Diocese of Charlotte Nukes the TLM: Are We Sill Living in the Francis Era?

The battle for the soul of Catholic worship intensifies as the Diocese of Charlotte announces an accelerated ban on the Traditional Latin Mass. What begins as a casual conversation between friends quickly transforms into an impassioned exploration of liturgical identity, ecclesiastical authority, and the deeper tensions dividing today's Church.

When Bishop Michael Martin of Charlotte announced the Traditional Latin Mass would be prohibited in parish churches, he likely didn't anticipate the firestorm it would ignite among faithful Catholics. We dive deep into the diocese's internal memo—a document filled with contradictions that suggests Latin Mass attendees should "do penance" while simultaneously calling for unity. The irony is palpable: a bishop eliminating a form of worship because he doesn't appreciate those who prefer it, while claiming to act in the name of harmony.

The conversation broadens to examine the theological underpinnings of modern liturgical conflicts. Is this merely about preferences, or does it reveal something more fundamental about competing visions of Catholicism? We explore how the implementation of Traditionis Custodes seems designed to marginalize traditionalists rather than integrate them, highlighting the curious paradox of Church leaders who claim to value diversity while actively suppressing traditional expressions of faith.

Most fascinating is the timing of this decision, coming during the transition to Pope Leo XIV's pontificate. Is this an attempt to force the new pope's hand on a divisive issue? Throughout history, every heresy has represented a battle for the soul of Christendom—and perhaps today's liturgical wars are simply the latest chapter in this eternal struggle between continuity and rupture, between preserving tradition and embracing modernity.

Whether you're a devoted traditionalist, a committed Novus Ordo Catholic, or simply curious about the internal dynamics of today's Church, this episode offers rare insight into one of the most consequential religious conflicts of our time. The question remains: can authentic unity ever be achieved through suppression?

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Chapters

• 0:00 Intro and Catching Up
• 6:52 Charlotte Diocese TLM Ban
• 15:33 Bishop Martin's Letter and Implementation
• 29:11 The Gaslighting Memo Explained
• 55:38 Modernism vs Traditional Catholicism
• 1:11:23 Pope Leo XIV and Hope for the Future
• 1:31:02 Hawaiian Pidgin Bible and Scripture Reverence
• 1:42:42 Memorial Day Tribute and Father Kapaun

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:05

Sancte, sancte, amare morti, decadast nos In taste, they're a-fearing. There we go, wait, where's mark?

Speaker 2: 1:53

here I am. What's up, guys? That's pretty good. That's pretty good. What's up, fellas? Everybody in avoiding baby. It's been a hot minute. It's good to see you guys.

Speaker 1: 2:05

It's been a long time.

Speaker 2: 2:07

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:08

How we doing Good, good. How many shows have you guys done in the last year?

Speaker 2: 2:16

So this year we're doing more content than we did last year, because last year we did zero. No, we didn't do zero, we've already done 100 more shows than we did last year. I don't know. We're gonna do a show on nicaea and they're gonna start that. I'm going on vacation next week and when I get back, my plan I wasn't invited, but whatever that off. No, because we want to actually do the show. So if I actually invite you, you'll be like oh, I'm wrestling that night.

Speaker 1: 2:44

Or, or, let me get back to you every single time.

Speaker 2: 2:49

I don't know. I love you. I'm teasing you, man.

Speaker 4: 2:55

Well, I do that in every aspect of my life. Somebody asked me something and I'm like I'll let you know.

Speaker 1: 3:00

I don't like to commit right away, without thinking know is that a texas thing, or is that a jason thing?

Speaker 4: 3:05

that's a jason thing, man, anything no you know it was like my friends used to always joke when, when I would, when I would eat food, somebody asked me how it was, my answer is always it's all right, it's all right. And one time and one time somebody was kind of getting annoyed, I guess, guess, and my one of my really good friends. He was like just let me tell you something, jason. If it's all right, it means he liked it. He'll tell you if it's bad. If he says all right, it means it was good.

Speaker 2: 3:28

Yeah, so it's kind of like.

Speaker 4: 3:30

It's kind of like, I'll let you know. When he asked me about a time, I'll let you know.

Speaker 1: 3:37

Did your wife.

Speaker 4: 3:38

I'll let you know I can't, I can't commit yet or he'll do this, he'll do this.

Speaker 2: 3:45

Uh, how about wednesday? Is wednesday work and you'll go? Yeah, wednesday works, and who knows? Okay, I'll get back to you. Let me see, wait what. He says that to me not the best podcast partner no, you are, you are man, you are absolutely.

Speaker 2: 4:01

For those of you, anybody who doesn't follow our show, we're called text katherine. Go look us up and follow us please, because, uh, I think for what we've have been able to do, I was actually going back and listening to some old shows and I was like so it's not bad, not great either.

Speaker 1: 4:16

They used to be the trad man. But then jason went serum, right, yeah, right. So yeah, for any of you who don't know, these guys were here on like that'll be our third, third trivia episode ever yeah, at least in the chat yeah, oh, oh, man, I'm not paying attention to the chat. Chat, what do you do? Okay, they're not spelling what I thought they were spelling, they're just spelling beef Rob.

Speaker 2: 4:44

No, no, oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Hey look, I'm just reading the chat. No, he spelled beef, all right, so we're going to talk about Charlotte.

Speaker 1: 4:56

I've been reliably told that I am unqualified to talk about Charlotte, not because I'm not a theologian right, but because I don't live there.

Speaker 2: 5:07

so should we just just should, we just can the whole main topic, yeah since we're not qualified to talk you imagine a world in which I ever sat around waiting on somebody to give me permission to have an opinion about a damn thing if I wanted to have an opinion on the best way to fly an f-14 tomcat? You don't have to like it, you don't have to listen to it, you don't even have to agree with it, but I get to have it and there's nothing you or anybody else can do about it well, what's here?

Speaker 2: 5:37

I might not have ever flown it, but hey, doesn't mean you can't have an opinion, that's true and even if you're not allowed to, I'm gonna have it anyway, and there's not a darn thing in the world any of you can do about it. Now, what you got to say about that, you bunch?

Speaker 4: 5:53

of. I bet you I could do something about it.

Speaker 2: 5:55

Whatever by the way, I have to say the degree to which you guys think about us is very strange and sick and weird. I mean, I don't like the Novus Ordo Mesa either. I've never in my life taken any concrete steps to take it away from anybody. It's so weird and creepy. I'm sorry. What a sad, pathetic loser you've become. You actually Now listen to this. They don't hate the traditional Latin mass, they hate that. You love it. Who are you talking about, creepy?

Speaker 1: 6:21

and actually now listen to this. They don't hate the traditional latin mass. They wait a minute they hate that.

Speaker 2: 6:22

You love it. Who are you talking about? Creepy and weird. All the people who want to take away the traditional modernists are modernists marks

Speaker 1: 6:31

modernists are a big chunk of this.

Speaker 2: 6:34

I certainly think it has its theological and ideological roots in in modernism, to be sure, but I just think man touch grass, man Get a life, see a therapist. It's so bizarre the degree to which you're obsessed with us. We have no power in the Catholic Church, as you never tire of letting us know every second of every day, and yet when all of your stupid plans come to nothing, it's always our fault. We did that to you and I'm just wondering name me a single bishop that's ever taken away your Novus Ordo. You can't, not one. We don't think about you at all that much. I mean, my goodness, we have lives of other things going on. It's so bizarre.

Speaker 1: 7:17

Touch grass. I was wondering how long it was going to take. I would have bet 10 minutes.

Speaker 4: 7:21

I was wondering how long it was going to take, I would have bet 10 minutes, not Dude. We didn't make it two. No, not even close. He ain't done.

Speaker 1: 7:25

That's the problem he ain't done. I'm not going to say anything because I know he's just getting wound up.

Speaker 2: 7:31

You invited me on the show man.

Speaker 1: 7:33

What do you have to say about? What is it, Jason, that place in Rome?

Speaker 4: 7:43

Oh, the pontifical yeah, what do you think about?

Speaker 2: 7:48

I just think, like it's like the harvard of the catholic church. It's such a like these, these, these people who go there. They can't wait to tell you that they went to the gregorian and every single one of them believe in the weirdest things like cosmic christs and Omega points and all these bizarre T chart, tr to Shardini and ideas, and they'll tell you about the genius of Henri de Lubiac and and Carl Ronner. And I'm just thinking, I don't know, I find those people insufferable.

Speaker 1: 8:17

I think that places the Kremlin on the Tiber, should we read the decree from the bishop?

Speaker 2: 8:22

in Hawaii. Let's hear it Absolutely. Why shouldn't we?

Speaker 4: 8:24

Oh my God yes, you go for it.

Speaker 1: 8:27

If I had time, I would have translated it.

Speaker 2: 8:30

This says smart water, but this is pure vodka. I'm just ready for the show tonight. Let's go.

Speaker 1: 8:36

You came full Irish tonight. Huh yeah, For everyone used to the italian on this show you you get no italian tonight.

Speaker 2: 8:45

You get irish tonight. Pull up irish and english.

Speaker 1: 8:47

Yeah, oh my goodness, and then whatever jason is 100 texan.

Speaker 4: 8:55

100 texan aka half mex, that's right.

Speaker 1: 9:01

That's right. That makes a lot of sense. Okay, let me pull up this.

Speaker 2: 9:15

I can't imagine anyone in our audience doesn't know about this, right? Well, so apparently back in 2023, the bishop in Charlotte said he was going to put the kibosh on the Latin mass and it was supposed to be scheduled to happen in like October of this year, correct? And then this new guy comes in early April and just nukes it right.

Speaker 1: 9:34

Well, I guess let's read this and we'll go.

Speaker 4: 9:36

All right, let's do that.

Speaker 1: 9:39

Okay, why Jason?

Speaker 4: 9:40

No, no, I was just going to ask it. May answer it in here, because I I mean I read it earlier, but I don't remember. Does he say why he moved up the timetable on it?

Speaker 2: 9:50

uh, I'm not sure, and so we will speculate wildly, let's hear it adrian, I've got ideas I've got.

Speaker 1: 9:57

Can't read that comment, ad Adrian, but okay. So this is from. This is directly from the office of Michael Martin, the Bishop of Charlotte, and so it says in July of 2021, francis published his moda proprio, traditiones Custodis, which restored limits on the celebration of the traditional Latin Mass. That's in mass.

Speaker 1: 10:19

My predecessor, bishop Peter Jugis, requested and received an extension for the Diocese of Charlotte in order to arrange an orderly transition. That temporary extension expires this year and I am now ready to finish the diocese's implementation of the norms established in Traditionals Custodius. So, effective July 8th, the TLM will no longer be celebrated at parish churches in the Diocese of Charlotte. So, in accordance with TC, he is designating a chapel in the diocese where TLM goers may gather for the celebration on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation using the Missal of 62. The chapel set aside for this purpose happens to be a former Protestant church that the diocese have been renting out for events, so we'll take a look at photos of that later.

Speaker 1: 11:14

A priest of the diocese will be appointed as chaplain to be responsible for celebrating two Sunday Masses and Holy Day Masses using the 1962 Roman Missal. Those who are interested in participating in the TLM will remain members of their current parishes. Okay, here's the bottom. This is the best part. It is my heartfelt desire and prayer that this implementation of Traditionus Custodis will further promote the conquered in unity of the church. It is done such a great job.

Speaker 2: 11:44

I like how he put it in quotes, because he knows it's BS. That's great.

Speaker 1: 11:48

Among the people of God and the diocese of Charlotte, so that, as Jesus prayed to his father, we may all be one.

