Mixed Emotions on the Death of Pope Francis

In this raw and heartfelt episode recorded just hours after Pope Francis's death, three Catholic commentators process their complex emotions about the end of a challenging 12-year pontificate. The conversation navigates the difficult balance between respectfully mourning a spiritual father while honestly acknowledging the pain many traditionalists experienced under his leadership.

"I really didn't think it would ever end," one host admits, capturing the shock felt by many Catholics worldwide. The discussion explores how Francis's papacy, while divisive, unintentionally fostered a revival of traditional Catholicism by driving faithful Catholics to deepen their understanding of the faith and form meaningful communities. "The three of us don't know each other without Francis," they realize, reflecting on how adversity created unexpected bonds.

The hosts offer a sobering perspective on the upcoming conclave, which they believe could be "one of the most consequential in Church history." Their analysis of potential papal candidates reveals both hope and concern about the Church's future direction, particularly for traditionalists who lost access to their liturgical traditions. One host provocatively suggests, "We're going to look back on the Francis pontificate with fondness," fearing that challenges could intensify under new leadership.

Beyond ecclesiastical politics, the conversation touches on deeply personal spiritual journeys through Lent, experiences watching The Passion with children, and the special circumstance of new Catholics who entered the Church at Easter only to witness a papal death the next day. Through it all runs a thread of faith in God's providence even in difficult times.

What will you take from this candid conversation about faith, leadership, and navigating religious turmoil? Listen now and join the discussion about this pivotal moment in Catholic history.

Chapters

• 0:00 Initial Reactions to Pope Francis's Death
• 4:31 The Francis Effect: Unintended Catholic Unity
• 9:48 Traditionalists Under Tyranny
• 16:10 Facing an Uncertain Papal Future
• 27:14 Praying for Francis and New Catholics
• 44:42 Reflections on Lent and Personal Spiritual Growth
• 54:58 The Passion of Christ and Spiritual Sensitivity
• 1:37:50 Final Thoughts on Francis's Legacy

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Sancte, sancte, amare morti necradas nos.

Speaker 3: 0:34

I didn't. Yeah, we didn't think an opening video would be appropriate, so we figured we'd just drop in raw guys. Man, this is, I didn't think it would ever end. In all honesty, dropping raw guys man, this is, I didn't think it would ever end Like in all honesty. Even when he got sick a few weeks back, I'm like part of me was just like nah, this guy's not going to croak, he's not going to, he's going to be around for a while. My heart breaks for Rob after hearing the Carlo news.

Speaker 3: 1:03

Oh, so Carlo Acudis' canonization got pushed back, which is appropriate. For a while, my heart breaks for rob after hearing the call-o news. Oh, it's a call-o acutus is um uh, canonization got pushed back, which is appropriate yeah, but pushing you back for forever might be appropriate too the. I really didn't, um, I really didn't think it would happen like so suddenly, like really I was not expecting this at all. Man, like I think he would know the hospital stint I don't know, man to me it.

Speaker 2: 1:31

I figured they were sending him home out of the hospital to spend the last few weeks of his life you did say that you did.

Speaker 3: 1:38

You definitely did say, like when you, when you saw the first picture of him, you like I was like I don't know, man, maybe he's gonna. You're be like, no, that guy's at the end.

Speaker 2: 1:47

And you know what? I'm glad he was able to spend his last few weeks back home.

Speaker 3: 1:54

There's this conversation going on on Twitter that I see, and I saw Rick Barrett saying stuff, but everybody's like the Catholic. Look, don't you know? The catholic commentators are gonna get do whatever they can to get clicks out of this. But it's like dude, we're catholic commentators and the pope died. Like are we not supposed to come on and have a conversation about it, like this is? It's not about clicks, it's like I mean it's not even.

Speaker 2: 2:20

It's not even just that we're, we're catholic guys, right like yes, that's what I mean.

Speaker 3: 2:24

All I wanted to do is talk to catholic friends.

Speaker 2: 2:26

Today I work with a bunch of freaking heathens especially from like all the protestants and non-catholics that work today, had a ton of questions, like sure.

Speaker 3: 2:34

Now you know you're interested now yeah dude, I I had nobody to talk to all day. All I wanted to do was hear catholic commentators talking about this issue. So it's like to me it's just crazy to jump in that position where you're like you're not allowed to talk about this, it's inappropriate. It's like look, here's the thing. There's like different ways people are going about this. I see I saw one commentator this morning I won't name like self-flagellating himself and I'm like I don't know. It's like what are you doing there? Then I saw't name like self-flagellating himself and I'm like I don't know it's. It's like what are you doing there? Then I saw other people like coming out and like even the Dr Kwasniewski's response Like I do think there's an appropriate way to go about it, where it's not Francis was the greatest thing ever, or you know, he was the worst thing the church has ever seen.

Speaker 2: 3:22

I don't know. I think this is just a way to just be honest Right, be honest and respectful.

Speaker 3: 3:29

It's pretty simple. There has been some amazing things that have happened under Francis, unintentionally, unintentionally, the three of us don't know each other without Francis. It's possible. I guess, unintentionally, like I, the three of us don't know each other without francis.

Speaker 1: 3:47

I mean it's possible, I guess.

Speaker 3: 3:48

But like the whole idea of us doing a show together, things like that, like that is a direct, uh like effect of francis, like that's the francis effect.

Speaker 3: 3:58

That francis effect was people that he was like this divider who was like you know, you were either in the where Peter is crowd or you kind of were a traditional or or even a conservative Catholic who was just like like your alarm bells were going off and you're like there's something off here and you kind of dug deeper into your faith and it I mean I've made so many fricking friendships because of the conversations that we've had on this show and just I mean I don made so many freaking friendships because of the conversations that we've had on this show and just I mean I don't know there's so many good things about this pontificate that you can remember, without trashing Francis necessarily.

Speaker 3: 4:34

I mean the guy did just pass. Today I don't want to say you know, but to also pretend everything's been fine. I mean, have you guys ever known somebody who lost a parent when, like maybe the mother was super overbearing or something and and the child said like there was a relief, and they feel guilty saying it like, but there was a relief there when the parent passed yeah, I have not.

Speaker 2: 4:58

I've heard people describe it, though I've never known someone in my personal life that's been in that situation I mean there was a relief when my dad passed, you know, and like I just kind of reconciled with him honestly just months prior, yeah, um, the relief. Yeah, yeah, I mean there was definitely relief and I think his passing in me being a father now helped me better come to terms with his fatherhood and where you know he had his failings, um, well, I know, I know someone who um very close to me and their mother like had such high demands on the and it was a very like performance based love you know.

Speaker 3: 5:49

So like if, if this person didn't do exactly what the mother wanted, they were like you know the mother would be furious with them and wouldn't talk to them, shun them and stuff like that. Now, when you have, if you're especially for women, if you're a woman and you have a mother, like that I could understand there being a relief where you don't have the pressure anymore right To perform and things like that. So I've seen it in natural families like that. And the thing is it's been a rough 12 years, man. Like it's been a really rough 12 years for Catholics who take their faith seriously. It's been nonstop beatings of just playing games with the faith, playing games with doctrine, pushing the limit on things. Every freaking week there was another news story that everybody had to cover and it's like you get this, you get this reputation that like, oh, you're just a francis craig, but it's like what the hell?

Speaker 2: 6:39

like I just want to talk to people about what I'm seeing I think also, like, especially for the over, over the last, what is it For almost four years now, of of traditionalness custodians? Like, yeah, Like you know, those of us who are trad, you know whatever that means, like we've really lived under um a tyranny of sorts Right now. I mean not mean, not, not anything like yeah, it's not physical right.

Speaker 2: 7:09

Right, it's not like full-on persecution or anything, but like we've lived under the tyranny of a father that you know we feel like honestly didn't love us yeah, right, yeah, I mean and and like when, um, when the whole stupid umod thing started right and they had the diocesan phase where they invited you to go and speak your concerns, like I went to our diocese stupid little synod meeting and for everyone else it was like, oh, we need the church to do more about social issues, we need the church to do more about drug abuse. And I stood up and told him like I feel like my church, like my spiritual father's, like you as bishop and our pope don't like me and honestly dislike me and in my family and and now it's just like that tyranny is over, you know, and whether or not a new tier is?

Speaker 3: 7:59

we hope I don't know right, but the tyranny of franc is over.

Speaker 3: 8:03

So well, nick, I watched your show today and I do see a change in a lot of your demeanor, a change in a lot of your approach. I don't know if that was through reflection over Lent and stuff. I think you probably focused a lot more on your interior life and you're paying a lot closer attention to the things you're saying online, things like that. So I wasn't sure how comfortable you'd be with this conversation, even you know, but I don't like. Do you think there's anything wrong with us? Just, I mean, this isn't a bash francis session, it's more. Just, dude, it has been a. It's an emotional roller coaster that we've been through for the past 12 years.

Speaker 2: 8:49

And it's only the third death of a pope in my lifetime, and it's only the second death of a reigning pope in my lifetime, right, so it's a big event.

Speaker 3: 8:58

Well, not just that, not just that. Well, I'll let you answer first, nick.

Speaker 4: 9:02

Well, I was just going to say I had a person reach out to me asking my thoughts this morning and I was looking at all the different commentators that you mentioned and I said to myself there's a fine line between canonization and condemnation, and that kind of seems to be the two general trajectories that I see Some people are lauding everything you did, and what's kind of scary, just on a supernatural level, is it's a lot of the mainstream media and people just saying like he's in heaven, he's in heaven, and it's just like no, we don't know that we actually, like it's charitable to pray for him, like cause, we don't.

Speaker 4: 9:31

We don't know that outside of some type of divine revelation or something. And then there's, of course, going to be the other people who you know it was like it didn't matter any tiny good thing he could have done, it was still the worst thing ever. And so you should talk about this. You have to talk about it, though, I think, in the level that's appropriate. It's like first you have to do unto others as you would have them do to you, so it's like he's died. We should pray for his soul and, in tandem with that, we should pray for the next pope, because it's like this next pope. I don't know if you guys have looked at like the, the like kind of generally like 10 to 12 potential lead figures. There's like four of them that are kind of solid. We'll get we'll get into.

Speaker 3: 10:10

We'll get into that, we'll, we'll dive. I do want to touch on this, this comment rob highlighted, though. So, as a as a person looking to convert, this was my first easter attending a catholic church and the pope dies the next day. I'm trying to make sense all this. So there's also this fine line of there's a ton of new Catholics, nick, you included, who have never been through this and never really experienced the conclave, right Like you came in in 2020. You don't, you weren't paying attention to Catholic politics back in the last conclave, right.

Speaker 4: 10:41

So I actually, I actually was, because I'm that, that nerd, but aside from that, but it, but it was nothing like this. I mean, I was, I was a kid.

