Voice of Reason Breaks His Silence

When a Catholic influencer like Voice of Reason falls from grace, what's the appropriate response from the faithful community? Anthony and Christian Wagner dive deep into the recent apology video from Alex Jurado (Voice of Reason) following his scandal, examining both the genuine moments of contrition and the troubling implications about his future plans.

The hosts untangle the complex web of accountability, forgiveness, and prudence that these situations demand. They highlight a concerning pattern in many reactions – the tendency to equate forgiveness with immediate restoration to public ministry. This conversation isn't about condemning Alex but about honestly assessing whether someone who used their Catholic platform to manipulate women should return to a position of influence after just a month of reflection.

Christian brings up the powerful parallel of Michael Voris, who rejected advice to step away from the camera after his own scandal, only to eventually relapse and lose everything. This cautionary tale demonstrates why true charity sometimes requires maintaining firm boundaries rather than enabling potentially harmful patterns. As Christian pointedly notes, "Supporting your friend means dragging them to heaven, not cheering them on as they sprint towards hell."

The most enlightening moments come when the hosts discuss alternative paths forward – ways Alex could contribute to the Church without returning to the spotlight. Perhaps working behind the scenes, using his talents for writing or production, or even eventually helping others with similar struggles could provide meaningful service without the dangers of public ministry.

What makes this episode particularly valuable is the balance the hosts strike between mercy and justice, between compassion for a fallen brother and protection of the vulnerable. If you've ever struggled with how Catholics should respond to scandals within our own ranks, this thoughtful discussion offers a framework that honors both our call to forgiveness and our responsibility to uphold truth.

Chapters

• 0:00 Technical Difficulties
• 6:28 Reacting to Voice of Reason's Apology
• 14:44 Problematic Elements in the Video
• 24:12 The Severity of Public Ministry Abuse
• 35:03 Christian Mario's Video Response
• 54:38 Vanity, Hypocrisy, and Public Ministry
• 1:03:36 Finding a Path Forward

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

The CDF Show.

Speaker 3: 0:33

I think you're muted. My computer is going. Oh no, you're cutting out. Oh no, my computer is like glitching on me right now. Yeah, this is what happens. Oh no.

Speaker 1: 0:44

This is what happens when you don't have Rob. You tried.

Speaker 3: 0:50

Oh no, wait, Wait, we have to Wait. Let me just make sure, wait, hang on. I got everything plugged in, all right, am I still glitching on you? You sound fine, now. Oh, this is bad.

Speaker 1: 1:07

Wait, am I not late? Yeah, but there's still a delay, right?

Speaker 3: 1:09

no, I can hear you. There's a delay, oh yeah, but there's a delay between us. This is not good. Hang on. It's so over. Uh, I might have to. I might have to restart my computer. Dude, I might have to. This is not good.

Speaker 1: 1:28

It's so over. I might have to just cook for 10 minutes. I'm not restarting this stream. I might have to restart the stream.

Speaker 3: 1:37

Do it for two. I'm going to no, no, no, don't restart. Restart your computer, cook for two minutes.

Speaker 2: 1:39

I'm going to fix this. I'll just sit here and cook. I.

Speaker 3: 1:40

Restart your computer, cook for two minutes. I'm going to fix this. I'll just sit here and cook, I'll just entertain.

Speaker 1: 1:44

So everybody from Anthony's side come here.

Speaker 1: 1:50

I'm just going to have some fun for the next two or three minutes. Hey, hey, hey, start this Computer. Yeah, well, that's what happens when your computer's broken. You know, everyone leaves you and goes to my live stream. So how's it going? Everybody, all of my illustrious so he's disappeared. Now, really, Wow, this is kind of strange.

Speaker 1: 2:10

All of my illustrious YouTube followers, youtube supporters. I want to remind everybody. Okay, just as a little reminder, I'm not going to say anything, obviously, about the whole voice of reason situation until anthony comes back, because we're supposed to discuss that I don't want to sneak anything behind, uh, while he's gone, although that would be really funny if I did do that and try to go behind his back. But it's a reminder to please remember to follow my new shorts account. I have now been only posting all of my shorts on specifically scholastic shorts Okay, scholastic shorts. So follow that on YouTube. I've been trying to get that to a thousand followers, so please remember to go and subscribe to scholastic shorts on YouTube. Also, subscribe to or follow I don't know how this works on Instagram. Follow on Instagram, walmart Thomas. We're trying to grow our accounts in the Instagram sphere. And then, for my Shorts account, there was something weird that happened with my Shorts account. So I hope that you guys do that, because if you don't, you're kind of, you're not part of the team. Okay, you're also very cringe.

Speaker 1: 3:28

Senior Wagner, you are a helpful fellow. Thanks, sir. You're welcome. Long-time watcher, first-time chatter. Thank you, clark. The late award goes to Christian Wagner. That's Christian B Wagner DO, but Anthony, he is functioning. You know, anthony, the thing about Anthony, I really like Anthony, he's sort of a boomer.

Speaker 3: 3:45

He's sort of a boomer.

Speaker 2: 3:46

I hate you, I hate you, I'm watching you on the live stream.

Speaker 3: 3:51

All right, are we?

Speaker 1: 3:51

good, yes, but everybody on Anthony's side now remember to subscribe to Scholastic Shorts on YouTube, so wait a minute.

Speaker 3: 4:01

I do have a taffy intro.

Speaker 1: 4:03

I don't know what the hell happened there if the taffy intro is bad guys, I do not take responsibility for it.

Speaker 3: 4:09

I do not take responsibility let me uh, I gotta pull all my stuff up again, because I've restarted my computer here yes, somebody asked for the scholastic shorts.

Speaker 1: 4:18

If you go to my posts page on my youtube account, I think that's my last post is the scholastic shorts link on my YouTube account. I think that's my last post is the Scholastic Shorts link on my posts. Okay, yes, let's see. So I will post it in chat for all of you. Fine young men. So you're still trying to figure out how to do this whole intro thing that Taffy made. I got it, I got it.

Speaker 3: 4:43

Hang on, here we go Ready. Hang on here, we hang on, here we go ready. Hang on, here we go. Here we go hang on ready. Hey, hey, uh, I got it guys, I promise, here we go ready. You're sharing the screen. Yeah, I'm not. I'm trying to figure out who the Mr Miyagi face is. Tell me if you can figure it out. Taffy always gets us demonetized with the music.

Speaker 1: 5:23

Oh, he's going to get me demonetized. It's so over.

Speaker 3: 5:28

I don't know. You think that music will get us?

Speaker 1: 5:31

This is from.

Speaker 3: 5:33

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:34

Who's?

Speaker 3: 5:34

that.

Speaker 1: 5:41

I have no idea. Look at my eyes. Wait, did you?

Speaker 3: 5:43

see, I have no idea. Look at my eye. He needs to. He needs to, uh, axon.

Speaker 1: 5:48

Axon Axon.

Speaker 3: 5:52

Oh, it's Boris Axon, axon. Come back tomorrow, michael Boris oh, that was Boris, oh no.