Speaker 2: 11:55

Yeah, and that's how they betray. They've been betraying our Lord like that all the time. They always kiss him on the cheek, lord, like that, all the time they always kiss him on the cheek. It's always like gotta be some, it's vagued in in some weird sense of wanting to be his friend, and and it's just so twisted and sick. Let me tell you something, uh, to the people who are behind this, to the bishop of charlotte yeah, this will be the thing that'll do it, way to go, yeah. Yeah, the traditional mass isn't good. It survived francis, it's gonna survive you too. You are. This is so pathetic, and so I think it might be even a desperation move, like maybe he knows something's about to be rehabilitated with this new pope, and so he's trying to go scorched earth before anything comes out. I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 1: 12:37

The timing is weird, though for me like so some people think he, the bishop, must have went to Rome and gotten permission to do it beforehand. I think, more likely, from what I've seen, I think it's this bishop and his ilk for lack of a better term trying to force Pope Leo right, because Leo hasn't had to deal with it yet. They don't know how he's going to respond. So if they didn't go and get permission to do this and I have a feeling they probably didn't then oh chat, okay, thank you. Then I think it's more likely that they're trying to force Leo's hand to see where he actually stands on this issue. Is he going to just ignore it and stands on this issue? Is he gonna just ignore it and let it happen? Is he going to?

Speaker 2: 13:24

I think the issue needs to be addressed because francis's ideology behind I mean, I've read trevithian as custodians, backwards and forwards, and I'm telling you, whatever reasoning he gives him, that doesn't even hold up to any remote set. It doesn't make any sense. I mean, let me give you an example. Okay, let me give you an example of one thing that's got to be addressed If you're going to make sense of any of this. My position and this is not something I've invented I've basically heard from Dr Peter Kwasniewski. I heard his argument and I sort of agree with what he's saying. The traditional Latin mass, as we call it, is the Roman right and everything else is something else. Okay, now, I agree with that. Okay, it seems like francis kind of does too, because you read and try to see on his custodians. He says how can people say that the missile of paul vi is not the roman right when it contains the very thing that makes it the roman right, the roman canon. And I went now hold up. Now, hang on, did he just say that every mass that uses eucharistic prayer number two is not the Roman rite? That sounds very close to what I believe. There are so many threads that if you just tug on them just a little bit, the whole thing unravels and it doesn't make any sense. And it's got to make sense at some point. And the Catholic Church just keeps digging itself deeper into this.

Speaker 2: 14:45

At no point in 1962 did anybody listen to anybody who said, hey, this is a huge change. Is it possible there might be some unintended consequences here? That discussion was simply never even allowed. That's very strange and a little naive. And so they keep digging themselves into this hole and eventually the hole is going to collapse on top of them because none of anything they're saying makes sense. It's all just well, put a gun to your head and you'll do it, or else. So how long can you really do that before that collapses? How well did that work with the biden health scandal thing? It's all out now, and everybody who said it wasn't is now running for cover and trying to. You know it wasn't me. I was always on your side on this and it's not going to be different this time. It's going to work out exactly the same it has every single time.

Speaker 2: 15:38

Why did Cain kill Abel? Because God accepted Abel's sacrifice and he didn't accept Cain's. And rather than Cain go back and do it the right way. He got angry, bitter, miserable and resentful and killed his brother. Now he has two problems. It's not gonna get better, guys. This isn't gonna be the thing that does it.

Speaker 4: 15:59

So anyway you know, I heard a lot of people talking today about you know, and we even read in the memo here that this isn't the. It was Bishop Martin, right, that's his name. Yes, bishop Martin's doing. He's just carrying on what his predecessor had already implemented and done, right, like he had no ability to stay this or whatever the case may be. And you know, I kind of, in some ways I'm like, okay, well, if you want to make that argument, that's fine, but the problem is later in the memo, the internal memo that was sent out, about how to answer questions.

Speaker 1: 16:38

Which we will go over.

Speaker 4: 16:40

Yeah, so, but that was nothing. When I read that over half of that is just gaslighting. It's just gaslighting people, it's adding fuel to the fire, like you're almost trying to force people to react in a way that justifies what you did, so you could say, look I. I said I'm doing this for unity. They're all mad're protesting, they're sending petitions or whatever the case may be. But I felt like the memo was one of those cases where a husband beats his wife and is like, well, this is for your own good and it was just pure gaslighting. And it really added to my thought process that he wasn't just carrying on what his predecessor did. Bishop Martin wants this to happen. It's part of his ruling now, basically.

Speaker 1: 17:27

And so as bishop he definitely could have gone to the Vatican for an extension. I mean, my own bishop went to the Vatican so our initial dispensation to keep one TLM in a parish church in our diocese expired last October. Our bishop went to the Vatican, under Francis even, and got an extension for at least another two years. Their original dispensation was set to expire this October. Then it looks like Bishop Martin didn't even try to get an extension on it.

Speaker 2: 18:09

That's what it looks like from the outside at least. I mean, he's the bishop.

Speaker 1: 18:12

He can do whatever he wants Right. For instance, down in Minneapolis-St Paul, archbishop Hebda, the parish I grew up in, he designated an oratory for the TLM. Then that mass can stay at that now oratory instead of a parish church, according to traditionalist custodians, all the things they have to do for a problem that they created of their own doing.

Speaker 2: 18:40

Ugh, you just can't tell them it's not going to work this time either. This isn't going to be the thing either. You know, I don't know. It's very strange. We're playing some weird games with the sacraments, guys, and one day we're going to reap a whirlwind for it. But it makes sense that the see, every heresy is really a battle for the soul of Christendom. Right Will truth prevail, or will error win the day? Okay, now we know how it's going to work, we know how it's going to end up, but nonetheless, every battle against every heresy is a battle for the soul of the church, and this is the ultimate one.

Speaker 2: 19:14

Modernism is a synthesis of all heresies. That's Pope. St Pius X said so, and so what is this about? It's about the mass. It's going to come down to a battle for the mass. This is about good versus evil. There is nothing that drives Satan more crazy than eating at the Lord's table. It's been that way since 33 AD. It's not going to be, and I'm telling you, christ will triumph. You guys are all lining up with dead men. I don't understand it. History is full of you know. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 19:47

Well, the comment that Rob just had, the one right before that one, let me go back up here and see if I can find it.

Speaker 4: 19:55

Yeah. So again, you know he claims there's no reason for an additional extension and would only make this process more painful. Again, I read that and y'all know me I wouldn't qualify what you would call a hardcore trad. Right to me, this isn't even honest Going for an extension to a group of people that you're obviously going to hurt. You know their parish life and everything else. It's almost like, even if you fail at it, you would like to see your bishop try to go to bat for you, right? So to me, when he says there was no reason for him to even go for an additional extension, it sends a message to me personally, I don't really care that much, so we actually have his answer right here.

Speaker 1: 20:48

First off, so this document itself is ridiculous. So this is a document the diocese sent out to. It looks like they're priests, or at least like the communications officers. So this is basically like the official talking points. It's like uh, the, it's like Pravda from the, from the Soviet Right. Right, it's what they're allowed to say.

Speaker 2: 21:15

So let's read what uh, Bishop probably contains about as much truth as that newspaper used to also.

Speaker 1: 21:20

Yeah. So let's read what Bishop Martin says, why he didn't ask for another extension. It says an extension is a temporary accommodation for a particular purpose. The only purpose for an extension in the Diocese of Charlotte at this time is to allow those who prefer the teatom to continue to celebrate the mass in that form in the four parish churches where it's currently being offered. That is not the purpose of an extension. Why wouldn't it be? Regardless of when we do this, it will be painful for our faithful pope francis knew that when he probably get a tc and still establish limiting norms. Asking for extensions when none are warranted only prolongs the pain. And I have the other, the pain and uncertainty to these faithful. Other bishops can have their own reasoning that does not necessarily speak to the reality in Western North Carolina. In other words, screw you.

Speaker 4: 22:15

What qualifies in his mind as a reason that warrants his petition.

Speaker 2: 22:23

I think I'm more horrified by what he stated. The actual reason was and this goes back to what I'm saying there's no problem they have with the liturgy. They don't know enough about liturgy to have a problem with the TLM. It goes down to it's those who prefer it. It's you. They don't like you. They don't like people like you. They don't think people like you are cool enough to belong to their church. You know, and you keep talking about this Nazarene carpenter guy and all of his moral teachings we're beyond all of those things. We're morally superior to the Son of God, and the traditional Latin mass stands as a stark reflection that we are not that, and so it's got to be eliminated so that we can continue in our delusion of ourselves. I like taking joy away from people. That's what he wrote. He wrote it right there. I like to take joy away from people because I'm an angry, bitter, miserable modernist freak that cannot stand that you have joy and I don't. He just wrote it, yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:29

The only purpose for an extension would be to allow those who prefer the TLM to continue to celebrate masses in their parishes. Yeah, correct, right, exactly. That's the point. Why would you not want that? Because he hates you? Because, yeah, I mean, that's the point. Why would you?

Speaker 2: 23:45

not want that because he hates you, because, yeah, that means that's bottom line, basically, and that's so weird when you think about the fact that he doesn't even know any of these people personally um, so mark, if you, if you don't like that part there's, there's, there's parts you're really not going to like.

Speaker 4: 24:02

You haven't read the document today at all, Mark.

Speaker 2: 24:05

I try not to. I try to the gaslighting.

Speaker 4: 24:10

I was talking about wait till you get to 1 through 5.

Speaker 2: 24:14

Sometimes I'm not even mad at it, I'm just like you know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 24:18

You don't seem mad.

Speaker 2: 24:20

Well, sometimes you can't get mad, sometimes it's just so. The other day I saw an Instagram clip of a Novus Ordo parish where they were. The priest was attempting to baptize a dog and I just thought you know, when you see that you go, you can't even be mad at you, just like touche Satan. Okay, I see game, recognized game, because that's amazing, like good, like you got to recognize a job well done.

Speaker 1: 24:46

I'm sure there are motu proprio's coming.

Speaker 4: 24:47

I'm sure that's what it is Go to heaven.

Speaker 1: 24:49

Implementation of TC will only cause more division.

Speaker 1: 24:52

It may even cause people to leave the church. So here's his response to that. It is clear that Francis's consultation through the CDF, in other words that survey that they say they sent out to all the bishops and most bishops either say they didn't get it or they answered it differently than the answers that they shared afterwards. So they're right away using a justification that everyone already knows is false, like everyone knows that that survey was sent out was bogus, a lie, a lie, exactly 100%. It was a lie, anyways, believing that allowing a more widespread celebration at the TLM was causing more division universally in the church. While it is sad that some may leave the church, it appears that the direction of the CDF recommended and Pope Francis required was implemented to cause less division over the long term. The truth of that direction remains to be seen and may be addressed differently by subsequent popes. While it is sad that some may leave the church, I as a bishop don't give half a damn that we are going to lose souls. That is what he is saying.

Speaker 2: 26:01

So I think there's something that I don't think a lot of people really understand. I think a lot of people think that modernists don't believe in the one true church, the Catholicity of the one true church. That is not true. They do, but you have to understand what they mean by that when they say that what modernists believe is that all the world's religions are erroneous, including the Catholic one. Right, but they all contain elements of truth and things like that. And so what will happen eventually is all the religions will merge into one conglomerate, amalgam thing, and that will truly be the Catholic Church, because it will truly be one universal religion. It's absurd, this is absurd. This is what they think of the Gregorian okay religion. It's absurd, this is absurd. This is what they think of the gregorian okay.

