Avoiding Babylon
Avoiding Babylon was started during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic. During these difficult and dark days, when most of us were isolated from family, friends, our parishes, and even the Sacraments themselves, this channel was started as a statement of standing against the tyrannical mandates that many of us were living under. Since those early days, this channel has morphed into an amazing community of friends…no…more than friends…Christian brothers and sisters…who have grown in joy and charity.
As we see it, our job here at Avoiding Babylon is to remind ourselves and those who enjoy the channel that being Catholic is a joyful and exciting experience. We seek true Catholic fraternity and eutrapelia with other Catholics who, like us, are doing their best to live out their vocation with the help of God’s Grace. Above all, we try to bring humor and joy to the craziness of this fallen world, for as Hillaire Belloc has famously said:
“Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s always laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!”
Avoiding Babylon
The Eve of the Most Important Conclave in History?
As Cardinals gather for what may be the most consequential papal election in centuries, the Catholic Church stands at a defining crossroads. The conclave beginning May 7th occurs amid unprecedented circumstances – 80% of voting Cardinals were appointed by Pope Francis, yet most have never met each other due to Francis's unusual decision never to convene a full consistory.
Behind the scenes, surprising dynamics are emerging. Reports suggest even Cardinals previously loyal to Francis are experiencing "fatigue" with his progressive agenda. Cardinal Maradiaga allegedly left Rome in anger, accusing fellow Cardinals of being "Francis turncoats" unwilling to continue his revolutionary path. Meanwhile, Cardinal Stella, once among Francis's closest advisors, publicly criticized aspects of his papacy immediately after his death.
The possibility of deadlock looms large. With the requirement for a two-thirds majority (89 votes) and deep ideological divides, finding consensus could prove extraordinarily difficult. Traditionalists see this potential delay as positive – the longer the conclave, the more likely Cardinals will resist progressive candidates and seek compromise.
What makes this moment truly pivotal is the recognition that the Church already exists in a state of material schism. The election outcome could either formalize this division or begin healing it. If a traditional Pope emerges, progressives might revolt; if another revolutionary is chosen, traditionalists may reach their breaking point. Several Cardinals have emerged as serious contenders, including the surprising possibility of Patriarch Pizzaballa of Jerusalem, whose election on May 13th (Feast of Our Lady of Fatima) would carry profound symbolic weight.
Whatever the outcome, faithful Catholics face a continuing struggle – either fighting alongside a traditional Pope against worldly opposition or persevering under hostile leadership. As we await white smoke above St. Peter's, join us in praying that the Holy Spirit guides these men to choose a shepherd who will lead the Church back to its foundations rather than further into revolution.
Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/
Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/
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Speaker 2:Alleluia, alleluia, alleluia, alleluia, alleluia, alleluia, alleluia, alleluia. You guys ready for 20 years of that.
Speaker 1:You guys ready for?
Speaker 2:it Rob's out. He's tapping the side.
Speaker 3:He doesn't even want to sit around.
Speaker 2:It is the eve of the most important conclave in the history of the church, if you ask me, I don't even think that's an understatement. Does anybody disagree with that statement? I mean, I really think this is the most important conclave in the history of the church, but I'm also a narcissist and I think everything's about me, so maybe I'm a bit wrong.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I'm glad I didn't have to say that this time.
Speaker 2:Michael, how have you been brother?
Speaker 4:Tired. I was on a trip this past weekend and I came back. I barely got any sleep the entire time, so I'm catching up.
Speaker 2:How come you didn't head to Rome? I would have thought LaPonta would have had somebody to send you over there.
Speaker 4:What am I going to do over there? I'm going to out and and talk to. You know, talk to press and and be a self-sucking uh attention I have such a promo right now, man there are. There are journalists over there who have a reason to be there and and that's great, they're reporting on what's going on. Um, there are some people that have the ability to to reach a larger crowd, maybe, and encourage people in Rome to pray, but, quite honestly, it would serve no purpose for me to be there.
Speaker 2:It just other than to be there for the excitement of the white smoke, because yeah, look I.
Speaker 4:I am looking forward to the next pope as much as anybody. I've been looking forward to the next pope for 12 years. Um, but the fact of the matter is that, um, I I'm not going to be able to affect that at all and I I don't need to be in saint peter's square to to participate spiritually, so I just didn't see the point in being there.
Speaker 2:It's a lot.
Speaker 1:They say gambling on the election used to be you could be excommunicated. Is that still the case if the Pope ends up being an inveterate gambler himself?
Speaker 4:I don't know. I'll ask Cardinal Tagli if he has any.
Speaker 2:So I actually had somebody reach out to me and they just DM'd me and they said this might be a last-second mudslinging, but there seems to be quite a few last-minute points of interest about some Papabili. Apparently, cardinal Tagli very much likes to gamble, but honestly, I grew up with mostly polynesians and filipinos, and filipinos love to gamble and sing karaoke, so maybe he is just being a filipino you go to the the horse track it's um.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he's chinese um, well, I.
Speaker 2:So I was on with gordon yesterday. We were talking about like so many of these stories are last ditch efforts to influence the concrete. Sure, like they just are, because these guys don't know each other and their only exposure to these guys is the media. A lot of the times, you know so, they see a front page story on on the Times of Rome or whatever newspapers over there and it's like like whoa, I don't know if I want to go with this guy. You know, hey, great to see hitch and I love rob and anthony. God bless you all. Now, I don't know if that's katherine. Uh, it's probably katherine. Katherine probably runs that account.
Speaker 1:She's up late, um but uh, he's still in tennessee, or did they go back?
Speaker 2:no, no they, they headed home right I assume so yeah, I saw they put a video out with Dr Kwasniewski. Today I saw a short, short video with them. So, um, now, um, I am, um, let me just see, okay. So, michael, I've I've been bouncing between um hope and not not, despair. Doom, like hope in that maybe God will work something in this conclave, and doom, just looking at the human element, like, okay, this is not going to go well because we've seen what the past 12 years have been. Now this carnage could continue on. The revolution could continue. It's a very strong possibility that it will. But I reached out to you and I said because I have a few theories too, but I was interested in hearing what your theory was not a theory, but your, your, your your initial impressions.
Speaker 4:So the best I can give you is an educated guess. Yeah, um, I I better than anthony is uneducated guess, that's true. I don't have a crystal ball. I can't see into the future. I don't have any mystical powers. So the best I can say is I'm looking at the current situation as it is From a purely human standpoint.
Speaker 4:I think we get a moderate at worst, at worst, yeah, at worst, um, and that's just from a purely human standpoint. And the reason for that? First of all, most of the Cardinals don't know each other. They've never met, uh, there's never been a consistory. So when Pope Francis would elevate these people to as Cardinals, the only ones that would get to know each other were the ones that were being elevated at the same time. That's it. So they don't know each other.
Speaker 4:I think that even those who were supporters of Francis the last time around are suffering Francis fatigue fatigue. Cardinal Maradiaga, allegedly yesterday, left Rome in a huff because he was accusing people of being Francis turncoats. He didn't think that they were supportive enough of Francis's regime and his program. So I think that there is Francis fatigue, even among the cardinals. So this is one of the reasons why I think we're going to get a moderate at worst when it comes to voting.
Speaker 4:They're going to be going over names. They're going to have a bunch of different people that they put forward and at first it's going to be a huge number because, again, each other, they're going to elevate their buddies. First it's going to be a huge number because, again, each other, they're going to elevate their buddies. They're going to say, ok, well, actually, I really kind of like what this guy says, or I like where this guy stands on things. He's a prominent figure. I've seen him out there before. I'll put his name on the ticket, but it's going to be a large smattering. It's going to be a long list of people that get nominated and that that list is going to be winnowed down as time goes by. Now let me say, the longer it takes for them to come to a conclusion, the better it is for us.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Because that means one of two things, one, or it means several things at the same time. One it means that there is no united front that is allowing a block for the leftists. It also means that the individual cardinals really don't have a clue who they should pick, and they'll be working things out and debating and putting forward nominees and it's just going to keep going on and on and on. Now there are rules that say that at some point they have to say, ok, everybody who had this number of votes. And no, you know they, they stay on the ticket and we keep voting that way, but it still has to be two thirds majority. Keep voting that way, but it still has to be two-thirds majority. Yeah, so if you have two candidates, if it's 50 50, it could be gridlocked, yeah, while. And then at some point they may even say, okay, we can't do these two candidates anymore because it's locked. 50 50, that means they got, they got to go to a whole new system and say, okay, let's just nominate anybody and then we'll pick two others and say you two are on the ticket and we'll run you. So again, the longer it goes, the better it is for us.