Speaker 1: 6:15

Taffy, taffy. Okay, I did not take responsibility for this no, I didn't even pre-watch it wait that was Michael Warris.

Speaker 3: 6:25

Yes, I guess, so All right. So now that everybody's subscribed to Christian's new shorts channel, we want to make sure we do that, so all right. Now I wanted to ask you, because what was your initial thought when you watched his video this morning?

Speaker 1: 6:48

I actually watched it last night.

Speaker 3: 6:51

Voice of, because everybody got mad last time. We didn't like tell them what we were talking about. We're talking about Alex Harado from Voice of Reason. He put out an apology video last night. I didn't see it until this morning. What was your original thought when you saw it?

Speaker 1: 7:10

Well, there were some parts in there actually that, upon a first listen and without a reflection, they're actually very touching. Some of the parts when you were listening to what he was saying, the tone, the manner of speaking, it was actually very touching a lot of what he said and it resonates with a lot of people. So that was like first impressions, like right off the bat I was listening to it. I was like, wow, this is very, you know, heavy, very emotionally charged, like I really do feel a lot of what he's saying. Like I really do feel a lot of what he's saying. Like that's first response. Right, there is definitely, it was in that sphere.

Speaker 3: 7:54

Like. That's what my thoughts were initially. So even the first run through, like the whole beginning of the video, I thought was great. I was like, okay, this is okay. Whole beginning of the video, I thought was great. I was like, okay, this, this is okay.

Speaker 3: 8:07

But then I cut, I took, I cut up two clips that I thought were a little troublesome, um, and right away when I heard them I was like, oh, this don't sound right and I I was withholding from even speaking on it. And then I saw christian mario put out a video and his reasoning for putting it out was everybody was kind of just like praising alex for coming out and saying it. And I had this same exact feeling that christian mario had in his video and his point was I'm seeing all these catholics like glazing alex right now and nobody's actually seeing through what the what the problem is here and what it seemed like to me from from the first run through, without even reflecting on it. It felt like him testing out the waters to see if he dips his toes back in, what the reaction would be, and that's just kind of how I my first initial thought on it. And then there's another, another segment that I found pretty problematic when he starts talking about his, his priest and spiritual father.

Speaker 1: 9:08

So I think what's important for a lot of people to recognize is um, it's very easy for us to lose our souls over a situation like this. When we're talking about somebody else and the uh, the, the possible on the one hand I mean, think about how high the stakes are for being rash about this On the one hand, you could be defaming somebody who has an intense work of grace in their soul, of conversion towards God, a sort of experience that truly makes people saints. But on the other hand, you could be, uh, praising and running covers for somebody who's being deceptive, uh, about this and what I, what I uh and I'm not accusing him of that, of course um, but I think what we need to remember is that alex, his background and that's why I said the initial, the initial sort of emotional response, but once I sort of reflected on this a little bit more, you have to remember alex's he's a professional actor, that's his job. He's a trained actor, tv show, he's a public speaker. He has professionals working with him to produce this statement, to record this statement. This was something professionally done by somebody who is an actor, who had hid this from people for about a decade Everybody in his life, even his most close friends.

Speaker 1: 10:31

So that does not mean okay. So this is what I want to clarify this does not mean that he's lying to us. All of those things could be totally not connected with the truth or falsity of the statement, right? Totally not connected with the truth or falsity of the statement, right? So all of those things could be true and it could also be true that he's completely being genuine with us and really we don't know, and that's kind of the point that I'm going to bring forward. But on the other hand, it's also completely possible, with all of those factors in mind, that this is something which is not genuine, it's something which is a kind of a farce. And really, what I want to emphasize is the fact that those two distinct possibilities are on the table and it's something that we're not going to know which one of those possibilities are true, perhaps ever, or it's going to at least take a while of discerning of his future actions.

Speaker 1: 11:26

So I want I want to everybody sure, rejoice, Be glad that he has admitted his faults. That's awesome, that's good. I think that's a, it's a positive thing but also be be as innocent as as doves and as wise as serpents. You know, have that wisdom and discernment to be careful not to just jump right in and say, hallelujah, a month has passed, he's completely, he's awesome. Now let's get him back on the tour. I think that there needs to be caution, there needs to be charity, there needs to be clarity, there needs to be all of those things. The difficult sort of like antinomies of Christian perfection is able to hold together what seems to be very opposed virtues, but we have to try our hardest with it.

Speaker 3: 12:14

Look, I'm also going to say I have genuine empathy for him in that this kid for I mean I'm calling him a kid he's 30 years old but for the past decade his career path has been public apologist, so he's been, you know, this is. I mean at 30 years old he finally figured out what he was going to do with his life and it turns out he blew his. It would be like going to college for for a PhD and then finding out your your whole career path is just blown up in smoke. I mean I have genuine empathy for him in that aspect that, yeah, man, like some things we do completely alienate us from what we thought we were going to be able to do. I do think the fact that he was using his platform and his position too many times does disqualify him from being a public representative of the faith. I just do.

Speaker 3: 13:14

And that's not to say that all of us don't have sins. All of us do have sins. I mean, I've had arguments with my wife that I would be mortified if anybody ever saw a video of you, know things like that. Arguments with my wife that I would be mortified if anybody ever saw a video of you, know things like that. But I do think that there's certain things that kind of disqualify you from being a public representative of the faith. And this, this video just came off to me as man. I don't want, I don't want to try to read the guy's heart, I really don't, but it did have an element of testing the waters out to see how people would react to him, implying he might come back. I mean, I'll play the two clips that I had that I found the most problematic and I'll see if they're the same ones that you thought.

Speaker 1: 13:59

Yeah, I mean, I think that we need to distinguish an objective question and a subjective question and we need to be very clear about this. Objectively, I think there's room for debate. You know, if you have somebody who falls into this sort of sin in public ministry, you know, is there a timeline for them coming back? Like that is, I think, a good faith question that Catholics can have with one another, either harsher, a little bit more laxer stances. I think that's a totally good question that we can have. Then there's the subjective question of when we can see that a timeline is so quick to be evident of some sort of bad dispositions. So if he's coming back in, let's say, two months, I think everybody kind of recognizes that that's not, that's not good and that's not sort of like a good faith, uh sort of difference, uh sort of agree to disagree type situation if somebody's coming back so quickly. Um, so if you know if he's coming back in five years, you know it's yeah, that's great, we just agree.

Speaker 1: 14:58

You know he thinks that it's fine to do that. I don't think it's fine. Um, we just disagree and I do not doubt that he could be in good faith and hold that position like two, three months, you know, quick, uh sort of entrance back into the sphere. You know, I I don't think that it's acceptable. Um, I think that's a definitely sign of, of a of a lack of understanding of, uh, how damaging this sort of behavior is to somebody in the public sphere. Uh, so I I think we need to keep that clear.