Speaker 2: 26:45

So when they, when they listen, when, when they see the decline in the catholic church, they do not look at the novus ordo and go, wow, this thing's got a huge flaw in it. It's causing the faithful to leave. They don't see that as a flaw, they see it as a feature. The destruction of the evisceration of the catholic church is the point. You leaving is the point. You leaving is the whole point. That's why I'm not going anywhere. I'm staying just to just to cause them grief, because they would love nothing more than for me to leave. And I'm not going anywhere. The day I hand the Catholic church over to these people is the day I will have a tag on my toe.

Speaker 1: 27:19

Yeah. So, adrian, we're going to get to the, the last part, where he tells the tlm people that they need to do penance, which is ironic because because him in the moderns don't don't see that's, that's pure psychopathy.

Speaker 4: 27:33

That's it really is hey, that's mark, it gets better.

Speaker 2: 27:36

It gets better, trust me good, it could always get stupider.

Speaker 2: 27:40

I know that oh better drew, you said the tlm subject should not become a political football. I totally agree, but unfortunately, the catholic church has decided to pursue this course, where they will allow it and not allow it every 10 years. That's not a decision that we made. I think it's a really stupid idea to do that. But the popes have decided to do this again, digging the hole deeper and making the problem infinitely worse. I kid.

Speaker 2: 28:05

I don't know why. I don't know why, if for no other reason, francis should have looked at, should have not done, traditiones Custodis, because he's like they just wrote some more in Pontificum. It's hard to make the argument that we have continuity with the apostles when we don't even have continuity with the last pope who's still alive. The catholic church is now changing so fast people can't keep up with it. No, we're not going to do this, but he didn't do that. He decided we're going to make this a deal that every pope has to deal with and some will allow it and some don't. I don't know why they did that yep, okay.

Speaker 1: 28:40

So here's what. Here's what they said people can do. What can people do? Who find the tlm to be a blessing, find number one, find ways to see the work of the holy ghost and the novice ordo. Work hard too, given that it may be more difficult to attend the tlm. Yeah, because you can't let them all. If we find ourselves holding on to resentment and anger while attending mass in a form that is not your preference, the less we are able to open ourselves to the gift of god's love that comes to us in so many diverse ways.

Speaker 2: 29:11

This is after he just banned a mass. That is not his preference. I swear you can't make this up. This is this is so good what?

Speaker 1: 29:19

why is it all? The uh, why is it all? The post-war boomers can hold onto their resentment and anger and cancel all of our masses, but you can't be just the tiniest bit upset at them, for it.

Speaker 2: 29:31

Listen, your excellency um, find the nearest mirror that you can find and stare deeply into it. The person on the other end desperately needs your help. Okay, Seek. You know, seek, help. I don't know if you're not taking the meds or if they need to up the dose. Something's wrong, Something's broken in you. Read what you wrote. You signed your name to this. You signed your name to this and you published it. You carry your father's name. Have some respect.

Speaker 1: 29:54

I like number two here Avoid social media where division is the goal, not communion. Avoid social media where you might hear the truth instead of our Pravda-approved talking points.

Speaker 4: 30:07

Where people are allowed to post what they think.

Speaker 1: 30:12

Unbelievable Reach out to a priest or pre-approved spiritual Okay, he doesn't say pre-approved, but this is what he means. I was about to say but Reach out to a priest or spiritual director to walk with you on your journey. No, I'm sorry, that's gay. I don't need anyone walking with me on my journey. They can hear my confession. That's what I need. I don't Okay. This last one. Is this the last one here?

Speaker 4: 30:41

I thought there was five, but maybe it was just four.

Speaker 2: 30:43

Renew your faith. No, there was another one. Oh, this is unbelievable. Yeah, this is five. Okay, renew your faith to the Roman Catholic Church.

Speaker 1: 30:54

Bishop, your Excellency, how about you try to do that first?

Speaker 2: 30:57

No sense of self-awareness. Narcissistic personality disorders rarely do that. That doesn't surprise me in the least bit, and I'm sorry, I'm not making rash judgments.

Speaker 4: 31:07

Here's the thing, doc, not me mark marcus said in our episodes before um, you know about this whole. You know getting communion with vatican ii you've got to believe. Do you believe in vatican ii? How they're always asking whatever that means, but market mark is always like how do they expect trads to be in communion and believe in Vatican II when they don't even themselves?

Speaker 2: 31:30

Yeah, they don't even know anything about it. Sacrosanctum Concilium is about restoring things. If you really go back and read that document not the specific ideas they had about how to do that, but the overall spirit and nature of that document it says, when it comes to the liturgy, we should restore old things that we know work and discard innovations that don't. That is not a ringing endorsement of what has become the missile of Paul VI, whatever you want to call that.

Speaker 1: 32:01

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:02

So Well, it is the Romanolic church that we're commenting on, and we do we don't have it because it's a universal church, wherever it is, but we don't live in rome.

Speaker 1: 32:11

Don't be, don't be obtuse joe joe's on. He's been. Did you live? Did you live in poland, in the 1940s.

Speaker 2: 32:16

Who are you to say the holocaust is wrong? Are you out of your mind? You're getting that's absurd.

Speaker 1: 32:23

That's absurd, come on it's canceled, mark joe.

Speaker 4: 32:27

Joe is being facetious mark.

Speaker 1: 32:32

Have you ever? I can't. I can't do it in the voice of douglas murray. I just can't. Okay, here we go. Uh, one of the reasons tc was promulgated was to stem a growing tide of tlm adherents who were denying the validity and legitimacy of the liturgical reform dictated by the. Okay come the novus ordo was not dictated by vatican ii it was a lie another lie of complete fabrication. Another lie. Okay, but if you wanted to stem a growing tide of people against that, you all have failed so terribly look at the comment here.

Speaker 4: 33:18

Why are you a Catholic? Were you there in 33 AD?

Speaker 2: 33:22

Yeah, exactly, you weren't there. If you've been to Mass, you were there. That's the thing. If you've been to Mass, then we are there. We're mystically present. Yeah, if we're really a part of this church, then it doesn't matter if we're talking about the Catholic Church in Norway, if we're talking about the Catholic church in in, you know, norway, if we're talking about the Catholic church in Charlotte or Houston or anywhere else, it's all it's. It's the same church.

Speaker 4: 33:47

Mark is not in a joking mood tonight, apparently.

Speaker 2: 33:50

No, not at all. When it comes to this topic, the, the, the myths and the lies have just been allowed to been just they on for so long and they're so infuriating and you just think, my goodness, is there? No, at long last. At long last, have you no decency? I? I'm reminded of that quote over and over again. At long last, have you no decency? You have degenerated into somebody who enjoys taking beautiful things away from people. This, this is a great question, why I would look in the mirror I mean, I don't know why.

Speaker 1: 34:21

are the bishops not concerned about the growing tide of Novus Ordo adherents who deny the validity and legitimacy of basic perennial Catholicism? Because that's the whole point of it, that's what they like about it.

Speaker 2: 34:31

It's a feature for them. I don't know why we keep listening to these people. They're the weirdest people on earth.

Speaker 1: 34:39

Let's see here. Many who participate in the TLM are in complete communion with Vatican too. How can you be in communion with an event? Um, pretty sure you can only be in communion with other people, right? Um, let's see here there are those?

Speaker 2: 34:54

what did he write?

Speaker 1: 34:55

let me, where is that uh many people are in the diocese of charlotte, are in complete communion with vatican ii.

Speaker 2: 35:02

Oh, incomplete communion yep, they're in and they're an incomplete communion with vatican ii. No, they're incomplete. Oh they are. I'm looking for it in the, in the actual is it 5 or are you in 4 still?

Speaker 4: 35:20

.5 is going to get you more riled up, don't worry we'll get there, don't worry.

Speaker 1: 35:29

Maybe do a TLM.

Speaker 2: 35:30

Many who participate in the TLM and the Diocesan Church are in complete communion with Vatican II Magisterium of the Church for Supreme Pontiffs and do not deny legitimacy of liturgical reform. However, there are those who do deny these truths. This is evidence most frequently in social media posts. Yeah, they deny the truths. I'm sorry that our congregations aren't perfect. I'm glad you don't have that. People who were annoying there. That's only something you're going to find in other people's parishes. If you really believe that, then you are the person who is like that. If you really believe that man, talk about a Pharisee. Thank you, lord, for not making me like these people. Holy cow man, have you ever even read the bible? Your excellency and all your advanced theological training? It's basic. You sound, listen to yourself when you say these things and you sign your name to them. These german bishops sign statements and they sign their names to statements saying they're morally superior to jesus. Can you imagine such a thing? Can you imagine that? That's insane. That's the most insane thing I've ever heard in my life.

Speaker 1: 36:39

I find, when I'm riled up like Mark is now, what really helps calm me down is a good glass of red wine from Requisites Cellars. So make sure you all head over to requisite sellerscom and use code based at checkout for 10% off. And uh, it's summer, so they also sell fruit. And uh, head over and buy some fruit too, along with your wine, Cause let me tell you what the bishops like these. You're going to need a lot more wine in your life, but, ironically, what's what's funny is the bishops wouldn't use this wine for mass because it's not invalid matter like the sangria they prefer to use in Novus Ordo masses. Oh my goodness. So requisitesellerscom everyone. Yeah, I am literally the worst at this.

Speaker 2: 37:35

No, that was a good ad read. I enjoyed that. That was good. That was perfect segue too, that was a perfect segue. Let's go to number five here because, wait, wait, I want to read the last part here. All of us can call him the Holy spirit to go beyond our personal preferences. You know, we could all do that, but some of us choose not to. In the heart of communion that is made manifest in the sacrifice of the holy eucharist, we could all do that, you're right, um. This is a. The ironic thing about this is this would have been a great letter for somebody to have written to him, um, and and I I would encourage him to read a little bit of his. Take a little bit of his own pastoral advice here, um, stop denying truths.

Speaker 1: 38:14

I don't know. So the, so the invalid wine comment. It was found, I forget what. There was a um, well, three parishes, right, because now they, they couldn't all survive on their own. So at some tri parish center, I think around k Kansas city, was found to be using something, something like sangria that had added it wasn't just a pure grape wine, add some fruit juice in it. So that was invalid matter and they had been using it for many, many years. So every mass done in that tri parish center for many years was an invalid mass. And we're not saying that the novus ordo as a whole is invalid, that's a whole other argument. But all of those masses were were invalid I think we understand.

Speaker 2: 39:06

I think we understand now why they're constantly on us about that validity question, even though it's very rarely, very rarely do you ever hear somebody talk about the, the validity of theus Ordo. But they are obsessed with the fact that we don't think that we got to sign all these loyalty O's and all these weird statements and make all these weird pledges that you better not challenge the validity. I guess we understand we're concerned about that, weren't we? Because we kind of they knew it the whole time and were terrified that we'd find out about it. That's going to be the next scandal that breaks that like 90% of the sacraments are invalid or whatever. That's going to be in the next one, and that'll be our fault too, don't worry. That'll be something that the traditionalists did to the church and you know we'll get punished accordingly, I'm sure. Yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 39:56

So, mark, mark, you want to. You want to read number five here? Okay, engage in some acts of penance and charity for the healing of the church. The more we go outside ourselves, the nature of love, the less we are tempted to demand that our own needs be the center of our lives it's funny because that second sentence shows he doesn't know what penance is or that he's only talking about charity.

Speaker 1: 40:19

He mentions penance and charity, but he only actually is talking about charity and he doesn't mean charity in the Catholic sense. He means charity as in secular charity. It seems like that's your, your Bishop, guys. Well, how are you?

Speaker 2: 40:34

going to put over what are you supposed to do?

Speaker 3: 40:37

What are you supposed to?