Speaker 4:I think that, and again, this is just from a human standpoint. 80% of the cardinals that are voting were chosen by Pope Francis. 80% of the Cardinals that are voting were chosen by Pope Francis. That's not a good thing from a human standpoint, but I don't know that he actually knows who all those guys are. He went way out of his peripheries. It's not like he's taking a poll and saying, okay, now who is most supportive of synodality and you're the one I'm going to pick. We don't really know. We don't know what criteria he used for choosing these cardinals. A lot of times it was like who's this guy?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, somebody somebody's pointing out that the cardinals needed the synods. Francis didn't invite the cardinals to the synod. That's the craziest thing, like he did all these synods every year, or every. You know, there were three year in a row periods where he had all these bishops and laity coming to rome and did not invite the cardinals to come, which is a very interesting thing, because before the conclave that elects francis, there was the saint gala mafia meeting regularly to make sure they got their guy, and that is not the case this time. Those guys are pretty much all gone and it's it's a whole.
Speaker 4:okay. So there there is still an underground of individuals, a network of of hardcore leftists, and I would say the soup bitches tobin's, mackleroy's um, I wouldElroy's Um, I would put. I don't know if I would put toggling in that group. I think toggling is just a clown. Um, zuppi Holerick, I would put in that, in that camp. Uh, car Cardinal marks, I would put in that camp. So these are your hardcore leftists who are trying to wreck the church. I think to wreck the church, I think. I think it's their intention to actually wreck these are.
Speaker 2:I don't mean to talk over you, Michael, I'm sorry. Everybody gets mad. These are the men that that Cardinal Mueller said this is a hostile takeover of the Catholic church. When he saw these men being elevated, cardinal Mueller was like this is a hostile takeover of the Catholic church we're witnessing right now.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So I think that the cadre of the hard leftist is a small group. They're going to vote as a block, but they're small and they're certainly not going to get two thirds. And I think that, because of the popularity, the publicity of who they are in public is going to cause those Cardinals who are at least moderate to look at them and say, whoever they pick, I'm not picking.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And that's a great big I mean, that's a huge move. Whoever they support, I'm not supporting.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So you know, the politicking that goes on in a conclave is pretty incredible. It's the most political thing you've ever seen in your life and I've never been to one, I've only read about them.
Speaker 2:It's all these deals being made right. So I made the point that in the last conclave that elected Francis, you had a lot of naivete, like these guys didn't know who he was. So once he had kind of a ground swelling, he was a new face. I think they went in and they were like all right, we just went through John Paul II and Benedict. You know we'll trust that the Holy Spirit is going to guide the church on this same trajectory, whereas after going through the last 12 years, I don't think the more conservative cardinals are going to. They're going to be 100% on their guard. They're going to go into this saying we're putting our foot down. We are not allowing another revolutionary in this spot. I'm praying that's the case.
Speaker 4:That's absolutely the case. I'm sure you know, edward Penton and Diane Montagna put together a booklet of profiles of, I think, 30 or 40 different Cardinals, a lot of them public, you know, the papabile, the ones that were most expected to be put on a ticket somewhere and they profiled them and they said where do they stand on synodality, where do they stand on LGBT stuff? Where do they stand on communion for divorced and remarried? So all of the hot button issues within the church right now. They put in those profiles so that and they handed out a bunch of them, I think they handed out 30 or 40 of them when the cardinals first arrived and they saw people in cafes, you know, just thumbing through, looking at these profiles, because they don't again's, they don't again, they don't know each other and they want to get to know each other did you see the way?
Speaker 2:did you see the way cnn presented that whole scenario?
Speaker 4:I heard about it, but I didn't read I didn't rob.
Speaker 2:You want to bring that article up? We'll take. We'll just take a glance at it real quick, yeah, um. So when the cardinals entered the sistine chapel on wednesday at the start of the conclave the process of electing a new pope they will be sealed off from the world, but that doesn't stop people from trying to influence the thinking of the prelates who will choose a successor.
Speaker 2:The electors are allowed to take in written materials and, in the days leading up to the conclave, have been offered a book on their fellow cardinals, one which contains a clear message, titled the College of Cardinals Report. It offers profiles on around 40 candidates, including a breakdown on where they stand on topics such as same-sex blessings, ordaining female deacons in the churches, teaching on contraception. The subtext choose a pope who will take the church in a different direction than Pope Francis, whose progressive reforms angered some conservatives. We won't go through the whole article, but like they're presenting it as if like this was such a hostile move and it's like the things that they did before Francis's conclave they're talking like this is like a late taste in 10 CA excommunicable offense to get handed a booklet with information about Cardinals in it.
Speaker 4:Right. So, christopher, or was it christopher lamb? Yeah uh, let me see if I can find yeah, did I put chris lamb's tweet in there?
Speaker 2:rob, I think I might have put his tweet in. You put about 30 different things in here I know I didn't put chris for lamb's tweet. Can you find it?
Speaker 4:yeah, I found it. So he wrote cardinals choosing the next pope have been offered a dossier on candidates with a subtext choose a pope who will take the church in a different direction to francis. Yeah, it's basically the quote from the article and then he says two church lawyers see this as an unwarranted attempt to influence the conclave. So I wrote you mean like McCarrick and Daniels did in 2013? Give us a break.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I put two videos in, Rob. One is Cardinal Stella, Critical of Francis. I went and I listened to the Jesuit magazine America magazine podcast today just to see, because I want to know what the liberals are saying. Like, I know what we're saying and we're dealing with hopium Right. So, like you see, I put out articles about like Cardinal Sarah has a chance and it's like come on, stop. I want to believe that. So bad, but I just don't believe it.
Speaker 4:But I went Is is, is is kale Zeldin, referring to one of those lawyers. So-called is yeah, is that Don Goldstein?
Speaker 1:Who, just, who, just became a cannon lawyer last year oh my God.
Speaker 2:I know what do you think Honestly, before we even get to anything else, what do you think the Dawn Edens, the Mark Shays, what will they do if you get a pope in who's a return to even a Benedict or something, a return to like even even a Benedict or something?
Speaker 4:you know, yeah. So first of all, their heads would explode. Second of all, their uh, their ultra Montanism would disappear instantly.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:Uh, and third of all, I think that they would lead a revolution and say he's an anti-Pope and call for a brokered conclave or something along those lines. In other words, the split in the church already exists. They will actualize it if a real Catholic becomes the Pope.
Speaker 2:Okay, so let's work through that. That's a very because I have the same intuition that if you get a conservative in there and I hate using that word conservative but like if you got a real Catholic Pope, An actual Catholic Pope, Like an actual Catholic Pope in there, Because I was talking to Cale Zeldin about this Like I think if you got an actual Catholic Pope in there, the left would have to come up with a counter. Like you'll get two claimants to the throne in a case.
Speaker 4:But it's not going to happen. Look, metal fatigue is a real thing. Okay, if you take it in a car antenna and you wrench it to the left and then you wrench it to the right, after about two or three times it's going to snap. Yeah, and the fact of the matter is the church, the faithful, have been wrenched to the left, they've been wrenched to the right and it's going back and forth in that metal fatigue. It's on the verge of snapping. The question is, which way is it going to break? I think that the church will always break to the right. She'll take the faithful with her, and it is the, it is the apostates who will leave. They have to. So what does that look?
Speaker 1:like if you look through church history, like basically exactly what you said, michael you have the, the, the trads, or you know the, the staunchly um, you know conservative um, and then you have the moderates, and then you have the progressives, and usually it's the so-called trads and the moderates working something out, and then the progressives, you know breaking away as some sort of heresy or apostasy or something like that. Okay, so what does that look like in action?
Speaker 2:right? So does that like when you're talking getting down to the bishops in the United States? Does that look like in action? Right? So does that like when you're talking getting down to the bishops in the United States? Does that look like Cupich Holorik? And these guys all go with this other claimant?
Speaker 4:Not initially no. So here's what I think would happen let's go ahead and play what if right?
Speaker 2:So what if, huh, we're war. Gaming Like this is a war game.
Speaker 4:Like we're just playing war games. So what if we get a Pius XIII or a Leo XIV? Okay, a Pope who truly upholds everything the church teaches and wants to suppress the enemies of the faith. You get that person and it's going to be kind of a repeat, initially, of what happened, not going to work because they've stirred up their support base so much, so much that the support base is going to demand action. Now, supich is already over age. He's going to be kicked to the curb. He's gone. Okay, uh, tobin tobin's kind of kept his head down. Uh, he doesn't really speak out about things. He, he operates more behind the scenes. Mcelroy, I think he's going to be medical, medically retired. He's gone. So you, you get these hardcore leftists Hollerick Marx, um, the Germans, the German, yeah, exactly the Germans. Uh, you're going to have even some of the uh, the known, probably known, uh, freemasons from Italy and France. They're going to be removed. Um, at some point you're going to have a mass exodus of all the leftists.
