. Oh, we can't.

SPEAKER_04: 17:13

Well, maybe we should have you accepted Mary as your personal co-redemptor because immediately I think maybe we do need to make a shirt.

SPEAKER_03: 17:19

So, all right, so I'm trying. I'm trying to, yes, we actually should. Okay, I'll have you accepted Mary as your personal co-redemptrix. So funeral mass on Saturday, right? Um I'm doing the fundraiser throughout this time, and then I'd say, so that means there's no show on Thursday, guys. So Rob passes on Tuesday. There's no show Tuesday or Thursday. So I mean that's a grieving period. You guys are missing two shows. So the third show, the following Tuesday, the hunt begins for your replacement.

SPEAKER_04: 17:51

Are you gonna run it like a um America's got talent thing?

SPEAKER_03: 17:55

It'd be like, you know, I'll give out a golden ticket or something. I'll I'll do auditions. I'll probably I'd probably like interview well, I'd probably have like fill-ins for two weeks.

SPEAKER_04: 18:05

Like I, you know, I'd probably have like like um uh send out invites to all the current you know podcasters inviting them on. Make sure not to send one to Trent.

SPEAKER_03: 18:15

And I would bring on the regulars, I'd bring on Hitchborne, Pantile, uh Joshua Charles, and I'd see what the audience thought who I have to do with. We're not scholarly enough for Joshua Charles. That's true. That's true, that's true. Um, so all right, so back to Thomas Massey. Like, I think I think the wife passes a year later, it's like then you start dating, like, but you or don't announce it on Twitter.

SPEAKER_04: 18:47

Okay, but then if he didn't, people would say he's keeping it a secret. Yeah, you're allowed to have a private life. Really? Why the hell are we talking about this then?

SPEAKER_03: 18:59

Well, this is this is why you have to have a private life, like you don't need to announce all this stuff on social media. I'm just saying, so now you know we yeah, on everyone, Robin. Jonathan Piggot would be bugged for a sweet. So but the all right, so I think he should have I think he should have handled that with a little more decorum. I don't know how his kids reacted and stuff, but look, it doesn't look right. You you you go, you lose 45 pounds, you go and pick up a chick half your age. I'm just saying it looks like maybe there was foul play. I'm just saying the evidence doesn't look all right, guys. Settle down, I'm kidding. We gotta relax. Everybody got really mad at me when I made that joke. I don't know, guys. It's gallows humor. I don't know what to tell you guys. Yes, it's a uh it's not a bell jar, it's actually I don't know what it is, it's just a big cup, and I have to make sure it's a big cup, it's a big cup. Um, so yeah, and the and the Erica Kirk thing. Um I did put a clip of Erica Kirk in there that I kind of wanted to play. Um wait, is that the right one though? I wanted the one where she talks about Charlie hearing her in heaven. I don't think that's the right one.

SPEAKER_04: 20:31

I don't think that's the right one. No, that's not the right one.

SPEAKER_03: 20:34

Well, Erica Kirk, uh, when she was interviewed by um uh Jesse Waters, uh said that she tells her kids, if you ever want to talk to daddy, just talk to daddy in heaven, and daddy hears you. Now, this whole like debacle after after Charlie passed about is Charlie Catholic, you know, Charlie wasn't Catholic. They were there was Protestants and Catholics arguing over this. And my point was simply that for a Protestant, like they they may say they don't believe in the communion of saints, they may mock you if you have a devotion to a saint or ask a saint's intercession. But every one of them, if they lose the loved one, if they lost a loved one, intuitively understands that that loved one loved one is still connected to you in some way, and that you can still speak to them and and they'll hear you, you know. So, like if a if a husband loses his spouse, I don't care what his theology is, he will still talk to his wife after she's gonna let you Thomas Maskey and you get remarried in six months and you got a wife half her age. No, boom, all right, thought that was funny.

SPEAKER_04: 21:45

I was just gonna say, unless your wife's Italian, that she talks to you as she haunts you and yells at you.

SPEAKER_03: 21:50

Yeah, um, so I think it's just uh it's almost like like Catholicism is just intuitive, and I think that's how church teaching even developed is just that intuition that when a soul passes on, they're not gone. I think um even C. S. Lewis's like if you ever if you ever know someone who lost a loved one, C. S. Lewis's A Grief Observed is a really good book because it's short, you could read it in one sitting, it's like a 30-minute read. But he talks about how like love reaches into eternity, and he says, if if she like because I love her now, like if she is not now, then she never was. Like if she doesn't exist now, because he loves her still, and that love is an eternal thing. This is almost why I kind of get the argument for pets getting going to be in in heaven, because if you love the pet, like that love stretches into eternity. Now, I don't know if the pet will be in its form that it is in life, but the love you had for your pet, some form of that love will stretch into eternity, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04: 23:03

Coming from the guy who hates all pets.

SPEAKER_03: 23:06

Yeah, yeah. I don't I'm not gonna my I'm not my I don't love my pets, but I know people have this like deep love for their like Don is I think so in the like the agape sort of way.

SPEAKER_04: 23:19

Can you really love something without a rational eternal soul? I think so.

SPEAKER_03: 23:25

I don't know. I'm not I'm not I'm not a pet guy, but I know this.

SPEAKER_04: 23:30

Anthony Anthony's really saying this because he wants to see his coy in heaven.

