Avoiding Babylon

The Bizarre Civil War Splitting the Catholic Church (Full LOCALS Version)

Subscriber Episode • • Avoiding Babylon Crew

Share episode

This episode is only available to subscribers.

Avoiding Babylon +

Access to the FULL show on audio!

Want to reach out to us? Want to leave a comment or review? Want to give us a suggestion or berate Anthony? Send us a text by clicking this link!

A handful of words and a few seconds of video shouldn’t be able to shake trust—yet here we are. We unpack why a brief comment on the death penalty and a highly produced blessing moment set off a firestorm across Catholic Twitter, YouTube, and parish group chats. This isn’t a rage fest; it’s a guided tour through the history and logic behind the backlash: what the “seamless garment” originally aimed to do, how John Paul II and Benedict pushed back, and why many hear today’s language as a flattening of moral hierarchies that once felt solid.

We talk honestly about how converts often rush to defend the papacy because they ran from chaos into authority, while cradle Catholics carry long memories of terms used to launder bad politics into church talk. Then we stack sources: Catechism of Trent, Pius XII, and the ordinary universal magisterium on capital punishment, contrasted with recent phrases like “inadmissible” and the way those phrases play in headlines. The question beneath the noise is simple and serious: can teaching seem to change without convincing ordinary people that the Church was wrong for centuries?

There’s also the reality of media physics. Encyclicals move scholars; clips move the crowd. Optics aren’t superficial when images catechize faster than words. So we ask leaders to choose symbols that speak clearly of worship and charity, and we ask the rest of us to debate without slurs, to hear motives before assigning them, and to keep doctrine’s hierarchy intact while we argue. Along the way we press into liturgy and devotion—how reverence shapes behavior, why “trad vs. normie” is a false binary, and where unity can grow without pretending disagreements aren’t real.

If you value clear thinking, good faith debate, and a Church that communicates the moral law without confusion, this one’s worth your time. Listen, share it with a friend who disagrees with you, and tell us: what would rebuild your trust—clearer teaching, different optics, or both? And if this helped, subscribe, leave a review, and join the conversation.

Take advantage of Recusant Cellar's "Christ the King" sale by heading over to https://recusantcellars.com/ and using code "BASED" for 20% off at checkout!

********************************************************

Please subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKsxnv80ByFV4OGvt_kImjQ?sub_confirmation=1

https://www.avoidingbabylon.com

Merchandise: https://avoiding-babylon-shop.fourthwall.com

Locals Community: https://avoidingbabylon.locals.com

Full Premium/Locals Shows on Audio Podcast: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1987412/subscribe

RSS Feed for Podcast Apps: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1987412.rss

Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/AvoidingBabylon

SPEAKER_07:

Thank you very much, Holy Father and the Vatican, for inviting me here to this very important event. I say important event because, as you've just heard, together we can do it. Together we can accomplish our goal. The Catholic Church has 1.4 billion members. That power. And for that to be loved in our movement.

SPEAKER_06:

We could retake both Constantinople and Jerusalem in a single afternoon.

SPEAKER_03:

He's not wrong. Um, okay, it's happy. We gotta read what you mean.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. That was to me, he's like, is this all right? Doesn't make fun of anyone. I'm like, yeah, you'll do.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, I have to I don't know if it's my internet or yours. Um what? Uh you're jumpy to me. Now you're now you're better, I think. No, you're frozen. I don't know. I hear you fine, but you're you're jumpy on the screen. Is it just me just for me, guys? Can you guys see Rob fine?

SPEAKER_04:

Is everything we are we we do have a storm right now, so that could be it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, you sound a little like underwater a little bit, but um uh yeah. That's just because I wish our religion was actually that big still. Rob's fine. Okay, so it's just but you guys see me fine and I'm moving fine and everything's fine. You you see me and hear me fine.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh yeah, yeah, I see and hear you fine.

SPEAKER_03:

All right, all right, that's all it matters. All right, you're fine now. Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

It might just be your computer being slow or something.

SPEAKER_03:

That's what I mean. I didn't I couldn't tell if it was just like like lagging a bit. Um man, the uh I I I hate that this is what's in the news, man. Like I hate that this like I could not figure out what um like I got on Twitter this okay. Let's back up a little bit. When Leo dropped the wacky comment, right? Like when it first happened, like we had that conversation about what it was and stuff, but then the next day I had so much fun on Twitter, like it felt like old times, it was like this nostalgia from 2018. Um getting the band back together, and it felt like Trad Inc was so back, everybody was mad, and it was like I had so much fun yesterday. Um, even watching Marshall's show, like I haven't I haven't really watched much Taylor lately, you know, I just was so busy and got so much going on. And watching his show, it was like if it had like that nostalgic feeling, like like Taylor was he's like, you know, man, I'm just I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

It was it was it was yes, I do enjoy this way too much.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't actually enjoy that the Pope said it, it was it was nostalgic, it was nostalgic, nostalgic, that's all it was. Like it had like that that feeling of like 2018, like we're all we're all mad about the same thing, you know.

SPEAKER_04:

But it also then so then I wake up today and I'm reading everything, and I see the Pope's planers come back, and I'm like, I don't know if I could do this again, like I just don't know especially after a few months of like kind of you know making nice with all of them again, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Like relative peace, you know. It was like it was just so like I wake up this morning and I just start seeing the Pope's planning, and I'm just like, oh no, I don't think I could do this again. Like, I just don't know if I have it in me to go through this again. Um, and it was it was funny because yesterday, like the whole lead up was funny because like we had the show talking about trading and the mad trads, and then all of a sudden this thing happens, and like it was just kind of like almost like a storyline to it where we were starting to talk about it, and then this thing happened, and then it it had a story dynamic to it where it just all broke out and everything was fun. And I had a lot of fun yesterday on Twitter, and then waking up and seeing the Pope Spleeners today, I'm just like, okay, there I don't like the term Pope Spleener. I I they're just gaslighting and liars, they're just gaslighting, right? So they're the thing is I also don't want to um like I want to I want to see if we can present what it is because it's not just this papal animosity. Um, I starting to think Anthony's some kind of chaos, and I am a chaos, I like to cause chaos and then bring everybody together. It's a gift I have. Um, no, but I even spoke to I spoke to Wagner. Um I spoke to Wagner today. I also spoke with uh Keith Nestor today. Um like there's gotta be a way for these conversations to happen where because you you like that guy, Shag Bark, like he that writer.

SPEAKER_04:

And like he's interesting.

SPEAKER_03:

He's interesting, but he put out a post about um the the the reactionary um what what did he say, man? He he said something like um the hot take papal commentary. Uh there was just too much money in it, and these people just couldn't resist, like just putting it ironic for someone who makes money solely off of writing and Twitter, and hot takes, like that's his sole income, right?

SPEAKER_04:

So it's like yeah, exactly right. The his hot takes lighting to liking to eat garbage, right?

SPEAKER_03:

So it was a caricature that he had in his head of Trads, and I I want to try to explain, especially to Pope Splainers, something because a lot of these guys are converts and they converted under Francis, and they don't really understand the history specifically of what Leo said and why it had so much, it just it was like explosive what he did, because they may have heard the term seamless garment. But if you were a Catholic during John Paul II's papacy and uh Benedict's papacy, there were bad actors that were in the only ones using the term at that point were bad actors, were bad actors. This term seamless garment. Okay, now this garment, this seamless garment idea is what it sought to do was put moral questions like uh the church's treatment of immigrants and um and the death penalty on the same level of morality as abortion, and they were doing this not because it would it was it was other it was anything, right? It was uh character core ever anything that they could throw in as a life issue, and it was meant government welfare, you know, meant to support government welfare vehicle for prelates and clerics to support leftist politicians. That's all it is. So it's like a way to foment revolution in your country because you had under John Paul II, John Paul II was so clear on the abortion issue that you actually, as a Catholic, it was like well known you could not vote Democrat as a faithful Catholic because of the life issue. It was like like for all John Paul II's faults and the things that people criticize him for, he was a stalwart defender of life. He really was. Now he does start the process of changing the teaching on the death penalty, right?

