How Fatherhood Changed My Life (and Saved My Soul)

The fights are loud; the fixes are quiet. We open with a hard look at how Catholics talk about the Pope—prudence vs. fear, why “seamless garment” rhetoric detonates in trad circles, and what we learned from mistakes under Francis. Then the conversation drops from theory to battle: a sudden wave of despair, the urge to relapse, and the shock of deliverance prayers that cut through the darkness in minutes. No theatrics. Just binding, sealing, and mercy that holds.

From there, we trace the slow road back to reverence. A wife resists the Latin Mass, refuses a veil, and breaks into tears mid-liturgia; a father stops arguing and starts praying the rosary with his kids; families watch baptism in the old rite wake up something deep and ancient. We ask why anyone would restrict the one thing setting young hearts on fire—and we name motives without denying the spiritual stakes. Outrage is easy; building is harder. So we get practical: chant where you can, add vespers, catechize at home when programs fail, invite a Novus Ordo friend to High Mass and lunch for four Sundays in a row.

Callers sharpen the edges. When does venting become gossip? How do you start a Catholic channel without becoming an apologist clone? What lines do you draw around invalid marriages when little eyes are watching? We offer simple rules that keep charity intact: love widely, scandal never, and let the holiness of your home do the talking. We also face Canada’s euthanasia slide and what real honor for aging parents looks like when it hurts.

Along the way, we detour through Augustine, Israel, and typology—not as trivia, but as ballast for the soul. If you’re tired of online shots and hungry for what actually works—deliverance, confession, Latin Mass, fatherhood that keeps its vows—this is your map back to clarity.

If this resonates, share it with a friend, subscribe for more honest conversations, and leave a review to help others find the show. Then tell us: what will you build this week?

Chapters

• 0:00 Bishops, Banter, and a Pope-sized Shadow
• 4:30 Holding Fire on Leo: Prudence or Fear?
• 10:45 How We Talk About the Pope Matters
• 17:20 Seamless Garment and Trads’ Powder Keg
• 23:40 What Didn’t Work Under Francis
• 28:20 Father Dan Rehill, Spiritual Warfare, Masculinity
• 35:00 Suicidal Temptation and Deliverance Prayers
• 43:20 Conversion Threads: Rosary, Fathers, Eucharist
• 51:30 Marriage, Mixed Communions, Returning to Tradition
• 59:20 Latin Mass Resistance, Tears, and Breakthroughs
• 1:07:50 Community, Children, and Culture at TLM
• 1:16:10 Why Restrict Tradition? Motives and Fallout
• 1:23:20 Caller Lines Open: Work, Gossip, and Grit
• 1:31:30 Starting Catholic Media Without Selling Out
• 1:38:00 Building Reverence in a Novus Ordo
• 1:44:50 Rural TLM Outreach: Invite and Break Bread
• 1:52:10 Canada’s MAiD and a Culture of Death
• 2:00:30 Family Duty, Aging Parents, and Honor
• 2:08:40 Young Vocations, Schools, and Paths Forward
• 2:16:30 Handling Invalid Marriages in the Family
• 2:24:10 Bastardy, Natural Marriage, and Grace

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:08

The problem with your ecclesiology is that there are no leaders, right? I mean, we have bishops. We have archbishops, but we don't have bishops. Yes, we do. I have bishops. We have bishops. We do have bishops. My church has bishops. We have bishops.

SPEAKER_00: 0:30

Hello, my name is Bishop Sarah Malale. I'm deeply honored to have been called to serve as the 106th Archbishop of Canterbury.

SPEAKER_18: 0:41

Bravo, Taffy. Oh my god, Taffy. Let's fill up that tip jar for Taffy. Come on, this guy is just he just kills it, man.

SPEAKER_13: 0:50

Um, yeah, Gordon was getting a little cute today on his stream about me. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_18: 0:56

I was actually listening to that earlier.

SPEAKER_13: 0:57

I had to almost like Gordon was getting a little cute on his stream today.

SPEAKER_18: 1:02

Was it him or Steph? I can't remember. It was him.

SPEAKER_13: 1:05

Oh, it was Steph. Yeah, I think it was getting a little cute over there. And not for nothing, Steph. You don't want to start with me because I'll have a handful of things to say about you, and it's not a fight you want to pick.

SPEAKER_18: 1:16

It's like, why is everybody why is everybody throwing shots at each other, man?

SPEAKER_13: 1:20

Come on, I don't get it because I'll be honest, like I did the uh the the rollout show when when the Pope was elected, I had Tim on. And um and then after that show, I was just like, I don't know. Dude, here's the thing. Tim was writing it up to mimetic desire, and that's not what it was. Um it was it's like dude, there's this thing about being Catholic where you just kind of like you don't want to like this, you just feel wrong about like going at the Pope before he's done anything. So it's like I it wasn't like it was all look, I did see a lot of people like after Taylor changed his tune, everybody like got in line. That wasn't my motive whatsoever. Mine was just uh we got done with that stream, and I just like I was like, I don't know, man. Like it just it just felt wrong. That's all I don't know. It's like I'm Catholic and like the guy hasn't even done anything yet, and I'm just like coming out the gate like this. So I was I I just had like a weird feeling about it, you know. It was it wasn't it wasn't that I I was in denial about anything Tim said. I think Tim was a hundred percent right, so I never came out at any point, and we don't want the show to be about the Pope. I'm just addressing Tim's show today. Um so I never like came out and like glazed Leo or anything, I never did the Leo's base or anything. I've always kind of known what he was. I I just think he's like a boomer, like he's just like the epitome of boomer Catholicism. That's you know, that's just my opinion on it. So um, I kind of just like backed off the subject totally, and we just did cultural stuff. Like, it wasn't like I wasn't out there telling people wait and see, I wasn't telling people to zip it, I wasn't saying anything about Leo. I was just every time he came up, I was just like, ah, whatever. That's just how I handled it. I just didn't want to talk about him. Um, and then like two weeks ago, um, like Chris Jackson and Catholic Esquire and stuff, they were they were writing stuff that I was like, this is actually important, and maybe we should start addressing it. So before Leo did his own this past 48 hours or three days thing, like I I started commenting on it again a little bit and just addressing some of those guys, and it was it was actually pretty interesting how like I decided to start talking about it again, and then these whole events just happen, and it but it but Tim's not wrong in that there is this thing with mimetic desire where you don't want to be the guy standing out, being the only guy out there trashing the Pope when everybody else is kind of like chill, you know. So, yeah, that probably did play a little bit of a part in it, but to write that off as cowardice, that's not what it was. It wasn't that. It was just first off, there was nothing to talk about, it was just uninteresting. Um, and I just whatever I just but you know, but Steph can't can't help herself and she has to take a few shots at me today. That's fine.

SPEAKER_18: 4:15

I know the the the the cowardice comment is definitely taking it too far. And I love Tim and Steph, dude. They're the godparents of my youngest daughter, so like I got nothing but good things to say about them. I think it's totally normal to want to hold out hope for a you know, a good pope, a strong leader. Every man has that desire, especially coming off the heels of the the Francis pontificate. I think I don't know, I think that was prudent to not say anything. People could kind of maybe see the the the writing on the wall, but you want it to hold out until hey, you have a reason to maybe think otherwise. And even when you have a reason to say or think otherwise, it's like, man, you got to really practice prudence and temperance and going about how we talk about these things. I just think, man, I don't know, it's it's probably because I'm projecting my scrupulosity on everybody else, but I'm like, I'm looking at Twitter and how people are talking about this stuff. I'm like, man, you guys need to be in the confessional like yesterday.

SPEAKER_13: 5:01

Like, what's uh my my position the past couple days was not even about Leo, it's about the way we're all handling the conversation, and everybody's kind of talking past each other. And I just think there's a way we could do this where we like work together, like there's no reason for the infighting, it's so stupid and annoying, and it's like this one's going after this one, and this it's just so silly, it's it's just stupid, whatever. Like, I'll never take it away from Tim that like he was the first one to go through this stuff, and he you know, he called it from the beginning. Like, good on him. I still don't regret, like, I still don't regret the way I handled it though. Like, I it it I wasn't doing it out of fear, or I wasn't doing it like Tim made the comment. He's like, When did you get the call that you're allowed to talk about? Like, are you come on, stop it, stop it?

SPEAKER_18: 5:48

Like, it's just like locker room talk. We just gotta hash it over.

SPEAKER_13: 5:53

Like, knock it off. That's not what happened. It's actually like three weeks ago I started talking about it, and then the Leo interview came out, and I kind of critiqued that a little bit. And then the last couple of days, I was just like, All right, look, here's the thing I see a lot of new guys, like the Pope Splainers, like just jumping into their reflective Pope Splain mode. And I wanted to explain what the seamless garment was and kind of why there was this uh loaded energy that kind of got let loose by the Trads when Leo made those comments. It wasn't it's not this animosity towards the Pope, it's that those comments were very loaded with things that we who we especially us who have been Catholic under JP2 and Benedict, like that that's a very like sensitive topic because we lived through a lot of stuff that had to do with that, and then so it was just a a loaded it was like a loaded gun going and or a powder keg that was ready to blow off. And Leo said the perfect thing to blow it off. So I tried to have that conversation with the people who were going into their old Francis mode of being, and I don't think that's the way any of us should handle this. And even even with Leo doing what he did, I still don't know what the proper way to go forward is. I don't think anything was effective the way we did it under Francis. Everybody kind of flipped out under Francis, and what we got was traditionis custodas, and then he doubled down again, like it was it nothing, nothing worked the way we did it before. So I think I think we gotta you know come up with a better way to do things, so that's just kind of my position. I says, and I honestly I didn't want to even address the Pope issue with you on the show. I know you've been um you've been going on like Father, uh, who Father Dan Rehill.

SPEAKER_18: 7:34

Correct. I've been on a show like three times in the last month. How's that going? Oh, dude, Father Rehill is an absolute savage. I love that guy, just a super, super kind and but powerful dude. He's reminds you a lot like Ripaker, that kind of like conviction and um uh you know belief and the whole spiritual warfare exorcism piece is obviously very, very interesting. And he's just a good guy behind the scenes. He's like the you know, it's like he's dude, he's a New Yorker like you. What you see is what you get, and I appreciate I appreciate that about my my web my East Coast peeps. I'm I'm curious, uh, how did he come across you? So I think it was his uh producer, uh, I believe her name is yeah, Mary. And this was months back. This supposed to happen like March, April, and then he was you know traveling to Mejigory a bunch of times, and and and you know, we never got connected, and then all of a sudden, like yeah, a month ago. Um, what's up, Mrs. C? That's cool. I you know, I could do side note, I could see how uh Josh Charles just get locked got lost in the comments, dude. It's so easy to do that.

SPEAKER_13: 8:31

It is well. If I highlight something, you could read it. But Josh would literally sit there and just read the comments and like Josh, I'm having a conversation with you, and he he's addressing the comments while I'm talking. He gets upset if I bring that up.

SPEAKER_18: 8:43

It's so funny so funny. He called you up pretty good, though. That was that was a nice little exchange. That was so good, dude. Just legendary, yeah. No, it and then it was about a month ago. Uh he just calls me, he goes, Hey, it's Father Dan. I'm like, Oh, he kind of caught me off guard. And then the first show was just about you know, you know, fatherhood and you know, masculinity, spiritual warfare, etc. And then I made uh a post about the sort of Marian connection between the Arena Zarutska murder, Charlie Kirk's assassination, and the Annunciation School shooting. And then he called me like the next day. He's like, I want to have you on the show again. We did that, and I suppose you know he he he took a bit of a liking to me, dude. He sent me this like package of sacramentals, it's the most crazy.

SPEAKER_13: 9:22

Oh, that's very cool, man.

SPEAKER_18: 9:24

Oh, dude, I I I feel weird about saying that publicly because I'm like bragging about it, but it was very, very kind. Uh, what he sent me, it was just beautiful. And then, anyways, um, he heard he again, I think it was his producer because I don't think he follows me. Uh, sent her the uh sent him the video of me talking about that like demonic encounter that I had. He's like, I want you to talk about this.

SPEAKER_13: 9:42

I I wanted to actually talk to you about it. Somebody, somebody had said to me, Can you ask Mike to elaborate a little bit on that demonic encounter? So I'll say right off the bat, I know you don't drink, and I am I am having a beard and I I don't think that bothers you, but um you you have you have a um you have a pretty wild so we never actually did your conversion story on the show. We don't have to jump into that, but you have some demons in your past that you're still wrestling with a little bit, I guess, right?

SPEAKER_18: 10:07

Yeah, you know, I don't really wrestle with the the the alcohol problem really like anymore. You know, there'll be a couple times a year where I'll have one and the Lord is giving me the temperance to just like put it away. And I think it's a grace to say that like I actually really just don't like it anymore. I think truly it was a grace that I inherited through you know the Blessed Mother's Intercession, the Rosary, etc. But how this thing came about, and the dude, the the the the conversion story, I hate to sound like somebody that's important. I'm really not. I've just said it so many times on like these different shows that I actually liked that we weren't talking about that. That was kind of more off the cuff stuff. That's what I appreciate about the the show. But this encounter in particular was was interesting because you know there was some external, like whatever business stress going on. And then there was it was last Tuesday, uh, where I was just again this gripped with this just irrational fear and despair and sorrow, or like these thoughts of you know what? I should just I should just delete myself and just get it, get it over and done with. Like, what's the point of all this? Like these just insane.

SPEAKER_13: 11:01

Have you ever had those before?

SPEAKER_18: 11:02

Yeah, I struggled with that growing up a lot. You know, I even spent some time in a brief intervention unit when I was like early 20s, dude. I'm not joking, like over a weekend, it was like it was it was wild, it was so crazy. That's a story for a different day. But you know, these have been pretty quiet for a long time. Like, I'm a pretty like hopeful and like optimistic dude. So when these kind of overcame me, I'm like, man, what is going on? And so this stress had like led me to, I'm like, man, I'm I'm gonna drink, I'm gonna drink again. It's been like months and months, uh, but I feel like I'm on this sort of like cusp of doing it. And my wife was just like, I put that woman through so much early on in our marriage. I felt so bad. I was like tongue-tied, and she's like, Please go pray. You knew you have that you know deliverance prayers book by Father Ribiger, please go pray that. Um, and again, dude, I didn't want to pray. I was kind of stuck there, like frozen, like on the verge of like a panic attack. How long how long have you been married? I've been married since 21. So we were civilly married in 21. We've been together since 20 uh 2020, but we get our marriage convalidated August of 2024.

SPEAKER_13: 11:58

Yeah, that I remember, but um, so when you first got married, um, you had your conversion even begun yet?

SPEAKER_18: 12:10

Oh, dude, not at all, man. I was still drinking a lot. I was a Christian, like low church, non-denominational, barely going to church on Sundays, but we were both very much still like believed in Jesus, all that stuff. My conversion didn't really start until end of 2023 when I had my uh my second daughter, Serafina. And that's when like this thought uh came into my mind. I remember being at a service, and there's these two questions that came up, and I'll just I'll never forget. One was I think this was around Christmas time or getting close. Said, why don't they ever mention this is my old Catholic upbringing coming up? And it was why why don't they mention Mary? Like, where where's it's just this woman, his mother? It's like, man, this is just is it just some lady? It can't be. Um, and then there was the the the the the um monthly communion service with the grape juice and cracker that just absolutely I remember like throwing it in the trash. I had this this trash bag, and everybody was just like throwing this in the trash. I said, Man, this is insane. Even if this is symbolic, this is absolutely it makes no sense. I had no idea what transubstantiation was, etc.

