Avoiding Babylon
Avoiding Babylon was started during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic. During these difficult and dark days, when most of us were isolated from family, friends, our parishes, and even the Sacraments themselves, this channel was started as a statement of standing against the tyrannical mandates that many of us were living under. Since those early days, this channel has morphed into an amazing community of friends…no…more than friends…Christian brothers and sisters…who have grown in joy and charity.
As we see it, our job here at Avoiding Babylon is to remind ourselves and those who enjoy the channel that being Catholic is a joyful and exciting experience. We seek true Catholic fraternity and eutrapelia with other Catholics who, like us, are doing their best to live out their vocation with the help of God’s Grace. Above all, we try to bring humor and joy to the craziness of this fallen world, for as Hillaire Belloc has famously said:
“Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s always laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!”
Avoiding Babylon
Matt Fradd Signs with the Daily Wire as Nick Fuentes Splits the Catholic Right
A Catholic podcast just got bought—and the tremor is bigger than one show. We open the hood on what happens when a platform promises reach and relief: fewer invoices, more producers, cleaner schedules. But where do the lines get drawn? We walk through how “creative control” often becomes control by omission—careful guest lists, avoided flashpoints, and a steady grooming of the audience to stop asking first-order questions about war, influence, and the faith’s public voice.
From there we zoom out. The theological backdrop matters: how Catholics understand Israel and Judaism after the council, how charity rejects collective guilt yet still permits clear speech about power, and why a Church that prioritizes spiritual works must be brave in naming realities that polite media won’t touch. We examine the reflex to label uncomfortable analysis as bigotry, the role of diaspora identity in American politics, and the way postwar narratives have shaped what Catholics think they’re allowed to say. None of this calls for cruelty. It calls for courage with charity—and the humility to let Scripture and Tradition set the boundaries, not sponsors.
We also map the media incentives that steer conversations long before a script is written: who is invited onto stages and into studios, which conferences open doors, and why some voices never get the mic. That quiet sorting process creates a curated Catholicism—safe for brands, soothing to coalitions, but thin on the truths that actually convert hearts. If evangelization online is going to mean anything, it has to look like full-contact honesty: welcoming hard guests, testing arguments in public, and letting the hierarchy of truths lead. Subscribe, share this episode with a friend who cares about Catholic media, and leave a review telling us one topic you think should never be off-limits.
Take advantage of Recusant Cellar's "Christ the King" sale by heading over to https://recusantcellars.com/ and using code "BASED" for 20% off at checkout!
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My dear friends, Anthony and Rumble, it would be my utmost honor if avoiding Babylon could be present at my upcoming Council of Trent conference. I've turned it the Conference of Trent is a funny point. So I'm excited to announce the first ever Council of Trent conference at St. Francis of Assisi Catholic Church. The theme is going to be how to evangelize online, and to help you do that, we have a lot of great speakers who will be joining me, also inviting over two dozen Catholic social media artists who will join us for special panel discussions.
SPEAKER_01:So I've said yes to this offer, just in case I wasn't clear on that. I'm joining the Daily Wire and I'm really happy about it.
SPEAKER_12:I do need those glasses. I do.
SPEAKER_02:He just put your your face on Patrick.
SPEAKER_12:That's why I was wearing such a gay never mind.
SPEAKER_03:You should pull up the um the we're gonna make a gay sweater, Joke.
SPEAKER_12:I almost asked him, like, why'd you put me in such a gay sweater?
SPEAKER_02:That's not nice. Um why don't you pull up the video? The video that I was talking about in the green room.
SPEAKER_03:Because I was watching, I was watching Frad this morning, and this is what it felt like watching Frad this morning. I see I see Matt put out a video and he said, special announcement. And um I'm like, okay, what is this, man? Matt's Matt's got uh an announcement about the future of his show.
SPEAKER_12:Do you know how much stuff is on your timeline?
SPEAKER_03:It's no, it's in the show notes. No, it's is it? Yes, it is. It's like oh, yeah, it is right. You gotta be kidding me. This is your timing, it's terrible. My timing? Yeah, comedic comedy is like based on timing. So I tuned into Matt's show this morning.
SPEAKER_12:I do agree that comedy is based on timing.
SPEAKER_02:I definitely do agree. All right, pop it up. So this is this is what I uh I tuned into. Whenever you're ready. This is what it felt like watching Matt this morning. All right, all right, all right. That's basically what it's felt like being Catholic since 2013 in general.
SPEAKER_03:Um, you like the TLM?
SPEAKER_12:Take this. Um, so they talk about Catholic guilt. I think they need to talk about Catholic masochism more.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, well, it there is something to that, right? Like you're basically just beaten down by the hierarchy, but okay, so let's get let's get into Matt.
SPEAKER_12:Um, yes, we are definitely a guy show guys. Boomer humor.
SPEAKER_03:Come on, you gotta be kidding me. Um, so um the thing is, no nobody should be surprised by the news of uh that came out from Matt this morning because well, okay, for those of you who maybe don't know, Matt Fred sold out pints of pints with Aquinas to the Daily Wire. So that's quite the wording. So Matt, right? So Matt announced this morning that he will describe it. He's sold out pints with the quinas. Sold out Pints of the Aquinas, the Daily Wire. Matt is joining the Daily Wire. They have basically bought his podcast. So um, for anybody that's like surprised by this news, it really shouldn't be a surprise. So it's um, you guys are such haters, and it's sad to see how low you guys can get. Exalt your brother and not tear him down. I honestly feel sorry for you guys. We're praying for you all for you guys all. All you do is criticize.
SPEAKER_12:All right, first off, that's not how you spell criticizing. Second off, shut up. Who's the one hate watching a YouTube show in in the live chat typing away?
