The American Bishops’ Betrayal of the Catholic Faithful

A microphone squeal, a sarcastic wine ad, and then the floor drops out. We go from laughs to the fault lines running through Catholic life right now: a made-for-camera stunt at an ICE facility framed as “Eucharist denied,” diocesan letters pushing Latin Mass communities to fold into “reverent” alternatives, and families who built their lives around stable liturgy wondering where to go this Sunday. We don’t dress it up—trust breaks when sacraments and headlines get blended for optics.

We walk through Knoxville’s announcement, the signals from Rome’s DDW, and what the first week’s numbers look like when a thriving TLM map gets redrawn. Behind every statistic is a home sale, a homeschool co-op, and a seven-year-old who just lost the friends he prays with. We press the claim that liturgy forms people: habits at the altar shape what your conscience tolerates on Monday. That doesn’t deny validity; it insists that culture matters and that “reverent Novus Ordo” promises feel thin when the same authorities hint they’ll remove kneelers if challenged.

Cardinal Robert Sarah’s voice serves as a compass: encourage those who actually practice the faith. We contrast that fatherly posture with an impulse to homogenize—whether in worship or in how leaders talk about identity and assimilation. The throughline is consistent: distinct forms, memories, and practices keep people rooted. Erase them and you get a bland surface where convictions evaporate. We wrestle with obedience, courage, and prudence without pretending there’s a single neat answer. Endure what purifies; resist where your duty to your family demands it. And stop popesplaining people’s pain—compassion is not disloyalty.

Along the way we share bright threads: a young seeker finding the Latin Mass, a Protestant pastor-turned-Catholic who brought seventeen souls with him, and a reminder that different voices in the Church play different roles. If worship shapes belief, then the task is simple and hard: guard the forms that train hearts to love God, name the costs honestly, and build communities that don’t fold when the memo arrives. If this resonates, subscribe, share the episode with a friend who needs it, and leave a review so more displaced Catholics can find a lifeline.

Chapters

• 0:00 Cold Open: Jokes, Chaos, Banter
• 2:00 Ad Read: Wine And Irony
• 3:15 ICE Facility Stunt And Media Optics
• 6:50 “Denied Eucharist” Narrative Challenged
• 10:05 Politics Wearing A Collar
• 12:40 Knoxville Letter And TLM Suppressions
• 16:45 Signals From Rome And Implementation Fears
• 20:40 Attendance Fallout And Obedience Pressure
• 24:10 Confusion, Suffering, And How To Respond
• 28:20 Stop Popesplaining: Compassion Over Spin
• 31:50 Reverent Novus Ordo? Limits And Threats
• 35:00 Cardinal Sarah: Encourage Those Who Believe
• 38:30 Loving Enemies Without Stockholm
• 41:30 Money, NGOs, And Incentives
• 44:00 Identity, Assimilation, And Immigration Alarm
• 48:30 Liturgy Shapes Belief: Sensibilities Dull Or Sharpen
• 53:00 Culture, CCD, And Losing The Kids
• 57:40 Catholic Identity Versus Institutional Unity

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:11

My entire Latin mass parish is made up of brown kids. Like they really are. They're part of the community. We don't cast them out because they're not white. Like half of our show, when we meet our when we meet the people who watch our show, they're not white. They barely speak English. I'm friends with them. I care about these men.

SPEAKER_05: 0:44

Out of the building. Let's go. Stay right there.

SPEAKER_02: 0:49

I did not see this one beforehand.

SPEAKER_01: 0:55

When I watched it the first time, I was just kind of half paying attention to it. And I hear my name and I look, I'm like, did Taffy make the Asians love me?

SPEAKER_02: 1:04

Oh my gosh, that is too freaking funny. AI slop. It's not AI. Why are you guys saying that? It was totally legit.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12

It might be AI. It is not slop. That was.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18

Oh my goodness. Man, you forget that Taffy's gonna use your own words against you in future episodes. It's a dangerous thing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27

So the way he cut into your part about your coworkers to make it. It's just that our fans don't speak English.

SPEAKER_02: 1:36

Oh, welcome to welcome to the comedy show. Everything's funny these days, isn't it? Everything in the church is funny. Everything's just funny. Hold is my wife kidding me with that stupid hang. Oh, I'm not gonna be able to do it. Never mind. What she left something on that's making a lot of noise right now. It's very I hear it. You hear it? A little squeaking in the background. All right, why don't you do the wine ad while I go fix that?

SPEAKER_01: 2:03

Okay, you know what?

SPEAKER_02: 2:04

I'm just gonna do Reggie S and Cellars. I'll be like three seconds. I just all right, jump into Regus and Cellars.

SPEAKER_00: 2:20

One of two take three. Action, please. A bottle of recusancellars petit verdeaux is one of the few things that can make me stand watching avoiding Babylon. Use code base, that is B-A-S-E-D at checkout.

SPEAKER_02: 2:40

Okay. Do I have to do any follow-up? Because I just jumped back.

SPEAKER_01: 2:44

No, it's seriously though, guys. Go to requisite sellers.com. They have a uh um Christ the King sale going on through uh the October 31st. Uh, you get 20 20% off. Use code based at checkout, and it helps us uh pay the bills, and at the very least, helps me get some cheaper wine.

SPEAKER_02: 3:02

So so goes until the feast of Christ the king, where you could get yourself and drown yourself in your sorrows in your wine when your Latin mass ends on the Feast of Christ the King. Go to Reggie Sun Cellars and drown out your sorrows for losing your liturgy, guys. Yo, it was a rough, it was a rough couple of days, man. Like just it was it was the um the the the clown show in Chicago with the uh the clown show in Chicago with the uh the the was it a bishop or was it a priest?

SPEAKER_01: 3:40

It was a priest, some priest, some Jesuit priest.

SPEAKER_02: 3:44

Um okay, so Ice denies a group of Christians request for entry to Broadview Ice facility uh to bring communion to the teinees. If nobody saw this video, play the video real quick. What uh not the whole thing, but just show it.

SPEAKER_01: 3:57

What video?

SPEAKER_02: 3:58

I sent it's in the group chat, not the group chat.

SPEAKER_01: 4:01

Once again, lots in the chat, but uh uh if you scroll up, okay. I think I got it. Scroll up. This is like one of the only the one that's seven minutes long.