Speaker 3: 15:26

Bobby, I'm going to get to your comment, but it's so similar to my thoughts that I want to wait until I play the video clip. So Bobby had a good comment, but I want to play the video. Let's do that. Let's, actually I want to play. I have two clips. I want to play the first one. Let me just get it ready here. You guys know me, I'm not Rob, so all right, let's play this first one. Let me see what your thoughts are on this part.

Speaker 2: 15:57

And I need everybody to know that my producer. He had no idea about what was going on. He didn't know about any of this. He didn't know my parish priest, he did not know my bishop, he did not know the people who were closest to me. They did not know anything because I was keeping my sins in the dark. But, like I said, like the Lord tells us, all things will be brought to the light.

Speaker 3: 16:42

So my issue here, when he's saying that his parish priest didn't know, saying that his parish priest didn't know, is that because he also mentions that his parish priest had told him he should go to counseling back in november and he didn't listen. And now he's saying his parish priest didn't know. So does does that mean he's been presenting himself for communion for a decade with these kinds of things going on, living in mortal sin like I? I don't know, that's just, that's a big one for me that his priest didn't know. And now, if you, your priest, advised counseling back in november, has he advised you not to come present yourself publicly now? I don't, I don't know it, just it seems like a bad reflection upon the priest at this point by him bringing this up.

Speaker 1: 17:34

Yeah, I mean it definitely leads you to wonder, but I mean there's many different circumstances that could explain this. So I want to be careful about drawing any sort of definite conclusion, because I know for a lot of people they don't like going to confession. It seems like he obviously and he admits this he had an accountability problem. So if he was going to confession, probably part of the accountability problem is you don't want to go to a priest who recognizes you when you go and confess. So I mean it could be that, but really it would be speculative on my part and there's other ways of explaining it that aren't insidious.

Speaker 3: 18:16

Yeah, yeah, he could be power shopping for that. Yeah, listen, this isn't about judging Alex's heart here or anything. This is just about it. When, when something like this happens, like to, to, to come out with an apology after a month is appropriate, Yep, that is appropriate. To come out and apologize and publicly admit. You know that, because I really didn't, I don't, I don't think I, I, I don't think I ever thought he really did something with a minor. My issue was more seeing the manipulation of women by using the Catholic faith. Like he used the Catholic faith, he used some of Christopher West's theology of the body language to beg these girls right. Like he used a lot of that theology of the body stuff and that kind of really like, like didn't sit well with me, but the main issue I had was with this one here. Hang on, Let me see. Sorry guys, this was the part that I found difficult.

Speaker 2: 19:42

And that's what I want everyone else, my audience, even if you feel like you can't support me anymore, if you feel like you have to walk away, I understand, I totally get it. But I just want everyone to at least know that, no matter how deep we are in our sin, no matter how deep we are in our sin, no matter how broken we are, no matter how fallen we are, no matter the extent of our misery, god can use those things to bring something good out of them. God can turn those things into something that gives glory to him, and all that I can do now is offer the situation to God and ask him to take this, put the situation at the foot of the cross, ask for his mercy.

Speaker 3: 20:49

Yeah, it was really just him saying I understand that those of you can't support me anymore.

Speaker 1: 20:58

Yeah, I don't know what that was supposed to mean. When I listened to that like a second time, I definitely felt that was problematic, because there's a sort of like what's the connection between the antecedent and the conclusion? Right there, the antecedent is I understand you can't support me, but here's this consideration, that is, god can bring good things even out of these bad situations. So, yeah, I do think clearly the implication is an intention or desire to come back, but we'll have to see what that looks like. The timeline, as I mentioned earlier, it could be done in an appropriate way or it could be done in an inappropriate way, and so really, for now it's kind of speculative.

Speaker 3: 21:39

I thought his best bet would have been to go into like a real program to get help for these kinds of this kind of issue and then maybe in a couple of years come out and help young men struggling with similar issues like that.

Speaker 3: 21:52

That I could have seen being because I do think a lot of young men do struggle with this kind of stuff and maybe he could have. I looked at it kind of like a uh, a person who struggles with alcoholism and they go to aa and then next thing you know they're hosting aa meetings and they're helping people with the same addiction. I thought maybe there could have been an avenue for something like that. But I think you're correct in that we have to be very cautious in just because look, you do. Of course we want Alex to return to the Catholic faith and of course we want. We want what's best for his soul and we want him to be welcomed back as a brother. But that doesn't mean we want him in the public for his own good, not even because we want to rag on him or anything like that. Like, for the good of his own soul, you don't want this for him.

Speaker 1: 22:42

Yeah, I also mentioned that there's the difficulty of scandal, because I saw a lot of people they were, you know, the hundreds and hundreds of comments on Instagram, youtube and Twitter of people basically commenting the same idea of like, oh, you know, if we ever demanded perfection from people who were to be in public ministry, then you know, nobody would be able to do that. Or like, oh, if you're without sin, why, you know, cast the first stone. A lot of people are having these sort of reactions, not to say that there is some sort of path forward, a difficult path forward through prayer and penance, to perhaps be, you know, to return back to the public sphere, like that might happen and we can discuss whether that's a good idea and maybe how long that takes and things like that. Those are open for discussion, but it's actually people who don't even have that in mind. Rather, the only thing they have in mind is to provide some sort of excuse for the sin and to justify why it isn't that serious of an issue.

Speaker 1: 23:52

And I think that it would be one thing if people were to mention the first way of there's a way through prayer and penance.

Speaker 1: 23:57

The healing of God's grace is so awesome to be able to overcome all of these things, which seem to be more so the tenor of actually what Alex himself said. And then there's the other way forward of to just minimalize and to excuse, which a lot of people are doing. So there's uh, genuinely, people are being um tempted to view these sorts of sins in a very light way. Uh, through this possibility of him coming back and I think that's a serious point to consider is minimizing scandals. You know, scandal is something that, incidentally, occurs through a lot of different acts, unfortunately. But to minimize it is an obligation that he has, and to have a, a return that even, you know, has a as a sort of inkling of being quick, uh does put forward, whether he likes it or not, and whether it's his intention or not, it does put forward this minimalization of what he did, which we see all throughout the comment sections and all of the different.

Speaker 3: 24:54

Well, I think a big part of the problem is a lot of young guys, and I see this with a lot of young guys. They're like, they're like well, you know who am I. We can all fall for the trap of lust and have a weak moment. That that's not what this was, guys. This wasn't him getting caught with his search history having some shady stuff on it. This is much different than that. This is him using his public platform and knowledge of the Catholic faith to manipulate women.

Speaker 3: 25:25

This is a very different thing than having a moment of weakness and giving into your lust and you know you have to go to confession because you looked at something wrong. It's not the same thing. This is a very serious thing and it it it's not because I think that's where most of the people, especially the young guys that I see commenting they're all trying to. They're trying to look at it from a place of oh, I don't want to judge him because I'll be judged like that, and that's understandable. I get that, but it doesn't mean he can't be forgiven. It just means he can't maintain the same position he had before.