Speaker 3: 10:48

You know that was 2013, yeah and you didn't have much vested interest in it like so much. It was more just like a worldly event that was happening. But for me, I vividly remember benedict's election and I also remember um francis's election very, very vividly. So now there's all these new Catholics that come in and this is their first conclave and it's like, yeah, like there's a, there's a period of a morning that we go through, but then there is something super exciting about electing a new Pope and especially if you're a new Catholic, it's like I just came into the church and like people just came in two days ago and they're getting a new pope, like that is an exciting event and it's.

Speaker 3: 11:31

I do think that this conclave is going to be one of the most consequential in church history, like not just our lifetimes in church history. I think this could be the most consequential papal election. And I do also have this really daunting feeling that we're going to look back on the Francis pontificate with fondness, saying, oh man, we had it easy back then, like because things get exceedingly worse for us, like we do not know what the future holds right now. Very true, I find myself grateful for how awful the protestants have been behaving. They're forcing me to defend him and see my own faults for not having the highest opinion of him, forcing me to pray for a lot, and that's that's another thing I had. I had to force myself to pray for him today because there was no, there was no um natural inclination to do it, but I knew it was the just thing to do. So I had to force myself to pray for Francis today. It wasn't easy, but I hope people pray for me when I'm gone, whether they love me or hate at me.

Speaker 4: 12:36

Yeah, I mean, think about it. If you're a soul that's now died, it's attached from its body and you're before the particular judgment immediately upon your death. You're judged for every thought, word and deed you did. What did you believe, how did you love? And because of your station in life as pope, you will be judged way more strictly. This is why, like I do—I said this morning like I am genuinely sorry Not because you guys are wrong when it comes to like, I think he had a psychological terror. I think that's the best way to describe it, because, you know, for me, I was always just like I don't know. Is my parish going to get canceled? I don't know I don't know.

Speaker 4: 13:14

And then, when it did, it's a good way to describe it exactly. It's scary, but then it's like, even with that, it's like he was still our father and like the only thing that we should do, if we're called to love one another, as christ loved us, is to pray for him. Of course we're going to have these conversations about his legacy, that those have to happen because we can't just continue being like everything was fine, etc.

Speaker 3: 13:39

That's no, I. What I've chosen to do is really think about how many, because every single good thing that's ever happened in my life came through a cross. What I've chosen to do is really think about how many, because every single good thing that's ever happened in my life came through across like it really did. And every single good thing that comes in your life doesn't come easy. It's there's some kind of hardship to it, and all of the hardships you think you faced over the last 12 years, none of it was none of. It was physical, physical, um persecution, right. So it was all psychological torment, but there was also some beautiful friendships that I made through it. There was, I mean, I man. So I guess we'll jump into lent a little bit um, we'll don't forget.

Speaker 2: 14:21

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Speaker 3: 14:23

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Speaker 2: 14:37

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Speaker 3: 14:39

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Speaker 2: 15:04

Let me look at the calendar real quick. Like may 2nd, you haven't done may 2nd to get 20 off instead of 10 off yeah, and look, mother's day is coming up.

Speaker 3: 15:17

They're great gifts for mother's day, they're great gifts for easter and they are an amazing sponsor. They let us say whatever we want. So if you guys want to help support the show, go buy a bottle, buy a gift for your mother or your wife for Mother's Day and that helps us out. So Lent so I went to the Easter Vigil Saturday night and it links into the Traditiona thing because I have to drive an hour and a half to go to a proper liturgy, one of those things I have to drive an hour and a half to go to a proper liturgy. But while I was sitting there I had this overwhelming joy come over me. While I'm at the, at the vigil, I was staring up at the cross, at um, at holy innocence, and it brought me back to which I think I talked to you guys a little bit about it on the show where I was weeping in front of the altar, when I was at like a really rock bottom place in my life and my marriage, everything, and I just remember being so broken and like begging God for help and then just being angry with him because he hadn't helped me yet. And it's like you promised to set us free. Why am I not free?

Speaker 3: 16:22

It was about five years ago that happened and I'm in front of that same altar and this overwhelming joy came over me and it was like there were three prayers I asked God to answer and he answered all three of them. And it was during this tumultuous time in the church that God answered three major life determining prayers of mine. And it's like I just had this feeling of joy come over me and it was like holy cow, like God, you answer every one of my prayers. You freaking love me. I know there's nothing I could ask that you won't answer, so I prayed a couple of more prayers in front of that altar. That has to do with my kids, but it's like all this mayhem going on and I have to drive an hour and a half but I don't know, man, I've I haven't felt god's presence like that in a in a while and that's and it's like there's no better thing to be than catholic, even through all these crazy things that we're talking about praise god, yeah no, I agree, that's awesome.

Speaker 3: 17:36

I'd love to go up it's such a pretty church on the photos that I see and tried to like fall in love with fasting. And I'm not going back to living like I was, like I'm going to stay doing what I was doing and just treat Sundays as feast days and just try to live that life of fast, fast, fast feast, because it really is the epitome of what a traditional lifestyle is. It's like if you're not living a life like that where you're saving your feast days to be special and important, you're kind of a life like that where you're saving your feast days to be special and important, you're kind of just saying words. At that point, you don't actually live the Catholic faith.

Speaker 4: 18:12

Yeah, there's this part in mystical theology where it's like if we're attached to stuff like food or whatever, we can't even properly enjoy it, because if we're asked to let it go, we're these irrational creatures who are just like, just like. No, give me more. I. I cling to this, even though there's the objective good of god. But when we do detach ourselves and we're attached to god, then we can go back and rightly enjoy whatever the thing was um, the the thing is, when I broke that 40 hour fast, I felt awful, oh really terrible.

Speaker 3: 18:43

I was just like, why did I eat? I could have made it longer too. I was like I just I only went to 40 hours and then, like, I was like, oh, I guess it's time to eat, but I easily could have kept going. So I think, you know, I might try to do something like that, like once a week or once every two weeks or something. But, um, molly said she's feeling very attacked right now. Um, now, okay, so now what happens with the, the bishops that francis punished, right like the stricklands, and, uh, um, cardinal burke?

Speaker 3: 19:20

right, it all depends on what the next book does well, that's, that's what I'm saying like we don't know what the future holds. It's really and there is something to the pontificating on what the future holds. But we're here now. We're coming up on a papal conflict. I think they kind of broke us with the warm-up a few weeks ago, because we kind of all had these conversations a few weeks ago thinking Francis was on his deathbed, but now he's gone. And it really the political intrigue going on behind the walls of the Vatican right now, everybody just politicking and trying to figure out what, who, whose guy is going to get in. I, I don't know man.

Speaker 4: 20:02

I don't have a good feeling about it.

Speaker 4: 20:04

I saw it was interesting. I saw Sarat trending on Twitter earlier, like early this morning, and I'm not saying that that's, of course, like indicative of anything aside from just a lot of people liking that idea. But yeah, no, this is where it's like. Generally, people have to pray for the conclave because, like there are some good candidates, because I don't think Sarat will get in. I pray that he will, but if he was, that would be amazing because, as we all know, he's insanely holy. He's also very, very prudent and he has his eyes open when it comes to the situation with Islam and with the migrant crisis and things along that nature. Pete Zabala would also be, I think, a pretty decent choice because he would not only at least move the church into a more like liturgically traddy way and like a decent, sound orthodoxy of truth, um, but also when it comes to the middle east issues, right, he's pretty well as elected.

Speaker 4: 20:57

He's gonna reign 33 days like jp1, because the israelis will kill him yeah, I was gonna say it might be, might be fairly short, because he's he, he's's open in his opposition. And then there's I'd obviously love to see Burke right, just because it'd be kind of cool to have an American pope.

Speaker 3: 21:13

Not going to happen, but Pretty doubtful.

Speaker 4: 21:15

But you know, I mean the thing I don't know. See, like, what I'm praying for genuinely and I'm asking God with expectant faith and then also just trusting him. If this doesn't happen, I'm praying that we have some type of St Pius V type figure where you know, if you look at that period after Luther's Reformation, you know the popes they came in but it was just they couldn't do anything. You know what I'm saying. Like it, your, all, your clergy is like messed up sexually mostly. You know there's land problems everywhere, northern Europe's apostatizing. You know every, all the orders are infighting, you know calling each other heretics.

Speaker 4: 21:54

And then St Pius V shows up and he just like, by the almighty hand of God, clean stuff out through the power, especially through the power of the rosary, and I'm praying that that's what happens.

Speaker 4: 22:04

You know God rides straight with crooked lines and so he could take a situation where, for instance, like, let's just say it's a moderate candidate. Because there's two things everyone has to know about all the cardinals that the Holy Father has elected. One is that they all have more so pastoral backgrounds than they do academic, which can get a little. There's good and bad in that. And then, two, they all come from the peripheries, so like there's cardinals now from mongolia, there's cardinals from parts of africa that have never been represented. But the hopeful good thing we can actually have in this is because so many of these places are in the third world which are more socially conservative, perhaps there is a good chance that we do have at least on like sexual ethics, especially like a conservative pope who holds the line yeah, and you never know if the grace, that if graces, will come with the office and convert somebody.

Speaker 3: 22:59

But, um, yeah, I don't know. I think that that's the kind of thing we yeah, that is absolutely false. I think we're just going to have to wait and see what happens with that, but I kind of just have this feeling that it's not going to get better yet. It's just not. I really think we're going to look back on the Francis papacy and be like it wasn't so bad. We didn't know what we had when we had it.

Speaker 4: 23:28

It may not, but I guess I don't know. I'm sometimes an eternal optimist, but I guess what my hope is is it's like this If we do, let's say, get the, what is it like? The prefect for Vatican State, that Italian one? He's really bad. I mean he's like bad, I mean he's yeah. Yeah, he's the like they. They suspect he's the ghost writer of tc and so getting someone who's like even more anti-tlm in there, um, would be that might be, that might be better, I don't know like I almost don't want a moderate man like I, kind of I worry about the moderate.

Speaker 3: 24:02

The moderate moderate makes me nervous, Rob. I want to play a clip of how the mainstream media is handling this, because this is the thing that's going to drive me the craziest. I just put it as mainstream media glazing. The way they're framing this is just infuriating. This is just what they're going to do, though. So you got it, Rob.

Speaker 1: 24:30

Sadness that Pope Francis' papacy has come to an end, the 88-year-old passing away early this morning after an extended illness, but just one day after a surprise appearance on Easter Sunday, francis was the people's pope, reaching out, embracing, including the sick, the poor, the forgotten, pushing himself even as he became visibly frail, needing a cane and a wheelchair. Austin Ivory co-authored a book with Francis.

Speaker 3: 25:00

I think we're going to get a copy right now.

Speaker 4: 25:02

I want to pause it for a second. Yeah, do a few pauses.

Speaker 3: 25:06

Do a few pauses. So this is so. Even Francis was the people's Pope right.

Speaker 2: 25:12

Yeah, unless you're white or trad or conservative.

Speaker 3: 25:16

This is where they're going to get into how Francis is the first Pope who ever talked about the poor and love and, you know, totally different from all the.