SPEAKER_13: 13:08

So wait, slow down, slow down, slow down. I gotta jump into this. So, wait, now did you make all your sacraments as a Catholic growing up? I got all of them except for confirmation. Okay, so you did go through first communion and stuff. So even though you weren't catechized, like you did have like those lingering remnants of your first communion absolutely, right?

SPEAKER_18: 13:28

Okay, oh, definitely, definitely. I did you know Sunday school and and I just didn't receive uh confirmation. That was the only thing. So these old Catholic, this old, even some of the catechesis, which is the very bare minimum, started to come up. And I go home and I'm like, man, this is just I'm unsettled. This is kind of this just pisses me off. This kind of seems really disrespectful. So, and then I kind of you know, I've been a business owner since I was 22, and it's always been my thing, like make money, provide, et cetera. And I'm like, man, am I spiritually providing for my this was a grace that kind of fell out of the ether. And I said, I don't actually know how to defend my faith. I was coming into conversation with a lot of orthodox, a lot of Catholics, and I'm like, man, I don't know how to defend this. This actually makes no sense to me. So let's dig into at least like sola scriptura. So I at least have uh an idea how to defend this. And so it was actually, this is where I got to shout out Josh Charles, where his eternal Christendom blog and New Advent, I think everybody knows New Advent, where you go and kind of read the patristics, you know, stumbling upon St. Ignatius of Antioch, reading the early church fathers. And, you know, I remember just walking. My mother-in-law went to Turkey, and she's not even Catholic, dude, but she she bought this rosary for us that just kind of hung on our our thermostat for a long time. And I said, you know what, man? I'm gonna pray this. Like, Lord forgive me if I'm doing something wrong. I'm gonna pray this role. I don't know how to pray the rosary. I have no idea. I remember watching these videos. I do I do I need to do I need to hold it in my right hand, like how do I do this? Like, I had no idea. I remember my nonna, my bee's nona, my great nona, would pray every day, and I still didn't know how to pray the rosary. So I did that, read the read the fathers, and I was like, I woke up one morning, I said, I gotta be Catholic. Like, there's no going back. Like this sola scriptura domino that fell was like, This is indefensible. Like, I cannot be a Protestant.

SPEAKER_13: 15:02

That is so cool. It's it's it's interesting because um, like I had terrible catechesis growing up, but like some of my fondest memories growing up are my mom praying the rosary with me. Like, I I I was I was catechized enough, right? So, like I when I think back on my childhood, I like I remember my mom putting us to bed, me and my little brother Mikey, and just sitting up and praying the rosary with us when we were little, you know. Uh, that and my mom always showed us Eucharistic miracles. Wow. Um, my mom was like heavy into apparitions and stuff because like my parents went to Mejigory, and like my dad had a conversion in Majigori and stuff. I know Mejigory is controversial, but my mom did show us like the miracles of the Catholic Church. So, like I knew about incorruptible saints, and I knew about um I knew about Eucharistic miracles specifically, so it was I had like a segment of my life where I lived as though God didn't exist, but I never was an atheist, I was always Catholic, I would have always identified as Catholic. But then I got married, and I knew enough that I had to get married in the Catholic Church, and I had to get a dispensation from the bishop because my wife was Lutheran, so my wife had to agree to raise the children Catholic, and she had to write like but her Lutheran service was so similar to the Catholic novus ordo, she was like uh Missouri Synod Lutheran that I wasn't catechized enough to know there was a different, and I would like sometimes we would go to her Lutheran thing and I would receive, and then sometimes she would go to Catholic Mass and she would receive. And we got married at 22, and that lasted up until I was about 30, and then and there was like long periods where I wouldn't go to mass and things like that. And then I had my my original reversion was when I was 30, and I was like on my way home from Atlantic City, and I just lost like five grands. Like we went there for a work trip, and I lost like five grand, and I was being an idiot with like girls down there, and so I didn't like do anything that bad, but like I was just being an idiot while I was down there, like acting like talking as if I wasn't married, and I remember coming home and this guilt, the guilt I felt on that ride home. I was 30 years old driving home, and I come across Protestant radio, and like I give my life to Jesus in the car on the way home, listening to Protestant radio, dude. Like, and for like a six-month period, I don't know if I've ever told this on air for like a six-month period. I'm listening to Protestant radio, like I'm listening to Alistair Begg, like that. Uh Alistair Begg is like I uh he's Scottish, he's a Scottish guy. Um, I'm I'm listening to like all of uh like I bought an RC sprawl book on Romans, like dude. I was like heavily in the Protestant world for like six months, and then I came across this guy, Alex Jones. Well, not the Alex Jones, but I came across this black guy, Alex Jones's conversion story. And he it was a Protestant pastor, and he took his entire family his entire church into the Catholic Church. Like he started reading the church fathers, and he came across Scott Hahn, and he winds up like preaching these Catholic sermons to his Protestant congregation, and half of them end up leaving, and the other half come into the Catholic Church with him. So, but he that he mentions Scott Hahn, so then I listen to the Scott Hahn conversion story, and the rest is history from there, like that. So then, like, I go and I'm on I'm on like the Scott Hahn binge, and I'm I'm listening to his priest conferences and his like every single thing you could imagine of Scott Hahn. I'm like devouring. Um, but then it like comes to a point between my wife and I where I'm like, wait a minute, you can't receive communion at the Catholic Church. And like there was this period she was before that because I didn't know any better. So now I'm like, we're going to church, and we're going to church every week, and she's coming to church with me. And I'm like, No, you can't receive, you're Lutheran. And I tried to like argue her in, and she just eventually got to the point where she's like, Well, I don't want to be a different religion than my children, and I don't want to not be able to receive it. She so she went through RCIA. Um, but it was like one of the worst RCIA programs on earth. So, like, I'm fighting with the instructor, I'm arguing with like it was just a crazy thing. So that was back when I was in my 30s. That and that was like way before my like second reversion when I like come into tradition, and my wife has like her conversion and stuff. But I'm sorry, I'm cut, I'm cutting you off. But so okay, so the demonic attack you're dealing with, you you're starting to relapse into those old thoughts you had when you were younger.

SPEAKER_18: 20:06

Yeah, yeah. No, I didn't hear that story about your your conversion in that detail. Maybe it's because uh I need to get on locals and dust the cobwebs off my wallet.

SPEAKER_13: 20:14

Well, I always had like these little things that I've never told before. Like, there's like I've told portions of my conversion, I've never like really gone through it thoroughly with everybody, but I've I've had I've had more than one conversion. That's the like one more than one. And like I left the sacraments for two years when Francis first got elected because I was so demoralized, and then I kind of came back. But that that initial conversion had to do with like this Atlantic City trip and me like coming in through Protestantism, and I it was a weird, yeah.

SPEAKER_18: 20:44

Well, you know, I dad. I mean, I came back to the church through Protestantism as well. I mean, it was uh we'll get to the demonic story in a second, but there was something I was thinking about the other day that I was gonna make a I'm gonna make a video about this is really interesting. I overthink absolutely everything. Um, but the the year before I started to inquire Catholicism again, I got re-baptized in a Protestant church, as most people, you know, most people do that fall away from the church. Was it a valid baptism? Uh I from what I remember, I believe I believe it was, but it was just it was a re-baptism. So, like, what was that? I don't know. I don't know if that's like a heresy or something you just shouldn't do.

SPEAKER_13: 21:19

Well, yeah, I mean, we believe in one baptism, but if it wasn't done like yeah, you I I get it. Like, I was considering it too when I first came back. I was like, should I get baptized again?

SPEAKER_18: 21:28

My mom's like, No, you're baptized though, like smart mom, smart mom. Yeah, and dude, it was um there's there's probably no correlation between these two things. But two days later, my wife had a brutal miscarriage, like horrible, horrific. Like I was gonna tell this story, especially uh um Kennedy Hall's story, tragic story with his child now that kind of like prompted this thinking about this. I said, Man, is this? I was started to look back. I said, Is it was that sort of like a divine chastisement for doing that? And probably not. I was talking to my wife about this the other night. She's like, No, don't you know, don't, don't think about it that way. Uh, you know, I know God doesn't work that way, but you can't help but wonder. And it was like a year later, almost like to the day, I started to think about Catholicism. It was really this path because after that happened, I I it furthered and deepened my faith, what I thought my faith was at that time. I was just in awe of like the majesty and the this the the power of God where he can snuff life out in a second and you know bring it you know from the dust out of nowhere in a woman's womb. And I was just completely radicalized in my faith at that point. Um, and then a year later, you know, Catholicism happened. So I'm like, oh, are these things all related? Anyways, I probably um overthinking that stuff, but getting back to like the demonic, the demonic story. So yeah, all these things started to come up. Suicidal thoughts. I was gonna drink all these things, and I said, you know what? I uh I'm gonna go pray the deliverance prayers book. I've had it for a long time. It's there, it's a it's an awesome book. And Father Rehill sent me this this little vial of St. Joseph's holy oil. So I said, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna bless myself and I'm gonna go pray these prayers. And I went and prayed the prayers, and it was uh I prayed a bunch of them, but there was probably like the the prayer against retaliation, perimeter prayer, especially the binding prayer and the sealing prayer. And then, dude, I'm not joking. It was like somebody hit the light switch and gone, just disappeared, poof, out of nowhere. From grip like suicidal ideation to contemplating, you know, relapse, which felt like it was an inevitability, and then just gone. Gone.

SPEAKER_13: 23:24

Yeah, for anybody that's never struggled with depression, depression is a strange thing. I only dealt with it one time in my life. Um, but the thoughts, like the dark thoughts, are out of your control, and they kind of just creep in. And I like there was one period in my life where I was like, I never was at that point, but I understood how people get to that point. Because like everything can be going great in your life, and you just have like no desire to get out of bed, and you just like you just have this hopeless feeling. So it's a scary thing if like you're dealing with depression and stuff like that. It's it's it's like out of your control, it's something bizarre, you know. But um, so um that's so that's interesting. So now you're so you you start coming in in 21. Is does your wife think you think you're losing your mind, or how the end of 23.

SPEAKER_18: 24:25

So I'm coming up on yeah, I'm coming up on two years of uh of being Catholic. And yeah, I mean, she would she converted to Christianity from a you know, she was born in Lebanon. So her parents were part of the Druze. My my father-in-law had a background in like the Maronite Catholic Church, but they were raised in the the Druze religion, the Druze faith that's exclusive to this area in Lebanon, which it's kind of like a mishmash of a bunch of different faiths. Like, it's not fair to call them just like a sect of Islam because they take a bunch of different things. So, anyways, she can and she was like Hindu for some time, and then all of a sudden she converted to like Protestant Christianity with a friend in in Australia after attending church, and so she was obviously you know familiar, she was really you know, bold and you know, um entrenched in her faith when I met her. That was part of the reason why you know I wanted to marry her. And but when the Catholic conversation came up, it was it was just and I went about it like a complete idiot, dude. It was like church history, you know, all the all these things, just so dumb, and she just felt she felt so stupid. She's like, What? I don't even understand what you're saying. I you you're making me feel dumb, and I'm getting angry. It's like, how can you not understand this?

SPEAKER_13: 25:34

The hardest thing for my wife was the no salvation outside the church because um, I'm trying to tell her, like, no, you have to be Catholic. She's like, But why do I have to be Catholic? You know, and I'm trying to argue her in. And she just the no salvation outside the church thing was just so hard for her because then she's her mind goes right to wait, so you're telling me my family's going to hell. I was like, Well, your family's probably going to hell anyway, but like Catholic.

SPEAKER_18: 26:05

To put it bluntly, it's like to tell you the truth, you know. It's a hard thing to explain. That specific, it's hard to explain to somebody what that actually means.

SPEAKER_13: 26:16

So she so she goes through RCIA, but then um uh like and she's going through and she does like like she does believe the Catholic faith, but when I left the sacraments in 2016 under Francis, like when the father and the husband and the priest of the home leaves the sacraments, the family leaves the sacraments. Like I'm not being the priest of the home, and we stopped going to church. And when you stop going to church, like you fall back into your old sins, you fall back into your old habits, and so does she. And we had this two-year period where we weren't going to church, and when I came back, I came back because I had like a uh this nightmare that I was in hell, and it was so real. Like I my soul was damned. And I woke up and I I was it was like three o'clock in the morning, and I just like started looking on YouTube and I watched this documentary on Our Lady of Fatima. And dude, this thing like put the fear of hell in me watching this documentary, and I can't now I'm up all night. It was a weekend, so I was like, I didn't sleep at all that night. The next morning I wait until like nine in the morning and I call my brother Joey, and I'm like, Joe, I'm like, I am my and now my cousin Eddie and my brother Joey. When I first convert when I'm 30, I like bring them with me. I my cousin Eddie and my brother Joey are working with me and they're driving into work with me, and I'm taking them through Scott Hahn, and I'm saying, and they're going to mass with me for that period, and they're they're taking their fan. And when I stopped going to the when I stopped going to the sacraments, like it wasn't just me and my family, my brother and my cousin stopped going to like I was a spiritual father to a clan. They were all following my lead, and when I stopped, like they all stopped. And there was this two-year period where none of us went to mass. And I watched this documentary, and I call my brother Joey the next day, and I tell him I watched the documentary. He goes, Anthony, I watched the same documentary yesterday. I'm like, Are you kidding me? It's like I'm not kidding at all. I watched the same documentary yesterday. I call my cousin Eddie, I tell him about it. He goes, You're not gonna believe this. I just watched that documentary. Like within the same day, me, my brother, and my cousin all watch the same documentary. My little sister Chrissy, then like she winds up like going in, like she has a deep conversion, and she goes and stays with these pat the passionist nuns, and it was just it was so many things that just happened all at once that it was just like you saw God's providence. And it was just such a like a an amazing period of time back in 2017, and since 2017, like I the I then I find that but when I find the Latin Mass and I want to start going to the Latin Mass, like there was this demonic reaction from my wife. Like, I'm not even kidding. It did not feel oh, my daughter's calling me. This might be important. Yeah. All right, I'm on I'm doing a show right now. Sorry. My daughter needs money.

SPEAKER_18: 29:50

You gotta do what you gotta do, man. Do what he calls.

SPEAKER_13: 29:53

My daughter needs money.

SPEAKER_18: 29:56

I'm just getting entertained by these comments right here, man. These are you gotta you you guys gotta

SPEAKER_13: 30:01

What comment do you want to address? Any of them?

SPEAKER_18: 30:02

Well, I'm no Mike's doing a great job interviewing Aunt. I think Ant needs another trip. These comments are the best.

SPEAKER_13: 30:13

Um, well, the thing is, I figured so we didn't really like we were supposed to talk about this Anglican archbishop.

SPEAKER_18: 30:18

No, no, this is way better, dude. This is way better. I want to hear about this demonic reaction from your wife because I mean we just went through not that my wife had a demonic reaction, but it was a journey getting back to the Latin mass as well. So go continue, continue.