SPEAKER_03: 23:36

No, I know this. Um, yeah, yeah. Speaking of like widows and widowers, um like we did try to get a dog a few years back, and the dog bit one of my kids' friends, so we had to get rid of the dog. So we gave it, we gave it away, and the guy who took it was a widower. His wife had passed, he was like 65 years old, his wife had passed, and he took the dog. And we checked in with the guy like a year later, and the dog was the guy's best friend. Like the dog went everywhere with the guy, like the dog filled a hole in this guy's life, and they like it. The love this guy had for the dog, like there was something beautiful about it, even though I could care less about the dog itself. Like, the the the love the guy has for the dog, I think will stretch into eternity in some form. I don't know if the dog itself goes into eternity, but that love does last forever. I mean, probably born the koi for a year. There's still there's still one koi and three goldfish left in the pond. Um, so um, all right. Should we talk about this document by the DDF? Uh did you see the uh Diana Montagna clip? No that I put in, throw that up. So Diana Montagna uh put this out. Uh Sparks fly at today's presentation at the Dicassi for the Doctrine of the Faith, a new document. Uh, on some Marian titles regarding Mary's cooperation in the work of salvation, as an Italian layman heatedly denounces points made by the DDF prefect. The second outburst, which I caught on video, came when Professor Granchi said it is necessary to take a clear distance from the idea that Mary comes to stand between God and humanity as a sort of lightning rod, an idea he said Ratzinger himself repeated repeatedly contested. The Italian layman specifically told uh Delhi Vatican that he doesn't represent any particular group. Regarding the title Co-Redemtrics, the new document prepared during the pontificate of Pope Francis with some modifications by Leo states that it would be inappropriate and unhelpful to use the title Co-Redemtrics as many repeated explanations are needed to prevent it from straying from the correct meaning. Alright, so play the clip of the guy. Oh, it doesn't have the subtitles? Oh, there they are.

SPEAKER_00: 26:22

There's something interesting, he says.

SPEAKER_03: 26:49

Okay, all right, you can pause it. That's all I kind of wanted to get to. So this is kind of the this is kind of the idea that almost like they're presenting this thing where it's like, well, well, God is angry, but Mary is gentle, and she'll get you in, even though God is this angry guy. And it's not, it's like there's there's such a lack of understanding, and I think a lot of it comes from like people's personal experience with their own mothers and not understanding certain things about Our Lady. And these are certain things that I picked up. I've talked about it on the show before. Like, one was with my mom, and one was with my wife. The one with my mom was when my brother was going through some really bad drug use, and all the men in the family wanted to cut my brother off and like give him tough love. And my mom just kept like we we would have at the time thought it was enabling, but it was it was this position that she took of showing enough mercy to him that when he finally did reach his lowest point, she was the one that he reached out to. And understanding my mom's position there helped me see our lady that like a mother's love is just like just pure mercy. Like they it's like they almost don't have the the the they they almost don't have the tough love in them, you know. They just have this this disposition towards mercy, and that helped me see our lady's role. Like, even when you're in your worst sin, you're almost too ashamed to go to Christ with it. You feel you feel a comfort going to our lady and just begging her to bring you back to her son. The other one was with seeing my wife react when my daughter was going through something. My daughter was dealing with a bunch of kids being mean to her. And when I saw that situation, I was kind of just like, All right, you know, we'll get through this, we'll get through this. But my wife actually felt the pain of my daughter in a way that is unexplainable. Like my wife was distraught, not because my daughter was distraught as much as she felt the pain of the things these girls said to my daughter. And it made me see how our lady suffered differently than anybody else at the foot of that cross. Like, like a mother witnessing her child going through pain. Because even as a father, right, if you're if your child has a splinter or a stub toe, like you'll do you're like, I'll literally cut my own foot off right now to spare my kid that pain. But a a mother will actually feel that pain in a different way than the father will. So seeing that helped me understand like how our lady actually suffered the pains of the cross in a different way than anybody else could have. But it also makes me see how when we're all distraught about some of the things happening in the Vatican right now, or even our Latin mass being taken away, or seeing how the hierarchy is flippant about certain things, like our lady is suffering. with us when we go through that pain and she and she's she's she's our lady of sorrows for a reason like she she truly like experiences that pain with us in a way that I don't know it it just it it helps me have a deeper devotion to her and it helps me get through some of the crazier things that we're witnessing in the church right now yeah I just don't know why the Vatican's so intent on destroying the faith I was raised in I'm I'm kind of glad they uh they didn't try to define this well yeah they would have they would have they would have butchered it but they like on one hand they defend the theology behind co-redemptrics and mediatrics of all graces and then say not to say it it's like well then just don't come up with the freaking document at all you idiots yeah they would have been better off not not having the document um yeah I just but I I really do see it like they care more about a bunch of Protestants who will never come to the faith than they do about people who've been you know raised Catholic their whole lives a bunch of frauds that's what they are the um the thing is if you if you do see the church in its passion right now though you understand what's happening to our lady and she's suffering and like them it's not like they demoted her it's just they don't exalt her they don't adorn her with these August if you think about it how many homosexuals have some sort of mother wound? So it makes sense that all the homosexuals in the Curia and in the Vatican would have no idea how to properly you know give honor and venerate a mother because they have issues with their own mothers yeah that's definitely probably part of it but it's it's also this like they they they actually care more i like my tweet this morning was uh in an attempt to not confuse the Protestants the hierarchy has decided to confuse Catholics you know like like they the there's something so strange about it because when the church actually proclaims a dogma of our lady like when they proclaim the Immaculate Conception they think it's going to turn Protestants off but the Protestants that get turned off are the ones with the hardened hearts God doesn't I mean God is the one who converts hearts not us so you're you really should just preach the truth and leave it to God to soften someone's heart instead of trying to condescend to this Protestant sensibility that it won't actually convert any Protestants you see the Protestants gloating all over Twitter like and none of them are going to be like oh well the church said this so maybe I'll be Catholic none of them they're just gloating so it makes no sense it's just but I see it as part of the passion of the church and it's of course they're not going to adorn her with these glorious titles and things like that because that's not going to happen yet. It will happen she will be she will be declared Mediatrix.