Speaker 4: 40:38

what is he telling? Cause he's not. He's not telling people to do penance for a specific issue or or you know anything that anybody specifically done he's. When I read this it seems like he's saying do penance for just attending the TLM. That is how it comes off, right. I mean, I'm sure I like to give him the bit of the doubt that that's not what he literally means, but that's the way it comes off as because there's no like oh well, you should do penance if you've caused disunity in the church or whatever. Well, how do you get over your TLM being taken away? Do penance if you've caused disunity in the church or whatever, saying, well, how do you get over your tlm being taken away?

Speaker 1: 41:16

do penance but not that rigid trad prep penance you guys are into. No, no, no, no. Not eating meat on friday. That's rigid and old school. No, your penance. Your penance is you have to go to such and such pride mass. We'll be holding in Charlotte, here at this date and time.

Speaker 2: 41:37

You know. It's even worse than that, though, because I can always tell you I'm not going to go to the pride mass. Yeah, but this is you telling me I can't go? They have absconded with the patrimony of the church and held it from us, and they have had no right to do so. They're going to pay for it one day. And look, you can get mad at me. I am not the cause of this. I'm just telling you what's going to happen.

Speaker 1: 42:08

Well, I don't know, mark. They said social media, as sure as.

Speaker 2: 42:11

God made green apples. You can listen. If you don't ask me, ask all the journos who covered for Joe Biden for four years. You can ignore reality, but you can not ignore the effects of ignoring reality. And if it makes you feel better to get mad at the guys at Avoiding Babylon or Tex Catherner or the people who, the weirdos who go to the Latin mass, whatever helps you sleep better at night, it won't change a thing. You wrote a. You wrote a kind of a bad mass. I'm sorry, I wasn't my idea for you to write this. I could. If you would have come to me in 1963, if I would have existed and asked me is this a good idea? I would have told you, no, there were plenty of people who did. You ignored them and did it anyway and it didn't work out. And it's maybe not everybody else's fault. Some of this may be on you a little bit. You know at long last any sense of responsibility over what's happened in the last 50 years. Or is it all avoiding Babylon's fault? You know, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 43:12

I mean Anthony's to blame for a lot of things. Let's not let him off, scott free.

Speaker 4: 43:18

But you just want to get that out there. When mark just said avoiding babylon, it's not me, it's you.

Speaker 3: 43:27

Yeah towards anthony.

Speaker 1: 43:29

Yeah, specifically specifically him yeah, yeah, exactly I just want to be very clear on that I mean every social media's fault. That's you guys, that's what you know everything I'm saying tonight was given to me by anthony to say I mean.

Speaker 2: 43:44

So you got an internal memo avoid social media where division is the goal okay social media was invented.

Speaker 2: 43:54

Social media was invented in like 2012, why was the catholic church in a 50-year decline, 50 years before that? I mean, do you know? I'm saying at some point is there any sense of, hey, some of this might actually be our fault maybe not all of it, but some of it and I think we have to start with our 50-year fascination with these weirdos. Let me tell you something. May I share something rob with with your audience on the screen yeah, yeah, is that?

Speaker 2: 44:21

is that cool? Can I do that? Okay, yes, okay, uh, this is a man named pope innocent the 10th, not a particularly uh am I sharing. Here we go, pope Innocent X, not a particularly noteworthy pontiff. He's more or less noteworthy for one thing he commissioned this piece of artwork, the portrait of St Michael, the Archangel that we're all familiar with. Okay, a great man, but not a bad man either. Okay, this is a portrait of him by Velazquez.

Speaker 1: 44:51

So not a Pius V, but not a Pius either, not really.

Speaker 2: 44:54

But I think it's interesting the way to which modernists would look at a painting like this. And what do they see? Now, we know from the catechism that art is a reflection of the interior of the artist. Someone who creates good art would want to bring beauty and joy into the art. That is the purpose of good art, right, to bring beauty and joy into the into the art, that is the purpose of good art, right. Well, so, okay, so that's the way, uh, velasquez envisioned his holiness pope, innocent, the 10th right. This is the way francis bacon, a famous modernist art artist from the 1960s, he was, uh, from the 1916 and 16, not right not no, he was not.

Speaker 2: 45:38

He was not an ecclesiastical artist by any means. He was, uh, but he was part of the modernist art movement. Not modernism, theologically speaking, okay, but nonetheless, this is how he, this is how he saw. This was his interpretation of you know, the I'm trying to find it here because I do have it.

Speaker 1: 46:01

You work computers like Anthony? Yeah, I know I do.

Speaker 2: 46:03

It's pretty bad but Okay, I might as well just show you this. I guess that's his interpretation. If you can see that this is Francis's his interpretation, if you can see that this is Francis Bacon's interpretation of that, that's what's inside him when he thinks of Pope innocent the 10th. Now I want you to imagine hanging something like this in your home. No, it's terrified, it's going to terrify the chain, it's terrifying me. But, boy, you put a red hat on somebody and they will look at this painting and just go, wow, we got to have that as the center, we're going to redesign the church around that. And I just it's okay to look at that and go, no, that's ugly, we're not doing that. That's absurd, it's not profound or sophisticated, it ugly here's the thing, mark, I know.

Speaker 1: 46:56

I know for a fact that none of our hierarchy would ever put art like that on their walls, and you know why their walls are too, too covered already with, uh, rub neck pieces I mean, it's an example.

Speaker 2: 47:09

It's just one example of a myriad of examples the sculpture that is in the, the building where the Pope gives his audiences, the one that terrifies small children. It terrifies me to look at it. Who saw that and was like, yeah, that's what's up, that's what's up, and and, and that that doesn't immediately give you cause to look at somebody suspect and with concern and like, whatever? Well, I'm going off on a tangent. Yeah, mark uses Wikipedia, that's what Lotta Creek gets you, it's true, it's true.

Speaker 1: 47:45

You guys want to. So one thing Charlotte is known for is the number of seminarians they produce is known for is the number of seminarians they produce. Do you want to hear, uh, bishop martin's concerns about the number of seminarians that might be reduced here, with lots here. So what if implementation tc will reduce the number of seminarians that are coming to the diocese of charlotte? Um, a lot of this is just bs. Let's see here, here at the very bottom, any young man who is only or primarily interested in the celebration of the tlm is not, nor has ever been, a viable candidate for ordination to the transitional diaconate or priesthood in the diocese of charlotte. But you know what? If're homosexual, send them right on over, we'll take them.

Speaker 2: 48:34

It's just unbelievable. It doesn't answer the question either. No, it doesn't. You never notice that? I mean they're concerned. What if implementation of Traditionis Custodis reduces the number of seminarians and instead he gave you a thing of well, nobody who's ever applied before and wants to be TLM exclusive has ever been ordained in our diocese. That and wants to be TLM exclusive has ever been ordained in our diocese. That wasn't the question we asked. I mean it wasn't the question you just asked yourself. Your Excellency, this is bad writing. I mean, you're an educated man. This is bad writing. You should have somebody review this. You really should have an editor, because I know you modernists all think you're the most brilliant things that have ever walked the face of God's green earth, but for the life of me, half of you aren't even as smart as the average person. You know that's a problem with somebody who knows everything they never bother to learn a thing that was written poorly. You should have had an editor look at that and you should be embarrassed.

Speaker 4: 49:29

Hey Rob. So Miss C asked earlier does Jason ever get to talk on his podcast? And I said not, not, you know as well as anybody else Not when Mark gets on. This topic is sorry, guys.

Speaker 2: 49:41

I'm going to. I'm going to shut it down and make some.

Speaker 4: 49:44

No, no, no, no, no, no, you're good.

Speaker 2: 49:46

I'm sorry. I hate people who hog the argument. I hate that. I know I don't.

Speaker 4: 49:50

I don't really have much more to add. I'm a lot more tame on this argument than yours. This is, this is.

Speaker 1: 49:54

This is what you're passionate about um, do we want to just get to the, the, the um standard? Mark robertson reading of uh quo premium yeah, yeah, we know that you don't need me to read that.

Speaker 2: 50:10

You can read it for yourself I mean I know I beat the dead, but it's quite a document and it says some things in there that fly in the face of everything you've been told about this liturgy. So I would encourage you to read it and then wonder why it says what it says and why everybody has to pretend like it doesn't say what it says. Mark his aunt with twang.

Speaker 1: 50:36

And multiple more degrees too.

Speaker 4: 50:37

Oh, my here's the uh here's. The thing is that I'm quiet on this topic, but uh, as you know from trivia, I um I've talked over anthony many times also, as we know from you, don't know how to count.

Speaker 1: 50:50

That's a trashy point.

Speaker 4: 50:52

You and Connor cheat. I keep count of my points right here every time I am that competitive. Yes.

Speaker 1: 51:03

So yeah, charlotte SSPX is about to have record numbers this year. So I have been to two SSPX masses in my life. One was down in St Cloud, minnesota, and that looked like a wonderful little parish I should say chapel and then the second was in Charlotte. And let me tell you like one thing the SSPX has and knows how to do well is like masculine priests. Masculine priest like this, this, this, you know young man, probably my age or maybe a little older, walked, you know, walked up to the altar with one leg because he had a prosthetic on the other one, and he did, you know.

Speaker 2: 51:44

you could just tell, you know, that was, that was a masculine man, you know yeah, I felt the same way about the fssp guys that I've known and that have serviced, that have been my pastors since I moved back to Houston and yeah, it's been a rough. Well, I'm not going to get into that, I'm just going to say that and I don't know why I felt this way and I can't really articulate, and maybe everybody in the comment section is going to think this is dumb and it probably is, but for some reason, when I saw the face of Leo the 14th, I just felt better. I felt like things might not be. I felt I didn't get the sense by looking at him that this guy's out to get anybody necessarily. I mean, I think I hear him talk about clarity and and at least you'll understand what he says. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm not and uh, I I just get a good feeling. I feel like I feel like the like this kind of a thing is going to come to an end under his pontificate.

Speaker 1: 52:48

So Bobby was at that mat, that SSPX mass in Charlotte, and Bobby is um. He goes to Eastern Divine Liturgy. That was one of the few TLMs I think he's ever been to. But yeah, that priest was definitely a badass, yep.

Speaker 2: 53:02

Yeah, yeah, that's good, I mean it's.

Speaker 1: 53:07

And was a real. So while we were in Charlotte for the what was it called the Carolinas Men's Conference of no, the Catholic Men's Conference of the Carolinas they had the bishop of one of the South Carolina dioceses there presiding, and they had to have him come up to north carolina to preside because bishop martin, instead of presiding over a men's conference, decided to preside over a woman's conference on lodato c. Okay, so quite the contrast to the uh based one-legged SSPX priest.

Speaker 2: 53:55

Yeah, I mean, and I can't even make a comment on something like that because I don't know how to. I don't have a good idea on how to deal with the pastoral needs of women. I'll leave that to people who are more experienced and know that better than I do. Okay, I'm not an unreasonable person, rob. I'm not some rat who thinks that everything that modern priests do is bad. As compared to me, I don't think that's true at all, and I really do think there's a lot of good bishops left in the Catholic Church. The fact that and I know nobody agrees with this yet, because some people just like things to be bad, but I think the fact that Leo XIV was elected in such a quick fashion shows that we haven't been alone in how we felt for a while, that there were, that other people saw what we saw, even if they couldn't say it, and you know.

Speaker 4: 54:43

Time will tell.

Speaker 2: 54:45

Time will tell, he's not he's not a rad trad and I gotta tell you I don't even think that would be a good idea. I would let me tell you I I would make a terrible pope because I would be francis, but in the other direction, I would sow division and everybody would hate me and I would not build the church. There's a reason why the Holy Spirit has put me. Nowhere near anybody who's ever known, anybody who's been close to the papacy, there's a reason for that, and I'm a cognizant of that. But I'm also cognizant of abuse is abuse. And this is being done because you don't like certain people and you want to cause them pain, and then, at the end of your statement, you basically punch them in the face and then you're demanding an apology from them for it.

