Father Jason Charron Interview with Matt Fradd Causes Backlash?

What happens when Catholic moral theology collides with contemporary political narratives? This deep dive explores the troubling emergence of the term "woke right" in Catholic discourse and uncovers its origins with James Lindsay, an atheist intellectual whose framework fundamentally contradicts authentic Catholic teaching.

We carefully examine how traditional Catholic positions on just war theory apply to current conflicts, particularly regarding Israel-Gaza. St. Thomas Aquinas provided clear criteria for evaluating conflicts - proper authority, just cause, and right intention - that Catholics have used for centuries. Yet today, those applying these same principles find themselves labeled with politically charged terms designed to shut down conversation.

The discussion also tackles the problematic concept of "Judeo-Christian values," revealing how this relatively recent terminology obscures significant theological differences between traditions. Throughout history, these faiths understood themselves as having fundamentally different moral frameworks, particularly regarding concepts like sins of the heart and economic practices.

Perhaps most concerning is how accusations of moral cowardice are leveled against those questioning prevailing narratives, when in fact it often requires considerable courage to voice unpopular positions. We note that Vatican leadership, including Pope Francis himself, has expressed similar concerns about proportionality in these conflicts.

This conversation serves as an invitation to transcend simplistic political labels and return to the rich resources of Catholic moral theology. The path forward lies not in adopting secular frameworks but in renewing our commitment to authentic Catholic social teaching - even when it challenges the powerful.

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting the Stage for Discussion
• 4:07 Origins of the "Woke Right" Term
• 9:27 James Lindsay's Political Framework
• 15:17 Catholic Just War Theory vs Israel-Gaza War
• 28:02 Examining Father Jason's Interview with Matt Fradd
• 43:12 Christian Identity and Theological Conflict
• 56:57 Debt Slavery and Modern Economic Reality
• 1:14:07 Concerns for Future Generations

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:49

SANTE, sante AMARE MORTI LEGADAS NOS In tes per a verand.

Speaker 2: 1:18

All right, no opening video tonight. We don't know what eyes are going to watch this video. I have a feeling it might wind up having a different audience than we usually have, so I didn't want to just make the whole thing jovial. Juvenile jokes um, while we're waiting for people to build in a little bit, uh, christian wagner is a friend of ours. Um, christian, have we spoken on air since we uh hung out in north carolina?

Speaker 2: 1:46

I don't think so I don't think we have not on air, right, like me and you me and you talk behind the scenes and stuff. But so, yeah, we got to meet Christian when we went down to North Carolina recently, spent a few hours hanging out. We don't have a good time. Before we get into the subject matter, we are going to do a quick plug for Recusant. Recusant Cellars. They are a vineyard in Washington, right? Oh?

Speaker 1: 2:12

my gosh, come on, I don't have this thing memorized, yet I should. You told me to text it to you and I texted it to you but you never have it.

Speaker 5: 2:19

I love when we fight over the ad read.

Speaker 2: 2:22

Yes they're a vineyard in.

Speaker 1: 2:23

Washington State.

Speaker 2: 2:25

Oh, this poor company.

Speaker 1: 2:27

They are openly and strongly Catholic and pro-life. If you go to requisite sellerscom and use code base 25 at checkout, you'll get 10 base 25 awesome but only 10 off you only get 10 but base 25.

Speaker 2: 2:44

They might be like rad trad uh lunatics like we are, because they are. They're the only company that supports us, so if you guys can, they're a great gift. Easter's coming up Might be a good one to order as an Easter gift.

Speaker 1: 2:56

If you order today, you'll probably get it before Easter. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:00

Yeah. So if you guys want to help support the show, go to Reggie St Sellers. All right. So now to the subject at hand. We're not going to bury the lead tonight. So initial thoughts, so initial thoughts. I saw Matt posted the thumbnail and the title a couple of days before it actually aired and I'm like, okay, what angle is he going to take with this, the title being what, what was?

Speaker 3: 3:29

the actual title.

Speaker 2: 3:30

It was like the donald trump, the woke right and something else and the ukraine war or something like that, and I I hate the idea of even framing this conversation this way, um, but I do think that people genuinely don't know what it means. Um, I think specifically don't know what it means the woke right part specifically, I'm sorry, yeah, the woke right part. I don't know if people understand where this phrase comes from, what it means, why it's being thrown around so much. So I think we're going to have to get into the origins of it. Who's the one behind this whole thing? We're going to play a couple of clips from that interview and just kind of go through it.

Speaker 2: 4:18

When I threw the interview on, I was just kind of like taken back, like whoa, because I like Father Sharon, like I genuinely like him. I think he's a really good priest, I think that he's like I, I see him, I kind of my disagreements with him on the ukraine war I've always kind of looked at like okay, he, this, this is very close to his heart, he has family over there, he knows, he knows people on the ground over there. I I always gave him leeway to have a disagreement with me because this issue was so close to his heart. So I I kind of just was like all right, you know, I I get it like we can have a disagreement on it, and it doesn't. It never affected my view of him in any way because he felt this strongly about this issue. Um, what's your experience with father charlton christian?

Speaker 3: 5:08

I mean father, father jason, uh, Christian, I mean Father Jason. I've spoken positively about him in the past. Actually, I was in a little bit of talks with somebody who worked with Father Jason, trying to spread a fundraiser that he was running to repair something in his church because his church might actually have to God forbid shut down because of a leak in their bell, uh, their bell tower, basically. Um, so, if anybody's interested in that, I actually linked it um in a post earlier. Um, so I've always, I've always had a great deal of respect for him. Uh, you know, we haven't had direct contact, but indirect, and no, I don't, I don't want to say anything bad about him as a priest. I mean, we want to keep this civil. Anthony actually called me and was like I don't want to seem like we're being unkind to either Matt or Father Jason, because we do genuinely appreciate this. So I hope that this stream comes across in the right way, that we're not trying to. We're trying to approach this delicately and charitably, understanding that, especially when it comes to matters like this of the temporal order, that there is a great degree of leeway in discussing these matters as practical. Okay, and did you want to discuss the whole origins of the woke right term, which is kind of what set off the alarms in the first play, Because for a lot of people who haven't heard this term woke right, it would seem really weird that we saw this, and I mean a lot of us were messaging behind the scenes like, hey, this is coming out from Matt.