Speaker 1: 26:02

Yeah, I think this is why I really did appreciate I don't think we've mentioned it yet I really actually did appreciate Mario's.

Speaker 3: 26:10

I have have his video up. We can go through it after you say this.

Speaker 1: 26:13

But yeah, but um, with mario's take. What I found to be so, uh, refreshing is that I think that with a lot of these discussions, there is a an aspect of christian and Christian common sense, like sanctified common sense, that's just completely lost in these situations. To where and this is something that my friend Riveron is really good with when he's evaluating these sorts of situations it's like, okay, let's just kind of like cut all of the you know, the piety signaling. Let's kind of cut all of the, the piety signaling. Let's kind of cut all of the sort of antagonism and favoritism towards different individuals and let's just be kind of honest and realistic with ourselves in considering what went on and the type of effects this has for the future, the habits, the vices that are built. Let's just be real with one another.

Speaker 1: 27:06

Let's look at the way this affects other people and the way that they see the world, the way that they see sin.

Speaker 1: 27:11

Let's kind of like view this a little bit more objectively and abstractly, rather than thinking about this in the terms of this is the guy I previously really liked, or this is the guy I previously didn't like, or this was the guy I had this or that feeling towards, or this is my own background of the type of sin that I struggled or struggle with. Thinking about this kind of just, in a common sense, objective way is very refreshing, because I was talking with somebody earlier and I said that you really do need to thread the needle on this topic so finely because it's so emotionally charged and people it seems like they just kind of throw away their brains with how they think about these sorts of situations because of all of the aforementioned effects, where people see they're you know an influencer that they like, that it's like they'll defend anything they do because they have this attachment to that influencer and it's it's not, it's not good, like we're all human and any one of us can make these kinds of mistakes.

Speaker 3: 28:23

But I'll tell you right now, if I got caught having an affair on my wife, I would disqualify myself from doing this. I'm sorry, there's just some things that you can't I defend you.

Speaker 1: 28:36

I'm joking, that was a joke. That was a joke, guys. I would not defend Anthony, I would not defend him, yeah.

Speaker 3: 28:46

I think a lot of people felt this way. I was a little disappointed when he seemed to leave a door open for coming back to public ministry. I think that lacks discernment to bring up in an apology. But that's all. Like you know, I don't think it's wrong that he came out and admitted to everything. I'll tell you.

Speaker 1: 29:04

OK, one comment I will make, and this might be extremely controversial. If you will be offended, just cover your ears. I also would really like I'm very much looking forward to the claim about the texting of the girl. When he was a catechist he didn't deny that any of those texts were. He didn't say they were fake or anything like that. I really would like to see the results of the investigation just to kind of get a confirmation there, because you know I will give the benefit of the doubt. But you know I would like to trust and verify on a lot of these issues and I think a lot of people have just kind of taken his word for something like that because he admitted the other things. But limited hangout is always possible with these things. But you know, obviously I'm not making an accusation here, I'm just saying that I would like to see confirmation.

Speaker 3: 29:58

And not just that, even if she wasn't underage, he was her catechist, he was in a position of authority over her. I mean, that would that would get you a lawsuit at any company you were working at, or anything like that. Somebody's asking can you ask Wagner how many women there's too many women to follow on this Three? And they only could be your mother, your sister or you know a family member. Yeah, I'm trying to keep it a little light here, but look, we went through this in the original video, like these things are very serious, but I don't like how these young guys are equating what he did to their weakness when it comes to what they look at on the Internet. There's a difference in severity. I understand it's the same. It's falling for the same spirit. I guess it's falling for lust, but this is just different.

Speaker 3: 30:57

This guy preyed upon women and preyed upon them in a way where he would know what to look for and what kind of woman to look for, and he knew what to present and he would. He had, he had a, he had a game that he laid out and he did it repeatedly, over and over, and he was successful. And he, he crafted this over time and he had a playbook that he ran by and he did. I mean, this is not you know I'm. I'm sorry, it sucks, because this weekend I was thinking about how I'm kind of trapped in this position where I seem to be commenting on everything going on in the Catholic world but I really don't think anybody has addressed this issue properly. And it was the same thing with the Lila thing the other day when she did her part, lila thing the other day when she did her part. Like there, somebody does need to talk about this stuff without, I don't know, without, without crossing lines and stuff.

Speaker 1: 31:54

These are topics that do have to be discussed by Catholics, so that we do, because other people are looking in talking about it, and it needs to be discussed amongst us well, I think that it's, uh, it's incredibly irresponsible to not address these sorts of things and I think that there has been a tendency always in the church and I think this has always been a bad thing to misunderstand the precepts around sins of speech, especially things like detraction or things like gossip, and they have misapplied this, especially when it comes to the sins of public figures. If this was your friend at the parish, sure, having a conversation about this, it may, outside of very limited circumstances, probably would be something close to a sin of speech. You have to very much guard yourself against making those statements. But it has always been recognized in the church that there is a certain uniqueness when it comes to public figures and you can read, for example, st Ignatius when he's talking about his, quickly, just talking about his examination of conscience and the sins of actions, the sins of thoughts, the sins of words and how we do or do not sin by sins of words. He's very clear about this is the unique role of a public figure and the type of things that can be said about a public figure, because these need to be addressed for the common good and it would be incredibly irresponsible, uh, for us or for somebody not to uh sort of pick up the the mantle of frankly talking about this, the lessons to be drawn, the uh the easy, easy sins that can be fallen into, like I've been for anybody who is on the right or the left of me here.

Speaker 1: 33:50

A lot of people have been saying both of like oh wagner, you know you're giving too much, or a a Wagner should never talk about this. For both of them, I mean, I've, I've uh call, uh I've spoken about the dangers that can come from credulousness you know very uh easily believing people in like grounds, especially people who do not have a trustworthiness and also the uh the sins, rashness Very easy to be rash about this as well. So, where there can be sins committed and where there are moral lessons to be drawn and where there is a general danger like what is exactly the problem with talking about this? I think it's from people who either haven't thought about this or have some sort of personal emotional attachment to the situation, which is what I meant about the threading the needle very closely.

Speaker 3: 34:38

Yeah, well, I'm curious, do you even because, look this, this business does require collaboration, right, like you and I have two totally different channels, but you and I are collaborating together, yeah, do you think anybody would even collaborate with him at this point, like that? That's? That's like something I've been wondering. If he wants, if he wants to come back into this, like who would, even who would be the first. But unless he's, unless he's coming on with a guy like me to face a real interview and real questions like what is this, this, this, this? I don't know, I don't see what I mean. What's he gonna do?

Speaker 1: 35:15

gonna go back to my podcast no, I don't, I don't think that, um, those types of podcasts would, would have the interview, um, I think that there's a lot of clout goblins out there and I think that a lot of them would uh be fine with collaborating, um, obviously like on a much smaller scale, but that is. That is something that I think we need to go, we need to prepare ourselves for is, you know the contingency of? You know he's three weeks from now, trying to make content again, like, what are the steps? Um, you know what? What are what are the steps to to try to oppose this?