Speaker 4: 25:25

Popes of the past. Yeah, the ABC article or the video that came out on like Good Morning America or something like that. It was like five minutes. Three and a half of the minutes were devoted to homosexuality.

Speaker 3: 25:38

Yeah, let's go, we'll get into it. It goes there.

Speaker 1: 25:41

He's encountering people, he's performing the gospel, and without that for him there's no 20 papacy for him. In more than a decade, as pope francis moved the catholic church away from the culture wars and back to its original mission of love and mercy, throwing open the doors of the church to all, this is insane they moved the church away from the culture wars, are you?

Speaker 4: 26:06

joking me Climate change, migrant crisis.

Speaker 3: 26:10

He just joined the other side in those debates, but the culture war within the church has never been more pronounced.

Speaker 4: 26:20

Yeah, especially and again I'm trying to approach it delicately, but it's like Benedict they hated Benedict. They made fun of Benedict all the time because he was the ivory tower theologian who, at least on social issues, was fairly conservative.

Speaker 3: 26:35

Benedict was just as bad with climate change and stuff, though.

Speaker 4: 26:38

Oh no, I know, but I'm like— he was just as bad with that stuff. But when it came to sexual ethics, like he, he was at least more like pronounced or just saying no. But the line.

Speaker 4: 26:49

The line that I really don't like is when he says they open the doors to all because it's like I literally had my doors shut and I'm not allowed to have mass in a church, like I mean that that's the thing where it's like again, I'm like I'm trying to show as much like respect I can, but, but it's like I literally lost my actual physical church and so did 700 other people and they they just this last week. Uh, we have a friend of mine, actually, who's in the chat, who was, uh there the week before, but in Detroit they shut down. I think it was 38 traditional Latin mass parishes 38 in one week.

Speaker 3: 27:20

Yeah, All right. Well, first off, real quick. I just want to say I will be on with Joe McLean on Joe's show.

Speaker 1: 27:26

Wednesday morning.

Speaker 3: 27:30

Wednesday morning at seven 30. I'll be on with Joe McLean, then we I have a lot of. I took Wednesday off. So Wednesday is going to be a jam packed day. I have I'm doing Joe's show in the morning, then at 10 AM on our channel I have Michael Hichborn and Mark Lambert, and then at 10 am on our channel I have michael hitchborn and mark lambert, and then at 1 pm I have katherine bennett. Just me and her are going to have a conversation, and then at eight o'clock that night kale zeldin is going to join me and rob nick. You can join us for that one if you want. Um, so I took wednesday off. We're gonna you guys are gonna get like five shows that day.

Speaker 4: 27:59

So, um, yeah, we'll go from there but um, the five dollar super chat to give them some energy.

Speaker 3: 28:05

Yeah honestly, I took a day off of work, so if you guys want to throw me a tip, it'd be appreciated. But um the um. This is the kind of stuff that makes it difficult to look on francis's papacy with any kind of fondness. It's like it was just one thing after another and just the confusion.

Speaker 2: 28:30

And not even that. I've been trying to not be super negative all day about him, but I can't sit and watch these absolute lies being parroted and not just be angry about it. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 28:42

Yeah, but that's the thing. He kind of set the stage for this and he never clarified any of it and he never. You know what I mean. It's not like the news is lying about what he did, like that. No no, no was the point of what francis was doing.

Speaker 2: 28:56

To put that, message ultimately responsible for for it. I don't disagree there, but yeah no, the lie.

Speaker 3: 29:02

What you're talking about. The lie is to act as if the church never was open to everybody and like that is that is the lie. As if Francis is the first Pope who ever cared for the poor, or I mean it's just insane the way these people see things through a lens. It's so ridiculous. Like it. It. It is frustrating man, and it's it's a difficult thing to swallow. And you think about all the good people who were punished because they spoke out and just said hey, there's something about like I don't know man. Like is the next Pope going to be Catholic? Like what do we do If the guy that? What if it's Parolin that comes out? Like we have tapes of Parolin endorsing homosexuality.

Speaker 2: 29:46

Like things like that.

Speaker 3: 29:47

Like what do you like what do?

Speaker 2: 29:48

you do with that. Francis wrote the forward to Jim Martin's book.

Speaker 1: 29:53

So yeah, it's not too much worse.

Speaker 4: 29:55

If it's something like that, then we've kind of talked about it before, but it's like it's one of those situations where if the guy is openly going into the position well if the guy is openly going into the position well known by everybody, hey, this guy does not hold the catholic faith. Then it's like okay, does he?

Speaker 3: 30:11

there can't be peaceful acceptance of that guy right like we have to be up in arms, like, like we really do have to be and it is, look it's. There's never been a more exciting time to be catholic. But man, I'm very worried about the crop of candidates they're putting forward, like when I, when I look at that list of guys that they're talking about being Papa B-Late, it's like holy cow, we're in trouble, that's, that's the way it goes.

Speaker 4: 30:36

Yeah, no it's. It's one of those things where, um, yeah, yeah, it's scary. I think about just all the doctrinal ambiguities. I mean the one that was bigger. The biggest issue for me was the one last year I think it was in summer, but it was the all religions lead to God comment, yeah, 2013, where, like outside of like ewt and a few like catholic answers apologetics, there was no catholic like online media presence. Like there is today, nothing even close. Everyone's gonna be watching commentating. So if there is gonna be like a, a quote-unquote peaceful acceptance, it's gonna only probably be with a guy who's fairly orthodox. Other than that, people are gonna be up in arms the.

Speaker 3: 31:21

Uh, somebody's talking about going orthodox. Like. I'll tell you one thing that also happened to me while I was um at at the liturgy on on saturday. Uh, yeah, devin said it don't go orthodox, don't, don't, don't, like you'd be an idiot to go orthodox, I'm sorry. Like everything we're talking about, it's the catholic church. Is the church that the devil is after. For a reason like this is all the things we're seeing are because the church is the bride of christ. Like the catholic church is the church. There's no such. It's so funny when you hear the orthodox talk about like orthodoxy using a denomination. It's the one true church. Like you guys don't agree with each other which one?

Speaker 3: 32:03

which one, which one of the 50 or 60 of it? Like what are you even talking about? It's silly to me, Like it's not even a viable option, I think.

Speaker 2: 32:11

I think If Catholicism isn't true, it's all false.

Speaker 3: 32:14

Exactly, that's literally what it is.

Speaker 4: 32:16

It's like Well it's also a prideful argument because like subliminally behind the argument, if it's not doctrine and it's, I don't like this guy because I feel like he's pushing like leftist social policy. It's like this is the height of pride. You're telling me that you're looking for this perfect church in the sense that there are actual, experientially righteous, perfect people.

Speaker 3: 32:37

When you show up to that place, you'll make it imperfect whole point of the like the church is so integral to the gospel, like that the church is is the vehicle by which god converts the world like it's I'm sorry but it is the, it is the mechanism that god uses.

Speaker 3: 32:56

There is, there is not even like the slightest, but I look, I I have uh, um, like uh, uh I don't what would even be the word Like I have like a softness towards the East because I think things are so messy right now that people are just trying to find their own way, definitely a little gay for the Ortho Bros.

Speaker 3: 33:14

Yeah, but the idea that that's the true church is just preposterous. I'm sorry, it's just a silly thing. I get people going there because that's the only place they can find sanity. I get people going there because that's the only place they can find sanity. But if you're saved there, it's not because you're there. It would be in spite of you being there, Like it's not. You know, I don't know.

Speaker 3: 33:32

I just think that it is pretty crazy and the things that we're talking about, like even Rob saying like sometimes he'll get stuck having to freaking go to some terrible liturgy because he has no choice to go. You know, people have to do what they can to live a Christian life under the current circumstances. So I kind of I have sympathy for it, Right, I mean, I hate that I have to drive two hours to go to church sometimes. Sometimes it's an hour, sometimes a little less, but it's. You know, you got to make some sacrifices right now. It is what it is and I'm fully, fully confident that God is going to intervene. But I really do think we're coming to that point where it's going to look like all hope is lost and then God will intervene and you'll go. This is very clearly God intervening, it will be unmistakable.

Speaker 4: 34:21

Or like I mean the thing is is that you might be very surprised, like we might legitimately just get a pretty decent pope next, and life goes on. I mean that's the thing with—that's the thing.

Speaker 3: 34:46

Like, we do feel like there is supposed to be some crescendo, but my point is that on God's timeline, not our timeline, things can be very, very different. You, I think that that's.

Speaker 4: 34:49

I think that is a like hopeful optimism, but I don't think it's a reality in any way. Because things are, of course, a reality, because because my point is it's like if god is the one who's ultimately like going to will whatever is going to take place into effect, then it's going to be an option, like through man's eyes, like we can see everything as hopeless it's just not how God operates through.

Speaker 3: 35:03

Typically, though, is all I'm saying Like God, I mean a lot of operated that way for the last 2000 years. What I'm saying is, when they're this bad, he likes the dramatic Miracle situation.

Speaker 3: 35:17

I just it's not good. Look the things are. You look at the current crop of hierarchy and how rotten they all are. It's going to take more than just a good pope getting in there. It's going to take generations of clergy learning to actually live the catholic faith out like they did before. This. Lax morals and lax practices all got like. It's just so lax you would need I'm not saying it's impossible, but I just think we need something a little more than just a you know a good Pope.

Speaker 4: 35:47

Yeah, yeah, and I see the argument. I don't think it's a bad argument. I just think that in a way, like if you go back and read church history, like it's more, I would say, easy to see laxity here, there and everywhere in church history, cause it's like when St Pius V showed around around, it was pretty lax, like when saint alfonso showed up to his diocese.

Speaker 3: 36:13

It was really, really lax, um. So the church is really filled with it.

Speaker 4: 36:15

Hey, thanks, laura um, they thought it was lax. That's my no, it was because, like back, compared to what it is now well, not, not in one sense. So the we see everything, the world's ending.

Speaker 3: 36:26

I'm saying something you say it all the time I know the world's ending, but I'm just saying it's not that I'm saying now my point is like we see it visibly because of the internet here, there and everywhere.

Speaker 4: 36:34

But I'm saying like, if you go back and read history about why, like luther's movement picked up so much steam, it was because it was very common to see concubines with the priest.

Speaker 3: 36:46

It was very common to have these guys running around saying fake pig latin and even even during henry v8's reign, right like all of those cardinals and stuff, would have side pieces.

Speaker 4: 36:56

You know they'd have and like people, people knew it and they saw it. And that's my point is it's like maybe you're right, like, like you're right because it's like, and so my point is just, god might just be like. The reason I'm not optimistic is like look how many people were baptized, like so many, hundreds of thousands of people baptized.

Speaker 3: 37:17

God is still converting hearts dramatically, but what I'm saying is even the, even the times you're describing. Um, yes, there were priests who maybe had a concubine and things like that, and maybe even cardinals and stuff like that, but the Catholic faith was still being preached and taught and they weren't trying to justify what they were doing. What we have now is a crop of men who are not just on Grindr, but they're suing Grindr because they let their private information out like there's absolutely no repentance for this.