SPEAKER_03:Like just shut up and listen to what we have to say before you even make that comment. Okay, so the the the thing is, I've I mean, I think everybody's kind of long suspected Matt was going to go there. Um, he's clearly been aiming for it, yes. And well, and also the thing is he said he said on his show this morning, he's like, I don't, you know, I they told me I have complete creative control, nobody should worry about a change in the show, and uh I'm not going to be interviewing uh guys in politics. But I mean, Frad, if you just watch his guest list over the past year, it's the guy from the the Babylon B was on, Eric Metaxas was on, apostate profit was on, you had uh uh Tammy Peterson on. I mean, you had uh Knowles has been on like he's literally had the guest list from um he's had the guest list from the Daily Wire just basically running through uh Andrew Claven. He's I mean he's had you know constantly a constant stream of these guys coming over. So I don't think I was surprised by it. And no, his show probably won't change much. Um they they don't need it to change much. So the the thing is a lot of people are saying, like Matt never really talked about Zionism or the Israel-Gaza conflict. No, he never did.
SPEAKER_12:So the the thing is you cannot separate this announcement from the only time I've ever heard the Israel-Gaza thing discussed on his shows when a certain priest he brought on discussed it in rather strong terms.
SPEAKER_03:Not just discussed it in strong terms, he used the phrase used the phrase woke right, you know, like he he bought right into the James Lindsay phrasing, the woke right stuff, and you know, it it was it was it was bizarre the way that went down, but yes, we heard that tonight, yes. Well, that that's the other thing, like even the intro video joking around about us not being invited to Trent's thing, like we we will never be invited to those things because we choose to talk with people like Father Maudsley, right? And the thing is, a few months back, if you go back, we started talking about this issue, and I started saying this the divide in the church is not going to be over the Latin mass and the sordo, the divide is going to be over this issue. It was when the the Phylos Project came out. The Phylos Project came out, and the announcement that came out today cannot be separated from Nick Fuentes being platformed by Dave Smith, PBD, and then finally on Tucker Carlson. Them releasing this statement the day after the Tucker Carlson interview, you cannot separate those things. And anybody who says that's a conspiracy theory is just ignorant to reality. The Catholic Inc crowd is extremely worried about grouperism, very worried about it. We saw Christian Wagner went to the Catholic Creators Conference a few months back, and he was making friends with those guys, and we thought there was going to be some kind of collaboration. He wasn't invited to Trent's conference. I don't know this for a fact, but I would say he might have been invited, maybe he said no, to be fair. Just possible. But if you ask me, it seems more like Wagner is too adjacent to the Grupers, he just had Pine Sap on, and I would think that's more likely of a reason why he isn't in that crowd. This is a very big issue. Now, we know that there is a huge propaganda push from the Zionists right now. They just bought TikTok and they are massively flooding social media right now. I mean,$7,000 per tweet. The idea that look, them getting Matt is not that Matt will now push Zionist talking points. It's that Matt will now not interview anybody that's even remotely controversial on that subject. It's more that it's more that it it's it's presenting a version of Catholicism that is Zionist friendly rather than actually discussing this issue from the perspective of the church as it always has presented it. The church has always recognized the enmity between Jews and Christians, it just has. So that's why many people that see this issue, they you know, they may just start to recognize the the worldly infiltration, and they may they may start to recognize the Jewish infiltration into our political system, where you know people are are sponsored by you know, politicians are sponsored by APAC, whether they're Republican or Democrat, uh Jews have dual citizenship with Israel and they have it in America. So they may start to see it on that level. But when you start to see the church's change in stance on this issue, it goes back to the council. I mean, it it comes from after the goes back to the war, but goes back to the post-war consensus, then they have the council, and then there's this drastic change in the way the church uh relates to uh all religions, but mainly no shortate is mainly about the Jews, like it's it's essentially about the church's position towards the people of the old covenant. Um, so the idea that I and I want to be charitable to Matt because I think Matt was feeling overwhelmed. I think that I think running a podcast like his, especially his wife having the health conditions that she had, I really do think he was getting overwhelmed, and he was just like, I don't know what I'm gonna do with this thing. It's it's a lot doing this. Like Rob and I do it twice a week, it's for two hours a night, and we kind of wing it when we come on. We don't really plan anything out, we're not booking guests and flying them in, we're not doing a tenth.
SPEAKER_12:We're not even even when we talk to someone about a book, we haven't read the book, we don't have the time.
SPEAKER_03:You yeah, so it's like so so I think he was feeling very overwhelmed, and they come to him and they present him with this offer, and in his mind, it's like, oh, that'll just take such a load off of me. I could focus on just the content aspect because the content is actually the easiest part of this, like just coming on and talking, like you enjoy it. You come on, you have a conversation, and that's a wrap. But there's so much stuff that goes on in the back end, running a business, he's got a cigar lounge, he's got this, he's got that, he's got a lot going on. So they present this offer to him, and he's like, All right, I'll do it, you know. So I don't I don't want to ascribe like ill intent to Matt. I don't know if I don't know, I can't read his heart, I have no idea where he's coming from with this. I just know this issue is very important, and the things that Nick Fuentes is talking about are very important. And the the fact that Catholics nowadays don't actually talk about the the essence of these stories from the old testament describing the enmity between the older and younger brother, and how that is actually going to play out in the story of Christianity, and how at the end of time we hear constantly about how the Jews still play a role in salvation. Yes, they do, they play a very significant role in salvation towards the end of time because they are going to be the ones who persecute the church, they are going to be the ones who persecute the church, just like they persecuted the Christ in the for in the when Christ comes the first time in the passion of the church, just as in the passion of the Christ, it will be the Sanhedrin who persecutes the messiah, which is the church.
SPEAKER_12:I mean, it's uh I just saw a tweet that I'd retweeted from Joshua Charles like four months ago, where he he he lays out how the church fathers were 100 completely unanimous, and that the Jews would accept the antichrist as their as their messiah, at least initially, and and throngs of heretics will follow as well.