SPEAKER_02: 4:09

Yeah, just play a clip of it so people get a because a lot of people aren't on Twitter like we are, and they didn't see this. So this is a priest goes to an iced detention facility, a Jesuit priest, and puts on a show.

SPEAKER_01: 4:24

No prior notification to the facility. But somehow all the reporters knew about it.

SPEAKER_02: 4:45

Yeah, that's about it. I mean, whatever. It's a so the news story is that IC is denying Christians' request for the Eucharist. Like there are there are proper channels to go through for a priest if he wants to visit prisoners. And and there are there are just proper proper channels you could go through. Um these men, it's these are the same men who disappeared for months during a cold.

SPEAKER_05: 5:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 5:18

None of none of them cared about the people dying in hospitals who were on their deathbed. None of them were lining up, marching the Eucharist around during COVID, none of that. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01: 5:29

Same type of man that you know denied my father the apostolic pardon, same type of man that will uh you know excortiate you for kneeling to receive the Eucharist, same type of man that won't baptize your child, won't won't tell you you should convert, same type of man who will tell your wife in the confessional that uh that um using uh birth control isn't a sin. Yeah, same type of same type of message.

SPEAKER_02: 5:53

We're just at a point where they they wear Catholicism like a skin suit. Um it's all for a political charade. Um and we're getting the message from everywhere now that it's basically you you can't be conservative and Catholic. That's essentially the message you're getting. You can't be Catholic and Catholic, basically. We'll get there. We'll get there. Um, but just the political angle of all this, um, because this all plays into the conversation about Supic and Dick Durbin and the comments Leo made about being pro-life last week. All of this kind of goes together, and it just it gives these men cover to use the faith as this political tool for leftist uh infiltration, and it's also uh freaking aggravating. Um it's like I don't I don't the the the thing is where we are now is that the message is coming from the highest points that this is this is this is the way to go with it. Like you had that that clip of Leo speaking with Bishop Seats and a couple of other bishops saying the church needs to be more united and combat this stuff because he watched some emotional video of um migrants being raided and stuff. But I mean we talked about this on the last episode, but it's just this is this is the farce that they're trying to put forth as the Catholic faith. They're they're trying to be we used to group around and say, like, um what was the what was the saying we used? It was like uh the US C C B is the Democratic Party at prayer or something. I think that's that's what we used to say, right? Uh who I think it was like the like a common saying, like the US C C B basically the the Democratic Party at prayer, but this is becoming like the whole church, like not and I don't mean the church, but like the the the institution, the institution is becoming just the democratic party at prayer, and it's just this stuff is just so demoralizing. So it started with that. Um, ain't nobody watching the kids. Oh no, but we do have to say please hit like and subscribe. And there's something weird going on with the notification bell, where like if you guys don't press the notification bell, it messes with the algorithm.

SPEAKER_01: 8:19

So I so YouTube has told some creators that the notification bell, which no one likes and doesn't really work, anyways, that even if you're subscribed to a channel, your subscription means more to the algorithm if you click the notification bell. Which I don't think we've ever promoted the notification. No, because I don't ever press it for anyone I follow.

SPEAKER_02: 8:43

No, and the thing is, it's not like you just get notified for that show, you get notified for everyone you subscribe to, so it's obnoxious email after obnoxious email. So maybe just hit it once and then unsubscribe for notifications later or something. I don't know if that'll help, but whatever.

SPEAKER_01: 8:56

Well, give it a month or two, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 8:58

Um it yeah, so Sunday started off with that charade, and then yesterday was uh Knoxville comes down with their announcement. And what's bizarre about this announcement, um, it can't it came out in like a in an announcement first, and then the the homily the priest read was just such gaslighting insanity. It was I I mean, I don't know if we should go through that whole homily, but it was just total insanity of them. Uh the all right, so look, what don't we do this? Why don't we highlight this guy, Andrew Lakudis' um tweet? Because I actually I saw conservatives snapping back at this, and even I think Dr. Kważnevsky challenged this.

SPEAKER_01: 9:50

Yeah, I don't see anything I actually dislike.

SPEAKER_02: 9:53

Oh, okay. I thought you said you couldn't find the tweet. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01: 9:56

No, I I didn't disagree with his uh assessment, assessment of it. Me neither.

SPEAKER_02: 10:04

Oh, he's not on our side, he's definitely not on our side. But that's the thing, we have to start listening to that side because that side seems to know better than we do at this point. So, according to the diocese of Knoxville, the Dicastery for the divine worship. So this was I pointed this out to everybody because everybody saw that you know Knoxville was doing that, and they're like, No, Leo doesn't. I'm like, No, no, no. It says in the letter in the homily from the priest, he says that the DDW wrote to them and requested that the diocese of Knoxville finally implement traditional custodas, which which leads us to believe this is not just going to be in Knoxville, this is going to be every diocese is going to get that letter from the DDW, and they're going to be asking them, How are you implementing Traditionus Custodas? So, according to the Diocese of Knoxville, the Dicassery for Divine Worship has just requested the complete transition of all the remaining diocesan TLM churches to the Novus Ordo before the feast of Christ the King this year. I think this is the clearest signal to date that Pope Leo intends to continue the path chartered by Francis regarding the Roman rite, solidifying around uh the third typical edition of the Roman Missal, the Novus Ordo. This will be difficult for many to accept, but Pope Leo has made clear that he believes for those who cherish the TLM, they will find in the Novus Ordo with elements such as Latin Gregorian chant, incense, and reverence celebration what they need to satisfy their legitimate their legitimate aspirations. And this, without the ideological divisions and rejection of the post-conciliar magisterium that for decades has accompanied the continued celebration of the 62 missile. It's just according to the Novusordo Missal, the mass of Paul VI, he called it. Um, and it seems like this is going to be.

SPEAKER_01: 13:08

I mean, not not the hardcore trad, but uh but if the numbers in Charlotte are to be believed from what they saw the first weekend, so apparently they had 1200 people through the four parishes or whatever that offered it weekly prior, they had approximately 1200 weekly TLM goers. The new chapel the first week had about 500 people, and the SSPX saw an increase of 50 people, so that's 550 out of 1200. That means the very first week, the first the week that everyone should have been at a TLM to show support for the TLM, half the people gave up immediately. Yeah. And I think we're seeing that throughout other dioceses when they actually closed the the TLM, the whole Marxist uh you must obey sort of thing that we got from the uh the priest in Knoxville and his homily, uh, it does work on on most so-called traditional Catholics.