Speaker 3: 37:47

It's like him angry that he got caught.

Speaker 4: 37:50

He's not repentant because no, no but my point is it's like is that all of them? Because the thing is, is that, on the one hand, like we can say, yeah, there's a lot of bad people that are inside of those positions, but also, at the same time, like there are a lot of good people who are there, who, yes, I will agree with you, a thousand percent ill-formed, um, but I think a lot of people still have a good heart whenever they're trying to like push forward something, and so that's my point. It's like I think we might be surprised we very much have a horrible pope, but I'm also optimistic that we're seeing a lot of catholics like the amount of Catholics I'm seeing online right now saying, all right, let's pray, let's do penance, like let's focus in these three weeks so that we try to really get a good pope. I'm like you don't think God's going to honor that. Like God can move in an amazing way, I'm not saying he won't.

Speaker 3: 38:37

I just think what we are seeing is part of salvation history right now. Like I think what we're witnessing is not just like I just I just think everything from the council to the Pope putting his tiara down, all of it like the infiltration of the older brother into our liturgy, all of it, I just I don't. I just think we're well beyond the the oh man, maybe we could. Just I just don't think that's where we're at.

Speaker 4: 39:08

I mean, you guys can disagree with me.

Speaker 3: 39:09

You guys could say I'm a doom pill.

Speaker 2: 39:11

I don't care. I have hours upon hours of I told you so video.

Speaker 3: 39:16

when your predictions go wrong, Okay, I don't think I'm going to be. I'll still double down on it. Hey, not for nothing. I'd rather you guys not send super chats for Rob's car. I think we should set something up separately for Rob.

Speaker 2: 39:27

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't need to go fund me for no, I'll be fine. You'll be fine, yes, I'll be fine, you'll be fine. Yes, I'll be fine, you sure, all right.

Speaker 3: 39:35

All right, yes, just do the chat away and I'll take half his money because I'm the boss. I got to put new windows in the house.

Speaker 4: 39:41

So I guess here's my point. Like I don't you guys are very generous.

Speaker 3: 39:48

I'm sorry.

Speaker 4: 39:48

Nick, I don't mean to cut you off, you guys are very generous. It a like yeah, you're right, like we see all these crazy things taking place, but I like it really could legitimately be so, like all these things could have happened and the crescendo moment is all these young people coming into the church you know what I'm saying like that could be the highlight of the story because, think about it, just let me give you one young little whippersnapper.

Speaker 3: 40:13

Hope.

Speaker 2: 40:13

You're like you look at Obama.

Speaker 4: 40:15

Oh, if you were if you were a Jew in the year circa 33, a D hold on.

Speaker 2: 40:22

Everyone put that for a future political campaign, three 80, three 80 norm.

Speaker 4: 40:28

You're, you're, your age, et cetera. You are looking for a Messiah to come and destroy all the enemies of God. I either, romans, and yet what was the whole mission of christ? It was personal sin, it was actual sin. That was the problem, wasn't the romans, it was the actual sin, and that's my point it's a terrible analogy, by the way.

Speaker 3: 40:45

I'm gonna I'm gonna chew you alive with it, but go ahead no, go, go for it.

Speaker 4: 40:49

But here's my point is that the point that christ came wasn't to rewrite a political ship per se. It was to get men to become holy. And my point is is that maybe what we've seen, or what we will see, is that a lot of these people are coming into the church. Things will end up becoming holy in order, and then we might just have a semi-normal pope, like it may not be that off the wall or that insane let me tell you what's a semi-normal pope, though I gotta destroy his analogy, right?

Speaker 3: 41:21

yeah, go for it I guess I'll show your analogy for a second here, because you're like, imagine you're a jew in 33 ad and you want this. Okay, great, but you're missing the point that the messiah did come and god had to come and fix the situation because it was so bad. And that's what I'm telling you needs to happen. I'm not saying God needs to come in the flesh. But there needs to be a, there needs to dude it is.

Speaker 3: 41:46

I don't, I don't. It's not me doom-pilling, it's look at the situation, man Like things are horrific on the whole level of society. Everything, Something needs to happen. I appreciate the optimism, and I could be wrong. I'm just shooting the crap with my three friends, but I see everything that has happened over the course of the past 75 years and I see that as the crescendo building up to this big moment that God is going to intervene. That's how I see it. I could be wrong, obviously, and you could be right.

Speaker 4: 42:21

Yeah, and I'm not against any of that and it's a totally valid position. My point is just I want people to hope and not blackpill.

Speaker 3: 42:30

But it's not a blackpill.

Speaker 4: 42:32

I don't see why you guys think that's a blackpill For you. It's not a black pill. I don't see why you guys think that's a black pill.

Speaker 3: 42:36

It's not a black pill. It's not a black pill if God intervenes.

Speaker 4: 42:37

I'm not talking about the rapture, no no, I understand that I'm saying for you it's not, but I'm saying the amount of people.

Speaker 2: 42:46

Why do we have to make everything about color? Can't we just not see color, guys?

Speaker 4: 42:49

So true, all right, or is the?

Speaker 2: 42:51

black pill going to stab me and attract me.

Speaker 3: 42:53

I just love that. Nick's a hope and change Obama kid. That's what I think of in this conversation.

Speaker 4: 42:59

Yeah. I don't see why people like, yeah, I mean, it's not that big of a deal, it's just like. I guess this is my point. I think we're in agreement. I believe that God can. We both believe that God can do great things. He can write straight with crooked lines. But the way I just choose to look at it is I prefer to go into a situation expecting that God is good and will give something good for the people who are coming in and for the people who have striven and fought for it.

Speaker 2: 43:28

And I understand why some people oh, never mind, I can't do that.

Speaker 4: 43:33

You know, don't hold that position. That's totally cool.

Speaker 3: 43:36

Well, the thing is, god bringing those people into the church is a good in itself, and those people that God's preparing their hearts like I mean, we all pray for martyrdom Right. Like, like, really like the suffering, doesn't? The things that we've even suffered through thus up to this point have really not been much, unless you're living in Nigeria, where those poor people are actually being persecuted. What we've experienced in the Western world is really just people making a mockery of Jesus Christ in front of us. What do you throw me on? I never know what he's laughing at. Oh, my god, you just stopped me dead on my track. Um, the, the, um, oh, I okay yeah, you can't put that up.

Speaker 2: 44:26

Yeah, I know it's hilarious.

Speaker 3: 44:31

Good one, tommy oh, you can't put that one on now. I know why you just stopped. You stopped me with tracks, okay, so, man, I just lost my whole train of thought. Yeah, the things that we've dealt with in the West have more just been probably most of our pride in being Catholic. Right, and you see people making light of our faith, people mocking Jesus Christ, people, especially Protestants. See somebody like a liberal pope come in and you're just like man, I want to defend this stuff, but like we look silly trying to defend a faith that the hierarchy isn't even presenting anymore. But the point is that we haven't really endured any real suffering in the West.

Speaker 4: 45:09

It's just been a purification of the sheepfold. It's the the. The naysayers have left long ago, and those who are truly like saying like let's sit down, actually ask myself the question why am I catholic?

Speaker 3: 45:21

they're the ones that, by god's grace, are still here well, I really do think what that radio address that pope benedict gave remember when we read through his radio address like I I think the reaganburg address?

Speaker 3: 45:35

no, that was a good one too, though I'm talking about the radio address from the 60s where he talks about the church. We should do the Regensburg address one day, though we should go through that one day, but no, I'm talking about where he talks about, look, the church is going to lose her social privilege. Like that's the trajectory I see the church in right now. Right, so I do think there's a good chance we might get a good Pope next, but that that is not going to be good for the church in the West in the way most people would think. It is good for the faithful Catholics because we'll at least have a father again, but it's going to mean torment on the church from the world Right, exactly Cause the only way logically that Benedict's if you want to call it a prophecy would come true.

Speaker 4: 46:21

Thank you, house. Thank you very much. But like the only way for that to logically come forward would be is if we do have a good and Holy Pope, to where all of the social privileges in the liberal countries of the West, like the classical liberal countries, go away. So you lose all of the social privileges in the liberal countries of the West, like the classical liberal countries, go away. So you lose all of the church buildings, you lose all of the or you're hyper-regulated, you can't do anything outside of a church building. You can't do any type of public witness or processions, or ministries or shows or whatever. That's the only way for it to make any type of sense. That's why I'm saying it might surprise us.

Speaker 3: 46:58

Well, yeah, maybe we aren't even disagreeing, though I like, yeah, we might not be disagreeing.

Speaker 3: 47:02

My, my point is that, um, I, I don't think getting a good pope means everything's fixed. I think getting a good pope could have the opposite. Yeah, yeah, I agree, like, yeah, like it's gonna. It's going to mean persecution, like I. I've said this, everything's fixed. I think getting a good Pope could have the opposite. Yeah, yeah, I agree, like, like it's going to. It's going to mean persecution, like I.

Speaker 3: 47:19

I've said this before, but the reason the world has been so gentle on us is because you have Francis in there. So they see the church moving in a trajectory more towards their opinion. Right, so it's like Francis is blessing gay, gay unions, whether he is or isn't. Like that's what they see. They see Francis is open to you know, talking about climate change, and we got to do so. They see the church moving in a very specific direction.

Speaker 3: 47:47

If the church does a U-turn, you're going to see major tumult in the church, like it's going to be schism and it's going to. It's going to be chaos and mayhem, and that's what I mean by it would take like a dramatic act of God to show the world that the church is the church. Like. I don't know how that plays out. None of us do. We're just kind of, you know, prognosticating on things that we don't really know. But I don't see it. As you know, a pious the 10th comes in, gets rid of all the, gets rid of all the, all the cardinals who are against this, and it's like, oh, we fixed this and we get him, that's it, the catholic church. But it's just never going to happen that way.

Speaker 4: 48:25

no, yeah, I mean that's what I'm saying like, for instance, if you were to get a pizza balla in there, you would have some situation where it would be. You clearly have some, you'd have some reform, so he'd probably toss TC because that's just universally not liked. You'd see some stuff when it comes to some doctrinal ambiguities being picked up, but you may not see the full-on. Hey, I'm going to take the Swiss Guard and we're going to go room by room inside of every single office in Rome and haul out all the people, et cetera, et cetera. You're not going to see that, but yeah, it's beautiful I don't know how I feel about the warning.

Speaker 3: 48:58

Like I, I do think it's possible because I've had a. I've had, um, an illumination of conscience myself. But the way they describe it like and, and you don't know if that's actually what, what was told to the children, or if it's kind of like the game of telephone, where the message that gets distilled to us three generations later is oh the whole world is just going to be stopped and pilots will be flying in the sky and time will stop and every person on Earth will have an illumination of conscience at the same time.

Speaker 3: 49:32

God's never done anything like that in all of history, but it's possible?

Speaker 4: 49:37

Is Geronimo? Geronimo, it's not approved. It's not approved, that was my question. Yeah, but it's not. I don't know if it's.