Speaker 4:Mark Shea and uh, um, I would actually say mike, mike lewis, uh, I mean he's, he's nuts, he's lost his mind. So those individuals are going to march left right over the cliff with all the other lemmings and they're going to take as many people as they can with them. It's it's almost like what happened in in apocalypse, apocalypse 12. And there was a great battle in heaven. Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought with his angels, and they prevailed. Not. Neither was their place found anymore in heaven. Now, what was it that our lady of Akita said? She said that the devil would infiltrate into the church in such a way that we will see bishops against bishops and cardinals against cardinals.
Speaker 2:Now we thought we've seen that already, but you think it's going to be way bigger.
Speaker 4:We haven't really. We've seen. We've seen some arguing, we've seen some debating, but we haven't seen a real battle, and I think that that battle is going to be over a massive schism and I think that it's going to be about this, papacy. I really, truly believe that.
Speaker 2:I don't see how it's not Like I've talked about this on the show a few times where it's like, even if you get a more conservative Benedict theict the 17th or I mean I don't know about a jp3, but a benedict the 17th who just wants to even be more like of a contemplative man who just wants to dial back some of the insanity, I think that that lurch left is going to be so furious at the lack of progression that they're going to do this like, like.
Speaker 2:I don't see how there's not a split. We're living in a materially schismatic church already. It just needs to be formalized, and I don't see how that doesn't come. I mean, we are we're you're dealing with and I think Rob is right too where it's going to be. The conservatives and the trads are going to come to an understanding. What's going to be interesting to see is how the pope splainers work out in this, because they seem like they were, they were so on board with the francis stuff that I don't know what they're going to do I think we'll see a split there.
Speaker 1:I think you'll see some who really were just trying to be loyal to the papacy and some who are playing that angle but are really leftists.
Speaker 4:Yes. So if you look at the way things went when Humanae Vitae was published, I think that that's a foretaste of what's going to happen when we get an Orthodox Pope. Because Humanae Vitae to be perfectly honest, I've read it, I've used it before as a foundational document to try and explain things to the leftists and to say that what these guys are doing is against church teaching. But it's actually kind of a weak document. It doesn't make the case that contraception is intrinsically evil. It simply makes the case that it's impermissible within the bounds of marriage. It makes no argument about it from a natural law perspective. So this is kind of problematic. So what has to happen? Well, what happened after Humanae Vitae was published? You had a bunch of leftists who said okay, we're going to sign an open letter to the Pope and say we're not going to follow you and you're going to have an entire bishops conference up in Canada going. We're not going to follow you and we're just going to tell people go ahead and use contraception according to your conscience. If it's okay with your conscience, you can do it. That's what happened revolution in the church. That happened after Humanae Vitae was promulgated and nothing happened to them.
Speaker 4:Now what I think is going to happen. You get a faithful Orthodox pope. Initially, everybody's going to play along, to get along. Oh good, we applaud our new happy pope, we're glad he's there and we love our pope, uh-huh. And then he's going to sign an encyclical against the homo heresy and he's going to say anybody who supports sodomy in any way, shape or form, anybody who affirms those who are in a homosexual relationship as good and faithful practicing Catholics, anybody who affirms somebody in a sexual identity that is not their own natural biology, those people are automatically outside the church. A document like that comes down.
Speaker 2:Something like that.
Speaker 4:Something like that, and I guarantee you you're going to have the same kind of open rebellion, except there won't be any tolerance of the rebellion this time.
Speaker 1:the thing is I think, we've learned our lesson there yes, well, it's not.
Speaker 2:It's not just that. It's almost like the francis papacy was preparation for this, like I don't see how. I don't see how it's not right. So is francis a one-off? Is the question right so?
Speaker 4:I I, I really hope so right so why I and I said this back in 2013 or 2014, shortly after he was elected, so one year into the papacy and and already there were things that were coming out and it was kind of like there's a problem here. I'll never forget it was November of 2013 or no, it was November of 2014. And I was at the USCCB's annual assembly up in Baltimore because I always hung around there and just kind of ticked off a bunch of bishops, but I would hang around and Michael Sean Winters from the National Catholic Reporter came up to me and I was talking to him. I handed him my card, told him I started Lepanto Institute. He said oh, lepanto, what are you going to do? Sink the Turkish Navy? And I said oh, yeah, funny. And I said actually we are going to be arraigned against those who are enemies of the church and we're going to continue to fight against the heresies and whatnot. And he says you know, for a long time you have called us dissenters. He said but now, now that Francis is in, you're the dissenter.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that was a really kind of eye-opening conversation because he had already acknowledged that they got their guy and I was still kind of I'm not sure. I mean, he's kind of saying some things I don't like, but I'm not sure, and then everything kind of blew up in 2015. But the fact of the matter is they knew they got their guy. I don't think it's going to happen again. I also remember reading an interview or not an interview, it was a news article where somebody observed one of Francis's cardinals one of the ones that voted for him arguing with him outside the Vatican walls. I guess he was going somewhere, and they met up and it was a loud argument. It was kind of heated. And they met up and it was a loud argument, it was kind of heated, and all they heard was we didn't elect you to destroy the church. We elected you to reform the church, and you know. So there was one that supported him and already the cracks were showing. So again, this is why I think we're not going to see Francis too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree. Well, I think the one good thing we are hearing is all of the guys that are being mentioned, not one of them is talking about taking the name Francis. The second, like it's got so much baggage to it. Every single man in that conclave is like oh, maybe john the 24th, you know, or but we really do need, we need a pre-conciliar name to come out of this thing.
Speaker 1:Right, it would be, it would be amazing to get an urban or uh you know, I mean we could have another clement in the last clement suppress the jesuits. So we just need to do it again.
Speaker 2:What we really need is a gregory like another. Gregory the great is what we really need. Yeah, something like that. So if we saw something like that coming out, I think right away, the name he chooses is going to carry a lot of weight. Now, michael, there's something weighing on me and I'm not kidding Every single person I talk to, just I mean, I'm seeing it from everywhere, everybody's just like I can't shake the idea that it's going to be pizza ball, like something about that man where you're hearing stories of him in Rome just being prayerful, not mingling with the other cardinals and stuff, but his name keeps getting thrown out there. There's something about a man who is the head of a persecuted church. It's so foreign from what we experience in the west. Right in the west, it's all we're on youtube and gossiping, but over in, over in in the holy land, it's like real persecution, like there's christians being killed for their faith over there, and I think when you're the head of a church like that, so something a little bit different, go ahead.
Speaker 1:Rather and move your, move your mic cord around.
Speaker 4:It's really bad it is crackling a little staticky, just a touch any better. So most of you, I I agree with you. I think that, um, I think that pizza balla is a, I think he's a strong contender. I, I would prefer him in many ways If you look at it just from the prophecy standpoint. Let's interesting that the last one mentioned and this would be that election is Peter the Roman. So what's interesting about pizza Bala is that his first name is Peter Pietro. Uh, so he's, he's a Peter, he's Italian and he's in the Holy Land, he's in Jerusalem later. You've got. You've got May 13th, our ladies or lady of Fatima's feast day. Six days would be like a new creation, wouldn't it?
Speaker 2:So I don't know, there are all sorts of it would be the most symbolic gesture from heaven ever if it took six days for them to end up and, let's say, if Pizza Boy steps out on the 13th.
Speaker 4:I'm looking for white smoke on the 13th personally.
Speaker 1:I mean that would be, in modern times, the longest election in history.
Speaker 4:Yes, but I I told you already I expect it to take longer than usual for the reasons I already gave. And that's again just just because of the, the debating and the going back and forth and trying to figure someone out. It's going to take them a while to figure someone out. It's going to take them while to figure something out. I and and again, the longer it takes, the better it is I've been.
Speaker 2:I've been goofing around with the dolan thing. I know my feelings exactly, michael it's just so funny how mad people get when you say it I can just see him going out on the logia with a donut in hand, yeah talking about talking about ramadan slapping the guy next to him on the back ha that is him.
Speaker 4:You just you have to like if he if he wasn't chorus line up there with him.
Speaker 2:You know doing the can can if he wasn't American, though, he is the perfect interim candidate. Like he's just he's he. He likes to please everyone. He just he would go in and try, but he would learn real quick. You can't play both sides of the fence, and I think that's any pope that goes in there is going to learn real quick.