Speaker 2: 55:27

That's pretty low and it's pretty sick, and it's by no definition of the word pastoral, under any stretch of the definition of that word. And so you're left to wonder okay, so what is the purpose? And I? And can I play along with it? Can I cooperate with something? Even? Yeah, I'm unhinged, that's fair enough. That's probably a fall, that's probably. I'll shut up now. It's probably fair sorry.

Speaker 1: 55:56

I mean I think we'll, I think we're going to find out a lot about leo with what happens here.

Speaker 2: 56:02

Um, I I have a suspicion nothing's going to be done and it will kind of just be trying to try to get swept under the rug, I mean I don't think that's necessarily a bad idea because, again, this whole deal where it's the hot potato from pope to pope, that's not a good solution and what francis did is basically set it up to where it could be. That now and I was like, oh, this is so bad because now the next pope's gonna come in and he's gonna be anti this and he's gonna then the next guy, and from whether or not you can go to mass at any given time will largely depend on you. You have nothing you can really hold on to. You can't build, you can't build a life of grace based on that. I mean, maybe you can, but it sure is difficult, because the vatican tells you to do something one day and then the very next day turns around and says, no, you're a bad person for doing that.

Speaker 2: 56:55

And I'd gotten to this point the entire last year where I didn't know how to live a life that was pleasing to God, because the same person was telling me two bits of information. He published this book called the Catechism of the Catholic Church and then, when he wrote things that were in the book, that was okay. But for some reason, when I read it and believed it, I was a bad person. I was rigid and I was uncaring and I was a mean person and I thought, well, it seemed to be okay for you. When you wrote it down, it says Liberia Iritrice Vaticana. Right on the cover, vatican Library Edition is what that means. They published the book and that was fine. I had no idea when christ's biggest enemy became the catholic church.

Speaker 1: 57:40

When did that happen? Wow, well you see in 325 ad constantine created the catholic church convert to palmarians.

Speaker 2: 57:49

That's a weird one, man. Whoever dxd 1500 those palmarian? That's a weird five minute masses.

Speaker 1: 57:55

You're in and out man like are they really five?

Speaker 2: 57:57

I thought they went back. I thought it all started as a rad trad thing like tlm stuff. Now it did, it's like some weird spanish. Uh, I know that rad trad said anything but I know that antipode gouged his eyes out or something like that, didn't he?

Speaker 1: 58:10

I don't know, but I do know their masses are about five minutes long.

Speaker 3: 58:13

Wow.

Speaker 1: 58:14

Yeah, wow. Think of how many cigarettes Pius X could have smoked before and after those five-minute-long masses.

Speaker 2: 58:25

I heard recently Leo XIII drank wine laced with cocaine. Imagine that.

Speaker 1: 58:32

I think he, he, they put his face on a bottles of wine that had cocaine. They did.

Speaker 2: 58:38

Yeah, that's awesome. Imagine just busting rails with Leo the 13th. That'd have been sick.

Speaker 1: 58:43

And now? Now we can commit ecological sin.

Speaker 2: 58:45

I'm kidding everybody.

Speaker 1: 58:46

Haven't things happened haven't things happened, so much better.

Speaker 4: 58:49

That could have been your sponsor back in the day. Probably could have been oh my gosh.

Speaker 1: 58:54

We need to talk to Requisite they need to come up with a new line.

Speaker 4: 58:59

Don't worry Me and Mark have been watching videos on how to make a lot of money.

Speaker 2: 59:05

We have a great show lined up for you.

Speaker 4: 59:08

A lot of money doing these runs, so we could help you out with your new line Jason and I have started a new business.

Speaker 1: 59:15

What kind of runs?

Speaker 2: 59:18

I'm not gonna name specifics. All I'll say is um, you want the cocaine wine? You've got the cocaine, it's, it's a second airplanes, skiff boats and things that can questionably be called landing strips out in the middle of the desert and you can draw your own conclusions.

Speaker 1: 59:33

Trump to what we're doing, trump's going to have to deport you too, I guess. Oh, he might, he might. It wouldn't be the yeah it's okay, yeah, I'll text.

Speaker 2: 59:42

I'll text, communicate him and those are juridically binding. Okay.

Speaker 4: 59:45

You know I you're binding and about being half a mexican earlier I am actually is.

Speaker 3: 59:52

I know you actually are half mexican, half irish.

Speaker 1: 59:57

What in the world did you do to to deserve that?

Speaker 2: 1:00:03

well, I mean like my mother's, not. I'm not 100 irish, but I mean like in that part of the world you know, england, scotland, ireland, it's all. No, no, no, all them people no, no, no.

Speaker 1: 1:00:14

Don't say, don't say we're the same as the irish.

Speaker 2: 1:00:16

Don't, don't you do that, don't you dare call the same as english they all, they all intermarried with each other and you know. So you go back far enough you'll, if you're from that part of the world. If you're from ireland, you'll find some english and scottish ancestry in there at some point. It's almost difficult not to. But yeah, on my father's side he was a Rodriguez, so his family were Tejanos, going all the way back to when Texas was Mexico.

Speaker 1: 1:00:43

So you can boast, you pray the most after you toast. That's amazing.

Speaker 2: 1:00:53

I can just picture it.

Speaker 1: 1:00:54

He's like let's excommunicate the pre-masons, let's do it um, do you guys have a little bit more time? Did we want to watch?

Speaker 3: 1:01:02

that uh jordan clip I'm in.

Speaker 1: 1:01:05

Do you think we should do that here on youtube, or should we go over to locals for that?

Speaker 2: 1:01:08

whatever you want to do it's your show, buddy it's not entirely obvious that watching jordan, I've been working on it but I can't quite get it. I can't get jordan peterson, I can't get the accent right should we get?

Speaker 1: 1:01:19

should we get obama to give us his opinion on jordan?

Speaker 2: 1:01:21

peterson, you can call him, but I don't know if he'll even answer at this hour. Um, I would have to. I'd have to jump off, you know because you can only have call right I Right, I'd have to you know, I'd have to reach out through my lawyer.

Speaker 1: 1:01:32

You have dial-up. You can't have the internet in the phone line at the same time. Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 1:01:36

A hundred percent. Yeah, it's all part of my off-the-grid network. You know, initiative to just not be, you know, not on the grid at all.

Speaker 1: 1:01:43

Okay, Mrs C says we should keep it on YouTube. Let me pull up the Peterson clip. So I haven't watched it. Jason, I don't think you've watched it. Mark, you probably wouldn't have even known.

Speaker 2: 1:01:57

I'll probably watch it for three days and be like Mark is living, point to a T.

Speaker 4: 1:02:06

He has avoided social media for the longest.

Speaker 1: 1:02:09

That's funny. So many of you probably saw brian holdsworth video last week probably wednesday or thursday where he talks about uh, when he was on with anthony and and um tim gordon. Well, yesterday we we get a text in our group chat from marks more or less like hey, you guys.

Speaker 2: 1:02:30

Yeah, all I saw was anthony's uh ugly mug in the, in the, in the, in the thumbnail, and I went oh, my goodness, brian, that guy's got a big channel.

Speaker 4: 1:02:38

That's, that's that's what mark does all the time, like brian, if you're listening.

Speaker 2: 1:02:41

I've always enjoyed your content and what you have to say, and I'd love to have you on the show, mark mark does that all the time in the group chat.

Speaker 4: 1:02:48

We'll be done. Well, I mean, we will have talked about it in the group chat and mark a week later it's like, have you heard? About this.

Speaker 2: 1:02:54

We're like guys I'm so I'm so deep in prayer and internal piety that I don't have time to deal with world with. No, that's not true. I can't back that up, not even remotely.

Speaker 1: 1:03:07

What the situation is jason's got like six kids and he knows like he's right with it, yeah but I'm wasting my time I wanted to be honest. It's the golfing, isn't it, mark?

Speaker 2: 1:03:23

I do. I do spend an inordinate amount of time on that frustrating endeavor. That's true. That's a that's the path to holiness, though, though I'm telling you.

Speaker 4: 1:03:33

I mean, mark, we went golfing for the first time, we did.

Speaker 2: 1:03:36

We went out and played. We had a pretty good round actually.

Speaker 1: 1:03:39

So by golfing and not being on social media, you hit point number two and hit point number five. Sounds like you're like the Bishop Martin poster child.

Speaker 2: 1:03:49

I've been working against you guys the whole time.

Speaker 1: 1:03:50

Mark is undercover Mark is undercover right now uh-oh, uh-oh unbelievable fed okay, so I got a like a minute long video I'm not watching the whole thing. There's no I mean not long. No, I'll watch. I mean I'll watch that, but I'm not watching all of j Peterson.

Speaker 2: 1:04:11

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:04:12

I can't stand the man.

Speaker 2: 1:04:13

St Martin, 177073. I'm at Tex Catherda, that's our channel.

Speaker 1: 1:04:19

Yep, yep, tex Catherda, you need to use that one intro more often.

Speaker 3: 1:04:25

Mark, yeah, I was thinking when I saw your drum intro, I was like Jason you got to make an intro, bro Dude. I was thinking when I saw your dumb intro I was like Jason, you gotta make an intro, bro.

Speaker 4: 1:04:36

I was about to try to you know where Joe Rogan has that little clip where he goes. Oh, you haven't seen the video.

Speaker 2: 1:04:39

Roll that clip, jamie, or whatever he says on it Jamie, pull that up.

Speaker 4: 1:04:44

I didn't have time today but I was going to take that clip. I made a mark, splice it with that and send it to you and say, hey, splice it with that and send it to you and say, hey, you've got to play this tonight, Wait where is that clip?

Speaker 1: 1:04:54

That's a short right.

Speaker 4: 1:04:56

No, no, it's not a short, it was just a clip I had on my. I probably posted it to my Twitter. Let me see.

Speaker 1: 1:05:02

Okay, you look while we watch this, jordan Peterson thing.

Speaker 4: 1:05:05

Yeah, go for it.

Speaker 1: 1:05:08

So this is Jordan Peterson on.

Speaker 2: 1:05:10

I think it's kind of like Peterson. You guys don't like Peterson Interesting.

Speaker 3: 1:05:14

I'm neutral.

Speaker 2: 1:05:14

I mean I can't say I agree with everything he's ever said, because I've not listened to everything he's ever said.

Speaker 1: 1:05:19

I just think he's one of those people that tries to come off way more intelligent than he really is, and what he says is usually really just kind of common sense, or should be.

Speaker 1: 1:05:39

But now that he's trying to get into the religion thing. He really shows that he doesn't really know what he's talking about. Um, okay, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm open to that anyway. So this is he's on something called jubilee, and it was supposed to be 20 atheists versus one christian, and they actually had to change the name of the video because of what you're about to see why is that relevant?

Speaker 3: 1:05:55

because you go to a catholic church, don't you? You've attended recently. You're interested in catholicism, aren't you sure? All right, are you familiar with their doctrines somewhat? Okay, you're you're familiar. How do they regard? How do they regard mary? Why are you asking me? Because you're a christian? You say that I haven't claimed that. Oh, what is this? Is this Christians versus atheists? I don't know. You don't know where you are right now. Don't be a smart ass.

Speaker 4: 1:06:17

Well, either you're a Christian or you're not. I won't talk to you.

Speaker 3: 1:06:19

If you're a smart ass, either you're a Christian or you're not. Which one is it? I could be either of them, but I don't have to tell you. You don't have to tell me. I was under the impression I was invited to talk to a christian. Am I not talking to a christian? No, you were invited to. I think everyone should look at the title of the youtube channel. You're probably in the wrong youtube video. You're really quite something. You are, aren't I?