SPEAKER_04: 32:54

It's just not time for that yet I think it's ironic that you have Tuco Fernandez who so concerned about causing confusion with Core Redentrix is the man who published Fiducious supplicants and caused more confusion than that title ever could it's like um like the the the idea of scandalizing Catholics doesn't cross their minds anymore.

SPEAKER_03: 33:20

They don't care if they scandalize Catholics they care if they're Catholic faith is yeah um there uh they're they're reducing the Blessed Virgin Mary to the lowest common Protestant denominator that they will accept they don't care if Props become Catholic it's about synodality it's uh it's kind of like Francis when he referred to our lady as his sister in Christ like it was that was like one of the most offensive things he said in my opinion it's like don't demote our lady the mother of god to our sister in Christ like she's just you know I don't know it's it's it's just appropriate for the times we're in um no they don't know normal Catholics at all um but the the thing is that like when things like this happen it should drum up some kind of anger in you and a and a and a a desire to defend your mother and it will increase your love for her. It's like when we talked about the statues like uh that that Protestant who purposely smashed the statue of our lady and I said if somebody did that in front of me I would punch them in the face like I know it's a statue but it's you're doing it to disrespect my mother and that I would punch you in the face if if if you did that in front of me intentionally and that would that would be an appropriate reason yeah um and then the other thing was um I kind of been going through the book of Genesis uh because we've been talking about the theme of the older and younger brother a lot and I'm I'm like you know what I should really go back and reread these stories it's been a few years and I I wanted to really be able to discuss the stories from a a a deeper level than just saying Cain and Abel Jacob and Esau um Joseph and his brothers like I wanted to really dive back into those stories and I forgot how like especially before the Ten Commandments come how wild the world is you know like it is it is a wild wild world the old especially in the book of Genesis that is being described there like it's not just that Jacob takes Esau's birthright he does take his birthright and then he gets the blessing at the end of Isaac's life but Esau like loses it like totally loses it and he's like I am going to I'm going to kill Jacob like he has this venom he wants to kill Jacob so Jacob then his father tells him go to your mother's brother's and tell him you want you need a wife so he basically goes to his uncle and marries his first cousin right but it's it's he f he goes to his uncle falls in love with Rebecca and Rebecca is the younger sister and he tells his uncle I'll work for you for seven years so that I can marry Rebecca so he works for seven years then on the wedding night they get Jacob drunk and they slip the other sister in and he he sleeps with the wrong sister and it's just so crazy how they describe these stories like he was that out of it that he slept with the wrong sister and didn't know it was the wrong sister until the next morning and he's mad at his uncle for fooling him and the uncle says don't worry about it just celebrate the wedding for the week and then I'll give you the other daughter and you work another seven years for me. So Jacob's now got two wives they're sisters he's an indentured servant for 14 years he's so he's married to his first cousins right so did you see the you I told you to put this tweet in the in the thing uh the the Catholic church gets a lot of hate bring that tweet up Rachel I'm sorry Rachel no Rebecca Rachel wait Rachel is it Rachel or Rebecca Rebecca is Jacob's mom Rachel is the wife I don't know one of the two I don't know uh the Catholic church gets a lot of hate but let's give them credit where it's due they banned cousin marriage broke up the clans boosted Europe's IQ built trust and even scrapped usury in short they accidentally invented civilization accidentally so like the Protestants went nuts over this and I actually like I started asking them like where in the Bible does it say you can't marry your first cousin because actually in the Bible it's promoting cousin marriage and even before that uh sibling marriage sibling marriage like not and not just that like Abraham goes to a town with his wife Sarah and tells everybody no it's just my sister don't worry and let's his wife get taken like I understand why women have this view that they've been oppressed it's like no before Christianity women were just like traded off for things it's like all right we're going into this town just say you're my sister so that they don't kill me and now she's getting passed around the town you know and that happens not just with Abraham it happens with Jacob as well with it with his like he does the same thing. It's so nuts how they treat women in in the old testament before Christianity then Christianity comes and so much of this plays into our lady like the understanding of our lady being the crown of creation elevates woman to a dignity that is equal to man this doesn't exist before Christianity it doesn't exist before Paul's writings Paul putting on on the slave masters telling them you actually can't just go and rape your slaves like there's a bodily sacrality to your slave because of the resurrection because Christ is risen from the dead all of our bodies are sacred and holy and actually marriage is a reflection of the church and like this theology is extremely deep and if it wasn't for christianity raising the dignity of women to the same stuff as man like this is if you read the old testament you actually see how women were just dealt with and not just that you can see the conniving uh the like you almost understand how there can be trickery in in the way like Jews see things because even Jacob right he's dealing with his his father in his father in law now and he wants to leave and the father in law is like no don't leave don't leave and he's like okay well I'll tell you what I'll stay but you have to let me start keeping the some of the goats and sheep but I'll only keep the ones with spots like you can keep all the pure white ones but I get the ones with spots and his father in law's like okay fair deal Jacob then breeds all the ones with spots to be like really good and he he lets all the white ones just like kind of shrivel away so he like does this trickery to make his flock way better it's like and he deals with his father in law in a very devious way it's it's really interesting how it's like he makes this covenant with him and he makes a deal with him and then he does all this shady stuff on the side and then God still kind of raises Jacob up and he like makes Jacob into Israel. He's like you are now Israel and then Israel has these 12 sons and it's this story don't forget that yeah yeah in what you're saying Jacob is the Gentiles Jacob is because he's the second born right Esau would have been the story of the older brother not getting the birthright is the theme throughout Genesis throughout the entire book and it's it's it goes from Cain and Abel it goes to Isaac and Ishmael like Ishmael is the firstborn and it goes to Isaac instead right and then and then Isaac born illegitimately well right because it was the concubine's child but it's still the firstborn and it goes to Isaac the secondborn then Isaac um has Jacob and Esau and Esau's firstborn Isaac uh Jacob is holding onto his heel as he's coming out but the blessing that that Isaac gives him is like you're you will rule over your brother and your brother will hate you so but there's this beautiful reunification of Jacob and Esau so after after Jacob spends all this time with his father in law he finally does leave and goes back to the land of his fathers and when he goes he sends an emissary to go meet Esau and he's like Tell my lord I have gifts for him and just like he's just praying his brother doesn't want to kill him and then when he sees his brother Esau rejoices that he's back and they have this beautiful reunification so like there is something very important about that reunification at the end and the same thing happens with Jacob's kids who Jacob becomes Israel and then he has 12 sons and the youngest is Joseph and Joseph is it's Rebecca it's not it's not Rachel Rachel is Rachel is Isaac and I'm I'm sorry Rachel is Isaac's wife Jacob marries Rebecca and her sister but Rebecca is barren for her for like most of their life and he has Jacob winds up having kids with the sister and then two concubines and then he has one kid with with Rebecca. So Rachel is the wife of Jacob Rachel's Jacob's wife so who's Rebecca Rebecca's Isaac's wife yeah I just read it today too this is crazy yes uh yes Rebecca is Isaac's wife Isaac's wife I'm getting Rebecca and Rachel mixed up I'm Catholic guys I'm not even supposed to know my Bible what do you want from me I'm not supposed to be reading my Bible I'm gonna get in trouble for this so all right so so Rachel has one kid and that's Joseph and because it's Rachel's only kid Jacob loves him the most the brothers are so jealous the father makes him this beautiful coat that's Joseph in the amazing technicolor dream coat on Broadway if you guys remember but the brothers are so jealous of Joseph that they go and they sell Joseph to the Ishmaelites like to the descendants of Ishmael he ends up getting sold to Potiphar and then he winds up becoming like the prince of Egypt there's a famine in Egypt the brothers come back and there's this beautiful reunion but it's Judah the brother Judah who sells him to the Ishmaelites for 20 pieces of silver which if you add inflation by the time christ comes it's 30 pieces of silver that Judas sells them if you add inflation till now it's seven thousand dollars seven thousand dollars for per post on X but it is it it is this theme throughout the entire book and it's like you will hear everybody talk about no no no there's going to be this beautiful conversion of the Jews at the end there is there absolutely is but we're not at that time yet we're at the time where Esau wants to kill his brother we're at the time where Cain kills able we're at the time in the story where his brothers sell him into slavery. Like that's just the point in the story we're at but we will come to a point in the story where there's going to be a a unif a reunification of the brothers and I'm I'm gonna I'm going to go through the entire old testament I'm just I just got through the book of Genesis in like three days it took me so it's uh it's just that we're constantly talking about this theme and it's one that if if you if you're not looking for it you don't see it but then once you see it it's the entire theme of how the birthright's supposed to go to the firstborn and it's and it's Christ and Adam too like Christ is the new Adam because Adam was supposed to be in the garden and and live a life in the presence of God but Christ has to come and he's the and he's the second I mean he's really the only begotten son but it's still he's the new Adam. Right and it's that theme throughout the entire thing and then it gets same thing with Eve and the new Eve.