Speaker 2:You cannot play both sides of the fence. You're either going to be Catholic or you're not. There's no placating the other side. You either have to do what Francis was doing, and Francis had to make a decision. I don't even think it was a decision. I think he went in with this idea'm gonna placate the germans and I'm gonna excommunicate the trads, essentially. But those, those two camps, are so ideologically separate that they can't exist under one body. Like they just can't. It's just. It's too much of a headache to have real catholics watching what the german church is doing and not do something about them. Like he, those men should have been dealt with a very long time ago and they've just been allowed to to run roughshod all over the church.
Speaker 4:I mean, look, the modernists, uh, who got their ugly rise in the late 1800s, were finally suppressed. I mean, it was Pius IX who pointed out that there was a problem with modernism. He put out his list of condemned propositions, which was effectively modernism, and then that festered over and over and over until Pius X, and Pius X, in 2000, said enough. He put out his I can't think of the name of the encyclical, it's right on the tip of my brain.
Speaker 2:While Michael's thinking of the encyclical, I'll give you a second to think about it. If Dolan wins, I will pope spleen so freaking hard. You guys will die, I'm telling you right now. I'm going to be the Michael Lo lofton of the dolan papacy.
Speaker 1:I'm just the part of akita where it says the uh living envy the dead. Oh, you will. You will envy the dead if that man gets elected.
Speaker 2:I didn't steal that line from um. I stole the line from um adrian. Actually, that's not. It's not a majorian's line, it's adrian's line. Uh, did you find the?
Speaker 4:encyclical yeah, pachendi, dominici greges. So, uh, pachendi was published in 2000 or in 1910 and what happened was the modernists didn't suddenly go away. A few of them were excommunicated, a little handful of them, but but there were hundreds of these modernists, thousands, and they were publishing papers and they were writing in articles, and this is why their heresy was spreading. But what happened was they said, okay, we'll sign the oath against modernism and they went underground. So where the Protestant revolt said we're going to split from the church, we are rebelling against your authority, the modernists, which are effective Protestants, said, well, okay, I'll go ahead and say what you want to hear and then I will continue on to spread my modernism in a different way. And over the next 10 years they switched gears and started really kind of hiding their meaning. So instead of declaring things, okay, we believe that the way to do exegetical work with scripture is to say that there was a difference between a historical Christ and the biblical Christ. And the miracles are not the same as the stories, and sure you can take them in a spiritual sense and be faithful to that, or you can take it in a historical sense and be faithful to that, instead of them playing those kinds of mind games.
Speaker 4:The modernists became the nouveau telelogy, where they wrote such gobbledygook. I mean, they spent chapters writing absolute nonsense. No one could figure out what they were saying. But that's the problem with communism. Communists use what's called double talk, double speak, they say something in such a way that it has a particular meaning, but you have to cut through all the fat to get to it. Uh, also, they empty out the meaning of certain words and they replace that meaning with a new meaning which they may have redefined in a different chapter. But again, unless, unless you're digging through it and finding it out, you don't get there I mean it was.
Speaker 2:It was the francis papacy. It's exactly what we dealt, where he would say something very clearly in the first paragraph and then throw some footnotes in. That would upend the entire thing.
Speaker 1:Or the last few paragraphs contradict the first few. Got the modernist mumbo jumbo mixed in with nouveau tale, oj, intellectualism.
Speaker 4:That made no sense. And then you had the ambiguous lack of clarity. And I'm not going to declare something right or wrong, I'm just going to talk around it and make it look like it's one way or the other, so that it can be read in multiple ways, a la Vatican II. So you have this problem. We've seen this problem. It's been argued to death, to death. People are sick of it. They want clarity. They don't want any more marble mouth explanations of things they want. Is this right or is this wrong? Am I going to heaven or am I going to hell? You tell me the path what I love?
Speaker 2:what I love about this is that it's optimistic doom. Like rob, I've been I, because I I rob said I was being very selfish to say I want two claimants out of this conclave. But it's not because, look, my kids are grown and it is a lot different for me, rob. Rob wants to be able to raise his kids in the faith. I understand all that, but I just want the real Catholic faith preach. And if that means us going through some hard times and suffering, like it's just we have to go through this, that there has to be a death of this thing that we're talking about and a resurrection must come forth. And it cannot happen unless the thing we're looking at dies. It's just. You know, stop romanticizing the destruction. It's not destruction of the church, it's the resurrection of the church.
Speaker 1:But it could mean the destruction of millions of souls, though.
Speaker 4:You know what Scripture is very clear about that? It says that they have burning ears to hear the preaching that they want to hear. They follow false doctrines because they want to hear them. So people who are being led out of the church, they're already there. So people who are being led out of the church, they're already there, if you look at the way things are lined up. People who read America Magazine and National Catholic Reporter and US Catholic, and they follow Michael Law. Well, michael Law, they follow Michael Mike Lewis, they follow James Martin SJ.
Speaker 4:All of those individuals have already left the church. They're not in the bosom of Christ. They may be there physically and they may declare themselves Catholic, and they may not have been publicly corrected, but ideologically and spiritually they're no longer with the church. They have completely severed them from what the church actually teaches. So if a pope were to come down hard and say all right, here's the the line. Anybody on this side of the line is out of the church, they're going to find themselves there, regardless of of uh, you know whether we've had a mealy mouth.
Speaker 1:yeah, you know but I would say the majority of catholics is is like a middle ground. Right, they in. And if you have a split, papacy, you know that you, I think you could lose a lot of them, because they just think they're following who they you mean a contested papacy?
Speaker 4:a contested papacy, not a split, okay so let's, let's take a worst case scenario. All right, let's say that pietro perlin or uh, god forbid, cardinal turkson comes out on the logia. All right, turkson's a marxist. Uh, perlin is probably a freemason, um, or? Or let's go with with probably the most vile of them all, uh, hollerick. Okay, let's say one of those three comes out on the logia and they declare themselves francis the second, or or even judas the first. Okay, you get a pope like that coming out on the logia. Faithful catholics are not going to leave. They're not. There are a lot of people who are going to be tempted to go orthodox. Don't do it. There are going to be a lot of people who are going to be tempted to go Orthodox. Don't do it. There are going to be a lot of people who are going to declare right off the bat well, pope, heretic, he's not the pope. They're going to remain their set of accountants. Don't do it. You don't have the authority To look at the situation from an historical perspective.
Speaker 4:You've got to understand. We've had popes that rose to the top of the church through murder by deposing their predecessors. Just look at Silvarius and Liberius. Silvarius was the pope and Empress Theodora, who was a monophysite said you know what? I want a pope who's going to promulgate monophysitism and make that a teaching of the church. So I need to get rid of this Silvarius. So Liberius came up and he said you know what? I've got a plan. I think we can figure out a way to get rid of him. And so Empress Theodora put Silvarius in prison, locked him away and named Liberius the Pope. So, right there, liberius was an anti-Pope and for six I think it was eight months, eight or nine months uh, liberius was an anti-pope. Then silverius died and liberius was the pope period.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so for anybody who's gonna say holerick is an anti-pope or Cardinal Marx is an anti-pope, or whoever, okay, don't do it. We can look at that and say, okay, this is bad news. We're going to have a horrible time. He's going to suppress us, he's going to really chastise us and he's going to be a terrible tyrant. Understand that that does not mean he's not the Pope and that we are being punished by almighty god because of our sins. That's the most important takeaway is, we've got to understand that we cannot rebel. It is the left that rebels, not us yeah, um, let's jump to the super chats.
Speaker 2:Rob, I saw a couple of super chats pop in your mic is worse than ever.
Speaker 1:Oh man, you sound completely like Hollow.
Speaker 4:Get Michael and Wagner on together?
Speaker 3:I don't know who Wagner is Still bad.
Speaker 1:It's a little better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we got a couple of super chats. Check those out. Okay, would you be able to address what measures would need to be taken to protect the Holy Pope, to prevent any harm befalling him, especially if excommunications happen, holding trials for the clergy, etc. That's Like what kind of special protections would the Pope would need to be taken?
Speaker 1:Sub to the Swiss guard.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I don't. I mean I I would get a food taster, but in in terms of um special protections, the the Swiss guard is pretty uh. To put it in layman's terms, they're pretty bad-ass.
Speaker 2:I need, I need, I need a new mike kennedy I. I actually I watched kennedy's video today and I thought he had a really good take on it. He said look, no matter what, the fight continues like if you get a conservative in there, we just have the fight with a, with a good pope leading us, and more people will be brought into tradition and more people will be exposed to it. Maybe he'll allow for more Latin masses to be said, he'll get rid of tradition on us. That's a good thing, but you still have the war with the liberals. That is going to happen and you'll have the world turn on the papacy.
