Avoiding Babylon
Avoiding Babylon was started during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic. During these difficult and dark days, when most of us were isolated from family, friends, our parishes, and even the Sacraments themselves, this channel was started as a statement of standing against the tyrannical mandates that many of us were living under. Since those early days, this channel has morphed into an amazing community of friends…no…more than friends…Christian brothers and sisters…who have grown in joy and charity.
As we see it, our job here at Avoiding Babylon is to remind ourselves and those who enjoy the channel that being Catholic is a joyful and exciting experience. We seek true Catholic fraternity and eutrapelia with other Catholics who, like us, are doing their best to live out their vocation with the help of God’s Grace. Above all, we try to bring humor and joy to the craziness of this fallen world, for as Hillaire Belloc has famously said:
“Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s always laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!”
Avoiding Babylon
Michael Knowles on Tucker Carlson (Full LOCALS Version)
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Avoiding Babylon +
Access to the FULL show on audio!Ever wondered what happens when heaven and hell clash? In this riveting episode, we're joined by Charles Fraune, whose research into exorcisms has uncovered extraordinary spiritual realities that few Catholics fully grasp.
Fraune takes us behind the veil, revealing how saints actively intervene during exorcisms, appearing as powerful weapons against demonic forces. You'll hear astonishing accounts of St. Joseph terrifying demons by striking his staff on the ground, and learn why exorcists strategically call upon specific saints to combat particular demonic influences. This isn't theoretical theology—it's spiritual warfare in action.
The conversation unveils a forgotten dimension of Catholic tradition: how cities once transferred their spiritual allegiance from pagan gods to patron saints, how relics create spiritual strongholds, and why demons specifically recognize and fear those who've conquered them in life. Fraune explains the theological underpinning for these phenomena with clarity and conviction that will transform how you understand the communion of saints.
We also explore Michael Knowles' recent appearance on Tucker Carlson, discussing why Gen Z is increasingly drawn to Catholicism's sacramental reality in a world of technological fakery and shallow spirituality.
Whether you're curious about spiritual warfare, fascinated by exorcisms, or simply seeking a deeper connection with the saints, this episode offers profound insights into the invisible battle taking place around us. The power of heaven isn't locked in the past—it's available now, waiting for our devotion to unleash it.
Purchase the book at: https://www.amazon.com/Most-Powerful-Saints-Exorcisms-Exorcists/dp/B0DSHG1D22/
"Protect Catholic Kids" Shirt Fundraiser for Victims of Annunciation Shooting: https://avoiding-babylon-shop.fourthwall.com/collections/protect-catholic-kids
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Once again, ai should assist and not replace human beings. When I'm traveling and don't have access to my studio and I need to add a voiceover to something that I've previously recorded, I'll have our editor use an AI clone, which is a little scary, as he can make me appear to say just about anything. He could even make me compliment those unfunny idiots at avoiding Babylon. Seriously, I cannot believe how obnoxious Anthony is and, trust me, behind the scenes, rob is no better. The only decent one is their intro guy, taffy.
Speaker 2:Crap. I chose the wrong one, chose the wrong one, hold on.
Speaker 3:Hold on, everyone Do the other one.
Speaker 2:Crap, I chose the wrong one, chose the wrong one. Hold on, hold on everyone. Do the other one, come on.
Speaker 3:Trent's going to watch the beginning of this too.
Speaker 2:I know, I know.
Speaker 3:Butchered it.
Speaker 2:There's one. I got to be careful not to do, though.
Speaker 3:Yes, there's one you can't play, but redo that. I can't believe you blew that intro. Trust me no trust me, no one's more mad than I believe. You blew that intro. Hold on just everyone.
Speaker 2:Pretend like the beginning of it too don't make everybody sit through the stupid song. Well, I can't. That's hard to do. Hold on everyone.
Speaker 3:Hold tight, pretend this didn't happen meanwhile, poor rob just heard me blow my lid off in the green room. Uh, you know what? Tonight's I'm gonna tell you guys, tonight's local show is going to be a good one, because I have a lot of pent up frustration and anger with my peers in the Catholic, in the Catholic commentariat. I'm just like. I'm just like some of these people are just so pompous, man, they're just so arrogant and pompous and I'm just getting tired of it. So you guys will hear me rant and rave over.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, we'll redo it. Let's pretend, let's go. This didn't happen.
Speaker 1:Once again, ai should assist and not replace human beings. When I'm traveling and don't have access to my studio and I need to add a voiceover to something that I've previously recorded, I'll have our editor use an AI clone, which is a little scary, as he can make me appear to say just about anything. He could even make me compliment those unfunny retards at avoiding Babylon. Seriously, I cannot believe how obnoxious Anthony is and, trust me, behind the scenes, rob is no better.
Speaker 3:We got that was worth it. Yeah, we got trying to say retards. Let me tell you something I don't know if he wants me to say this. We're not playing that one. We have taken shots at Trent on this show, but I still have a very good relationship with Trent. I always respect someone who can take a shot or two and have a good enough relationship that I sent him that video. I was like, okay, with this one coming. I was like, yeah, I don't care, he's happy.
Speaker 2:He actually sent trent a really really good one too, I did send that one.
Speaker 3:I don't think he was a fan trent. Trent's a good sport man. I do like him um yeah no this he's not the person I'm.
Speaker 3:Uh 15 minutes late well, okay, the 15 minutes late. I had a 10 o'clock start in Staten Island today and I didn't get home until I walked in my door at 7.30. I had to jump in the shower. My wife made an amazing corn chowder and I tried to slam that down real quick, so I just told Rob it was going to be a few minutes late. It was all on me tonight, not rob, but um so, um, yeah, there's uh man, we'll talk about that on locals because I, I just I'm getting fed up with people, um, and I will name you're about to pull a me on someone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's getting that bad, but it's just, it's just blatant disrespect. Um, but whatever, we'll do that later. Um so michael knowles was on tucker carlson and there's two ways we could go about this, because well, first off already when's it coming on uh 8, 30, and he can only stay till till nine.
Speaker 3:So he's gonna be 13 minutes so we got like 13 minutes to kind of just discuss the michael knowles thing. I got two clips we're gonna play. Um, we're gonna do the good tonight. Like there, I got two clips we're going to play, we're going to do the good tonight. There's two segments that I wanted to play that are pretty good tonight, because I did send Michael an invite and I hope he responds.
Speaker 2:This has absolutely nothing to do with the previous comment about pompous and arrogant assholes. No, it doesn't.
Speaker 3:It doesn't yet. Yeah, because Michael Knowles he was just on Tucker Carlson comment about pompous and arrogant ass. No, it doesn't, it doesn't yet, it doesn't yet. Yeah, michael knows, it was just on tucker calls. You deal with us. I'm talking about people on our level, like there's a. There's a difference. You know, when somebody's on your level and and they're acting that way, like I get it. Michael michael's in a different stratosphere than us.
Speaker 3:But there's some really good stuff in this interview with Tucker Carlson. I do think it was one of the better Catholic interviews that Tucker has had. Michael kept bringing it back to Catholicism. He did way better than Bishop Barron. And then there's like a 10-minute segment that I think everybody that heard is like oof, all right, but I get it because I mean you're on a, you're having a conversation with somebody that's not Catholic and I get the um, the difficulty in um, like some, some Catholic teaching is difficult, right, I dealt with this when I was talking with my in-laws and the way I learned that you you deal with it is go look, this is not me, uh, doing this. Um, oh yeah, he says he never checks those.
Speaker 2:But come on I mean, I, margo, did give me his assistant's email listen to me every.
Speaker 3:You make it like he doesn't see his dms. Everybody sees it. He told the story on tucker about how he dm'd um norm mcdonald. Like everybody checks their dm. Stop it, come on, he doesn't have them open, he only follows a couple thousand people. You say like I've I followed around 2 000 people. I get a few enough dms that I'm able to check my dms. Come on, that's an excuse that people come up with so that they could get away with pretending they didn't see what you wrote.
Speaker 3:Everybody sees their DMs. I guarantee you, if somebody important DMs Michael Knowles, he's going to respond to it. It's a silly thing to say he doesn't see. If he didn't follow me, that's different, because then it goes into that back folder. But he follows me. So yeah, the tricky part, like having those hard conversations, I've found the best way to go about them is to just say look, I'm going to give you what the church teaches and I'm a loyal son of the church. These are things that are difficult, that I don't have any control over. I can't tell the church to teach something different, but this is what the church teaches. If you want me to tell you what the teaching is, I will, and that's how I've gone about it in my experience to you know, people still get a little hot and heated because they're like oh, so you're saying I'm going to hell. It's like no, I'm not saying you're going to hell.
Speaker 2:The church is saying you're going to hell.
Speaker 3:The church is teaching and I just am Catholic and I'm not going to not be Catholic because I don't. You know, I think it's mean because I I think that is one of the difficult things about having conversations in modern culture is you can't be mean to people, right? So I mean. But I also know that I was just on with uh nova sort of watch, and people were critiquing that conversation because they weren't pushing on me hard. So, like when you're in a friendly conversation, you don't want to bring something too contentious up and make it unawkward and make it awkward and things like that.
Speaker 2:So I watched, uh, kevin's response to yesterday.
Speaker 3:That was good yeah, oh right, it was very good. Yeah, kevin, kevin did a response video and I'll be honest, I haven't watched the actual conversation, yet I really I'm dude, I really I think, I think I'm awesome guy. He's just like a genuinely nice guy, so I I really do like him, um, but okay, so why don't we jump into the first clip I put in there, rob?
Speaker 2:before we do that, I just want to, um, bring up the the shirts again. So I actually got one of my one of the protect catholic kids shirt on our store. So, uh, I think I put it in the it's in the description of the video. But, um, for those of you who don't know, we created a Protect Catholic Kids shirt with the help of what's his name, keith, keith Nestor. That guy and all the proceeds from sales of these shirts go towards the Annunciation Fund for Hope and Healing. Or, basically, it goes to the parish and kids that were affected by the shooting at the Annunciation uh fund for hope and healing. Or, basically, it goes to the parish and kids that were affected by the shooting at the annunciation hey, and now we're not.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're not getting anything from that. So if you guys want to actually support the show, buy one of the other shirts. I'm just saying rob's always not wrong people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I want to support us buy something else yeah, we actually make money on yeah, yeah, so we have other shirts on here too that we actually make money from. Yeah, but no money from these will go to us. It goes directly to to the families and so far we've sold like 80 shirts for uh for an 800 worth of donation so far you guys really do step up when there's a good cause at hand. Uh, but you know, joe, I think they, I think they do.
Speaker 3:I can't say for sure, but I think they do the new merch store is on point like people are getting their stuff now I got.
Speaker 2:I ordered this what today's, what thursday? I think I ordered it last friday or monday.
Speaker 3:So yeah, the new merch store is on point, so if you guys order stuff, you're going to get it. The last one was like people were waiting months and didn't come through. I'm like very good job picking that new store. So, um, all right, let's jump into it, cause we we do have Charles frown coming on in 10 minutes.
Speaker 2:Okay, so which one am I picking here?
Speaker 3:Uh, the first one I put in um is why Gen Z is becoming Catholic.
Speaker 2:Okay, we'll we'll do the website after Molly. Molly, look in the description of the YouTube video. It is in the description.
Speaker 5:Okay, here we go instinct has been for the last few years that physical reality does really matter, even as I feel like I've had a heightened spiritual awareness and the dead, certain knowledge that there is a spiritual, an unseen realm that is acting on us all the time and that that's as real as anything. I sincerely believe that, but on the other hand, I do see a lot of like ignoring of the physical reality around us.
Speaker 7:Yeah, this is why, by the way, you know like everyone's becoming Catholic now You've noticed a strange phenomenon. Yes, I think this is a big reason why it's people. The decline of religion has tapered off. Other denominations and traditions are growing, but Catholicism in particular is exploding. Why? I think it's because it's a sacramental theology. I never would have called that, isn't it? Yeah, 20 years ago, could you imagine?