SPEAKER_13: 30:30

Yeah, so it was it was I I wanted to start going, and um sh there was something I'm not even kidding, I don't know why. Um, it was just she wanted nothing to do with it. Um, so it like and I'm taking my son with me. So like I came across it by accident. Um like I wanted to go to confession one day, and there were the only place for confession was holy innocence in Manhattan. So I go to confession, and after confession, I just walk out, and there's a low mass going on. Really like strange, but then I want to bring my whole family, and my wife was just so resistant to it, and it almost felt like there was like this preternatural situation preventing me from bringing my family there, and I couldn't explain it, and I kept trying to like force her and like tell her and like explain it to her, and she just she was like, I don't know what the hell's going on with you, but this is not what I signed up for. Like, she thought I lost my freaking mind, like she she really thought I lost my mind, and I wound up um giving up on trying to convince her, and I started teaching my kids how to pray the rosary in Latin in the den while she would be cleaning the kitchen and doing dishes, and this went on for a while, and like one day she like her freaking heart just melted from me teaching my child because my daughter, when she finally learned how to pray the rosary in Latin, like she learned how to play the Hail Mary in Latin, she was so freaking excited, and she runs into my wife and she tells my and my wife just started crying, and I was like, Something's going on here, and she was like, I'll go. I'm like, Okay, you know, so she starts coming, and the first one she didn't want to wear a veil. It was like this this, um it was so bizarre, man. I'm telling you, and she winds up coming, and that first one she didn't want to wear a veil, she didn't wear a veil, and I look over at her like midway through the mess, and she's just weeping, like weeping, and I'm like, what the hell is going on here? I didn't know what was going on. I'm like, I don't I don't understand, and I I didn't try to like figure it out. I just put my arm around her and just like held her while she cried. She's just like my shirt was soaked from her tears from it and stuff, and then we went home, and she was just like, That was the most beautiful thing I've ever been to. And then it took about four of them before she like really opened her heart to it, and then the like one of the most beautiful days of my life was my wife just looked over at me. Like, this was after like months of going to the Latin mass and stuff, and then my wife joined like a Bible study with my mom and my sisters, and my wife just looked over at me one day, and she was just like, I'm like deeply in love with Jesus Christ, and it was just like I was like the happiest guy in the world, you know what I mean? Like, just having it wasn't anything I said to her, I didn't convince her of my arguments, I had no sway over her, it was just God moving in her heart, and then ever since then, she's just been amazing, you know.

SPEAKER_18: 33:34

The Latin mass will do that. It does take some time, it was a journey for us as well. And that's a beautiful, it's always our lady that gets gets the women, and then it she draws her close to Jesus and it's game over. It was it was similar, man. We went we went a couple times. My wife was wrestling with the kids, so it's hard for her to really be involved. And then she started RCIA, or they called it OCIA now, whatever, at our Novus Oro. What the heck that's about? Yeah, and then so after that was done, we went to Mexico. We went to Mass when we were in Mexico. I'll add that too. And then when we we got back, we're like, okay, let's try to find. We were trying to do anything except for coming back to the Latin mass. It was in the back of my head, just just like you got to go back. I'm like, nah, 1230, it's so inconvenient, you know. I was being I was being so amazed. It is, and um, and I'll never forget even her. And it takes her, it was it was, you know, she's a patient woman, and so for her to lose her patience, you know, this was this was something. So we went to the basilica, that was a reverent novice ordo, but it was just there was something kind of I don't know, I don't know how to describe it. Then we went to uh a novice sordo that was close to us, and I still go to this priest, he's one of my confessors, and I think he's you know fantastic, he's great. But we went to this mass, and uh, you know, the guitars and the the tambourine, and you know, there was a and I I I struggle with even talking about this because I'm like, man, is this even and this is my scrupulosity coming up in real time? Is this sinful to talk about it in a disparaging way? This is literally just what happened. We saw a woman in kind of like a it looks like she was investments, she had like a pectoral cross, and I looked, I looked at my wife, I said, When what is going on here? Like, this is so tenderism, it's confusing. So we went up to receive, and my wife kneels, she she takes it. I I kneel, and then the priest was kind of caught off guard, and he kind of like dropped the Eucharist in my mouth, kind of like just dropped it, and I go back and I'm just pissed off. The rest of the mass, I'm pissed. My my kids, they were like irritated, but it was a different kind of irritation. There was like a spiritual irritation that happened, and we left, and you know, they were going crazy, so we had to leave, we had to leave early, and I said, We're done. We looked at each other, and it was like at the same time, we said, Yeah, we got to go back to the Latin Mass. And that Sunday after that, we went, we started going to the Latin Mass again, and it it's it's been completely and utterly life-changing. But that moment from my wife, and she loved it, you know, she wore a veil, she wanted to respect the tradition, the whole bit. She go, she goes there, and uh, this was like June. How long is the drive? It dude, 15 minutes. Oh, are you kidding me? I know that's what I'm saying, dude. I know you're kidding me. Yeah, roast. I deserve it, I deserve it. 15 minutes, and I'm talking to these other uh people at the church, and they're driving three hours, two hours, four hours. There's a person that literally drives three and a half hours, four hours every Sunday.

SPEAKER_13: 36:20

And I'm like, man, you are holier than I lucky, yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_18: 36:24

FSSP Parish, the the priest was taught by Ripiger. You know, this guy is just absolutely base. Two priests there. The base one is Polish, one guy is is Canadian. Um, and so the moment for her, though, it was that like that defining moment was when our son Ambrosio was baptized in the traditional rite. We're going through the prayers, the prayers of exorcism, the salt, the whole bit. I'm like, my mind is blown. The whole I I made a tweet today. I said, Man, I why did they take this away? What like it blows my mind? And so after the, you know, he gets consecrated to the Blessed Virgin Mary, we're kneeling there and he does the blessing of the mothers, and he's like, you know, chucking holy water at her. I look over at her and she's just like gone with tears. Just a mess. And since then, dude, she even she even messaged me last night, and there's been a conversation last couple of weeks. She's like, this has been one of the best things that's ever happened in my life. Like, thank you for taking me to Latin Mass. I absolutely have never adored my faith more than I do right now. You know, the the the liturgy, the community, the the reverence, and the everything. She's like, This is like what I've been seeking my whole life, and I didn't know that I that I needed this, but I needed it, and I thank you. And I'm like, man, you know, glory to Christ for that, dude. It's such a grace.

SPEAKER_13: 37:34

The last time I went to a novice order was during COVID because my son, so my all right, so what happened was my son made his confirmation, and I had him in the diocesan like CCD program. And like I wasn't driving an hour to my Latin mass to put him in that one, so I just put him in like the diocesan Latin, you know, I mean the diocesan CCD program, and he made his confirmation during COVID. And I went up to the priest and I go, um, can me and my family receive on the tongue? And he goes, I'm sorry, I can't let you. And I'm like, What? I'm like, Are you serious? I'm like, my like I've taught my children all that they should never receive in the hand. So my kids have never received in the hand, and my son's making his confirmation, and they're telling him he can't receive on the tongue. And I'm like, I'm so mad, and I'm like, Nick, I'm I'm not gonna go up and receive. I said, but it's your confirmation, I want you to receive. So he goes up to receive and he receives, and three people in a row behind him go up, they have their masks on, they put one hand out, they go to pull their mask down. All three of them drop the host on the ground. Oh three people in a row. I was like horrified. Everybody else in the past is like thinking nothing of it, and I'm just like, I'm watching this debacle during COVID of people fiddling with their masks and putting one hand out, and they're all dropping the host. And I just I went up to the priest after mass and I go, I got, you know, I said I didn't, I don't want to make a a big thing of it. I go, but like that that was disgraceful what I watched in there, and I was just so angry. And after that, I pulled my two daughters out of the diocesan C C D program. I went to my my Latin mass parish and I spoke with the priest and I told him the whole story, what happened, and I said, I'm not putting my kids back through that program. I want to catechize my children from home. And he was like, Okay, that's okay, we could do that. We'll set that up. Wow. So I was able to I was able to catechize my daughters from home in their cat in my son's catechism book in uh confirmation class. There was uh they were talking about um who is part of the church and people of goodwill. Now, who are people of goodwill? It's Christians, uh, it's Catholics, Christians, Jews, and Muslims, and trying to insinuate that they're all part of the church. This is a diocesan CCD program. I've never been so furious in my life, like you have no idea. I lost it. I I can't I'm not putting my kids through this. Like that, I'm not putting my kids through this program. It's not happening.

SPEAKER_18: 40:25

That's all, but that's how kids lose the faith. And that was one of the that that was one of the inspirations for us to go back to the Latin Mass. It's not just for our own formation. I said, I want to give my children every possible opportunity or no possible opportunity to leave the faith and every possible grace to cling on to to maintain their fidelity to grace so that their faith continues throughout their their lives. And and and I I see that it's starting to produce fruit, dude. Like my little three and a half year old wears a veil the whole time at mass, just like her mother. My two-year-old is wanting to do the same thing, you know. My uh my son is a non-crying baby at at mass, maybe because he's a Latin mass.

SPEAKER_13: 41:06

He's got an Omazona baby.

SPEAKER_18: 41:11

Yeah, and you you just start to see those fruits come to the surface, and you know, it it takes a while for the kids to produce that that mass muscle, right? When they're that little, yeah. You know, you're sitting through like I don't know, man. People are talking about their low masses being 35 minutes, dude. At ours, it's still an hour.

SPEAKER_13: 41:28

Our high mass is like an hour for a minute low mass stop, especially if you get a homily. But let's be honest, an hour low mass, I'm thrilled with because the high mass is an hour and a half, and sometimes you're just by the end of it. Like, I don't, I I like a low mass, and if they were there was a 30, like if you go to a daily Latin mass, because there is one in Manhattan at Holy Innocence, and it is about 40 minutes. I'm grateful for it. Like, I if I'm going after work, I don't want to be there for an hour and 10 minutes. I want to be there for 35, 40 minutes, and that's fine. But if you go to a daily novice order Latin mass, it's 35 minutes. There's no music, there's no anything, like you're just kind of going through it. There's no homily or anything, you just kind of go through it, you know.

SPEAKER_18: 42:08

Yeah, I went to uh I made the we made the mistake of going to a low mass with our children one time. I'm like, I'm never doing that again. That's a that's a that's a daily mass thing you do without kids, at least at first until they're older. Otherwise, you're just asking for trouble. No, it's it was uh it's so funny. I know I mentioned every time I'm on the show, but like the last that conversation we had about worshiping like a man, I'm like, you can be trad and go to the novice order. I'm like, man, I'm like eating my words so harshly. Well, that's that's kind of did you watch Kwaznevsky on Math Rad?

SPEAKER_13: 42:36

Yeah, incredible interview, dude. So he kind of talked about how, like, once you're introduced to tradition, like it kind of militant, like it makes you militant about it, you know. And then all of a sudden you just like it. It's not that you are judging people who go to the novice order, you want them to go. You're like, no, no, no, you gotta go. You don't understand what you're missing, you have to enjoy this, you have to appreciate this, and that's kind of where it comes from. But it takes a little time to like get into the culture of it because it's a totally different culture.

SPEAKER_18: 43:07

It is, and I just I think uh I've heard some people have some negative experiences with some of the like the parishioners there. I really think this is mostly a projection because we're so used to um you know us being validated, whether it's in the participation of the mass or greeters or people in the pews, like that sort of like casual, friendly setting that you get at a lot of novus ordos. And people are used to getting validated. So when they go and they see people that are contemplating or they're wrestling 10 children, they've got veils and suits on, and they're more serious. It's like, well, this seems stuck up. It's like, no, it's just you're you're just not getting hellos. It is projection, and that was us, it was projection. And then I'm not joking, dude. It it was such an interesting reflection. Me and wife were having the last multiple weekends in a row, we've been hanging out with different families, and every single Sunday since going back, there's a different family coming up and introducing to us uh themselves to us and inviting us over to their their their home with their eight kids, nine kids. These are some of the most beautiful people that I've ever met in my entire life.

SPEAKER_13: 44:02

Yeah, dude, it's mostly it's mostly Novus Ordo Catholic people who grew up in the Novus Ordo who take their faith seriously and they're looking for something like a little more serious than their Novus Ordo. Like so, what you get in these trad parishes is not stuck up traders. What you're actually getting are like people who went to the Novus Ordo but like wanted to go deeper into Catholicism, so they congregate at these parishes, and now you have an entire parish of everyone who takes their faith seriously, like they they believe everything the church teaches. So you're having your kids be around other people who they're raising their kids the same way as you. It's not like going to a Novus Ordo parish where a lot of people that go, and I'm not saying everybody, but a lot of people that go just kind of go for heaven insurance out of cultural reasons, kind of you know, things like that. So it's it winds up being transformative for your family and for the community there. It's it's pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_18: 44:58

And I have to give a I have to give a shout out to uh uh Brian Holdsworth. That guy's got like the patience of a saint. That dude is such a good he goes to the same parish, we go to the same parish, and his family's just tremendous, the beautiful people. And he was just that guy always like, come back, come back here, man. And I remember talking to him on the phone, you know, about us before coming back, and he was always so gracious. And uh, I we you know, Karen and I, my wife and I have decided to kind of be try to be that people to the that that type of person to the other people in our lives that we know are Catholic going to Nova Soto. It's like, hey, come here, like you're welcome here. You have no idea what you're missing out on. Like, we're trying to extend that olive branch and evangelize. Because if it wasn't for Brian, I don't know if we would have um gone back. It was uh it it it it is hard, at least at first, being looking the way that I do. Like, my wife's got a sleeve down to her hand as well. We look like a gangster couple, we don't look trash, we don't look trash. No, you you you it's so funny. People are just like looking because we there's nobody at the parish that looks like we us, and it's not about us, but at first, you're like, Man, they're looking at us like who are who are they? I'm trying to cover up, especially after that conversation that I had with uh with the the priest when I was like, Hey, father, please like baptize my son, and only we've only been coming here for six weeks again, and you know, Brian had to be there to vouch for my character and whatnot. And yeah, he's like totally fine. He goes, But uh, were you like some kind of a criminal or something? He's like, make sure you cover them up, son, when you come into church, don't scandalize anybody else that said, Yes, father. And I left. I was so I was so on fire. I love that being called out like that. It was so good, dude.

SPEAKER_13: 46:30

Yeah, I don't I some men like being put it like being called out on stuff. I you know, it's not like we're not these, especially like a masculine guy. Like, you want to be told you did something wrong and you want to be corrected on it, and it's like, okay, good. I got a priest who cares about my soul.

SPEAKER_18: 46:45

That's exactly it. And so every time you know we go to we go to church, we're both trying to cover up as best we can, and it's stuffy and it's hot. I said, But Lord, this is a this is a penance. I remember like briefly, like yeah, you know, I I kind of threw in the nugget, hey, you know, I'd love to altar serve because no, you're you're a distraction, like you're not doing that.

SPEAKER_05: 47:00

Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, that's good. That's good.

SPEAKER_18: 47:04

That's fine. I'll just sit here and and you know, uh, you know, rebel in that, but it's okay. It's a it's a good thing. It's a bit been a beautiful, beautiful journey, man. Uh, that's why I don't understand, and maybe it's my naivete when uh I think about man, why is there such a war on tradition or against tradition? It just makes no sense to me. And people can explain it like I know the answer, it just makes no, it just makes no sense to me at all.

SPEAKER_13: 47:29

It makes no sense, especially because it's attracting young people, yeah. And it's like there's such a a meaning crisis in the youth now because everybody's so stuck on their devices, and um they're looking for something real, and there's something so real about the liturgy that's been celebrated for a thousand years, you know. It's like it's like taking a time capsule or time machine into the Middle Ages, and you're seeing something so different than you're than you're presented by the culture, so it is countercultural to everything we know, and it's this awesome tool for evangelization, and they just don't care. And it's you know, I asked the question the other day what do you think is the motive driving the men who are restricting this thing? Like, what do you think is the actual motive behind it? Because it could seem demonic. Um, like I I I I can't I have a hard time putting good motives on the men who are restricting this stuff, um, but there's something not normal about them wanting to take this beautiful thing that is attracting young people and setting these young people on fire for the faith, and they want to then like the people that love it, then want to go and bring others to it. It's you have this beautiful, amazing tool for evangelization, and you're trying to stifle it. And I'm I I mean, what do you think is the motivation behind that?