SPEAKER_03:So you're talking about Christian Zionists right because they're spiritually Jews, right? Protestants for the most part are spiritually Jews. So Christian Zionists are also going to follow. So this is my concern when you have things like the Phylos Project and Catholics pushing Zionism. It's dangerous because what you're doing is it's like a spiritual blindness that you're putting over people where they it's an abuse of Christian charity. Um, uh yes, Zionism is directly related to Noshrotate and Vatican II, and Vatican II is direct directly related to permission to celebrate the TLM. It's the elephant in the room behind the intra-tri, of course, but that's that's kind of my point. Like this stuff all is going to go back to the council, and all this. It's so in interesting that this is all going on in Rome today on the anniversary of Nostro, don't they? Play the one I I put a clip of Leo speaking today in Rome about this stuff. This is this is such an important issue, and this is listen listen to this.
SPEAKER_00:Initially, Pope John XXIII commissioned Cardinal Augustin Beyat to present a treatise to the council describing a new relationship between the Catholic Church and Judaism. We can say, therefore, that the fourth chapter dedicated to Judaism is the heart and generative core of the entire declaration. For the first time in the history of the Church, we have a doctrinal text with an explicitly theological basis that illustrates the Jewish roots of Christianity in a well-founded biblical manner. At the same time, Nostreetate takes a firm stand against all forms of anti-Semitism. Thus, in its following chapter, Nostreetate teaches that we cannot truly call on God the Father of all if we refuse to treat in a brotherly or sisterly way any man or woman created in the image of God. Indeed, the church rejects all forms of discrimination or harassment because of race, color, condition of life, or religion. This historic document, therefore.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, exactly. So uh Jay Dyer posted. I'm sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_12:I was just gonna say, for um anyone who noticed who he mentioned at the beginning, uh Augustine Bayer. If you want to know uh what you should think of an Australia Tete, research who that was.
SPEAKER_03:Uh, it wasn't an AI dub. I sped it up to 1.5 when I screen recorded it, just because Leo speaks very slowly, so I just sped it up a little bit when I screen recorded it. So now John Paul II on Jews and Judaism said some interesting things. This is from Boston College. I don't know if this is literally what he said, but Jews live in covenant with God was one of the things. Yes, they do, because the covenant comes with curses, they are under the curses of the covenant, like the covenant cut the covenant with God, they broke the covenant, so they are under the curses, so they're dispersed throughout the nations, the temple is destroyed, right? That's that's always been the Catholic position. Uh, there exists uh a divinely willed ongoing bond between Judaism and Christianity, yes, in respect to well, the the elder younger brother, the elder and younger brother, and that plays out throughout the ages. There's always this enmity between the two of them.
SPEAKER_12:Yeah, I mean, even when Joseph was separated from his brothers in another country, they still had a bond that had to be settled later on.
SPEAKER_03:There exists, I'm sorry, wait, Judaism has its own distinctive vocation in the divine plan. Yes, it does, because there will be a conversion of the Jews at the end of time. Like they're they're going to there's going to be a unification of the brothers. There's going to be a healing of the bond between the brothers, just like Joseph is reunited with his brothers, right? Um now there is some some weird stuff in here too that I don't know if I could uh I could definitely go along with, but just just like that's just kind of some of the stuff that that I'll I'll you know I'll say you could write up to um what John Paul was getting at. It's like there's a way to to say these things are true while also you know recognizing that they're true in that there's there's still a role for them to play in the story of salvation history. It's just yeah, it's not that they're saved in the covenant that they're in, it's that there's just still a role for them to play in salvation history. So um the okay, so now uh uh cat uh classical theist wrote this. He wrote, in past ages, the church granted protections for the Jews so long as let me bring that up so people can yeah, bring that up. So Matt Matt gives his announcement, and classical theist writes this, and this is very important. This is stuff we've spoken about when we've had Father Maudsley on, and it's that in a proper, properly Catholic society, the church would grant protections for the Jews so long as they harmonize within Catholic society. They couldn't they couldn't um loan money at interest, there was no usury around, they weren't allowed to take positions of high government, things like that, because they couldn't influence Catholic society. Now it seems like Catholics can give be given influence, but only in in their gift so long as Catholics harmonize with Jews Zionist interests, is that a preferable arrangement? So now think about this. If you speak out against any of this stuff, you get canceled. Now it's loosened up a little bit in the past couple of years, but even this conversation would not have been able to be had a few years back.
SPEAKER_12:And you have to recognize it's it's the same no matter who is in power politically. When the left's in power politically, Catholics um, you know, Catholics can have influence as long as you don't talk about homosexuality, gay marriage, transgenderism, thing like that. When the right's so-called right isn't influence and power, you can be Catholic and have influence as long as you don't talk about uh Judaism and you know uh crazy prodights and disciplines dispensationalism and all you know. So yeah, we live in uh occupied society, you know, and the the remnants of Christendom where everything's turned upside down.
SPEAKER_03:It's a Zog government, right? It's like yeah, there's you're you're just this it's a complete inversion of the way it's supposed to be, okay? So now them getting Matt to join the Daily Wire. It's like we we've all talked for years about when is somebody going to start the Catholic Daily Wire? Because we wanted a wealthy Catholic to put his money behind some some Catholic podcasters and put them together to present something like the Daily Wire, but very Catholic, explicitly Catholic, right? What is happening now is the Daily Wire caught so much grief after getting rid of Candace and Brett. So much grief after getting rid of Candace and Brett, right?
SPEAKER_12:And I mean, there were there were rumors that they were asking people to pay take pay cuts and you know letting people go.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, they were almost gonna go out of business, but the the whole the whole thing starts as cr as the as the the the uh drama around Christ the king. Candace starts tweeting Christ the king. Yeah, Nick Fuentes is tweeting Christ is king. Like, this is how this whole thing starts. So now Ben Shapiro is catching so much crap, and the Daily Wire is just known as a Zionist platform. And if you speak out against the Jews, you're gonna get begged. Now, Walsh, everybody's been like getting on Walsh for how long now? Like, Matt, you have to leave there. Like you are flat out saying the US government should not be supporting any foreign government, but you just draw this line at Israel and you kind of just don't want to talk about Israel. It's the elephant in the room over there. So to get rid of this reputation of just being a Zionist platform, they start picking up Catholics. So they go and get that girl Isabel Brown. She's a Catholic, and now they're grabbing Matt Walsh. The whole thing is to make, and now all the Catholics who like Matt Walsh are going, This is Catholic infiltration, this is Catholic infiltration of the Daily Wire. No, it is not, it is Zionist silencing of very important Catholic voices.