Speaker 4: 1:06:41

but you're really quite nothing right, you're not a christian, I'm done with him.

Speaker 3: 1:06:49

Why is that?

Speaker 1: 1:06:50

relevant because you go to okay, so that's what it was yeah, I mean I don't, I don't have people like that?

Speaker 2: 1:07:02

I never would. But what do you think of? What do you think of his? What do you think of his response? I loved it. I'll tell you why. Why, why.

Speaker 4: 1:07:13

Yeah, I want to hear why.

Speaker 2: 1:07:14

There is. So I look at Jesus when he's talking to two different types of Pharisees. There's a Pharisee he can name Nicodemus, who is questioning what Jesus is saying, but not because he's trying to trick him or I'm going to trap you into some kind of a you know a rhetorical trap and make you look stupid or anything like that. I legitimately don't understand how can a man be born again and Jesus, when he talks to that Pharisee, is indulgent. He doesn't rebuke him for not having faith. He'll sit there and have the discussion, but when it comes to these Pharisees are well, what do you think of this? And the whole point of it is well, however he answers, I got him. He does not indulge those people and you shouldn't. It's pearls before swine. He's not asking him to give a testimony of his faith in anything. He wants to trick him or trap him or just berate him for something that isn't even true.

Speaker 1: 1:08:10

Anyway, I, I don't okay but they did enter into the whole thing on the premise that it was going to be a debate between a christian and an atheist. Oh okay, that's interesting, I didn't know. Like I said the the video was literally titled 20 atheist verse, one christian right, and yet peterson wasn't willing to even even affirm that he was a christian, like for me. Do you think that, peterson?

Speaker 2: 1:08:32

could take on a kid like that rhetorically and and yet Peterson wasn't willing to even affirm that he was a Christian. Do you think that Peterson could take on a kid like that rhetorically and make him look stupid? I mean, if he were legitimately, I think he could.

Speaker 1: 1:08:42

I think he probably could. I mean, maybe that kid, yes, but I think there's plenty of Catholics who would probably make Jordan Peterson look silly. Maybe. For me, the problem with Peterson is like you have, like 1 Peter tells us be ready always to satisfy everyone that asks you a reason of the hope which is in you. And Peterson's not even willing to say that he's a Christian or that he's not a Christian Right.

Speaker 2: 1:09:15

So that's what really, which means he takes it seriously enough to give it some thought, which I can appreciate, because I think there's a lot of people out there calling themselves something that they're not, and maybe I include myself in that as well. In fact, I had a conversation with the Lord recently where he informed me that a lot of my Christianity is very performative and I need to work on that, and he's not wrong. So maybe there's a little bit of that in all of this, but I've always kind of appreciated that he takes the question seriously. I mean, because what do you mean when you say that, well, you believe in Jesus, believe in what about him? Well, just in his existence.

Speaker 2: 1:09:49

Well, there are atheists who believe in his existence. When we say Jesus the Christ, what do we mean when we say that, well, a nice guy who basically just wants you to be nice to everybody. Oh then no, I don't believe in that. That's because it's not, there's no, there's no, that's a fictitious, literary character you invented, named Jesus. The real person is a very different, very different, different person, and we have eyewitness accounts of that, and so I I think I don't know. I see what you're saying now I do, but I think he doesn't know the answer to the question yet. Okay, maybe in a process of, because I know is didn't his wife convert to catholicism?

Speaker 1: 1:10:29

yes, yeah, yes that's weird that he didn't I mean I I agree. I agree that you're right that that, um, that he doesn't know what he is yet. Yeah, um, but then why is he going on a podcast as a christian to debate 20 atheists?

Speaker 4: 1:10:45

yeah you know what I mean? He knows he's. Yeah, that's the weird part. Yeah, I think he knows he's not bad.

Speaker 1: 1:10:51

He's monetizing his spiritual journey is what he's really doing. It might be it feels gross to me.

Speaker 2: 1:11:01

That's fair.

Speaker 2: 1:11:02

That's fair. I can tell you that. I know he does a lot with Jonathan Mageau and everything. So I know he says a lot of nice things about the Orthodox Church and he says a lot of nice things about the Catholic Church. He does not say a lot of very positive things about Protestantism as a theological or as a philosophical foundation, which I think is interesting, which I think means he's interested in what apostolic Christianity true Christianity is. It means he's interested in what apostolic Christianity true Christianity, is.

Speaker 2: 1:11:34

So I would describe the Catholic Church as a society instituted by Christ and in order to be a member of the society, you have to practice the society's religion. The society is the Catholic Church, and what is the society's religion? It's Catholicism. And what is Catholicism? Catholicism is Christianity and everything that is not. That is something else. You can go to a basketball game and call it baseball all you want. You're not at a baseball game, you're just deluding yourself. Christianity is a thing. Our Lord gave a religion to the apostles and that religion has been handed down to us, and I know it was handed by a single person. I can prove it Because the Orthodox and us have basically the same religion in very significant ways.

Speaker 1: 1:12:21

Okay, now you're sounding like Anthony.

Speaker 2: 1:12:22

Hang on, hang on, hang on. This is this is, but no, no, I'm not defending the Orthodox.

Speaker 4: 1:12:27

He's an orthodox.

Speaker 2: 1:12:29

What I'm saying is the Orthodox would never do something just because the Catholics were doing it. The only way that they would have a reverence for Mary, the only way they would believe in the true presence in the Eucharist, the only way they would have seven sacraments and not two, is if we all received it from the same place. That is historical proof that this is not invented at a later date. It traces back to first century Palestine, to a real person that existed, named Jesus of Nazareth, who history has shown really was crucified, really died. He was buried and then three days later, the tomb was found empty and the only accounting for his body were the apostles, who say that they saw him rose from the dead. There is no other accounting. There is no other first century accounting that says that was all bs. Because we all saw the body, we know where it is, we can take you there to this very day. That's how you get rid of the jesus movement, and they never do that. So that that story is true.

Speaker 1: 1:13:30

Well, I understand and don't necessarily disagree with that argument. I guess I would just say but there is doctrine that the Orthodox don't have, that they would claim is invented, but we would say no, 100%. We believe the doctrine of the Immaculate conception and wasn't invented when it was declared right right that it was always part of the church, right and was only in foul was only infallibly declared.

Speaker 2: 1:14:02

and when you think about it, though that is a very fine point of theological difference between the immaculate conception and the dispassionate conception. There's a difference, and I get it, but by and large the main crux of the story is the same, and that's significant to me, because we know it doesn't always end up that way. The minute you separate from apostolic Christianity Catholic Christianity, all kinds of things become up for grabs right, it is incredible how quickly things get off the rail.

Speaker 1: 1:14:34

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 1:14:35

And I'm just saying that the Orthodox would not do as many things as we do, just because, well, that's what the Catholics are. They don't like us that much, right.

Speaker 1: 1:14:45

Right. If there was any possibility at all, it wasn't taught immediately in the early church. They would be against it just because it's catholic a hundred percent, a hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 1:14:57

And and you find this not only in the greek orthodox community, but in the oriental orthodox community and in every branch of christianity everywhere in the world that christianity can trace its roots to the apostles. You will find this basic, this religion and no other. So you have to wonder I, I like I. I know this is controversial, but I don't believe protestants are christians. I don't think I, I don't. I don't see how you can do that. I mean to say well, they had. They believe in jesus. Well, so do the muslims? Right, muslims believe in the existence of jesus. They believe in Jesus. Well, so do the Muslims? Muslims believe in the existence of Jesus. They believe completely different things and so they're a different religion Makes sense.

Speaker 1: 1:15:39

Yes, yeah, I think it all depends, like everything, on how you define the term. If you want to say you're a Christian because you're doing your best to follow what you believe are the teachings of christ, okay then sure. But but protestants are not members of a of the christian church.

Speaker 2: 1:16:01

Ironically, that's what I would.

Speaker 1: 1:16:03

So right, but then they then they separate themselves from the church through both heresy and schism right, right, yeah, um, so it's, it's the.

Speaker 2: 1:16:13

You know, it's one of those things. But I mean, I, I, yeah, I see jordan peterson, I wish, I think like he wants to become catholic, because he says all these great things about catholicism but he doesn't do it, which makes me wonder and and he's even been asked, I think, what's the hold up, what's the what's? Because if I I've heard you talk and you have these great defenses of Catholicism but nothing ever moves you to pull the trigger, and what is the reason for that? And he's never given an answer for that. Maybe he doesn't know this one, but I pray for him all the time. I think he would make a great Catholic if he could come to know and love the truth as it has been revealed.

Speaker 1: 1:16:51

You think it's um and this. This is obviously just pure speculation on all of her parts, but do you think it's? It's due to like an intellectual stumbling block or intellectual pride, or do you think it's due more to like the actual, like moral demands of catholicism?

Speaker 4: 1:17:10

I think somebody I was going- to say I'm sorry, I'm trying to find that video. I think to me it has more. I would make the assumption that it's more of an intellectual stumbling block for him.

Speaker 2: 1:17:25

Oh hello, is this Avoiding Babylon? Good afternoon, everybody Is this former. President.

Speaker 3: 1:17:32

Obama.

Speaker 2: 1:17:33

Greetings from the former President of the United States. It's great to be here, everybody. Is this former President Obama? Greetings from the former President of the United States. It's great to be here, everybody. As you all know, Avoiding Babylon is one of my favorite shows.

Speaker 1: 1:17:41

No, no, we're done for.

Speaker 2: 1:17:45

Rob, you can relax. I haven't been president for some time. I've been spending my days at Illuminati headquarters. I often play Pinochle with Curtis Strange and the ghost of Tupac. The other day we were sitting there and I said I haven't checked in on my boys yet at Avoiding Babylon, so I decided to call in. Let everybody know how we're doing. Now DXD 1500, just called me a crook. Now you can't prove that now. Now you can't prove that now you ain't getting no health care.

Speaker 3: 1:18:19

I've already made the call.

Speaker 2: 1:18:23

I called my girl, Kathleen Sebelius. We've already revoked your card, so good luck paying that deductible buddy. Hope you don't get a cold and if you do, start eating Sudafed my friend, because did you just tell him Obama plays for keeps. This Mark person says that's not me.

Speaker 1: 1:18:47

Anyway, uh, Mr Mr President, I do have a question.

Speaker 2: 1:18:51

I've got the answer.

Speaker 1: 1:18:52

baby, how did? How did you personally celebrate the fifth anniversary of joy floyd's george floyd's desk death this last weekend?

Speaker 2: 1:19:05

okay, rob, you know, this is really me. I could get fired now.

Speaker 4: 1:19:10

Come on, man, the bit went too far bro it went too far okay, so apparently this video I made, it was made on valentine's day 2023 oh, no, did you find it oh, I'm about to, I think all right in my defense.

Speaker 2: 1:19:32

As you can tell, I am not great at living.

Speaker 4: 1:19:35

You have no defense.

Speaker 2: 1:19:38

I'd have some wine that night, not even wine laced with cocaine, just regular wine.

Speaker 1: 1:19:45

Speaking of. If you need wine, head over to requisitecellarscom and use code BASE for 10% off your order for great Catholic non-cocaine wine.

Speaker 4: 1:19:58

That's important.

Speaker 2: 1:20:00

Statement's not evaluated by the USDA Bell. Claim blades by Rob from Wood and Babylon are to only be taken as entertainment purposes only. Rules and restrictions apply.

Speaker 4: 1:20:13

I mean I've got it on my screen. I guess I could share my share your screen is it in a? Chrome tab uh, yes, okay, well, no, no, it's, it's all.