Speaker 3: 49:42

I don't know if it's.

Speaker 4: 49:44

I don't know if they've condemned it either.

Speaker 3: 49:47

Okay, I don't think they made a pronouncement.

Speaker 2: 49:49

I think the local bishops have.

Speaker 4: 49:51

The local bishops have condemned it. The local bishops have condemned it. So this is where I'll put my scholastic hat on, because it's the one thing I'm useful for no-transcript context of some type of faith claim. So you have to be really careful about this. This is why I honestly I I pretty much avoid most private revelations um I just think it's funny that adrian is a charismatic.

Speaker 3: 50:38

Okay, so he never parted the Red Sea until he did, that's correct. But God does do things in like typological fashion, right? So no, he didn't part the Red Sea, but he flooded the Earth. So, like the flooding of the Earth was the first baptism, the Red Sea was another form of baptism, and the all of those prefigure actual baptism. And I mean you could go to the scriptures and they actually say that peter says that right. So I I don't. I don't see any kind of prefigurement of a worldwide illumination of conscience like that. I just have never seen anything like that. But like you, said could happen.

Speaker 4: 51:17

That would be really weird on this. So when they say the worldwide illumination, do they mean that like? What do they mean by that?

Speaker 3: 51:23

every individual on earth will have, like time is going to essentially stop and everybody will see themselves the way god sees them. Some people will die of a heart attack because they'll be in shock at what their soul looks like. Some people will, um be in joy, pure joy, because they're in a state of grace and whatever, but like it'll be one final chance for people to repent.

Speaker 4: 51:46

That doesn't, that doesn't seem to compute with the uh, majority opinion of the saints, because it's like if the majority opinion of the saints is most souls don't go to heaven, then logic would, would dictate if you saw God, like if you saw yourself you still have free will, though. You still have free will, but see, here's the thing it's like if you had total illumination of conscience and everybody around you also did.

Speaker 3: 52:06

That's how I yeah. It kind of takes away your free will. Now, nick, okay, gariband out like supernatural finish.

Speaker 4: 52:17

Oh, like supernatural finish. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh no, that was pretty much it. It was just like I just don't see how, like people all want to do mass conversions at that point.

Speaker 3: 52:22

So garibaldal could like supernatural events could have happened there. But that doesn't mean like the that's what I'm trying to say like the message that gets distilled to the masses after that could be very different from what our lady actually said, because there is some very interesting things that happen in Garabedal. There's video of it too, the girls walking backwards up steps. It's pretty interesting.

Speaker 3: 52:44

Walking backwards up steps is Like without I don't know, I can do that barely the girl receiving from an angel. But that doesn't make sense either, right? Shouldn't it be a priest that I don't know?

Speaker 2: 52:58

I know people are very.

Speaker 3: 53:01

I know people get very upset if you're not involved with their apparition.

Speaker 4: 53:07

So I don't know, kind of weird, let's just piss everyone off today.

Speaker 2: 53:11

Garabandal, not true. Medjugorje, not true. Ha, now everyone's pissed.

Speaker 3: 53:17

Pope Francis, what's your verdict? Yeah, I don't know. I would never go as far as to say that. I don't think I would go as far as to say something like that. I just don't like. I think a lot of these things when they make predictions and they don't come true though, like because there were supposed to be some predictions that were made at garibandal, it didn't happen. Same thing with medjugorje. Like there were supposed to be some predictions that were made at garabandal, it didn't happen. Same thing with medjugorje. Like there's supposed to be these signs at the top of the mountain, but like if these things never come to pass, it's like kind of invalidates things and but I don't, I don't know, I don't. I never like studied garabandal enough can I?

Speaker 3: 53:50

you know is what I do know is that the church did give Fatima a thumbs up.

Speaker 4: 53:59

They should give that to Fatima. What I was going to say, I can address that actually at the end of this statement. So what the church does is it says this If it even approves an apparition, you're not required to have a devotion to that apparition. You are supposed to give ass scent of intellect and will to it because it's the church who's approved it. However, if the church hasn't approved it and you've had local bishops disapprove it, then you would be committing potentially a sin against the First Commandment if, of course, you were knowingly and willingly engaging in that.

Speaker 4: 54:30

But when it comes to the question, are the saints or not infallible, I never claim that the saints like just because a saint said it's infallible. What I'm saying is that a majority opinion of the scholastics has said equivocally that most people don't go to heaven, and while that's not infallible or of the faith, because it's not an absolute unanimity it's something that you would at least give a pious deference to, because they are doctors of the church, and we should have that deference toward the doctors of the church and toward those who have been canonized, because, especially in the old canonization process, that means that their theology is sound and safe, and so that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3: 55:05

If the majority are saying this, and our lord seems to indicate this in the new testament you know, we have to take that in consideration yeah, I I think, uh, especially when you get consensus of the fathers, but yeah, like, if I mean, typically you'll, you'll have the saints kind of an agreement about things and that's how you kind of come to a consensus on things. But I don't know, look, I'm not. This wasn't supposed to be a an apparition show like this. This was. This was supposed to just be a reflection on the last 12 years. Right, the last 12 years I've seen tons of conversions, including Nick. I myself I have a real rollercoaster ride through this pontificate because I had the Catholic faith when Francis became Pope and I was driven away by some of the nonsense and I stopped attending the sacraments. I never wasn't Catholic, but I stopped going to mass because I had just like gone through a phase of just. I just can't take it anymore, so I left the sacraments.

Speaker 3: 56:11

Now, in that period, when I left the sacraments, my whole life fell apart, like it was on the verge of divorce that's how bad it got, and not really. But like my me and my wife are at a very difficult part. Uh, you know, partner relationship, so. But then I come back under him because I find tradition. Like if it wasn't for finding the traditional mass, I don't know how I would have coped over the past 12 years and I don't think I would have found tradition without Francis, like I really cause Samorin Pontificum was out long before Francis and I never had attended a Latin mass. It just it was because of Francis that I found tradition. So there are things that happened under this papacy that like they were good, like like you talk about God writing straight with crooked lines and God bringing good from evil. So all the evils that we think came under this past 12 years can work for good. Yeah, and just and like this.

Speaker 4: 57:13

this is like unpopular, but like again, as much of a critic as I am, there are many things that Pope Francis did do good that we just it was not reported.

Speaker 3: 57:23

Yeah, like that's, that's like that's why I said we can't make a member one dimensional.

Speaker 4: 57:28

I'm not saying that, I'm not justifying literally anything. He said I've spent, I've spent. I can get plenty of examples, but I'm just saying that like we always have to recognize that it's like every single person at least does do some good.

Speaker 3: 57:38

Yes, and like when Francis would say things like going to getting an abortion is like hiring a hitman. Yes, he said some very good things right.

Speaker 2: 57:49

But when somebody. But then he does something against the doctor, dr Joyner.

Speaker 3: 57:53

But when, when somebody's shifting things, so like him throwing the occasional bone, it's it's like well, I don't know man, I'm worried about where, where the papacy stands in a lot of our minds.

Speaker 3: 58:10

Like I've seen I'll even say this Like I saw how Eric Sammons runs crisis magazine and he was a papal critic for a while and then he decided he was no longer going to do that, so he made an announcement and eric stopped doing that. Right, and then the day francis dies, eric comes back out and he's swinging at Francis again. And then I watched Eric's show today and he's he was like saying how one of the good things that came from Francis is Catholics kind of put the papacy back in its proper order, because after Vatican one there was a spirit of Vatican one where hyper-papalism came a little too crazy. But I don't know, man, I think if you have a good Pope, like, there's nothing wrong with hyper-papalism, it's it's when you're, when you're dealing with leftist revolutionaries, it's like I don't, I don't know, this is crazy yeah, I mean, there's a zillion and one theories.

Speaker 4: 59:06

That's why, like, what I'm afraid of is, let's say, we were to, just for sake of analogy, get cardinal sarah in there.

Speaker 4: 59:13

Right, get cardinal sarah in there, and it's just amazing and all that.

Speaker 4: 59:17

I'm afraid that because of, like, the, the damage that again, like rightly we can say pope francis did to the image of the papacy amongst the faithful, that there are going to always be catholics who just have no reverence of even just speech for the office, like that's what I'm trying to do tonight, like, I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to explain away what he's done, I'm not trying to be, yeah, I don't want to lose reverence for the office exactly because it's like, like, because here's the thing is, it's like I could damn myself to hell by like dragging in the mud the institution which christ, like set up to save me.

Speaker 4: 59:51

On the other end of it, I don't do a service to people by trying to explain bad things away, and so it's like I have to be like, you know, this is a situation where, whomever is next, you know, you could be right, anthony. It's like it could be a really bad situation. We pray not, but like, hopefully, people put their like hopefully, the big thing that we should all got out of this and you got out of of this because you went through this was we have to prioritize our spiritual life, because you left and then it was the witness of your son that brought you back, and the witness of the TLM changed your life.

Speaker 3: 1:00:28

Yeah, and it also showed me how stable my life is with the sacraments, like it. Like the instability of living a non-liturgical life is what kind of threw me into chaos, and then, coming back to the sacraments, brought this stability to my life. Look all the things I'm saying, even about the past 12 years and about Francis. I went to Italy in December and and sat for a papal audience. There was still something like wow, people already like that's the, that's the roman pontiff, you know what I mean? There was still something about that. That was just, it was just pretty amazing just to be there, right.

Speaker 4: 1:01:12

So, yeah, I don't want to lose reverence for the office, um because I like I want to eventually get back to the point where and it's like, obviously you know pope francis wouldn't have wanted this, but it's like, yeah, I want to get back to the point where it's like you know the, the people come into the room and he's being carried around on a litter, obviously like with the, with the miter on you know the papal crown, and then you know the, the bishops, they come and kiss the slippers, like that might seem over the top, but it's like if he is the, like the successor of St Peter, the vicar of Christ on earth, and he owns that and and and has that responsibility both interiorly and exteriorly, then it's like all of us will be lining up hopefully to do that. But then you'll of course have the people, because you know they've been so scandalized that you know are just going to sit back and commit sins against the eighth commandment yeah, I don't.

Speaker 3: 1:02:02

I think okay, so the reason I like pizza ball uh is the name, which is kind of cool yeah, but it is because I don't think we get anywhere with any Pope that is unwilling to discuss the events of world war two. Yeah, oh, by the way, I don't see it happening.

Speaker 4: 1:02:23

Yeah, yeah, no, and it's like what, like you got, you guys did a phenomenal show with Christian. I think I totally just forgot, but I was going to message you both and like your guys's show with Christian, I think, was one of the best shows you guys have ever done. It was really really well. And it's one of those conversations where I was curious. After the show I went and looked up. The question was something like what is um by age, demographic and party affiliation, the support for the state of israel? And I found this. I think it was a p, a pew research poll, it was a gallup poll and it was even amongst people on the right wing, right Between 18 and 49, over 50% is against the state of Israel. Right All the left wings were, you know, like way out, like 80, 90%. The only demographic in the United States that is still pro-Israel right is if you're conservative and over the age of 60. That's the only group left.