SPEAKER_04:

But never at any point does he put it on the same level as abortion, nor does he ever say it's morally inadmissible or unacceptable or anything like that.

SPEAKER_03:

John Paul II is talking about like in the modern world, we have better prison systems, and that you know, it's like the he and he had seen two totalitarian states misuse the death penalty, yes, and and and look, the the thing is, I always have said the best argument against the death penalty is when like it would be a corrupt government um convicting an innocent man, right? Like that is the only like legitimate argument against it, uh where an abuse of power could put someone to death who didn't who shouldn't have been put to death, which is even then that's right, that's just pro a prudential matter, yeah. Right, but it's still like the best philosophical argument against it, in my opinion, right? But to put the the murder of an innocent child, a sin that cries out to heaven, on the same level of moral culpability as the just punishment of a murderer, rapist, like something like that, it's just preposterous, right? But the but it the the problem is that the the situation was loaded because under John Paul II and Benedict, both of those popes had our back against the seamless argument, the seamless garment argument. So a lot of these Catholics, when they heard Leo say that, there's all of this all of this comes with it.

SPEAKER_02:

So these are people who live those two pontificates. This is a these are post-conciliar popes, these aren't even pre-conciliar popes.

SPEAKER_04:

And you you have to under people have to understand who created the term. The term was created by Cardinal Bernadine out of Chicago, who was a well, one, he was the mentor to a certain Cardinal Theodore McGarrick, and he was the protege of Cardinal Spellman. Now we all know who McCarrick is, right? The most notorious sex abuser in probably the history of the Catholic Church. Spellman is widely believed to be one of the four cardinals who Belad said was a communist infiltrator, and Bernadine himself is accused of raping an eight-year-old girl on an altar. Yeah, so these are the people who who came up with that term and used it against these are legit villains, villains that came up with this, right?

SPEAKER_03:

And not the term the the the well, the term in the idea, of course. The term, the idea, all of it, and we had two popes who were against this stuff, okay? And the whole purpose of it was just so that they could support liberal politicians. Exactly what Supic was doing.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, Supich giving Dick Durbin this award was specifically the protege of McCarrick and hence a protege of Chicago, and his excuse was going to be well, we're gonna use the seamless garment idea here.

SPEAKER_03:

You can go and get but the idea is look, maybe Catholic Cardinals should not be giving awards to any politician because I have no more support for Republican politicians than I do for Democrats at this point. Like the so I'm look, I'm watching this conversation, and yesterday I see who's that kid Catholic Christian that we went at it with.

SPEAKER_04:

He does that channel Eric McCabe. Eric McCabe. I guess he went after Marshall again.

SPEAKER_03:

He went after Marshall, right? And it was such slop. Uh the comment would be less explosive if it wasn't in the context of justifying the giving of an award to a rabbit, but that's a that's the point, right? Like that's the whole point of it. So Eric McCabe does the video on Marshall yesterday, and I'm like, all right, I'm I'm going to try and listen. And he's he's going through Evangelium Vitae, John Paul II's uh, you know, the gospel of life, and he's trying to put he's pushing the seamless garment, Eric McCabe. And then when Taylor is talking about the death penalty, he's like, and he's got his neocon politics, he's just a neo eric. Listen to me, this is not about politics. No, it has nothing to do with politics. For me, when I came in the church, when I like reverted to my faith, a big part of the reason I reverted to the faith is because of the church's teaching on birth control. Seeing the church's teaching on birth control and that it didn't cave to the pressure, it was like it proved infallibility to me. It was like this thing where I was like, holy cow, like the church really cannot fail on morals, on faith and morals, the church has it right.

SPEAKER_02:

Now, if you have these previous popes all saying, including John Paul II, I mean, it starts getting a little bit different under John Paul II, but it's under John Paul II, too, where popes are saying the the death penalty is morally licit, but under these conditions, we're saying different, right?

SPEAKER_03:

But then under Francis, Francis starts using this language of inadmissible, and he starts making it like it's intrinsically evil without saying intrinsically evil. And he changes the catechism incites only himself, and so yes, so there's all of these things that are happening where the what Marshall's trying to say is look, if you're going to say the church cannot err on faith and morals, but then the church changes its teaching on faith and morals. What you're saying is the church has been wrong for 2,000 years, and that kind of makes the whole system collapse. That's why this is a big deal. This is also a 20-year-old 10-year-old teaching, as opposed to 2,000 years of church history.

SPEAKER_04:

So, like you know, it's a direct contradiction, it's not a small development, you know, like JP2's was. Um, it it just turned into a direct contradiction overnight.

SPEAKER_03:

So the the people making a big deal of this. I'm I'm just asking the Pope's plain is to actually hear the argument here. This is this is a big deal, and to be gaslit and say, like what Pine sap said Pine sap says I have zero respect for a logging the Pope. We get it, Judas. Daddy didn't show you enough love as a kid, and now you gotta make it make it the vicar of Christ problem. Like, shut up, seriously, dude. Shut like you've been Catholic for two years. Are you serious? What do you know about this? Like, I I I like you, dude, but like, come on, stop with the gaslight. You don't even know what you're talking about. It's gay, stop it. I'm I'm sorry, like I'm I'm I'm not trying to like start a fight, but like this is it's especially because you know that if the Pope said something, uh well, he did say something about immigration, right?

SPEAKER_04:

And you know that the that Pine sap and the Groipers would say, Oh, but really, we about that, you know, the church is this and this and this. It's like, well, the church also says a lot freaking more about the death penalty, but you say we have to follow the Pope on that little hippocritical much.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm I'm not I'm not I'm not even saying you can't hold that like you are against the death penalty. Like, you could be against the death penalty. I don't even care, like it's fine. You can be against the death penalty. Sure, we have bigger things to worry about, honestly. Like, I don't care what your personal opinion is on the death penalty. What we're talking about is the church changing the teaching from 2,000 years of saying not only is it licit, but like God has ordained this from heaven, essentially, that the that the that the public authorities have the right to do this, and then all of a sudden the church is like, nope, this is intrinsically evil. It's like you cannot do that, and just expect people to just be like, okay, no problem. This is you know, no contradiction here. This is this is the stuff that the Trads are are are trying to have the conversation about, right? And then to have these guys who convert under Francis, and I understand. Look, I uh here's the thing I do think guys like Pinesap, even Eric McCabe, like I do think these are guys of goodwill. Like, I do understand their instinct is to defend the church, defend the papacy. They come in from Protestantism where there's absolutely no authority, and then they come into the church and they just want to be good Catholics. Like, I'm not ascribing bad will to these people, I'm not putting motives on them. I think their motives are actually good, their intentions are good. But you have to hear the argument from the other side and understand it. It's it's it's not just that we want to trash the Pope. That too, like I'm like, I'm not, I'm I don't pearl clutch over language, I really don't. I don't pearl clutch on the language, but don't drop the F bomb in the same sentence you're speaking our Lord's name. Like the things like that are like, come on, like there's this etiquette. Like, I don't like I'm not, I don't care if somebody says the F word, I'm a construction worker, I hear it all day long. I'm not gonna cringe because somebody said the F word, but you don't say the F word in the same sentence that you're talking about, especially when you're typing something out, like you have when you're typing something out, you have the time to put together a real sentence.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, no, you can't say it's it was out of habit. No, it wasn't out of habit. You typed it, but I don't it didn't just blurt out of your mouth.