SPEAKER_18: 49:06

I think on one hand, there's I mean, the demonic argument has to be there. There's probably some of that. I think the other piece is uh probably just naivety and and men being a product of the culture that they were raised up in. You know, a lot of people, I think it this was um this was uh Dr. Kozineschi, I think that's how you pronounce his name, mentioned this too. Is that a lot of them just truly believe that you just got he said and it was great, you got a novice harder, novus ordo harder, like and they fully have bought into that whole spirit of the age thing where it's like no tradition is a war against this thing that you know should change with the culture to bring more people into it. And um, but then okay, I I can understand that to a degree, even though you know what whatever. But on the other hand, it's like, well, why are you making the lives of these people deliberately harder? Like, you know, yeah, them being relegated to a parish that's purposely too small or you know, further away, you're like, But why does this this seems to me like you're you're slapping them in the face, like this is not just you want people to come into this new version of the church or whatever that you're like chastising them. It's like why, you know, and and the reason this comes to mind too is that our archbishop moved to actually my hometown. He was relocated because the other guy stepped down. And Canada, we haven't really had any of these problems. As woke and liberal as Canada uh is, uh, unfortunately, uh, it we actually have decent bishops that just don't restrict the Latin mass. There hasn't been this kind of argument, but we we don't have uh an archbishop right now, we don't have a bishop right now. So I'm like, man, could this be a possibility that if we get somebody that then well you're you're you're in a fraternity parish, I think you'll be okay. Yeah, I think it'll be fine ultimately, even if the 1230 sticks, we don't get a bigger, you know, a bigger um church and different times, it doesn't matter. It just you you start to kind of think about these things. I really feel for the people of like North Carolina. It's just like that's that grieves my heart to think about that.

SPEAKER_13: 50:51

It's Charlotte. I mean, I saw Nick Cabazzos put out a video the other day that um uh I don't know if it was Garcia, he was leaving LA and he shut down the Latin mass all over, and then he comes into Texas and he starts shutting them down in Texas, and it's like you know, you have these stable communities where people like it's just it's just evil. I don't know. I don't see any I don't see any way around it. It's evil, and it's because it's it so contradicts their idea of what Catholicism is. They hate pre-conciliar Catholicism, they hate it.

SPEAKER_18: 51:27

Yeah, yeah. And I mean you can see why, you know, a lot of people with their, I guess, through emotionality and and whatever, all the CEDAs are gonna get mad at me. It leads them to City Vicantism or whatever. Um, you know, it's really funny though, too, on a on a different note. I remember having this conversation last week when I was at this person's acreage, they're nine kids and whatever, and the topic of the SSPX came up. And it's so funny how like when you're a new Catholic, you kind of get brainwashed on what the SSPX is or isn't. And as you become sort of more like traditional minded, you're like, man, these people are like unnecessarily, you know, like hurled at. They're schismatic, they're this, they're that. They don't realize that the significance of you know, uh, Marcel. Most of them are just Catholic, man. Very the formation of those young men in seminary is in it, it's insane. And the the piety of the people that go to these pairs. We have one that's like an hour away. I've never been, but like I said, if our Latin mass ever got shut down, I'm like, I'm going there, dude.

SPEAKER_13: 52:20

You know, you know what you don't see with the SSPX, you don't see their priests being e-priests and dancing on TikTok and things like that. Yeah, you know, they don't they don't have that uh crazy desire for attention, and it's like I don't know, they seem pretty, pretty grounded to me.

SPEAKER_18: 52:38

I mean, you saw that Jubilee where they they I think they were at the Vatican, the pilgrimage. It's like those are like strapping young men entering the seminary. Like, dude, it kind of lights you on fire. And I think that's the direction the church is headed in. I don't know. I'm maybe I'm drinking or uh smoking too much hopium, but I I think that's I think that's where it's I think that's where it's headed, dude. Maybe it's because I'm a new Catholic, relatively new Catholic, and I'm kind of wet behind the ears still. But you know, you want to you know have some semblance of hope.

SPEAKER_13: 53:02

Yeah, I think I think hope hope is is important for us. Um, okay, so here's what we're going to do. We are going to, I said the first hour we were gonna kind of just riff. The second hour we're going to open it up to we never even talked about the freaking Anglican archbishop.

SPEAKER_18: 53:18

Yeah, I mean that's kind of whatever.

SPEAKER_13: 53:20

Uh I just I actually thought it was it's like no matter how crazy things seem in the Catholic Church, um you get you see what is going on in other places, and you're like, all right, we still we still there's still some kind of like Jesus Christ is still protecting his church, like there's the level of craziness that's going on in other places is not happening here. We're not having female priests, we're not it's just thank god he's still you know preventing anything from going that off the wall. So we could still that that was kind of you know how I how I saw it. It's the the they have just completely gone off the rails over there.

SPEAKER_18: 54:03

I mean, I there's nothing new to be said about this type of thing. I mean, it's just the the the the product of of Protestantism. This is just this is just what happens. I mean, wait, I'm not surprised, you know. So I mean that's that's why we didn't touch on it very much because there's not much to say about that. You're like, yeah, it's ridiculous, but what else do you expect?

SPEAKER_13: 54:21

Yeah, all right. So I'm going to I'm going to put the stream yard link into um into the locals chat first. So let me just uh are you keeping this uh stream on YouTube or are you going to keep it on YouTube, but we're gonna open up the local like so if you're a locals member you will get a chance to jump on with us. I'm gonna put the link in there before I put it in there though. I'm gonna send it to my friend because my friend has been asking to come on and ask advice. So I'm gonna let him get the first crack at it. And now I'm going to send it to StreamYard. Let's let's just see if he comes on. Um I want to give him a shot because he's been asking me what are you doing your next call-in show? So I'm sending it to him first, and then I'm going to send it to locals. Um while we're while we're waiting on that, um, I had one story that we could cover. Um, I want to know what you thought about this. Um hang on, let me uh so this guy, his um it's kind of crazy this story. So let I want to see what you as a father think about this.

SPEAKER_16: 55:50

He stood up with me on top of him, just stood up and threw me 10-15 feet across the room and went after her.

SPEAKER_19: 55:58

Dean Tipton says December 7th, 2015 is a night that changed his life. He says his children woke him up. He then found a man attacking his children.

SPEAKER_16: 56:07

And when I got to the top of the stairs, he attacked me. He came at me with a knife.

SPEAKER_19: 56:12

The night took a tragic turn with the loss of a life, his six-year-old son, Logan. Dean says immediately after Logan's death, he lost his will to live.

SPEAKER_17: 56:22

I laid in bed. I gave up. I gave up on life. I gave up on my family, I gave up on everybody. I just wanted to die.

SPEAKER_19: 56:34

In the years since, the family has done their best to cope, but mentions they are mentally and emotionally scarred, and they are hurt that Ronald Exantis will no longer be behind bars.

SPEAKER_12: 56:45

Everybody deserves a finding chance to have justice for them, and it's not.

SPEAKER_16: 56:52

I've I've had my talks with God because I I'm not afraid to tell you, oh, I told the court, if I ever cross paths with him, I will kill the man, I will kill him where he stands.

SPEAKER_13: 57:04

So that guy took the life of his six-year-old, and he was supposed to serve 20 years, and they're letting him out in 10. And this father said, if I ever come across that man, I'm gonna take his life. And I'm like, Yeah. Like I I like what do you do? What do you do other than that?

SPEAKER_18: 57:29

I I don't think I mean everybody could piety signal and just say a virtue signal, say you know, you just forgive, you forgive that man. I'm not that holy of a man, I'm not that holy of a man. You call me flawed, but there's no way, and maybe that's the one time in my life, maybe not the the one time, but I sin by presumption and just say, I'm gonna kill this man, and then go to the my confessor the next day. That's just what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_13: 57:52

Man, I don't condone it, but I understand it. It's like that. Uh, you ever see that video of the the father, his son was um son was molested, and they're bringing the the the guy who did it through I don't know if it's an airport or something, and the guy and the father's just sitting there waiting and he just popped them. Yeah, and when that guy went to court, the jury wouldn't convict him. The jury was like not guilty, yeah.

SPEAKER_18: 58:20

Yeah, I I just and there's part of me, maybe this is this is maybe this is naivete. I think I think God, I think God would understand that. I just I just think God would would understand that, yeah, it's not the civil magistrate, whatever it's you to you, but it is your that that is that is justice being played up, but that's the point, right?

SPEAKER_13: 58:38

Like with all this talk about about the death penalty, and it's like, well, no, we have modern prison systems, and the person's going to be able to, and it's like this guy's doing 10 years for taking the life of a six-year-old. Are you insane? No, justice. Like, justice would be what that father is about to do.

SPEAKER_18: 58:56

You're rendering one to what what they're owed, you're rendering God what he is owed. It's like you shed one man's blood, your your your your your blood is going to be shed. That's Genesis, dude.

SPEAKER_13: 59:03

And I and I and I almost think the father has a duty to do it.

SPEAKER_18: 59:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I I can't I cannot disagree. I mean, just listening to that story makes my blood boil. I go and look at my children, I can imagine somebody just like breathing air in the wrong way in front of them. Your kids, which is like there's just no chance. I fully understand him. Anybody that says otherwise, dude, I don't know. Maybe you're they're holier than me, but there's absolutely no chance, you know, I would let that fly.

SPEAKER_13: 59:30

All right. So uh my friend Patrick is gonna join us first before I send the link to StreamYard. So, what happened, Patrick? You don't want to put your uh camera on? Yo, can you guys hear me? We can hear you loud and clear. What's up? What's going on, Anthony? Nothing much. So, Patrick, for anybody that doesn't know, Patrick came to on the Italy pilgrimage, and uh he's uh him and I he lives on Long Island. Him and I have hung out several times. Me and him are going away in December.

SPEAKER_20: 59:58

So I don't want to get ducked. So, how you doing, bud? What's going on? So, uh, so this is the thing. This is what I wanted to bring up to you guys because Anthony, I recently made my first quote tweet, and it was it's actually almost kind of about that because I know on the show you got you guys talk a lot about like the trials of men with like the red pill, the black pill, the incels, like all like the degenerate, like like just sex everywhere, like adultery, like all of those different factions. And I think kind of the answer to the problem, and I wanted to get your guys' comment on this, is the idea of like what I was talking about in that post, which is basically that there is a level of greatness of soul that is required of men, because in the red pill, what you're seeing is that you know, greatness and that like striving, but it's for vanity, and it's not even for vanity, even if it's not inherently wrong, it's for the sake of itself. But I feel like if men decided to do great things not for the sake of themselves, but for the sake of God, and try to emulate figures like that, like from the crusades, like St. Louis IX or Saint Fernando the Third, like you don't have to be like the bench pressing 500 person, like even in your own sphere, emulating that, I think that would solve a lot of the problems. And to end my point, like Father Ripper was on and he was talking about like how in the church, like uh, like a lot of like the graces have kind of like been abandoned and like God took them away, and like they we're seeing all this shit going on. Oh, sorry, all this stuff going on all the oh, so to end my point, you're seeing all this stuff like going on in the world world, this debauchery, and I almost see the same thing with men. I feel like almost kind of in a way, like, because we're not seeing a lot of spiritual fathers in the church, and I feel like that is almost kind of like a divine chastisement on men that we have to really depend on God's grace to be able to really develop that. So, yeah, I don't know. I that's like my thoughts. Like, I don't know what you guys think.

SPEAKER_13: 1:02:30

So, all right, so that wasn't a question, but no, you're right. We are dealing with a complete lack of fathers right now, right? And that's why, if especially for you guys that are fathers, your role as priest and father of your home has never been more important.

SPEAKER_18: 1:02:47

I think if you're gonna show true, you know, magnanimity, greatness of soul, um, I think you ought to emulate that in every sense. The supernatural, of course, and in the natural, that being secondary. And so, because I see a lot of on both sides. So the red pill is very self-indulgent, where our faith calls us to be uh, you know, selfless, you you know, act in uh according to self-denial and humility. But on the other hand, you know, you get a lot of trad guys. I'm gonna call it the pencil neck trad here for a second that don't care at all at all about the natural, and it's all supernatural. And hey, listen, these guys are very pious, but they're also just like their bodies are just transport mechanisms for their heads. It's like, yeah, how about be the guy that is the monastic warrior like the crusader that is um lives a life of penance and mortification, fortitude, temperance, prudence, justice, the whole bit uh lives the faith, but also like looks like he lives the faith. You know, these are also, you know, this is also a tool of evangelization. You know, it it is it is another way to exude power, not just with your family, but uh to the world around you. It's like listen, if we believe in the something in something that is the the true good and the beautiful, why wouldn't you embody it in the natural as well? That doesn't mean you have to be the guy that bench presses 500 pounds, but like do something with your body, dude. It's all encompassing, my guy. It all of it.

SPEAKER_20: 1:04:04

Yeah, we are that's all that's all that's I just wanted to get your guys' take on all of this stuff because this is like an interesting topic.

SPEAKER_13: 1:04:13

All right, Patrick. We'll talk behind the scenes. All right, thanks, guys. See you, bud. Okay, all right. We got Jacob up next. Jacob, what's happening, brother?

SPEAKER_11: 1:04:24

Hello, sirs. How are y'all doing?

SPEAKER_13: 1:04:26

Very good. What's going on?

SPEAKER_11: 1:04:28

So my question's kind of simple. So I am struggling with kind of the line between venting and gossip when it comes to working. So you deal with like, you know, the person that does the bare minimum, the person that kind of irritates everyone. And, you know, I think it's healthy to, you know, vent about your coworkers sometimes. But where does kind of that line between venting turn into gossip, turn into detraction?

SPEAKER_18: 1:05:00

Venting is another word for gossip. It's it's just a misnomer. It's another, in my opinion, it's another word for gossip. I think it's a very, very, very effeminate trait when you got a vent about a coworker. I just think it's retarded personally. If you want to vent a problem, go talk to the person. That's it. That's my opinion. I'm not coming at you. I just like vent venting. I'm Italian. I grew up like, yeah, we just got a vent. It's like, no, we don't. We don't got a vent.

SPEAKER_13: 1:05:24

So now I vent on here a little bit.

SPEAKER_18: 1:05:28

Understand about public statements, it's a little bit different. Maybe that's a little bit different, but these little things we have in our private lives, like, I don't know. No venture.

SPEAKER_13: 1:05:36

Yeah, I I would say, um, especially if that venting is like bringing something up in your heart. Somebody's asking um if I'm sick or if I have allergies or something. I actually have a headache right now. I'm hoping it just goes away kind of quick. So if you guys see me like rubbing my temple, it's it's almost gone. I know it is, so um, just bear with me, guys. Um, all right. Uh yeah, I would say um gossip's a rough one, but if it's if if you're if you're dwelling on it and it's causing something in your heart to like dislike the person more, I would I would cut it out of it. And it especially if you're making someone else dislike that person through what you're saying, you have to be very cautious of that. Um, but you know, I'm I'm guilty of it too. So I don't know if I'm the greatest one to give it to give advice on that because I I've done it on this show, so it's a near occasion of sin, too.

SPEAKER_18: 1:06:33

Like when when is the line crossed when you're actually actually gossiping, you're detracting, or what have you. You know, I just don't do it. Don't do it. Yeah, just don't punch him in the face.

SPEAKER_13: 1:06:43

Much, much healthier.

SPEAKER_05: 1:06:44

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_13: 1:06:45

No, all right, Jacob, we're gonna go to the next call. Thanks for calling. Um, uh Salahas, I'm not bringing you on. Uh David.