SPEAKER_02: 14:09

Yeah, this is this is a this is especially a problem with those Catholics who just kind of like the the aesthetic, right? Like if you just like the aesthetic and you still get some Latin and Gregorian chin and it's a reverent liturgy, those people will be satiated, you know. Um, people are sheep, it's not necessarily a bad thing unless the shepherds are replaced by wolves, which in my opinion has been happening, it's been happening since the council, but uh there's something drastically different. Like, like Francis moved the overton window so much that even Leo backing off like slightly in just his delivery has kind of like quelled everybody. It's it's it's I I cannot believe how much the Overton window has shifted because of how hard Francis pushed forward, and then just the slightest easing off the pedal has made people go, oh, everything's fine, everything's fine. I mean, you know, we we we did it to a degree because you just you just you don't like I don't even I don't know. I don't know. Look, I'll say right off the bat, like I don't know what the answer to this stuff is. Like I don't I don't know. I I don't know. So if you guys are like looking to to to my insights on what I thought, like I don't know. I I'm uh it's a very confusing time in the church. Um part of me thinks like this whole thing needs to like this this charade you saw out in Chicago, like whole thing needs to come down, and that can't come down, like there can't be a resurrection without a death. So part of me is just like accelerate this thing, yeah, kill kill it all, kill the diastone TLM. Let's let's just let's go. Like, let's just go, let's see what happens, you know. And it's gonna be really difficult for those of us trying to raise our children in the faith, but I mean it's not it's it's so much of it has just been a facade, and and I think I don't know, man. I don't know the answer to this stuff. I don't know. I I I you know I I'm I'm glad to see Wagner today came out and said he's gonna stop Pope splaining. I think that's a good thing. Um, and part of that is probably because of conversations I've had with him, um, partially at least. I'm sure he's come to his own his own uh conclusions on his own. But the the the whole idea of Pope spleening and just defending everything the Pope does because you think any kind of any kind of comment against something the Pope does is is schismatic or something like that, like that stuff needs to end and people need to have a little bit like we're talking about families being ripped apart right now. You're talking about people who like we've we've talked about um my my cousin's parish in Kentucky. Now that's an FSSP parish, so they're safe, but for now, right? But do you know how many people might have moved to Tennessee and said, Okay, we have a stable mass community here.

SPEAKER_01: 17:09

I'm gonna move one of my mutuals on Twitter, move from Maine to Knoxville because of the TLM, and now it's gone.

SPEAKER_02: 17:18

And people people were were doing that, like making, especially during COVID when everybody was like, I gotta get out of the big cities, I gotta go somewhere more rural. And you would base your move on, okay, is there somewhere I'll be able to raise my children and family in the faith and have a stable liturgical life because I don't want to go through this insanity. Like we've talked about it where you and I were raised in the Novos Ordo, we lost our faith from it. We come back and we find tradition. We're like, okay, I'm not gonna make the same mistakes my parents made and just assume that my kids are picking something up in CCD. I'm gonna actively teach my children the faith, I'm gonna try to bring some of these customs and devotions into my home life, and I'm gonna instill the faith in my children. I'm not gonna leave this to my wife, I'm gonna do it myself. All these different things we've picked up, we're trying to do, and all we got was scorn. Yeah, all we got was scorn, and if you know, for all the talk of religious liberty that came out of the council, it's like you can have all the religious God wills the diversity of religions unless you're Catholic, unless you're unless you're Catholic, because if you're Catholic, we have to put an end to that because God forbid people actually believe what the church has always taught. That is a scary thought, right? That people people look at the council of Trent and see the catechism of Trent and think that's Catholicism. Oh no, we can't have that, like it's insane. Uh, hey guys, Lucas here, the guy you had on the local show a while ago. I'm in the diocese of Knoxville, and I've been pretty devastated from this, don't know what I'm gonna do. Um, so that was the conversation I had with Wagner even today. Him and I spoke on the phone, and he was like, you know, I'm I'm definitely not going to take the approach I took under Francis because he's like, I think it's having the opposite effect of what we thought it was. Like we thought we were defending the Pope, but really like the gaslighting was too much for people. And and I I just said to him, I said, Listen, you have to have compassion for people that are going through what Lucas just described, right? He's down there, and now he doesn't know where he's going to go. So I mean, is he gonna be stuck going to a reverent novus ordo? I mean, how long will that be allowed or not? And that's the and that's the thing because the the priest in his homily specifically said, if you guys give us a hard time about this, we'll even take your reverent novus or it's it's it's very disheartening. And I mean, I I don't know how I know you guys hate when I blackfill. I just don't know it's not how it's not apocalyptic. Please tell me, Rob. Please tell me how this is not apocalyptic.

SPEAKER_01: 20:06

You know how you know what I said, I think it was yesterday. Right?

SPEAKER_02: 20:15

I uh what's funny is I thought I was gonna have to talk you off the ledge tonight with some of the things you were sending me, especially even this morning. Like, like the original title, Rob is gonna go. I was like, let's back off that title a little bit. Like, um because we do have to be careful right now. Like, it's not I I know I felt everybody's uh like demoralization of frustration. I I felt it, I feel it, and my and my and I haven't lost my mask yet, but I I assume it's coming. Um and it's I I was worried I was gonna have to talk you up the ledge because you were so angry. Oh, I still am. Yeah, but I think like I'm kind of glad we didn't have a show yesterday because I think if we would have jumped on in that kind of heat, like I don't know, I might have said it. Like, I I I tweeted out the the Pope asked for money for missions, and I was like, You won't get a dime from me. I can't believe how much pushback I got from that.

SPEAKER_01: 21:09

But it's like it's like really, you are you people serious? What you haven't been able to donate to the your parish or the diocese or Vatican for 20 years, and now you're like, give me a break.