Speaker 5:At all, certainly not. No, the spotlight series had just come out and you're just like. This church is too corrupt to continue and I'm not. I just want to say again I'm not Catholic, but I strongly agree that there's a revival, and I just see it all around me.
Speaker 7:And I think this is why you know I mean the. The words that the sacrifice of the mass are uh, this is my body, which will be given up for you, you know. And uh, which is which is mocked. You know the phrase hocus pocus, like in magic, is a mockery of hocus danum corpus meum. This is, this is my body, you know this. Uh, at least that's a popular etymology and I'm persuaded by it. So there's always this mockery in all of the kind of false religions, there's always this mockery of the real sacrifice. But in a lot of religious traditions and I don't cast aspersions I had a Baptist grandpa. You know the Knowleses come from Maine. Actually, this is the ancestral homeland of the Knowleses. Amazing, yes, yeah, I haven't made it up very often, but a lot of Puritan in the wood.
Speaker 5:A lot of us had ancestors in Maine and it's you know they left.
Speaker 3:The whole interview was kind of like this, where pretty much everything Tucker would bring up, michael would bring it back to these little things about Catholicism. And another really good quote he got was from Fulton Sheen, where Fulton Sheen said if you wed yourself to the age, you will become a widow in the next. And it was just like that is what the church did in the 60s. They wed themselves to the age of the revolution and now the church is a widow, essentially.
Speaker 2:I saw a quote today on Twitter. I forget who it was from. The quote itself was Chesterston, and he said something to the fact of the saint that converts the age is the saint that is most unlike it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, or something along those. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, we've talked about that too. How, like, how, how the the fool can like point out the absurdity of things going on. You know like, we talked about like, like, uh, with saint francis and stuff, but uh, pull up ali beth, stuck, stuck, stuck. These tweet. I dislike her. I do too. That's why I want to bring up her tweet. Um, she wrote the popular narrative. So this is solely because she watched Knowles on Tucker. The popular narrative is that Catholicism is booming, but this is not true. According to Pew, for every one person joining the church, eight people are leaving. This has worsened since 2014, when every one person that joined, six people left. This study has been cited by the catholic sources, too, who who are willing to honestly face the position the catholic church is now in. So she goes on and on. She starts citing the pew study, but she actually cites salmons without name.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, but but see how she framed it. The popular narrative is that catholicism is booming, but that's not actually the narrative that we all are aware. The church is in decline, we know parishes are closing and everything is in decline. The narrative is that Gen Z, when they find faith, they're not going to Protestantism, they are going to ancient Christianity, whether that's Eastern Orthodoxy or if that's Catholicism.
Speaker 2:And largely, when someone leaves the church, they're not going to Protestantism, they're going to nothing. They're going to nothing and they're not actually leaving the church. They haven't been at the church in years. They're just now not identifying as Catholic, that's all.
Speaker 3:So so. So Allie is correct about people leaving the church, but I but the narrative that she's trying to frame. That as that's not the narrative and that's not whatucker and michael were talking about. They were talking about gen z coming into the church and the thing is, protestant gen z is in this technological realm where everything is fake, everything, and they're looking for something deeper and transcendent and they're just not getting it at these protestant services with these preachers making these big you you know whatever, these big shows of their church services and things like that. So what they're doing is they're going to find something transcendent and you do not find that transcendence in Protestantism, you only find it in traditional Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. And that really is the conversation going on in the culture.
Speaker 3:I mean, andrew Wilson has been going on Crowder's show, so he's been talking to whatever the producer over there's name. Tim Gordon's going to go on that show too to discuss the Catholic position, but he's talking about icons and the guy's like Gerald is an idiot. Gerald is an idiot, but Gerald is like. I knew that when I actually like crowder, even gerald is like um, one place you guys lose me is on icon veneration and it's like but gerald is thinking about these things, right, and he understands. Like protestantism is silly. He's just still hung up on those protestant attachments where they think that's idolatry, right. But but he, he's. He's in a place where he's going to be swung by the argument we're going to keep Charles in the green room for another two minutes. I want to play the other clip before we bring him on.
Speaker 2:Get over to that real quick here.
Speaker 3:So this one is Tucker. It's really a Tucker clip, him explaining to Michael his feelings about Pope Francis, and it's just interesting because it kind of shows up like one of the main things we've talked about on this show.
Speaker 5:Yep, yeah, the best thing I ever heard from a practicing Catholic in the last five years I was. There was no one around who was a very close friend of mine and I and he was going on about Catholicism. I was like, okay, but that pope is just, I just can't. I won't even tell you what I said, but it was hostile because that's how I felt. And he goes are you sure, you're not?
Speaker 1:catholic yeah it was the greatest thing ever he goes.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I totally agree, but he's not the worst pope we've had. Yes, was it completely non-defensive? This happens.
Speaker 7:It's like. Let me tell you about the 9th century.
Speaker 5:I think that's right. If you want to win people over, don't be defensive. Yes, totally Don't tell me that there's no, that what I'm seeing isn't real. Yeah, yeah, be honest, of course. Of course I mean it is Okay, but I don't know that. I've talked to too many Catholics about Catholicism. Maybe they all feel that way, but I thought that was just a wonderful response.
Speaker 7:Totally, you know. We have to remember that the Pope is.
Speaker 3:This was the thing that kind of jumped our show off with the Lofton thing, because Lofton was criticizing me for whatever he was and I said don't tell me I'm not seeing what I'm seeing, because what you're asking me to do is on par with like pretending a man is a woman. That's the level of cognitive dissonance that's going on here. Like I see what I see, I'm not crazy, I know what I'm seeing, and gaslighting people is not helpful to the situation. So your best bet is to actually say, yeah, all right, things are a mess, but in reality I mean we've had popes in the past that toasted the devil. Like we've had popes that you know had orgies with whatever.
Speaker 2:Francis might still be the worst. Yeah, he still might be the worst.
Speaker 3:But you know you don't hide from that stuff. You just address it and you say, yeah, he's terrible. What are you going to do? You know it's still the church Like. The church isn't, isn't changing. So all right, we're going to. I meant to have a half an hour for that conversation, but I do think Michael did a good job. I think there's probably one segment that he's going to catch criticism for, and that was the extra Ecclesiam Nullus Alice portion and discussing Vatican II. The funny thing is I almost as he was saying it, I'm like I sensed he didn't even believe what he was saying, like he. He knew what he was saying he was going to catch grief for, but he was just pitching the vatican two line yeah, the company line basically company line.
Speaker 3:He was just pitching, but I felt that he was saying it with shame, like it was. It wasn't nearly as bad as baron telling shapiro that you know, christ is the privileged way. It wasn't that bad, but he did water down no salvation outside the church but, in fairness, so does the entire hierarchy. So, all right, we're going to bring Charles on. It's been a while since we talked with him. Let's bring him on, charles, how are you brother?
Speaker 3:Fellas good to see you again, hello, Were you able to hear us while you're in the green room. Yeah, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:Oh, all right, I was sitting there in silence.
Speaker 1:I was ready for you.
Speaker 3:How have you been man? It was amusing. Did you happen to catch that interview at all?
Speaker 8:No, I rarely have time to watch podcasts unfortunately.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say you strike me as somebody who doesn't like keep up with stuff like that and I kind of burnt out on all the you know all the stuff going on in the church.
Speaker 8:Now I like to just research. Uh, you know, pious the 12th and backwards, just to and backwards that's a healthy way to go about life.
Speaker 3:I would imagine it's like uh, it's good for your spiritual life and your soul. But, um, this, this most recent book I thought was actually really interesting, would you? You went back and you researched uh powerful saints in exorcisms, what exorcists want you to know. So this is basically uh discussing um some of the saints that exorcists call upon in their exorcisms.
Speaker 8:Yeah, it actually tackles so many issues, so many traditional teachings that a lot of people are clueless on, like merit, hierarchy in heaven, authority, patron saints, liturgical feasts, so. But yeah, so it was the. I co-authored it with a friend of mine, patrick O'Hearn, so it was his idea. He's written a lot on saints and I've Patrick O'Hearn, so it was his idea. He's written a lot on saints and I've written a lot on spiritual warfare, so he had the idea let's combine these two things because this is a reality. People who keep up with exorcists hear them talk about these saints showing up and like, what does that mean exactly? We talk about that showing up in exorcisms and that reality is just amazing. The exorcisms and that reality is just amazing. The fact that the saints that we're so devoted to, that the church depends on her liturgical year revolves around they're active in this ministry.
Speaker 2:When you say they show up in exorcisms. What do you mean by show up?
Speaker 8:Yeah, I think it's very important, one of the things that we got clarified for ourselves when we first started doing the research interviewing these exorcists. One of the first things and I was kind of clueless with this, it just glossed over in my research for a long time that one of the first things the exorcist does in an exorcism is pray the litany of the saints. That's one of the very first things and there's a reason. So they intercede, they show up, they're called upon immediately. So it's the practice of the church to call upon the saints for exorcisms, for this whole work.
Speaker 8:Then the showing up part is not a vision to the exorcist, typically not a vision to the possessed, though they can sometimes detect something's happening. It's the demon. The demon and the possessed person sees the saint and cries out it's a weapon. The saint becomes a weapon, just like the sacramentals are weapons. The saint is there as a victor, a warrior, untouchable to the demon, someone who's already conquered the demon, is in heaven and saved now. But they'll appear somewhere in the room sometimes and the demon will scream and identify, never by the name but by some kind of dismissive or belittling, like that bearded one for Padre Pio, for example.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what was that? What was the most interesting story you came across doing your research?
Speaker 8:yeah, I would say well, there there are a lot, let me pick one. Well, one of the things that was really interesting is that a lot, let me pick one. Well, one of the things that was really interesting is that a lot of the modern saints. You know, surprise, surprise, a lot of the modern saints are the ones that are showing up the most. And showing up means to answer your question a little more. Is they just their influence is felt.
Speaker 8:The exorcist may have a relic, there may be a connection. We can talk about why you call upon certain ones, but when the saint is named you see the reaction like, oh, that saint somehow has a connection here. That's how you know. But I think one of the most interesting ones is probably St Joseph, to pick from many, which was great. You know, terror of demons. Hopefully he's showing up Some of the saints you hope exorcists are seeing.
Speaker 8:They're not always seeing. It's kind of up to God, obviously, who's going to show up. But Father Ripperka relayed this one and we pulled that into our book. That St Joseph manifested. I think the possessed person saw him walking around carrying a staff and smashing his staff on the ground repeatedly, and every time he smashed his staff on the ground. The demon and the person felt it would just, you know, shriek with terror. The surge of fear would just go through the demon and the possessed person would feel it and then tell father what's going on. But I mean not just a subtle, not a subtle apparition of apparition, but a subtle interference intervention, but a big one from, did you?
Speaker 3:did you, uh, did you interview um contemporary exorcists for the book?
Speaker 8:we did, we um. So we pulled from like videos, published articles, but then we interviewed a lot of living exorcists. Some wanted to be anonymous, some were willing to be public. But we also pulled from a book that I recently published. I got to publish the Latin, the English translation of the Latin text for Flagellum Daemonum. It's a 16th century spiritual warfare and exorcism manual that was popular for 300 years all throughout Europe. It's called the Scourge of Demons in English and Father Menji, he was the father of the exorcist art. So we pulled from that book because he talks about this happening. One of the things he instructs exorcists to do is to ask the demon who the primary saint is that he fears the most. And the demon has to, you know, eventually, under pressure, reveal that name and then the exorcist uses that name, that saint against that demon. So this idea of like the nemesis, that certain saints are pitted against certain demons, has been around for at least 500 years.
Speaker 3:Yeah so he's asking if St Mary Magdalene comes up.