SPEAKER_01: 46:20

Yeah so it's I don't know it's an important theme that runs throughout the old testament so and I and I don't I don't remember how it plays out after you get out of Genesis but I'm gonna get through all that well um Aaron and Moses are brothers right and Aaron's the older brother and yet yeah Aaron's the older brother but God talks to Moses God talks to Moses he does make Aaron a priest but he also gives Ishmael a blessing like that there and Moses and Aaron are separated and then they do get this unification when Moses comes back so that's in the Exodus um then you have Deuteronomy is kind of like a recap right yeah then Joshua right so uh Moses doesn't get to go into the promised land but Joshua does and Joshua is yeshua like Jesus is Joshua that's the same name so Joshua takes okay bright and gray I mean it is though like I know the name Joshua is Jesus right I know yes I am talking about what is happening now like this is this is why this this topic is um on everybody like this is why this topic is actually kind of important um and it's why everything everything in the news is about look we're gonna have to play it I wasn't going to we're gonna have to play it all right go with uh Tucker on Ben I don't know what you should let me go solo tonight it would have been a good solo show you didn't want to be here you gotta be kidding me it's not right oh I'm just tired I know I know but this topic is important so let's let's let's do uh we got Tucker Carlson and Dave Smith and there's a couple things from this that I thought were interesting I did just make the Chewbacca noise but not as good as Stephen Garon from Catholic Comedy makes the chew cale wants to talk about this kale i i want to talk about this with kale so kale kale kale sees this from a different point of view than us right um kale actually has jewish ancestry i i want to do another show with um with gideon also because i think this topic is actually very important oh can we just have a week without talking about the jews not when it's in the news constantly i mean it's in the news it's on your twitter feed that's a little different than the news i mean obviously this this part it's in the news rob it's like i understand there is a there is a war in the republican party right now over this good tear down destroy it screw them just uh okay Jews in the news um yeah no all right let's go with this talented people uh but then is like very afraid that's and I think a lot of people a lot of the neocons and neocon adjacent people believe this stuff like they believe that there's like a a fourth Reich on the I know because I know a lot of them and they text me and like I can't be no Alex Baronson who's like a very fragile person but like a good nice guy and very smart and I've like promoted Baronson for oh my gosh. Me too for for real you know because I I I really agree I thought he was brave but at the same time like a very fearful person very fearful and I know a lot of people like this uh who I really like and have always really liked and they're texting me like I can't believe you're a Nazi like I'm gonna have to flee the United States and Ben is like this Ben fears that he's gonna get hurt. It's like I look at this and I'm like I don't think I think Ben's fine no it's like who's more likely to get hurt me or Ben you know it's like not even really close but but that doesn't matter he and then I want to go a lot of these I want to play all three clips in a row because all three of these are very relevant.