SPEAKER_02: 21:20

You people never seen a Lepanto Institute video. Like, have you guys never listened to what Michael Hitchbook is? It's like it's like, oh, support our evangelistic efforts in an in mission territory. It's like, what do you think they're teaching those people? What do you honestly, what do you think they're doing over there? They're they're they're giving them like like um secular sex ed programs, yeah. They're they're tied to UN governmental programs and things like that. It's not it's not like they're out evangelizing and preaching like like the Jesuits did back when they were fighting against the Protestant Reformation, like it's just that's not what they're doing anymore. It's it's it's very difficult to not see this as just a further like deepening into the passion of the church. And I know a lot of people get upset with us and they you know they they think we're we're we're being divisive and stuff, but I don't I don't I don't I don't know. I'm not gonna ever I'm not gonna ever not say how how how this stuff like what it is like we we see what it is. The church has been there's been a hostile takeover of the Catholic Church. We're not talking the the crazy thing is these are all new bishops, these are not like bishops who've been settled in a diocese and know they're flawed, these are guys who came in.

SPEAKER_01: 22:40

Sitka isn't the one who canceled Lynn Knoxville, no, the new guy, it's the new guy who was appointed by Leo.

SPEAKER_02: 22:49

And and Martin's over in Charlotte, he was appointed by Francis, but but Leo was on the congregation for bishops and and suggested him. So this is uh this is a personnelist policy thing, and I know everybody everybody likes to say, like, yeah, but the young priests are so trad, the young priests are so trad. But that doesn't matter because if you have the guys at the top choosing who becomes bishops, listen, under under John Paul II and Benedict, and it's it's those it's those so trad young priests that are telling us to shut up and obey.

SPEAKER_01: 23:19

So excuse me if I don't trust them exactly.

SPEAKER_02: 23:22

Well, look, the thing is, man, I because I'm very conflicted about this because I've been really thinking about the the passage in First Peter that we read the other night. Slaves be subject to your masters, not just the good ones, but the the wicked ones too. Like the ones who are froward, you have to also be obedient to. So it's like there's there's a there is an opportunity for sanctity in this. There really is. There's an opportunity for sanctity in this. There always is, and and how how we handle unjust suffering. It's like like our Lord was before the Sanhedrin, they spit in his face, they smacked him, they pulled his beard out, and he sat silently and took it, and that was unjust, and he shouldn't have obeyed them. He was but he but there's something there's something about like holiness in in how you react to this stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 24:16

But you don't I don't say you're not attaining any grace by rolling over and letting your kids be harmed by this BS.

SPEAKER_02: 24:26

No, and also like there's no room in heaven for cowards, is what uh vegan uh yeah, vegano said. There's no room in heaven for cowards, right? So it's like you you there look, this is a difficult thing. It's like, okay, do I submit and take my beating and just nothing, or do I speak up because that's actually the brave thing to do? But like it's a it's a difficult thing, man. It's not this isn't this isn't just so easy, and I and I anybody who's like convinced they have the right perspective, you have to be cautious of those people because I don't think any of us know what the hell's going on. I think this is a really confusing thing, but under under John Paul II and Benedict, you had them raising liberals to to bishops, like they they just did, but you also every once in a while you get that Cardinal Burke thrown in, you get that Cardinal Surrath thrown in, you would get that you're not gonna get that now, and you haven't gotten it for 10 years under Francis. All you got were guys that thought like Francis for 10 years. Now you're looking at another 20 under Leo, right? So I don't care if the next generation of priests are trad because it doesn't matter if they're bishops telling them shut up and obey and do what I tell you. Like, where is there room for them to even be trad? They're the the the new crop of bishops that they're putting in are ripping out altar rails and ripping out kneelers, and they're it's just insane what these guys are doing. It's not just it's not look, yeah. The the the in Knoxville, they're going about it a little with a little bit more taste than they did in Charlotte, like it's a little bit more tasteful than they did in Charlotte and Charlotte.

SPEAKER_01: 25:59

And they learned their lesson a little.

SPEAKER_02: 26:01

Possibly, right? So it's a little more tasteful, but man, where where where do you go if you're in Tennessee and you want to go? And like I I don't even know. Like, what do you do?

SPEAKER_01: 26:14

Well, it it um it should be noted that eastern Tennessee and Western North Carolina, they're those two dioceses border each other. You now have a whole section of that area of the country with L TLMs now. Nothing.

SPEAKER_02: 26:30

Bring up bring up Carnel Sarah's interview. I I want to talk about Carnel Sarrat's interview. Because he actually did I put it in there?

SPEAKER_01: 26:40

I think so. Let me look for it. I think I did.

SPEAKER_02: 26:44

Um, on locals tonight, we got we got a little bit of gossip tonight, too. So we have uh I had a I talked with Milo. Cameron O'Hearn reached out to us. We gotta talk about Cameron O'Hearn. The nerve, the nerve on the we gotta talk about Cameron.

SPEAKER_01: 27:01

Um I saw that email.

SPEAKER_02: 27:03

I was like, Rob texts me, you're gonna die when you see this. I'm like, what? And he's like, You're gonna and he just texts me, you're gonna die. And I'm like, what do you mean I'm gonna die? Like, what do you and then he waits like three minutes before he sends the thing? I wanted to kill him. Um, so uh we yeah, we have that. We gotta talk about the the the leaked messages of the the young Republicans, uh, and we gotta talk about Mel Gibson replacing.

SPEAKER_01: 27:27

I was really disappointed in that group chat. Me too. It was so tame. Really, guys? That's all you've got. Come on.

SPEAKER_02: 27:35

We'll talk about that on the other side because I've I've got to say some stuff. But also, Mel Gibson has replaced Jim Cavizel. Jim Cavizel. He replaced Jesus. He replaced he got a new Jesus. Jim Cavizel will not be in the sequel to The Passion. So we're gonna we're gonna talk about that too over there. So all right, so bring up um bring up Siraz. Um I don't think we have to read the whole thing. Um bring up the yeah, I have it. Okay, so you can go down to so I think that if the Pope tries to see that it's not easy because the question is a matter of faith. How we believe is how we pray.

SPEAKER_01: 28:13

If we don't have faith where the heck are you here?