Speaker 3: 1:03:17

Yeah, but it's not just about support for Israel, though.

Speaker 4: 1:03:20

It's so I agree that it is.

Speaker 3: 1:03:23

This is. This is a fundamental problem that it has. It has been destructive in our liturgy. It has been destructive in the way we approach ecumenism. All of this comes down to that, like all the things that we've been complaining about, come down to that issue. Like they just do and I don't see anybody in, even the guys that we like I don't see any of them talking about this issue. I just don't, and I don't think you can, I don't think you can fix what's wrong unless you address that issue, because and it has to be done with charity, it has to be done with love. Yeah, I don't know how that happens, because I just see all men who are afraid to even have the conversation.

Speaker 4: 1:04:09

It's a ball. I might have it, though, but he also seen.

Speaker 3: 1:04:12

He's been on the ground there and he's seen it Exactly.

Speaker 4: 1:04:14

But to Rob's point in the beginning, if he was, he might have a short pontificate, because he's openly said that the state shouldn't exist.

Speaker 3: 1:04:24

Where's the Palestinian flag around his neck?

Speaker 4: 1:04:26

Yeah, exactly. So I'm like he. He would be the closest, but he might not live that long.

Speaker 3: 1:04:36

Yeah, but like even the fact that we would say something like that's like I don't know man, I don't know how this um look, this is, this is. I know you guys think I'm blackpilling, but this whole, all of this is all connected to me like it's just. I see all these things kind of just coming together and I, I think that it's.

Speaker 4: 1:04:51

I don't, I don't see any way around it the abomination of desolation will be as you'll walk into the Vatican and no longer will be the Eucharist. It'll be a bunch of gefalte fish on the altar. What the heck is going on?

Speaker 3: 1:05:04

Now do you want to go through some of the cardinals?

Speaker 2: 1:05:08

No no.

Speaker 3: 1:05:11

Hey, you know what I saw that was interesting Pope Francis' last will and testament Talking about where he wants his body to be entombed and stuff. So he writes in the name of the most holy Trinity amen. As I sense the approaching twilight of my earthly life, and with firm hope and eternal life, I wish to set out my final wishes solely regarding the place of my burial. Regarding the place of my burial Throughout my life and during my ministry as a priest and bishop, I have always entrusted myself to the mother of our Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary. For this reason, I ask that my mortal remains rest, awaiting the day of the resurrection, in the papal basilica of St Mary Major. He kind of goes through all right, so I wish my final earthly journey to end precisely in this ancient Marian sanctuary, where I would always stop to pray at the beginning and end of every apostolic journey, confidently entrusting my intentions to the Immaculate Mother and giving thanks for her gentle and maternal care.

Speaker 3: 1:06:06

Like I feel, like this whole papacy, the one thing that was majorly missing was this devotion to Our Lady, like I remember John Paul II had this like really deep devotion to Our Lady. I remember John Paul II had this really deep devotion to Our Lady Benedict too, but under Francis it was just always about reaching out to other things and I feel like if he would have focused more on that. Maybe it's because we're stuck in our echo chamber where we only hear the controversial stuff and I wasn't following what he was saying every single day and stuff. Maybe that's what it is, but the stuff that hits the, the, the mainstream, is the stuff that actually matters, because that's what the world is absorbing, in my opinion yeah, no, I see what you're saying.

Speaker 4: 1:06:49

Well, that that's partially why, like I, I make some of our audience mad, because it's like I'm trying to think outside the bubble sometimes, because I I want to like pursue truth. I do. I don't remember any. He might have an encyclical on. I don't remember any encyclicals, but I do remember a few times hearing some sermons of his where he talked just some of those beautiful words about our lady. I do remember some of those. Um, I do remember, uh, some of the, the processions that he had, but again, I wasn't Catholic under Benedict. I wasn't really around for most of JP too, obviously. So it's not a ton to compare it to, I guess, for me oh man, you guys in the audience, have anything you guys want us to address?

Speaker 4: 1:07:34

I had one question that was directed for me and I can just answer it like in 10 seconds. It was just a person who asked me uh, nick, what is your thoughts about ud university of dallas I'm going to be going to visit soon. It's pretty cool school. There's a lot of cool dominican teachers, a lot of cool professors there. You're wanting to learn tomistic theology? Um, fairly good. I would just say one note, which would be if you do go up there and study theology, always consult the commentators of St Thomas' Summa and don't fall into the era of being a Tomesian where you just have the Summa in yourself and think you know everything.

Speaker 3: 1:08:07

Oh, there was one other thing at the Easter Vigil man. Why didn't I freaking save it, oh man? So when you go to the Easter Vigil man, why didn't I freaking save it, oh man? So when you go to the Easter Vigil, they take you through the high points of salvation history. So you start in Genesis and then you go into the Exodus and there's a point where Moses is on his deathbed and Joshua is about to take the Israelites into the problem. They're not even Israelites yet yet, right?

Speaker 4: 1:08:38

you could call the children of israel, because israel's jacob.

Speaker 3: 1:08:41

So yeah, okay, so they're there, joshua's gonna take them in and moses is giving his last will and testament and he's just so freaking frustrated with them. He's like you people, I know your heart of heart. If you're doing this while I'm still here, how much more?

Speaker 3: 1:08:57

when I'm gone, write this down, because I know you stubborn bastards are not gonna do it, and it's like yeah man, I was just like as as they were reading through these readings, I was just looking up at the cross and I'm just like. They are such a stubborn people, lord you really. Your people are really stubborn and they always were stubborn, and it is just. There's something about when somebody is hardened of heart and their inability to see their own sin right. So when you're going, when you have John the Baptist is baptizing and everyone's coming to get baptized this is the reason why you can't see the kingdom unless you're born of water and spirit, because the people that come to get baptized are repenting of their sins. So there's something in them that they have a softness in their heart. They're repenting of their sins, but those who didn't get baptized are like what's going on here and they have a hardness of heart and they can't actually see the kingdom because they won't acknowledge that they are not there, that they're sinful, right, they think they're righteous, and it's just something that persists until this day. And you see it in all the conversations that are going on about this question of Israel and it's like there's not an ounce of self-reflection of what is actually happening over in the Middle East, over there. There's not an ounce of self-reflection where it's like all right, people are not liking what we're doing. Maybe we should change up a little bit. None of that. It's just double down, double down on the propaganda.

Speaker 3: 1:10:37

All of it is because there's this hardness of heart that comes over people when they're unwilling to see that they might be guilty of something. It's not just Jews, it's all people. When people are stubborn and they have I've been having these arguments with one of my siblings because they they've. They've left the sacraments and they read the Bible Like they're basically Protestant at this point, you know, like they still think they're Catholic but they're essentially Protestant. And it's like anytime I try to say anything to this person, they just shut down and they won't even hear it because they don't like what they're hearing, because it's a bit convicting in in the way they're living their life.

Speaker 4: 1:11:20

Yeah, no, I agree, it's. Um, you can rightly affirm both truths. Like I, I got in trouble this week because I was in. I was in this chat and I was talking about how. You know it's good that we're like you wouldn't have even had five years ago Father Maudsley going on and talking about differences between pre-55, good Friday and 62 and 69, et cetera, and I mentioned, though, at the end of this conversation. I said one thing, though I think we should be careful about is we're in Holy Week.

Speaker 4: 1:11:50

It's good to talk about this stuff for theology, history, but we shouldn't become so obsessed with it where we forget also at the same time, and it is our sins that we should be meditating upon this week. You know, just doing kind of a pious reflection and, uh, the guy got like so mad. But it was a good reminder because it's like we um, we live in a society where, let's just be honest, our lord talks about in john 3. It's like they hate the light and they don't come to the light because they see their deeds are evil. So it's like those people in the time of christ right, aside from the elect right, they did not go to christ, they hated christ because he was calling out their evil deeds, and that can be the same for us.

Speaker 4: 1:12:32

Like the saint introduced missile has this really good reflection where it says when you look at all the people who killed Christ, we can find all the major sins. It's like Judas he was a covetous person. That's what St Thomas Aquinas says. Through covetousness, he betrayed our Lord. Herod was a lustful fiend, right, and he handed him over to the people. Pilate was weak and prideful right. It's, and prideful right. It's like all of us can do all of these things. Um, so you can rightly affirm there is this historical, not just in in the first century, but continuing on enmity between older and younger brother, and at the same time affirm, yeah, my sins are an issue that put our lord upon the cross and like, lord, help me not to be a reprobate. You, you know where my heart gets hardened.

Speaker 3: 1:13:15

Yeah, no, it's yeah. It just is interesting that these these conversations are happening now where, like we never would have heard them before. It's just I don't know if they're. They're going to be front and center soon, I think. So All right. So we all are going to be talking quite a bit going forward, because we have a conclave coming up like this is going to be pretty nuts. So Wednesday I am going on Joe McLean in the morning, then I have three shows on this channel. So keep, keep your eyes open on Wednesday. Wednesday, there will be a lot of streaming going on. I don't think we're going to do a members only show this week. We're going to see how the news plays out of something big happens. We'll jump on and we're just going to play it by ear and I think that's it. Rob, you got any final thoughts? You've been pretty quiet.

Speaker 2: 1:14:15

Nope.

Speaker 3: 1:14:18

All good, yeah, all right guys. So this was an interesting day and we'll see how things play out over the course of the next couple weeks. So how long is it before they call the actual conclave?

Speaker 2: 1:14:37

It has to be at least nine days, but probably longer.

Speaker 4: 1:14:40

Nine days of mourning and then they have 15 days to get there, if memory's right. I think it's like 15 days to get there and then they vote. It's going to be three weeks. When is the funeral?

Speaker 2: 1:14:56

It has to wait nine days. Yeah, it's at 20, it's going to be like three weeks.

Speaker 4: 1:14:57

When is the funeral has to wait nine days. Yeah, it's at the end of the nine-day period.

Speaker 3: 1:15:00

So there's a nine-day morning period? Yeah, then they have what? A one-day funeral, three-day funeral, like how does that go?

Speaker 4: 1:15:08

Probably it will be like one official day of funeral and then there'll probably be before it days where the faithful can come in and pay their respect before before him. So but watch, I guarantee you guys, it's probably gonna be a much better funeral. Wait a minute.

Speaker 3: 1:15:22

Exclusive cardinal zen.

Speaker 3: 1:15:24

Cardinal joseph zen of hong kong is challenging the decision communicated to the cardinals in a letter earlier today to hold the first so I didn't see this to hold the first meeting of the general congregations of the College of Cardinals tomorrow morning at 9 am in the Vatican. His short statement just sent to me for immediate release states Cardinal Zen would like to know why the first session of the general congregations has to start so early. How are the old men from the periphery supposed to arrive on time? There is the kind word in the letter reminding them that they are not obliged to attend, but do they have the right to do so, yes or no? So basically, they're calling a meeting and not giving time to all the other people to get there?