Speaker 2:So you're at war, no matter what If you get another liberal Pope, another Francis, and it continues on the way it is. We continue the same fight we've been in for the past 12 years and it's just being a saint when your hierarchy hates you. I mean it's just no matter what. We have a fight ahead of us and it doesn't change the fact that we're Catholic and we're called to be saints. It's just a different fight depending on who walks out on that loggia.
Speaker 4:Right, right, we're called to fight and there's a reason why I quoted from the apocalypse early on. There was a great battle in heaven. Michael and the angels rose up and fought the dragon, and the dragon fought with his angels. If you look at the Vatican, you look at the church. The church represents heaven. If you look at what happens in the mass, why do we have communion rails? Communion rails draw a line between what happens in the altar and the sanctuary and what happens in the general congregation area. It shows the line between heaven and earth. And when we get to that communion rail, we are right there, at the cusp, we're on the verge of heaven and heaven comes to us and we receive heaven, christ in holy communion.
Speaker 4:So why did they get rid of the communion rails? Because they wanted to have open borders. They wanted to say that you could have open borders between heaven and earth or that you could have open borders between heaven and hell. So their political ideologies match with their spiritual ideologies, which is why they had to get rid of the mass to begin with. They had to change it. They had to change the mass in order to reflect the politics they wanted to propagate, in order to reflect the politics that they wanted to propagate.
Speaker 4:So the idea of who comes out on the logia and the politics involved, we have to look to what it is. Yeah, I know I'm preaching to the choir, but look, it's hard. It's going to be very, very, very difficult and we're going to fight one way or another. The war amongst the bishops, the war amongst the cardinals, as our Lady of Akita said, bishops against bishops, cardinals against cardinals all of that is a reflection of what happens in heaven. It's always going to be a reflection. Our participation in that is how firmly and how staunchly and how visibly we stand up for the truth, against the incursions of all these heresies and leftists.
Speaker 2:I think this is an interesting one, because I don't know what other guys are going to do, but I know we'll be fine, like we're going to try and bring joy and humor, no matter what we do. Um, I think there will be an excitement amongst faithful catholics to want to hear the good news that's happening. Like it'll be such a beautiful thing to actually have some good news happening. You know, yeah, um, um, okay, so, uh, why was the fisherman's ring of pope francis destroyed? Today? The ring is to be destroyed with a silver hammer immediately following the pope's death. To why is a woman destroying the ring? I saw that that was a bit bizarre. It was just. I mean something it's all symbolic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it doesn't matter, it's all symbolic um, which one of the candidates are each of you least excited about? Hmm, paralympic.
Speaker 3:I don't think.
Speaker 2:Paralympic. I don't think Paralympic is getting it. I don't think he has a shot at it. I think that whole thing is just not happening Like I, for some reason, I've never. The thought of him walking out there has never even crossed my mind. It's like they keep throwing that name at us and telling us he's the top contender. He who walks in a Pope walks out a Cardinal. That's all I'll tell you.
Speaker 4:It's not going to be him. No-transcript. He's kind of a dark horse candidate. He is Papa B-Lay. Was that a racial joke, Michael? I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 1:Rob, you're just out of control, Rob.
Speaker 2:Rob's looking to make Michael start a GoFundMe.
Speaker 1:But not the Patrick Coffin sort.
Speaker 4:I actually had to think about that for a second.
Speaker 2:I didn't quite understand what you meant rob wants michael to have to start a.
Speaker 4:Go fund me um the uh yeah, turkish is the one that scares me, and the reason is turkson was the guy who was in charge of the dicastery for human development Development. He is thoroughly in the tank for everything climate change. He's thoroughly in the tank for everything globalist. He wants to be the one who gets the church to be wedded to the United Nations in a very perfect way. He's all about the sustainable development goals. There's nothing about him that's liturgically accurate or good. He has no concern for immorality. He's actually in support of of lgbt garbage, but he's he's a very uh, low-key candidate. He's not one of those you know crazy radicals like hollerick who comes right out and says, hey, you know, we gotta have a gay blessings for homosexual couples and uh, he doesn't say stuff like that no, and on top of that, if he gets in there, you'll have us being called racist if we say anything.
Speaker 2:I mean we were already dealing with that. People were telling us we were racist. It's like the guy's italian. What are you talking about?
Speaker 4:yep and and look, I would love for a cardinal sarah. You know, I think cardinal sarah would be fantastic. He's old, old, um, but I think he'd be great. I'd love for Cardinal Sarah to be to be Pope. So they can't call me racist because I would oppose one African in favor of another.
Speaker 2:Um, did you know? Pizza ball is birthdays the same day as the room? Uh, as the city of rooms. So the founding of Rome is the same day as a pizza bowl is birthday, and it also was the same day that Francis died. I did not know that.
Speaker 4:I knew some of that. I didn't know all of that.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, it's look, I I keep going between, um, like I said, I I it's like some days I'm like hopeful and I see all this stuff and I'm like man, we're going to be okay. Well, first of all, I think that, because of those conservative Cardinals, I really do think they're going to put their foot down and I don't think they're going to budge, so I do think the possibility of that long conclave is very likely. I don't think. Here's 20 bucks. Special shout out for my boy, eric with a K. We listen to your show religiously and I'm not on locals, so figured I'd get back here. Thanks and thanks, rob, very, very, very grateful, but you should join locals. If you got 20 bucks, another 20 that's four months of locals yeah, um, the the.
Speaker 2:I do think that they will put their foot down and not budge on it, and I'm really. I think the african cardinals are a very big block and it may not be two-thirds, but it's enough to lock this thing up and say, no, we're not going along with this. And that's good like. So. Francis was talking about changing the conclave rules to at the 33 scrutinies it would go to majority wins, but he never got that done, so it stayed at two thirds majority, no matter what, which is really good, and I am, but you know. But then you hear some of the stuff the Vatican's releasing and it's all this nonsense. They're still talking about the same garbage. They were in the synod, but from from seeing the Maradiaga ran out of there because he was so angry, it's like man, maybe that these people I don't think anybody liked synodality no, no, I think it was just directed.
Speaker 4:Yeah, synodality was a direct attack on the papacy and it was a direct attack on the hierarchy. The whole idea was to democratize and decentralize the church I agree.
Speaker 2:um then, okay, rob, why don't we? Uh, let me see before we, before we head over to locals, cause we can do. I mean, should we even go to locals? Maybe we'll just stay on here. We're going to be on a bunch of times this week. We're going to pop on tomorrow, nick will be back on tomorrow, and then we're going to play it by ear.
Speaker 2:I don't know, we'll see, we'll, we'll talk behind the scenes, but I think we should jump on. I think everybody's, everybody, really is going to want to know what's going on, so I think we should be any information though well, the rumor mill will be going crazy.
Speaker 2:So tomorrow you'll get there's going to be a vote tomorrow, so there will be something to talk about there's also 750 people on youtube right now, so please hit like and, uh, share the show if you guys do enjoy us. It would be great if you guys could share the show. Um, yeah, let's stay on. Let's stay on youtube tonight, rob, let's not even go over to locals.
Speaker 1:Why don't we play that cardinal stella clip but they want, they want locals version of michael wait, if you guys have never seen locals, michael, he is a totally different guy.
Speaker 2:He goes off the walls in Locals. Let's play that Cardinal Stella clip. I put it as Cardinal Stella critical of Francis. So this is America Magazine's podcast and I like listening to the left to see their thoughts and they are nervous, which makes me happy they are nervous which makes me happy In the conclave.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but still have an influential role.
Speaker 3:They spoke and there were several of them who were very critical of what Pope Francis had done. Cardinal Benjamin Stella, italian cardinal, former diplomat in many places and then very close to Francis. Francis knew him before he became pope and soon after he appointed him as prefect of the then Congregation for Clergy, so he had a very important position and he could see very important position and he could see Francis very often and he advised and counseled Francis. So he was, let's say, one of Francis' men.
Speaker 4:Sure.
Speaker 2:Someone trusted him, supposedly, and yet here, when the Pope died, he was one of the strongest outspoken critics of Francis and especially even the people that were supposedly closest to Francis Right from the beginning. There was there. It was very uncomfortable there, like Francis was not brought in to undo the church, he was brought in to make some reforms and he just went nuts with it. Now Cardinal Stella was one of his closest guys and he's getting up there and he's criticizing Francis. So that's why Marty Aga runs off the way he does. He's like this is a revolt against everything Francis was doing and it's like man. That's hopeful news. I don't know, it's it it? It does make me think that some of these guys that Francis picked from the outskirts of society, from outskirts of the world, maybe they're actually Catholic. Like you know, they're dealing with these smaller communities. They're not. They don't care about the Western nonsense, this ideological colonization that we put forward.
Speaker 2:You know Francis spoke out about ideological colonization. He was the biggest purveyor of it throughout the entire church. Talk about ideological colonization.