Speaker 8:Yeah, she has. Again, we interviewed, we had the count. Let's say we interviewed like seven exorcists or pulled from seven or eight exorcists, maybe nine. That's a small sample and I think if we were able to interview all of them we'd find so many stories, because one exorcist would have these stories but not this saint. The other exorcist would have these other saints. There was not a lot. There were some commonalities but a lot of differences. So St Mary Magdalene has shown up or been utilized, been called upon for issues where the possession case has to do with impurity, with sexual sins, and that's that patron saint. There's that quality, that aspect. If that saint conquered the vice that got this person in trouble, then you call upon that saint and there's a great efficacy there.
Speaker 2:You said that it seems like some saints are pitted against certain demons that have been, like you said, sometimes for centuries. Is there a specific reason for that, and does it have anything to do with that saint taking that demon's angelic throne in heaven?
Speaker 8:Oh, that's a good question, yeah, demons. Angelic throne in heaven? Oh, that's a good question, yeah. So as I talk um, I don't know if we talked about slaying dragons, but just a little little plug in slaying dragons, this is the first book that really got me started um, interviewing a bunch of exorcists compilation the teachings of exorcists. There is that that point being made. We talk about it in the most powerful saints and exorcisms as well. One of the reasons demons hate us and there are many reasons, but one of the reasons is they know that the saved, the elect, will take their places, that they had thrones offered to them, thrones of glory. Should they just say yes at their test? But they said no and they forfeited all of that. And we're going to get it, the elect will get it. So when they sense that we are on the way to salvation, they despise us even more. So when we escape their grasp and obtain, like the saints do, to, one of those thrones, then the fear factor just skyrockets.
Speaker 3:We've we've talked about this on the show. Like it took a while for me to fully grasp the under, like the concept of those thrones, and it was really through studying the early church and how there would be a demon's presence in an area and when they would bring certain saints' relics to that area, the demons would flee. Or if there was an oracle, the oracle would stop prophesying things like that and then that saint's relics would then become the patron saint of that city and that saint's spirit would actually cover the city and it would be like a new principality that was actually the governing principality of the city.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cities went from having patron pagan gods to having patron saints.
Speaker 8:Yeah, and that power, the way you described it was great just then, anthony. And there's one. There are some feast days. One priest pointed this out to me when he was explaining the importance of relics is that some of the feasts that the church has is the transference of a relic from one city to another. There's a feast day for that because of what you just said, because the city that's inheriting that relic is about to inherit an abundance of heavenly blessings from this patron saint, and the spirit of the saint, like genuinely the spirit of the saint, would then kind of become the principality of that city.
Speaker 3:And then you'd have those feast days. I mean, we see, kind of in european culture they'll have these crazy feasts where they're marching around with the, with the statues of the saints and stuff, and that really is an inheritance that they're receiving from the spirit of that saint and it's a, it's a it's. It's a it's. It's something they passed on through generations. We rob and I did a whole, uh, like a whole segment because we watched this cbs clip about mount. Was it mount vesuvius, rob? I think it was. Do you remember? I think it was mount vesuvius and the saint, the saint, that, um, that they brought in, that that saved the city like that, spared the city from mount vesuvius.
Speaker 3:And to this day, that saint still, they still have this beautiful cultural enable, yeah well, yeah, and it was like it was just such an awesome thing to like really grasp what was going on in that whole thing, because I don't think they teach us that in, you know, in catechism class, and unless you're picking up books like the one that you just wrote, you really don't, we don't really don't get that kind of catechesis yeah, it was saint genero saint genero was thearo. It was the San Gennaro Fest, yeah.
Speaker 8:Yeah, I mean, this is one of the things I try to do with all my books is dig up all these old teachings. So much is not being handed on. It's really beyond bizarre. But you made me think. One detail about the relics that I learned is that it's logical If you really think about the power. The power of the relics is logical. So we are created body and soul. We are not meant to die. It was not what God willed, so it's a violence. St Thomas Aquinas actually says that we are not a man when we're dead, because the soul and the body are separated Soul's in heaven. So the souls of the saints are yearning to receive their bodies back.
Speaker 3:They're learning for it.
Speaker 8:Yeah, desire that resurrection. They're kind of unsatisfied, so wherever their body is on earth, like they're keeping up with it, and there is that connection, there's the connection from the soul to the body and, like you were saying, then you sense the spirit, the presence, the act of spiritual sanctifying presence of that saint over wherever the relic is, especially a big city.
Speaker 3:Yeah, over wherever the relic is, especially a big city. Yeah man, I feel like we've just totally lost the understanding of that in modern culture. We're so materialist at this point.
Speaker 2:Materialist and egalitarian right. That's one thing I feel Protestants have such a hard time with is this thought that even in heaven there will be those that are above you and those are going to be the great saints, and it's hard for us to think of them as sitting on these princely angelic thrones when they are, you know, people who, most of them in many ways, committed some sort of you know sin in their life, and that they've attained something that maybe we won't, even if we do make it to heaven.
Speaker 8:Yeah, St Jerome is clear I can't remember where, but he's talking about that issue that there is this diversity in heaven. It's like, basically, how dare you think that when you die, you're going to be equal to the apostles? Yeah, yeah. Being thrown is then like no.
Speaker 3:Yeah, rob, that's such a good point because it's almost like the modern christians have gotten this understanding that even even catholics, they think, well, as long as I die in a state of grace, like I'll just go through purgatory I'll sneak in I'll sneak, I'll sneak into purgatory and I've made jokes like that and things like that.
Speaker 3:But in reality we build treasure in heaven, right, and? And heaven is a kingdom. And to think that there's not a hierarchy in that kingdom that extends well beyond Christ, Our Lady, the Holy Family, the apostles, like that extends down and you start to see like you don't want to be I mean, yeah, like the least in the kingdom of heaven is still greater than anybody who isn't. But you do want to try to attain treasure in heaven in this life.
Speaker 8:Yeah, that's one of the reasons that this book, I think, is so fascinating. It's about the saints. It's about recovering all of the theology around the saints and that we should strive to be like them, that we would essentially waste our lives if we do not strive to to rival them. To rival the saints in heaven not the apostles or some that are out of our grasps, but the rest is up for grabs are nine choirs of spirits in heaven that the demons fell from there.
Speaker 8:fires of spirits in heaven, that the demons fell from there. There's all this Mary, and God wants us, he commands us to fill our lives with good deeds and he wants us to reach these heights of of heavenly glory. And and we, we got to try. I mean, we know how to try and the saints can help us, they can lift us up there.
Speaker 3:Um, we do have some super chats, so we will get to those, I know.
Speaker 8:I know people were uh, uh, oh boy, don't read bobby's. I know, I know I don't have that one. Yeah, that's funny. You should be out with each other in works of charity.
Speaker 3:What is? Saint paul said something like that. Um, stop calling it the green room. That term is for ghostly, that's a silly one. Uh, okay, I just had my rcia interview today. The catechist is a woman, uh, and me not to receive Holy Communion, kneeling? I said nothing. What do you make of all this stuff going on in modern RCIA programs and stuff like that, charles? It's like I mean, we see the bishop in Charlotte taking away people's ability to kneel and we do have that article in here because he's now demanding that children be able to be eucharistic minister, whatever that word whatever that means yeah, so what do you?
Speaker 3:what do you? What do you make of all that?
Speaker 8:hard to say.
Speaker 2:You know hard to say we're gonna be a drop, that one on a man. You.
Speaker 3:Well, charles is trying to be political correct. That's what I understand. He wants to be part of the diocese.
Speaker 8:Right, my diocese. I have been doing things to help the faithful in the diocese. We're all banding together. But I remember Pope St Pius X and maybe you could know where I'm going from there but he warned about modernism. He warned about modernism in the seminaries, and then we see the progression of that. It was unchecked, it was unstopped and then it was unleashed, like 60 years ago, and now we're seeing the fruits of it. So that's what we're dealing with how to stop it.
Speaker 8:You know, one of the things in the back of the book it was kind of the chapter eight of the book. We're talking about Most Powerful Saints and Exorcisms is called A Renewed Devotion to the Saints. This was a naturally emerging chapter, in my opinion, from my memory of how we wrote the book. It's all about rediscovering their power, their ability to intercede for us, their ability to share their merits with us, share their virtues with us, share their graces with us. We need to call upon them. There's a power, there's this dormant power that needs to be awakened and Pope St Not St Yet, but Pope Pius XII talks about this Like there are certain graces waiting that Christ is waiting to give the world and he will not give them until we pray fast, do good deeds, stop whining about the burdens and sufferings of this world. Then he will unleash all of these graces, and that's one of the things we're trying to do in Charlotte too. There's this push during the month of Our Lady of Sorrow.
Speaker 3:Oh, you're in Charlotte, yeah, why didn't you think he was hesitant? I didn't know you were in. I'm sorry, Charles.
Speaker 8:I didn't mean to put you on the spot. I thought you knew how about that. No, he thought you were just being a a-hole. I'm not that rude. Oh my goodness, I would have never put you on the spot like that. We got to make this video, you know, entertaining people, no.
Speaker 3:I went.
Speaker 3:I went on a pilgrimage to Italy in December and, um, the whole trip really can be, uh, described as an encounter with the saints, because throughout this whole pilgrimage we went, like we, we saw Eucharistic miracles and things like that, but every time we would go to a tomb of a saint, somebody on that pilgrimage would have an encounter that was like shattering for them my wife, it was, um, saint claire, and uh, like everywhere we went, somebody encountered a saint that they just like they would melt and they're, they would just start weeping and things like that, and it it was.
Speaker 3:The whole thing was just because I remember coming back and saying we really should do a series on the saints, because I felt like one of the cool things is when, especially when you're going to Italy and you're going to these ancient churches, the language that they use around the saints, like they describe it as worship. Right, they're saying like his worship began or their cult began, because we're afraid to use those words now, because we're afraid to offend protestant sensibilities, but it there, there really is a cult that develops around a person that lives a life of extraordinary virtue and and like our true devotion to that person and that's what even elevates them to to the beatification process and the canonization process, and we've just lost all sense of that and I think that there's there's a there's something about, when you fall in love with the saint and learn about them, that Jesus really does grant little favors to you because he wants you to know your older brothers and sisters and the faith that came before you.
Speaker 8:Oh, yeah, yeah, he definitely rewards us for following his advice. You know, there's a reason he advises us and his church, which is his mystical body, teaches us to call upon them. I mean, if you look at the the um, the colic, the opening prayer and all the prayers for feast days, for saints, you see, the church relies, depends, depends on the help of these saints. Without their help, we cannot. You know, X, y, z like, with their help we can do these things. So we need to, and then a grace is given. There's, there's so much grace available through these saints. Yeah, and I was. I was was mentioning Our Lady of Sorrows.
Speaker 3:Somebody actually said the Our Lady of Sorrows book is available from his website, so it was sold out on Amazon.
Speaker 2:I think they're asking to ask if it's available.
Speaker 3:Yeah, ask if it's available on your website, because it's sold out on Amazon.
Speaker 8:That's unfortunate. Well, here's the book. Yeah, our Lady of Sorrows, it's a compilation of the teachings of St Alphonsus the Gory. I'm surprised it's sold out on Amazon. I just checked before the show, so check again. Maybe it's not, maybe it's the hardcover versus the paperback. I have ordered some so you can preorder on my website, slayingdragonspresscom, and I should be getting in a week. Bad timing to run out during her month. It's such a powerful book.
Speaker 3:All of your books are great, charles. I'm not even kidding. We don't actually interview authors. We turn almost all of them down. But when Rob told me you wanted to come on, I was like, let's get Charles on.
Speaker 2:I think I got the email the day after we talked with Joshua Charles about the princely thrones of the saints or something like that Good timing yeah it felt like good timing.