SPEAKER_07: 1:06:54

David, what's happening, brother? Hey Anthony, good to see you again. And and uh Mr. Panzila, it's uh pleasure to pleasure to meet you. I I love your work and you're an inspiration. Uh I I I felt I felt kind of called out in a sense, uh pencil neck trad because I'm I'm an inspiring.

SPEAKER_05: 1:07:09

I love you, bro.

SPEAKER_07: 1:07:11

I like to think I'm in an in the act of becoming currently because I don't even go to Latin mass regularly. I I'm I I actually work as a youth minister in my Novas Ordo parish, though I would like to go to Latin Mass more, and I've accidentally converted a few kids to the Latin mass. So um anyways, that that aside, I got kind of a two-parter question for if you don't mind. The first is a really quick part, and the second's a little more in-depth, but uh the uh the first part I I'm might be a silly question, but I'm curious. What what's what is the software you guys use for your your stream setup here? Like like like the you got the little windows coming up and and all that stream yard. Stream yard, okay. I I'm I'm familiar with OBS in general, but I haven't really gone to in depth.

SPEAKER_13: 1:07:52

OBS is probably better. You could probably do a lot more with it.

SPEAKER_07: 1:07:54

Anthony would not know how to use OBS.

SPEAKER_13: 1:07:56

No. Rob doesn't even know how.

SPEAKER_07: 1:07:59

It's it seems like it's a little bit to get into, but once you get into it, you kind of you can go places fast from what I understand. But that kind of leads into the next part too. Um I so I've been kind of going back and forth for like years now about uh like I have a YouTube channel and I've posted some things to it and streamed a little bit to it, mostly video game content. But like I I've been going back and forth about the possibility of doing some sort of Catholic or Catholic adjacent content. And something that you guys said a while back really spoke to me was uh not not too long, it was probably within the past few months, that you guys wanted to have this channel to not be like like hyper intellectual, like we're not here to we're not here to uh uh what was the word, not proselytize, but you know, we're not here to be uh we're not an apostolate, we're not a we're not a ministry, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_13: 1:08:47

Catholic guys talking about Catholic things.

SPEAKER_07: 1:08:49

Right, right. And you know, being a younger millennial for m all of my childhood and into the present, like all of the especially like video game adjacent concepts and any kind of like media related concept, which Anthony, I know I know you're not big on video games, but like I I get that, I get that. Like there's a lot of bad there, and and I I feel like I have a pretty good idea.

SPEAKER_13: 1:09:07

I'm not like anti-video game because I think I would be on it, so like I would be such a hypocrite uh if I talked about video games because I'm on Twitter so much and I don't think much of a difference. Like I've wasted my time on a screen either way.

SPEAKER_07: 1:09:21

So my my excuse is I tend to lean more family-friendly Nintendo slop anyways, so yeah. Uh but yeah, like so I've just been going back and forth like about whether that would make sense to have a channel where I I I kind of like you guys, just kind of just just kind of shoot it with some friends and then talk back and forth and have little just a little conversations, but just we happen to be Catholic people and therefore we'll automatic that'll automatically come out in conversation. And same kind of thing for streaming or playing video games or talking about video games, where it's like, you know, there's just yeah, most of the content creators in that sphere for all my childhood on to the present have it's been largely dominated by far left, progressive, atheist kind of creators with very few in between. Yeah, yeah, also like Destiny's a good example, like but even like the more kind of chill people on YouTube are um trivial, yeah. I should start with the trivial show. Um, but yeah, like you even some of the more chill people that aren't like as outwardly political, like once you kind of see them slip in jokes or talk about things on Twitter, it's very clear, like okay, like all these people are like very hardcore progressives. So, like I don't know. I just wanted to hear your thoughts. Would it make sense to throw in throw in a voice, try that out? Do you do you think it's gonna be good?

SPEAKER_13: 1:10:34

If you're going to try and make money doing it, you know I got an idea how difficult it is to make money doing podcasting, and it'd be a hobby. But if you if you just want to do it as a hobby to for fun and like try to build like a small little audience, do it. Yeah, I I couldn't suggest anything more. It's uh because this show, even if I wasn't making money at this point, has become such a fruitful thing in my life. Yeah, uh, I touched on it the other night a little bit where um I've had I had like a few addictions in my life that I was like the community of this show helped me get rid of those addictions, and I've been able to it's helped my family, it's helped everything, and just having somewhere to come and talk about the things that matter to me and in uh around other Catholic men has been something huge for me. But I I'm going to tell you like the the market, like if it's for financial reasons, it's a very long, slow build. And it would matter your motivations.

SPEAKER_07: 1:11:34

Yeah, that that's something I figure if if on some freak chance I hit it big, then I'll you know I'll double down on it and yeah, see what happens. But I I'm not expecting anything to come of it that way. I just it it'd be if I honestly, and this is kind of silly as it is, but it'd be it'd be an excuse for me to actually play the mini games that I own. I have a bad habit of buying games and not making it. Talk to Thursday.

SPEAKER_13: 1:11:54

Third Thursday, Thursday's trying to do like gaming and stuff like that. He'd be in good contact.

SPEAKER_18: 1:11:59

Yeah, I'll take a look at that. All I can say about that is have a direction for it, yeah, and it's either 100 100 or nothing. Yep, yep, 100% or nothing. And if you want to do something financial with it, you have to have something you have to you can actually offer men that inspires them forward, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like solving a problem in your own life that you can help other guys solve in in the in a way that calls them forward. You can do that financially. But if it's a hobby, even if it's a hobby, you got to do it right. Just please, please do not become an apologist, do not do that bullshit. Please do not do that. No more, no more. No, no, nobody wants to hear that stuff, nobody wants to hear that stuff anymore. If it's just a bunch of dudes like us that kind of talk about it.

SPEAKER_13: 1:12:41

It's not the Nintendo Thomas, Nintendo Thomas.

SPEAKER_18: 1:12:44

That's actually got a ring to it, man. And David, I saw a comment too. Uh it it sounds like you can you can speak reasonably well as well. So, like, I mean, I think it would go well sometimes if you if you consistently consistency is is the game, but do it hard 100% or nothing.

SPEAKER_07: 1:12:59

You you caught you caught me on a good a good day where I'm stuttering night you know 10 of how much I normally would. So go and do it.

SPEAKER_13: 1:13:08

If you if you do start something, let me know and we'll try and help promote it for you.

SPEAKER_07: 1:13:13

Absolutely. Thank you, thank you. If I'll I'll announce since my my usernames are obscure and goofy, I'll just announce myself as David if I do. So thank you.

SPEAKER_13: 1:13:21

Yeah, if you if you follow me on Twitter, you follow me on Twitter.

SPEAKER_07: 1:13:24

I don't have a Twitter.

SPEAKER_13: 1:13:26

Okay, well, if you leave a message in locals, just let me know and I'll I'll shout I'll throw it out on Twitter and then we'll mention it on the show. If you I'll I'll always look out for the local supporters. So awesome.

SPEAKER_07: 1:13:35

Thank you guys so much. You guys are awesome. Keep doing what you're doing. You got it.

SPEAKER_13: 1:13:39

Nice to meet you. All right, who we got next? Uh let's see. I see, I see, oh, we gotta do oh, all right. What's up, Tommy?

SPEAKER_09: 1:13:49

We are tonight's entertainment. What's up, what it is. All right, I'll get straight to it. So, for the last 40 years, and at least four popes in what they have taught, permitted, and practiced say that Vatican II and thus the Catholic Church teaches that the 1986 Assisi meeting, the gathering of 30 plus false religions praying together with Catholic leaders, that that is the Catholic Church. So is it Catholic teaching or is that an act of apostasy?

SPEAKER_18: 1:14:31

I love dude, you know I love you already, because on X we have a good relationship. I you know I love you already. It's cool seeing your face.

SPEAKER_05: 1:14:37

I thought you'd actually be Asian, like like uh I got I got one for I got one for you after this remark though, but yeah, that is bullshit.

SPEAKER_13: 1:14:47

What do you want from us right now? Like I'm not doing this with you, like I'm not becoming a CNA, dude.

SPEAKER_09: 1:14:52

The question is was a CC is that an act of apostasy by John Paul II or or not? Or is it more let me give you another option? Let me give you another option. It it would be an act of apostasy if I did it, but because he is the Pope or Bishop or something, he has a special privilege where he gets to get away with that. Like I think I'm trying to get your position.

SPEAKER_13: 1:15:17

I want to know your position on this. You know my position on this. I honestly think you were better off being Mormon than said I, like you should go back to Mormonism. Dude, I'm not doing this tonight. I love you, brother.

SPEAKER_09: 1:15:30

You know who's closer to Mormon is you, actually, but we're not gonna get into that.

SPEAKER_13: 1:15:34

I love you, Tommy.

SPEAKER_09: 1:15:34

You're always like, what was Mike gonna say though? What was Mike gonna say? I have I have a good one. Mike's gonna love uh the other thing I had to say, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_18: 1:15:42

I just think if you guys actually thought this through and like uh took a Pascal's wager approach to your faith, you guys would like get off the internet, touch grass, and submit to the Pope and not play with your salvation the way that you do. So you can come at me for that, bro. I just say that I say that in charity and in love, but like you guys, you guys gotta get off the internet and go touch grass.

SPEAKER_13: 1:16:01

All right, all right, I'm gonna knock it off. You know, that's not what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_09: 1:16:08

If you're gonna start doing it, my uncle Mike will like, okay. Um, so that'd be interesting. Okay, so you know at the gym when they they get the cable machine and then they take it and they go like 30 yards down the end of the gym, you know what I'm saying? So I was thinking, once you get past four feet, wouldn't that be wouldn't the uh the distance from the machine be inversely proportionate to the uh the gains in strength and and uh and muscle, right? You get you get what I'm saying? Like the scientific weightlifters, they take the cable like 30 yards across the gym and they lay on their back and you do the scientific weightlifting stuff.

SPEAKER_13: 1:16:51

You gotta you gotta call into you gotta call into the the Latin Slavs for this question. All right, Tommy, we'll let you go, bro. I love you.

SPEAKER_17: 1:17:01

He's such a sicko.

SPEAKER_13: 1:17:03

That dude's hilarious. Uh good. I love I love him. I'm not doing the set anything, but he is funny, he's got a very good sense of humor. He's he's he's hilarious, not serious at all. All right, redeemability, your mic's off. What do you got?

SPEAKER_14: 1:17:17

Yeah, yeah. Alrighty. So uh just a little background here. I've been attending the Latin Mass for let's say about five years since like post-COVID, a little bit after COVID. Um basically, my wife and I moved back to my hometown um because well, uh expenses, everything's super expensive nowadays. We want to save some money up for a house living near the TLM in the future. Problem is uh the TLM out here got TC'd pretty early into it, uh like back in 21. So we're kind of dealing with the wreckage of things, and I'm I want to kind of hear from y'all because I'm trying to rebuild this place as much as I can while I'm here and make sure I leave it better than you know it it was left. We have a good priest, he's sympathetic. He told me like we can do Vespers uh after I asked him. So I just want to hear outside of Vespers, what would you maybe suggest I pitch to the priest to make sure we get this like as good uh and like try it as we can?

SPEAKER_13: 1:18:21

You're in a you're stuck in a novus ordo.

SPEAKER_14: 1:18:24

Yeah, it's uh it's a reverent one, but it's still the novice order, you know what I mean? It's Latin and Gregorian chants, all that. It's it's gonna be set up to become a TLM whenever or if ever we this TC stuff gets lifted, but it's uh it's gonna be a novice order.

SPEAKER_13: 1:18:40

When you say reverent, like this does he have altar girls, does he have like what how what is what is reverent to you? That's what I want to know.

SPEAKER_14: 1:18:48

Every everything everything that would be in a TLM is there, it's just ultra boys, it's ad orientum, it's everything that that a TLM celebrant would do except that it's so it's pretty it's pretty unicorn, like it's really a unicorn you're you got yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_13: 1:19:06

Uh see if you could add Gregorian chant and as much Latin as possible.

SPEAKER_14: 1:19:10

We got it, we already got that.

SPEAKER_13: 1:19:13

I mean, I don't I don't know. Why are you upset, my guy? Yes.

SPEAKER_14: 1:19:17

I'm not really upset. I'm just I'm just thinking, like, what would y'all suggest outside of adding like a Vespers or something to where I guess we could make this parish a little more full of of life as like an FSSP would be or something else.

SPEAKER_13: 1:19:32

I'm not upset by it. Separate separate the men and women, make the women go to separate masses. I don't think that's possible. If babies cry, throw them out. I mean, I don't know what you're looking for. Sounds like you got the best of like the best of the situation you could possibly have. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_18: 1:19:50

Yeah, if I had access to that kind of novice order, I I I mean, I I wouldn't really be upset. I mean, uh ultimately I'd still just try to go to the TLM, um, because that's where you're gonna get the fullness of it. But if you're in a place where T T C is you know heavily enforced, I think you got it, man. I think you got the best of both worlds, and a lot of people would love to be in your position. So go and uh don't try to change things and just be you know, just immerse yourself in it as best you can.

SPEAKER_14: 1:20:14

Fair enough. All right, guys.

SPEAKER_13: 1:20:15

All right, brothers. Nice talking to you. Um okay, we got Catholic Canadian. What's happening, bro? Oh my guy, what's up, dude?

SPEAKER_06: 1:20:24

What is up, Mike? Is my audio working? Yeah, you're good, bro. You're good. All right, man. Uh one, yeah. That guy in the video at the beginning, yeah, it is pretty justified. Thinks anyone touches your child, does anything like that, you know. Straight up pop them, you know. As much as yeah, you want a virtue signal, say uh be Charlie Kirk's wife, oh I forgive you. No, no, forgiveness one didn't do it.

SPEAKER_18: 1:20:52

For context too, Scott's in my men's group. So me and me and this dude, me and this dude are are pretty close. So fellow Canuck, good to see you, Scott.

SPEAKER_06: 1:21:00

Anthony, I had to ask you, like, if you're like some big muscly masculine guy, um, wouldn't you find it kind of would you be a pansy and not want to do cold showers for uh or would you would you complain about that? Would you make it such a big deal? Uh you call me out on a live stream.

SPEAKER_18: 1:21:24

You're calling me out on a live stream, anyways. And during Lent, I tried to do cold showers, and after like five days in the middle of Alberta, I was like, I ain't doing this. These pipes are they became lukewarm.

SPEAKER_13: 1:21:34

Yeah, I was like, they won't be scalding hot, but like I'll turn a little bit of the heat down for you guys.

SPEAKER_18: 1:21:42

Yeah, call me out. That's fair, dude. Nice one, bro. Come on. Yeah, I didn't really have much.

SPEAKER_13: 1:21:51

Is the men's group in person or is it online?

SPEAKER_18: 1:21:53

No, it's it's it's all it's all online, yeah. Yeah, well, remember the video yesterday.

SPEAKER_13: 1:21:59

Uh is that meaning Scott, unless you got a question. You got an actual question?

SPEAKER_06: 1:22:03

Uh no question, just uh prefer my wife's uh delivery of our child, first child.

SPEAKER_13: 1:22:10

Sounds good, Scott. Nice meeting you. We'll see you next week, hurry up. Hopefully, it's well done.

SPEAKER_18: 1:22:17

God bless you, bud.

SPEAKER_13: 1:22:19

Um, all right, Matt. What's happening, Matthew?