SPEAKER_02: 28:16

Oh, scroll down, scroll down, scroll down. Right there. Yeah. Um, so they're they're just asking him about um uh about the traditional liturgy and stuff. And he says, So I think the Pope, if the Pope tries to see that it's not not not easy because the question is a matter of faith, how we believe is how we pray. If we don't have faith, we can't take action. If people don't believe, nothing will change. We continue to fight over the liturgy, we continue to bully certain people. Whereas, in fact, when we really look at the Christians who practice today, they are the ones who go to the traditional mass. So why forbid them? On the contrary, we should encourage them. I don't know what the Pope will do, but he is aware of this battle, he is aware of this difficulty. Um, and then they ask him, You had the opportunity to speak with him, and he also talked about Cardinal Burke saying the traditional mass. He said, Um, wait, where did where's that last line he said? The Pope is the father of us all.

SPEAKER_01: 29:09

Uh right here, it's right there.

SPEAKER_02: 29:13

Oh, okay. Wait, oh yeah, which will take place, but everyone's been everyone must be given a space. The Pope is the father of everyone, uh, of each one of us. He is the father of the traditionalists, he's the father of the progressives, the father of everyone. He cannot ignore his children. Everyone has their own character, their own sensibilities, everyone must be taken into account. I think he will try to act in this way. He's basically asking, why are they doing this to the like that? When you look at the situation, you see the people who actually take the faith seriously, the people who are actually who do believe and who actually care about the faith, they're the ones going to the traditional liturgy. Why are they doing this? Like, I asked that question two weeks ago or a week ago. On to I was like, what is the real motivation behind the men doing this? And It's it's interesting that like Cardinal Sarrat today posted a picture of just a picture of Pope Leo. And I I think his approach is to to to love to love love the Holy Father into submission or something. I don't know because I'm I'm trying to figure out like how do you how do you love the men who are doing this to you without becoming um without having uh what is that syndrome? Uh Stockholm. Stockholm syndrome, right? Like there's a difference in choosing honestly be more worried about catching AIDS from these guys, but choosing to choosing to love your enemy is not the same as Stockholm syndrome. Like Stockholm syndrome is like you're tricked into thinking the person has your best interest and you love that person. Like, that's not what we're talking about here. It's like I don't know, man. There's got to be something like like a I don't know. It's it's it's difficult to love your enemies in this situation. I don't have to like them to love them, but I don't I don't know how to not see these men as our enemies, like they are enemies of the faith.

SPEAKER_01: 31:14

When that doesn't mean like this, you can't still love them. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02: 31:19

Like um let me let me just see the comments what uh um yeah, I I don't know. It's it look, these are these are these are just it's a very challenging time. It's a very uh I just I don't know what the answer is. I just know these men hate us. They hate that they hate the faith. They hate they hate seeing people actually believe the faith. It's a bizarre thing. They they just want political activists, they want a church full of political activists that believe the same things they do, is what it seems like.

SPEAKER_01: 32:04

And it's getting it gets them the most money, the most handouts. I mean the most handouts the reason why you see a a priest going to to an iced detention facility but not going to a hospital during covet, it's because uh they get money for all the that immigration activity. That is true.

SPEAKER_02: 32:22

Um then you have um Pope Leo's words today in in reference to immigration, which just is such a head trip. Like if you apply his words about because it sounds like the the this statement is bizarre to me, what Leo says here. Words of Pope Leo XIV today said in the context of migration, there is a certain tendency these days to undervalue at various levels the models and values that have developed over the centuries and that shape our cultural identity, sometimes even attempting to erase their historical and human relevance. Let us not disdain what our ancestors experienced and what they passed on to us, even at the cost of great sacrifices. So he's he's where he's going with this is so bizarre. Let us not be seduced by the homogenization of the homogenizing and fluid models which offer only appearance of only an appearance of freedom, but in fact make people dependent on forms of control such as passing fashions, commercial strategies, or other influences. Now, now he's quoting Cardinal Ratzinger, but but Ratzinger, I feel like, is talking about tradition in the faith, and it seems like what Leo is talking about is not asking the people who come into your country to actually like become like right, is that what you say?

SPEAKER_01: 33:55

It's just funny because apparently we're not supposed to disdain our ancestors and what they pass on to us unless it's the traditional liturgy, we're not supposed to homogenize and become all one unless that's the novus ordo. Um let's see what else here. We're supposed to cherish the memory who came, those of us who came before us, unless they were Catholics who actually believed their faith. We're supposed to treasure traditions and let except for the Catholic ones.

SPEAKER_02: 34:24

But what it what I'm looking what he's saying here, if he's talking about immigration, what he's saying is don't make these people assimilate.

SPEAKER_01: 34:32

Yeah, he is saying that. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_02: 34:34

He's saying don't make these people assimilate, let them keep their cultural traditions and have this multicultural democracy. This is I don't look, the liturgy stuff is one thing, but the immigration stuff is civilizational ending. Like we are talking about civilizational ending policy here. This is not oh, I like the TLM. This is not even about doctrine. This is you are going to have people come in and take over your cult. Like, this is terrifying to me. This stuff, I I I I see I see um like immigration of letting people come into your culture on the same level as letting heresy into the church, like it's the same thing, like like not allowing your culture to to develop a culture, a Christian culture where your children have Catholic friends or even Christian friends for that matter, and you have a society that that recognizes Christ as king and is subject to his rule. Now you're letting foreigners come in. It's the same thing as allowing heresy into the church. It's like letting the LGBT stuff into the church and it spreads around, and it and it it totally destroys the faith once you start allowing that heresy to spread within the walls. Like to uh what what was the other um the other post I I had uh that somebody said about the novus orto. Um man, did I not put it in here? Uh shoot, I didn't put it in here. Um, somebody's somebody was talking about how I have to find this because this is important with this person.

SPEAKER_05: 36:36

Which one?

SPEAKER_02: 36:38

Um, somebody, somebody, when I was talking about the novus or I said the whole point of the novus orto is to get you to dull your Catholic sensibilities.

SPEAKER_01: 36:46

Yeah, it was uh your quote tweet of John Monaco.

SPEAKER_02: 36:50

I'm pretty sure. Um, yeah, I want to actually I'm sorry, guys. I know there's a few.

SPEAKER_01: 36:58

I yeah, I have it right here. Let me pull it up.