Speaker 3: 6:49

We didn't know what it was going to contain. It ended up mostly being about the Ukraine war, which personally I don't care too much about the Ukraine war, but I understand that a lot of other people do have strong feelings about it and they can or cannot if they so wish. But seeing this term woke right was such an alarm for me because of what the opposite of woke right represents, which is a mainstream conservatism that is basically practically libertarian in nature. It is socially liberal. It's invented by James Lindsay, who is an atheist who definitely does not espouse Catholic political theology.

Speaker 2: 7:33

James Lindsay wants a democratic, secular enlightenment utopia. He's stated several times he wants to be. He thinks 1996 was the greatest time in the history of the world and everything he's doing. This term woke right is basically used as a shoe-in word for anti-Semite. That's essentially what it is. So basically, the word racist, the word anti-Semitic, those words lost their sting completely. But over the last couple of years the term that actually did work was calling things woke. So we called things woke, so we called things woke. On the left Everybody was just like I don't like this woke thing, I don't like it. So in place of anti-Semitic, James has decided just call anybody who criticizes Israel in any way whatsoever, Just call them woke right. That's all it really comes down to. I mean, he acts like he has this whole philosophy behind it, but that's essentially what he's getting at.

Speaker 1: 8:32

I mean, he acts like he has this whole philosophy behind it, but that's essentially what he's getting at, it's just another way for people on the left to call us Nazis, basically.

Speaker 3: 8:38

I think it goes a degree further though, because I mean I've seen other areas which this touches, which I think that, when it comes to Father Jason and Matt, that they would not be OK with. So, for example, James Lindsay will also point to those who in any way are collectivists, and collectivism basically means oh, you want religion to have a role in governance Well, you're woke right. Oh, you want to support, maybe, economic policies that are not like Milton Friedman but basically like a very classical liberal model of economics. You don't want free trade. You think that some sort of government planning actually is helpful to the economy? Oh, you're woke right.

Speaker 3: 9:22

And I think that Father Jason and I mentioned this to Anthony in our phone call that we had on Sunday.

Speaker 3: 9:27

I said well, father Jason even indicated in this interview that he thought that there were huge problems with oligarchs in Ukraine, to where a lot of the industries in Ukraine should continue to be ran and owned by the Ukrainian government, so it doesn't go into the hands of oligarchs. That is something that James, james Lindsay himself would frame as woke right. I mean, I would like to chalk this up to and forgive me for using this term, but like boomerisms, to where obviously Father Jason and Matt are a little bit younger than the boomer generation. Basically, this idea of somebody who is a bit less involved in internet culture and sometimes they use terms incorrectly and woke right definitely is a term which I believe here is just being completely misconstrued and it's being more so used as a slur than it is as an actual basis for debate, because I commented this on the original Pines to the Quintus interview. I said well, when you said woke right, you said woke right is against the principles of Christendom. I said well, isn't James Lindsay the guy who is an atheist, individualist? Enlightenment LARPer?

Speaker 2: 10:38

Rob, pull up James Lindsay's speech, the screenshot I sent you of James Lindsay where he says thinking about becoming, pretending to be a Christian. So James Lindsay saw this coming. Now his biggest fear is some kind of Christian nationalism uprising right. He sees that the younger generation specifically is fed up with liberalism in general to be Christian. So I can tell Christians how bad they are at being Christian and they'll have to listen to me.

Speaker 2: 11:14

Now most of the conversations I have seen James involved in are in Christian areas, telling Christians how they're not acting Christian he like he's because people underestimate this guy and they I've seen people say James Lindsay, he's an idiot, he's stupid. This guy is not stupid by any stretch of the imagination. He has studied Marxism very thoroughly. He's well known for getting these papers submitted. I wish I knew the exact thing that he did, but he got some papers submitted through peer review or something and they were just literally like Mein Kampf that he changed a few of the words in, but he submitted mind comp the communist manifesto the communist manifesto, things like that, that he got submitted through peer review and it got passed through and stuff.

Speaker 2: 12:01

The guy understands how how marxism works and he understands that accuse others of what you yourself are doing is like marxism 101. It's like Saul Alinsky's rules for radicals, you know, and that's what it seems like he is doing in my mind. He's not a dumb guy. He knows exactly what he's doing.

Speaker 3: 12:21

Yeah, rob, could you share what I just presented real quick? Yeah, so this is a chart that he made, but what you see is things like one state religion, christianity, collectivists. Once more, government power believes power matters more than truth. Obsessed with racial identity, hates Jews the things that James Lindsay thinks is woke right. Obviously there's certain things which are more disputed in Catholic circles, but something like one state religion. I mean, come on, he basically applies this to anybody of the Christian nationalists who simply want a return to basically what everyone prior to about 75 years thought about authority of Christianity in government.

Speaker 2: 13:12

Even him showing blames women on the right Now, look, I, I understand like the manosphere has gotten a little out of control and they're, you know, a bit brash, but I think the younger generation sees how much feminism has rotted our culture. Like so many of these things, if you break down each one, there's a reason. People are really upset with them. This isn't this isn't just a throwaway issue where you could just just say, oh, blames women, that's, that's the woke right are a lot different than they were five years ago and I think people are shocked by them. But the younger generation has not been subjected to the same propaganda that the older generations have and I think that's you know. A lot of their stories are losing their power, exactly. So, all right, do you want to just get into playing some of the clips and we'll go through it and we'll break down. So the first one, right off the bat, is him framing Judeo-Christian, which I think is hugely problematic right off the bat. So we'll play that clip real quick.