SPEAKER_12:One of the the more annoying um phrases I saw today on Twitter was someone saying the the typical line, like, um, why are people getting so you know so mad when you know when when we agree with 80% of you know say Ben Shapiro? And I think that's such a screwed up way of looking at it when so much of our faith is all or nothing propositions, right? Sure, maybe I like the same pizza as Ben Shapiro. Maybe uh, you know, we both dislike Kamala Harris, but the fact that he doesn't believe in a triune god means I don't agree with him at all. Yeah, you know, like like it's 80, maybe in terms of number, but it's literally zero percent when it comes to things that actually matter, you know, for your eternal soul.
SPEAKER_03:So, no, I don't agree with Ben Shapiro in any way, shape, or form, and nor would I ever have anything to do with an organization he's a part of it's just uh it's just about them being able like you talk about like oh has have have Jews infiltrated the church? It's like well, they yes, they've infiltrated our liturgy, yes, and now they are literally getting the most influential Catholics, the most influential Catholics, and putting them under a a company who will not let them discuss this issue at all in any kind of a significant way. Yeah, they'll just pretend they just won't discuss it. It's not like Matt's gonna become a Zionist, he's not gonna start spouting Zionist propaganda, he's just not gonna talk about it at all. At all, nor will he know and he definitely won't have guests on now. Right, he's not, and it's and it's who he's going to have conversations with, they are going to influence who he speaks to. They already have, like they they already have. I mean, they have it. Look, the one of my one of the most disappointing things I saw happen with Jonathan Peugeot was when Peugeot was talking with with Ben Shapiro, and they were talking about the story of Cain and Abel, and Ben Shapiro was given his own Jewish interpretation of that story, and Peugeot just kept his mouth shut. And I was like, Jonathan knows what that story's really about. He knows what that story is really about, he understands that story is actually about the Jews and the Gentiles. Like that is a that is a uh a foreshadowing of what's going to happen when when the old covenant, when the people of the old covenant reject the new covenant, like these things are all foreshadowed. And Jonathan just didn't say anything because he didn't want to have an awkward conversation with with Ben Shapiro. Frad was already not going to say anything, but now he has more reach to talk about the I've seen this too, and I disagree.
SPEAKER_12:The the individual chat the channels of the individual creators at Daily Wire, besides Knowles and Walsh, aren't any bigger than Frad's channel is? They they have what 1 million subscribe paid subscribers, so yeah, that's more than Frad's what six seven hundred thousand. Do you think the seven hundred thousand of those million that are evangelicals are suddenly going to suddenly watch Matt Frad? No, his reach hasn't grown at all.
SPEAKER_03:And if anything, I think it's like he'll get more publicity and they'll and they'll put more advertising behind his stuff and he'll have more sponsors now. It's more money, it's more, yeah, it's more money, but money and it's a lot easier of a job for him. I'm I know I'm look, I'm not like I said, I'm not putting I'm not trying to put bad motives on that. I'm not, I'm not, I'm just telling you what the reality is. The reality is there is there is a real fear of grouperism right now, like a real fear of it. That you see it when people are flipping out the Tucker platform Nick Fuentes. And Nick has managed to get this conversation out into the public, and he's speaking about it in a way where he's he's saying, look, there's there's this influence in our society by people who also have this this dual loyalty, you know, the whole conversation he's having, and he's talking about having how it does uh tie into identity and all this stuff, and they and over the last six months to a year, he's actually doing it in an approachable way for non-grupers, right?
SPEAKER_12:That that I think is what is really scaring them is that he's actually starting to reach outside of his base.
SPEAKER_03:Well, okay, so um he does have editorial control. Look, I'm not I'm not saying Matt has lost editorial control of his show. What I'm telling you is there's just going to be guests he won't have on because he works at the Daily Wise, it's just just the way it is. He's already done that, like he's already done that. Well, we we have text proving it right with Daniel O'Connor O'Connor, like Daniel O'Connor. He was going to bring him on, and then people told him not to. But if you like if that was before those that was before those people wrote his paychecks. You go back, listen to me. This all started, and you guys are saying Matt's not gonna start saying Zionist stuff. What do you think his little post, what the heck is anti-Semitism anyway? A Socratic dialogue on Matt Frad's Substack was. That was back in March of uh March 18, 2025. This is when the talk started. He was he was already starting, and and Michael Knowles retweets it. Like, this is when this stuff starts. Don't tell me Matt's show isn't going to be affected by this. Of course it is. Of course, this stuff is going, of course, his show is going to be affected by it. Now, he may not be like a flat out Zionist, he may not be just pushing for that because I think Matt Frad knows how to stay in his lane. But there's a reason that you look, there's a reason we'll never be invited into those conferences. There's a it's because we talk about things that that they that they're they're not willing to talk about. I mean, it and to the point where the there's two dangers here. One is the the conversation about the Jews goes so far that violence occurs, right? That is a danger, and it absolutely is. People are crazy, and we see and the thing is you get into things like like what you we were talking about, like the uh narco trans groups and stuff, and people getting handled in those groups, like those Reddit forums, and we were talking about just uh someone from 764 was just a Arrested today or yesterday, I think. Like those people in those in those forums, right? They get handled by like by CIA and and Massad and things like that, right?
SPEAKER_12:Order of nine angles was created by M MI6 agent, so yes.
SPEAKER_03:So those guys will be in those forums and they don't know they're being handled, right? You could have the same thing in Gruper forums where they're being handled by assets.
unknown:Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_03:In their discords, in their in their in their grouper discord. And you could have a guy being they'll they'll see a guy who's off a little bit hearing this stuff, and they can manipulate him to go do something crazy and then blame it all on the group. Like the the danger is there for something bad to happen. It just is.