SPEAKER_02: 37:01

So I want to read his first and then my response to it. So okay, let's read his first. Hit John Monaco's first. Um okay, so this points out what I believe is the and he's talking about wait, I guess we gotta scroll down to oh my gosh, we're I know this is tedious. Okay, so when do we start shutting down novus order masses because some vocal attendees have called for gay marriage or female ordination? He said, this points out what I believe is the weakest flaw in the anti-TLM crowd. They justify the suppression of the Latin mass by pointing out how some TLM attendees have schismatic or anti-Vatican II attitudes. But based on that logic, we should take away the Novusordo because a vast majority of its attendees use contraception, support gay marriage, and is the mass that promotes uh is the propo proponents of female ordination attend. If we're suppressing liturgical forms based on the views of attendees, we might as well abandon the concept of liturgy altogether because it will always be celebrated by imperfect, sinful people. But that argument falls apart because the whole point of the novus order was to get you to accept those things that he's talking about. So it falls apart when you realize the whole purpose of the Novus Ordo Mass was to weaken Catholic sensibility so they could get us to accept those issues. They're not banning the TLM because it causes disunity, they're banning it because it makes people care about the doctrines and moral teachings of the faithless. Like it that's actually what happens when you when you go to an irreverent liturgy and you see altar girls up there, and you see people receiving in the hand and they're dropping the host, all those things they weaken your Catholic sensibilities. And then you you think you have like I've had arguments with people that think they have a reverent novus orto because they don't have altar girls, and it's like you're missing all the other things going on.

SPEAKER_01: 38:47

What's funny is most of the people who think they have a reverent novus ordo do have alter girl altar girl altar boys, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 38:54

That's it, it's because your your Catholic sensibilities have been so deteriorated, and a lot of that is because people, a lot of people are converts coming from Protestantism where they had no liturgy, and then all of a sudden they come into the novus ordo and they're like, Oh, this is structured, and this is you know, this is the mass, and they're and they're being taught this is where heaven meets earth, and this is and and they're they think that's what's going on, but it really it really does it, it gives you a Protestant sense of the faith if you attend that liturgy, because how you how you pray is like how what you do affects how you believe. So if that if that's the if that's the liturgy you're going to, it's going to it's gonna make you be like a relativist on things. It just is it's just look, it happened to to to us.

SPEAKER_01: 39:46

We grew up in this stuff. I I honestly don't know a single Catholic who it you know has only ever attended the Novus Ordo that isn't a relativist.

SPEAKER_02: 39:59

Or like, do you know a single cradle Catholic who only went to the Novus Ordo that didn't leave the faith for a period? Like, I don't know if I know one. There might be some, I guess, but I don't I don't think any I don't I don't think I know any families who like lived through the papacy of John Paul II, raised their kids in the faith that their kid didn't leave the faith.

SPEAKER_01: 40:23

I don't I don't I don't think I know a single cradle Catholic that that's I know one one of my good friends. Uh it is the rarity though, it is not the norm by any means. And he was he was homeschooled.

SPEAKER_02: 40:37

Yeah, it's just not the norm by any means. Like I and so we we saw that happen in our lives. We went to we went to school, and you saw every single one of your Catholic friends or the other ones partying the most. They're the one this is what Protestants say about Catholics. They're like, Oh, my Catholic friends, they were the ones who were going and getting high, and they were doing drugs, and they were doing that. It's because there was no actual Catholicism being instilled in people when they grew up in that novice or atmosphere. I mean, I don't know why this is such a controversial thing to say. We all lived through it. Oh, because it's a bunch of new commercials. This is this is that don't understand what they had a new converts coming in, they're like, You're causing divisions. Like, dude, I lived through it, I watched it, I watched every single kid.

SPEAKER_01: 41:21

I know what your kids will go through. You do not want that for them. If you love them, you will get the hell out of there.

SPEAKER_02: 41:30

I know. Look, there are people who grew up in the Novus Ordo, left for a while, and then had a reversion, but that's all you ever hear is I'm a Catholic revert, right? You never you don't you don't hear stories of people, oh, I grew up in the Novus Ordo and I was with a faithful Catholic, and then it is it is a faith-destroying culture. I'm not gonna say the mass, the culture, the novice order culture destroys the faith of your children. Like it's well, the culture is formed by the liturgy, so of course, but it uh the but just the whole like the whole idea of so many so many parents sticking their kids in the C C D program just to just to get them through the sacraments, but like the faith was never it was just oh no no, no, no, we just do this, you know. You have to make your communion and then you have to make your confirmation. Then you go for your confirmation, you never go back to mass again. No, I grew up in a freaking really Catholic household. Like my parents made me go to mass until I drove a car and and moved out of the house. When I was under my parents' roof, I had to go to mass. As soon as I was out of their roof, there was nothing instilled in me that made me want to keep going. I believed in God, but it just wasn't just wasn't, I don't know, and I don't want that for my kids at all. So I'm trying to do something different with my kids, and I'm trying to bring them into a culture of way more Catholic culture. Like the the priest in that homily was like, um, some people prefer Catholic identity to Catholic essence, and Catholic essence is unity with the Pope and Bishops. It's like Catholic identity is extremely important.

SPEAKER_01: 43:06

Extremely important. What's funny is it it is the novus ordo that only gives you a Catholic identity and doesn't actually provide you the essence of the Catholic faith. So for someone to to use that as a reason to go to the novus ordo is really like the height of idiocy.

SPEAKER_02: 43:24

It's it's just like what like we're we're trying to do something different than our parents did, and we're trying to give our children a Catholic identity. Like, I really think Michael Matt was really smart for naming that conference that the Catholic Identity Conference, because it felt like Catholic identity was under attack under Francis. So it was like you were being shamed for the uniqueness of being Catholic, like all those unique things we do as Catholics, like the weird stuff. Like, I want to be weird, I don't want to be like any other Christian denomination. I want to be very unique in what we do, and that starts with the way we worship. That way we worship has to be really unique compared to what everybody else does. And when you take that away, you take you take you you make Catholics think they're just they're just you know, you're just you just happen to be you're you're an American, you just happen to be Catholic instead of you're Catholic who happens to be American. Like your Catholic identity should be first and foremost, and then you're American. We have it totally backwards, Taffy. Don't worry, Anthony. You're very easy. All right, guys, I get it. I'm I'm unique, I'm weird. No, I like I don't I don't so I because I I keep getting everybody telling me how divisive I am, and I don't I don't think I'm divisive, I think I'm like saying what a ton of people think what do they want?