Speaker 1: 1:20:22

Uh, I just pulled it off my hard drive it's got to be in a chrome tab for the audio to work, so can you upload. Can you send that file to me through twitter, dm well, I was trying, but it's too hard.

Speaker 4: 1:20:35

I would have sent it a long time ago, but it's too hard.

Speaker 2: 1:20:36

Yeah well, we probably can't do it, so you know.

Speaker 1: 1:20:39

Do you know what YouTube video it was the intro for? Because we could just pull it.

Speaker 4: 1:20:43

Yeah, that's what I'm looking for right now. I mean, I have completely abandoned the show to find this video.

Speaker 1: 1:21:03

Do you think El chapo would sponsor us, oh goodness, in his money. So we will probably have to ask uh, what's his name? Um, father schneider, uh, of the legionnaires, if that would be just remote cooperation with evil, or is that more like the COVID vaccines?

Speaker 2: 1:21:21

Who is this person we're talking about?

Speaker 1: 1:21:24

He's a priest who wrote a lot of things about why you needed to take COVID vaccines and lost a lot of Catholics their jobs when they said it was against their religion.

Speaker 2: 1:21:36

The good old Legion of Christ Never fail and disappoint.

Speaker 1: 1:21:41

Well, that should have been shut down.

Speaker 2: 1:21:44

I can't believe that didn't get shut down. But okay, we get a modu proprio published about us in Reservatory Romano letting us know we're not really part of the church, but that's still around. Okay, I see what's happening here. I see what you guys think is a serious thing and what you guys don't.

Speaker 1: 1:22:05

Darren we don't talk about that. Let me tell you something.

Speaker 2: 1:22:08

No, no, no.

Speaker 1: 1:22:09

Yeah, okay, we've solved that problem. Nice and quick-like.

Speaker 4: 1:22:15

I've got to get back on the show.

Speaker 1: 1:22:17

Okay, you guys can talk now, geez.

Speaker 2: 1:22:19

I'm about you, you can't, you can. You can silence a truth teller, but you can't silence the truth.

Speaker 1: 1:22:25

I can silence the Iowa Hawkeyes, that's true, you could. Let's go to cyclones. No sir, no sir. Everyone appreciates your calm commentary on issues, Mark.

Speaker 2: 1:22:35

Yeah, well, nobody you guys invited me on the show you knew what was coming. You knew what was coming, especially with this topic.

Speaker 1: 1:22:43

What do we know? What do we know? Do we know?

Speaker 4: 1:22:51

What do you guys know the?

Speaker 1: 1:22:52

book about the flower world's prophecy. I've never heard of it. I know it's related to our lady of guadalupe, if I remember right, because flower, the flower world, has something to do with the old mayan religion, if I remember right. Um, so I don't know anything about it. I have a feeling you guys don't either. Never heard of it.

Speaker 2: 1:23:13

Great book. Mark has a great radio, thank you. Thank you, tim Gordon did a show I can. Yeah, I. I've been told I have a great Spanish language radio voice. You know, because I can. I could do that all day long. What did you just say? 93.3, 104.9 WFM. Más éxitos por hora. I could do that all day long.

Speaker 1: 1:23:37

What did you just say?

Speaker 2: 1:23:41

I've got the face for it. He's got the face for it. That's a good one. Right on time, buddy. I just got deported.

Speaker 4: 1:23:50

I know what video is on If you go to our YouTube channel and you find how Lent almost killed the Tradmen. Oh, okay, can you do it that way?

Speaker 1: 1:24:03

Yeah, I can do that.

Speaker 2: 1:24:04

Give me a second. This is not deportation notice in mail.

Speaker 4: 1:24:10

I feel like my absence in this show at this point. Well, with Mark's rant I've been absent the whole time. Anyway, I'm sorry but it's gonna, this will be, it's gonna be worth it okay, all right, okay, hold on this may be the greatest, greatest thing I've ever greatest greatest oh, and shout out to the diocese of North Carolina.

Speaker 2: 1:24:33

Shout out to the Tar Heel State, if anybody's in. I mean, we've been talking about you all day. I forgot to shout out to Jed Grady. Oh, and shout out to the Diocese of North Carolina. Shout out to the Tar Heel State, if anybody's in there. I mean, we've been talking about you all day I forgot to shout out to the.

Speaker 4: 1:24:40

It should be right in the beginning.

Speaker 1: 1:24:41

For those of you who have never seen a show from Tradmen slash, tex Catherina, this is what you're missing, so head over to Tex Catherina on YouTube and subscribe. Because, you are gonna want more of this right here welcome everybody.

Speaker 2: 1:25:13

To trap man, you're tuned in to the quiet storm. Mark and Jason are going to be keeping you company all night, oh yeah alright we're going to grow in holiness, we're going to make some noise. It's the quiet storm with Mark the shark on Tradman. I was aroused. It's the Quiet Storm with Mark the Shark on Tradman. I was aroused. Listen, I heard that and I was like that's deep. You know what I mean. That got me.

Speaker 4: 1:25:43

Hang on.

Speaker 1: 1:25:44

And then we got a comment in there from an old lady who said y'all shouldn't talk in these voices like that, because it gets us old women riled up.

Speaker 4: 1:25:56

Oh man, if I could find that well it was something like that that, that I tell you, that was um, that was about that was your second rendition, because right before that you had said something about we're gonna make a little love yeah, I know it was in that rendition, that was in that one.

Speaker 2: 1:26:15

Oh, is that the one that was? I didn't know what you said, so I just started talking and I was, and I asked you, I said make a little love.

Speaker 4: 1:26:20

And you're like, yeah, not to each other, of course yeah, man you're.

Speaker 2: 1:26:25

You're reading too much into fiducia supplicants what's hilarious?

Speaker 2: 1:26:31

so that was, that was before fiducia supplicants that probably prompted, probably the inspiration for it yeah, james, social media, you know I think pope francis heard that and he's like oh, I gotta do something for these two cupcakes we did have one viewer from italy, and we're pretty sure it was pope francis it had to be him. You know christopher west is watching. Well, you'll be glad. I have no idea who that is. So you really don't know who christopher west is. No, I don't know who anybody is. Who's christopher west? What does he do?

Speaker 4: 1:27:03

he just wrote a bunch of books on, uh, theology of the body and I think early on he got in trouble oh, that guy.

Speaker 2: 1:27:09

Yeah, he's the catholic kinky sex guy okay, okay, oh, he's the one, huh he sex guy.

Speaker 4: 1:27:15

Okay, okay, he's the one, huh Well, the most prominent one, I mean he wasn't in any orgies with cardinals in Rome or anything like that, but somebody once made it pronounced Italy, italy, italy, italy?

Speaker 2: 1:27:31

I'm not sure any of this.

Speaker 4: 1:27:33

Y'all have to. Excuse me, is my first language, so I struggle with it.

Speaker 1: 1:27:39

His second and third ones went much better yeah, my russian is pristine you know what's hilarious is out of all of us. You actually are like the world traveler yeah, that's true.

Speaker 4: 1:27:54

I've been quite a few places. You are the cultured world traveler I am, and that's the scary part like you've been to Dubai, kazakhstan. Saudi Arabia, oman, australia, of course, mexico, canada. What's funny in?

Speaker 1: 1:28:14

Australia. You had two people speaking English to each other not being able to understand a word.

Speaker 4: 1:28:19

You guys were saying probably I've told that, I've told a story like that.

Speaker 1: 1:28:25

No, I'm just imagining you and an Australian trying to speak to each other and just nothing working oh no, it worked out alright.

Speaker 4: 1:28:33

now I will say a lot of the stuff that there is a lot of words that they use, like so to go into the outback, you have to, you have to take a driving course, you know where you can drive, in the sand dunes, and all that. Yeah, so the first day this is my second day in australia and the class starts and the instructor's like you know, you've got a, you've got to switch to, uh, back to two-wheel drive. When you get on the bitumen, I'm like what did he call me? You know, I'm like what is bitumen and everything else you know, and so there's just You're not going to be putting anything on this bitumen.

Speaker 4: 1:29:04

Let me tell you no, no, my bitumen.

Speaker 2: 1:29:06

Touch my bitumen.

Speaker 4: 1:29:07

And so yeah, but you know, you just find out all the nuances of their slang and their language. But they do like a I won't say it, but a four-letter word that starts with a C quite a bit.

Speaker 2: 1:29:23

Oh yeah, the Brits too. The Brits too, they're loose with that one.

Speaker 4: 1:29:28

Oh yeah, they're super loose super um before.

Speaker 2: 1:29:39

So one thing I think we are going to start doing with guests before before you know, the end of shows is uh.

Speaker 1: 1:29:42

What did I do? First, mark what are your guys's favorite bible verses.

Speaker 4: 1:29:46

If you had to pick one oh my goodness, I need a heads up on this next time. It's actually.

Speaker 1: 1:29:53

Jason, you're a firm Protestant. How do you not have an answer?

Speaker 4: 1:29:57

You asked me what my favorite movie is. It's hard for me to decide because there's so many. I love the whole collection.

Speaker 1: 1:30:10

Okay, come on, pick a Bible verse.

Speaker 2: 1:30:23

I'm going to go withphesians 4, 24, and it actually is the basis for the prayer that, um, that somebody who's assisting in the mass would pray when they put on the surplus, the liturgical investment of the surplus, um that sounds pretty, pretty rigid to me and that ye put on the new man, which after god is created in righteousness and true holiness, and then the, the prayer, actually, I think, is even it kind of embellishes on a little bit, but it says it so eloquently okay.

Speaker 1: 1:30:45

So since that's your favorite, I want you to read it in hawaiian pigeon okay I ain't telling you my favorite verse yes, you are

Speaker 2: 1:31:03

you guys gotta start the live. The new, kind way. The way god make you for man I am gonna get so far for this. The way god make you act. You like him. The way you guys not to be porno for real kine and you're going to be good, oh my goodness For God, and live in the true way.

Speaker 1: 1:31:24

Awesome Stick to Spanish.

Speaker 2: 1:31:29

Yeah, I think I will, I think I will, I think that was.

Speaker 4: 1:31:34

That's coming from a guy named Seamus. Seamus Waters, stick to Spanish.

Speaker 1: 1:31:42

Stupid Seamus.

Speaker 2: 1:31:46

That was not good, I don't know.

Speaker 4: 1:31:49

It was perfect. Do it again, mark.

Speaker 2: 1:31:51

No, yeah, I am white. I am white. I am white. There's white Mexicans. There's more of us than you might think.

Speaker 1: 1:31:59

Okay, Jason, You're the one I really want to hear speak. Pigeon Okay.

Speaker 4: 1:32:06

What verse am I pulling up? I am going to give a very, very cliche answer.

Speaker 1: 1:32:12

If it's John 3.16, I'm going to stop you.

Speaker 4: 1:32:13

John 3. 16,. I'm going to say no, no, no. I'm going to say this because it's not really necessarily a verse but a section, because during my conversion and many, many, many years, all the way to my teenage years, it was always something that that bounced around in my head. Because it was. I always struggled to make it align with the different Protestant theology You're going to talk about the bread of life discourse. That is the one that I probably thought about the most growing up.

Speaker 4: 1:32:50

I think what is it? Is it verse 54? I don't know the verses by hand, but yeah, 54 is a good start.

Speaker 1: 1:33:00

Let me pull it up here.

Speaker 4: 1:33:03

I'm going to read it in Serum English Serum.

Speaker 2: 1:33:06

English Liveth and reigneth.

Speaker 4: 1:33:11

I can barely speak English, much less an accent.