Speaker 8:Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 3:Exorcists used to be a minor order. Does this mean that lay people non-priests were doing exorcisms back then?
Speaker 8:Yeah, this is a really important point. So in the early church the rite of exorcism well, doing exorcisms was not bound to the priesthood. In the early church it was actually like a charism. So there are two ways you could merit the ability to perform an exorcism. One you were a priest, given the authority and commissioned by the church, and now that has to be the case where you have to have permission from your bishop to do an exorcism, to do the rite of exorcism.
Speaker 8:But another way to drive out demons is to be a saint, and some of the great saints would drive out demons simply by being around possessed people, by just saying a prayer. Like there's a St John Bosco. He has a great story, I think I have it in my Slaying Dragons book. There's a possessed girl in the pews of a church and St John Bosco came out of the sacristy to say mass and as soon as she saw him, the demon fled and the possession case ended. And St Catherine of Siena, you know a third order Dominican the exorcist would send possessed people to her because they could not end the possession. It wasn't working. So they sent the possessed person to her and her mere presence, her simple prayers, her dismissive commands against the demon would drive the demon out. So you do have that diversity. Even now, if you're holy, demons will run away.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when somebody lives a life of extraordinary holiness, they're able to do supernatural things because their life is so similar to christ, like you, it's. It's funny because when you read the gospels and you hear about jesus performing these miracles, that like they sound so wild, but then you you think about padre pio was able to bilocate and you think about padre pio was able to pray for somebody and they would be, and it's like, of course, the son of god was able to just do whatever he commanded the world to do, you know.
Speaker 8:Yeah, and I often wonder about that because, as we're all talking, you know we're all weak. I think this culture makes us men especially, really weak. And we're not educated, so we don't know what we have, what the powers in the church we have. But we all need to do more, like there's the possibility that we could be miracle workers. Like St Louis de Montfort says that in the last days of the church, in the end times, the greatest saints will emerge, the ones greater than all the ones that came before them.
Speaker 8:What if we're in that age? What if God wants to wake up in us, the supreme holiness? Are we doing the work, supreme holiness? Like are we doing the work? This is why things like what's going on in charlotte and other parts of the world right now call us to penance, to real, powerful penance. But I preach this message a lot, but it's hard. It's hard for me to even do it. But that's where the holiness is, the saints. Look at them. They were extreme mendicants, very austere, very penitential, and if you don't do that, if we don't pray with that, we're're not going to make it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's one thing. To talk about this stuff is another to put it into action. Right, Do you know if everyone has like, like we all have a guardian angel? Do you know if there's a demon for every person too?
Speaker 8:Well, there's a, as I discussed in slaying dragons, everybody's assigned by God's decree a guardian angel. But then if we happen to have a guardian demon, a demon assigned to us, it's assigned by Satan, who has no authority, so that demon can be removed, can be driven away, can be swatted away like a fly by your guardian angel. So your guardian angel is there all the time, he's never going to leave, he's going to escort you to paradise, but the demons can be driven away. So we don't have a demon assigned to us except by the kingdom of satan, and you can block that um, this is, uh, not really related, but I think it can be related.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't know if you did any looking into the connections that the shooter of the Annunciation shooting had with satanic anarchist groups like the Order of Nine Angles, 764, I think, or 746, one of the two. So I was wondering if you'd heard of any either of those groups at all. So I was wondering if you'd heard of any either of those groups at all.
Speaker 8:And then also, like if you knew of any particular saints, someone you know who was maybe struggling with the issues that the shooter had. You know any particular saint, someone like that could pray to you? Mean the oh right, the demonic affiliation, or the mental, certain mental issues, Both, Both, I guess. Yeah, yes, I did not hear about those two groups. As you all know, I did a lot of work for my two occult books. So just you know, plug one here, the Rise of the Occult. I also have the Occult Among Us. I did not.
Speaker 8:I eventually had to stop the research. As you can imagine, it can get really dark. Occult among us. I did not eventually just stop the research. As you can imagine it can get really dark. So I didn't go. I didn't run into those two groups. I probably could have if I kept going.
Speaker 8:But the one saint that jumps to mind and he's in that book, the rise of the occult, and he's also in the one we're talking about today is blessed Bartolo Longo, who, it seems, will be canonized soon. He didn't have the same mental struggles but he had the demonic issues. Remember, he was a satanic priest, consecrated satanic priest, who eventually had a massive conversion and became a saint. He knew popes, I think Pope Pius X. He may have known maybe XII, I can't remember when he died.
Speaker 8:So his canonization could be huge for the church because that elevates the prestige he has in the church, militant, Our attention to him. He's already a saint, he already has his reward in heaven. But our attention, our focus, our connection to that, by honoring him as a saint, could unleash a lot of grace for those people lost in the occult. Because the occult does disfigure the mind, the body, the soul, everything, just complete perversion, complete inversion. A lot of the problems we see today, moral problems in our culture and our world, are a lot of times are tied to the occult and they do share a same morality with occult morality. So it's, it is a very dark.
Speaker 3:John, I don't want to. I don't want to put Charles on the spot with that one because he's in a touchy situation in Charlotte. I'll say for myself I have gone to an SSPX Mass, but I don't want to put Charles in that spot For an ad spot. Yes, direct message Rob on Twitter if he follows you. If not, send him an email. I just moved from Queens to Charlotte. Any recommendations on where to attend Mass or who to connect with, that's for you, charles.
Speaker 8:Yeah, so Charlotte, if you're in Charlotte you are close to so many great parishes. So say, uh, st Anne's in Charlotte and St Thomas Aquinas. That's where I go. We have still, for four more Sundays, the traditional Latin mass uh, 1230 and 1130. To check the mass times, st Anne's is 1230. St Thomas Aquinas is 1130. I don't know if they're advertised, because you remember that weird rule from Francis and then that will continue in October at least.
Speaker 8:October 2nd, the Feast of the Guardian Angels, is when it stops. How about that? Isn't that nice, that's interesting.
Speaker 3:Isn't that nice.
Speaker 8:But yeah, st Anne's, St Thomas Aquinas are two of the great ones. We have a lot of good ones, a lot of great priests.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and there's also an SSPX down there too that we attended when we went.
Speaker 8:That's in Mount Holly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, every year I ask a patron saint, ask a saint to be my patron for that year. The saint usually picks me first via some sign. Robert has a good question. Does everyone have a guardian angel, or just baptized Christians?
Speaker 8:Yeah, Every single human being on the planet ever, ever created. You have a guardian angel because God destines all of us to be his children. Most of us don't. There are a lot of children of God in hell, unfortunately, but most of us don't make it to that adoption and a lot of us don't make it to heaven, but everybody does have a guardian angel. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay, so Charles did say he's going to fly around nine o'clock. Okay, so what is the name of the new book? It is.
Speaker 8:Yeah, we get that book up. The most powerful saints and exorcisms what exorcist wants you to know? And actually I'm glad you brought it up. I do have eight copies of this book on my website, slaying dragons presscom. These are the only signed copies, signed by me, that are available because Sophia published this one. I've published six of my own, but Sophia published this one, so any book you buy from them or Amazon is not going to be signed. But if you get it from me, there are eight copies. It's up now on my website and I'll sign them for you. Is there a hardcover version? As, as I know, there is not. But check sofia and all I have are paperback. Check sofia and amazon. You'd think they would. I don't know how they operate. I always do a hardcover too, but there are always extra costs involved with hardcovers um, charles, thank you for coming on.
Speaker 3:Man, we, honestly, you guys, pick up any of Charles's books. You're going to be happy.
Speaker 8:Thank you.
Speaker 3:Slaying Dragons is a legendary book. At this point Everybody should have that one. But anything you pick up from Charles is going to be good. And yeah, like I said, we typically don't interview authors because but we did have Patrick O'Hearn on also For his Courtship with the Saints book, courtship with the Saints Courtship with the Saints. So tell Patrick. We said hello, we will. Yeah, so all right, we'll get you on for the next book which I'm sure you'll pump out in the next three months, because you pump out books constantly.
Speaker 8:Yeah, I've got several coming. This keeps my apostolate going Awesome.
Speaker 3:All right, charles, thanks for joining us. Brother, thank you, have a good night have a good night take care um. Yeah, he's always fun. Yeah, I like supporting him.
Speaker 2:It's like, uh, yeah, there really are very few like, because sophia asked us all the time right yeah I I get emails from sophia and tan um a lot and you know they're they're all good books, which is why we can't do them all it's not just that, it's if I haven't read it I don't know what questions to ask, right?
Speaker 3:but like, like, charles's books are pretty. You know, they were pretty easy to ask questions of charles. I didn't even have his chapters out or anything where and it's different if you're interviewing an author where you've read their book.
Speaker 2:Or I've talked to them a few times.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, but you know typically it's. And also if you make the show about the author and the book, you don't use it. Like even when Taylor came on, when we put his book title, like people thought it was just going to be an interview about his book and they missed a good interview because that was a lot. That was a really good interview with Taylor, but you're better off titling it something else and then you wind up getting more viewers on it. Now tonight's show we talked about Knowles and Tucker, but I really think we should have talked about Frad and Scott Hahn.
Speaker 2:I did not watch that.
Speaker 3:I watched almost all of it and I can't believe how apocalyptic Scott Hahn is about the situation in the church Really Very similar things that I've said about it, in that a lot of what he was suggesting is that the current hierarchy, and even the pope, are prefigured by the, the high priest and the sanhedrin in the old and in the old right. So when we see these betrayals by the hierarchy, it shouldn't surprise us, because we've seen this before and that's always how I kind of understood the passion of the church is, by seeing that, as the type like understanding, the high priest betrays Christ and the Sanhedrin, they convict him. And to see it happening in our own church shouldn't surprise us, because it's actually the story and how it's playing out, and I think um, I think, if not, that we'll ever be able to get scott hahn because we're blacklisted from anybody that's ever had any kind of notoriety I knew, we knew we were gonna get back into this anybody, anybody that's even remotely notable in that world, refuses to talk to us.
Speaker 3:Um, but if I ever got him on, I would want to run just remember we did choose to be the heel of catholic media that's fine, but come on man, come on man.
Speaker 2:It's coming from our and now we're gonna be trad ink too.
Speaker 3:Man, we're gonna be the worst let me tell you something it's gonna be glorious when, when we're so big that they want to come on our show because they want to promote their thing, and I go. You didn't help us on the way up. Now you, you pretended you didn't see my dm on the way up, or or, or where you were on our show seven times and never I I had to have scholars on. Oh, you need scholars on your show, do you scholars? Yeah, that's on for the other side.
Speaker 2:We're doing that on the other side I'm not doing it as in theologians, not inner city you you draw cartoons, bro.
Speaker 3:You won't come on our show. You, freaking, draw cartoons, clipping, are you?
Speaker 2:kidding me sorry that's gonna be a classic. You were so loud, your mic decided to turn itself off. I'm serious. I'm serious. I saw the thing read out. It's just oh, it's coming back now oh, oh, it was totally off.
Speaker 3:No, not completely but Did you at least hear what I said?
Speaker 2:A little bit.
Speaker 3:All right, good, I'll do it. On the other side, I love the Scott Hahn. The whole thing was about the apocalypse and the Antichrist. It was amazing. Yeah, me too. Me too, I would have liked to like him.
Speaker 2:No, he's.
Speaker 3:Irish. I don't even care, we'll do it on the other side. I'm not even talking about him, he's just one.
Speaker 2:He's the one that said Ant off though you just Honestly, I've just had it about him. He's just one.
Speaker 3:He's the one that said, he's the one that said antelope, though, you, just, you, just like, I've just had it, like I, honestly, I've just had it. If I had a show, I'd have you on jd's thanks.
Speaker 2:Jd jd don't. I thought you did kind of. I mean, granted, it was having your daughter taste mres, right, so I understand not having us on that.