Speaker 1: 35:52

And I think that that it's perfectly reasonable to have an organized way of thinking about how this is opposed, how we explain to people who are of goodwill and are willing to listen why this is a bad thing and the type of damage it's causing, because there are a lot of people out there who you know they are, they are of goodwill, uh, they have some uh disorder when it comes to the their own emotional involvement in this, uh, whether it's through their own uh past, whether it's through, um, the, the way in which voice of reason have helped them.

Speaker 1: 36:24

But there are, there are of goodwill and there just needs to simply be an explanation for the type of damage that this does, which one can even see from the words of Voice of Reason himself. It would be hypocritical and contrary to what he said if he was to try to come back in a short space, and I think it's also perfectly appropriate for the contingency of him coming back and collaborating with people that the people that he collaborates with that, uh, you know, there there'd be um, to put it in political terms, consequences there'd be. No, not consequences there'd be like secondary sanctions.

Speaker 1: 36:58

You know, if you buy uh, if you buy uh iranian oil, you get sanctioned. You know it's a nice show reason you get sanctioned I mean, that's something happened to it yeah, yeah that's a little bit of a joke, but I mean it's kind of serious is, when it comes to those people, yeah, there should be sanctions.

Speaker 3: 37:15

Vidal. Yeah, I can't agree with you, vidal. It depends what you mean by that. Right, I don't consider what I do, making money off the faith. Come on here and we talk for four hours, five hours a week, and I think if people are giving, if they're producing content and you enjoy it, they could be paid for it.

Speaker 1: 37:38

I don't, yeah, I mean, this is just against papal statements, and I think this is what we have to be really careful about when we just make intuitive statements like this of like, oh, I don't think laity should be making money off of the faith. The, the popes, when writing about Catholic action, said the exact opposite. They said that we actually need people who are um cooperators in Catholic action, who are able to dedicate everything to it. Um, and this is going to look, there's a lot of different aspects of Catholic action. You know there's, uh, everything from political action to, um, you know, the educational apostolate, the apostolate of media, people doing media work. There's a lot of different aspects of this, but, no, I just completely disagree with that, and the uh, the Pope's disagree as well.

Speaker 3: 38:19

Do you want to, uh, do you want to play a Christian Mario's video?

Speaker 1: 38:22

Yeah, yeah, I would like to react to that, yeah.

Speaker 3: 38:25

Okay, cause I think honestly, when he put that out I was like this is spot on, yeah. It was exactly what I was thinking, and I consider David a friend. Let's see.

Speaker 4: 38:46

Let's bring it up, okay. So I had a few thoughts on Vore and I wanted to share really quickly because a lot of people are very upset with.

Speaker 3: 38:52

And look, I do think we should, because I heard somebody say we should be calling him Alex Harado. But like voice of reason is his rap name and like we got to call him by his rap name is how I see it.

Speaker 4: 39:01

So I don't know about Vore, but my post where I criticized him for posting that he now has a robust prayer life after his sexting scandal life after his sexting scandal. And I think I just wanted to explain some of this for people that I think have, like, maybe a faulty understanding of what it means to forgive in Christianity, or maybe they don't have a good understanding of discernment. But a few things. I'm not trying to sound patronizing, I just think this is genuinely concerning when you're caught with your pants down, caught doing something extremely immoral like leveraging your ministry to get women to sex you or in sexual situations with you, and you disappear for a month and then you post a video where you say I don't know what the future holds for my ministry and then you say I understand some of you won't be able to support me anymore. That sounds like a guy who's shaken by the fact that he's been caught, but it does not sound like a guy who understands it's time to pack it up and let his ministry go, because he still wants to go online, presumably, and see if he has a shot to get his foot back in the door, because why else would you say those who can't support me anymore and why else would you say I don't know what the future holds for my ministry. Bro, I know what the future holds for your ministry it's helping you to stop.

Speaker 4: 40:23

You used your ministry to leverage women into sex. That's bad, and people will respond by going or into sexual situations. At least, I don't know about what. If you slept with these women or not, I don't care, but you used a ministry to leverage women into a bad spot. That's not good. And so for the people that are responding going well, all men have sexual sin. Okay, well, congrats.

Speaker 4: 40:45

You're not understanding what I'm saying at all. Yeah, but do all men use ministry and influencer status to have a bunch of groupies? Is that all men use a ministry and influencer status to have a bunch of groupies? Is that what all men do? I don't think so. I don't think that's true at all. So, yeah, it seems like a lot of guys with zero discernment go whoa, oh, oh, guys, he said sorry, so now he's untouchable. And now you know? And now we all have to be super graceful and like just accept him, or it's rash judgment, uh, no, it's just discernment, dude. I mean, if somebody beats his wife and then says sorry everybody, I'm not going to beat my wife anymore. Are you really going to trust him to be around his wife?

Speaker 3: 41:18

I think beating his wife would be less. Do you want to pause it at all, or do you want to just play it through?

Speaker 1: 41:26

No, I think I want to play it through. All right, we'll play it all the way through.

Speaker 4: 41:31

Wife again and not beat her. I think I want to play it through. All right, we'll play it all the way through wife again and not beat her. I mean I wouldn't maybe you would, but going on.

Speaker 3: 41:38

Well, no, that that analogy works. If if the guy beat his wife and he's going out giving marriage counseling, right like that's, that's more of an apt analogy. Like if if a guy's a marriage counselor and he's telling people how to have a healthy marriage and then a video comes out of him beating his wife, that would be a more apt analogy, I think so for 25 minutes, with all these super dramatic pauses, and then saying that you're holier than thou.

Speaker 4: 42:06

because now you he didn't say he was holier than thou, but now saying I have a more robust life that we should all aspire to Really. So you say the scandal happens and now you're holier than ever. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 3: 42:18

You know, look, I want to stop it there for a second because Alex did do that, like he commented, how you know, after this month I have this robust prayer life and he said how he's going to counseling once. He's gone to counseling every week. So he's gone to four counseling sessions and he's praying every day, which is, you know, he probably should have been praying anyway, but it is kind of strange how he's presenting that, and I'm not saying he's saying he's holier than thou, but Christian's kind of right in his analysis here, I think.

Speaker 1: 42:51

Yeah, I mean, I think that it's really hard because, as I mentioned, it's a lot of speculation and I don't like to speculate, but it is objectively difficult to and I want to acknowledge this. It is like objectively difficult to and I want to acknowledge this it's very objectively difficult to make a apology video and make it not sound really, really bad. Yeah, like, I'm sure there's always the, because you know you can kind of plug and chug the way in which a lot of these secular apology things went. It's like oh, I, you know, I've I example, I said the N word. I'm really sorry about saying the N word. I'm I'm a much better person now. Like I've gotten a lot better about saying the N word. I'm friends with a lot of black people.