Speaker 2: 1:33:14

I found a video of the Serum Rite. It's actually celebrated in Latin. It's a Latin liturgy the Serum uses. It's not really a rite, it's a use of the English liturgy. Just stop Last time you talked about the Serum Rite.

Speaker 4: 1:33:32

I don't know what I'm talking about. We heard from people forever.

Speaker 2: 1:33:33

people make up most of what I make up most of what I say. It's your job to go do research. Don't take what I say for anything.

Speaker 1: 1:33:39

I just all right, okay, jason, stop putting it off.

Speaker 4: 1:33:42

Come on, okay. What's the first word? Jelike, oh jelike. I tell you, whoever eat up my body and a drink, let me tell you my blood and drink my blood. They're to live to the max forever and I'm going to bring them back alive when that world is going to come. Paul, because my body does food for real kind and my body or my blood does drink for real kind. Whoever eats my blood and drinks my blood idiot.

Speaker 2: 1:34:13

No Lidat.

Speaker 1: 1:34:14

Lidat.

Speaker 4: 1:34:15

Oh.

Speaker 1: 1:34:15

Lidat.

Speaker 4: 1:34:18

Lidat stay tight with me, they stay tight with me and I stay tight with them. The father stay, live for real kind and he wins in me. Hey, I don't know. Oh, I'm still going. No, you can stop, you can stop. I mean, it turned into Dracula in the beginning I didn't think it could get worse yeah, I don't know I mean but is that a real?

Speaker 2: 1:34:41

is that a language? Not? Is that something that's recognized?

Speaker 1: 1:34:44

I don't know anything about it so pigeon languages are, I'm not gonna say fake languages, but they but they're like a transitional language for people who are just learning.

Speaker 4: 1:34:58

We have the Amazon right coming. We're going to have this coming soon, just so you know.

Speaker 2: 1:35:03

Amazon right. Yeah that'll do it, that'll be the thing.

Speaker 4: 1:35:06

Oh sorry, I shouldn't have said that.

Speaker 1: 1:35:11

Mark is back to the start.

Speaker 2: 1:35:15

Everybody's got the magic bullet that it never works out, but anyway, so Well, reading a Pinto, all languages are made up. I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:35:25

So, I guess, real question like and I've wondered this myself too Like doing these silly readings of scripture, I guess, in hawaiian pigeon, like is it, do you guys think it is irreverent at all? Probably?

Speaker 2: 1:35:41

I would think so. Then again, I'm, I'm, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 1:35:44

I guess he's a rigid trad though is it the reading of it that's irreverent, or is it the fact that it was translated into a fake language that was irreverent?

Speaker 2: 1:35:54

is that an approved first off? We shouldn't really, we shouldn't really read versions of scripture that are not approved by holy oh, it's definitely not approved, no, I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:36:03

Well, then, there you go, the kjv is not approved.

Speaker 2: 1:36:06

Who knows? Who knows who translated that? Who knows what that?

Speaker 4: 1:36:11

I'm gonna say this the usccb has come out with, has approved stranger things, right maybe maybe, but at least it's approved. I don't know, I'm being facetious there, um yeah, I don't know, I don't know scripture is a big deal.

Speaker 2: 1:36:26

You know that. Wow everybody gets mad at me when I talk about jews, but they don't touch the words. You shouldn't touch the words. You know what I mean? And that's just the word of God reduced to writing. People handing out communion in the hand.

Speaker 4: 1:36:44

It looks like Bishop Martin was right. We need to do penance. It's just coming on, ab, it's coming on AB.

Speaker 1: 1:36:54

Now we have to. You can't give us this bit and then rug pull.

Speaker 3: 1:36:59

Babylon to big town away yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:37:01

And revelation when it talks about Babylon, they call it Babylon to big town. Yeah, I probably should confess it, shouldn't I?

Speaker 2: 1:37:11

Just in case, I don't think your intention. I think your intention was to make fun of people who didn't like to be fair, I'm not making fun of people. Yeah, I'm not even making fun of hawaiians no, you're making fun of biblical people who write this biblical translation and because they think that I know what you're doing, right, I I get what the intention was. I I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's not irreverent. I mean ask him.

Speaker 1: 1:37:38

Cause I do tend to I do tend to to agree with Mrs C here, like we are saying it in a mocking tone. Well, now, we're not mocking scripture. We're not trying to. We're mocking the fact that some cause. We're mocking the fact that some because you know some leftist academic somewhere that translated this into a language that's not even used, right, yeah, so that's what we're trying to mock, but we are using scripture to do so.

Speaker 4: 1:38:05

Yeah, probably not wise.

Speaker 2: 1:38:07

I think translations into profane versions of languages's there's a way to translate it into english, but there are also versions of english which are not befitting the gospel and not befitting the text.

Speaker 1: 1:38:23

You know what I mean like, uh, the message translation and things like that, where it's.

Speaker 2: 1:38:27

You know slang, english more, right, right exactly slang and and I think, and also it's it's pretty presumptuous, and this is always where they start from. They start from this position of jesus needs me to to spread his message to people, because people aren't going to connect with jesus. It's me they're going to find charismatic, it's my uh, you know, when jesus is gone, I'm his pr person that comes out and tells everybody no, he doesn't really mean all those things, you know, and because, if, because, if I intercede, I'll attract everybody, jesus just puts people off. Man, that's highly presumptuous of you. That is not true. That that this is a religion that has converted the world to itself and it did so all without you. You know what I mean. What is this?

Speaker 1: 1:39:22

hold on, there's a new. Oh no, oh no. We can't have this.

Speaker 3: 1:39:29

This is bad we can actually show the all the comments coming in on screen oh, nope nope, our audience is gonna misuse that.

Speaker 1: 1:39:38

We are taking that away. I guarantee an end's gonna appear in the chat in the next five seconds. Yeah, yep, taffy, I knew it but then again.

Speaker 2: 1:39:51

Okay, but hang on, rob, but here, because did jerome do what I'm talking about? I mean, the reason it's called the vulgate is because it was translated into the vulgar tongue, which was latin at that time. At that time, the proper liturgical, the proper scriptural language is greek, and that's what was read in the churches and everything at the liturgy. So am I? Yeah?

Speaker 1: 1:40:17

yeah, I, I get that right, but hawaiian pigeon isn't. I don't know is it?

Speaker 2: 1:40:26

yeah, I know it's a weird question. It's an interesting one. There's something it doesn't seem right to me, but I can't really articulate why.

Speaker 1: 1:40:36

So maybe I'm in the wrong. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe we just won't do it. Mysterious North Carolina that's an interesting username there.

Speaker 2: 1:40:47

That's what's been negative translation. Sound like to people in the Middle Ages? Yeah, maybe.

Speaker 4: 1:40:51

It's not a language, it's slang, is what Joseph said.

Speaker 1: 1:40:57

Yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 1:40:59

Yeah, so, yeah, so yeah the vulgar tongue.

Speaker 1: 1:41:01

Okay, odd, you know wasn't vulgar in the way like I see that makes yeah yeah, yeah, it's not.

Speaker 2: 1:41:07

it's not a. Well, I mean again, I don't know if there's anybody who knows more about the translations of this of. You know how Jerome compiled the Bible Exactly? They could probably tell you better than I could. That's, that's an area of church history I would really love to know more about. I would love to know more about Jerome's process in translating and doing this monumental work of translating the scriptures into Latin. It's a translation that we use to this very day. Jerome's translation is still the official Latin translation of of the Bible. That's amazing.

Speaker 1: 1:41:45

Well, gentlemen, that's all I got. I don't have anything else.

Speaker 4: 1:41:51

But let me, let me. Let me just say one thing on a more serious note, since today is Memorial Day. We also remember the Catholic chaplains. I was today absolutely.

Speaker 2: 1:42:06

You sure have got a meal to pawn.

Speaker 1: 1:42:08

Get it closer your stupid green screen. You're muted. Can you hear me?

Speaker 4: 1:42:21

Yes, so I just wanted to bring up awareness that people don't know about Father Emil Capon. He was just became a venerable what a month or two ago he was a? He was a, an american chaplain out of wichita kansas died during the korean war, and I'm not gonna go into his whole story. You can find stories of him online, and even me and mark did an episode about it early on in our podcasting career. Um, if you don't know about this, uh, this great cath, this great man, this great priest, please look him up, find out more about him and if, after learning about him, you feel it in your heart and a need to pray for his eventual canonization.

Speaker 1: 1:43:07

His story is amazing.

Speaker 2: 1:43:09

It really is. It's incredible, and so all the people who've given their life for their country. It's a noble thing to do, do I don't care what modern sensibilities say about that.

Speaker 1: 1:43:20

It's a noble catholic thing to do you guys should do like a follow-up episode in that series for on father capadano, who was chaplain during the united yeah, we should.

Speaker 2: 1:43:34

I was going to think we should have Alex Bielekowski back on the show. Yeah, he's a good dude, great military historian and a good Catholic.

Speaker 1: 1:43:45

Do you guys want to push your channel one last time?

Speaker 2: 1:43:50

Well, I just want to say one more thing to the people of Charlotte Just keep the faith. This isn't going to last. This isn't going to be the thing either. Just hang in there, hang in there. God is on our side on this one, so that's it.

Speaker 4: 1:44:02

Oh, rob, let me say Christian here. Father Capon should be a saint and have the Medal of Honor. He does have the Medal of Honor. It was given to his I. He does have the Medal of Honor. It was given to his. I can't remember one of his relatives. Obama actually ended up giving it to him and if you watch the video online of the Medal of Honor, you're welcome. By the way, if you watch the video.

Speaker 2: 1:44:29

Not that I get any credit for anything.

Speaker 4: 1:44:33

The Medal of Honor presentation. I think sergeant miller was his name. The guy that that he saved was in attendance. Uh, during that, I mean he was still alive at the time oh really and uh, you know, obviously he was an old man at that point, so you know, it speaks volumes um to the man that he was and a lot of the guys that went to camp with him the pow camp, uh were in attendance, so you can actually see the the video of obama presenting the medal of honor paul, neither jason nor I were in the military I was in I if I was, if I was going to be in the military, I would have been in meal team six.

Speaker 2: 1:45:22

All right, that's all I got. It was great coming on, guys and thank you. Thank you for letting me vent. I'm hope. I'm hope it was as entertaining to watch as it was to say well to have you guys on a sometime soon with Anthony.

Speaker 1: 1:45:32

I know Anthony. I know Anthony wished he was to say well to have you guys on uh sometime soon with anthony. I know anthony uh. I know anthony uh wished he could have been here for this one, but we'll all get to hear about a thousand stories of him in greece.

Speaker 4: 1:45:43

So so the crazy thing is I was trying to be a lot more tempered in this subject matter, to be smart and what I say, and then you had me read hawaiian pygmy. It's just shot the whole thing out of the water and I didn't even matter anymore.

Speaker 1: 1:45:57

Well, do you want to go back and now rant about some of the stuff you were trying to be tempered on?

Speaker 4: 1:46:02

No.

Speaker 2: 1:46:05

All right, good talk, good meeting.

Speaker 1: 1:46:09

Seamus says please pray for a friend of mine who went to our Lord today. He was a general of the North Dakotaota national guard and served in iraq during operation iraqi freedom. Um, so, yes, everyone, pray for seamus's friend. Thank you, seamus. Um, yeah, so thank you guys for coming on. It's, it was fun. It's been a long time and, uh, we'll have to do again. Jason, no matter how many times you say you'll get back to us, we're going to just keep pestering. That's right, okay, thank you all.

Speaker 3: 1:46:42

And I don't know when.

Speaker 1: 1:46:43

Anthony gets back from Greece. We may or may not have another stream later in the week. Might be me, might be me and Ant. We'll see. But anyways, thank you all and have a great night. Thank you.