Speaker 4: 14:23

You know, prior to Trump being elected, it was a lot easier, I think, for group cohesion, when we defined ourselves perhaps not by what we were, but by what we were against. We're against the left, we're against wokeism. Now that Trump and the administration have come to power, I'm noticing a lot of infighting and trying to figure out who we are. It feels like that's a lot more difficult. Figuring out what we are and what we're about is actually a more difficult thing than just defining yourself by what you're against. Yes, and so right now, it seems like the right to use political language is trying to figure that out. What are you seeing?

Speaker 5: 15:01

Well, I see that as reflected in the church's history. You know, we had, you know, in the first few centuries we had numerous, you know, bishops and authorities, theologians, condemning and attacking various heresies, irenaeus of Lyon, attacking Gnosticism and the Judaizing heresy of the first and second century, and there are lots of Orthodox writers denouncing what they're against. But only by the year 325, and actually by 380, does the church put forth kind of of a symbol of faith, as it's called the, the creed as it's translated, and this is what we're for, you know. So it took, uh, it took over three centuries for the church to be able to do that, and I I see that as well as is as our society and our culture um, kind of implode seeing that it, it removed the, the pillars of, of the Judeo Christian foundation, of our, of our society.

Speaker 2: 15:55

We have a lot of touch on that real quick, because even that, framing it as Judeo Christian, I really do see this as a problem.

Speaker 1: 16:07

This is, this is crazy talk to say he's employing the that the Nicene Creed is Judeo-Christian.

Speaker 2: 16:15

It's fundamentally different. I think you could really tell just by going back to Matt Fradd's conversation with what was his name Prager, when they had that conversation about pornography, like a lot of people think, because the Jews have the old Testament, that they're you know that it's like they have half of our religion, so they have the same. They have the same moral foundation that we do and they absolutely do not. And when you really get into what Matt talked about with Dennis Prager in that conversation, there's no such thing to them as lust of the heart, of sins of the heart. It's like action. So it comes down to what Jesus was actually upset with the Pharisees about. It's that they were finding ways to skirt the rules so that they could technically say they're obeying the law but completely missing the point of the law that was given. So to say that the West is built on these Judeo-Christian pillars is just a flat out lie.

Speaker 3: 17:15

Yeah, and I think it's a bit disingenuous. Obviously not saying that. I'm talking in itself, obviously not saying that Father Jason intended this, but this phrase Judeo-Christian, because when we think of that term Judeo, we think of Judeo in terms of contemporary Judaism, in terms of Judaism as we interact with it now. Judaism as we interact with it now is not the same as, essentially speaking, as Second Temple Judaism or even Old Testament Judaism. There is a long history of explicit anti-Christian elements within the moral theology, within the political theology and with every other aspect of theology within Judaism that is meant to be something which is posited on the fundamental postulate that they are against Christianity. So the term Judeo-Christian if Judeo is taken in the completely obvious sense that anyone is going to take it, it is a complete contradiction in terms. It makes absolutely no sense.

Speaker 2: 18:20

Yeah, if you even listen to like a Roy Schuman's conversion story, he's like they ingrain it in your head if you're growing up Jewish, that like you could become Buddhist, you could become. Like you could become buddhist you could become. Like you could become anything, they don't care, you could be atheist, you could be buddhist, you could be. You could even like there's no limit to what religion you can choose, as long as you don't choose jesus. Like there is an implicit, like uh, adversarial relationship between christianity and judaism. There's not modern Judaism and even actually anything after they get thrown out of Jerusalem in 70 AD. There's this adversarial relationship. And I think that we've lost our sense of that in modern culture because we have, after World War II, you have this victim narrative that comes out about what the Jews endured during World War II, so that the church even changes its language towards them and things like that. So we all kind of have a different understanding of that adversarial relationship.

Speaker 3: 19:28

Yeah, I mean, it's something which is fundamental and I think this is something that gets forgotten is there are certain fundamental notions of people, groups Like there are. There's a sort of sort of founding myth that gets imbibed in us as we grow up, like as Americans. There is a founding myth that we are imbibed with when it comes to Judaic history, everything from very conservative Jews to the most liberal Jews. The fact that Christians are the booge is right-wing. They are opposed to right-wing, they're opposed to collectivism, they're opposed to any sort of racial identity that is present among white people. These are things among the Jews, and I understand why they think this way. Obviously, I can understand why they think this way, while also disagreeing to where the attributes of Christians specifically Catholic and white, european and right wing these three are like completely in opposition to the very fundamentals of modern Judaism. So how can we even speak of a Judeo Christian civilization that is going to retain our uh, the all three forms of those identities? The thing is we can't think of one, which is the whole point.

Speaker 3: 20:57

No, the term is we just need to destroy all three of those aspects, which is what he's supposed to know.

Speaker 2: 21:01

They're.

Speaker 2: 21:02

They're like contradictory terms. They really are. And I and I it's look, I we did a video the other day where we said like I have this intuition that this issue is going to be super divisive going forward. I kind of don't want to talk about it that much, but every time I turn around the freaking conversation is everywhere. Douglas Murray just debated Dave Smith. We're actually going to play a clip of Fuentes on the local segment that I think is very interesting, but we'll, we'll get into that over on locals, but the just, it's just everywhere, right? I just watched Catholic unscripted had father Maudsley on to discuss the liturgy and then the next day Gavin Ashton then comes out and basically like refutes every single thing that was said in that interview.

Speaker 2: 21:50

I think that this is going to be a very difficult issue going forward. Now, how we handle it. It's like this very much has to not be about a dislike or a hatred of a people. This very much has to be a theological issue for us. I mean, this story goes back to the Old Testament, from Cain and Abel to Esau and Jacob, to every parable Christ tells about, even the, about the prodigal son, about it's.