Speaker 4:They just pushed that liberalism on everybody, everywhere hey, rob, can you put a comment up there? Viola, uh said, said something that I yeah, I'm not trolling, I'm just seeking information. What about when christianity allowed pagan stuff into the religion? Isn't that the same as saying pachamama is mary? The answer is no, and here's why. Uh, and, and most of the time, what people are referring to is the Christmas tree. Okay, so the Christmas tree in ancient pagan times in Germany, they had the Woden tree. It was this massive, massive oak tree and it was I think it was St Bernard that cut it down. And the fact of the matter is that, as a sign of conquest over the pagan gods, they would bring those trees into their homes and put candles on them to show that the light of Christ had conquered the darkness of paganism. So it was, yeah, it was St Bernard, so this was a sign of conquest. It's the same reason why we have, if you go into rome and you'll oh, was it? Boniface?
Speaker 2:boniface, yeah, it was boniface.
Speaker 4:Okay, uh, if you go into rome, you've got all these obelisks. I knew it started with a, b. Uh, you get all these obelisks in front of all the major basilicas. Now, those obelisks were brought to Rome from Egypt to show Rome's conquest over Egypt, and then they built churches right there on top of the squares where those obelisks were and they stuck a cross right on top of the obelisk to show the conquest of Christianity over paganism. But the Pachamama thing is an actual demon. It's the name of a demon. What you're suggesting and I don't mean you qua you, but what is being suggested that the Pachamama may be the Virgin Mary would be like saying, well, why don't we just redress a statue of Athena and call that Mary and we'll be good? It doesn't work that way. They smashed those idols work that way. They smashed those idols and there was no syncretism to be had between what an idol represents in paganism and what the church truly understands and teaches as real people from the uh, the history of the church.
Speaker 2:So there's a difference in enculturation and taking what is good in a culture and baptizing it, and a christian like the amazon, like where they're talking about, like the gospel is already preached there and this thing was creeping into christianity. It was like it wasn't trying to baptize that not even part of their culture. Yeah, that's what it was so weird, it wasn't even part of their culture yeah it was just, it was something it was.
Speaker 2:I hate the people that defend it. It's like, just stop it, like, come on, knock it off. And the thing is there are pagan things that we brought into the church and enculturated and they're good, like, even like the priests, the, like, the, what is it? Even the things the priests wear, like they're. Those are all ancient Roman garbs of like, like there's not. Yeah, they're. I'm sorry, I don't know why I couldn't think of the word vestments Like the priest vestments are from, are from the days of ancient Rome.
Speaker 2:There's nothing wrong with the things the church did incorporate into the church. They took what was good in each culture that they conquered and they baptized it and they said, okay, look, you guys have these festivals. Yeah, okay, we're going to change them to this, but you can still keep the festival itself. It just has to be its whole purpose and Talos has to be, you know, shifted and put towards Christianity. There's nothing wrong with that, but trying to do that in 2025 is just silly, it's? You know what the church did? The church did. Then there was one more clip that I know we all know this story, but I thought it was really interesting because of the way they talked about it. So there's the Paul VI when he bars Cardinals over 75, rob, I thought this was the way they're talking about it. I'm just like do they not even see what they're saying?
Speaker 1:here, which is the way. I mean, I haven't watched this clip, but we heard Father Murr talk about that this weekend too. Yeah, but we heard Father Murr talk about that this weekend too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he did. I think in 1970, paul VI was to remove the right of voting for cardinals over the age of 80, because he saw what happened in the conclave in which he was elected and he saw how the older, older cardinals not all of them, but many of them were blocking change in the church. And so I think that is a very important point to make and I think you're right. And here I was told that several, that many of the early speakers speaking out and criticizing were in, in fact, of the older generation.
Speaker 1:We heard that Cardinal Zen, who is 93, was speaking out against him.
Speaker 2:He's talking about the older cardinals, the ones that JP II and Benedict elected. Those are the ones who came out originally and they were the ones speaking out against some of the reforms Francis made. One speaking out against some of the reforms Francis made, but even pointing out how Paul VI had to cut the voting age off at 80 because the older cardinals were the ones who didn't want this progress in the church and just this idea of getting rid of our fathers and our patrimony, right Like all of Catholicism, like to reject everything before the council. Is this rejection of the saints shoulders that we stand on, and it's a rejection of everything that came before. And they actually had to cut off the voting age of the older men to prevent them from keeping to tradition. It is so appalling what Paul the sixth said. I cannot believe Rob thinks his body is incorrupt. It is so appalling what Paul the Sixth did.
Speaker 3:I cannot believe Rob thinks his body is incorrupt.
Speaker 1:Nothing on that.
Speaker 2:I also watched his podcast today, anthony's not mentioning how horrible it was. Awful. I said I sat through it so that you guys wouldn't have to suffer. But yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:It's easy for him to sit through when he's getting paid hourly for working oh, stop it.
Speaker 2:I sit through it and suffer for you guys. So I could pick the, pick, the gems out for you guys oh, oh, yeah, no, we forgot all right, it's not too late. We got. We got 750 um okay, so, rob, bring it up. Let them read it. This is actually great. I don't have it ready. Okay, recusin sellers is uh what is it?
Speaker 4:recusinsellerscom recusinsellerscom recusinsellerscom. Okay, use the code based check out for 10 off your order. Recusant sellers has the best wine that you could possibly receive from a beautiful, wonderful catholic family that produces these wines in, I think, in california. Is that right?
Speaker 2:no, no, washington yeah, you're doing better than us with the script, so I can come really have to do is we have to record Michael saying it and just play it. Wait, I know you think we're so bad at it, but Rob says recusant so strangely, and that they hear Michael pronounce it so perfectly right afterward. It's like it's such a stark contrast. They have to love us. Come on, we're bantering about their product. Their product is phenomenal. I actually ordered three bottles.
Speaker 1:Depending on who gets elected as Pope, you might really need some wine For the next decade or two.
Speaker 2:You guys might need wine to dull the pain, or you might need wine to celebrate. Go to recuseandsellerscom. Use code BASE at checkout for 10% off. Those of you that missed the 20% off sale last week, tough crap, you're stuck with the 10%. Rob says Vianney weird too.
Speaker 1:Vianney. I just say it like the French would Vianney he's.
Speaker 2:French. Yeah, okay, so let's see we can go to what else we got here. I saw. You know what it was really okay, so let's go with the Catholic Sat tweet, rob. So the conclave starts tomorrow to elect a new pope, the 267th successor of St Peter, the father of princes and kings, ruler of the world, vicar on earth of our Savior Jesus Christ, to whom is honor and glory forever and ever. Of the people who will play a prominent role, his eminence Giovanni Battista, cardinal Ray, dean of the Sacred College of Cardinals, will celebrate Mass in St Peter's Basilica at 10 am Pro elegendo pontifici for the election of the Roman pontiff.
Speaker 1:His sermon will set the tone for the conference you make fun of what I say, but, yeah, you can't even pronounce your own language of his sermon will set the tone for the. You make fun of what I say, but, yeah, you can't even pronounce your own language.
Speaker 2:He however, doesn't have a vote. At 4.15, the Cardinal electors will gather in the Pauline Chapel of the Apostolic Palace ahead of their procession to the Sistine Chapel. 4.30, accompanied by the Litany of Saints, the Cardinal electors will process to the Sistine Chapel. Inside the Sistine Chapel, proceedings will be conducted by his eminence Pietro, cardinal Parolin, the most senior Cardinal elector. It's so crazy how the men running this whole thing like they're setting the tone these are all Francis's guys setting the tone and the Cardinal electors one by one in order of precedence, starting with Cardinal electors one by one, in order of precedence, starting with Cardinal Parolin.
Speaker 2:He can say another bottle of red wine, flawlessly. Un'altra bottiglia di vino rossi. The Cardinal electors, one by one in order of precedence, starting with Cardinal Parolin and ending with his eminence George Jacob, cardinal Cuvacad Cuvacad, swear an oath of absolute secrecy on the Holy Gospels. Michael, did you know? The Pope does not swear an oath upon assuming office?
Speaker 4:Yes, I did not know that man. I was shocked by that. He either accepts or rejects the election.
Speaker 2:I would have really thought that the pope would have to make some kind of an oath saying I will not change what was handed on. Not, you know, like the positive faith that was given to me will be passed on perfectly. So I say chrysostom, is that wrong? Chrysostom oh, rob you both. We both say it wrong, probably um ch.