Speaker 3:But listen, let me tell you something about seamus. He married a girl from my parish and didn't get aunt's permission. No, but like you married a girl from my parish. We've met you. You really like you. Oh, you're too good for like, I don't care. Piss off, have all your cartoons, I don't care. I'll never ask again. I'm not, I'm not doing that, I don't care. I have like, I have like a um, a limit to where I can be pushed like. It's just like enough enough, enough's enough. And there's others, there's others. There's people that have been on this show, people that have been on this show that I just, like you, are so pompous. Oh, my God, all the people that we work around, like this man. It's, it's sad. I'm telling you some. Some kid DM me two days ago and he's like hey, man, like we would love to get you on. I'm like all right, yeah, I'm like, I'm busy the next few weeks, october, the guy's got 200 subscribers. It's like I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't understand why people think they're so important like now I'm have to read no, you're right. Did I get back to zealots den? You should, because people well I know like you said we need to tell them we're busy till october. I just don't remember if I did that. If you're watching this and I didn't, I'm sorry I'll.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we ought look the next several weeks are mayhem for Rob and I, between the baptism going to Detroit, between I booked a show with Catholic Unscripted on Columbus Day, like there's so many things going on right now. So you guys got to like anybody that does ask, but even look, even if somebody said to me, to me, hey man, I'd love to come on, I'm just busy, like that would be enough for me, like, but don't pretend you don't, you don't hear me, don't pretend you don't know who I am you know what?
Speaker 2:we don't need them. We had gibson, we had mel but that's the point, right.
Speaker 3:Oh, gibson came on our show. That that's a guy that has an a-list hollywood celebrity, mel gibson, sted down. He was humble enough to come on a show, on some no-name show, when we had what 8,000 subscribers or something. It's not rejection. It's more like people love the esteem of men and it's like, oh well, I have to make sure the people I associate with are esteemed men as well, so that people think highly of me. That's what I don't like. Yeah, send horse heads If you guys haven't realized.
Speaker 2:This show is Anthony's therapy.
Speaker 3:This was not supposed to be on the YouTube side. Let's go to the other side. We can't do this.
Speaker 2:Everyone on YouTube over over here. Before you leave, watch the video I play before we end the youtube portion because it is awesome. So anything else to say before before I play this we go.
Speaker 3:No, we'll play that, and then I'll continue my rage on the other side, because there's plenty more man.
Speaker 2:Okay, guys, enjoy this all.
Speaker 4:Come to the peace of heaven and earth. Come to the table of the empty. God will provide for all that we need here at the table of dainty.
Speaker 6:Oh, come and sit at my table when saints and sinners are friends. I wait to welcome the lost and lonely to share the cup of my love. Come to the feast of heaven and earth. Come to the table of plenty.
Speaker 4:God will provide for all that we need here at the table of plenty I am going to kill him.
Speaker 3:I had no idea what was coming. I had no idea that was coming. I'm going to kill him.
Speaker 2:He is so done he's like thanks to trent, I have a new ai tool.
Speaker 3:And then a few minutes later he sends me that dude, that was the most awkward thing to sit. I was dying laughing.
Speaker 2:I cannot believe he did that with the images of us so first he sent it to me without those and it took about halfway through your portion. I'm like wait a minute, is that Anthony? And then, all of a sudden, my voice comes on.
Speaker 3:I'm like, oh no that was the worst thing I've ever, ever, ever sat there.
Speaker 2:That was real, Not a I said a local said I needed to do the orange posture for that.
Speaker 3:Oh man, we do give you guys your comedy on this show on twitter.
Speaker 2:Today, I had a priest from the netherlands say that he enjoyed watching our show.
Speaker 3:Because, because, because of the joy and the laughter yeah, we move around and we laugh like even me venting about those people, like it's funny, like I'm just blowing off steam. Listen, here's what I'm gonna oh my gosh. Boomer greatest heads. Taffy is a genius. Taffy, you did not disappoint man, Not tonight.
Speaker 2:That was good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm like look, there's just people in this Industry that are I just don't understand it. Like I like I want to be like when we have a guest on, like I want I want them to be my real life friend. Like I don't want to, just like it's it. I don't know, I don't, and, man, I hate when I stutter, like this, but these are people who I like. There's a couple of them that I have like actual conversations with and like they're, they're, they're friends of mine and they would like they'll come on here, but then they don't like we're, like we're not good enough to come on your show, Like well, I'm just saying that Like it's just weird, it's a it's, it's, it's weird separation in their life, right.
Speaker 3:It's. It's because we have a reputation for not being like what rep, like what I don't, I don't I don't know, we did make trent hornsey retard the funny thing is they all like watching it.
Speaker 3:They, they all watch our show. They all watch our show because they know this is what people actually want to sit and listen to. It's like it's one that, look, people actually want to sit and listen to. It's like it's one thing. Look, if you want to sit through lecture stuff, like yeah, that's cool. Like some people like there are times that, like when I sat through Matt Fradd and Scott Hahn today, like I really enjoyed that conversation as a matter of fact, I signed up for the Emmaus Institute to listen to Scott Hahn's five part lecture series on the Gospel of Matthew Like I want to sit through that.
Speaker 3:And there's times where you do want to sit and listen to a lecture series but then, like, if you're just driving or something you just like, sometimes you just want to goof around and sit with your friends and that's what our show is. But it doesn't mean we can't be serious. It doesn't mean I I can't have an elevated conversation. It's I was not like I'm only capable of the goofy stuff. So if I go on somebody's show that does stuff a little more seriously, I will be serious. Like when I went on Catholic Unscripted, like we had a very serious and like conversation about the faith and you know things like that. It's just. It's not like we're just the frat boys. You know, we're a little bit more dynamic than that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're the frat boys in the view.
Speaker 3:We do have a little bit of versatility. So I would think that we would, you know, and it's not even like I, I want to go on because I want it for our show, for the recognition. It's more just like, like extending the friendship yeah like why didn't, why didn't gavin? Go on when I went on catholic unscripted like that. I don't understand why gavin wasn't on that show, that episode, I've had him on.
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, yeah, maybe.
Speaker 2:We all do, come on.
Speaker 3:The Maudsley connection maybe right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know. I think you're never mind. I think you probably have enough of that reputation on your own. Bobby's just a rub salt in the wound.
Speaker 3:I think you probably have enough of that reputation on your show, Bobby. This is just to rub salt in the wound. I also will never go on your show. No, but, Bobby, you'll be at my house or you're meeting me in Pennsylvania in two weeks.
Speaker 2:But to be fair, bobby, you say that now, but once. I mean.
Speaker 3:We do have to get Bobby on Once you're no longer a fed.
Speaker 2:you will be on the show, Don't get.
Speaker 3:Well, we can get him on one night. He'll. Come on, look how many um, the show is the first. A black new yorker and a minnesotan. We are an odd couple. Yeah, we are an odd duo.
Speaker 3:I was getting my hair cut and the kid in the uh chair was like trying to understand the podcast he was. He mentioned that he went to church for some reason. It's very strange how people just like because he I don't, he doesn't know we do a podcast or anything. He was like, he's like. He's like, yeah, my mom went to catholic school and I went to church in bayshore. I went to, uh, saint patrick's day. He's like the church is so beautiful. But I went to a spanish mass and like, he's like. And then he was talking about marriage and he's like, you know, my friend got married and it wasn't in a church and I and I told my, I told my girlfriend, like when we get married, we're getting married in the church. Like the kid knew enough to like you gotta get married in the church and stuff. So I'm like I I started telling him like I do a podcast and he's like, oh, you do it with someone. Like, yeah, I do with my friend rob. He's like. He's like. How do you know him?
Speaker 2:I'm like, you know, I'm from twitter, like lives in minnesota he played a weird trivia game on my podcast right at the start of it.
Speaker 3:It was like explaining to people how I know you is always weird, like people are like wait, your friends from minnesota, how do you know him? You don't from church or something. I'm like no, like it is. It is really hard to explain. It's a weird thing that, like, we ended up doing this show together.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, um boy I can't wait for all the minnesotans to have to deal with you in a couple weekends me too me too.
Speaker 2:I mean jake, jake gonna be there, jake lives in kansas oh, he does yeah I mean, he grew up two houses down from me, but he lives in kansas now, so I don't think he'll be there I was tempted to say something to him on twitter the other day and I was like, no, I might have to see him at rob's if, if jake were to watch this. Jake, I love you, buddy, you'll always be a like, one of my closest friends.
Speaker 3:I try not to look at his twitter yeah, I do too, but like sometimes I'm just like what, I don't know what the point of this is. Like what are you doing? Like you're just like you're spiraling, brother, like why cares more people who cares how long bug hall is going to be on twitter yeah, like if somebody here's what people have to grasp, like if. If you're finding yourself getting annoyed by someone's tweets, mute them, mute them. It's very simple. Molly had me.
Speaker 2:I was wondering how long that would take.
Speaker 3:You are, so you are the worst. Yeah, seriously, just mute. Mute somebody so that you're not seeing it, because if it's irritating you don't let. I've never gotten mad from Twitter. I mean, I'm sure I have, but very, very rarely will I get mad from somebody's tweets. I'll just ignore it.
Speaker 2:Oh, that pop culture kid though.
Speaker 3:I'm trying to think of anybody, I'll get annoyed by man. What'll actually get on them? Nothing really gets under my skin, though, like like you know, who annoys me is that shane shates all guy. Oh, shane shates, all that guy is living in novus ordo boomer fantasy land. That guy, like Like him with his Leo, has just taken a picture with Cardinal Burke and he's taking a picture with James Martin. Now he has a big decision to make he either has to endorse the God of James Martin or the God of Cardinal Burke. It's like dude.
Speaker 2:And then the pictures of him with the Israeli come out today With the Jew guy today. The Jew guy. That's whyavin will not be on with you what's his name?
Speaker 3:herzog, herzog or something, whatever. His name is the, the, the shane shatesell just lives in this good and he's a convert. Of course he's a convert. I'm not trying to knock all you converse, but man, sometimes you guys I don't know sometimes you guys I can tell within two tweets someone's a con, if someone's a protest.
Speaker 3:Every time they're a convert. Yeah, 100, it's just. It's like the, the he's. He's going to have to choose and make it known. Does he believe in the? Because james martin and cardinal burke believe in two different gods. One god is this way and the other god is this way and he's going to have to make it. And this is going to cause a schism in the church. Dude, stop it. None of that's going to happen.
Speaker 3:Shane, everything you've ever tweeted has been wrong, wrong this not only is leo not going to choose between burks and martin, he's not even going to acknowledge he took the picture. He's not going to choose between Burks and Martin, he's not even going to acknowledge he took the picture. He's not going to acknowledge what James Martin said. He's not going to acknowledge anything.
Speaker 6:Never let someone take your picture with a Jew guy, you know what it is.
Speaker 3:Okay, so here's what it is with. Like. Okay, so here's what it is with. Uh, converts they.
Speaker 2:They fall in love with the church and they fall in love.
Speaker 3:They fall in love with an idea of the church the pre-conciliar church is what they fall in love with typically. Yes, they, they fall in love with what the church taught before the council. And then they come in to the church and they don't find what they thought they were going to, but they just they're like I have to be obedient to the pope because I have to be, that's like, because usually the papacy is a very big thing for them coming in because of the authority issue, right and when you get young guys who fall in love with the crusades and come in and find out, it's all Queens and Susans.
Speaker 3:It's like. So I understand it. That's where it's coming from, where I think for Cradles. We've just been immersed in Novus Ordo land our whole lives and we're just like this sucks and it's just what it is. It is what it is Like. I'm not going to get myself worked up because this cleric is not preaching the truth anymore, because I've been around it forever. Where.