SPEAKER_12:I think it's more likely we'll see leftist violence violence against Jews, and they'll just rope all anti-Semitism in together, probably. Possible too.
SPEAKER_03:Either way, there's there is a possibility for violence here. The other danger is convincing people there's nothing to worry about whatsoever. Like, no, no, no, no, don't worry about it. The Jews are our are our elder brothers in the faith, and we have a totally different relationship with them, and there's nothing to worry about, as they literally infiltrate every facet of society, the church, everywhere. And and we just sit back and they take advantage of Christian charity and our our our empathy, right? That that that Christian impulse towards empathy and to treat everyone as a beloved child of God, and not everybody's a child of God, everybody is created in God's image and likeness, but not everybody is a child of God. You you become a child of God at divine adoption when you are baptized. People that are not baptized are not children of God, and you should you should understand that. Like you, you, you should love them and treat them that way, but you can't think they have the same interest as you. And the problem is in America, because we live in this multicultural democracy, we all tend to think everybody is just like us because so many Catholics are not actually paying attention to their faith to begin with. Yeah, so you just you just think everybody's the same as you, and they're not. There are people with diabolical motives, and that's not to say every single Jew is like that. No, not at all. But it's also not incorrect to say the Jews are doing this, like it's it's not incorrect to say that. It doesn't mean every single one, but it also is not wrong to say this is them doing it, and this is an important conversation to have, and and you're just not going to have it from some very important influential Catholics, and that is scary to me. Nobody makes more money than Lila, dude.
SPEAKER_12:Yeah, because you gotta understand the money that is her salary, just what it lists as her salary. Her travel's covered under a different category, her podcast production is covered under a different category. You think you think you think I'm going too far?
SPEAKER_03:I might be, I might be, and I'm sure if somebody complains, it'll it'll happen, right? So, look, also he we spoke with Father Maudsley, and um we would love to put that conversation on YouTube, but he said some things that just can't I can't put on YouTube.
SPEAKER_12:Not um, I mean I'm not saying we do agree with it necessarily or disagree, but but because YouTube will lit like their auto sensor will catch it immediately.
SPEAKER_03:The the channel will just the it'll nuke the channel from some of the things he said. So we're going to release it for free on Friday on our locals and on Rumble. So if you guys haven't seen that conversation, we will release it on Friday for free. It right now it's it's still behind the paywall. We're just trying to figure out how we're going to release that. We can't put it on YouTube. I might be able to edit a few things out and then get it on YouTube. Um, so I I might be able to get like a significant portion of it on here, but I have to I have to figure out how I'm gonna do that, but we will make that uh available for free very soon. Should we do the Recusin ad real quick, Rob? Molly's reminding us.
SPEAKER_12:We probably better at this than we are, and it's yeah. Um, yeah, give me a second. Uh, do we want to re-inter or should I just play the video? Just play the video, I'm gonna turn my air on. Okay, it sounds good.
unknown:To me.
SPEAKER_05:There is nothing better than watching Avoiding Babylon while enjoying a glass of wine from Recusant Cellars. After this, I'll be praying on my black monk Rosary's Rosary.
SPEAKER_03:I know you guys love the uh 102 take three.
SPEAKER_07:Action, please. A bottle of recusant cellars petit verdeaux is one of the few things that can make me stand watching avoiding Babylon. Use code base, that is B-A-S-E-D at checkout.
SPEAKER_03:Um go to recusentcellars.com. Use code base at checkout for 20% off. You guys have three days left to get your 20% off uh for the uh feast of Christ the King. We love Recusen Cellars, they're an awesome Catholic family. They never tell us what we can and can't talk about, they kind of just let us do our thing. They have a lot more than wine, they also sell fruit. If you guys can, if you like the show, please go and support uh Regis and sellers, it would mean a lot to us. And the wine's actually really good, very good, very good. So um, yeah. Um, yeah, so look, this is this is uh this is a this is a uh it's one of those shows where it's like I know people are gonna say we're just hating on Matt. We're just hating on Matt. No, I'm not I'm not even concerned with Matt. It's more what is happening in the public conversation, like these con the this issue is being spoken about finally, like we're finally at a point where we're discussing this issue in the public sphere now, where you couldn't even have this conversation 10 years ago or five years ago, even right. So once you are at the point where this conversation is able to be had, and there are solid Catholics discussing it, and they're discussing it from a spiritual standpoint, they're not getting into crazy conspiracy stuff and just saying, oh, they run the banks, they run, you know, they control point like all that stuff. We're talking about this from a theological standpoint, and we're talking about it from an apocalyptic standpoint. Like this is a very important issue, especially when you see the crazy things that are happening in the church and world right now. We're talking about the the opening of the floodgates of our country to foreigners, to where there's going to be complete mayhem at some point because we don't have any culture left to stick together. There's going to be some kind of chaos in our country, in the west, all over. Possibly starting Saturday.
SPEAKER_12:It could very possibly starting Saturday when a hundred thousand Somalians in Minneapolis can't get their food stamps.
SPEAKER_03:That's yeah, like we're talking about you're talking about that, even could be look, and part of me worries that even us being allowed to talk about this is part of their part of the fifth gen warfare, yeah. Part of the fifth generational warfare where they're like, all right, let them talk about this stuff, let the let the let them all get riled up about it, and then something happens and they can pin some event on us, and like all of this could be manipulation. We don't know, but it's still important to talk about because we've lost as Catholics the actual proper perspective on salvation history and how this stuff is supposed to play out, and and the church no longer talks about some of the most important issues uh facing Christians.
SPEAKER_12:Yeah, they'd rather they'd rather talk about climate change.