SPEAKER_01: 44:50

Do they want us to be in unity with all the bullshit going on?

SPEAKER_02: 44:53

That's that's what I wonder. It's well, the thing is the people defending this stuff, it's like you I especially because the a lot of them are defending pre-conciliar Catholicism. Like they come in, they come into the church and they convert because they see the historical case for Catholicism, and they're like, Oh, the church is this, and they and they have a pre-conciliar understanding of what Catholicism is, and then they come in and they're like and and they're seeing all this stuff happen and they're seeing it coming from the top of them basically pushing liberal ideology, and especially with this insane open border stuff, which is I'm just I think this is the I cannot emphasize enough how bad this is for civilization. Like, this is they are they are setting us up. I'm just telling you guys, they are setting us up to divide and conquer. That is what is happening. They are making it, they are purposely doing this. This is not about love for the immigrant, none of it. And I'm not going to pretend that's what it is. This is not about loving the poor and the immigrants, this is about dividing your nation so you do not know who you can stand together with, and then them gutting us from the inside out, and they are going to divide and conquer our nations. The entire West is going through this right now. We are not going to be able to defend ourselves. And man, I was listening to Daryl Cooper's introduction to his series on World War II, right? And just listening to what happened to Germany after they lost, and what the Allied forces and what the Soviet Union did to German women after Germany lost the world war. The horrors of what a conquered nation goes through by the by the nations that conquer them. Like, if we ever got into a war and were conquered by Russia or China, do you have any idea what life would be like as a conquered nation in a world war? You guys do not have you do not understand the meaning of the living will envy the dead. You will watch your wife and children get you will you will literally envy the dead.

SPEAKER_01: 47:11

It would be interesting to do a genetic um comparison of German Germans born post 1946 compared to Germans born pre-1946, and just to see the um the additional percentage of Slavic genetics that entered Germany due to the rape of German women by Russians. I bet it's significant.

SPEAKER_02: 47:37

Yeah, oh yeah, dude, like they almost wiped the German gene out of existence through this. And Father James Martin's in the chat and doom pilling, right? No, listen, um, because this is something where I think we have a duty to stand against immigration. Like, I think you have a Christian duty to stand against immigration, and I am in direct conflict with the Pope on this one. Like, this isn't about internal church disputes about the liturgy and stuff. This is, I really think this is this is scary stuff we're talking about. We're talking about them dividing our nate dividing and conquering our nation. I mean, this is this is this is the Illuminati plan from from for hundreds of years. Like, that's what this was. It's like order out of chaos, divide and conquer. They'll they'll cause chaos in our nation, and then somebody will come up and bring order out of the chaos, and we'll go and follow that leader. That is how things are gonna end up happening. I'm not even saying the Pope is anti-white, I think the Pope is naive, Fred, James Martin. Please unblock me. We uh we always have celebrities in our chat, guys. I don't know if you guys know this. A lot of celebrities watch our show. Um it is interesting, you never do know who's watching our show. Because the the funny thing is, um like we're we're we're kind of like the show talking about this stuff now, right? Like you you still have standing, like some of the last ones standing. It's just just kind of how things worked out. So, like, even when I don't want to talk about this stuff, sometimes I kind of feel like we have a duty to talk about it because I I like I I don't I don't know. Um Metatomas says uh TLMers are being chastised because God loves them more. I mean that that you may you might be right. I mean, that's that's honestly the logic of the saints, right? Like God has the logic of the Jews, anyways. No, but like honestly, like the like the the saints God loved the most typically suffered the most, right? And and how how we endure this, man, I have to I have to think on it. Like, I don't know, like just getting off and like spouting off about this stuff might not be the right approach. I don't I'm honestly just trying to voice what I think a lot of other people are feeling because in I don't think I don't think I'm that like that far out field.

SPEAKER_01: 50:08

It's not your job nor my job to think about what is the best approach for the church for our show. No, our our show has always just been you and I coming on here and just talking about stuff happening in the world, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 50:24

But like there is a degree to which like the bigger your show gets, the more of a responsibility you have, right?

SPEAKER_01: 50:31

I'm not I'm not I'm not saying we should ever come and do something inherently you know immoral.

SPEAKER_02: 50:37

I'm just saying, like, we should we should be careful about some of the things we say, I guess, but it's I I don't think it's that far outfield what we're saying. Like, I I think anybody with common sense thinks what we think, and I think the people who would say we're crazy or we're being schismatic, I feel like you guys aren't actually looking at reality. And I'm not going to say a man in address is a woman, and I'm not gonna say up is down, and I'm not gonna say immigration is a good thing.

SPEAKER_01: 51:05

I'm just not going to do it, and I'm not gonna say the novice order is Catholic.

SPEAKER_02: 51:09

I'm not I'm not gonna say I'm not going to say the Latin mass is is or or the Novus Ordo is just as good as the Latin, it's just not. No. Like I I I am not somebody who thinks that they're like there's no salvation outside the Latin mass. I'm not. I think that I think the Novus Ordo is a valid mass. I think I'm not, it's none of that. It's I know what happened to me in that culture, and I don't want that culture for my children. So if they do take it away, it's gonna be about honestly though, like so Metatomas is more on the Pope Splaner side of things, right? But he has compassion for people going through this, and that's that's what I'm hoping Wagner's video brings to people. It's like, don't like rejoice in people losing their their home, their families, because this is what you're dealing with here is people in communities who have formed bonds, their children have friends that they know the parents are raising their kids the same way because you go to a Nova Soto parish, like a typical Nova Soto parish, half the people going are just going for because you know their parents were Catholic and they just you know they have to go through it to go through the sacraments. Then you have half of them are freaking support abortion, and there's so much disunity in a Nova Soto parish that it's hard to find other families who believe like you do. It's not the norm. Where when you go to a traditional parish, nearly every other parent thinks the way you do, and you're trying your best to raise your children in the same culture, so you can let your kids be friends with the other kids at the parish and you form these bonds and give your children an opportunity to grow up around other Catholic families. There's homeschooling communities around them, there's all these different things that build culture. And when you break up a thing like that, you're ripping families apart, you're ripping apart some families' only chance to instill the faith to the next generation. It is freaking evil and insidious. I do not care. Not going to sit here and tell people to just take it. Like, no, this is vile what they are doing. Evil, like evil, what they are doing. Yep. So uh, all right, we're gonna leave that here. I we've gotta go over to locals. We have um we have some some inside baseball for locals, as Molly would say. We're gonna spill the tea over on locals.