Speaker 1: 43:40

Now it's like there's a, there's a sort of script that often gets followed, but we also have to remember is like, what else are you supposed to say? Like are you supposed to say like you know, I said it, I'm really sorry, I still say it, I still struggle with saying it. It's like dude, come, come on. Like that's, that's like a really bad, uh, apology video. If you're just like, I'm sorry for doing it, I still do it. Uh. So like on the one hand, yeah, it is, it is sort of like a cliche and that's kind of how they all go, but on the other hand, it's like, okay, what else is he supposed to? Is he supposed to say like, yeah, I did it, my prayer life was really bad. It's still kind of crappy and I still kind of you know, yeah, I want to sin and you know I still. Kind of that would just be like, okay, what are you even saying now? Like this shouldn't even be an apology video.

Speaker 1: 44:25

Like why did you think in the first place? I think it's just like a sin of the genre. Honestly, if I something like this happened to me, I probably would make a big old statement. I'd's just like a sin of the genre. Honestly, if something like this happened to me, I probably wouldn't make a big old statement. I'd probably just take the L and disappear, because it's just hard to not make it something like this. And I get why. Especially in the spiritual life, it can be especially grating to people like Mario, because it's awesome to witness to the power of mercy and the power of God's grace. It's awesome to witness to the power of mercy and the power of God's grace, but it's hard to sometimes witness to that power and that mercy without it sounding like you are now getting on a pedestal and lecturing other people about how these things work.

Speaker 3: 45:06

If you get what I'm saying. Yeah, and also there's a degree of this right, so okay. So we apologize. Did we just move into another parish now?

Speaker 1: 45:14

Yeah, I mean it's basically the same ideas of like the moving the priests around the parishes, it's if you just go to a different ministry, uh sort of idea, but yeah let me let me finish christian's video out, because I hate when I watch people react to videos and they don't just let the video play out.

Speaker 4: 45:28

So I'll let it finish out before we comment again and maybe that's true, but it seems like it's something that you're saying as an angle to get people to trust you and then at the end you performatively read a long prayer in front of everybody. That's never sat well with me. When anybody does that orthodox catholic, probably, I don't care it's never sat well with me. The public praying, praying and all this sort of thing. There's a difference between posting a prayer on Twitter that you think is pretty. There's a difference between things like that and performatively videoing yourself praying. It just doesn't sit well with me. So that's my thoughts on Vore, and I'm really tired of all the moralizing and the comments. Like he who, without sin, cast the first stone.

Speaker 3: 46:12

I'm just pausing it to annoy everybody, but I'm gonna finish with it.

Speaker 4: 46:14

Dude, I have sin. I'm just saying that this dude shouldn't have his ministry, that he used to leverage women into sexual situations anymore. That's it. And I'm saying that I don't really buy. I don't buy it. I don't buy that he's not trying to have a foot back into the ministry. If he said that he was walking away from the ministry, I would respect him, but that's not what he said. Instead, he was walking away from the ministry. I would respect him, but that's not what he said. Instead, he's acting like you know.

Speaker 4: 46:35

Any indication I can come back in, guys, and make that Catholic ink money. I want some of that Catholic ink money and it just lacks all integrity. And the only reason I'm the one talking about it is because I don't see the Catholics talking about it. Before I saw them calling him out. But now that he said sorry, sorry, it seems like it's all good for everybody, so I'm gonna be the one to talk about it if nobody else is so that's what made me want to do this video today is because he called me out, basically, and somebody called him the timu anthony abadi I don't know, it's hilarious I I like when somebody said I thought this was a captive dreamer video at first taco talks, ortho taco talk video over.

Speaker 3: 47:17

Uh, yeah, look he's. He's christian mario. That was, uh, that was a good analysis, I think. Uh, yeah, look, there's always a danger in pointing at other sins, right like this. Past sunday was just the publican and the tax collector and for the schismatics, not for the the novus ordo, but the bogus ordo was not hey, wait, I do. I. I've read the uh novus ordo reading too. Hang on, wait. What was the novus ordo this week?

Speaker 1: 47:53

uh, oh, it was not set the world. Set the world on fire. Set the world on fire, yes jesus says yeah, that he has.

Speaker 3: 47:59

Uh, you know desire no, he came to bring brother against brother, sister against sister right, yeah, okay, yeah, I forgot it for a second, but I even I know the novus auto reading of you, but now we have the publican and the tax collector for uh, for the, for the, uh, yeah, for this me call me calling you out for not knowing the.

Speaker 1: 48:15

for the. Yeah, for the schismatics. Me calling you out for not knowing the Novus Ordo reading was basically public ending tax collector behavior. I was the tax collector Like look at this poor schismatic, this rad trat over here that does not know his Novus Ordo reading the funny thing is I always read both.

Speaker 3: 48:29

I always do read both, so so I did know it was brother against brother. I always do read both, so, but so I did know it was brother against brother. So I, you know, I've, I've come to bring peace, not, not peace, but the sword. But, um, the, the publican and the tax collector is such an interesting one because we all want to think we're the publican, like, oh Lord, have mercy on me.

Speaker 3: 48:49

Else has sent out and said like, oh, thank god, I'm not like voice of reason, right, but really there is an element of any one of us could fall into something like this. If, like this is, this is the point of practicing custody of the eyes and not putting yourself in a situation where you could fall into the it's not, it's it's. There's a whole set of things that come along with when you're, when you're catholic, that you have to make sure you don't put yourself in a situation where you could fall into these things and a lot of. I think what happened to alex was he wasn't, he wasn't on guard for the devil, like the devil is, you know, roaming the world. Roaming the world, seeking the ruin of souls yeah, I think this is.

Speaker 1: 49:31

This is also why, when last time and this time as well, it's you'll find this funny I actually just turned off the comment sections on my video because it's weird. It's like these situations when people go into, uh, when people go into, like argue about this and blood sport about this, like oh there's. This becomes a a very strong occasion of sin to people, as either they will uncharitably judge my motives, they'll uncharitably judge your motives, they'll say crazy things about voice of reason. To be a sort of level-headed, objective critique of saying hey, wagner, you said this point about him being an actor and how this connected to your analysis of the situation. I think it's wrong for this, this and this reason from his back, people aren't giving critical, objective analysis of the points that you made. They're usually just accusing me of sins.

Speaker 3: 50:31

How dare you even talk about this? This is gossip. Yes, guys, I did mess that up. It's obviously. The publican is the tax collector. It's the publican and the pharisee.

Speaker 3: 50:39

I apologize, guys oh frick, yeah I messed up, um, yeah, look, any any time. I always get those comments whenever I discuss anything like this, where people just jump in the comments and they're like, how dare you? Like as if we're trying to start a fight within the Catholic world, and that's not at all what we're. What we're doing, I know you and I actually, when we spoke this afternoon, it was look, we want to actually try to help people not be overly rash on this right Like you don't want people to just come down and curse the person to damnation and the other one is be too gullible and welcome somebody in and and believe every single word that they're saying, that there just has to be a level of we have to be cautious when things like this happen yeah, because a lot of people don't realize this, but gullibility is a vice.