SPEAKER_08: 1:22:22

Oh, yo, what's up, guys? Uh hey, first I just gotta say I appreciate Ant for uh being a blue-collar Catholic. It's just not super common. And Mike, I used to be obsessed with making games when I was in my early 20s. So I just appreciate both you guys. So just starting out with that. Like, I appreciate both the work you guys do. So thank you. Yeah. Um, so the question I've got. So I live in super rural America. Uh, I'm a dairy farmer. Uh, there's like hundreds of other farmers in my little town of 1400 people. We're blessed with a uh Benedictine monk who says a TLM for us every Sunday. He has daily masses for us at his monastery. It's phenomenal. But um, the weird thing about it is that I hear on Catholic YouTube everybody saying their TLM's bursting at the seams. It's just so many young people, it's just so great. And uh my wife and I are probably the only two at the TLM under the age of 40. It's just uh it's abnormal or it feels abnormal. So asking you guys, I thought you two'd be good people to ask. Um, like for rural people, blue-collar people, it just doesn't seem like it's catching. Uh, it feels like it's too maybe scholarly or theological for blue-collar, rural, pre-simple people. What's your guys' recommendation? Uh, Northern California, way like like Baja, Oregon is kind of what we call it. It's the the lost coast of California.

SPEAKER_13: 1:23:47

And you're saying it's not that many young people there?

SPEAKER_08: 1:23:50

No, I'm saying there's no young people there. I'm 29 and I'm the youngest. Do you know any novus ordo Catholics? Oh, yeah. So that I meant to say that the two Novus Ordo masses that happened before the TLM are packed. I mean, just absolutely packed. So it's just a weird situation. And it's like, you know, it's not really on me to like save people's souls by go to the TLM. Like, if they get a lot out of the Novus Ordo, good for them. But it is just odd because I see this trend everywhere else. And here it's just, you know, it's just kind of uh it's kind of lonely, I guess you could say, being the only young person there. So what's your guys' recommendation to like try to get young, kind of just simple people to the TLM? Like, what's the best sales pitch you guys got?

SPEAKER_18: 1:24:34

Yeah, I'm gonna jump in here real quick, uh uh, Anthony. And I do a lot, I do a lot of work with uh with young dudes. And Matthew, I really appreciate the kind words too, brother. I'm gonna call you out a little bit though. You're 29, right? A lot of these dudes overthink really simple, simple problems. Uh you go and be the guy that invites those young people to the TLM. That's it. That's the solution. Simple. Most of the most questions like this, most questions are simple, have simple solutions. They're just like not sexy, right? It's like not sexy to do that. So, like, that's what I would do. I would go and be the guy that evangelizes the the young people to TLM, and then that's how you transform your TLM, my guy. I feel you, what are you what are you doing, my dude?

SPEAKER_13: 1:25:19

I'm putting the train yard link in the YouTube comments.

SPEAKER_08: 1:25:23

That guy's crazy. I'm uh I'm Italian too, but I'm Swiss Italian, so I'm I'm actually working.

SPEAKER_18: 1:25:27

You're not real Italian, northern Italians, fake.

SPEAKER_08: 1:25:30

Hey, I'm up in I'm up in Como. I mean, that's God's country up there. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_18: 1:25:34

Fake Italian, bro. Come on. No, no, that's right. What do you think, Anthony? What do you think?

SPEAKER_13: 1:25:40

I I think if you know Nobus Ordo uh Catholics, you have to be the one to bring them. Like, that's how that's going to work. Like, if you know people in their in their lives that are that are that actually like believe the Catholic thing, you gotta kind of do what Brian Holdsworth did to Mike.

SPEAKER_08: 1:25:58

Yeah. So what do you do? Like hold their hand and walk them in, or do you just say, hey, like this thing's sick and you need to check it out? Like it's yeah, that's what I did.

SPEAKER_13: 1:26:06

I've I've dragged, I've dragged multiple people to the Latin mass. And here's here's how I presented it to them. I said, Listen, this is going to be something, uh, if it's you have to present it as listen, this is you're going to be taking a step into the Middle Ages. This is something very unique that you're going to see. Um and you might not get it on your first runaround. But if you stick around a little bit, you'll actually wind up seeing like the uh Catholicism in a way that you've never really experienced before, and get them to go to two or three in a row. And if you get people to go to two or three in a row, that's that's when they'll be hooked.

SPEAKER_08: 1:26:43

Yeah, that Taylor Marshall, like go to four in a row kind of things. I mean, that's what got me hooked, right? I mean, it really does work. You see it, and you're like, wow, this is like this is for real. Like, I feel like I missed out. You guys say it all the time. But yeah, when I went to my first one, it was uh my brother got married in the TLM and my sister-in-law got married in the TLM. Those were my first two I attended. I'm like, man, I've been missing out. I can't believe I got married to the Nova Sordo. You know, I missed out on this. So, anyways, no, I appreciate it though. You got evangelists, yeah. Bobby, dude.

SPEAKER_13: 1:27:11

Bobby said, invite them to mass and lunch after to get them to join you. That's all. It's really the best you can do.

SPEAKER_08: 1:27:16

So in my small town, there's like one pizza shop. So I guess that's it, right? That's all I got.

SPEAKER_13: 1:27:21

It's even easier then, yes, sir. All right, appreciate it, guys. Thanks for going and see what you can do. Uh it's nice meeting you, Matthew. All right, I guess nobody else wants to jump on with us, man. That's that's funny. Last time we did this, it was like a hundred people wanted to jump on, but um, we can um hang on. Let me see what else I got. We got plenty of stuff.

SPEAKER_18: 1:27:38

I mean, unless you gotta go, Mike. No, I'm I'm I'm good, man. Yeah, right. May have made the time. I'm about half cut like you are, but well, I'll I'm hanging in there.

SPEAKER_13: 1:27:48

Uh well, so my headache's gone now. Thank god. Like that was like I was in bad shape for a little a good 40 minutes. Uh I was in bad shape. Oh, we got another, we got another. Um, we have pretty mutual. We have a uh uh what happened? Yeah, I don't know if you hung up on us. Um this is a good story for you, actually. Being a Canadian. Uh this is this is a good story for you being a Canadian, let me say.

SPEAKER_18: 1:28:27

Future Dominican. I was getting excited there for like half a second. What come on? Come on, man.

SPEAKER_13: 1:28:34

Um, let me just say, hang on. Hang on.

SPEAKER_18: 1:28:42

I can't believe there are more callers. What's what's wrong with that?

SPEAKER_13: 1:28:44

Yeah, but last time we did this, they were like non-stop. Um, let me just say, I want to pull this story up. I'm so bad at this stuff. Rob's so much better. Okay, here we go. Okay, so we have okay, so uh Canadi Canada, Canadia, Canada euthanizes elderly women with dementia. Uh Sharon Kirky was uh was published by the National Post, uh whatever, reporting on the Ontario dementia patient, died by euthanasia, even though the request was made by the family. Oh a frail woman in her late 80s with dementia received the maid, received maid after a family member brought forward a request for an assisted death. A new report reveals the woman's life was ended after a maid provider deemed the woman had given her final expressed consent to proceed based on her ability to repeat a question and squeeze the provider's hand. This case was featured in the recent report from Ontario MADE. Uh, the case is among a half a dozen, flagged in the in the latest report from the office. So basically, like I am I'm trying to understand what's going on in Canada. Um, like you're you guys have this crazy healthcare system over there that kind of pushes this on people. And like this is when when you talk about John Paul II talking about like the culture of death, like I don't understand how crazy this has gotten over there.

SPEAKER_18: 1:30:21

Yeah, it's it's sad too, because our origin as a country is very Catholic, more Catholic than the United States will ever be from like a an origin standpoint, you know, for sure how staunchly Catholic you know um Canada was at the beginning. Um, and unfortunately, those eastern, those Atlantic provinces are a shell of their former selves, or the more secular atheistic provinces compared to you know Western Canada where where I'm at now. It's and I I'm I feel almost disconnected from it because I'm in I'm in Alberta. I'm originally from Vancouver, so I'm very much like a fake Canadian because I'm not like over there, there's no it's not cold. It's like you know, super hot in the summer and then kind of rainy in the wintertime. And I'm here in like actual Canada. Um, and we're we're like the last bastion of common sense and hope in the whole country. And if any if any province were to be become a state and be welcomed right at home in the US, it would be Alberta. It absolutely would be Alberta. So I try not to pay attention to the politics. I remember that the night, it was the night before I was going to Mexico, Carney got voted in, and I was just I said, man, this is just it's a downward spiral. I mean, I think the UK and uh Australia are a cautionary tale of what Canada is to become, but there are some common sense um premiers that's like would be the equivalent of like a governor um in in Canada that are holding it down pretty good, but it's basically Alberta and Saskatchewan that are the uh the the only two. Uh the the I don't know. I don't know what else there is there is to say. I try to not pay attention too much attention to it because I know like I should be patriotic patriotic, but man, this this country makes it very hard.

SPEAKER_13: 1:31:58

But it just goes to show you like the like where we're at. Like when we're talking, even when we're talking about the even the mass, like this meaning crisis, and how like we view people as expendable at this point, right? Like it's just there you have somebody gets sick, somebody has dementia, and it it's look, I I've I've had my my grandfather had dementia, my grandfather had Alzheimer's, and it was a nightmare dealing with them. Like there were there were times where he'd be watching TV and he'd think that was a window, people looking at him, he'd be like, Why are you looking at me? Why are you looking at me? You know, it was it was a very difficult thing to deal with. Um, but we're now at a point where like families are just like, I don't want to deal with this anymore, just freaking send them off to go get like there it's not even an issue of the government at that point. That's the family just having no will to eat. I mean, man, you think about what the what who whichever family member called that in, like what they're going to face on their judgment, and they and they actually have been convinced that's an act of mercy. But man, I just I don't know, man. We're so dark as a culture at this point.

SPEAKER_18: 1:33:14

I just think again, it's just a it's another branch of what the fatherlessness fatherless generation has produced. It's been it's multi-multiple generations where fathers have abdicated their roles completely, and so when you don't catechize your family, they fall away from the faith. If you don't teach them these values, they're just good, your kids are just going to abandon you, you know, uh when when they're older, and this is the product. You know, growing up Italian, this is kind of this is very alien. Even my wife, like my my brother-in-law, his mother has dementia so bad. Their house is a fortress, it's locked down. But they're not putting that woman in an old folks' home, they're they're doing whatever they can to rally the troops together to take care of that woman. My father-in-law, my God bless his soul. He's got dementia and it started, you know, it's progressing. He's still good, but he's progressing. I'm like, we're never gonna abandon that man. That wasn't the value, those weren't the values instilled in me as a young Italian kid growing up with my grandparents. Probably the same thing for you. There's just this, this I don't know, there's no honor. It's absolutely no honor, and it's and it's it's it's absolutely disgusting. So it's it's up to us, but really like that's yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_13: 1:34:16

I saw something, I saw something. Man, I don't even know if I should say this on YouTube. I saw something in my wife's family, where somebody had a stroke, and they were at a Catholic hospital after this stroke, and they they the hospital starved this person to death. Like they just cut the feeding tube off. And the family was all for it. Oh the family was like, he would never want to live like this. Like we need to, we need to. And the hospital, there was a Catholic hospital, and the Catholic hospital at first was like, we can't do that. And they will, and they convinced the hospital that this person would never want to live like this, you have to do this. And it was just, I was like horrified by what I watched. It was I was just like, holy cow, man, I cannot believe this. Is that and that's not the maid program in Canada, that's just a Catholic hospital on Long Island, and I could not believe it. And I'm and I'm I'm looking at even what's happening in like I'm I'm I'm watching uh grandparents on certain sides of the family, and they're older and they're getting dementia, and I'm watching their children just kind of like wash their hands of them, and it's like I'm like, how do how do man? What happened to our culture where we're just like especially like the the boomer generation, man? Like they they wanted to get their their kids off and married, and they just kind of want to do their thing, and then when their parents go, they're just like, I don't know, I did my hard work, like I just kind of want to go do my cruise. Go, I want to go off to Paris, and I want to go here and I want to go do this, and it's just wild to me to watch this stuff, man. I don't I don't know. I don't like when my I think about like if my parents were sick like that, it's a big burden to bring your parents in your home. But I mean, how do you not do it as a Christian, right? Like, how do you not do that?

SPEAKER_18: 1:36:35

Well, if you don't have an illuminated conscience and an informed conscience by the frequenting of the sacraments and penance, and you're just like poorly catechized, you're just gonna float like a uh a leaf in the wind, and your intellect and your will is gonna be darkened and you're gonna be moved to doing really, really dumb things that benefit you because you're selfish and self-indulgent. I mean, it wasn't like I had a really tumultuous and turbulent relationship uh with uh with my father my whole life. And it was it was on my heart, you know, you know, months back when I reverted. And then also recently I said, if I go and try to make amends or do something, am I honoring my father? Am I disobeying God? You know, I wanted to run away from my last name and I wanted to do that. It's like, no, no, no. I gotta take care of that man and I gotta forgive him. I gotta try to mend a bridge, not to my detriment. If that's a burden that I have to carry, and that's made me a better father. That's drawn me closer to God, you know, because it's like, may my humiliation, may Christ be glorified in my humiliation. That's the the only way you get there is with an informed conscience through the the sacraments and you know, understanding how wretched you are. People just don't give a crap because not doing that. How many how many kids you got now? I've got three, three, and what are the ages? Uh, my eldest is four in like a week and a half. My two-year-old just turned two in September, and then Ambrosio, my little boy, is almost three months.

SPEAKER_13: 1:37:48

Those are the dude. The four is two and four are like my favorite ages, man. Like two, they just start talking, four, they're just so curious about everything. That's such an exciting time.

SPEAKER_18: 1:38:01

It's amazing. It it there's nothing like it, dude. Having two little girls, a little boy, like my even if we have no more, we want to have more, obviously. But it's the greatest thing ever. The greatest thing.

SPEAKER_13: 1:38:10

My wife couldn't have more. Like, we've been trying for a year, we just couldn't, like, she just couldn't get pregnant. I mean, my wife's never been on three. My wife's never been on birth control. I have three, yeah. Is it two two girls and a boy, or two boys? Two girls and two girls and a boy. Like, I've I wanted five kids so bad, man. Like, I really did. I mean, I would have whatever I could get, but like five was just such an awesome number to me. I don't know. I grew up in a house with a bunch of kids, man. I grew up, I have eight siblings, and it was like you go to my mom's house, and it's just no matter what, the my mom's house is like Grand Central Station, so like my parents are are the exception to boomers because they don't have the option, like they just don't. Like my there's always somebody at my mom's house, they don't have the option of like going off and doing their own thing, like there's always kids there with grandkids, and it's just it's just kind of mayhem. And I always kind of wanted that for myself, too. It's just oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_18: 1:39:06

I mean, it that's that my biggest well, my regret. I mean, it's a ton like I anything I could have controlled was not meeting my wife earlier, you know, because we both, you know, she had the first I'm 32. My wife's older than me, so she had our baby still, dude. Yeah, but she had our first kid, she was like 34, 35 in the hospital, and we've had three kids, so it's like you know, it's it's could we have four or five or six? Maybe she's healthy, these pregnancies have been very good, very smooth. Actually, with our little boy, it was uh it was a home birth, and it was the most insane, life-changing moment like I've ever had. It was insane, dude.

SPEAKER_13: 1:39:37

It was so crazy. Once women get up towards 40, it really does get difficult, like for them. So um, yeah, I'm gonna try future Dominican again. I don't know if his camera's working, but we'll bring him on. All right.

SPEAKER_15: 1:39:50

Hello, can you hear me?

SPEAKER_13: 1:39:51

We hear you, brother. What's happening?