SPEAKER_03:Bless a big block of ice, which is another form of infiltration, getting us to focus solely on the carnal issues, right? Just getting us to focus solely on the temporal stuff, not discussing the mass apostasy that's happened in the church, the fact that people have lost their faith, the fact that there's heresy ramping everywhere, the fact that our liturgy is completely falling apart. It's just none of the real issues. The church doesn't want to talk about any of the real issues, they would rather discuss interreligious dialogue, and they would rather discuss how we need to love migrants, and they'd rather discuss loving the poor, which is like I'm I'm not saying corporal works of mercy are not important, they are but what's more important, the spiritual works of mercy should come first. Every time Christ heals somebody in the gospel, right? Which is easier to say your sins are forgiven, or get up and walk. He forgives someone's sins because the spiritual sin, the spiritual healing is more important. Oh, okay, the spiritual healing wasn't enough for you. Get up and walk. Now the physical healing comes. So the spiritual works come before the corporal works, and we're in a time where the church doesn't want to talk about the spiritual works anymore, and our relation to this issue is so freaking important, and nobody's talking about it. And and the chaos that's going to happen throughout the world and throughout throughout our country, there's going to arise a strong figure who's going to come and put everything back together and fix everything. People are going to be desperate to have order out of that chaos.
SPEAKER_12:No, to be fair, yes, it could be the Antichrist. Or it could just be the great monarch, you never know. I know we're blackpilling, but let's moderate it'll be the Great Catholic monarch, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I I mean I don't I'm I the the thing the look to me things look so freaking bad that I keep missing it. Things are so bad that this doesn't seem out of out of this doesn't seem that crazy to me. I don't know. I mean I know everybody hates when I go down that road, but it just doesn't seem that crazy to me.
SPEAKER_12:It could also be just a type of antichrist, too.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, too, but uh I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:I I mean this is something we had to talk about tonight, and then look, and then you also have um I try and just get the chat is going fast, yeah. It's going very fast.
SPEAKER_12:A lot of 706 viewers uh right now.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, please hit like and subscribe, guys. Share the show. Um you you also have while this is going on, you have 169 likes. Come on, guys. You have that's in 400. In Rome, you have Cardinal Burke with the Summorum Pontificum uh pilgrimage going on, and everybody's making such a big deal that the Latin mass is in St. Peter's, and literally across the street, you have this insane Sonatal, whatever the hell is happening over there, the Sonatal program. And the Italian bishops released their Sonatal document, which has been adjusted because the first time they wouldn't even vote on it because it didn't include inclusive language for the LGBT and for all this nonsense. So they had to adjust their document, and the Italian Bishops Conference put together the Sonatal document that wants us to have a more gentle approach to people and acceptance for people who are transgender, and this stuff is legit insane. So it's like the tale of two churches. You have Cardinal Birkin there with this beautiful liturgy in one side, and then you have this insane Sonatal stuff on the other. You have Matt Frad joining the Daily Wire on one side, and you have Nick Fuentes claiming Catholicism on Tucker Carlson on the other. There is a split happening, guys. Sadly, a lot of the Trads who are who understand that there is a lot of problems with the liturgy, and they have understand there's a lot of problems with doctrine, don't want to touch this issue, they don't want to go near this issue with a 10-foot pole.
SPEAKER_12:One reason why we stayed independent.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that there are trads who don't want to go near this issue, it is an important issue. You're talking about look, I even saw I don't want to say voice, but somebody what yeah, this is uh the Catholic Church and the anti-church currently coexist in the same sacramental liturgical and juridical space. Yeah, hard to disagree with that. I can't disagree with that. I mean, that that goes into I mean, that really does go into what Benedict was saying about Ticonius, how like the body, the body of Christ, the body of the ant uh of the devil grow into the same body.
SPEAKER_12:I was gonna say it's it always has, but I don't think at any previous point of the history, maybe outside of the Aryan crisis, but but I don't know, um has the anti-church had greater power inside the church than it does now.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's uh look, I mean you can't separate this from Bishop Sheen's prophecy of the ape of the church.
SPEAKER_12:Um just for anyone watching, after we're done, on locals, not on YouTube, on locals, go to locals and then go over to New A New Crusade.
SPEAKER_03:Um so I mean, do we want to do we want to play the Nick clip? Which one? Play play the Nick clip that I put in there. Nick, uh Nick asked Tucker, what about my views do you find unreasonable? Okay, and discusses his position on this issue. I don't know how much of it we'll play, but we'll play some of it.
SPEAKER_09:Am I being paranoid? I feel like going on about the Jews like helps the neocons.
SPEAKER_06:Well, what what uh about my views do you think are unreasonable if yours are reasonable?
SPEAKER_09:Um I think again, I just I don't think it's cucky. I think it's reality to say that guilt is not inherited, blood guilt is bad. One of the reasons that I'm mad about Gaza is because the Israeli position is everyone who lives in Gaza is a terrorist because of how they were born, including the women and the children. That's not a Western view. That's an Eastern view. That's a non-Christian, that's totally incompatible with Christianity and Western civilization. They say, or the defenders of Western civilization. Not with that attitude, you're not. Collective punishment is the enemy of Western civilization. Yeah. And so I hate that attitude. It's genocidal. The current claims that I'm a cancer, you know, from Ben Shapiro or whatever, we need to be excised from the body of conservatism is a genocidal position that it basically encourages violence, as they well know. The whole thing I hate. So, like anytime you say a whole group of people is responsible for the sins of some of its members, like I'm out. Yeah, but that's not my view. It's not okay. So what are so tell me your views? Like, rather than you're one of those people, one of the reasons I wanted to meet you is you're one of those people who is defined by clips. Yes. And I'm one of those people also. Yes, yes, so I get it. So I'm gonna just shut up. And you tell me what you actually believe. Yeah, well, and and listen, I mean, and I appreciate your.
SPEAKER_03:We don't believe in like like it's not it's not that because of your genetic, like any, any, any Jew can become Catholic. The dividing wall of uh of hostility between Jew and Gentile has been has been knocked down by Christ. The original apostles were Jewish, our lady was Jewish. This is not something you receive genetically or anything like that. And I don't think Nick has ever espoused that either. That's not what we're saying here. It's not like it's and and that's why it's not correct to say all Jews, like you cannot say that. It's just but it's still not wrong to say the Jews are doing this, like it's just like they are a group. Saint Paul calls them that, uh Saint Saint John the Apostle calls them that.