Speaker 2: 1:16:09

Well, not really, because nothing can really be done in the vatican right now without the college of cardinals. So this this is more about continual governance of the vatican than it is about the, the conclave you don't think it's about conversations to start I mean, maybe it very well could be. I mean, most, most of these cardinals haven't met the last time the full uh, last time the full college met was in 2015 or something like that.

Speaker 3: 1:16:42

That is a really weird thing that Francis did. He stopped allowing the. They're supposed to know each other so that they know who the next cardinal they want to elect is, and there's been like this wall of silence up. So, todd, you think these conversations have already happened. Do we think the next conclave is already like? Because is there another, another, yeah is there a sunk on the mafia?

Speaker 2: 1:17:08

I don't think there was ever, I don't think they ever stopped?

Speaker 3: 1:17:12

is the cia doing what they can to manipulate things right now, like I think? What I think you'll see this time that we didn't see in times past is guys like cardinals and speaking up yeah, way more scrutiny scrutiny with the cardinals, scrutiny with the media, scrutiny with people like us dude, I don't know, this could get crazy yeah, we could.

Speaker 4: 1:17:34

We could honestly get some like pretty laughable off-the-wall stuff come out.

Speaker 3: 1:17:41

This could get crazy. It could end up not. There could be a very long interregnum. They definitely have a group chat.

Speaker 2: 1:17:48

Think of all the different group chats out there.

Speaker 4: 1:17:51

They all speak in Latin because they're just like the Holy Father won't know.

Speaker 3: 1:17:55

Maybe they'll add a leftist reporter in on their telegram chat, like the trump administration did. Oh no, tommy have a little material we don't have to jump off yet if you guys want us to keep going. I don't know. Rob's falling asleep on me. Nick's afraid to say anything. Controversial now. So true, um, let's see I'll. I'll find some stuff.

Speaker 4: 1:18:31

I was like I can tell you. I can tell you some cool. This is the kind of stuff.

Speaker 3: 1:18:35

This is the kind of stuff that drives me all right, go ahead, nick, you can go then you go for it.

Speaker 4: 1:18:39

Go for it. You're passionate about something? Go for it.

Speaker 3: 1:18:40

So Patrick, Neve or Neve, whatever his name is, Pope Francis was a holy man.

Speaker 2: 1:18:45

Oh, I could not stand that tweet.

Speaker 3: 1:18:47

You can't deny it Some of his decisions were imprudent. But holiness is not equal to prudence.

Speaker 2: 1:18:59

And even then, who am I to judge decisions?

Speaker 3: 1:19:01

god gave me. Like this is the kind of the same tweet. He says you can't judge your soul, oh, but he's holy for sure. Um, this is what, like, we would always talk about, where it's like well, it was just imprudent. Well, it was just imprudent. Well, it was just imprudent. Like at a certain point, you saying every single thing the pope does being imprudent, like you're kind of calling them retarded, like that's not well either Imprudence is sinful, that's imprudent. Yeah, my wife just gave me a look.

Speaker 4: 1:19:27

Imprudence is generally sinful, right, I mean, imprudence is a virtue. That line doesn't really work for me. But then also it comes back to that line where it's like fool me once, shame on you know. Fool me one, shame on me. Or fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. So it's like if you continue to see a lot of these repeated actions this is why you saw a lot of people like salmons, who in the beginning were like yeah, I'm gonna try to defend him, you know, give him some time to like adjust to the office of the papacy, you know, maybe just doesn't know how to speak properly in front of that the world. And then nine years later, 10 years later, 12 years later, you're like, okay, well, I don't know, guys, just I don't nick, I'm not even, I'm just I miss the old nick.

Speaker 2: 1:20:11

I miss the old nick I don't this.

Speaker 3: 1:20:13

This the old nick. I miss the old nick. Got a little fire to him. No, no, like I am passionate about it. But see here's the. I miss the old.

Speaker 4: 1:20:18

Nick, I had a little fire to him. No, no, no, like I am passionate about it, but see, here's the thing. Like the old Nick, the old Nick had so many sinful problems with him that none of you need to know. It's between me, god and the confessor. It'll be revealed on the last day and you'll be able to see what I'm talking about. But, um, but like.

Speaker 2: 1:20:36

I'll be too busy going through Anthony's list on that, don't worry, but I'm just like.

Speaker 4: 1:20:45

Like, as I said before, I have not changed any of my views, but what I am doing is I'm wanting to listen to our Lord, because my salvation is what I am made for I'm made to be in union with Christ, and so maybe I don't come on here and I'm like spitting fire and I'm angry.

Speaker 3: 1:20:57

I'm just teasing you, by the way. No, no, no.

Speaker 4: 1:21:00

You may be teasing, but it's like. I don't know if other people are, but it's like. You know, I want to be saved.

Speaker 3: 1:21:05

Like I want to be immune to crime. A lot of people say you need to be better.

Speaker 2: 1:21:09

Wait, what are you doing? Anthony's obsession with the world ending is like a midlife crisis, but instead of a, a corvette, he's buying three days of darkness prep kit that's funny.

Speaker 3: 1:21:19

Let me tell you something. I bought a whole like. I did buy like a whole bunch of beeswax candles and I had them blessed by a priest. My wife just lit them as if they were just normal candles and I I'm like, where are the?

Speaker 2: 1:21:32

last words, nicole. This is your fault.

Speaker 3: 1:21:35

Yeah, no, I'm like where are all the beeswax candles? She goes, I don't know, I just lit them. No, I'm like where are all the beeswax candles? She goes, I don't know, I just lit them, I like them. I'm like, nicole, you can't, you're like they're not even scented. Why would you do that? No, but, rob, if you knew, we went to like this. We went to this parish and the priest was like blessing everybody's stuff, like he like had a very specific thing after, after mass. It was like I'm gonna bless everybody's stuff now when you go oh, that's, we have to talk about this connected too. So when you go to one of these things, what you get is the, the, the women like push you out of the way to get their stuff. Yeah, and it's literally everything they have, every single thing they have, and they will push you out of the way because they want their stuff blessed and they don't give a crap if anybody else gets anything blessed.

Speaker 2: 1:22:17

It's also how they operate in the confession line.

Speaker 3: 1:22:20

This is a problem.

Speaker 4: 1:22:22

I had a lady come up to me this week and she was a sweet old lady and she was just like do you want to be a priest? I was like I don't want to counsel old ladies in the confessional every single day for hours, because if it was just straight up giving moral theology, okay that's cool, but that's not what it is. So I say this in love to all the ladies out there Be short, quick and specific and then move on.

Speaker 3: 1:22:46

My wife constantly insists on eating our emergency food for fun. Wives are so funny. So, listen, we go to the vigil on Saturday and there's. Oh man, I got to be careful because I don't know who watches the show, but dude, there's there were an hour 23 minutes of the militant women sit on the ends of the of the aisle, which is fine.

Speaker 3: 1:23:08

I get people want to sit on the ends of the aisle. They don't let you in and they give you dirty looks if you want to get and it's like you think you're taking the entire aisle. Like what I don't understand and like there was. There was this. There was a woman who very easily, like there's, I had to sit separate me and my wife and sit separate from my daughters because this one woman was so mad that me and my wife had to get in.

Speaker 2: 1:23:32

But she could have just taken the row in front of her yeah, those women definitely turned off the video when, when you said that's true you.

Speaker 3: 1:23:39

You'd be surprised, dude, when I leave holy innocence. A lot of times it's like old, older women that come up to me. They're like I watch your show. One one of them said to my wife um, she goes, uh, oh, you don't look anything like I expected. And my wife was like what, what I believe in? Saint lidwin?

Speaker 2: 1:23:55

lidwina, lidwina.

Speaker 3: 1:23:56

Let's put it on the screen right super I believe saint lidwina and the passion of the church is an appropriate metaphor for the juncture the church is living through.

Speaker 3: 1:24:15

I don't know that so saint ledwina is the patron saint for those who suffer chronic pain oh gotcha so this family member I was telling you about earlier, they're going to answer why he was african, like it. Well, I said to my wife I go, I go, I go. She probably thought, like I had, like some you know, guinea brat as a wife, something like a marissa tobe type.

Speaker 2: 1:24:35

You know my wife's like, oh so I'm not marissa tomei there's nothing you, my wife's like, oh so I'm not Marissa Tomei.

Speaker 3: 1:24:43

There's nothing you could have said there, that would have been good. So, oh wait, what was I just going to say? Oh, with with one of my siblings, the, we were watching the Passion together and, like the, the beginning where the devil is, like, you know, talking to Christ in the garden, she's like this isn't in the Bible, not like exactly like that. I'm like these are the visions of seeing, seeing, seeing a blessed and Catherine Emmerich, and I'm trying to explain it and and well, this isn't in the Bible. I'm like, oh, my gosh, all right, it's not in the bible, all right, like it just gets. It gets very, very well you should.

Speaker 2: 1:25:25

You should have been like uh, do you think jesus was nailed to the cross? Yes, well, that's not in the bible, so I guess, well, that's what I said I I actually did.

Speaker 3: 1:25:32

We had that conversation where I was like well, if you actually go through the gospels, the like the, the crucifixion isn't actually very detailed. No, not at all. Like it really just says he went to the pillar, was scourged and then he was crucified, like I mean, obviously more detailed than that, but it's not like what you see in the passion is blessed and catharine emmick's.

Speaker 2: 1:25:52

Not something they needed to be uh taught no, because they all knew what crucifixion was.

Speaker 3: 1:26:01

Yeah, so like you wanted to describe it in as little detail as possible because it was such a humiliating thing in itself like to to even look upon somebody who was crucified. You'd be considered defiled, you know so you know it's gonna be interesting.

Speaker 4: 1:26:16

I mean this. I've been thinking about this recently. Um, I haven't seen it forever, but I was. I was sent this clip by a friend of mine of um the chosen's like latest season, where christ is cleansing the temple with like the whip and stuff, and I watched it and I was like fairly shocked at like I'd be, especially nowadays. I'm like wow, yeah, this. This just would go over straight quote-unquote anti-semitism by its hyper broad definition nowadays, which which was this. This was like the, yeah, the chosen, like I mean they have I was actually pretty surprised.

Speaker 3: 1:26:53

Chosen nick is a step too far, I'm not not sorry wait, so you went and saw it in the movie theater no, no, no.

Speaker 4: 1:27:02

I was sent a clip from this by a friend. Oh, I was sent a clip on through youtube and um and they just said what's your thoughts? Because I have. I haven't seen it since like three years ago, whatever, and I was like dang, I'm actually kind of surprised. They like went this far with it and I thought, hmm, are they gonna, are they gonna do the um, let his blood be upon us and upon our children that you think they're gonna?

Speaker 2: 1:27:24

dare do that. Well, well, well left.

Speaker 3: 1:27:28

He left it in verb verbally but took the subtitles out uh, that's right.

Speaker 2: 1:27:33

Yeah, did I thought I heard that he didn't do that, that whoever did the subtitles did that without his knowledge.