Speaker 3:I think they're like. No, the Pope has to make a determination on this, because the Pope is the chair of Peter and it's like man, I've been through too many popes at this point, boys, I've been through too many popes at this point to believe that, at this point, any popes at this point to believe that, at this point, I just kind of think what scott hon was saying today is very accurate that these, these men are the, the. You're going to see, um, like. You're going to see behavior similar to what you saw in the first century, where you're going to see the hierarchy betray our lord think of it in our.
Speaker 2:In you, our whole lives, you and me. The best pope we've had was the one who abandoned us yeah, pope benedict by far he was the best one we had best pope by far.
Speaker 3:I still love benedict, despite his failures. You know I still do have like a, a real love for benedict I have a painting of him hanging on one of my walls yeah, he, I mean look at by a set a, which is interesting, ironic. Yeah, that is interesting. Um, lauren, actually you know her, does he have a? He should have made it put a marlboro in his mouth.
Speaker 1:I will send it back to her lauren, I want a marlboro if you're watching I will send it back to you if you can.
Speaker 3:I want him smoking a heater I freaking changed my pfp to ben.
Speaker 2:I hate it when you do that I'm like, who the heck is this guy?
Speaker 3:so many people thought I was pope respecter like, because I didn't realize pope respecter has leo smoking a cigarette? Oh, does when I. So when I put ben, people were like dude, I thought you were a Pope respecter. So I go to change it back and Twitter wouldn't let me change it back Like. Your account is under review because once you change, your picture.
Speaker 2:Your account is under review.
Speaker 3:For a while, yeah, for like five days, and I went to change it back and it wouldn't let me for like six hours and I was stuck with the stupid Pope respecter, pfp, and I'm like this ain't gonna work. I think did they mean Pope Pius XII. Pope Pius XII is pretty good.
Speaker 2:He's probably making a young Pope or the new Pope?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's true. What did we have to talk? Mrs homemaker says I was? I was confused at my first mass because it didn't look like the movies. However, I've never been an annoying convert twitter person. Yeah, it is very like specific to twitter and stuff. It's um, it's the same thing with when I encounter annoying setes. The couple of setes that I had a conversation with were very normal. I had a good conversation with it, but when you're encountering people on Twitter, you just get the worst side of people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, 75% of people on Twitter are artistic to begin with. So yeah, that's true. I mean, I'm not saying I'm not necessarily one of them, but um.
Speaker 3:What was the story you um? Oh, no, no, no no, you know what we have to do. We have to do carlo cutas's mom and that wacky priest, father, uh blunt. Yeah, we got to do father blunt. That do carlo kudas's mom and that wacky priest, father, uh blunt. Yeah, we got to do father blunt, that wacky priest, what he? Let's play that video amazing we should?
Speaker 3:we should read rachel's comment because she's I mean, she said it, but I was thinking the exact same thing what she said, but we we should read her tweet because it's it's very well done.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm bringing up the crazy video now. We should read her tweet, because it's very well done. Okay, I'm bringing up the crazy video now, so I had never heard of this priest. Wait, I've met this priest. You've met this priest. I met this priest. So apparently he claims that in the past he's met the Antichrist face-to-face, right?
Speaker 3:the past. He's met the antichrist face to face, right um. When I met him, this was before, like traditional catholicism. Like for me, this is like 2017. I met him, he prayed over me and he said you need to be praying and fasting for your father. That that was this priest.
Speaker 2:That was this priest, you've told this story before. You need to be praying and fasting for your father.
Speaker 3:That was this priest. That was this priest Because you've told this story before, you need to be praying and fasting for your father. He told so my cousin Eddie is. His wife was Protestant. Eddie has a conversion with me. We both convert. We both have our reversions.
Speaker 2:Wait, no, this isn't the. Is this the? This isn't the? No, the this isn't the pre this no, okay to continue the story.
Speaker 3:You have so many stories there, so eddie is talking to his wife about catholicism and she's on the fence, but she's having a really hard time with things like padre pio. She's like I, you know, like I just like seeing like the miracles and stuff. It just kind of like if she was having a really hard time grasping from her Protestant like things that she was still holding on to, kind of like Gerald holding onto his icon thing. She was having a really hard time with the saints, but specifically Padre Pio. So I go, the priest prays over me and says that to me about my dad which is wild, yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:And then when Eddie's wife goes up, he goes Padre Pio wants you to know you're his spiritual daughter and he's praying for you. Which was dude. It was kind of weird. Just saying Now that has nothing to do with anything he's about to say here, because what he's about to say here is a story of hearsay from a crazy lady. I mean, I don't know, she might not be.
Speaker 2:I mean, I know what I said to you privately, but I wasn't gonna about to say that publicly I don't, I don't know she is.
Speaker 3:I I misspoke and I don't want to besmirch a woman I feel like she's a mother living through her death let's let's play the video and then we'll get into our breakdown of it.
Speaker 9:I believe that's this generation coming up now it can't get much worse, amen. I hate it when people do that. So there is a prophecy, a new prophecy that came out just a couple of years ago. Apparently, st Francis of Assisi appeared to a holy woman not too long ago and he told this holy woman just a couple of years ago in Italy that when the new teenage saint Blessed Carlo Acutis. Have you heard of Carlo? Unfortunately. Do you know that?
Speaker 9:Francis appeared to someone and told her. I won't tell you who she is, but she just might be Carlo's mother. But I won't say anything right now. And Francis said to this holy woman when Carlo is canonized, god will fulfill prophecies and send the Holy Spirit over the youth of the world to sanctify them. Amen, alleluia, alleluia.
Speaker 3:Shut up. Now Rachel for TLM on Twitter. Let me find that she said the woman who, so what you're saying is the woman who spent 250,000 getting her son canonized just happened to get.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, no, no. That's you wrote that, oh OK.
Speaker 3:Where's her actual tweet on this Right?
Speaker 2:No, it was not connected. Oh, man, because I saw, I saw that tweet, because you responded to her tweet and then, I quote, tweeted the original. So hold on.
Speaker 3:Well, you read yours because it's basically what she said. It's like very similar to uh. The woman who spent 250 000 getting her son canonized just happened to have a vision of St Francis of Assisi, the woman who herself admits that she had no religious devotion prior to spending that $250,000 to get her son canonized. I'm going to try and find Rachel's tweet, because let me see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you look for it.
Speaker 3:She actually tagged us in it. No, that's right. That's how I in it.
Speaker 2:No, that's right, that's how I saw it First off. Do you know why his mother and father don't share the same last name? No, I don't know either. I try to do some looking today and there's nothing that says they're divorced. I just didn't. Is it an Italian thing for the mother not to take the husband's last name?
Speaker 3:I don't think so. I've never heard such a thing. Why am I not? Maybe it's in replies. You got to probably look under replies. Let's say replies.
Speaker 2:Well, it should be in my notifications at some point.
Speaker 3:I get too many notifications to find it I was going to say, a lot of people got mad at me for that tweet. I get too many notifications to find I was going to say a lot of people got mad at me for that tweet, so my notifications are filled with that. My notifications are always maxed out Like they're just the art there.
Speaker 2:Uh well, you, you upset people.
Speaker 3:Pretty often Um man, it's such a she has such a good tweet. I feel bad not reading it.
Speaker 2:I'm, I'm still looking. She has such a good tweet. I feel bad not reading it. I'm, I'm still looking you. You talked, you're good at talking.
Speaker 3:Just I'm good at talking, so all right, let me talk a lot.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you're good at it something really weird about that, father james blunt, while you're looking for it. So I, we, we went on this retreat that he was like the main speaker at, and they kept trying to get us to follow this flame of love devotion where you, you inserted a phrase into the hail mary while you were praying the rosary. So it was like, um, it was like hail mary, full of grace, the lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women. Blessed is the fruit of thy womb, jesus, and send your spirit and flaming love. And then you had to continue the hell, the hell, the rest of the hell, mary.
Speaker 3:It was so awkward, the, the actual phrase they wanted us to put in, and it was because somebody had a private revelation that our lady wanted this phrase inserted into the hail Mary. And it was the most awkward experience of trying to pray the hail mary with this phrase put in. And every single person that went felt weird about it. Like it was like, almost like like some spiritual intuition was telling me never to insert this, this phrase, into the, into the rosary. It was a very weird experience.
Speaker 2:But there were the, there was that whole strange incident with him saying so very profound things what I'm about to say is in no way, just to be clear to everyone, is in no way me claiming the man is influenced by demons, but demons would have access to that information and could give it to someone. That is interesting. Now, what would demons accomplish by saying something that brings your cousin cousin's wife, into the church? I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, look, I'm not, I'm making no judgment on him at all. I'm telling you some very good things that happened with him. And then I'm telling you some very good things that happened with him. And then I'm telling you some really strange things that happened with him, you know. And now what he was doing there was relaying a story that carlo's mom told him. It's, it is kind of strange. And, rob, rob, I don't know if we should actually say that to you no, let's not, let's not, let's's not, let's not.
Speaker 2:I won't say exactly what I said to you, but this is just me, to me, and I don't know much about his mother other than her influence on this canonization process. But she seems like a mother whose child suffered a lot while young and died young and she copes, or or prevents herself from coping, by well she could find this canonization process she could find look, her son died of cancer, right, and maybe she's finding some meaning through this process, right, like she, she's like she.
Speaker 3:She really thinks that it's her purpose to bring some meaning out of that suffering that she thought was so senseless in the moment. You know, I, I could see that it's just so.
Speaker 2:I've read some more things from that she has said to reporters today. That also just could just be her just so. She claims that two of their relatives are also saints, apparently, carlos maternal, great, great great grandmother, is the saint, not canonized, but she's canonized, oh, canonized. And then there was someone else long before that that's a saint, and one of the weird tweets I saw today was someone claiming that obviously, sainthood runs in this family's blood. It's like that's not how that works, that's not how that works.
Speaker 2:That's not how that works, but it's just this woman seems very attached to the need for her son to be a Canada.
Speaker 3:Saint, yeah, I can see.
Speaker 2:But look, and I'm not saying it's not understandable in some sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, or that she's necessarily wrong.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, it's just an interesting thing. Somebody said why haven't I asked Milo on?
Speaker 2:Would you?
Speaker 3:guys want me to get milo on. I don't know if I mean.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I'd want that. But I don't know, I wouldn't want that either.
Speaker 3:I think it would be a good show. We're gonna be wrong. Interesting, it's just entertaining the only thing is, I'm afraid, to get close with milo, like in that, like not that because of whatever, I'm afraid, taffy, taffy, I'm afraid, because if he turns on you he's the most psychotic mother ever on the planet. Dude, like he is so volatile, like if he becomes your enemy, holy crap, that man literally will find anything in your life to just use and milo I know you're working on getting less and less gay.
Speaker 2:That's one area of your life.
Speaker 3:You're still kind of gay and like he, will like what he's, what he's doing to james lindsey, even the thing with fuentes. That's what that's kind of why I stayed away from it, because I really don't want to start a war with the freaking groipers. It's like the Groipers will go nuts because he's at war with Nick right now and I don't want to step in the middle of anything like that.
Speaker 2:See please don't get Milo, but getting Nick Fuentes on will be fun.
Speaker 3:What's crazy is I like both of them. I really do. It's one of those. I think Nick is freaking funny, like I know a lot of people get mad at me when I say that I just think he's funny, um and, but I'm not stepping in the middle of that. Be like whatever. If they sort that out, maybe I'll think about it. But um?
Speaker 2:aurens is right in the chat. Like what are you worried about?
Speaker 3:you've aired out all your blackmail already on the channel yeah, but I've aired it out in this, in, in private, in here, with people I don't think dislike us, like I really do have a comfort when we talk to the local side that like I don't think any of them we haven't, we don't, we're not big enough yet where enemies are in our locals trying there was the one time, but he's a friend now. Who's that? Which one? Eric McCabe? Oh yeah, that's right. Did you ban him, though? Didn't you ban him from locals? I think you banned him from our locals.