Speaker 2:Chrysostom, yeah, chrysostom I think people like Chrysostom, but I say Chrysostom, I've heard it both ways. After this, the master of pontifical liturgical celebrations, His Excellency Diego Giovanni Ravelli, proclaims extra ominous everybody else out and closes the door to the Sistine Chapel. With the doors of the Sistine Chapel closed, his eminence Raniero, Cardinal Cantalamesa, will deliver a meditation to the cardinals. This is another pivotal moment in shaping the duration of the outcome of the conflict. Awesome, Another awesome.
Speaker 1:You know how. I know this isn't going to go longer than a few days.
Speaker 2:Because I'm bored to death.
Speaker 1:There's no way half of them can't go that long without grinder, oh my gosh rob I didn't go there rob you are.
Speaker 2:You are rowdy tonight, boy, I'll tell you between the racism and homophobia. Well, come on, it was michael that said that common.
Speaker 4:I think rob's been hitting the recus and sellers wine. I wish Wait a minute.
Speaker 2:I mean, I was on Gordon's show yesterday and I made a comment about like 95% of the Cardinals being gay or something and my wife overheard it and she goes Anthony, I think you sound a little homophobic. I don't know Like you're. Like, anthony, I think you sound a little homophobic. I don't know Like you're. Yeah.
Speaker 4:I'm like Like, first of all don't tell me what I can't say.
Speaker 2:Shut up. I said when you host a show and you're bringing, you're bringing value into the home, we'll talk. All right, don't tell me how to run my show. I know what I'm doing over here, um, all right. So after he's finished, canto la mesa, the non-elector and archbishop bravelli will leave and the first round of voting will take place. If no candidate receives the required 89 votes, more ballots will follow on thursday and subsequent days. Four ballots a day until we get the white smoke.
Speaker 1:They're actually allowed out every night.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Out of the Sistine Chapel they're allowed to speak with each other, I would imagine right, Because they have to start cutting deals, right?
Speaker 4:Well, they're not going to cut deals. They're not allowed to canvas.
Speaker 2:Wait, you're telling me, after they start doing the voting. They're not allowed to say, okay, look, these are the four guys. Okay, uh, once we're going to take his name off the ballot and we're going to be between three guys, I'll bring my votes to you. But you got to make this concession.
Speaker 1:They can't do that let me get the actual wording yeah, I'm pretty sure that would make it an invalid election.
Speaker 4:Yes, I might have to do this, so it's Universi Dominici Gregis. That's the document on elections.
Speaker 2:DJ, you are incorrect on that. I'm sorry I hit the wrong one. That is incorrect. That is what it was. No, no, no.
Speaker 1:That is incorrect. That is what it was before. No, no, no, that is true. So here's.
Speaker 2:Oh, I see what you're saying. It's not. It's still two thirds. It still has to be two thirds. It still has to be two thirds, but it goes.
Speaker 4:It's like 33 ballots, but yeah. You want to read it, michael? Let's see, there's simony, there's uh. Okay, in other words, you're not allowed to promise goods for the papacy, for you, you can't sell your votes, um, you can't sell them.
Speaker 2:But you can't go in and say, look, okay, these are the issues that my constituency wants, like they're worried about the latin mass. Would you be willing, here we go, take back the trend.
Speaker 4:Let Okay, here it is. So paragraph 78 says If God forbid, in the election of the Roman pontiff the crime of simony were to be perpetrated, I decree and declare that all those guilty thereof shall incur excommunication laetis intensiae. At the same time, I remove the nullity or invalidity of the same simonical provision in order that, as was already established by my predecessors, the validity of the election of the Roman pontiff may not for this reason be challenged. 79. Confirming the prescriptions of my predecessors. I likewise forbid anyone, even if he is a cardinal, during the pope's lifetime and without having consulted him, to make plans concerning the election of his successor, or to promise votes or to make decisions in regard for the conclave, that's before the pope dies even um, that's all before the conclave.
Speaker 2:I think when they're in the conclave like they're not, there's no more speeches and stuff.
Speaker 4:Then there's paragraph 80 that excludes any external interference in the election of the pontiff, which again that that calls into question. Well, if, if Barack Obama actually interfered in the last election, that would that would definitely invoke paragraph 80.
Speaker 1:I think I think.
Speaker 2:Francis's validity is like definitely up for question, like for sure, but but I'm, but, I'm, I don't think. I think once they're in conclave, like because all those things that you you said are pertaining to prior to yeah.
Speaker 1:Prior to the conclave but once you're in there, still in conclave, even if they're let out of the sistine chapel at night correct.
Speaker 2:So I I, they're locked away, they're not allowed access to the outside world, but they're allowed to say look, this is what the people that are that are voting for me are concerned with. Are you willing to? And now, look, the Pope doesn't have to. Once he's Pope, he's Pope. I mean, there's no stopping him from saying I don't really care what I promised you. I'm the Pope, I have universal jurisdiction over everything. But if somebody does want to say, okay, look, I'll soften my stance on this a bit, maybe I'll I'll I'll lessen the restrictions on tradition owners, maybe we'll go back and we'll we'll edit some of the encyclicals that Francis released and we'll we'll adjust them and we'll we'll tweak those a bit Like. I think all that stuff can happen in Congress.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, here's the important paragraph that actually addresses that 81. The cardinal electors shall further abstain from any form of pact, agreement, promise or other commitment of any kind which could oblige them to give or deny their vote to a person or persons. If this were in fact done, even under oath, I decree that such a commitment shall be null and void and that no one shall be bound to observe it, and I hereby impose the penalty of excommunication lates intensiae upon those who violate this prohibition. It is not my intention, however, to forbid, during the period in which the sea is vacant, the exchange of views concerning the election". So you can talk about views pertaining to the election. Yeah, they can't make a vow.
Speaker 2:They can't make a promise, but they can say okay, these are your concerns. Look, it just can't be. I'm giving you the papacy for this. It can't be a quid pro quo, but it can be. Look, these are our concerns. You assure me that my concerns will be addressed. We'll support you and we'll get. We'll get behind you. Like that. That is exactly what goes on behind closed doors I think the movie conclave.
Speaker 2:Did you watch it, michael? I did not it. The movie conclave actually shows, like how the politicking that goes on behind the scenes a bit and it's pretty interesting.
Speaker 1:How do you know that's accurate?
Speaker 2:I don't I'm. I just imagine that it would likely be something like that, but it's not. Obviously it's first of the drama of it all is just so ridiculous. They don't show any of the pre-conclave things that are going on. They make it like everybody shows up to rome the day the conclave starts. It's like this. This past nine days has been so unique and seeing all these men who don't know each other, I know the movie is not reality. I'm talking about men. Men operate a certain way and they make deals and they go about. It's very much human politicking that goes on for the papacy.
Speaker 4:Doesn't the movie end with them electing some cranny Just?
Speaker 2:stop five minutes before the movie's over. That's not what it was, but it's close.
Speaker 1:If you ever want a list of movies to watch but not actually finish, ask Anthony Silence. That movie except for the last half hour, don't watch that. Conclave Good, except for the last five minutes, don't watch that.
Speaker 2:Silence the first half of Silence, is amazing. American History X the first half of American History X is amazing.
Speaker 4:First half of American history acts is amazing. First half of apocalypse now is amazing.
Speaker 2:That was how did you guys not get that joke?
Speaker 4:Which one? Which one?
Speaker 2:American history acts the first half before, before he, before he goes to prison and like reforms himself.
Speaker 1:Well, Edward Norton did change the ending to that I know he did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like silence, the first half of silence. It shows like the persecution of the japanese and it's done in such a beautiful way where you're like, but then it's scorsese, so scorsese ends it with him denying his faith at the end. It's like that could have been such an awesome movie about a martyr and he just butchered it.
Speaker 4:So I'm going to tell you a true story.
Speaker 2:Bobby got my joke.
Speaker 4:True story 2013,. Pope Benedict resigns. We go into an interregnum, the conclave is coming up. So I played a board game called Conclave with some friends of mine. A friend of mine owned it. He'd never played it before, so we literally read the rules that night, which is thick, and and we sat down and we played the game. The way the game works, you draw cards to determine what kind of Cardinal you are, so what kind of age you have, um, what some of your background is and where you're from, what some of your background is and where you're from. So I drew a 76 year old Jesuit from South America. I won. This was before Francis was elected, that's crazy.
Speaker 2:That's like wildly predictive, which I'm hoping. I'm hoping you're correct about the pizza ball a May 13th thing too. So you're the about the pizza ball May 13th thing too. You're the first person that came on with us and laid it out the way you have. I will say that I think that we have a very big audience tonight because, first off, it's the night before the conclave and I think there's something pretty exciting about being Catholic the night before the conclave. But I have not heard anybody give commentary like this michael would draw a 75 year old card from new york my friend got rid of the game and I already vowed I'm not gonna play it again.