SPEAKER_03:

And like I said, like I don't pearl clutch over somebody saying shit or something like that. Like, I don't care, it's not it's it's the context you're using it in. And I tried to talk to him privately about that. I'm like, look, it's just it's just it's just bad uh because he dropped an F bomb in the middle of a sentence where he's saying our Lord's name, and I'm like, dude, it's like borderline blasphemous. Like, what do you? I don't even know what you're going for here. He's like, I don't really have time if somebody's gonna pearl clutch over language. Like, I'm not pearl clutching over language, I don't care if you say the F-word two sentences before, it's in that context. You don't use it, like it's just it's just not good. And and then he's got videos on his channel about the the sins of the tongue. It's like, what like I don't know, like whatever. I'm not even trying to get on fine tap. He just he's just been like hammering the whole oh low IQ, low IQ uh people criticizing the Pope. It's like, no, dude, you're being low IQ, you're not actually understanding the argument, and you're car you're making a caricature of people who are upset about this stuff. This is legit reasons to be upset. And even the block of ice thing, no, there's nothing intrinsically wrong about the Pope blessing a block of ice. We have popes bless cattle, and we have pope like we go in and we bring all our stuff, and we have the candles get blessed, and holy job gets blessed.

SPEAKER_04:

Generally, though, when immaterial objects are or when material objects are blessed, there are things that they are things that are going to be used, generally speaking. You don't just bless something to bless it, usually. Um, but yeah, I mean the ice, whatever.

SPEAKER_03:

But don't care it's the optics of that, it's the optics of it. It's like you have the Pope along with the UN, you have Arnold Schwarzenegger waving this, it's just gay and cringe.

SPEAKER_02:

And I have news for you. Like, I'm I'm you guys think we're the ones talking about this that we're preventing people from coming in the church. No, that is what's preventing people from coming.

SPEAKER_03:

I know a list of Protestants who are interested in Catholicism, and when they see garbage like that, they're like, I'm not coming into this liberal cesspool. It's insane. So I don't know what the right approach is. I don't like I don't want to do the the the hot take of the Pope stuff. I really don't. Tonight isn't really even about the Pope, it's more about the conversation that Catholics are having. Like, we're I'm watching how the conversation is going, and these are guys that I like, these are guys that I genuinely like, and I'm like, how are we going to ever form any kind of like a coherent movement if everybody's just talking past each other? They won't sit and listen, they won't actually try to understand the argument coming from the other side. Like, nothing is going, we're never going to build momentum for anything because we're just crapping on each other. Every one of us, we're all doing it. I'm guilty of it too. I just did it in the beginning of this episode. I like I genuinely don't dislike Pine Sap. I don't dislike Eric McCabe. I like those guys. I'll I'm always open to having a conversation with them. Um, so wait, I want to see what uh Catholic Esquire just said. Uh the problem with the ice blessing was also the pagan ritual that occurred right after the ice blessing in the presence of I didn't, I didn't actually watch all I saw was like images of it and stuff. I couldn't, I can't sit through that stuff. It's just so cringe, like it's so cringe, it is embarrassing. All that ice, the Apple Tinis and the extra gold. It's like I'll ant like some. It's just the the so yeah, like like I said, like I'm watching these this guy like critique Taylor and make a caricature of what he's saying, calling him a neocon and things like that. And it was just like, I'm like, this isn't gonna work, man. Like, I can't I don't know if I could do this for another 10 years. It's just bizarre, it's more like 15 to 20, probably. That and that could be that much. Now, Taylor had two really good takes tonight.

SPEAKER_04:

Um see if I can pull them up here.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, let's pull those up.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, I have I have the one I sent you.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't let's let's not do the death. Well, I guess because we're talking about the death penalty, right? We'll start with that. But the other one was his take on papal encyclicals because I have that one ready. Yeah, let's do the so the catechism of the council of Trent on the death penalty. The power of life and death is permitted to certain civil magistrates because theirs is the responsibility under law to punish the guilty and protect the innocent. Far from being guilty of breaking this commandment, thy shall not kill. Such an execution of justice is precisely an act of obedience to it, for the purpose of the law is to protect and foster human life. This purpose is fulfilled when the legitimate authority of the state is exercised by taking the guilty lives of those who have taken innocent lives. In the in the Psalms, we find the vindication of this right, morning by morning. I will destroy all the wicked in the land, cutting off all evildoers from the city of the Lord. Psalm 10, uh Psalm 101, 8. Now that's the catechism of Trent. Yep. Now to go from that to the death penalty is inadmissible because of human dignity is violated in it. Like, that's not the same as saying, like, okay, the modern prison system is different, and we can actually protect human life now.

SPEAKER_04:

That this is the this is a I mean, so so there's what uh four 450 years in between those two. Here is something from Pius XII, I think in 1953. So this is 70 years ago. Even when it is a question of the execution of a man condemned to death, the state does not dispose of the individual's right to live. It is reserved rather to the public authority to deprive the criminal criminal of the benefit of life when already by his own crime he has deprived himself of the right to live. That was 70 years ago.

SPEAKER_03:

Dude, that's that and that's actually true. Like there are some crimes so heinous that you you like you give up your right to live. Yeah, you can commit crimes that are so heinous that you you give up your right to live. You don't you don't have a right to be amongst like to be amongst the human population.

SPEAKER_02:

It's just you you have to understand that this stuff is very important, and to and to go from post-conciliar popes having our back on this stuff to then having guys who converted under Francis going into it and like they their motives are good, they want to protect the Pope.

SPEAKER_03:

They want you know, they want to they I know what you guys are doing, I know I understand like it's a good instinct, it's a good Catholic instinct you have, but we can't just lie and gaslight one another, yeah. And that's from Genesis 9. Yeah, who so whosoever shall shed man's blood, his blood shall be shed. For man was made in the to the image of God. So look, the thing is, you're not you you also have all these Protestants looking on, right? And there are many that are interested in the Catholic Church, and if we don't actually speak out and say, look, this is problematic, you're not helping them come in at all. It's it's not helpful, it's really not. So I understand like the conversation around okay, what should our approach be? Like, what should how should we handle this? Do we want to take the same tactics we did under Francis? Maybe we should come up with a new approach to things. I understand that, but to just pretend like the ice blessing was no big deal, I'm sorry, guys, you're so wrong on that. That is such boomer cringe nonsense. So, uh Taylor's other take was this I have it. Modern popes spent years writing encyclicals on a minutiae that almost nobody reads. Then they perform on-screen gaffes that instantly influence millions of people. They don't yet understand how viral influence works. We can soberly discuss doctrine and ecclesial governance, but meanwhile, a tidal wave of Protestants, Orthodox, and Catholics is are crashing out against the papacy, all based on 48 hours of awkward viral Pope Leo content. This the past 48 hours have been such a public relations disaster, like just a total, especially from the Pope coming in and saying, I want to be the Pope who kind of brings peace to the situation. I don't want to continue the polarization. I want it's like, look, the um you guys have throwing me off to tweet on screen those comments on screen. Um, the oh I just lost my whole train of thought. So bad. The last 44 hour 48 hours. The last 48 hours was such a public relations disaster. Um that I no, I had like a real real thought I was going through.

SPEAKER_05:

I just got totally thrown off.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, you think we should talk about our sponsor because we forgot to do that.

SPEAKER_03:

So we'll do that in a second. We'll we'll I just wanna I wanna wrap wrap up these thoughts on this. It's just um like you have you have everything from um this this cringe oh oh environmentalism. That's what I was gonna say. Like, so you also have these guys who are like the Catholic Church is for the environment and stuff, and it's like, yes, like the Catholic Church has always dude, I've an obstacle. The Catholic Church has always been um for caring for creation, right? It's like God gave us the gift of creation. We do, we are supposed to be um, you're supposed to conserve your local environment. You don't want to litter, you don't want to treat your environment like trash, but to can to conflate that with climate change and green, like all these green bills that they're paying, like all of that stuff is leftist infiltration. And for you guys to run cover for that, you're running cover for revolution in the world.