Speaker 2:I did, but I think I might have undone that?
Speaker 3:Okay, that's good you should. How about Caviezel? What to get him?
Speaker 2:on. He'd be too hard to get. I don't know.
Speaker 3:We got the metal connection I do want to get father monsley back on. Yeah, um, I definitely want to get him back on. Uh, he did. You see, we got a cameo in his last video he said we got three three cameos. In his last video he he showed uh our conversation with eric sammons. Did we talk about?
Speaker 2:the jews, yeah, remember and eric.
Speaker 3:Eric took the. I thought we did that on locals we did, but I think he follows us on Locals. Father Moseley watches our Locals. Father Moseley loves us dude.
Speaker 2:I know, little heads up next time, father, you're going to take. Locals.
Speaker 3:Just so we know. Yeah, no, it was a short little clip. I don't have a problem with that, and he asked me first he sent me the clip.
Speaker 3:first he said you okay, he did send it to me for pre-approval and I said yeah, absolutely, because I do think eric has just a very libertarian approach to this question and everything he sees. He kind of sees everything through a libertarian perspective. He does, and I think it clouds his view on it. So if, and father mosley was very charitable in his father mosley's is never anything but incredibly charitable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know how he wasn't it wasn't like he was torching eric or anything. He was addressing what eric said and he went about. Great, it was absolutely no problem, um no problem.
Speaker 2:Oh, did we put the Samuels clip up on Twitter?
Speaker 3:Oh, probably, probably. Yeah, maybe he grabbed it from there. What's interesting is I do I do agree too much with people when, when they're like. So when Eric said his thing, I was like, yeah, of course, of course. And then I said, but, but I did agree to what he said. So it sounds like I'm agreeing with what eric said, but I really wasn't. I was like, yeah, of course, but like he cut it off before the butt. Um, uh, father maudsley likes nick too. Yeah, uh, I thought you guys put the set. Yeah, we did all right, we read that. Um, eric loves like, uh, dave smith, which I like dave smith too, but he bases all his political stuff on that, on that realm, and I understand people going that route now because things are so hectic. But libertarianism is just moral degeneracy.
Speaker 2:There's no. There's no long-term solutions there.
Speaker 3:It's just moral degeneracy and they don't like. They Dave Smith's come around a little bit on that and understands now you like you do kind of have to legislate morality and stuff like that, like the. The whole conversation about legislating morality is so silly with libertarians because they they don't like acknowledge that all laws are morality, like all laws are morality all of them.
Speaker 2:Even their idea of of libertarianism is like it's their moral moral yeah, it's their moral code that they want to enact.
Speaker 3:It's like everyone has a moral code like we. It's. It's silly to say you can't legislate morality and james james lindsey that with this stupid uh, uh. Power is not a christian virtue. Laying down as a doormat is not a christian virtue.
Speaker 2:Allowing evil to take power is not a christian virtue I mean, first off, I don't listen to what is or is not a christian virtue from an atheist anyway.
Speaker 3:So who's screw off, not just atheist, somebody who, who publicly said I'm going to pretend to be a christian and and and, pre and and tell Christians they're not being moral and they'll have to listen to me. The guy's a clown, so but the idea that, like these little slogans that people like to throw out there, it's just silly. So, no, the father James Martin is a guest. No, I don't think James Martin will ever be on here. I would talk to James Martin. He'll never talk to me, but I would talk to him.
Speaker 2:You should go up to him on the street.
Speaker 3:That would be interesting if he's ever at that gay parish in New York. Should we do the soupage thing?
Speaker 2:I can't think of anything else we want to talk about we should do soup.
Speaker 3:Bitch that pansy, he's gross he's terrible.
Speaker 2:Do we want the full article or just the tweet?
Speaker 3:oh uh, somebody reached out about advertising on avoiding Babylon, where?
Speaker 2:on my twitter. They DM me. I guess you don't follow them.
Speaker 3:Somebody reached out about advertising on. Avoiding Babylon when.
Speaker 2:On my.
Speaker 3:Twitter.
Speaker 2:They DM me I guess you don't follow them. I follow less people than you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, way less. I'm excited to meet Adrian Fonseca Tuesday.
Speaker 2:I haven't met any of these other people in person. Yeah. I've never met Kennedy.
Speaker 3:I met.
Speaker 2:Kennedy, I met Flanders you know about. You know about flanders? Oh, that's right, actually, actually, uh, someone in our telegram group, using just the information that it flanders was involved and it was a new catholic platform, did some google searches and found the website. We've dropped enough hints at this point, you guys want to find out.
Speaker 3:You'll know.
Speaker 2:He told the full telegram yeah, he sent the website to the telegram I mean look it's coming out soon. Um, yeah, I've never met kennedy or flanders, or cavazos or, or um, or adrian, or. I don't even know who the Marcus guy is. I've never met Kowalski.
Speaker 3:Obviously You've met Kowalski right, I've met Kowalski, I've met Kennedy, I've met Flanders. You've never met Holdorth, though. Nope, why'd you say that? You should have said that, that's like the big secret? That one's the big secret. Oh no, we just blew the big secret. That one's the big secret. Oh no, we just blew the big reveal.
Speaker 2:Landers has said the actual name in his podcast. I did not blow any secret, yeah, but nobody knew. Kowalfnetski's bio is right next to ours now.
Speaker 3:On the website. Yeah, I don't know if Holdworth is. We did say two Canadians. I'm trying to to get panty later bobby clipped, leave it to the bed yes, we're gonna do another call-in show for sure.
Speaker 3:Um, I might make that weekly on the new platform I was gonna say I think that probably needs to be a new platform I think we, I think we're gonna do that for the new platform because it's a, it's a way to get people to want to join it, because they'll want to be on the show, and then we'll release the best clips of that on youtube. So, um, we'll do the call-in show on the new platform and then we'll do the best clips that those will go out as clips on youtube, um, and we'll see, like, if rob gets guns and rosaries going and that goes over there, then I'll do the, I'll do the interview stuff on my own, if I have to.
Speaker 2:Dr bryant says he had dinner with dan last night and dan's okay with pies pelican being out there. Okay, good, if he knows dan and pies pelican as names, then yeah, he probably actually did have dinner with them.
Speaker 3:I enjoyed the call-in show too. It was fun to get to meet you guys. I'm hoping to get guests for that. That, in case you guys have theological questions, like I would like to have Joshua Charles on as a guest for that. I would like to have Brian Holdsworth on as a guest for that. I would like to have like Michael Hitchborn on, like I would have like um michael hitchborn on. Like I would like to get get all of our show friends on as calling advice. We'll get tim gordon on one episode for you guys that are on that are dating. You want dating advice, things like that. We'll get wagner on wagner. Yeah, I would like to. I would like to recruit. I I have a list of people I want to recruit. I'm hoping eventually everyone's over there.
Speaker 2:Like that's the hope, like all of the people that we like are over there so the idea is that the names that are available on the website now and holdsworth, I'm sure, will be on there, like there's going to be a core group of what they call founding collaborators or contributors, but the idea is to create a platform that any catholic creator can, can, can, upload, contribute, can contribute and publish and and bring their, their content to and then the idea is that the monetization should hopefully be better than what youtube and rumble and such is cannot, because rumble offers literally nothing.
Speaker 2:Um, I think we've made three bucks there ever.
Speaker 3:Somebody's asking why we've never had Anthony Stein. Anthony Stein's been on several times. I've been on his show.
Speaker 2:The big problem with Anthony is schedule.
Speaker 3:Yeah, anthony goes to bed at like 5 pm and he wakes up at 3 am or 2 am. So if I have a day off, if I have a day off, so if I have a day off, if I have a day off, I can I, I tell anthony stein, joe mclean, and they'll have me on their show in the mornings. It's just timing for them. They're both of their shows are in the morning, so I'll. But those guys I, you know, I consider both of them friends. Joe mclean I have regular conversations with. Oh, that's something we could talk about. We're aiming for end of January, early February, before Lent, to do a men's group meetup. So it's going to be me, rob myself, michael Hichborn and Joe McLean. We're going to probably limit it to 100 people. Obviously, locals will get first dibs at that. We're going to try and limit it to about 100 people. You guys will get first dibs if you want to come. We don't have a spot picked yet. We're going to come up with a theme for it.
Speaker 3:We're all going to give half-hour talks because we want to make the whole thing about hanging out and spending time together and getting to actual personal connection, yeah, actually meet each other and talk, doing spending time together and getting to, like you know, like actual personal connection, yeah, like actually meet each other and talk with each other and you know, have a cocktail together, smoke cigars together, that's like that's because every time I go to a concert I can't wait for the talks to be over so I can get to hang out with everybody conference concert.
Speaker 3:I said, yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, um, yes, and I certainly will be drinking. I'm actually not drinking at the moment. My wife and I decided to do a mini Lent where we gave up drinking and fasting, so we're doing like a little mini Lent right now by the baptism yeah, not that it has to be.
Speaker 3:Look, I it's um, we, we just we were like the summer was just too much splurging on too many things, like just various things. We were just chill, like it wasn't even like a set day of 40 days or anything. We were just like let's just, let's just chill out. So the last couple of weekends we went out, we didn't, we didn't drink, we just you. Sometimes you just got to chill out with that stuff. You can feel yourself getting, you know.
Speaker 2:Tyler as of right now, I have no plans of going to band, not with the kids.
Speaker 3:You're not going to be able to make that. I don't think so. It's just too many things coming up's.
Speaker 2:What I mean, like like I'm yeah, I'm using my only available time off to go to detroit. Yeah I'm cutting out a day early, earlier than you, because of it.
Speaker 3:Rob, obviously, is invited to anything that we do. It's. It's just hard. He's got rob's in a very different place than I am right now. He's got little kids running around all over the place and newborns coming.
Speaker 2:It's just mean it's been a municenter. First swear word the other day, oh, from my mom.
Speaker 3:It's amazing, it was hilarious there's nothing not funny about kids cursing it's terrible, but it's always so funny you can't help but laugh at it. It's amazing. Um, um the uh. When do your uh? When does your vacation time?
Speaker 2:build up again. I like, I accrue like half a day every two weeks.
Speaker 3:So so you really have to not take off for a while to get any sort of to get any time off.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's harsh. That's not like it resets at the new year, no, like I'm out of vacation time. Everything I'm taking off for I'm just like I'm so for for the baptism I'm coming in saturday morning, yeah, and I'm leaving sunday night at 8 pm. Yeah, I'm going to get home at midnight and then have to go to work at 4 AM. I'm going to get home at one 30 in the morning. I'm going to try and sleep on the planes.
Speaker 2:The best I can do it's like like me going to Detroit. By the time I get home what Wednesday night, it will be 2 AM and I'll be at work the next morning and I'll be at work the next morning.
Speaker 3:I mean not as early as you, but I'm thinking about even I'm leaving from LaGuardia. I'm thinking about taking separate cars from my wife and just going to the yard and sleeping in my car, because to waste that two hours of driving from LaGuardia to my house is a 50-minute ride, and then the same thing in the morning. That's two hours, Like if I land at midnight. I just go right to the yard the yard is five minutes from la guardia and I'll just sleep in my truck. My wife will not be happy about that because she'll have to drive home from la guardia at midnight and I don't like the idea of her doing that either. Maybe I get a car service for her you have a son, my son pick her up maybe or something.
Speaker 3:yeah, he's not gonna like that picking her up at midnight. Well, I have a guy that I work with, um, that I trust that I would put her in a car. It's not like a Uber, like I would right that I would trust driving her home. But and it's more trolling Joe McLean during his show. I do do that a lot Like if I'm at work and Joe's's on air, I'll troll joe's show in the chat. Uh, will y'all ever have a conference? Uh, that will include both men and ladies. Also, do either of you attend the father ripper, your sportish warfare conferences in pomona? I have not not the father ripper thing, but so look the the. The first thing we're going to do is just try and get men together, but I absolutely think we should do a men and women meet up and let everybody bring their wives and do something like that.