Speaker 1: 51:32

It's usually called credulousness, but gullibility is a vice because you have a moral obligation to be careful and prudent and aware and to have discernment about these sorts of situations.

Speaker 1: 51:46

So it's almost as if people are demanding that I sin by throwing away a sort of common sense, by throwing away a sort of common sense reading of the situation and through, like obviously you know, my experience with human nature, like my experience with myself, my own vices, how those vices get overcome, my experience with other people and the sort of background details that they have and how sin generally works and its effects.

Speaker 1: 52:13

It's like inconceivable for me to just kind of throw this all away and to just pretend, like you know, oh, I guess I will just um, go beyond giving somebody the benefit of the doubt and go into a sort of like an infallible ascent of faith to every word they say, because they said an apology. I think mario is completely uh, you know he kind of said that the the emperor had no clothes on that one because I almost saw a complete and unanimous, like positive reception outside of mario, um, and like I I tried to soften the blow on on the way in which I phrased it, but he kind of just you know, went out and said it sort of a wrecking ball yeah, well, look, I remember the first apology alex came out with was um, everybody was doing the same thing and I and we were like wait a minute, like hold on.

Speaker 3: 53:05

He's not actually that, because all of us especially me and you in this arena like we all struggle with a bit of vanity, right. Like we, we're all trying to fight vanity, right. But part of what he's dealing with is not just the, the stuff behind the scenes, but it's the public spotlight itself, right? So I still don't think he's on guard because he's fighting to get back to the status that greatly contributed to the poll to begin with. Like the reason we did the first video, he came out with that first apology about out and we discussed it, and I think us discussing it and then other people speaking on it is what caused him to take that initial step back to begin with, because he came out firing out with an apology right away, like he was going to come out, defend themselves and stay in the public spotlight.

Speaker 3: 54:08

But I think the amount of public pressure made him take a step back and I think it's good for his soul to keep that pressure on him. Like I'm actually concerned with alex's soul. This isn't just about me not liking alex or something. It's not anything to do with that, it's that I. I'm very concerned that he's going to jump right back into this and fall back into old habits, because these kinds of habits that we're talking about take way more than a month to actually free yourself from.

Speaker 1: 54:36

These are things that yeah, I was just gonna say, um, you're exactly right, there's, there's something interesting and, uh, providential. This morning, um, I was reading something in saint thomas about vainglory and basically for him he's like vain glory is the, um, it's, it's good and it's proper. To seek the, the good that is due to you, like that that's totally fine, that's totally good. But to seek an undue, um good is vicious and that's sort of like the root of pride. Uh, pride is seeking an undue good, but vain glory is specifically seeking the good of adulation. So, like other people, you know, sort of viewing you in a positive light. And he says this is specifically vainglory. You're seeking glory from others in ways that are not appropriate.

Speaker 1: 55:25

And he describes what are called the daughters of vainglory. He says, like, basically, what are those means whereby one will use to further this vice? And one of them is hypocrisy. It's very interesting.

Speaker 1: 55:37

He says hypocrisy is one of the daughters of vainglory, because one is seeking this sort of undue adulation so much from other people that they're willing to hide their own vices and they're willing to propose something outwardly that's different, so that people do not stop this adulation of them. And I think one of the dangers to having a response like we've had so far is. It does tempt him to vainglory, it does tempt him to hypocrisy, to not be honest with himself and open about his own faults. Um, because of uh, the, the sort of uh adulation, the universal adulation that was received uh from this, and it would seem like this adulation would foster uh would falter, rather, if there was an acknowledgement that the good resolution that he expressed was not carried out in perfection. So, yeah, this is absolutely right. These sorts of responses can very easily especially for somebody who's not constantly guarding themselves against it, it can very easily beget this vice of vainglory through hypocrisy.

Speaker 3: 56:56

Yeah, listen, I'll tell you that that's something I struggle with, right Like I like being the center of attention. I like, you know, no matter where I go to, it's not just on this show Like I go to a party, I'm always trying to be the funny guy I want everybody to, always, you know, not, it's not easy to fight that, and any, I think any of us that step into this, into this area, probably do struggle with it, right like we, we want the attention. But if you're also struggling with something like that, this can this kind of hypes that up, and you know, I mean, yeah, I I'm genuinely concerned for for alex, well, well, I don't a lot of the people.

Speaker 1: 57:36

They're they're good intention when they're saying stuff like this, because the way that they view it is they kind of view this in a feminine way. I mean, I don't, I don't mean this to be like super offensive, but it's just. This is how females work. You know, when you have somebody who comes out with something like this, the instant desires to have that sort of like comforting presence, like, oh, I'm standing by you, I'm standing behind you. You know. Oh, it's okay, you know it's uh, you know, we receive you, we accept you, and that's like a very feminine coded thing.

Speaker 1: 58:04

Uh, you know, if I, if I like for me as a man, you know, if I fall into, uh, some sort of vice like this, uh, you know, I'm going to want somebody to keep their foot on my neck and I say like, oh, you know, I messed up, I screwed up.

Speaker 1: 58:18

Like I don't want them to just like be super soft with me, but I want them to be very, uh realistic with me and be like hey, dude, like you need to, you need to make sure you're doing this, this and this like let's, you know, I will help you out. This is the support of a man for another man. I will help you out with the means and advice that you need in order to overcome this. But the sort of like emotional comforting that comes from praising somebody else, like that is a very feminine coded thing. Or maybe men who are more effeminate, who are commenting on these issues, they may not recognize that this is, you know, for a man, you know having a sort of infinite adulation, infinite sort of acceptance and, like you described it earlier, glazing to have.

Speaker 1: 59:11

That sort of response can often do a lot of damage to somebody. It's not the fact that we don't like alex or that we we despise alex or anything like that that we're we're taking this more objective approach. It's the fact that actually, this is exactly what needs to happen.

Speaker 3: 59:27

Um, and it's unfortunate that there hasn't been this perspective from more people yeah, the people that love him I made this point in our yeah, the people that love him, I made this point in our first conversation like the people that love him should be the first ones telling him you don't belong doing this, like for you, for the good of you. I feel like I'm the old, like I don't want to say me, but whatever. I feel like we were the only ones. When we came out and talked about this, everybody was accusing us of something. When, when, in reality, I felt like we were the only ones caring enough about him to talk about this, to tell him no, this is not OK, you cannot. You cannot just come out with this weak apology and then just get right back into this thing. So supporting your friend means dragging them to heaven, not cheering them on as they sprint towards hell. Hold your people accountable.

Speaker 3: 1:00:10

Yeah, there's an element of justice that we've lost in the church that it's this over-emphasis on mercy, to the point where people downplay the seriousness of sin, and it's happened throughout the church. At this point where everything is just kind of downplayed to lowering the moral standard, and especially over the past, you know, couple of decades, where you hear all the time like sins of the flesh are the. You know the least of the sins and they are in that they're the. Probably, like you know, jesus always forgave the prostitute and things like that. But sins of the flesh lead to sins of the heart.