SPEAKER_15: 1:39:53

Uh hello, Mr. Bates. I gotta I gotta go quick because like I'm gonna regret. Okay, I'm I'm I gotta go quick. So um I'm still in high school right now. Do you know of any like smaller traditional uh Catholic colleges uh that I would be open to? Because my plan is I maybe want to go to college for like uh two or three years and then just uh join the Dominicans and go off.

SPEAKER_13: 1:40:15

Well, first of all, slow down. Why do you have to go so quick? Because I want to ask you some stuff.

SPEAKER_15: 1:40:21

I gotta go. Because I'm in the car right now. I'm waiting for my dad to come back from Instac.

SPEAKER_13: 1:40:27

Okay, you're in high school. How did you find our show?

SPEAKER_15: 1:40:30

Uh I don't really remember actually. Oh, wait, wait, Wagner. Wagner. I love Wagner. He's the one who got me into the manual and stuff. So you're streaming with him uh one day, maybe a year or two ago, and I've just been watching it ever since.

SPEAKER_13: 1:40:46

And how old are you?

SPEAKER_15: 1:40:48

Can't disclose, maybe. I I'm 15.

SPEAKER_13: 1:40:52

Oh, dude, that is so awesome that you take your faith this seriously at 15, dude. Like that like that I'm really, really, really happy that you're taking your faith this seriously. You're already thinking about joining the Dominicans. That is so awesome, man. Um, what state are you in? Maryland. Maryland, dude. Good for you, man. I you know something? I don't know. I don't know. Um, I heard Dr. Kwaznewski talk about Thomas Aquinas College in California. I don't know if you want to go that far. Mike, do you Mike, do you know any small colleges offhand? Like, because my my kids didn't go to college. I didn't let them. Like my kids are both in trade programs. Um, I have my son doing like a a welding program, my daughter's doing aesthetician school. But dude, I am so happy to hear a 15-year-old is taking their faith this seriously. Yeah, well, don't really uh no sorry, man.

SPEAKER_15: 1:41:48

Sorry. Uh I just kind of want to go to college. I I just want something expensive because my parents kind of uh want to. They don't really under really uh I don't know if they're okay with me joining the Dominicans because they're they're uh still Protestant.

SPEAKER_18: 1:42:03

Uh wow, dude. That's crazy, dude. God bless you, man. Okay, so I I heard Matt Fratt is promoting oh, I can't remember the college or the university. Uh Saint Joseph, Saint Joseph the worker, I think. That's yeah, that that that's right. I think that's more got it to do with the trades. I'm not sure if it's there's actual formation there. You should look into it though, because a part of it is not being crazy expensive, being in tons of debt. So you should look into that if you haven't already, brother.

SPEAKER_13: 1:42:28

Or Christendom College, because I know Michael Hitchborne sent his son to Christendom College. Look into that. But listen, I know your parents are Protestant. I know you kind of sneak in this phone call in.

SPEAKER_15: 1:42:38

They're gonna um I'm I'm cooked if they find the stream. So cooked.

SPEAKER_13: 1:42:41

Don't worry about it, man. We're all gonna be praying for you, man. God bless you and stay and stay stay on the journey you're on, man. You're gonna you're gonna have a fruitful life, brother.

SPEAKER_15: 1:42:51

Thank you. I'm very glad I got to talk to you guys.

SPEAKER_13: 1:42:53

Me too, man. It was nice to meet you. God bless you, bro. Uh um, you well, uh I'm gonna say this before we bring the next guest on because we do have uh Matthew and Don't Tread uh Don't Tread on Chuck. Um, the one thing I've I've found so interesting about our show is um it they're all young men that watch our show, first off, and it's not and they're not white, a lot of them, you know. So it's like when I when I hear the gropers talking about the stuff they're talking about, I kind of get frustrated by it, you know? And I don't know, I don't know how you feel about this, but it especially because there are so few white guys that take their faith seriously. It's like if your daughter meets a guy who's like Spanish or something, but he takes his faith seriously, like what's more important to you that your grandchildren have the faith, or that your daughter marries a white guy? Like, I don't know, I don't know what the answer is on that. I mean, my daughters aren't dating yet, it's just I don't know what like for me, what would be more important is passing the Catholic faith down to my to my grandchildren, you know? It's a tricky question. It's not you know, I get the whole conversation that's going on in the public right now, but there's so few options out there for women right now of guys who take their faith seriously.

SPEAKER_18: 1:44:17

All I'm gonna say is Italians are Lebanese only, because my wife's Lebanese, I'm Italian. That's my opinion. I'm just gonna like leave it simple without getting into the going down the rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_13: 1:44:28

You're you're sticking with that. I mean, I'm like sticking with it, dude. It's like that's it. All right, and then we got Italians aren't white, Italians are just European Mexicans, especially southern Italians. Where's your family from, Anthony? Do you know where um I so I know my dad's side's from Sicily, my mom's side's from Naples, and then and then I have Irish too. Like my mom's mom is is Irish, so it's like I'm I'm like 75 Italian, like 20 Irish, and then I think my my dad's grandmother was German, so I might have some German in there and stuff. It's like it's I'm you're Italian, stop it. You're not I am Italian, but I'm I am a mutt, like I do have a mixture in there, but I it's just something I've been thinking about because like I'm I I don't know, like when I go to my Latin mass parish, it's like there's not a lot of white guys there, it's like it's all it's all like Spanish guys and Latino guys and something. I'm like, oh man, it's not that arranged marriage.

SPEAKER_18: 1:45:35

We know I've I know a lot of uh uh uh young couples with kids around our age that are very pious. It's like that's that's just what we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_13: 1:45:44

I kind of feel like this, Bobby, and I'm not I like I haven't made a decision on this yet. It's just I think it's perfectly acceptable to want your kids to look like you, but if that's your top priority, you've lost the plot. Like, I I don't know, man. It's a it's a question I gotta wrestle with, and we'll see.

SPEAKER_18: 1:45:55

You know, it's definitely it's it's one of those questions you got to wrestle with, no doubt.

SPEAKER_13: 1:45:59

Yeah, all right, Matthew, what's happening, bro? How's it going, brothers? Oh, Mathieu, are you French Canadian? Absolutely, my friend. Of course you are. What's up, Matthew?

SPEAKER_02: 1:46:08

I mean, yeah, you were talking about Canada. I mean, just like after the Second Vatican Council, like that's when really the the silent revolution, tranquil, they call it in French, happened, and you know, the church started, you know, losing its grasp on Quebec society. And you just it just like the society is just not what it used to be. I mean, it used to be like these European, great-looking churches everywhere, and now it's just like a desolate wasteland of Catholicism. It's like, what is going on here? How old are you? I'm 19, brother.

SPEAKER_13: 1:46:38

19. So, okay, so do you have any kind of a community of other Catholics who take their faith seriously at your age?

SPEAKER_02: 1:46:44

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, I mean, I go to uh in Ottawa and to St. Clement's. We have a we have a very good parish community there. I mean, it's a great, a fantastic community. Okay, that's so. I mean, we go like after mass, we always go out to eat. It's it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_13: 1:46:58

Like, yeah, Canada is such a strange thing to me because it is like Catholic Canada. Like, it was there was during World War II, the Pope was going to escape to Canada because it was so Catholic, and he was worried about the Nazis coming into Italy and stuff. And it's like man, you you think about the loss of what uh what they've gone through over the past 75 years and how they just man, it's just devastating. You you you just it it's it's one of those things where it's the same thing as Europe, where because it was formerly Christendom, its fall away from the faith is so much more devastating than even in America. Because in America, you still kind of have a Christian culture, it's not Catholic by any means, but like Jesus is able to be spoken about, and you still have this very Christian culture, and nobody thinks you're weird if you go to church and stuff. But when you hear the stories out of Europe and Canada, it's just so crazy to me that these formerly Catholic countries have just abandoned their faith the way they have.

SPEAKER_02: 1:48:02

Yeah, and I mean Peter Kay said on the on the podcast of Matt Fratt, I watched the whole like three hours, and it was like the corruption of the best is the worst. That's exactly what it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_13: 1:48:11

What do you think of Peugeot? Do you like Peugeot?

SPEAKER_02: 1:48:15

I mean, I haven't really looked at much as uh as at Jonathan Peugeot's stuff. I mean, I mean, I've heard that you know, Rob Hayes' voice. That's a couple of times on I've seen it a couple of times on Jordan Peterson, but like honestly, I haven't, you know, like I mean, honestly, like most of us, like like even like my family's Catholic roots were just completely eviscerated. Like my my grandmother was the only really biased one. And it's like, I don't blame these people for going to orthodoxy or going to Satic Evakantism or the SSPX, which is so big there. I don't blame them whatsoever. What uh what sparked your faith back up if your family's biased? Uh well, I I go to university and some group of uh Catholic missionaries came up to me, and it took me like a year to discern, and then I had to stop coping. I know I mean this is the truth. I had to join. It is what it is.

SPEAKER_18: 1:49:09

Well, you're your dude. Sorry, sorry, I was just gonna say, Mike. Then we could we're gonna we're repaving the path forward for our families. So that's that that's it. That's I mean, that's that that's part of my motivation as well for practicing as hard as I do, is not just because I love God, but also because that's the future. Otherwise, like Canada, I mean, the whole all of the West is just gonna go to hell in a handbasket. If the men in particular don't take it, don't take it seriously. I mean, that's just that's what it comes down to.

SPEAKER_02: 1:49:36

Yeah, I mean, we've watched, you know, as the faith has collapsed, it's like the dominion of Satan has been like enthroned all over the West. And it's like, what's going on here? I mean, this is not okay. Like, we gotta stop this. And I mean, there's a lot of hope in our community because it's growing slowly but surely. I mean, it's growing as like our our parish was packed on Sundays, it's a decently big parish. I mean, the story of how they kept the Latin mass, like they've been a Latin mass even like right after the council, like they kept it through like the St. Clements parish group, they've kept it for like 50 years after the council. Yeah. Before they got before they got taken over by the S FSSP. But yeah, I mean, it's a it is a some crazy stories, man.

SPEAKER_13: 1:50:16

You you guys, you guys, when you call in and I see all you young guys calling in, how'd you find our show?

SPEAKER_02: 1:50:21

Um honestly, I I mean, I just it popped up on my feed, and like I forget what what it was, but I was kind of like, these guys are off the rails. And then a couple weeks later, a couple weeks later, I see something in the news, and I'm like, these guys were totally right about this. I'm like, yeah, I gotta listen to these guys again, and then you know, I just got hooked onto the show.

SPEAKER_13: 1:50:40

Uh we're very happy to have you, Matthew. Uh that thank you for joining us, man. It was nice to meet you. Keep the face to you. You gotta wake up, you're 19, you gotta, you gotta, you got a good start on your life. Meet meet a nice girl and get a and just always keep it always keep it close to you. It's the most important thing you'll ever have in your life. God bless you, guys. Nice meeting you. Um, I dude, I love that it's all young guys that call in, man. It's like it's such an awesome thing to me. Um, all right, don't tread on Chuck. What's happening, bro?

SPEAKER_01: 1:51:09

Hey Anthony, Mike, thanks for having me, guys. Uh, I think this is a little more directed to Anthony because I know you have some uh difficult family stuff that we hear you go on and on about, but I've got little kids and I'm really struggling with how to handle all the invalid marriages around. This is a huge problem, I'm sure you guys know. But as I'm as my kids get old enough to learn about the sacrament of marriage, I'm worried about, you know, even my wife's parents might even have an invalid marriage, you know. So I don't really know what's the best way to handle this. You know, I I know it's a big deal to just say, like, hey, uh I don't want you guys displaying that you're in a romantic relationship while it's not a valid marriage in front of the kids. So I'm just curious how you handle this in your own life. If if you have this scenario going on, I don't know if you do.

SPEAKER_13: 1:52:14

I I'll tell you this. Um, one of the ways I've talked to my kids about this is kind of showing the dysfunction of the relationship because we have a lot of like family members that don't take their faith seriously. I have family members that are living out of wedlock, I have family members that are, you know, kind of and their lives are very chaotic. Um, you know, um, and I've used that as a way to show my children how important the sacrament of marriage is. And it's it's it's like, okay, you see the people who don't take God seriously in their lives, and you see how chaotic their lives are. This is the consequence of not actually having a life grounded in God and the sacraments. Because I even have family members who um they're like they're cradle Catholics, but they're no longer going to church or anything like that, and they're raising their kids without God, and you kind of see the way their kids are handling life, and it's just kind of chaotic. So, I mean, how old are your kids? They're how little?

SPEAKER_01: 1:53:24

Uh, my boys are five and my daughter's three. I have twin boys and a three-year-old daughter.

SPEAKER_13: 1:53:30

Yeah, I mean, look, you're not gonna have to have those deep conversations yet, but as they get into their teen years, like the thing is, I was always terrified of having teenagers because I was a crazy teenager and I got into a lot of trouble. But what you'll find is, especially with your boys, that as they get older, they're actually smart enough to start understanding deeper concepts, and you can have conversations with your boys that maybe your dad never had with you. Um, and it's kind of an exciting time when they start hitting 13 and 14, and you can start talking to them about typology, and you can start talking to them about how the reason marriage is a sacrament and that it's indissoluble is the same reason why when when a priest consecrates the host, you can't unconsecrate it. Once that host becomes Jesus Christ, it can't be undone. And it's the same thing with marriage. Marriage, once a marriage is consummated, you cannot it is a consummated marriage and it cannot be undone. And when when you start to see the those invalid marriages and kind of the chaotic relationships, kind of use that as the the reason we don't go that route.

SPEAKER_01: 1:54:41

I think uh I get all that, but I think really what I struggle with is extremely practical things. Like, for instance, I have a cousin that was divorced, and my kids knew the husband, and now my cousin has a boyfriend, and we're about to move back to proximity with that cousin, and these are the kind of things I have a difficulty with. Like, what what kind of lines do you draw with things like this? You know, like everyone can the boyfriend come over for Thanksgiving? I don't really know if what if what if that means my cousin doesn't come over?

SPEAKER_13: 1:55:22

So yeah, no, you you do let them come over. You just there's line the line would be like if they're staying over the house, like they can't stay in the same bedroom, right? Right, you know what I mean? But like you have to teach your children to love everybody and not look upon everybody with judgment because the last thing you want to do is just start pointing the finger at people around you, and and then you kind of cut off any avenue to ever have a conversation with them for grace. And it's uh and your kids will be smart, man. Your kids are gonna you're they're going to see because look, if they're divorced and they're getting involved in another relationship, I'm telling you that relationship's going to be chaotic. That's kind of the way you're going to be able to teach your children about it. Like, I mean, I don't know, Mike. Do you have a do you have different advice on that?

SPEAKER_18: 1:56:06

Yeah, I mean, I think I think your your your your thoughts and your energy should be probably allocated somewhere else, and not attending too much focus and energy on this right now with your kids being so young. It just, I mean, everything you said, Anthony, is perfect. It's opportunities, a little a learning lesson, an opportunity for for for learning and teaching and further catechizing your children. But I don't know, these things never really came to my mind, uh, to to be completely honest.

SPEAKER_13: 1:56:28

No, and like as situations come up, you might have to have deep conversations. I mean, that's just but look forward to those deep conversations, like you should look forward to those deep conversations because that is a chance to like deepen your children's faith in those situations. And it's I mean, my kids are smart, man, and as they get older, they're going to see the chaos in the in those situations. But yeah, I would say the line is like you can't you can't invite them for Thanksgiving, love them. That's your cousin. Like, it's not your job to like regulate other people's lives like that. Um, but I would say like a line would be like you can't permit fornication in your presence, you know. So if they're staying at your house, it's like you guys aren't married, you're not staying in a room together, but you know, this is your life. I'm not here to judge you. It's just there's lines in my house that my children are never going to see.