SPEAKER_04:

And there's been a ton of studies done that show that the whole green movement is really directly related to the communists, like when you talk about a green movement, you're really talking about like the Red Soviets, more or less. So, I mean, the for the Catholic Church to go from fighting communism so hard in the 50s and stuff to now more or less being a big proponent of communist movement is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03:

And and look, this is this is they're getting swept up in this because they're saying, Oh, like care for the planet, you know, this is all good stuff. We we wanna we want to take these initiatives for clean energy and things like that, and it sounds real good, but you all know what's coming with that. What's coming with that is like digital ID, what's coming with that is carbon taxes, things like that. These are all these are all leftist revolutionary things to to have like dictatorship over your life. So for us to just make it like, oh, this is just the Catholic Church being in favor of the environment. I'm I'm fine with the church speaking out about caring for the planet Earth. I'm fine with that. I'm fine with us talking about not, you know, pumping toxic chemicals into the environment or polluting our waterways, things like that. Those are all good things, but this climate hysteria stuff is not that, and it's very dangerous. Uh, my Protestant friend I've been working on has changed his mind about the church on a lot, but he said, uh, but he sent me the Pope's video of this. These things from Popes have been a constant block, convert friends, family, like constant block for convert friends and uh family. Look, I spoke with Keith Nestor today, and he was like, Look, he's never gonna speak publicly about the Pope, like he's just never gonna be that guy. Mike Pantile, same thing. These guys are never, but they're heartbroken because, like, we all were hoping uh against hope that Leo would just chill out with this stuff, like just chill out a little bit with this nonsense. But he's so that's why I like all of this kind of pent up energy came out in the last 48 hours, and yeah, it looked like it was like this hostility towards the Pope and stuff, but I don't like when people ascribe These motives to trads as if they have like evil intentions against the pope and they want to undermine the church, or it's just heartbreaking for a lot of people. It's heartbreaking, especially when you're dealing with post-conciliar popes. It's not like these are even trads, you're talking about conservative, just novus ordo Catholics that are feeling this way. It's the same reason I'm when when I talked about the trad movement, like there was the trad movement under Francis was a lot more than trad's a lot more. It was it was conservative Catholics because Francis was taking hits at everybody, calling everybody that liked to kneel for communion rigid and backwards and calling us copophagiacs and things like that, and it kind of made made a uh like a lot of people who normally wouldn't be in the same group come together, and yeah, and that seemed to be dissipating. And I was like, I don't know what's going to happen with the triad movement under Leo. And so the like the first day of this, I was kind of like, Oh, look, everybody's getting back together, everybody's you know, we're we're fighting the same enemy, which isn't the Pope, it's leftist ideology, it's modernism, it's modernism, like that's what the enemy is. The enemy is not the pope, the enemy is these leftists who have infiltrated the hierarchy, and they're just pushing this stuff that we all know is wrong. We all do, like, even you Pope Splainers, who you're trying to defend this against all it's indefensible, but you're trying, and your motives are good, but you know, deep down, if you're it like you know it's not good, like if you're if you're arguing the same position as James Martin, as Mike Lewis, as the the the the lesbian furry with he him or she, she her and her freaking profile, like you gotta think a little bit about that. Like you have to think. It's not, you know, it's it's one thing to say, well, the Catholic position is different than political. This has nothing to do with politics. I don't like politics, like, I'm not into politics. I can't stand the MAGA movement. I mean, not that I can't stand the MAGA movement, I just think Trump is not what they want him to be. I just don't care about politics. This isn't about I'm not I'm not for the death penalty because I'm a Republican, I don't care about that stuff. Um I'm for the death penalty because that is what that is what the church has always taught. I'm for the death penalty because I care about the taking of innocent life. That's why I'm for the death penalty. And I I honestly don't let's not like I I'm you know, I do think there are plenty of punishments that can be dealt out that don't have to go to the extreme of death penalty, but it is for the the inconsistency in the church teaching. Like if you're going to flip a teaching like that, what you're saying is the church can err on faith and morals, and that is the whole premise of papal infallibility. Everybody's acting like if we criticize the Pope, we're we're saying he's infallible. We're saying infallible.

SPEAKER_04:

No, the Pope can err on faith and morals when it's not uh speaking ex-cathedra. Right. But the church can't. Right, which is why the universal ordinary magisterium or the church teaches that the death penalty is listed.

SPEAKER_03:

So it's it's not, you know, I I'm just you know, I think I think the conversation needs to be had a little bit differently this time. I don't want it to be I don't want it to be gaslight pope spleeners against conservative Catholics, and then conservative Catholics fighting with the Trads, and then the Trads have their own civil war going on right now. Yeah, I don't know what we're gonna do here. I'm tired of the tribalism. I want to build some kind of a movement here. I want I want to get people to sit down and have a conversation because they're all people that I I I think are valuable in their own way, they all have something to offer, and I think everybody everybody is going to, you know. I mean, you go back to the the solidarity principle of John Paul II, that's how he brought down communism, right? In a in a way, kind of brought it down.

SPEAKER_04:

I think we're starting to see that it we didn't bring it down and maybe well who brought down the Berlin Wall. It it yeah, yeah. It realized that uh its best chance at winning was to uh yeah, we're not gonna go there.

SPEAKER_03:

Um but I mean that's I that's um what's the Trad Civil War?

SPEAKER_04:

Part of it was uh hold on, part of it was Murray and uh Salmons going after each other. Well, look, man. By the way, I'm T Murray in that on that one.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I don't know what's up with Salmons lately. Salmons running Crisis magazine, and he doesn't want to talk about the crisis.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't know what's salmon's is probably too busy worrying about his other make what his other magazine is talking about.

SPEAKER_03:

One Peter F what is going on. Oh my goodness. That's all locals conversation tonight. We gotta talk about Tim Flanders. I don't know what's going on with this guy. I don't know what's happening with Tim Flanders. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't know, I don't get it. I think October 7th is coming up fast.

SPEAKER_03:

Tim Flanders. So uh look now now but you have that whole thing that we just talked about, and then you have Dr. Kważnevsky on Matt Fred today. It's like this contrast of everything going on.

SPEAKER_04:

So that was the first besides a couple homilies I've watched from Father Altier over the last couple of days. That was the first Catherine content, besides her own, that I've watched in in a year or more.

SPEAKER_03:

I watched like the whole four hours, too.

SPEAKER_04:

I did too, and it was yeah, it was good, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it was really good. Um, there's one clip.

SPEAKER_04:

What amazed me most is at the end of that four hours, Kwasneski looked like he was just getting in his groove, like he he was ready to go for another six.

SPEAKER_03:

So I I'm pretty sure the conversation was like six hours long, and it's gonna be two parts. Really? There's another part coming out next Wednesday, I believe. Oh wow. So um, unless he unless he edited it down and crammed it all into one, but that from what I understand, it was a it's a six-hour conversation, and the other two hours comes out next week. Sweet. Um, there was one clip that's relevant to this conversation that I kind of want to um I want to play. Uh it's the one I wrote Matt asked about discourse between trads and normies. Yep. So it's it's it's a quick minute and a half conversation, but it's kind of relevant to what we're talking about right now.

SPEAKER_00:

Church uh mass, nervous normies like me, I suppose. And I don't think it's unfounded, eh? Is that there seems like there's this perpetual cynicism against whatever the church today is saying, a sort of resistance against any initiative that's being led by some apostolate. Uh, so it's like we can't celebrate anything, you know. So, hey, Bible in a year, how great is that? That's the number one podcast. Modernism. I don't let me finish because I've I want to go on a bit of a bender here. Um, you know, or Faustina. I've heard people say, well, that that that devotion's satanic. Or um John Paul II's uh Theology of the Body. Now it's one thing to have have legitimate criticisms about it, but it's another thing, again, to call it satanic. And I just think it can't be healthy to live in this perpetual state of elbows up against the mother who's supposed to be teaching you. Now, maybe there's good reasons that you have to be on guard given what you've just laid out. Uh, but I think Novus Auto Catholics, I don't mean to use that in a disparaging way or anyway, but just those who attend the Novus Auto Mass, for better or worse, don't live in that position. They live in a sort of openness to the church, and maybe that gets abused, but I think there's a sort of state of like peace that Novus Auto Catholics have that sometimes we don't encounter. And I understand that that can be a character and a straw man of the average Latin Mass going Catholic, but sometimes online you'll see people who are very angry continually, and you think, okay, I look at other Latin Mass Catholics like Teresa of Lesieux, she didn't have to keep going on about this. Whenever I encounter a Latin mass Catholic who I love and learn from, it feels like we're always talking about liturgy.