SPEAKER_03: 50:18

You don't want to talk about it I I will after the Mark Levin clip and then and then and then we'll play the last one because this is this is very much with the the things that we talked about with Maudsley and the reason that that the Holocaust narrative as this mythbearing load is actually like you think it's you think it's what they've done to us with that narrative but what they've done to Jews with that narrative like by by telling that story to them and making them think that if anybody talks about this topic there's going to be another holocaust like you you see this this is the reaction to Tucker even talking to Nick Puentes like that's what this is about is them thinking that anybody that says anything it's gonna was another holocaust that's been done with every pogrom you know the Jews have talked about forever right I mean like you know even I mean during the time of of of the Bible you have them talking you know all they talk about is the last time they were wronged by the Babylonians or by you know the uh by um the the Seleucids then Rome and then Rome again and then the Holocaust is just the most recent one but it's the one we're dealing with it's the one we're dealing with now yes very true okay so you want the which one do you want?

SPEAKER_01: 51:54

Just go to the Mark Liban one stranglehold on the party that is the goal but I just want to say again as they say these radical really kind of crazy things they convince themselves and they become dangerous. I'm just saying that and and also tormented really like really unhappy like imagine I mean I talked to you know Mark Levin I talked to him right after Charlie was killed I called Mark Levin and I called Ben and I said I don't want to fight at all with you I'm actually not obsessed with Israel. You clearly are but I do think we agree on a lot of things and like let's not fight I called them both and I said that and they were both nice to me about it very nice and then Amelia started attacking me again whatever they can't help themselves but but Levin did say something amazing to me. He's like everyone hates Jews they're Jew haters everywhere and I'm fighting the Jew haters and it's like I mean I guess if you spend your life on Twitter you run into a lot of Jew haters but in in real life America like no that's not actually most people are really nice and there is no Nazi movement building in America. That's just fake and if but he but I really think Levin believes that and I think he had one of these like kind of crazy childhoods with like a screechy mother who just scared the shit out of every day of his childhood or something like that. I mean clearly this guy's had a lot of like trauma in his personal life but it almost doesn't matter the cause he really believes he said it to me on the phone Shapiro too and a lot of other good people who are not necessarily crazy are convinced that the Fourth Reich is rising. And that's bad for them as people because it torments them and makes them unhappy and alienates their wives and deforms their children right it's all bad but it's also bad for America because panicked hysterical people are capable of doing you know things they wouldn't do if they weren't panicked and hysterical so we we do need to like convince everybody the fourth Reich is not rising settle down I'm not a Nazi I hate the Nazis let me tell you how I hate the Nazis and why that's what I wanted to talk about.