Speaker 2: 22:22

The covenant goes to the younger. You know the younger brother, the older brother gets jealous and then the older brother lashes out over it. So I think if we're not aware of that and understand the significance of it, it's going to be a problem for us if we're just naive to it. And I see a lot of things going on, even with, like Trent Warren with the Phylos Project, and I see, right after Trent does the Phylos Project thing, I saw Matt wrote a thing on his sub stack about a dialogue between a person who was being accused of anti-Semitism and it seemed like a very concerted effort at propagandizing Catholics and that that worried me a lot.

Speaker 3: 23:02

Yeah, I mean this is. This is one of the central issues of our times and, as you mentioned, there are a lot of Catholic figures, especially in the generation, your guys's generation, the generation older than me. A lot of these figures are connected. There are a bunch of connected figures who have a goal in mind and a status quo to keep, and this isn't just simply something of a simply theological matter. This isn't something which is merely speculative. This is very practical.

Speaker 3: 23:33

I mean for myself, father Jason. He framed it in a very odd way and we're going to get into this a little bit later. I'm assuming the way that Father Jason framed it is, and this is the way in which almost every one of the philo-Semitic propagandizers out there will frame. It is Israel's right to defend itself on just war principles. I obviously, more than most, agree with the right of a nation to protect itself on just war principles, but the right of a nation to protect itself on just war principles does not somehow extend to any sort of method being appropriate, and there are methods which Israel has used which are objectively inappropriate.

Speaker 3: 24:16

If somebody comes and tries to break into my house and harm my family, I have the right to defend myself. I don't have the right to go to his apartment building, kill his family and kill all the families around him. That's not a right that I have to self-defense. And I think it's very unfortunate the way in which this debate is being framed, because I think we could have a great degree of agreement. I do think that when we talk with one another, one-on-one between these two sides, if we framed it properly, if we distilled the theses into clear ways, I do think we could actually have a lot of agreement.

Speaker 2: 24:50

But unfortunately, a lot of current events and a lot of politics ends up being propagandizing, whether intentionally or unintentionally people who, once they kind of get cued in on this topic, all they see is Jews everywhere, and it's just like you wind up seeing people get so obsessed with it and then they start saying horrific things, and I think these guys are generally worried about violence, like they're worried about seeing another pogrom type incident happening. And I'm not saying their fears are completely unjustified. I'm not saying their their fears are completely unjustified. I'm not saying any of that. My concern is by by participating in the propaganda on behalf of Israel, are you then ignoring the actual problem that is going to be our issue, which would be the older brother coming at us down the line? So let's, let's get into the father Jason. Clip the next clip. It's a. This is where they actually discussed the woke right, okay?

Speaker 4: 26:00

the woke left, at least in the last decade. But people are beginning to use a new phrase the woke right. What is that? What's your?

Speaker 5: 26:08

opinion of it. Yeah, again, a lot of this is the movement out of that Toho and Bogo, out of formlessness and wasteland. Everything in scripture is the archetype for understanding ourselves and our society, and I see this with uh, the woke right as well, as I call it. What is that? What does that mean it?

Speaker 2: 26:30

it's uh, people who kind of they just said as I call it. He said the woke right as I call it, which is like I was like wait, what is going on here? As almost nobody else.

Speaker 3: 26:42

Nobody else calls it.

Speaker 2: 26:43

It's not him attempting to explain what other people are saying about the way he's like well, the woke right, as I call it, and I'm like what the heck is going on here.

Speaker 5: 26:54

I'll put it this way. You know, the Egyptian, the Israelites, they left Egypt and they get their freedom, they're free from the house of slavery, and what do they do? They worship a golden calf. They worship the golden calf, which is worshipped by the house, but they are infected by the old idols still, and that is, their positions are emotive and they're not based on faith and reason, and so they're against things, just like the anger of the old leftists. They're angry, they're against patriarchy, they're against the institution of the old leftists. You know, they're angry, they're against patriarchy, they're against the institution of institutional Christianity, they're against all this.

Speaker 5: 27:50

What are you for? Well, we don't know. And so what we have in the woke right are people who are against the evils of the left. Okay, and they're not for the principles that formed Christendom. And so you see this, for example, with regard to Israel and this insurgent anti-Semitism. You see this with regard to Ukraine, and both of which are against right reason, both of which are against uh, you know, just war theory, which is reasonable, both of which are there's more.

Speaker 3: 28:30

I don't know what that first part is supposed to mean. Uh, people who do things emotively and are not based on faith and right reason. I mean it isn't that like every single republican member of congress right now? Isn't that, god forbid? Often the president himself? I mean, describing things in such a manner does not lead to understanding, but is a mere disputation about words causing conflict. It's just very unfortunate that this type of way of defining it I don't even know what this is supposed to mean James Lindsay falls under this definition. Who invented the term for other people? It's unfortunate.

Speaker 2: 29:09

I'm finding like a big thing where anybody that supports Israel also supports Ukraine, which is troubling to me, like I saw Douglas Murray with the Dave Smith debate, him supporting Ukraine and Israel. And I think it has to do with Israel gets attacked on October 7th and they have a right to defend themselves. Ukraine gets invaded by Russia and they have a right to defend themselves. I think that's where the roots of it come. The difference is I see Ukraine as the actual victim of not just Russia but America and NATO. Like they're kind of just these pawns that are being used.

Speaker 2: 29:46

I don't think, I don't think Ukraine did anything to instigate this war. I do think they have a right to defend against the, an incursion by another country, things like that, but I just think they're pawns and they're just they're fighting. They're they're basically the way the U? S is fighting its proxy war against Russia. So I kind of forgive him for his Russia, his Ukraine stance, but the idea that Israel is fighting under just war theory. So we have a, we have a Thomas with us. I had Rob pull up a few quotes by St Thomas on just war and I want I want to kind of go through this so people understand that there is no possible way you could say Israel is fighting under just war principle like none.