SPEAKER_03:

Um what do you think about that? Um well like him saying like our like from the church, like because I I'll be honest, I don't I'm not praying the I'm not praying the Divine Mercy Chaplet. I'm not I don't pray the Luminous Mysteries, like I just I kind of just don't care about any of that stuff. It's like I I pray I pray the rosary as Saint Dominic gave it to us. I and it's not that I don't have any hostility towards that stuff. I just I just kind of I kind of view anything after the council as like I don't know some of these innovations. I'm skeptical, I am skeptical of like most of the innovations after the council. So he's not wrong, like I I I'm I'm he's he's making a fair characterization, I think.

SPEAKER_04:

Um so I mean you and I are both cradle Catholics, yeah. And like I I grew up praying the rosary all the time. Um so by the time the the Luminous Mysteries came out, I was 14. I've been praying the rosary pretty regularly for eight years already at that point, and like you know, and and I often prayed with my grandparents who have been praying it since they were kids in the 20s and 30s. So when they came when all that came out, I was just like, yeah, you know, like like from my memory, no one cared. Like, oh new mysteries, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_03:

Like when I when I first reverted, did I pray the luminous mysteries? I don't I don't I mean I I'm not like in principle against meditating on different no events in scripture.

SPEAKER_04:

No, I mean and they they they existed before JP2 yeah thought he could just add them to the Dominican rosary, right? They were a separate the the the the chaplet of light, it was a separate chaplet and it had been for a while. So I don't know why they needed for to be added to the Dominican rosary when there's so many other uh chaplets, you know. The Franciscans have a different rosary, you know. There's you have your chaplet, the chaplet of the seven sorrows, things like that. Like, so no, I don't have any problem with them per like in and of itself. I just don't pray them. I'm not saying I wouldn't pray them, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Like if I were to get too much, I'm not I'm not like fundamentally against them, I just I don't have that devotion, like I just don't they're just not a part of my rosary devotion, right? But but I do think there's something to the luminous mysteries leading to the Sonatal mysteries, like I kind of see all this stuff as like incremental like steps towards kind of wackier stuff, and um St. Faustina, I just never read her diary, like I don't and it's not it's not like out of principle or anything.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't I just never read her diary, and that got popularized like after I grew up too, right? So yeah, and it in it's largely uh John Paul II had a had a had a a love for her, so I think you know that's right. Uh and I I don't have any problems praying uh with people who pray the divine mercy chaplet. It's just anytime I would pray the divine mercy chaplet, I'd rather pray the rosary, you know what I mean? So it um I I do think those who do rail against both probably do more harm than good.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, okay, so that's kind of what Matt's getting at is a lot of the conversation. Uh all right, so I like that I think it's toxic from both ends. Yeah, like I do see what what happened. So earlier in the interview, Kwaznewsky says, Look, the the problem with novus ordo trad discourse is most trads spent most of their life in the novus ordo and then discover tradition. And then we know both. So like you know both, but like you come to tradition, you have this feeling like I have been robbed, and then you kind of get radicalized by the tradition, and you're like, you have this militancy about it because you're like, How did they take this from me? Right, so that translates into your conversations online, and then people that go to the novus orto interpret your militancy as judgment, and and they feel like you're saying the novice if you attend the novus order, you're less a less Catholic than me or something, or you're not as good of a Catholic as me. When the truth is, like you probably just don't have access to the Latin mass, and if you did, you'd probably fall in love with it because most of the like good Nova Sorta Catholics I know would love it if their Nova Sorta was more traditional and there was Gregorian chant and there was kneeling for communion and there was no altar girls, and there was no, you know, women reading at the lecture and women lectors and things like that. Like you would all you all of you would love all of those things, and all of those things are just inherent in the Latin mass. So I don't know why you guys wouldn't just love like you just would love it if you'd go to it, so but it's not like like it's not like you're it's your fault that the hierarchy enacted this other liturgy, it's uh it's our our criticisms are for the most part of of the the items themselves and not of the people.

SPEAKER_04:

Right? And when when we cite statistics that say, you know, 51-52 percent of those who attend the novice ordo uh believe abortion is okay, we're not we're not saying that that all those who go to the novus or believe that or or or things of that nature. Uh I guess we are kind of condemning those who do believe that, because we should condemn those who do believe that. But um we're we're not saying that Novus Ordo teaches it. Not not not um directly, not explicitly, no.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. But it but there is something about so though okay, so I'll I'll put it this way. It when it even comes to dress at the Novus Ordo versus the TLM, there's something about when you walk into a TLM where you feel this pressure to dress nice, and it's not just because everybody else is dressed nice, like there's something very formal about the Latin mass where you're just ooh, this isn't this isn't casual. Like I can't, you know, I can't, I don't know, there's something going on here. I can't just be in here in my in my you know gym shorts or whatever.

SPEAKER_04:

Where which is especially interesting because the um in the Latin mass, the priest isn't gonna see you, you know. He's right, he's facing the other way.

SPEAKER_03:

But it's more just like the the um the reality of it makes yes, that is true. Rob's kids and cross. The reality of it, there's something that you will just go, whoa, I I can't dress like that here, right? But when you go to a novice order, like we were critiquing the Andrea, what is it? Bodich uh Andrea Bocelli. Andrea Bocelli was at a novus or in Italy singing the Ave Maria in shorts and flip-flops, and it was just normal, like there's something so casual about the Novus Ordo.

SPEAKER_04:

It's just like you walk in and so I mean at the cathedral on Saturday for confession, every and you know, everyone everyone was in shorts, t-shirts, and I'll be honest, and that's at a beautiful cathedral, and and I was too granted. I could come up with excuses like we had just come from a family event and whatnot, but but um that is the atmosphere, even as a beautiful cathedral.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, but listen, here's what I'm telling you. Yes, I wasn't dressed particularly well for that confession either, but it was because we knew we were going to a Novus Ordo Cathedral. Like if we if we were going to an FSSP for confession, you and I would have stopped back at the hotel and changed and then went. You're not wrong.

SPEAKER_04:

No, I know that is screwed up and wrong in our parts, but it is what it is.

SPEAKER_03:

That's it. There's because look, and maybe maybe that's uh like when when Benedict did the mutual um enrichment thing, remember when Benedict uh like he was like, Oh, we'll have the novice order and the Latin mass at the same parish, and we'll do mutual enrichment, you know. Um, there was a lot most of the enrichment went one way where it was like if you had a Latin mass in a parish, you made fun of a blind man. Yeah, all right, but he he knows what shorts are, he knows what he's wearing. Um, when you um what was that just saying?

SPEAKER_01:

Mutual enrichment, Benedict. Oh, mutual enrichment.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, so the enrichment largely went one way. Um, where if you had a TLM at your di at the awesome at your diocesan parish, your novice order would start to look a lot nicer. The enrichment that went the other way, I think, was um a I don't know because I've I don't know because I can only compare it to like a an SS an SSPX parish I've a chapel I've been to or an FSSP, but there's something about if you go to a diocesan Latin mass and and your your wife or daughter forgets her veil, like you're not gonna get judged for it. You know, nobody's gonna say anything. Where if you walk in an SS SSPX chapel without your veil, somebody's coming over and giving you a veil. Typically, like somebody will come over and go, No, no, no, you're veiling. There's nothing wrong with that. No, I'm not I'm not saying there is, I think that's the enrichment that went the other way. It's like informality. Like, I think that's that's the enrichment.

SPEAKER_04:

What's the opposite of an enrichment enrichment then?