Speaker 3: 1:27:40

Oh, I didn't know. I thought from pressure groups they took it out. I could be wrong, obviously.

Speaker 2: 1:27:45

And I could be wrong too. I don't know.

Speaker 3: 1:27:47

Verbally, it's in there. Let his blood be upon us and upon our children is in there verbally, but they took it out in the subtitles. Now, with the Chosen, we had played clips comparing the Chosen Jesus of Nazareth and the Gospel of John. Just showing how Jesus interacts with the Pharisees in the Chosen, and it's one of my least, it's like one of the things I hate the most about the show is how his interactions with theisees are just appalling you know I no, I agree this.

Speaker 4: 1:28:19

Why? This is why this clip kind of was surprising to me, because like he looks like he's a like. So there's like the high priest. He comes out in this scene. He like comes out of the temple. Christ is like pissed, he's like furious. You see the whip in his hand. He looks like he's straight up. He like he like whips at one of the pharisees, like just straight up whips at one of the phar, just straight up whips at one of the Pharisees, at the high priest. They make the guy run back in because it looks like Christ is about to start attacking the high priest. I was like dang, they're kind of.

Speaker 1: 1:28:47

They're going off here.

Speaker 2: 1:28:49

So I just lost my train of thought, I did show Maddie Well, so Maddie made it halfway through the passion.

Speaker 3: 1:28:59

Oh, that's okay. So here's the thing. That's what we forgot to talk about when we had this conversation. Bachelor, um, how did he do? We're going through half of it.

Speaker 2: 1:29:06

It was a little too much room so we, we made it through the um the scourging of the pillar actually we made it through the crowning with thorns, which was right after that, of course. Um, and he, he's like, he's like at that point, he's like it's. He just said I need a break, basically, yeah, but I knew I had made the right decision when so, right before the scourging, he wanted to be warned when things were going to get bad, right.

Speaker 2: 1:29:30

So we paused it before the scourging and told him it was, it was about to get pretty violent, um kind of described him what was about to happen and you, um kind of described to him what was about to happen. And you know, I told him, like you know, I told him, when I see this, when I watch this scene, or when I meditate on the scourging, you know I I meditate how each, each one of like the, the strikes, is like my sin doing that to Jesus. And he started crying at that point, like even before seeing the scourging, and it's like this was a good decision, you know, because watching that, then he you could tell like it really hit home with him, you know what to him being naughty or committing a sin, what that really is.

Speaker 3: 1:30:17

So my older daughter still can't watch it. My younger daughter can. My older daughter still cannot watch it. She's just like daddy, please don't make me watch it Like she just has. No, she's just not capable of watching that level of violence. Like she just like she doesn't. If somebody has a bloody nose, she freaks out Like she just is incapable, for example. Like she just is incapable. She's so sensitive.

Speaker 3: 1:30:44

Now, now, what? What I was, what I did kind of want to talk about is, um, because I saw, uh, I forgot who posted it, but they were talking about how, even when they watch like regular movies, like when you watched, um, what was the show? Uh, about the mormons rob, uh, american primeval, american, primeval, right like when you're watching a massacre like that as a spectator, it's, it desensitizes you somehow, like it's like because you you made the point you're like well, most of human history people were exposed to violence like this, you know, and it's like. But I think it's different when, when you're seeing it in real life and then when you're seeing it on a screen as a spectator, like it kind of desensitizes you and I don't know it. I mean, I still personally love watching the passion, because I always find something new in it, like this time watching it or this time around watching it it was peter's denial and like I really just put myself in peter's shoes because there's man.

Speaker 3: 1:31:43

I remember like early on in my conversion going out after a christmas party with a bunch of guys and they were making fun of me for going to church and I was like no no it's not that big, like I don't really go like and I denied my faith when I was younger I was in like my 20s and I just freaking remember, like how easily you cave to the pressure and memetic desire around you. So like that was what hit me this time. But the, the, the raw violence of that movie, I think some people are just too sensitive to handle it yeah, I think so too it's.

Speaker 4: 1:32:22

it's it's the greatest movie about the life of christ. Of course by part, because and you know, the thing is is it's like we don't even understand, like the passion is a small, it is a very slight reflection of what was going on because, like St Thomas talks about the internal passion that Christ had was so much greater than the physical wounds, and it's like we can't see that obviously in a movie screen. I remember the last time I watched the passion. It was beautiful.

Speaker 4: 1:32:52

There was uh, people know a little bit of my story, but there's four of us who are all converting to the church together, four of us guys, and we watched the Passion the night before our first confessions and we intentionally did this with examinations of conscience because we wanted to see like, okay, like we all, all our lives were just like, yeah, you know you pray this prayer and you're good to go.

Speaker 4: 1:33:17

You know, like you're, you never think about Christ's death, aside from just kind of like when it's mentioned on Easter. But then when you're seeing these questions, it's like have you thought impurely? Have you used your you know? Have you lied, have you been prideful? You know, you just go through those lists and stuff. And then you're looking at what your sin did and if're like us, where it's like, wow, you know, we're 21, 22, 23 it's like, wow, there's 20 years of my life where I was just doing this no remorse, and like, look at what christ did regardless, like he did this for me regardless of whether or not I repented. That's the beautiful thing. Um, so yeah, it is just objectively the best movie.

Speaker 3: 1:33:58

Yeah, but I think Molly's right, like you can watch, you can overwatch it and get desensitized. So like I do, like that, I only watch it that once a year, once a year, watch it once a year and it's like a liturgical thing that we're doing and we really try to, you know, go deep into it. Now my, now my older daughter she's tried the last year, she just can't do it. I think next year after the Good Friday Liturgy we're going to maybe go try to see a Passion Play person. So like I really do think that whole conversation is very each person is different in how they can handle it. I think all men should be able to handle it. Yeah, I do think you have to be a little bit cautious with some girls who are a little too sensitive well, I was like somebody's kid's

Speaker 4: 1:34:54

autistic or something obviously I like how, rob uh, you did it with your kid, like how you just like stopped and you explained it. You were very gentle, oh yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2: 1:35:03

So we only watched half of it, but it took us two and a half hours to get through half, because how much I was pausing and like explaining you know, maddie's just learning how to read english, so subtitles are a little hard for him. Obviously.

Speaker 4: 1:35:16

Yeah, but uh foreign language well I was gonna say that's good because I, like the first time I watched the passion I think I was like five and I stumbled into it. How the context was. I was in bible, like bible sunday school at my old evangelical church and they were playing some clips from. They weren't playing the whole thing, but just from clips of it to kind of like show the reality of what christ did, and I remember it scarred me. I still remember it in my, in my mind and I was just like what is this? It was just so scary, like what is what is happening to this guy? You know, it's like I knew that christ died for my sins even at that age. But it's like it's different when you're five years old saying this and saying what, what is going on to this guy. You know it's not just an image up on a wall.

Speaker 3: 1:35:59

Um, yeah, yeah, I think it's like, um, yeah, I think it should stay as a once a year thing, though, like I, I think you can overwatch it and stuff like that. So, um, all right. So look, wednesday's gonna be jam-packed, um, I know it's. It's difficult for some people, but, but let's force ourselves to pray for Francis. I'm not going to sit here and feel pietistic and pretend it's easy. It's going to be difficult for a lot of us. If you're being honest, we've had a very rough 12 years under this pontificate. But try to look at how God has brought good through some of the pain that we've gone through, good through some of the pain that we've gone through, and remember that none of this pain has been physical chastisements yet, and I do think that is on the horizon. I think we're in store for some stuff. I know you guys are super optimistic. I think we're getting the most Holy Pope ever next and the world's going to be rainbows and Sour Patch Kids falling from the sky M&M's, m&m's, m&m's. I have a safe that kind of proves.

Speaker 4: 1:37:05

I don't believe that I'm pretty sure you own more guns than me now, Rob.

Speaker 3: 1:37:12

And to all the new Catholics who came into the church. I don't know how many are actually watching this show, but to you Catholics who just came in this Easter, you guys will never forget this easter man. You came in, you, you get confirmed in the church, you receive communion for that first time and the next day the pope dies. You're getting a conclave. Like you're getting all of catholicism jammed into your one year of ocia or whatever it is like. You guys get the full gamut. Stick around, guys. It's gonna get fun. This is what it means to be catholic. So this is. This is my, my. I wonder if we could get somebody that remembers the election of john paul ii who, like they, would have to be young I mean old like they would have had to have been young when that kale, I would think so john paul was elected in 79, 78, 79 somewhere, so he would have probably been around 10.

Speaker 3: 1:38:10

I'm gonna ask him if he, if he remembers it, yeah, he might. Hey, that's the other thing. Uh, lofton, uh and ibarra made amends.

Speaker 2: 1:38:20

Yeah, if anyone's wondering. So Eric asked us to take some videos down, so we did, of course.

Speaker 3: 1:38:25

Yeah, I heard they're getting the band back together, like there's going to be. It's going to be like Elijah, you know Fawaz's brother. It's going to be Fawaz, elijah, yazzie, william, albrecht, lofton and Eric. I think they're all going to get together, I mean you know.

Speaker 2: 1:38:43

No offense to Lofton, but I really hope getting the band back together is just figurative.

Speaker 3: 1:38:49

Well, the thing is, you know, I don't think that'll ever happen with us, but there is something good about making peace during Holy Week.

Speaker 2: 1:39:00

Well, now they won't have to fight about Francis.

Speaker 3: 1:39:02

Well, there you go. Maybe it was their prayers, I know.

Speaker 2: 1:39:08

Maybe Anthony is right.

Speaker 3: 1:39:12

I learned about the passion this Lent. Christ and the gospel sang to the garden. These were required Psalms of Thanksgiving, including 115, a hymn to the Father and Mary about taking up the chalice. I don't know if I knew that Christ in the gospel sang in the garden. These were required Psalms of Thanksgiving.

Speaker 4: 1:39:33

I don't know that number one, but there is the passage I think it's in St John, where it talks about, and then they sung a hymn or a psalm and the psalm is psalm 117, I think it is. Um, and it's really cool because the psalm ends with those passages about how the stone right, which has now become the head of the corner, will be a stumbling block, and so basically what it is is they're singing this psalm saying that the messiah will be a stumbling block to the jews as they're leaving the last supper going into the garden.

Speaker 3: 1:40:04

it's pretty epic um, yeah, and every. I have seen the oh so and father jason chiron had reached out to me following that episode. With christian I had a a good like half hour conversation with him and it was a good conversation. Like we still clearly are apart on issues, but it was still a very charitable conversation and at the end of it we both agreed to just ask our lady to heal any wounds in the church. So I think I mean you know the, the Pope, just oh, I was supposed to go on a Protestant show on Wednesday. I'm going to have to reschedule that because we got too much going on. So I'll have to reschedule that. But there is a Protestant show that reached out to me and they want to discuss the Jewish question. No-transcript, Rob, take us out, brother, Thank you.