SPEAKER_03: 54:01

Like if if this conversation continues and they really do perceive like this is getting more dangerous like I worry about what their reaction is if they can't if they're not successful in their canceling of Tucker and their canceling of Fuentes like I worry what the next step is they will do something that causes uh that brings about yeah the it's a self-fulfilling prophecy is what it would end up being I think that yeah I think you're right I think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy like I think things get worse and it's it's kind of strange because like Kale was talking about this today like the like the strisand effect of of telling people don't watch Nick is what's making people go and watch Nick in and I don't watch Tucker is making people go watch sucker like this five million plus views on that Tucker Nick interview 17 17 million yeah on not just the YouTube one on all platforms maybe right I think on Twitter 17 million on Twitter there's like over five million on YouTube right because all of all of Shapiro's fans were saying how Shapiro got to 24 million faster than they got to 17 million or yeah I don't trust Twitter's views though like it that's like somebody just like stops on the like it doesn't mean people actually watched it like what whereas YouTube people five million views on YouTube means like there were five million views on YouTube. I I think they in a way they and I not using they in the nebulous sort of conspiratorial sense I'm saying people like uh Levin and Shapiro and such um they they want the the threat of Fuentes et al to grow so that they can justify for their action so that their hatred is justified because if if Fuentes is really canceled right and no one's listening to him well then who cares about what Levin and Shapiro are saying you know Levin and Shapiro need their they need there to be a thread it's interesting because before October 7th like people weren't really talking about this like October 7th is what brought this all out in the mainstream conversation like the but the the way this is all going down it's like they're so used to being able to say somebody's anti-Semitic and then get like a few people to endorse that idea and then that person just gets shunned and there's no way to like somebody somebody said I forgot who but they were like there used to be a time like even with Pat Buchanan like they accused Pat Buchanan of being an anti-Semite and he was just like put out of the conversation Tucker added to that right um Ben Shapiro put a tweet out talking about rant Ron Paul and he was like you're gripping that pen as you would the neck of a Jew like Ron Paul like what are you even talking about like like what this is but because they did that like now when they say it about Nick it it has no sting right like there's just no there's no sting to it because they use that freaking card so much so much and now now when people are actually talking like they they used it when it wasn't necessary and by constantly throwing that refrain out over and over now people don't really care about the refrain so much and there's no way to cancel people out of these conversations anymore there's always going to be some platform where we're able to have these conversations and people will follow a person they enjoy to whatever platform they're going on so there's no way to actually shut that conversation down anymore. So I do see vitriol and animosity building against these two things especially when you when you force people to kind of um self-select and move right to these these separate smaller platforms you are you're causing them to be in an echo chamber so you are causing them to become more extreme you know so either they they really don't see that and are um just stupid and you know are and or they're doing it purposefully you know once again to drive more extremism I don't know I don't know where this goes man I just I think I look I think all of this just gets more and more amplified what do you think happens in the Republican Party with this like I I don't I think there is a major split in the Republican Party at this point. I don't know what happens like do I have no faith that we will actually ever get an America first party that actually takes care of this stuff I don't see that happening so I don't know I don't know where this goes from here. I mean Kale can't join us tonight but I really do want to have this conversation with Kale because I I spoke with Kale yesterday on the phone and um like he made the point uh I texted to you this morning Rob Kale was like okay I watched an episode of Nick and when Rob and I talk you'll hear me go you'll I'll say like a lot I'll say you know I'll pause for a second to think Nick will do a three hour stream of consciousness without a pause word and just flow and not Think about what he's saying. He'll just come, he'll go on this rant for three hours straight and just nonstop, have point after point, hammering down, hammering down. The kid is unbelievably talented. Like it's it's abnormal how talented he is when he has points to make. Um, so like even now, like I'm pausing to think about what I'm going to say next. Like he'll just he'll just flow on a topic. So it's but he's also got the the problem of all the times he's done those three-hour streams of consciousness where he'll just he'll be trying to make jokes and he'll say stuff, and then they're going back and clipping these crazy things that he said, which I mean, I have that gallows sense of humor. I have a very like I like irony in humor. Like, I think the cookie segment was kind of funny, you know. Like, I'm not, I'm not shocked by it. The thing that the only thing Nick has said that kind of was I was like, that was just stupid, was when he said he liked Stalin. Because Stalin was so reprehensible, like what he did to Catholics. If you ever go back and listen to Daryl Cooper's anti-humans episode, he talks about what Stalin did to the Catholics in Russia to okay. So these these priests would still have hope, even in this desolate situation where they would have hope in Christ, right? So they were trying to make the thing those Catholics were using for their hope and make them despise it. So they would make priests consecrate feces and eat it, they would make them have these orgies and dress one of the people up as the blessed mother. The thing that they looked to for their hope wound up became becoming the the point of their torture.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:49

I mean, not to not to defend Joseph Stalin here. A lot of that was done prior to Stalin, um more in the the the Lenin era by before Stalin comes to power. Yeah, I mean, so I mean Stalin was no Christian, you know. That that's that's obvious. He was he was an Orthodox seminarian for a while actually growing up, but um that was more that was more the the the Trotsky sort of yeah, yeah, that wasn't so much Stalin, but um yeah, I I think people misunderstand what Nick was saying about the whole Stalin thing, not once again, not to defend Stalin or even well that I'm glad we're talking about this because I don't know I I only know what I know.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:39

So you're like if you're like if you're give a different perspective on it and defend it, I'd want you to.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:45

For those of you who listen to to Nick on Tucker, which is really the only longer than five-minute clip I've ever seen of the guy, right? He talks about how his goal was to um to eventually you know take over the the conservative institutions, right? That he saw as being so corrupted. Um and if you look at at Stalin, you have you know, with the Russian Revolution, you have Lenin, uh, and Lenin's right hand right hand man, Trotsky. Stalin was kind of there in the mix. You know, they were really the top three. But Lenin and Trotsky both wanted a much more international communist movement. They wanted Russia, it was the first step in a worldwide you know revolution of the proletariat against the bur, you know, bourgeois bourgeoisie. Um they didn't want communism to be Russian, it was just the first step. And Trotsky especially saw a worldwide revolution. Stalin saw the opposite. He wanted to use communism to strengthen Russia and the Soviet Union in a not necessarily in a nationalistic sort of way, at least not initially, but especially after World War II started. You know, he's they he saw nationalism, Russian nationalism, as the what only way to combat you know Germany. So obviously he was still communist, he wasn't, you know, he the planned economy, all of that sort of stuff. But he instead of he started using power to to build these national institutions up, and he was incredibly effective at it. I mean, you know, Russia Rob is awake.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:30

You bring up Russian history and Rob Parks right up to the body.

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:33

I do prior to the Russian Revolution, Russia was largely backwards. I mean, they serfdom had just been abolished shortly before, and serfdom was not the same way like medieval feudalism was in Western Europe, it was way harsher. Um, Russia had very few railroads, they really had no industrial centers, it was an agrarian peasant society prior to the Russian Revolution, and it didn't change much until from then until Stalin. Stalin turned Russia into an industrial powerhouse through very destructive um five-year plans. Don't get me wrong, they killed millions of people, you know, many people starved, so on and so forth. But it was effective and it created a nation that could hold their own against Germany. Um Nick sees all that effectiveness, and that's what he says he um he admires. Stalin's will to power, you know, Stalin's will to do what he needs to do, not that he admires the you know his communist politics or his anti-Christian, you know, worldview or anything like that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:45