SPEAKER_03:

Uh degradation. Um, yes, you should you should dress up for the novice order. I'm not saying, yeah, obviously, yeah. If you it's you should be wearing your Sunday best to mess for sure. Um, I'm just saying it kind of breeds an atmosphere of informality and you know, because the liturgy kind of go wearing whatever formal. Yeah, it the the liturgy itself is informal, you know. So um, yeah, I do think the conversation Matt had um Matt had with Dr. K was I think it was important because you're introducing a largely normy audience to a gentle a gentle explanation, right? Where instead of this hard conversation that we're constantly having on Twitter and things like that, like the the way we're all having the conversation is um there is an element of the Novosotors Hassa, of course. Oh, that that I didn't get to that yet. That's right. So it's not an avoidance or so, yes, that's that's what we do on our part, right? Like we come in with this like militancy and they perceive that, but I have I have never even if you read the comments in Matt's video, the people that are dismissing Dr. K are not dismissing him on his arguments, they're dismissing him with ad hominem attacks, like it's like they feel judged and they will just lash out because they think you're judging them. And it's a it's a strange thing, it's like when you criticize boomers, and every boomer gets sensitive about it, except for Mimi. Mimi's awesome. Um, but nice every boomer takes it personally if you criticize boomers. Like my dad caught one show of ours, and I criticized boomers, and he lost it. He was like, Like, dad, you never watched my show once. I gotta worry about you watching my show and saying something about boomers. It's this uh this and it it that might be who's late, like throwing those those comments in Matt's chat, too. Might be a lot of boomers taking offense like that, too. But I've noticed it from all corners, right? And this this moniker of rad trad for anybody that even had the slightest criticism of what happened in the past 48 hours with Leo. The the label of rad trad gets thrown at them, like there's some there's some lunatic. How dare you criticize the post? Like, guys, this is this is nuts what we're watching. I mean, how do you not criticize it? It's it's I don't know. I I feel like defending it is preposterous to me, and that was always I just don't want to do this for another 15 years, man. I don't want my I don't want to talk about this stuff.

SPEAKER_04:

I've been like and you could ask, you could ask my that read like a father, uh a father Taylor Marshall SJ to which father marshall sj. You might have to bring him back for this pontificate. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03:

I've just been um really sad over the last like day, day and a half. No, just day one. I was having a blast. Like day one, I was even having fun with like Christopher Hale, like because Christopher Hale was like gloating beyond belief. I'm like, you must be in your glory, right?

SPEAKER_04:

We block Grover, no uh, no orthodox watching the show.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, he's east he's eastern quote orthodox. We won't let him in here. Um, the the the gloating was almost funny. Like he was he was just like in his glory. He's like, Yes, we have a pope who's a liberal, like and you gotta give those guys their due. Like, go ahead, go ahead, have your laughs, gloat, gloat away, is what it is.

SPEAKER_04:

Hey, we can at least we know way where Peter is will get to survive for a few more years, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I guess. I mean, it's good, it's just I don't know, and I don't know what everybody's approach is going to be. I like okay, so even watching um the different um the different groups do the criticism thing, um, I'm seeing people try to like some people are balancing what they're saying, other people are like, I told you guys, I told you this was coming. And the thing is, I actually enjoy I think all of those things have their place, like they actually do, and we're going to figure something out. It's going to take like, do you think Leo is going to learn from this and not do this again? Or do you think this is like the first in a series of things to come?

SPEAKER_04:

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh I I think he's gonna learn from this. I do. I think I think the past 48 hours, I don't look, I don't care.

SPEAKER_04:

It depends who he really is. If he's the conciliatory I just want to make peace with all sides, then then he'll learn how how to avoid these optics. I mean, I think we've learned he he he's definitely no crat or even conservative, yeah. Nothing like that. Um but i if he really is wants to be conciliatory, he'll learn from the optics, or maybe he really is just a this is helpful. Francis 2.0 and it will just be the start of 20 years of this. This is helpful.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, Anthony's an idiot. Okay, all right. Um, I think I think he'll learn from this. Um I think it it all he could have handled the the conversation with the reporter and just said, Look, I'm not comfortable uh throwing a f off-the-fly comment on this situation. Um, we're talking about things behind the scenes, that's all I'm gonna say for now.

SPEAKER_04:

Like just something like that, and you know, you know, he could still kind of I'm not gonna say fix it, but he could smooth things over by coming out and make a clarifying statement. Like obviously, we we now know he believes the death penalty is I don't know if I want to say immoral, right? But he's against the death penalty. We know we know that for sure now, and we really knew it before, anyways. But he could come on and say something like, you know, my statement in no way meant to equate the execution of a murderer with you know 60 million children being aborted. Yeah, that that would smooth things over.

SPEAKER_03:

This is also a very good point, right? So, what's happening in Charlotte? The people that are like hoping something's going to come and we're gonna get our breadcrumbs of the Latin mess, it's not happening. Like it's not happening. I I mean, if you I think if people request if the bishops request permission, they'll get it. But if you don't request permission, I just think he's gonna say nothing on it. Like, I don't I can't imagine the bishop of Charlotte made that decision after after backing off in June and going, we're gonna wait to hear from from Rome.

SPEAKER_04:

So you think TC continues but with less direct persecution from Rome itself? I think this I think the documents you won't have Roche going after diocese, but they're not gonna stop a bishop from shutting it down in his own diocese.

SPEAKER_03:

A bishop, they won't stop a bishop from shutting it down, and they won't stop a bishop from continuing it. Right, they'll give the extensions when they're asked, or if a bishop wants to shut it down, but you also had that outgoing bishop out of LA who was going to Texas, Monterey, you know, and on his way out, he destroys the TLM, and then on his way in, he shuts down one in Austin, and shuts one down in Austin. It's like these guys are doing um, these guys are doing what they're allowed to do. I've been listening to a lot of farther Chad Rebecca's teachings on YouTube, and I think he'd make a great pope. Yeah, so do we all.

SPEAKER_04:

He would be so pissed if he was made pope.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, he's he wouldn't want that. I still think Maudsley would be the best pope. He'd be Maudsley would be the only pope that can actually fix everything. Um, but yeah, all right. We're gonna we're gonna wrap this up. I don't know. I I hope the gaslighters chill out because the this stuff is uh I like having a guest in a b, but it's great listening to Ant and Rob discussing. Thank you, Vince. Appreciate you. Uh he shut it down in Austin and at Texas AM. Yeah, guys, I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

I I think I think uh I think we I think the revolution continues. The revolution continues, it's not gonna stop.

SPEAKER_03:

No, but I I think we do still need to figure out a good game plan. Like, I don't think look, what like Rob, you said this last episode. You were like, okay, so like do we do what we did under Francis? Because what happened, what we did under Francis just led to a doubling down, right? It was like it didn't work. That strategy didn't work under Francis, so why would it work under Leo? I'm not saying grovel.

SPEAKER_04:

I think it might actually work under Leo, to be honest. Well, let's see how the let's see how if he is kind of squishy and wants wants to make peace, then the the then the louder we are, then the more he might be conciliatory towards us. I don't know. I'm not saying that's the right thing.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I yeah, it's up in the air. We'll see. But what all right, we're gonna we're gonna go. I it's just uh don't you dare say that.

SPEAKER_04:

Is that a joke or are you serious?

SPEAKER_03:

Is that a joke? That's that's my that's my joke. Uh did y'all see my comments today on papal papal maxing? Agree or disagree? I didn't I didn't see that. No. No, I did think that your point about uh social media and just the what the what the what can be done with simple imagery and memes is very important now. Like you have way more of an effect what you do in a two-minute video soundbite or clip than you ever will in a in a in a oh or a maxim. Yeah, you'll you'll have way more of an impact with the I mean you see what the last 48 hours did, right? There's way more impact from that than you'll ever have from an encyclical. The encyclicals are for nerds, like we nerd out on that stuff. If there's something, you know, we're we're gonna when that when that is the next instance, the first encyclical is gonna be on the poor and the care for the poor. I think it was started by Francis, and it's gonna be it's it's kind of like the um the first Francis encyclical was half written by Benedict and half written by Francis. So that's like the only one that sounds pretty decent, where like Benedict is talking about evangelizing, and he's like, you know, before you preach Jesus Christ, you should get to know the person first and stuff. It's a it's a decent encyclical, but that only the first half, because that's what Benedict wrote. Um, whereas we'll see what happens with this one. Maybe the second half will be the better half, you know. Um we'll see. Uh, I didn't hear an update on that St. Rocco's thing. Say St. Rocco's definitely getting a somber down. I don't know. I don't know who's telling me the truth yet. Shut down.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know if they're telling me the truth yet. I'm gonna I do not know. I'll have to ask.