SPEAKER_06:It's it all of the church fathers do, so and then let's uh let's actually hear from Nick what he's saying because it's that's just the reality of the media environment we're in. So if you I don't expect you to know all my views, but I mean, as far as the Jews are concerned, I think that, like I said, you cannot actually divorce Israel and the neocons and all those things that you talk about from Jewishness, ethnicity, religion, identity, and let me give you like a perfect example. So you say on your show that we need to treat Israel like any other country. And I sort of understand that in principle, because Israel is another foreign country. Yeah. But Israel is unlike every other country in the sense that because the Jewish people are in a diaspora all over the world, there are significant numbers of Jews in Europe, but also in the United States. And because of their unique heritage and story, which is that they're a stateless people, they're unassimilable, they're resist assimilation for thousands of years. And I think that's a good thing. Um, and now they have this territory in Israel. There's a deep religious affection for the state. It's bound up in their identity, the story of the exodus from Egypt, the promise of the land, all these things. So let's say in the United States, for example, somebody like Isheldon Adelson, he's not Israeli. Is he an ideological neocon? Does he believe in the promise of democratic globalism? I don't think necessarily. His heart is in Israel. And it's because he is a proud Jewish person. And I guess what I'm saying is that if you are a Jewish person in America, you're sort of, and again, it's not because they're born, but it's sort of a rational self-interest politically to say I'm a minority, I'm a religious, ethnic minority. This is not really my home. My ancestral home is in Israel.
SPEAKER_03:Because you you can't you also can't separate it from the atrocities of World War II that are put in their heads and every every previous told to them that anytime somebody starts to talk the way Nick is talking right now, it's going to lead to another one of those events. Like this is this is very important. This is why getting into E. Michael Jones's book, the Holocaust narrative, and listening to things Father Mawsley is saying, it's like this event is like it is there, it's it's religious for them. It's they're they're just they're they're told that it's going to happen again if people start to say anything. That's why there's this insane reaction anytime people start why everybody we're all told and taught that from the moment we're born now. Right. And and it's the the reaction of anti-Semitism, like the reactor we're calling somebody anti-Semitic for just discussing this issue is just reflexive to them because they're told this is going to happen again. So it's yeah, I mean, we can finish him out. Okay.
SPEAKER_06:Israel, there's like a natural affinity that Jews have for Israel. And I would say, on top of that, for the international Jewish community, they're extremely organized. And many of them are critical of Israel or Israel's current government or the project of Israel. But I guess what they have in common, unlike, let's say, like Singapore, for example, is that they have this international community across borders, extremely organized, uh, that is putting the interests of themselves before the interests of their home country. And there's like, there's no other country that has a similar arrangement like that. No other country has a strong identity like that, this religious blood and soil conviction, this history of being in the diaspora, stateless, wandering, persecuted. Um, and in particular, the historic animosity between the Jewish people and the Europeans. They hate the Romans.
SPEAKER_03:Well, actually, finish that one little part.
SPEAKER_06:Because the Romans destroyed the temple. That's why Eric Weinstein goes to the Arch of Titus and gives it the finger and takes a picture. We don't think like that as Americans and white people. We don't think about the Roman Empire in 2,000 years ago.
SPEAKER_12:I will challenge him on that.
SPEAKER_03:As a white person, men think about the Roman Empire all the time. You can take it off. No, but he's not wrong in that they are part of their identity is that they are they are everywhere they go, eventually they get thrown out of. There's eventually some kind of a pogrom against them. This is part of their identity, right? So after the after the war, we all come out, and we as Christians and Catholics specifically, our approach to all people is oh, love your neighbor, like love your enemy, treat others the way you want. The golden rule, they're taught, no matter how kind they seem to be to you now, they're going to turn on you eventually. So, like, there's this there is this psychological dynamic to their identity that is unlike anything, anybody being Christian. I'm not, I'm not no, but it's not just that, Rob. It's that we are we we are told.
SPEAKER_12:You don't know what I was gonna say because you didn't let me finish. Well, I was afraid you were gonna say something.
SPEAKER_03:No, I was afraid you were I was trying to cut you off on purpose there. We are told to like to to love them because they are a child of God or whatever, but they are not, they still recognize we are told there's no enmity between Jews and Christians, they are not told that they are taught there is an inherent enmity between Jews and Christians, they are taught to be suspicious of Christians at all times, but you are told not to be suspicious of them, and you are anti-Semitic if you are suspicious of them, but it's it's not the same way for them. They are told to always be suspicious of Christians, so this is like a very important part of the of the dynamic between the two because they're still suspicious of us, but we've been disarmed and told by the church to stop being suspicious. Yep, that would actually be correct, though. It would, yeah. You should love them because they are your enemy. We are not told that we are told to love them because they are children of God. That is the problem. They're not children of God, they're not baptized. It would be correct to say you should because you should love your enemies to the point of martyrdom, should be willing to lay down your life for your enemies, but that's not actually what we're taught. That's that's the problem. Like it just it's it's it's you should absolutely love everyone, you need to treat everyone the way you want to be treated. The golden rule still applies, you just can't be ignorant and naive about this. That's all. Like, you need to understand what is happening here, you need to be fully aware of the dynamic between the the the historic conflict between Jews and Christians that has been going on since the destruction of the temple.
SPEAKER_12:Um, little flowers. Uh so little for those who can't see because you're listening, little flowers says uh the Jews they're questioning our statement that the Jews were the overwhelmed who took the liturgy and uh the free Freemasons. Well, if you actually listen or read uh Saint Maximilian Colby, he will tell you, you know, Maximilian Colby, the the martyr of the Holocaust, um, who we're told lots of things about, but we're not told that he says that the Freemasons are led by the um, how do you put it? The um rat like rabid Jewish clique. So when we say that the the liturgy is overtaking by the Jews and some other people here, Freemasons, it's the same thing, it's the different things.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's the same thing. So look, I I don't know how much you can talk about this issue here. We're testing the waters tonight, though. We're certainly testing the waters tonight.