So somebody said um something about Hitler. I wanna I wanna find it. Uh the heck did it go? Uh shoot. He said something like like we were we were just saying Stalin was bad, what about Hitler or something like that? And it's like the thing is if you just go through the um the Darryl Cooper um World World War II preamble, like when you're going through the preamble where he just kind of lays out what he's going to talk about, and he starts going through what the Jewish propaganda was before World War II started. And that they were writing in newspapers that they were going to use eugenics to wipe out the German population, right? They were going to um give every man a vasectomy and tie every woman's tubes, and they were going to do it in a bloodless manner, but they were going to they the after World War I they felt that Germans had to go. And now they printed this in like the New York Times, and Goebbels basically grabs it and uses it as propaganda saying, look, your lives are on the line, like they are trying to wipe Germany out. Like, there's there's a lot that goes into that story that we're not even allowed to discuss or talk about. It's just uh it's one of those myth-bearing stories where you're not allowed to question any of it. So when you start learning the history of it, and that if you try to see it from where the German's point of view was, you just look like a bad guy, like you just look like you're evil and you're an anti-Semite. But no, if you if you actually go into any war or any like every every war that starts, the people who are fighting think they are the good guy in that war. So, you know, we have this idea that America, the you know, the you were we it was the axis of evil and and the allies fighting, like there was no good and bad guys like that when you really start seeing Versailles.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:59

It was um it was America and Great Britain that created really all the bad guys of World War II. You have the the the unequal and unfair peace treaty of Versailles that that takes Germany, which was you know the the most industrialized um nation in Europe and basically you know kicks it to the girt dirt and stomps on it for for years under the the ineffective Weimar Republic. You know, we you gotta understand America and Great Britain were literally um starving Germany throughout the peace process, right? When they when they signed the armistice on November 11th, 1918, the British warships didn't leave the coast of Germany. No, they stayed there and not a not an ounce of food got in that country while we were coming up with the the Treaty of Versailles. I mean, how screwed up is that? How many thousands and thousands of children starved to death while we were making Germany sign uh you know more or less an unconditional surrender for a war that was started by well really by by Serbia in Russia? So I mean we we created the conditions you know of that caused an entire people to to hate themselves, to to feel wronged, which you know led to Nazi Germany at the same time, you know, the we left Russia off to hang during World War I, and then to the point where Germany can send Lenin over to cause the Russian Revolution, and we don't provide nearly enough assistance to help them fight the communists throughout the Russian Civil War. So there we go ahead and create the you know the Soviet Union. I mean, we were literally created the the two the you know the two big enemies of the 20th century, yeah, Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:57

Yeah, and then when you also understand how, like in in in a modern context, to to see how Israel has an ethno-state, they understand the importance of identity and having an identitarian state, and they understand the point of nationalism, but we're not allowed to have that. And the reason we're not allowed to have that is because when Germany started seeing like taking pride in their nation and seeing themselves as an as a as a people and going, okay, we have to try to figure out how to fix something because after World War I, after that Treaty of Versailles, they're destitute, their currency is complete garbage. They're and Hitler comes in and he's like, We need to take pride in ourselves. We're Germans, and we need to start rooting out the usury, and we have to get rid of the pornography, and we have that. He starts getting these people to look at their own nation and want to fix it. It's it's the scariest thing to the older brother. Because if like if you're if you have an ethno state and you take pride in your state, then you as long as we're all fighting with each other, like so much of the modern politics, the stupid stuff with the woke stuff and the trans stuff, is to keep us all at war with one another so we don't see the things that are actually causing the crisis in this country. And the thing is, at this moment, what you're starting to get is people talking about the actual crisis in this country and the roots of it and the problems of it. And that freaks them out because if you really start looking at where the like me and Rob were talking about the other day with the way that this country spends money, we're we're barely able to pay the interest on the national debt right now. Like the interest on the national debt is bigger than our budget. We went up like a trillion dollars in three weeks or something. Like it's just it's climbing at such an astronomical rate at this point that our money is going to be worthless soon. And once you get to the point where your money's worthless, like that that's what when once people start starving, that's why the EBT thing was such a dangerous thing. Because once people stop getting food, like that's when violence starts occurring. As long as we're all fighting about these stupid issues and we're fighting over abortion and we're fighting over men and women's sports, you're not looking at the grand picture of what is happening in our country. And what's happening in our country is the next generation cannot afford housing, nobody can get a job to sustain to sustain a family anymore. We're like the country is falling apart financially, more like we're completely demoralized. You don't don't know who your neighbor is anymore. It it's all coming apart at the seams right now. And these people actually talking about these issues is scaring the hell out of those people because those people have a lot to do with the way modern society is formed. So that's why that's why this is all getting so contentious, and I'm worried about where it goes.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:04

Because I mean, while obviously uh being proud of your your nation, your country, and and wanting it to succeed and and putting it before others is all right and good. Like um, you know, the the the down the big downside of of the Nazi movement, you know, even prior to World War II even starting, was was their almost um idolization uh of the nation, of the state. You know, that's what um that's what the Pope came out against in um mit Brennender's sword was you know the the idolization of the of the nation and state, you know, to a to a place that puts it over what you know nature would put it. So I mean they're definitely definitely can go too too far, and that's what is going to happen. Um I I fear if if people like like Ben and Levin continue to push what they're pushing, they're gonna get what they fear.

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:12

Yeah, it's a it is a concern, man. Like that that this this whole Republican and Jewish coalition they came out with the other day is is worrisome. Just because of the rhetoric they're saying, like it's just they're they're making this 10,000 times worse. They're just making it 10,000 times worse. They'd be better off just ignoring it and just going on about like they're making this thing so much worse. Just let people let people talk about stuff and stop freaking out about it. That is what's making it so crazy.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:47

And every time they they they bring it up, they lose another not small percentage of Gen Z men.