SPEAKER_03:

That's uh that's one you don't do them for the most. It's Kevin James's parish. It's my parish, Kevin James's parish. Yeah, that's like that's an important parish in our diocese. Um, all right, so we're gonna head over to locals. We're doing a short local show tonight, but I want to I gotta I want to talk about one Peter 5 and Tim Flanders. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh boondock says he was just kidding.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, thank god. No, seriously, thank god. Um wait, Kevin James is Catholic. All right, we get it, guys. Wait, wait, wait, Paul Blart.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, all right, we get it.

SPEAKER_03:

I can't do this joke again. Um, all right, we're gonna head over to locals. Um, if you guys can please hit like, subscribe, share the show.

SPEAKER_04:

Help us can we talk about our sponsor before we go over to local groups?

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04:

We're so terrible at this. I'm so terrible about this. Jason and guys over there. Um okay. Do you want me? I'm gonna I'm gonna read. the actual script they gave us. Yeah, let's read the script. Let's hear it. Um let me just put on the banner here. Okay. So yeah, this sucks, guys. It wasn't me and Ant.

SPEAKER_03:

You you know what you gotta do? We gotta give this to Taffy. You gotta get you gotta give this to Taffy and let Taffy come up with a commercial for them.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I'm gonna read one of the scripts word for word. The moral pillars of our society have rotten away. Chewed up by the termites of abortion, divorce, transgender. How can I read this script if it's gonna get our video canceled guys? You gotta think about that.

SPEAKER_01:

Requisant.

SPEAKER_04:

Chewed up by the termites of abortion, divorce, transgenderism, and every kind of cultural disease. If we hope to rebuild anything from this barbarism that just makes me think of Anthony Savage's comments from like three years ago. We need to keep Christ at the center of our efforts at Requisant Sellers they want to draw more attention to the glorious feast of Christ the King. So they are hosting a sale for the entire month of October. You can get 20% off all their red wines with code Rex Chalorum.

SPEAKER_03:

Go to RequisantSellars.com wait wait stop I can't get over yeah this and is definitely getting us a strike I can't get over the promo code they chose to be they asked they're like do you should we make how is that their promo code rex colorum who can spell first off come on it's it's chalorum do you not know how to pronounce who can spell that I can't well that's why I'm gonna tell everyone how to spell it you go to requisite sellers.com that's r-e-c usant sellers dot com and use code rex chalorum r-e-x c a e l-o r u m for 20 off they should make the pro they should make the promo code the Saint Michael prayer in Latin the whole thing the entire Saint Michael prayer in Latin should be their promo code listen that they look and stop with their ad listen here's the thing we love recusincers uh they are our bottle tonight yeah they're they're our they are the best sponsor ever they never tell us what we can and can't talk about they're a family owned um winery and they sell fruit they sell a bunch of stuff if you guys like us and you want to support our show support them because we would love to keep them as a sponsor um I I would uh yeah just go go go support reccucent they're an awesome catholic family they're they're selling some really good stuff um their their ads think but their wine is great so first off we're gonna call T H E I R bud yes he got it he he caught us he caught us his typo we will we will work on the ad with recusynt and we'll make Rob mispronounce it every time but all right thank you guys we're gonna head over to the other side thank you for sticking around for especially for that ad read but seriously please buy wine using that code guys for us yeah yeah please we'll try to we'll see if we can get a shorter promo code my goodness yeah wait promo code quick quam queba uh uh all right we'll see you guys on the other side come join us on locals bye I miss that song it's been a while I miss that crazy song let me just pull up the chat um that went quick dude that must have been a good a good episode because I didn't want to even do a show tonight like that we got in the green room I was like I'm not up to this tonight I don't know man my fourth show in four days yeah you've been going at it this week um but we're gonna keep locals short tonight but I am doing a show tomorrow night I'm gonna do a show tomorrow night my uh Mike Pantile is gonna come on and we're probably going to open the second hour up to you guys on locals so if you guys I'm missing that I mean you could come you're always invited obviously but we'll just call in that would be funny we're gonna do we're gonna riff for an hour on YouTube and then we might open it up to you guys over on locals and see if anybody wants to jump on um ask Mike what I do about an annoying business partner. I didn't know I had that rant in me to be honest like I when I woke up this morning I woke up this morning and I I just had like all this stuff going through my head and I was like I was like man I don't I like I I didn't know if I'd be able to like remember all of it and I didn't I didn't remember all of it because part of what I wanted to say was like the way we encounter each other online like there's a reason I'm able to have conversations with Chris Hale and Mike Lewis and it's because you want to use them no it's because I don't insult them is that my issue yes that where I go wrong yes like I don't insult them like I you can you can you can discuss differences and criticisms without insulting people and I think they know them of goodwill and I would never like sandbag them or try to like I see the way people treat Mike Lewis and I just don't do that like and I'm not like holding myself up as some like think you guys gotta be like me. I'm just saying it's easy to forget when you're talking to somebody online that there's a human being on the other side um but if we don't say Nick must have gone to trading in the bab in the Babylon divorce see how trading's going over there. The way we talk to each other has got to you know like if I don't know man I'm seeing the Catholic content space specifically like on Twitter and YouTube and all this stuff and I'm just like man if we don't figure out a way to talk I don't know what's going to happen. Majorian's alive Majarian's girlfriend won't let him Majarian's girlfriend won't let him use the internet there's no way she must she must have fallen asleep I think they're going together on Lila Rose's podcast to discuss their NFP journey if not that Chris will sure have them on together. Yes yes well yes Chris will yeah Majarian's making his his fiancee an e-girl if that's what's happening I think he's a lot of money girlfriend but it's your fiance I know there's a lot of money in it um so yeah I think uh I would like to I would like to see if we can all just start to talk to each other a little bit differently and maybe get something done because we're talking about that with like the getting like having action catholic action and I don't like I I know there's a drastic difference between guys like Catholic Esquire and Christian Wagner but I like both of them. So I don't know how to bridge that gap and I I may never get them to talk to each other but I'm still gonna talk to Wagner like I like Wagner and I think will I think he's very smart and he may hold slightly different liturgical opinions than me but I know he's a Catholic and I know he loves the faith and things like I'm not going to I'm not gonna get caught up in that whole guilt by association because somebody disagrees with the trads on I'm just not going to do that. So you know I I don't know I I think if I can talk to those to those people why can't others you know I think I think people need to get out of these like tribal mindsets where it's like I can't talk to anybody that disagrees with my position. It's kind of silly to think like that. If you don't start to talk to people of goodwill I'm not saying go talk to left cats I'm not saying like you need to have dialogue with Mike Lewis but it but but you are saying that no no no I am capable of it I'm not gonna have I'm not gonna like really try and build a dialogue with Mike Lewis but I'm capable of it like I can have a conversation with him is all I'm saying but I doesn't mean on air I'm just saying in general but like that's a very different thing from a guy like Wagner and a guy like Taylor you know what I mean like like you even look at Wagner and Taylor like they're yeah Taylor's a trad and Taylor's now starting to get into like criticizing some of the things he's seeing Wagner's not going to do something like that but that doesn't mean they're not Catholic brothers and brothers in in in in the Lord you know so we'll see how that goes but now Flanders man going on with Flanders dude like we saw him in Detroit and um he seemed very standoffish with me. I don't know why I mean I'm always I always like try to befriend him I don't I don't know if he's he's he's I don't think he's crazy about me. I think he I don't think he likes me to be honest um I just get that impression I don't I don't think he's a fan I don't think he's an Anthony fan to be honest but um man what he's what what what is he doing over at 1 Peter 5 man 1 Peter 5 is basically where Peter is now what's going on yeah it's basically what it is at this point uh I don't I don't know he does seem so defeated that's definitely what he seemed yeah he seemed when we when we met him yeah he's it's weird because he started his channel as a trad channel right meaning of catholic was started i mean i i found tim Flanders because he talked with Taylor same like that's how I found Tim Flanders he talked with Taylor then our trivia show was on Meaning of Catholic like we had a very good relationship with him for a a time um and then like kind of craziness broke out over Meaning of Catholic between Kennedy and Jeremiah and then Fowler was brought on and that and that just built tensions and then Jeremiah was really not a fan of ours especially after their uh uh trad uh recovery conference so they did their trad recovery conference it was before that but commercial well that's what I mean so they did their they did they announced their trad recovery conference and I just thought it was so goofy that I did like the I did that commercial where I was like I'm a recovering trad. I'm so tired of I finally got out of listening to Father Isaac Ameliza I don't know whatever it was I did it I did it completely satirical I was just kind of goofing on their like their media marketing their marketing that's what that's the wording their marketing of this thing and I goofed on it and he took it so personally Jeremiah that he kind of went off and ever since then there's just been this like I had to drop out of the meaning of Catholic telegram chats and all that stuff like I just I just was like all right I we you know I was like a I was a patron of Tim's channel for a very long time like I was I was giving him like 50 bucks a month when he was in his heyday and then after that happened I just kind of dropped out of all of it. I was like I'm not I don't even you know and then Tim kind of went through this phase where he was trying to host dialogue between trads and and normies on the most obscure possible subjects in the world like really strange stuff. He did do an excellent series on the JQ. So like he hosted everybody from Maudsley to like Christian Zionists or Catholic Zionists. Which he was and he was just very open to letting everybody present their opinions um but this last time we saw him he just kind of like I don't know if he was just tired because Tim goes to bed super early and we were up late so but he just I tried to talk to him about that series and he just seemed disinterested in the conversation with me and I was like I'm trying to like talk to you about your series like I don't really care like whenever you don't want to talk to me I'll leave you alone but he seemed disinterested in talking about his own series so he may have been tired but then these past couple of days he's kind of like haranguing Trads about how they're going to react to these these things from Leo and it just sounded like Stockholm syndrome. It did sounded like Stockholm syndrome um and I I'm I'm not sure I'm not sure how we should handle it but I know pretending the thing is good is not the way like pretending like the gaslighting thing I'll never do ever. Like I'll never do gaslighting I'll never do um I I could see ignoring it I could see just pretending it didn't happen but it's kind of difficult when it's everywhere like like these past 48 hours it was all that was happening. I was looking for other stories to cover I mean I found one story about a um gay Bible the gay bible we could have done and then I found another one about an 80 year old dementia patient being euthanized in Canada that probably could have riffed on a little bit but other than that man like there's nothing happening in like the Catholic world specifically and even politics was it's like government shutdown we're gonna talk about that I don't care about that and when even um when Kale says something you know like you know like wow that's what's and then Patrick Coffin copied Kale's tweet almost word for word which was the um the interesting thing is that you saw even the guys who have sorry um like even Mark Lambert was very upset these past 48 hours and he was like pretty gung ho um I saw Gavin Ashenden put out another video where he was trying to downplay the you know he was trying to downplay it no big deal but I don't know if it was gavin converted under Francis too so I don't I don't yeah he converted under Francis so I don't know if these guys actually under I don't know if he died I know mark's been marked a cradle Catholic so I think that's why Mark really took it to heart but I'm I really think a lot of the guys that came in under Francis don't actually understand what people are so upset about and they don't know the backstory to that seamless garment stuff. They don't understand that it's really just a tool for political manipulation. It's not it's not just trying to bring some it's not not Catholic at all. It's not like trying to bring the Catholic social teaching and put it into one like it's absurd. There's always been a hierarchy of evils and goods in Catholic teaching like we heard even when JD Vance talked about the order of moris right like the the order of love like there are you are you are you have an obligation to your family first then to your then to your town then to your state then to like you have an order of love and there's also an order of evil and some things are more reprehensible than others and the murder of innocent children just is there's a reason it's a sin that cries out to heaven so um what to majorian get majorian got perm perma banned no that's what they're saying no majorian got a six day suspension oh instant seven day ban he got a six day suspension for telling his alt to kill herself is is is Antonia his alt he told Antonia or whatever his alt account to kill itself he got a six here I am just watching uh this this this antonia account go at you know and then then I'll all of a sudden I see everyone posting oh majority i'm saying i'm just sitting here the heck is going on here i i was gonna start a war with him and the groipers i was gonna start a war with him and the groupers i told he texted me today and i go i go you got five days left you can't you can't respond i said i'm gonna ruin your reputation while you're can he still dm he can dm and he can play i mean he has my number he can text me but i uh i just thought i'm gonna destroy his reputation while he's while he's off um order of boris isn't that the app all these bishops were caught on oh my gosh uh you know you know what's stupid about this stupid show turns out this is exactly what i needed after the last two days um what should we get kale on about like i love having kale on he's just an interesting guy to talk to i don't know maybe we'll get him on and talk about Dante he's been doing a series on Dante I just like it the realizing his family was behind the whole scriptural rosary thing like like the original or just a version of it no the origin like like the book that's been in parishes forever his wife's family is behind I thought it was just like a version of it you're telling me like the scriptural rosary that like everybody prayed for like that was basically decades yeah wow that's so cool I I'd just like to hear about I guess just his Catholic experience growing up yeah um all right uh all right we're gonna call this one short Rob's streamed four days in a row and um I'm going to be on with Pantile tomorrow we're gonna do kind of like an open line Friday I'm gonna steal from Catholic answers a little bit we're gonna we're gonna riff for like 45 minutes an hour and then we'll open up the lines for you guys. So if anybody wants to hop on come up with some good questions. Catholic Esquire's in our um yeah he is oh that's awesome dude he must have paid so thank you very much appreciated brother uh part of the problem is that there is an unwillingness to recognize how political and therefore how bad things are in the Vatican it's worse than we want to admit i it's not just political like the you're talking CIA infiltration you're talking like it gets bad like you're talking like vegano's not wrong about the deep church have you ever read about have you ever read a lot about Project Gladio was that the like for before the council trying to get um foreign after well so it started as a as a CIA project to combat communism um in Europe and they wanted basically a uh a guerrilla army all throughout europe ready to to stop the communists if necessary um but they needed to find soldiers commander and and money for it uh so for the commander they they're like the head of it they chose an ex Nazi um and for money they started selling heroin through uh lucky luciano in the US oh yeah yeah and then they deposited that money in the Vatican bank for the the Vatican then to give that money to uh the the the Gladio cells then the Gladio cells would go out and commit acts of terrorism um yeah this was during world war two well after after world war two it it yeah all the way up until like the eighties and nineties early 90s yeah but look you even you even think about john paul the second and reagan how closely they work together on communism like if you think the american deep state and and intelligence agencies weren't deeply embedded in the Vatican during that and even up until now like it's all still like there's a very good chance that that um Benedict's rising nation could have been involved like they could have been involved in that and the election of Bergoglio and even I mean we don't know you you don't know I mean it's all conjecture but well someone asked and I'm curious about this too if if you know maybe more than I do what's up with um Michael Haynes and life site oh I don't know I don't know the backstory there Catholic Esquire can you follow me on Twitter so I can message you because I follow you and you don't follow me I'd like to be able to send you a DM I'd like to get you on here um be fun to have a conversation um I don't know but it is kind of I don't know life's life site's kind of imploding a little bit it looks like I don't know I don't know what's going on because uh because the co-founder just retired right uh yeah there's there's a lot going on over lifestyle man yeah even them like changing to station of the cross media and or wait what like their YouTube channel is like not station of the cross something like that it's like sign of the cross media or something there's something going on there I don't I don't know I don't I haven't I mean I could probably reach out to John Henry but I don't know I've I figured kind of let let the dust settle over there yeah probably a good idea let the dust settle and then and then I'll ask him privately or something but we'll see but all right guys we're gonna wrap this one up um yeah Catholic Espoire I would like to I would like to message you and get you on here um talk about tactics so all right wanna wrap this up uh yeah let's see I'll just play the old outro

Contributor

Anthony

Host
Contributor

Rob

Host