Speaker 1: 1:01:00

So you have to hold people accountable when it comes to things like that for their heart. Yeah, I think I definitely agree. I think that this is a sort of way forward that we all need to be, and this is sort of a message for a lot of you guys. It's very easy when you see a lot of these people who and this is something that I've had to like learn a lot and try to check myself on a lot, when you see other people who are like in these comment sections, just saying like oh, you know, are you perfect? Oh, like, you know you shouldn't. Like you're gossiping, like accusing you of all of these things, speaking ill of your name, you know all of these different things, just for having a very sort of moderate, level headed, realistic take on this, obviously like not committing any sort of sins against him, just to recognize that that other person yes, they are doing something which is objectively wrong. You need to get into their mindset of how they're falsely thinking about this and try to explain it to them in a way to where they understand why this is something which is based on love. It's not based on hatred or judgmental-ness. It's based on love for him and, most importantly, the love that one ought to have for all of his neighbors, all of those neighbors who are, and all of those fellow Catholics of yours who are seeing this situation play out. And if they see this treated in a way that is not in accordance with prudence and not in accordance with those principles in which we ought to hold of common sense, then what's going to happen is a lot of your brethren are going to be falling into sin. They're going to be genuinely scandalized. This is what scandal means.

Speaker 1: 1:02:50

Scandal means not offending somebody. Scandal means that you are leading another person into sin. Scandal happens by example, and part of the example is a very light treatment of these sorts of situations, and you can play into the hand of scandal by treating them in this way. So I would encourage everybody who's probably a lot more listening right now, it's probably a lot more sympathetic to what I'm saying to, when you are interacting with those other people, try to actually explain things. I know it's really hard. I have the temptation to just block the person or just tell them they're being an idiot or say, okay, are you dumb? It's very easy to do that, like I'm always tempted to do that, uh, but you know, at your better moments, uh try to reflect on this fact. That's uh. You need to do that um, all right.

Speaker 3: 1:03:45

So, honestly, I do think everybody needs to pray for alex, and I mean that genuinely. I'm not just like say, like really pray for alex, and and I, I mean I I think if Alex does see this, alex, you need to consider another line of work. You need to figure something else out. Like this is not the path. You're not going to be a Catholic commentator, you're not going to be an apologist, you're not going to be a catechist. It's not going to happen. You have to figure something else out.

Speaker 3: 1:04:13

I don't know what that means for you, but this ain't it. And I don't think anybody should enable him to come back into this space out of love for him not out of enmity or anger or anything like that out of love for him and out of care for the people who enjoyed him. Like there's just, you know, you just kind of have to do this. Um, I, I honestly I feel bad for him because I can't imagine what that's like, but it's not. But he doesn't have a wife and children. So this, you know it's, it's not. It's not the end of the world for him. It's not like you know he's going to be out on the street or anything, but he needs to figure something else out.

Speaker 1: 1:04:54

Yeah, I mean I. I think that there's a lot of different ways in which this could, uh, this could look. I. I think that, um, one of the most illustrative examples of this from a previous generation, which we brought up in the beginning, is actually the the situation with E Michael Jones and Michael Voris. So, for those who don't know, michael Voris practicing homosexual, continuously practicing homosexual for a very long time, including after he reverted to the church and this was about to be exposed. So he himself admitted to it in an apology video that bears striking resemblance to a lot of what Voice of Reason was saying. And he came back. You know he said I repented. You know I left that lifestyle behind. Everyone's like oh OK, this is awesome.

Speaker 1: 1:05:47

E Michael Jones, after that was exposed, said no, you were practicing homosexual for a very long time. You can see the effects of some of these sins. These sins are very grievous and they affect your soul at such a deep level that you need to step away for a very long time. Go behind the scenes. You can still work in media, but go behind the scenes. Don't be in front of the camera. That easily plays into your pride. It plays into a lot of different vices that homosexuals often struggle with. So you need to sit back. I will myself, like he said, I will myself become the owner and CEO of the company, and Michael Voris completely refused. A few years later, it was exposed that Michael Voris was engaging in the same exact behavior of a sort of homosexual strain and he lost everything. Church Milliton completely fell apart and then now he's still trying to seek attention on some backwater YouTube channel, getting 100 views after apologizing for the 70th time.

Speaker 1: 1:06:50

And I think this is an illustrative example and the advice of E Michael Jones is prudent Get away from the camera can very easily inflame a lot of those bad dispositions that are acquired through these types of sins, and you don't need to completely leave in every single way. Anthony probably disagrees with me, but you don't need to leave completely in every single way. You can write stuff. There's a lot of behind the scenes. You could edit videos. There's a lot of different ways you can help Catholic action if truly that is your passion and not wanting should look back and think about the michael voris e michael jones situation, because it could easily spiral into something like this and it shows a lot of the same uh patterns actually that's actually really really good advice that you just like, like there's other ways you could do, you could do this without being in the public eye.

Speaker 3: 1:07:52

Like that, like if you, if you really do have something to contribute, you just don't need your face and name out there. Like that, you could just contribute and even have a pseudonym or something like that. If you think it's valuable to the church and this is, you know, that's a. That's a totally different way to go about it. That's a. That's an interesting point. I don't even think of something like that. Um, christian, you got a little bit longer. I want to. I want to talk to you on on locals for a little bit yeah, yeah, that's fine.

Speaker 3: 1:08:16

Uh, I'm supposed to play call of duty a little bit later, but I need you like like 20 minutes I want to get to the bottom of this catholic ink thing that you went and did this, this creator conference okay, yeah, pictures we're gonna talk about, we're gonna get on you a little bit okay, we can.

Speaker 1: 1:08:30

We can talk about that.

Speaker 3: 1:08:31

You can harass me about it, yeah no, no, no, we're going to do a little talk. I want to see how your weekend over there was with them. So if you guys aren't Locals members, come join us over on Locals. I want to talk to Christian a little bit about some of the things he did while he was over there and maybe get to the bottom of some of his scandal that he's put forth before everybody. So I'm going gonna start removing these other streams. Uh, facebook's gone.

Speaker 1: 1:08:58

uh, before we get everybody on my channel um real, real quick. Uh want to go through some of these super chat. Hey boys, you're boomer mimi here. Hello, boomer mimi. Pray the rosary. So Pray the Rosary at the TLM. So true, and yeah, that's all of them. But everybody, reminder, follow the Shorts account. I will talk to you guys later. Goodbye.

Speaker 3: 1:09:23

Yeah, anybody that's subbed to Christian and not avoiding Babylon, go sub to avoiding Babylon. Anybody that's subbed to avoiding Babylon and not Scholastic Answers go sub to them?

Speaker 1: 1:09:34

Yeah, because I'm like 500 away from 30K so I'm getting close.

Speaker 3: 1:09:40

And Christian's a really, really good friend and we want to support our friends. So there may be me and Christian have talked about conferences in the future and things like that, so there might be some things coming up. So help one another's channels out and share the