SPEAKER_01: 53:42

But what?

SPEAKER_02: 53:42

Uh oh Cameron. Cameron Cameron Cameron and I talk to Milo. So I gotta I gotta I gotta find out what the Groper is gonna disown us if we talk to Milo. Because I want to interview Milo. I think I will get a phenomenal Milo interview. So I know I know a lot of you gropers hate hate Milo, but I don't know what to tell you guys.

SPEAKER_01: 54:06

At the very least, we will make it funny one way or another. Whether it's successful or an absolute failure, you will laugh.

SPEAKER_02: 54:16

I'm interested to see like the behind the scenes of what happened with him and Nick. I'd like to hear that story. Um, but also like I've kind of followed Milo since 2015. I I I watched him on Gavin McKinnon's show, and all that. So I I'm very interested to get his uh I want to hear his story, man. I want to hear what made him come to the faith. I want to hear him talk about what made him want to stop practicing the gay lifestyle, a lot of things. So we'll talk, we'll talk about my conversation with Milo on the other side because he uh he and I did speak, and um and we'll talk about Cameron. This Cameron, he's got some nerve. He's got some nerve, Cameron. This kid. He will be on, Cameron. Cameron will be on November 6th, and we're gonna have fun with that interview because we're gonna tease him a bit. So, all right, guys, if you guys are not members already, join us over on locals. That's where we uh that's where we have more fun. So I apologize for ranting tonight. Usually you guys like my rants. I don't know, it was a frustrating week. Thursday, Aaron Gorn. Thursday, Aaron Gorn, Thursday. Aaron Gorn is a Protestant pastor who became Catholic and took 17 people along for the journey.

SPEAKER_01: 55:34

And he used to be very anti-Catholic, knew Keith Naster back in Keith's uh Protestant days, and tried to convince him not to convert.

SPEAKER_02: 55:46

And now we got this is what's really interesting about this is Aaron found us through Keith. Aaron watches a lot of our shows. Like Aaron's been since he's been Protestant, has been watching our show, and he's just been hanging in the chat and like like hinting around that like Catholicism seems more and more appealing to him, you know. And then finally he came into the church this past Easter, taking 17 people with him. Now, a couple of weeks ago, uh Keith Nestor had this young 18-year-old kid, Dominic, call into his show, and the kid lives on Long Island. So Keith, after the show, Keith said, Hey, I'm gonna hook you up with my friend Anthony and see if he can get you to a Latin mass. Uh well, Keith just said, I'm gonna hook you up with a couple of Catholics on Long Island. So the kid had gone to a Novus Orto, like a beautiful Novus Ordo church, like the a really beautiful parish. And the kid was very attracted to the beauty of the faith. So Keith puts me in touch with him. I take the kid to uh to St. Rocco's, a Latin mass, and he brings his Protestant pastor dad with him. So I meet his, I meet him. His dad I said his dad was probably like, I'm not letting you. What do you mean you're going to mass with some guy? Like, what do you what do you mean you're going to mass with some guy? So I met his dad after mass. We had a we had a good conversation. And uh Dominic just texted me yesterday, actually, and he asked me if he could come to mass with me again. And he's and he said, Um, he said, uh, let's see. What did he say here? Uh, okay. He said, he said, by the way, I love your show. I've been watching it a lot. All the Catholic guys I watch always end up on there. I said, Really? Who who do you watch? He said, I'm a big Wagner fan. Also, I know he's Orthodox, but Jay Dyer. So he so he's seen Wagner on our show.

SPEAKER_01: 57:37

He's seen Jay Dyer watches Dyer and Wagner.

SPEAKER_02: 57:40

So what happened was his the reason he even got introduced to some of this stuff is he had a a Greek Orthodox friend who was trying to get him to go to orthodoxy, and he winds up looking into Catholicism. Now the kid's coming to Latin mass at me. Like that the it it for all you people who think we're so divisive, like there's just people with different temperaments and different ways of looking at things, and we're all Catholic. Everybody just chill out. We'll have different roles in this thing. Plus, I'm way more divisive than Anthony. Way more. Keith Nestor's like the evangelist, and he just wants to bring people to the church. Wagner's the Thomas, and he's trying to get into the intricacies of scholasticism. We're just like, I don't know, we just fire off at the hip and whatever the hell's on our mind when we talk about it. We all have our different roles. It doesn't mean we're at like there's any enmity between the different groups. We're all Catholic. We got to figure out how to make this thing work. We got to come up with a way to unite our front and push back on some of this insanity. And I don't know what the right approach is still. I keep talking about that. I don't know. I'm trying to work this out along with you guys. Don't, don't, don't, you know, don't take don't take uh the the words of a of a New York construction worker as infallible. That's all I'll tell you. Like, I don't know, I don't know what to do sometimes. So this is why I tell Zoomers who hate on ant to shut up. They pro clutch and don't know how to talk to people. So true. Look, yeah, because I I think I think some people are very repelled by some of the things I say, and I think some people just need to hear. Like, we're all just different, man. It just just everybody's got their now. You're so now you're sounding like an open relativist. I'm for ecumenical dialogue within the different Catholic tribes.

SPEAKER_01: 59:24

I am. Hold on, hold on. This this is perfect.

SPEAKER_02: 59:29

Some of the hands, some of the feet, and some of the has to be the ass. Somebody has to be the ass. I am very fine being I'm the ass and the mouth. Yes. All right, we're going over to locals, guys. Come join us. There's more fun over there. If you have fun on this side, I promise you, you guys are like the other side. Take us out, Rob.

SPEAKER_05: 59:49

I snap my fingers. You'll forget that you're ever gay. I was never gay. Exactly. Wait, no, stop. No, stop. You can't. I was never gay. Okay. No, I was never gay. Sure. You can't just s state something and slap your fingers and then be like I was never gay. You say so.