Speaker 1: 30:31

You want them now.

Speaker 2: 30:32

Yeah, let's pull them up, let's just go through them. So, um, but war is contrary. Hold on, hold, on, hold on Start with. I answered that. Okay, I answered that in order for a war to be just, three things are necessary. First, the authority of the sovereign by whose command the war is to be waged. For it is not the business of a private individual to declare war because he can seek for the redress of his rights from the tribunal of his superior. Moreover, it is not the business of a private individual to summon together the people, which has to be done in wartime. And as the care of the commonweal is committed to those who are in authority, it is their business to watch over the commonweal of the city, kingdom or province. You have to go down to where it's all right.

Speaker 3: 31:19

Yeah. So I mean, the first one is like basically, like I can't declare war on, like Washington DC or something I feel like it would have to be somebody.

Speaker 2: 31:29

Proper parties have to be the ones to declare the war. A just cause is required, namely that those who are attacked should be attacked because they deserve it on account of some fault. Wherefore, augustine says a just war is wont to be described as one that avenges wrongs. When a nation or state has to be punished for refusing to make amends for the wrongs inflicted by its subjects or to restore what has been seized unjustly, this is where it gets tricky, because people want to act like. This war started on October 7th but the whole state of Israel coming into being, they seized that land unjustly in the beginning. Like, this land was seized unjustly from the people that were living there and it involved a genocide of the people that lived there. So, like, if you're going to go back to the roots of it, that's where it starts.

Speaker 3: 32:23

Yeah, I mean. The first terrorists in the Middle East were Jews, who were terrorists against the British Empire. Those were the first terrorists in the Middle East.

Speaker 1: 32:33

They invented the word bombing.

Speaker 3: 32:35

Yeah, yeah. Any terrorist group in the Middle East who currently exists is simply following the example of the Jews and what the Jews did to the British. Unfortunately, this was something continued after the invention of the Israeli state. And there's this idea because obviously we don't affirm that Israel has a divine right to the land and it's kind of awkward whether we talk about them having even a natural right. There's some times in which we say they don't have a natural right and sometimes in which we do speak of a right which is like acquired. So like, for example, if your great grandfather stole the house in which you live in, after a few generations it ends up by the laws of inheritance, kind of saying like okay, well, you can't really kick the family out of the house.

Speaker 1: 33:24

Your grandfather did the laws of inheritance kind?

Speaker 3: 33:25

of saying like okay, well, you can't really kick the family out of the house, but when it came, yeah, exactly when it comes to the founding of the state of Israel, those Palestinians and something St Thomas is going to say in the third section there is that the right intention. So, for example, he brings up the preservation of religion. So, for example, he brings up the preservation of religion. So obviously we know that Islam is a false religion, but when it comes to the judgment of moral acts we look at was to defend those of the same religion and those of the same racial identity with themselves or general cultural identity. So, in the same way as maybe I would want to defend the British from an invasion of foreigners and from the seizing of their land, in the same way Egypt might want to defend Palestinians. So, ironically, the most just war which has been waged in the Middle East since the 1940s has been the war waged against Israel by the coalition of Arab states. Now, something else that St Thomas is going to bring up and he brings this up constantly is like not only do you have to have right intention, you also have to have a right manner of operating.

Speaker 3: 34:49

There's obviously collateral damage always in wars. You can't have any war without collateral. But you can't do this as something reckless. You have to measure and try to reduce collateral damage as much as you can, and Israel has engaged in this war in a very reckless way, and this is something the church itself has recognized. This is something which Father Jason's superiors, His Holiness Pope Francis, those who most intimately know the situation in Gaza, such as Cardinal Pizzabola, the Vatican Secretary of State Parolin, Almost everybody with any matter of temporal say within the Vatican, within the church, both on extrinsic basis of authority and intrinsic basis of authority, anyone there has said about this war it is being unjustly done. I don't get how somebody can chalk this up as being woke right. I mean, is Pope Francis woke right? Is Cardinal Parolin?

Speaker 2: 35:52

woke right. Cardinal Pizzabolo woke right. It's completely insane.

Speaker 1: 35:57

Israel actually has a term for how they wage these military actions. They call it mowing the grass and the idea is that basically, once per generation, they wait for a provocation to go into Palestinian territories and mow the grass, which is basically military-aged men, and they do this once a generation to keep the Palestinians down, Armed forces down yeah. And that's literally how they plan these operations to go and just wipe out a whole generation of young men.

Speaker 3: 36:31

Can you think of another area in the world whose average age is 18? Why have you ever asked yourself why Gaza's average age is 18?

Speaker 1: 36:41

And it's always 18. It's always that same average age it's brutal.

Speaker 3: 36:45

It's always that same average age. It's brutal, it's barbaric. Or suspension of belief in primary reports, at least to understand where other people are coming from who do give credence to primary reporting on the ground and to somehow not to have the moderation not to accuse that other person of being an anti-Semite or any other litany of charges that they're going to level against us.

Speaker 2: 37:26

Yeah, this is a good comment, though. So the problem with being pro-Palestine is you're herded into the same category as the communists who are on college campuses and supporting Hamas and stuff. But just because some side gets something right doesn't mean you go against it, like I think that's a big problem that we're seeing in politics in general right now. It's like Trump will do something outrageous and everybody sees the left go nuts and they think it must be good because the left hates it. But the left just hates everything Trump does. So there's going to be things that you guys should stand your ground on and be like this is awful what Trump is doing, you know, like starting war with Iran.