SPEAKER_12:I would love it if we found other subjects for the next couple of weeks because it does get old.
SPEAKER_03:It does, but this is I mean, how do you not talk about this? No, I mean we had to for sure. You have you have to. I mean, the Daily Wire bought the most influential Catholic podcast.
SPEAKER_12:An organization owned and run by a Jew and a Judeo-Protestant, yeah, a Zionist. Bought the number one Catholic podcast.
SPEAKER_03:So you have to talk about this, and it's like I don't know where this goes, but I love Matt. This is not I'm not that's the thing.
SPEAKER_12:I don't want people to we flew to Ohio for his cigar shop opening.
SPEAKER_03:We don't dislike Matt guys, yeah. No, and I don't and I don't and I don't necessarily know if he even know understands what this is, you know. And the reason he might not understand what this is is because it's not spoken about, but it's a hell of a freaking good offer. It's like, yeah, you know what? All that work you're putting in, come with us, we'll throw you a couple million bucks instead, and now you get to sit back and just have conversations. We'll take care of everything. It's like, I don't know how the hell you turn that down. Uh, I got it. I got it. I mean, if somebody offered me what I make in construction, it'd be hard for me to turn down. I'm not gonna lie. That was where the last group went wrong. I don't think I would uh I look, this issue is too important for me to no. I no, there's not there's nothing the Daily Wire could throw at me to get me to go there and change change change my my my beliefs on this. Like this is this, I think, is apocalyptic. I think it is the most one of the most important things that needs to be discussed right now. I think it is the preeminent issue, and it's tied in with the liturgy, it's tied in with traditional Catholicism, it's tied in with the new mass, it's tied in with all this stuff. It's tied in with it's tied in with the passion of the church, like it's just too important, it's too important, and I and you know, it's that's what I wanted. I'm not even gonna make that connection. Like, I'm just it's it's just it's just a big deal, and I you know, I don't know. It was too hard for me to knock it on and at least talk about this tonight, especially after boring last week. Last week was a bit boring, but um tonight had to be talked about, and then all right, so when we go over to locals tonight, we have a couple of ideas. Uh, one is we could talk about the Somalian takeover of Minneapolis, which is pretty wild.
SPEAKER_12:We have video of it. Um so glad I get to be down there next or this weekend.
SPEAKER_03:Or I had an idea of do bro, like I had the idea, I wanted to call it ex algorithm roulette, where we just where we just pop on a video feed, and we you know, when you flip up, new videos come up, and I just want to see what comes up on my algorithm, and so you guys can see why I'm getting so radicalized versus Rob's feed to see what Rob's getting radicalized by. And I want to compare the two feeds to see if it is it just me, am I just being fed race riot stuff where they're trying to you know cause a race war and like we'll find out like anti-feminist misogynist content? Is that everybody, or is it just me? That's what I'm kind of curious to see. So I think we should Rob wanted to call it uh, yeah, we're gonna do roulette. What we're gonna do, we're gonna do X algorithm roulette because I kind of want to see, am I just being goaded into hating everybody right now, or is it just because of the things I follow, or is it like does Rob have all like hunting content and gun content?
SPEAKER_12:And it's like not so much hunting, but you'll probably all see eggnog for some reason, and you'll have no idea why.
SPEAKER_03:Man, if you guys see my algorithm, you come on this show ranting every other night, also. Man, I'm telling you, I'm ready to all I see is like ridiculous, insane novus ordo stuff. Then I'll see just I'll see black people just like beating up innocent white people for no reason, and I'll see like the craziest stuff on my algorithm. Let's check it out. I love how you said it through. An innocent there. Let's play. Well, that's what it is. They're purposely showing me like this poor innocent white person just gets beat up by 30 ridiculous out of control black people. And it's like, I don't know if that's happening everywhere, or if it's just happening in my algorithm to make me think it's happening everywhere.
SPEAKER_12:It's the algorithm is a mirror. The question is, is Anthony the poor person or CD Africans?
SPEAKER_03:You'll probably see a lot of Fuentes clips popping up in my feed, I'll tell you that.
SPEAKER_02:That kid's grown on me, I'll say that much. Um all right.
SPEAKER_03:So we're going to locals.
SPEAKER_12:Is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we're gonna head over to locals. Um, pray for Matt, pray for uh Matt Walsh, pray for Michael Knowles. Um pray for all those guys. I mean, look, they're Catholics and a and uh uh a Zionist outfit. Let's pray they still bring people to Catholicism. I don't I'm sure look, they're it they're still serving good. I'm sure plenty of people are converting to Catholicism because of their content. I just you know any any kind of censored content when you're talking about the faith is dangerous, especially when you're downplaying very serious issues because that's kind of how they've passed all the things on to us since the council is people, it's not necessarily people pushing bad things, it's people keeping their mouth shut when these bad things were happening. It's you know, the the new springtime, and it's the new Pentecost, and it's the hermeneutic of continuity, and it's downplaying the problems in the council, and making it like the the the documents that were a little bit tricky, were perfectly fine. It's all that stuff is what's led us to where we are. So I think it's time that we just start talking about the things that are actually important.
SPEAKER_12:You get requisite with avoiding Babylon or Manashevitz with Fred? Manashevitz with Fred? I would have never pronounced that right. Manashevitz with Fred. You've never seen Manashevitz wine?
SPEAKER_03:No. All right, guys, we're going over to locals. Join us over there. We'll we'll figure out the uh the X algorithm roulette.
SPEAKER_12:What video do I want to play to take us out?
SPEAKER_03:Requisite sellers. I don't know. Truth telling what avoiding Babylon.
SPEAKER_12:You know what? We're gonna we're gonna everyone get to watch this again. So I'm sorry, guys.
SPEAKER_11:Come to the peace of heaven and earth, come to the table of an tea. God will provide for all the green here at the table of pen tea come and sit at my table where says and sinners are friends.
SPEAKER_10:I wait to welcome the share of my to the beast of heaven and earth, come to the table of plenty.
SPEAKER_11:God will provide for all that we need here at the table of plenty.