Speaker 2:So no, it's like a ouija board. You sicko, why would you do that to us? Michael manifested, francis on the church. You got to be kidding me. I've been saying I'm trying to, I'm trying to meme Cardinal Dolan's papacy into existence, just as a goof, and as soon as it happens I'm going to go. What have?
Speaker 4:I done. Oh my God, yes, why would you?
Speaker 2:I have. I have because I want to tell everybody that Cardinal the Pope confirmed my daughter. Oh, my daughter, oh my gosh, I would be so insufferable. You have no idea. Yeah, me and Majaria will gladly own that one you guys will have. Oh man, I don't know how much life he's got left in him. It would be really weird if the new Pope chose the name Michael II. I have to go away. I have to run away now. Um well, you want to know what's crazy. I watched, we got a cameo in the latest, uh, vatican catholic video, the peter diamond video yes, but you did because because of wagner.
Speaker 2:Uh, wagner was in it too. I don't think it was the same show, but I was talking, like you know. I don't know whatever I was, I forgot even what he said, but I never knew how insane those guys were about their like, their very specific analysis of the apocalypse and how like they see this last seven popes as the seven kings of the like. I'm like, what the hell am I watching right now? Like you guys think I'm nuts. Those guys are off their rocker man.
Speaker 1:I mean, they use fake names.
Speaker 4:So so I all right. Um, I remember when they did a video on michael voris back in 2015, I think, yeah, and you know this is after his, you know he came out and he said look, you know, I had this issue in the past, but it's gone, so we, it seemed like he was okay. Anyway, they, they put out this video against him and you know what they focused on what his twirling of the pencil and they said he was casting spells they might not have been wrong about that.
Speaker 2:Stop it. I'm michael boris, and welcome to the vortex where I was trapped and exposed, I still remember that stupid line from his vortex episodes. Oh my goodness yeah they're I, I was.
Speaker 4:I was pretty flummoxed by their their assertion that twirling a pencil in the air to go along with the vortex. And of course they super analyzed the vortex also and said, oh, that's a vortex, it's like a swirling pool to hell, or it was just like I think they're the original internet spurgs.
Speaker 2:They're like the original autistic internet guys. The way they break things down, I don't know. They're very entertaining. And the thing is their apologetic stuff is actually really good. Like when they do apologetic stuff it's good, but man, their apocalyptic stuff is wild. Very entertaining, very entertaining, yeah, very entertaining.
Speaker 4:So they actually do really good analysis of Freemasonry and communism.
Speaker 1:They've got great stuff on that.
Speaker 4:I mean, it's like they do have a good strong understanding of things and look, everything that went down with Voris kind of allowed hindsight's 20-20,. Right, you look back and you go, oh my gosh, but the fact of the matter is that they say things that are just so out, out, in left field. It's like where in the hell is this coming from?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's man, what a, what a, what a, what a horrible downfall that was to witness.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, I mean again Whatever about that.
Speaker 2:Just a horrible downfall.
Speaker 4:I don't care but.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know, man, michael, this was a great episode, man, I think.
Speaker 2:I think if we do get A Pierre Pizzabala on May 13th, you all better, better, buckle up, because it's going to be a wild ride, guys. I'm just I don't know. I can't shake the feeling that that's going to happen, even if it's not May 13th, that he's going to be the one who walks out, and I don't know why, because I don't know much about the guy other than he's the patriarch of jerusalem and there's so many people I'm talking to have that same, just inner sense that it's going to be him to be fair, that, yeah, that, like there is the whole I don't know what, do you want to call it the whole precedent that, like you know, the one who goes into the, the conclave, as pope, leaves his pope, he's a cardinal.
Speaker 1:Yep, and there is a reason for that.
Speaker 4:So I'm just going to say this May 13th, everybody buy stock options for pizza hut dominoes. All on May 13th.
Speaker 1:Molly says don't forget the block molly says don't forget the block anthony, and dolan wins.
Speaker 2:I? I just you want to know why. I said dolan, though, to be honest, because he gave a few interviews where he was describing what they're looking for in the next pope and he's like we want the joy and the gentleness of pope francis, francis, and we want the conviction of benedict and we want the gravity of or it was like the theology of benedict and the gravity of conviction of pope john, and I'm like he's describing himself or what he thinks he is. And then I saw, uh, gavin ashenden did an interview with somebody and it was like Cardinal Pell is still with us in spirit and that spirit is in Cardinal Dolan and he's emerging as this senior figure who's managed to bring people together.
Speaker 2:So it's like if that thing got deadlocked, I could almost see these Cardinals who don't know anybody and he's the guy going around saying, hey, come over here and come and talk to these guys. You guys are kind of like-minded, let's discuss our idea, like I can see them, but getting locked up and going. You know what, dolan was a very gentle and nice guy and he seems to have like they don't know him, like we know him, you know. It's like I kind of think he's the guy. He would be the interim guy they're looking for. He would try to placate everybody and it would be a bit messy.
Speaker 4:Lord, preservus from lukewarm leaders.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and New Yorkers, and New Yorkers, lukewarmness man it has.
Speaker 4:Don't let us appear media.
Speaker 2:Linger longer, guys? No, because don't let us appear. Media linger longer guys. No, um, lukewarmness, man, because I look, I even talked to gordon about this a bit yesterday.
Speaker 2:Like john paul ii and benedict both seem to have a very apocalyptic view of our times. Right, like john paul ii was like the final battle is going to be between marriage and the family. Benedict almost seemed to. He implied the third vision of Fatima had not yet come to fruition, even after the Vatican gave their silly explanation. He's like I don't know, these things still have to take place in the church. He almost seemed to think in his writings that he was the bishop in white in the Fatima secret. Like if you read Marco Tussauds, uh, whole articles about Benedict and Ticonius and stuff like he, benedict really saw himself as that bishop in white that you know. We, we saw a bishop in white, he, we thought he was the Pope, but we couldn't, you know, we couldn't be certain or whatever that exact phrasing is, I think, benedict. So these two men who have this very apocalyptic vision of the times they're in were so weak and timid to stand up to the wolves in the church. It's a bizarre thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yep.
Speaker 2:All right, you guys thought you might bounce off me a little bit with that one, but I guess not.
Speaker 3:I don't know. You swing and you miss. All right, you guys thought you might bounce off me a little bit with that one, but I guess not, you're swinging your miss sometimes.
Speaker 2:He's actually the long island, no shadabas, which?
Speaker 1:is, he knows the long island medium, so perfect I, I actually do the.
Speaker 2:the long island medium is my godson's aunt, oh, that's right. I think I remember that yeah it's a very strange situation, but I'm doing everything I can to get, and they're Catholic too, and it's like every time I see them I'm just on them.
Speaker 4:The king of the hill ending Lots of clean burning hell. I'll tell you what.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you one thing I've enjoyed the interregnum period. It's like nobody's getting mad at us for talking about anything. It's like there's no pope for me to be disobedient to it's been.
Speaker 1:There's, yeah, no stupid encyclicals coming out, and I've even had some of the pope's planers reach out to.
Speaker 2:Not maybe not pope's planers, but some of the guys we've had a little friction with have reached out to me and apologized to me for like brash things they've said to me and been like hey man, like no things are about to change well even if they do it's.
Speaker 2:Look, I do think there is a lot of room for, uh, peace to be made amongst people who maybe were, you know, maybe the more critical side of Francis and those who wanted to be good sons of the church, so held back from criticizing Francis. Like there is room for peace to be made there if we get a good Pope in. So let's pray. Let's pray for unity in the church, but under a good authority, I mean.
Speaker 2:I think that's the perfect way to go about it and I think that's a good way to end guys. We did a good, solid one and a half for you guys tonight. We're going to see how the week plays out. We'll probably jump on tomorrow. I think we're going to jump on tomorrow. If Rob's not up to it, me and Nick will jump on. But Michael, I definitely want I know you got a lot going on with your chat channel, but we get white smoke man. I want post post loja analysis with Michael Hitchborn. All right, I, dude, I love having you on man. You're one of my favorite people ever to have on this show and our, our our audience.
Speaker 4:You are by far our audience's favorite guests, so Well, a lot of fun. I I I don't get to let my hair down, as somebody said very often, and I don't have much on the sides to let down anyway.
Speaker 2:But I love when you come on with your button open, your top button open.
Speaker 1:It's always a good time someone on twitter says they uh, next time you're on, they want you to talk about the uh magnetic polar shift.
Speaker 2:Okay, Do some research. Michael, you got a homework project. We're going to have to get into some of those I'll read up tonight. All right, guys, this was a fun one. We will join you tomorrow. Come back and we'll give you, guys, our thoughts on the rumor mill tomorrow. So, all right, take us out, brother.