Speaker 3: 38:32

I'll be happy, and I also, and I also think that we. Another point that I would bring up to Father Jason is that we can't understand this war in Libya, in any one of the wars that we had in the region and the reason for this and the great Yemen. What's so absurdly frustrating is look at the percentage of the population of those nations that were Christian in 1940 versus today. I mean, some of these countries were 20, 30% Christian and now a lot of them compare to the majority 5%.

Speaker 3: 38:53

It's awful. It's something which not only do my fellow religionists Catholics and Orthodox Christians and Protestants and such not only my fellow religionists being slaughtered or being driven out of their homeland because of this, but also my fellow countrymen are going into these countries and dying and, generally speaking, there are a lot of people who a lot of them are Muslims who are dying in these wars, who would otherwise be alive if it wasn't for what was going on Destabilized countries, starving, children from broken economies. It's just, it's brutal, it's barbaric.

Speaker 2: 39:33

And this is just nice, because a lot of people think I'm being soft on this issue. Like I read an article about Paul Singer yesterday about some of the investments he makes, paul Singer goes and he buys up the debt of countries on the verge of collapse like pennies on the dollar and then, when the country goes into default, he fights a 15-year battle to make sure they pay those debts at full price. It's a 20-year battle that he goes into and he impoverishes a nation. This is a way of doing business for certain people, like they don't care about human suffering whatsoever. There's absolutely no regard for human life in in in, just the suffering people from this group will cause if it means they're going to make money or it's going to expand their zion project. So it's like it should.

Speaker 1: 40:24

It should also be noted that radical groups like Hamas were actually largely supported by Israel, both largely financially, in order to derive opposition, the Christian population away from, you know, from the Palestinian cause and things like that. So the I mean the, the, the Islamist kind of faction of these nations are largely created by Israel.

Speaker 3: 40:52

Yeah, I mean it's getting so. The provocations are getting so bad. I have a lot of very pro-Zionist family members and I was talking with one of my family members and I was like this is, I think, that President Trump and much of his cabinet has at least a more sober mindset about Iran, a war with Iran? I'm just telling you guys, if you look at the logistics behind it, this isn't like Iraq. I mean, iran is much bigger, much better equipped, much larger population.

Speaker 3: 41:20

Iran is much bigger, much better equipped, much larger population, an army that's actually loyal to the Ayatollah. It's going to be something which effectively will bankrupt us. It's going to be something where a lot of American soldiers will die. Nobody wins by a war with Iran. The best situation for everyone except one group is diplomacy, and even with that family member, when I was talking to them about this, they were like oh yeah, you're absolutely right, netanyahu's off his rocker with the way in which he's going about this. The pro-war party within Israel, they're absolutely bloodthirsty and they're chomping at the bit for this conflict, because Iran is basically the last power in the region.

Speaker 2: 42:10

Okay, don't think this is wrong. You say Iran and Iraq.

Speaker 1: 42:14

I'm loving it. Iran is the last power in the region who is opposing the Zionist state?

Speaker 2: 42:22

You have to say it like George W Bush. You have to say Iraqorge w bush.

Speaker 3: 42:24

You have to say iraq it's, it's true, I mean their proxies or whatever you want to call them, those groups that they fund. They're really the only thorn in the side of israel and the only power which before like look at 1990, how many powers they there were that israel was scared of. Now the the only one left is it on?

Speaker 2: 42:44

dude, it's funny that you're saying you had this, uh, you know, a zionist family member. I had my, uh, I had my father over yesterday for uh, for palm sunday, and trying to break my, my boomer dad, out of the pro, pro zionist. Uh, wait, wagner, if you pronounce ira, iraq, like that again, the speech of George Bush will come after you. Having my father over, and just I know who my dad listens to. My dad's listening to Sean Hannity. He's listening to what's his name, glenn?

Speaker 1: 43:17

Beck.

Speaker 2: 43:18

Not even Glenn Beck. He's listening to Glenn Beck. No, he's listening to the. Oh man, what the heck is his name? He's another guy on Fox News. He's on like Sundays or something. He's a Jewish guy. Oh man, why can't I think of his name? Anyway, my dad Watches Fox News and I'm just like Do you have any idea what you're saying right now? And I try to Just break him out of it a little bit and he's just like he starts, like he started off kind of hearing me out a little bit and then he was like no, there's, there's savages, those people over there. You can't. I'm like, oh man, you just thought about that. That. You just I don't know. It's very hard to look at Levin Mark Levin, that's who it is Mark Levin.

Speaker 2: 44:02

Mark Levin, that's who it is, oh yeah, mark Levin, that's who my dad's listening to. Mark Levin and Hannity and all those guys. He was like a huge Rush Limbaugh guy, my dad. But it's just to get the older generation. You saw it even in the Catholic Unscripted thing that happened, where Catherine and Mark are a little younger, gavin's older. He grows up, he's listening. There's 200 World War II movies a year put out from Hollywood. It's insane. These guys grow up watching every single thing, like every movie every year. The Oscars is a holocaust. But even this year, in 2025, the two Oscar movies with the Brutalist who's a concentration camp survivor, who comes to America and he's gay, and all this stuff.

Speaker 2: 44:51

Then the other one is with Macaulay Culkin's brother, kieran Culkin, and him and his cousin go to Poland to go to Auschwitz and all this. It's like this narrative is just nonstop forced down our throats, even in 2025. But when you're coming right out of World War II, it's so much stronger and it's like they get rid of Christian history in schools and all they teach is Holocaust history and it's this is just what it is. It's so to get older guys to break from that narrative is very, very difficult, and I think that I've seen the conversation shift a lot in the last two years since October 7th. I think Israel is severely losing the propaganda war like really, really badly.

Speaker 3: 45:39

Majority of Americans now don't support Israel unconditionally.

Speaker 1: 45:44

The only group that does is 50 year old plus republicans the rhinos.

Speaker 3: 45:49

We're coming for you, crazy. We're coming for you, rhinos but what worries me?