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:56

Yeah, I more than just Gen Z men, I think a lot of people are still like because I I was talking to I was talking to guys at work about this. I'm like, I'm like, what like what are your impressions? Like, I don't I just guys that would never have thought about this, guys that were basically neocons up until the past year or so, like they're all starting to look at this whole situation differently, and it's because something that was in some kind of like a niche corner of the internet is now in the mainstream conversation because everybody's freaking out about a conversation talk like that conversation talk I had with Nick would have just been a blip, like it wouldn't have been that big of a deal if the reaction to it wasn't the conversation itself was I'm not gonna say boring because I I like I said it was the really the only time I've ever watched more than five minutes of of Nick, so it was interesting to me in that sense, but um what they actually talked about was rather boring, was you know it was it was a nothing burger.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:48

Did you see Theo from Two Two Cities critique of it? I saw him, yeah, but I I don't recall what it was.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:57

He he was like, Everybody's making such a big deal out of this. Nick blew a great opportunity to talk about the synagogue and all this stuff, and I'm like, that that just wasn't going to happen. Like, that's not I I don't it just wasn't going to happen, but what it did was it got people to go and look at Nick's other stuff, and then you go look at some of Nick's other stuff, and Nick gets into like he wasn't gonna do that on Tucker's show, but it's all right. We're gonna jump over to locals. We'll uh we'll talk about some stuff over there.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:26

What what can we talk about on locals? Yeah, I got some stuff.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:29

Don't worry, we always got stuff we can talk about on locals. Okay, we'll do we'll do a short local show. Um let me think. Do we have anything for locals? We got something. We always got something. I don't know, you want to call it a rap? We can rap it. Oh, I know what I want to talk about. Abby Johnson. I want to talk about Abby Johnson.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:52

We could also talk about what Lila said about uh Lila and Abby Johnson.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:57

The two of them. I I definitely want to talk about that because we'll do it over there. We'll do it over there because I don't I don't want to I don't want to start a war with everybody yet, but yet yet it's gonna come to it. Who's everybody?

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:17

Well the thing is um because you know me, I'm always up for a good war with everyone.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:26

Should we do it here? You want to just do it here? You want to do it here when we'll skip locals tonight? We can do it here.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:33

No, the locals people always get pissed when we do that. Right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:36

All right, let's do locals because I got a lot to say on it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:38

Just hold on. I'm trying to log into my I'm trying to log into locals.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:43

Give me a minute. Everybody saying do it here. Go get a local subscribe. How do you guys like this show and you don't support us there?

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:51

Honestly, honestly, your inability to pay five bucks to support us is a little you know what.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:58

Just come to locals, guys. It's like, come on. I don't get it. You guys like our show. We're probably like the the the last show standing out here.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:10

Yeah, we're we're saving you 10 by 10 bucks a month by staying independent. It's true.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:16

It would have cost you guys 10 bucks a month for us.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:19

No, 15. Oh, there's no there's no eight dollar there is, but it doesn't include everything they said it did.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:28

Oh, I didn't know that. For the price of a cup of coffee, you can support a podcast.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:37

Okay, I I did throw the link now in in the live chat.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:43

Just just guys, it's five bucks a month.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:45

Oh, by the way, we forgot to talk about our sponsor.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:48

Oh, we could do that now before we cut out. Uh, we're the worst. Uh the okay, so the Christ the King sale is over, right?

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:55

The Christ the King sale is over, yes.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:59

But if you go to RecucentSellars.com, uh they still have 10% off. So you don't get the 20% off. You guys missed out on that, but you still get 10% off. Recucin Sellers is an amazing um what it's not a not just a winery. What do what do they call it?

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:15

A uh it's a wine, it's a well, it's a winery and family farm.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:20

I know, but what do you like when you're going out not just to the wine? Vineyard, there you go. It's a vineyard. I don't know why I couldn't think of that. I'm tired, guys. Uh, yes, they are a uh a winery, vineyard, family farm, but they're an amazing Catholic family that supports us. They let us talk about the most controversial things and they still love us. Um, we are, I don't know if they're gonna stay with us throughout the whole year, but we have some other sponsorships coming. You know what else we got? Cameron O'Hearn on Thursday. I'm telling you guys, do not miss that show because we are going to make it very, very uncomfortable for Cameron. He has no idea, but we're going to put his feet to the fire and ask him why we were not in episode three.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:02

You know, apart from the reason of only having 1200 subscribers at that point.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:07

And Molly says get the Fuji apples from Recky Sin Sellers. So they yeah, they have wine, they ship to most states, but they also have fruit. Go check them out.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:17

He might not have known, but he knows now.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:19

No, he's not gonna know. He don't watch our show. He don't watch us, he don't watch our show. He's gonna be totally surprised. We're gonna hold his feet to the fire. We want to know why we weren't on episode three and why they keep stealing all our show ideas. It's gonna be a fun show. So definitely check us out Thursday.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:35

And if you guys are not I just want to know why produce why well that producer Jake. Not not producer Jake, Joe McClain's producer, Jake, but producer Jake from Mass of the Ages, why he doesn't watch us anymore. That's a good question.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:49

Is he still with Mass of the Ages? Did he die? I don't know. But I want to talk about Abby Johnson. So if you guys want to if you guys want to hear us talk about Abby Johnson, come come come uh come check us out.

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:00

Okay, I'm gonna start cutting these here. So goodbye, everyone.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:11

I wish they had a better way of doing this. Yeah, you should be able to cut them all at once.

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:16

Or something, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:18

I mean, you usually put an out.