SPEAKER_01: 1:57:21

Yeah, I will say, just uh as we finish this conversation, I definitely do think, you know, I converted five years ago and I was basically a trad from the get-go. This is a big problem in the trad movement because I think there is um a section of the trad movement that would say, like, don't let your cousin come over with her new boyfriend, like cut that person out of your life. And I think I I would I might have thought that in 2020 or 2021, but I think that is a big issue um that needs to be addressed. And I do see that now, that that is kind of like the rad trad tendency.

SPEAKER_18: 1:58:06

I don't know. I've never seen anything like that from the trads personally at all. Um, at least in the small time length of time I've been involved in traditional Catholicism. Um, I think you know, making prudential judgments like Anthony said about them not sleeping in the same room together, or if there is a marriage of two laps Catholics that you're not going to that wedding. I mean, these things are just uh I think these are common sense items, but like to cut them off and not bring them into your house, you know, granted they're not doing anything ludicrous or whatever inside your home. I think, I mean, that that's a different story. I mean, it is also an opportunity to you know bring the light of Christ to them in some way, either by showing them the fruits of your household, which does work, dude. I've seen it in my own family, man. A bunch of labs Catholics, God bless them. And then my mom's having different conversations with me, my brother's having different conversations with me because they just see the fruit that has been that is you know been produced in my household because of the grace of God and how we've you know uh practiced our faith. So I mean, be prudent. I think uh yeah, absolutely. Anthony's advice was perfect.

SPEAKER_13: 1:59:07

Yeah, thanks. All right, it was it was nice meeting you, brother. Um, okay, we got David up next. What's happening, David?

SPEAKER_21: 1:59:14

So can you guys hear me? Yeah, okay. So I have a quick question here. All right, so my my parents are both baptized Catholics, and and they um only recently, like a couple years ago, they got um married uh sacramentally, but when they when I was born, they were only married civilly. Would I be considered a bastard? No.

SPEAKER_13: 1:59:40

No. No, no, a bastard would mean your father doesn't claim you. Like, like you, like, even so, like, even um uh Pope Alexander VI, like he had bastard children, but once he claimed them, they were no longer bastards, and he was not married even, you know, like you you can legitimize your children even if you're never married like your bastard children are just like that i don't i don't know i don't even know how that would even function in today's day and age uh like i think if the father recognizes the child as his own especially if you have your father's last name you're not a bastard okay yeah i just wanted to know because like my parents like only to like um i would say like six years ago they got married sacramentally they were only married civilly so yeah that would imply mike's first two children are bastards right mike yeah that would imply i definitely claim my children yeah that's definitely not an issue dude you are you're you are your dad's son you're not a bastard so what would be the difference between a natural marriage and a sacramental marathon well the church recognizes natural marriages um we would just because they're not sacramental they're not going to like that is a that is an odd thing like the church recognizes like civil marriage right so even if you don't get married sacramentally in the church like if you have if you have uh let's say you're not catholic and you get married civilly um and then you get divorced and then you have a conversion and become catholic you still need an annulment you still need the church to to to put put uh uh the decree of annulment on that first marriage even though it was a civil marriage and you weren't even Catholic at the time so it's like the church recognizes civil marriage um the the difference is in a sacramental marriage a sacramental marriage earns you grace to heaven okay thank you that's all I wanted to know though you're you're not a bastard david you're good don't worry brother um yeah I'm I mean I'm not like an expert on this stuff but like that I mean I I I can't imagine I was wrong on that right no I don't think it doesn't sound like you were I mean I mean otherwise there are a lot of bastards out there what's up David is this same david did I did I did I bring this up okay sorry uh this is yeah Alex Pope Alexander had like seven kids and he um he I don't think he I don't think he recognized all of them though like he he recognized like Cesare and and Juan and but I don't think he recognized all seven yeah like to to recognize your I think that's all that a bastard means right like you're you're just um I always thought of it as like you having uh a a child out of wedlock not being married like you're a bastard because you're not like in in under the the sort of I guess the protect not protection but the the container of marriage but maybe I got that completely wrong. Yeah well I think at like at one at one point that might have been the case but I think if I think if your kid even if you're not married and your kid has your last name like a bastard is a child with no father. I think that's the classic definition of the term.

SPEAKER_18: 2:03:08

I think you're right I think I I think you're right.

SPEAKER_13: 2:03:11

I think just think there's a whole bunch of us out here with daddy issues and think we're bastards because we hate our dads the definition has been changed it's been watered down yeah I think like a bastard is somebody without a dad like a like like there's a lot of bastards in certain communities because the fathers take off and you know it's like but I'm bastards playing all right we got Jim uh how long you got till Mike I don't want to keep you on all night.

SPEAKER_18: 2:03:41

No I'm I'm good I probably have to just like take a piss a little bit but otherwise I'm good.

SPEAKER_13: 2:03:45

Me too I don't know how much longer I'm making it either what's up Jim yeah what's up guys how are you going on good man cool cool um and I chatted you what were you talking about earlier your tweet about um the idea of wait you the idea of what uh Gustin talking about like religion as a concept oh that's right oh all right so you're Jim Pine yeah yeah uh um okay so um all right so uh Dinesh D'Souza uh let me bring up Dinesh de Sousa's tweet uh let me see um let me bring up Dinesh's tweet okay so okay so okay here we go so Dinesh de Sousa said Jesus was a Jew not a Christian he didn't practice Christianity he attended synagogue and kept the Sabbath he taught out of the Hebrew scriptures which were the only ones he knew he claimed to be the fulfillment not the repudiation of the Hebrew scriptures and prophets so I said modern people don't really get the idea of having a religion is actually a Christian concept it was developed by Augustine saying Jesus was a Jew as it's understood today is absurd. What we understand as a Jew like somebody have like a Muslim having the Muslim religion this is an idea that's developed by Augustine because when he's trying to work out the difference in the religious and the secular the Jews were a people they weren't a religion right so Jesus is a descendant of David he yes he does follow the Hebrew scriptures and all that but he's not it's not like he believes Judaism that's not what it is he's he they like the Jews back then are just a people and that's always how all like even when you understand paganism like it wasn't their religion there were it they were just pagans and they were a people and they did these ceremonies but the idea that like somebody somebody practices a certain faith is is of a very um like the the period of time would be would be like the dark ages when that when that starts to get developed like we live today in such Christian waters that so many of the concepts we understand are just Christian concepts but the Jews would never have seen themselves as like the people of the Jews would never have seen themselves like apart from the things they did their rituals and it wouldn't have been like this idea now where you have like uh Jews who don't actually believe the religion and stuff they're still Jews it's not where Catholics like if you're a fallen away Catholic you're not really a Catholic right yeah but a Jew like a secular Jew who doesn't believe anything about the the Hebrew Bible they're still a Jew it's a it's a very different thing from Christians and like having this conversion experience and now I believe this thing and I have this religion it's a it's a Christian concept that never existed before Christianity.

SPEAKER_10: 2:07:00

I don't know if that makes sense but sort of yeah I've just like been you know I've seen clips of Nick talking about like the JQ like people talk about is it an ethnicity or like just a religion or all that stuff so that kind of makes sense from that standpoint.

SPEAKER_13: 2:07:16

Yeah it is like the the Jews are a very interesting group because they're the most unique right like there's nothing like it because they are an ethnicity but there are it's also like a religion we should do a show on Romans 9 10 and 11 is what we should do because in Romans 9 10 and 11 Paul talks about all Israel will be saved. Now is he talking about spiritual Israel or ethnic Israel and it's like this is like something that like theologians have been wrestling with it's like all right well Paul is saying all Israel will be saved. Is he talking about spiritual Israel which would be us because we're the children of the promise or is he talking about ethnic Israel and he's actually talking about ethnic Israel in Romans 9 10 and 11 and ethnic Israel to the point where like the the Israelites are 12 tribes right but after the temple the first temple is destroyed the 10 northern tribes break off and what you call Jews today are only the southern two tribes the tribe of Judah and the tribe of Benjamin but those 10 northern tribes leave you have the Samaritans like Jesus goes to the Samaritans right like all the time like Jesus is always going to the Samaritans and you have to understand what Samaritans are they're heretics. They have the Pentateuch right they have all the the the the five books of Moses they don't have any of the prophets and then they mix in idol worship so Jesus keeps going to them and the Jews are scandalized by this they're like why are you going to the Samaritans? And Jesus is like I've come to call the lost children of Israel and Jesus is going out to get those 10 northern tribes now the 10 northern tribes are so scattered amongst the nations that the only way God can actually save all 12 tribes is by converting the gentiles because they're so gentilized at that point that they're gentiles. So the way the new covenant works is like God fulfills Romans 9 10 and 11 and all Israel is saved he's not talking about every single individual Jew. He's just saying Jews from all 12 tribes he's preserved a remnant in every one of those tribes and when the new covenant goes out he he brings them into the new covenant and all 12 tribes are then saved. So it's to say a Jew like Jesus was a Jew yeah he like he was a descendant of David but like religion the way we understand like rabbinic Judaism is so different from the Judaism that exists in Christ's time when they have a temple and sacrifices like rabbinic Judaism is what's invented it's Phariseeism essentially that gets invented after the destruction of the temple in 70 AD Phariseeism Jesus is going after the Pharisees all the time those are the people that exist today like that the people that Jesus is fighting with and and condemning throughout the New Testament that's the Judaism that exists today. So to say Jesus is a Jew is kind of a crazy thing to say it's not it's not right rooted in reality. Yeah so so you're gonna take the 7000 post if they would I would I would have to consider it I could use the seven grand I mean that's a lot of money those boat motors aren't getting any cheaper you know um maybe we will do a show on Romans 9 10 and 11 one day because it's it's one of the most amazing like uh it's one of the hardest epistles to understand other than um other than Hebrews like Hebrews is bonkers if you if you don't understand the Jewish like roots of sacrifice and stuff but Romans 9 10 and 11 is a is a really good one so maybe we'll do that one I'll have to study it again because that it's been years since I did but um thank you Jim love you brother you I just want to have one last shout out to uh Chris from Crash Cannon he uh recommended the same microphone to me he did for religious hyping Catholic engineer so you know I just wanted to back up for that you know you want to be a new girl dude you're good um yeah that's it's like throughout the old testament God is promising to unite the 12 tribes of Israel right like it's like one of the promises. He's like oh we're gonna unite the 12 tribes of Israel so everybody you'll see Protestants today being like well where are the lost tribes where are the lost tribes well the lost tribes were dispersed amongst the nations so when the new covenant goes out and Paul starts like preaching to in Greece and Thessalonica and Ephesus and all these different places the remnant of Israelites is in those nations and they wind up converting and that's how God gathers the 12 nations together.

SPEAKER_18: 2:11:58

The thing is the people don't most normies that want to shill for Israel and the Zionists don't think about it beyond uh um these like epithets that mean nothing that essentially just point toward them shilling for Israel. That's like one of those just classical things that even me with relatively not as much knowledge as you on this stuff can say like yeah that's total BS. Like I know what you're trying to say but it's not the same thing.

SPEAKER_13: 2:12:22

It's just so silly and the thing is like the Jews play a very significant part in the story of Christianity even today and they will in the apocalypse as well and there's going to be like the the the Antichrist is going to be the Jewish messiah and they're going to persecute the Christians and then at the end of time there will be a reunification of of the the the brothers it's going to be like Joseph reuniting with his brothers who sold him into slavery his brother Judah who sold him into slavery for 20 pieces of silver which is literally a typological identical typological fulfillment of Christ being sold by Judas for 30 pieces of silver right and the the like we get the 12 tribes of Israel from Israel's 12 sons and the youngest is Joseph who gets sold into slavery and then later on unites his his other 11 brothers who are like about going through a famine and they're going to die unless he saves them you know but that unification will happen again it's just that's how the story is going to play out.

SPEAKER_18: 2:13:34

Man I'm just over here trying to be a good Catholic bro that's all this this whole like JQ talk that people are into online I'm like man this is like it's so exhausting what you're saying all this stuff I mean this actually has like historical and and well it's the logical like I I like theological relevance but I'm like man this whole conversation so exhausting I never talk about it from uh I never talk about it from a position of there they run the banks they run you know like I don't care about that stuff I care about the story of Christianity of course very much like I care about how the story plays out and there is enmity between the people of the old covenant and the people of the new covenant through and it's it's every story in the old testament if you read it you'll find that the the birthright is supposed to go to the eldest son and something happens where it winds up going to the secondborn every time like Israel is God's firstborn son but Christ is the one who gets the promise right it's like there's there's the the promise goes to the gentiles when Israel should have gotten it right so but when you look at Jacob and Esau um Esau is the firstborn and he's talking with his brother Jacob and he trades his birthright for a bowl of stew and then Jacob's mother then goes to to uh the father and says dresses Jacob up with a hairy arm to make him look like Isau and then brings brings him to the father and the father touches the arm and thinks it's Isao and he winds up giving the birthright to Jacob.

SPEAKER_13: 2:15:14

Like this is actual typology for our lady as well like we go and we bring our stuff to our lady and she then presents it to the father for us.

SPEAKER_18: 2:15:24

Like this is a very important typological story to understand our lady's role as well you know yeah I didn't get uh red pilled on that until I read Tim Staples' book Behold Your Mother and then when I read that and all of what you just said and then some I dude I would sit there reading a chapter at a time putting it down and just having like galaxy brain just mind utterly blown at all this stuff and it's it's it's I don't know it's it's I don't this is why I I appreciate it I'm so I marvel at like the level of intelligence that the guys like Josh Charles have to just talk about this like endlessly I'm like where do you stuff it in that big head man like especially I mean if you want a good book on the typology of our lady St.

SPEAKER_13: 2:16:06

Alphonsus Ligori's The Glories of Mary is phenomenal. That's one I still have to get that is that book is phenomenal like he goes through some of the typology of our lady that is unbelievable. And then um uh brand petri's great on her too brand petri I forgot what book um but yeah like I like every woman in scripture in the old testament is in some way like giving you a glimpse into the life of our lady you know I mean we will go to the one of of of uh Solomon's mother the uh Bathsheba because he's got 700 concubines so his mother is the queen and that like that's how the Divinic kingdom works where you have the queen mother right and that's our lady prefigured but there's so many of those sort like every single woman in the Bible even um who's the woman who um like there's one that prefigures our lady crushing the serpent's head where she like she she throws a rock at someone's head and I don't know they're all they're all in there the book of Esther all of them they all prefigure her so all right boys I think we're gonna wrap this one up it's 1030. Mike I always love hanging with you man likewise brother it's always a pleasure man let's uh definitely do it again it's a Friday night and uh and we had a good time tonight so uh all you young guys that called in man we love you guys thank you guys for supporting our show uh and hanging with us on a Friday night this show is a little bit all over the place but I think we all had a good time um so if you guys can go go check out Mike's YouTube channel Mike's trying to grow that YouTube channel and it's had some really good growth so just look up Mike Pantile on uh YouTube and you will come across Mike's channel uh he does a lot of good stuff on there and what's what's the other one Instagram you're on right yeah Instagram x get youtube and yeah Mike Pantile find me there and then stay tuned because I got uh might have a a weekly show coming up here guys so stay tuned for that as well that'll probably be on YouTube in addition to the network Mike's gonna sell out he's gonna go mainstream he's joining Catholic Inc. I'm just telling you guys I got the call boys Mike that was how quiet I was during the JQ conversation I'm just kidding you are you are the guy they're picking to replace voice of reason all right guys we will see you guys on Tuesday night thank you for joining us we will see you guys next time love you bro see