Speaker 2: 45:54

there's two things that worry me in that. It's that one. They're not going to lose the narrative like the. So you see this huge propaganda push, like all I see on twitter is douglas murray is amazing oh my goodness, douglas. On Twitter is Douglas Murray's amazing. Oh my goodness, douglas Murray's amazing. It's like nonstop being pushed every, every other tweet. It's all I'm seeing. But the other thing is there's even an admission from Wagner's, the guy who says Shay, shay when picking up his chain.

Speaker 3: 46:18

I don't know what that means.

Speaker 1: 46:19

I think it means thank you Probably.

Speaker 2: 46:36

The other thing that worries me is there's this like admission from even the Trump White House that the, the, the liberal economic order that was set up after World War Two, is is over and people are kind of done with that, that myth that has held our culture up. That has held our culture up, and when I see that I think they need a new, huge event to start a huge new myth and narrative to, to set up a new culture on and that way and to clarify for the audience when we're talking about the, the myths surrounding world war two, we're not necessarily saying that every event as purported is ahistorical.

Speaker 3: 47:05

Rather, what we're saying is that there's a certain narrative of good guy, bad guy that gets played to where the allies did everything immaculately and we were fighting the whole time to end the Holocaust and such like this and such like this. But really, obviously we know from a reasonable study of primary sources that this whole big narrative of the Allies being immaculate, we were doing the whole thing to save the Jews, we knew about it the whole time, we were just trying to save them. We know that this is just not true at all and therefore the sort of post-World War II consensus you know this ends up being that you know, nationalist right wing, that's bad evil. You know mustache man, he espoused all of this and what's good is a sort of moderate left, socially liberal, pro Zionist sort of ideology.

Speaker 2: 48:10

You think about where the conservative movement is today. Think about who Trump is. Trump is Bill Clinton from the 90s. Like there is no conservatism today. Like what have we conserved? We've conserved nothing. Trump has a gay man with a surrogate child in his cabinet, I mean, and they're like held up, like oh look, we're not gay, like we're not homophobic. It's like it's insane how much the overton window has shifted over the past couple of years this is brother.

Speaker 1: 48:40

Wagner is a true.

Speaker 3: 48:42

So true, he's real for that.

Speaker 2: 48:46

All right, so let's play the rest of that clip. I think we were like two minutes in. Did you lose the place mark on it, rob?

Speaker 1: 48:55

Sure did, but that's okay, I'll get it back. Let's just see where we are here.

Speaker 5: 49:04

They get their freedom, they're free from the house of slavery. And what do they do? They worship a golden calf, they worship the golden couch and long.

Speaker 3: 49:13

They hate Israel.

Speaker 5: 49:14

Old slavery. And so what we see with the woke right are people who um into the house, but they, they, they are infected by the old idols still, and that is, uh, their positions are emotive and they're not based on, uh, faith and reason, and so they're against things, just like the anger of the old, the old leftists, you know they're, they're, they're angry, they're, they're against patriarchy, they're against the institution of institutional Christianity, they're against all this. What are you for? Well, we don't know. And so what we have in the woke right are people who are against the evils of the left, okay, and they're not for the principles that formed Christendom, the principles that formed Christendom. And so you see this, for example, with regard to Israel and this insurgent anti-Semitism, you see this with regard to Ukraine, and both of which are against right reason, both of which are against just war theory, which is reasonable, both of which are against compassion and charity, which is reasonable, both of which are against compassion and charity. And so that's what I'm seeing.

Speaker 4: 50:29

So people who you might accuse of being anti-Semites or anti-Ukraine you may not use that language, I think would protest. They would say, actually, anti-semitism is a word, sort of like when people would use the word racism to shut down a discussion. I think that's what they feel when they're being told you're an anti-Semite. And I think they would also have their reasons for not supporting Ukraine monetarily but at the same time wouldn't wish any harm upon them. So what's wrong with that?

Speaker 5: 51:06

time, wouldn't wish any harm upon them. So what's wrong? What's wrong with that? Yeah, it is um. I think the worst form of cowardice and intellectual and moral cowardice is uh didn't he just mention something about the other side not having charity, like?

Speaker 2: 51:18

that's why I wanted you to keep playing a little bit, because he's, he's, the.

Speaker 1: 51:21

This cowardice line is really I'll back up a little insert.

Speaker 5: 51:25

Yeah, just backing up a drop, but just because what he says here is outlandish artist is uh evacuating yourself from the present moral fight of our age and uh, you find reasons to to evacuate yourself from those, uh, those causes that are the causes that define uh moral virtue in our day and age. And I think that with regard to uh, you know, israel, with regard to ukraine, um, there is a very clear case in in both, both scenarios different zip codes, but both same principle applies is that the affronted victim has a right to use just and equal force to repel the unjust aggressor once everything else has been.

Speaker 2: 52:19

So all right, there's a couple of things there. Matt is framing that as a devil's advocate question and trying to present the other side point of view, but I do know Matt is also concerned with this issue, like you could tell he is. That's kind of why he's framing the question that way. Yeah, the idea that we are not on the side of Ukraineraine and israel because of moral cowardice is shocking and offensive it is.

Speaker 3: 52:50

Yeah, it is it, it definitely it definitely is, because it doesn't seem like, when it comes to those who are for the war in israel, that they're being the ones who are exposed, exposed, doxed, blocked, kicked off of different websites, kicked out of college. Their entire careers get ruined. I mean, it's not those people. It's actually quite easy. It's one of the easiest things to do in the United States of America, especially in conservative spheres, to be pro-Israel. Do in the united states of america, especially in conservative spheres, to be pro-israel. So I just do not understand how um it can in any way be be cowardly no, I think.

Speaker 2: 53:32

I think it's the opposite zionist entity I think it's the total opposite, like we're even this conversation we're having.