Speaker 3:Like Nicole would love to come, I'm sure Hope would love to come and we'll get all the wives.
Speaker 2:And the new platform, because there are going to be women involved with that.
Speaker 3:So there, will probably be women, women. We're hoping to do a yearly conference with all the people joining the platform so we'll have a yearly meet up for that and the place that we're we're going to be doing it also has, um, like a very affordable place to stay when you're there. And, yeah, it's very, very well set up for that kind of stuff. See my list bag. Don't have them on hold up. I'm not getting involved in any of that stuff between them ever. It's not worth it. No, I don't know, I don't care, but Milo does follow me and he comments on my stuff an awful lot, so I know he's aware of me.
Speaker 2:I knew that comment was coming.
Speaker 3:You see, you guys all starting in I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't know, I don't care if somebody's funny or if somebody's entertaining, I like them.
Speaker 2:What time we got. Do you think in other people's chats they're like someone's like? Nah, ant's a fag.
Speaker 1:No, no, Ant's a real nigga.
Speaker 3:Drop the N-wordword not the real one I would like to have jake on. I like jake I. One of the things I tease joe about is when, whenever he has me on, I'm like, oh, I'm happy to be back on jake's show. I really do like jake. He's a good dude. Jake is uh, is jo Joe McLean's producer. I would love to get Gavin McInnes on. I want Gavin McInnes and Anthony Cumia on separately Hard R next time.
Speaker 2:No, guys, come on, I'm still cancelable.
Speaker 3:That is true. You better hope nobody clips that one boy.
Speaker 2:To be fair, the stuff that would get me fired is not that stuff. It's the the Jew guy stuff, as you would say oh, we never did the super story.
Speaker 3:We can do that. We'll do that Monday. It's getting late, I need to get some sleep. Yeah, because we're doing a show Monday, because we're going to Detroit Tuesday.
Speaker 2:Adrian, I guess we're not doing a show Monday.
Speaker 3:I mean, unless you want me to join you guys for guns and rosaries that I forget what Adrian was planning. I'm totally fine not doing a show. I gotta be honest, we could just we're doing a show from detroit. Well, maybe.
Speaker 2:Well, that sounds like not us, but there's definitely. Yeah, there's definitely going to be stuff recorded in detroit, um, and I'll be home early enough to do the thursday show I mean, even if it's super late on on Tuesday, after everyone gets a couple drinks in them, they're not going to care if we jump on live.
Speaker 3:No, we're definitely going to do it. You know what? That's what we're going to do Tuesday.
Speaker 2:We're going to get Flanders and Cavazos blasted and do a live show.
Speaker 3:So on Tuesday we're all getting there and the first event we have to do is cocktail hour, like the whole thing's got an itinerary and it's gonna, and we're all joining each other for a cocktail.
Speaker 2:I'm getting maddie of this. This sunday we're gonna go shopping after mass. I'm gonna get him, I'm gonna get him, like a little tux, to wear him a three-piece suit. Yeah, yeah, three-piece suit also bad news um, I I did order a couple suits for me to bring with just FYI to Detroit, in case they require it.
Speaker 3:I'm not wearing a suit. Nobody told me nobody told me.
Speaker 2:I have to wear a suit you saw pictures of that hotel though it is very nice, it's very fancy.
Speaker 3:I will dress well, but I am not wearing a suit. You know what? I'm sending nicole out to go get me some nice, nice outfits. She went when I went to the catholic identity conference. She went out and picked some nice stuff out for me. She's good like that you didn't wear a suit I'm not wearing a suit. Get the hell out of here. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Enoch. Oh that, Remember that.
Speaker 3:When he told you oh, that's right.
Speaker 2:Guys, we're going on somewhere nice. Do you think I should go put on my suit? Yeah, you really need to.
Speaker 3:You really need to Like dead serious? Forget it, rob. We're all wearing suits, like every one of us are wearing suits.
Speaker 2:Rob goes. Forget it, rob. We're all wearing suits, like every one of us are wearing suits.
Speaker 3:Rob goes, gets his suit jacket on, he comes out. He's the only one in his suit, only one. He's hilarious dude. He does a good deadpan, he really does. He does a good, just deadpan straight face like he'll tell you something like dead serious, and he's just totally lying out.
Speaker 2:His ass must be an Iraqi thing oh man, he's funny.
Speaker 3:We gotta get him over there too. We gotta get everybody, everybody we like we want, over there, because we want this to be like the alternative to Catholic Inc. And, yes, they're gonna break my chops and call us trad Inc, I don't care, let them. We're never selling out, we're always going to be us.
Speaker 2:Who do you think they're going to have, say mass he has a priest coming I know he has a priest, I don't know.
Speaker 3:That would be interesting. It'd be funny if it's like a terrible Novus, ordo, nick and Kennedy are just grinding their teeth teeth.
Speaker 2:You and I are singing a table of plenty um who's trying?
Speaker 3:father blunt that would be amazing. It's definitely not Altman. So what I'm hoping to do is have a Father Maudsley interview in the bank to release on the new platform. That would be a good idea. I think that would be a really good thing to have in the bank for the new platform. Have Deacon Jim there with Father Blunt. Hallelujah. Amen, amen. He says that all the time. Amen, amen. I spoke with someone.
Speaker 1:Amen Amen.
Speaker 3:I hate that.
Speaker 6:All right, we we're gonna wrap this one up, this this one. It's a fun show it devolved a little locals.
Speaker 3:You never know what the hell we're gonna do on local this has been the longest short week the reason we're doing detroit is because of um kennedy, kennedy's wife, uh, pregnancy, um, and kennedy didn't want to fly. He wants to be able to drive somewhere. So he's within driving distance of detroit and so is flanders, flanders, within driving distance of detroit, yeah, um. So uh, dan was trying to just accommodate them. Kennedy wants to be close to his wife, for various reasons, obviously, but yeah, she's going through a lot right now. Keep the holes in your prayers, guys. Seriously, they're carrying a very heavy cross right now. All right, we got fun things in the works. You guys will be the first ones to know any news that we do have coming down the pike. Yep, and Joshua Charles just asked me when I want to do one of those live call-in shows. I'm going to tell him.
Speaker 3:When you have me on your show. I'm going to tell him I only want scholars on. I can't have you on. I should text him that I'm not sure you're scholarly enough.
Speaker 2:Sorry, josh, I already have a very important scholar named Gideon Lazar booked for that.
Speaker 3:I'm literally going to text him that I'm not sure you're scholarly enough. I'm going important scholar named Gideon Lazar booked for that. I'm literally going to text him that. I'm not sure you're scholarly enough. I'm going to line up Gideon. I'm trying to line up Gideon first. You guys want to wait and see his reaction.
Speaker 2:We can find something to talk about until he responds.
Speaker 3:Sent. Let's see his reaction he's not gonna like that, right. So?
Speaker 2:hey, at least josh calls his patrons. What's your guys problem? Hey, at least josh calls his patrons. What's your guys problem? Wait, called us what he, over the last month, he's caught.
Speaker 3:He's actually called his patrons I literally let you guys come on our show. What do you mean? Let you bums on air. He hasn't read it yet. This is this guy's got red receipts on, so I always know when he reads it.
Speaker 2:For the record guys, last time the show had anything to do with someone calling, we accidentally put their phone number up on screen for the whole world to see. So you don't want us to have your phone numbers.
Speaker 3:No, you don't. I think honestly, though, the way we did, it was pretty good.
Speaker 3:I'm talking about when we put it no I know because we were trying to get phone lines worked out. Yeah, and the here's what the issue with the phone lines was. I could hear the caller, rob could hear the caller, the caller could hear rob. They couldn't hear me. So when darren called in, you had the phone line set up, you pumped it through and I could hear darren and darren could hear you because you had the phone line with your mic.
Speaker 2:But, I couldn't put your mic over to the phone line.
Speaker 3:So that was the issue there, so we figured that out, and the way we figured that out is StreamYard.
Speaker 2:But also it had his phone over plastered right there.
Speaker 3:Oh, josh isn't responding. Not fun, anthony and Rob never called Taffy. Taffy. You have to give me your phone number so I can Zelle you your $96 in tips. I got $96 in tips for Taffy and he doesn't have like Venmo or Cash App but he has Zelle. He's done.
Speaker 2:What is he? An Asian boomer, and he doesn't have Venmo or Cash App, but he has Zelle.
Speaker 3:What is he? An Asian boomer. I'm not scholarly enough to get a response from. Josh, oh, somebody did ask. They were like I bought a shirt but I never got it from that thing.
Speaker 2:What's going on. So I did try to respond to them in the live chat but, in case anyone listening or watching ordered something from the old shop through. Who was that? Was that stripe, not stripe Stripe? Is the payment processor Teespring Spring? Yeah, that's right. Teespring spring? Yeah, that's right, if you want to order through there I've tried contacting them for cut for for customers.
Speaker 2:You guys refunds and they will not talk to me. They say they have to talk to the person. I've even given them order numbers and they're like how that person contact us, but, like I've also like, they owe Ant and I 500 plus bucks from January. What the hell is going on? Well, so basically, people submitted orders, those orders, and paid for them. Those orders never got sent out to the customers and Teespring hasn't paid us for those orders. It's like they took the money and disappeared.
Speaker 3:I'm going to call them Good luck, I'm going to call them.
Speaker 2:I've tried reaching them. They won't talk to me about our money and they won't talk to me about our customers.
Speaker 3:I'm going to have to make the call. I'm going to tell them when are you guys located India, india, I'm pretty sure they're only. Oh my gosh, it ain't worth flying to India for 500. Is that what you're dealing with? You're dealing with.
Speaker 2:Indians on the phone? Not even on the phone.
Speaker 3:Just because I can't figure out a way to call them. It's all just live chat. These freaking pajits. These freaking pajits, they gotta be kidding me. I can't believe josh didn't respond what a bum.
Speaker 2:But so far the, the new store seems better. But you guys, I mean you guys have to understand, like, with the amount of merch we sell, like this is the only way we can really do it like yeah we have to go through these third-party vendors that print on demand.
Speaker 2:So when you put the order in, they submit it to another company to print it and ship it. It's all drop ship from who knows where, but you know, we don't have, we don't get the orders to buy a thousand shirts, which is almost what you'd have to do to make it worth it. Right, and that's why these shirts are more expensive than normal too, because they're, they're literally love to sell $15 shirts with avoiding babylon merch on right it's just.
Speaker 2:It's not possible when we're this small these shirts cost 16 bucks before something is printed on them so, because my son can make shirts pretty cheap.
Speaker 3:It's just you don't know.
Speaker 2:You would need a hundred each size that's what it is.
Speaker 3:You don't know what size to order you and then and then the shipping them is going to cost my like. It's just such a.
Speaker 2:It's just that that's just for one design on one color shirt. Think of multiple designs, of multiple colored shirts, multiple styles.
Speaker 3:It's yeah, all right. All right, we're gonna wrap this up. I was hoping josh would chime in, but unfortunately he didn't, so we still did two hours, get your money's worth. Um, all right, we will see you guys, rob. We'll see you guys on monday. I'll be on Twitter if you guys want to talk. I'm never not there Literally omnipresent.
Speaker 2:Literally when he's not there. I'm texting him, are you okay? There was literally one time you weren't on Twitter for 36 hours. What was it?
Speaker 3:You guys are like is Anthony live? What's going on? You weren't answering. I'm like, oh no, if I go away, if I go away with my wife somewhere, I don't want to hear anybody, I just want to spend time with my girl. So that's, that's typically when that happens. But all right, let's wrap this up. I gotta get to sleep, see you later guys.
Speaker 2:Oh wait, hold on, that's the wrong button. Thank you.