Speaker 2: 53:39

It's like you're risking your youtube channel, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:43

You're like I don't want to have this conversation. I feel like it's like a moral duty to have it, like my conscience bothers me to not have it and I'd have it a different way if I could speak freely and not have to worry about any of those things. But I also have to worry about being like we're at a point where, if you're unwilling to be labeled with the accusation of anti-Semitism, I don't know how you're going to make it going forward, because that's going to be the first thing. They lobby you and it's going to get much worse and I think that this is going to be where the persecution starts to get riled up. So if you're the one pushing the propaganda for the Philos Project, I think you are going to enable the coming persecution that will come against Catholics, who have to stand their ground on this, because this is insane what they are doing, not just in the Middle East, but even just using America as their guard dog to go and do their bidding throughout the world. It's really, it's pretty appalling.

Speaker 3: 54:53

I think, something that I found to be the most frustrating and this is a habitual problem in parts of this interview that are meant to oppose the woke right. Woke right I found it to be most frustrating and I guess I'll phrase it like this there's a sort of traditional teaching of the spiritual authors that when you make resolutions like you want to make a spiritual resolution to overcome some vice or to acquire some virtue, you need to make that resolution particular, have to say, oh well, I'm going to detest the world in this way or in this way, and then doing these things, you have to be very specific, because a general sort of rebuke is just kind of useless If you're not pointing to particular people, particular issues and particular solutions, particular arguments against those positions. You're just kind of doing what we normally phrase as virtue signaling.

Speaker 3: 55:45

You're not actually trying to attack a particular position. So I found to be so frustrating is these rebukes and explanations and arguments are so general that, like I joked earlier, I mean who are we talking about? Are we talking about James Lindsay? When you're describing the woke right, I mean this describes a bunch of people who conventionally would not be described as the woke right. So when you stay in generalities, we're not able to go forward in this conversation that we need to have between generations with respect and understanding.

Speaker 2: 56:15

And the thing with the Ukraine war also. I have to say I want nothing but peace over there. I want that war over. I have a 19 old son and I do not want my son going to war in Ukraine, like I'm sorry if that's cowardice. No, I don't want my son going over to go fight in Ukraine for a war that America provoked, because America did provoke that war. America provoked Russia and now Ukraine I see as innocent victims in this stupid chess game that America and Russia have been playing and it finally came to head and they're the ones suffering for it. So no, I don't want my son going over to fight in that war, I'm sorry. So I want peace at all costs. I want to stop seeing the death of so many young Ukrainian men who've lost all chance at the next generation, like you killed so many people in this war. There's an entire generation of Ukrainian men who will never have families because something that in russian men too in russia too yeah, yeah

Speaker 3: 57:11

something that father jason said correctly is that this is a population game for russia. It absolutely is like they russia wants to. They have a vested interest in increasing their population due to, uh, replacement. This is absolutely true, and we also need to consider the fact that one of the effects of this war is really the mass slaughter of an entire generation. How are they supposed to replace now? I mean, is anybody going to immigrate to Ukraine? Is anybody going to immigrate to Russia? Those aren't exactly immigration hotspots, for, you know, maybe that's how we'll we'll clean up the all the immigrants which need to be brought into Europe through Israel's latest aggression. Maybe we'll just send them to Ukraine and Russia and we can get all the population increase from the mass slaughter of young men. It's, it's just, it's, it's heartbreaking, um, and it doesn't need to be like this, uh it, it absolutely doesn't need to be like this.

Speaker 2: 58:08

So okay, so now, I want to go over to locals now and I want to talk. I want to play a uh, I want to play a Fuentes clip. Um, I think that he I think he's an important person in this conversation, like he really is. Um, I know a lot of people don't like him, but he's saying a lot of things that need to be discussed, so we're gonna go over there. We're gonna talk about some something he said. Um, also, me and rob are gonna fight it out to see how old your kids should be before you look at watch the passion uh, this might be. If you guys join locals, you might see the next co-sleeping fight. So I would want to see this one about you guys, because me and rob rob said something very hurtful to me on twitter yesterday I actually held back the really good ones oh, I'm sure you did.

Speaker 2: 58:57

I saw you boiling rob got home late yesterday. He was cranky, I was, so I was not inspired over twitter and I go.

Speaker 1: 59:00

Should I respond? I got this will start a war right now. Let me just let him cool down. I know rob's in one of today.

Speaker 2: 59:03

He was cranky, I was, so I was not inspired over twitter and I go. Should I respond that, god, this will start a war right now, let me just let him cool down. I know rob's in one of his melancholic thumbs, so just let him let him do his thing. So, all right, so we're gonna go over to locals. Uh, christian, you're gonna hang, still right? Yep, okay, awesome, all right, guys, if you are not a local subscriber, please come over there. That's where we have the actual conversations that we can't have over on youtube.

Speaker 2: 59:22

Matt, father jason, we love you guys. Actually, what I, what I do, what I did, I actually uh, donated to, uh, holy protection shrineorg, which is father jason's trying to build a marion shrine. So I I went on his site and I donated to it. I think that is actually the way out of all of these different disagreements that we're all having between each other. It's just run to Our Lady and he's trying to build a shrine to Our Lady and I want to help that happen in any way possible. I have no ill will towards Matt or Father Jason.

Speaker 1: 59:56

I honestly think they're, except for Matt never having him on.

Speaker 2: 1:00:00

Oh, stop, that's fine.

Speaker 1: 1:00:02

I don't see how join the club.

Speaker 3: 1:00:03

Join the club, anthony he follows me on twitter. Now does he follow you on twitter?

Speaker 2: 1:00:10

yeah, matt follows me on twitter. I mean matt, me and matt have each other's phone number. I actually texted matt before this show and and sent him the screenshot. I said, listen, I I want to handle this charitably, this conversation after making me change the thumbnail well, because I knew the conversation was actually going to be about.

Speaker 2: 1:00:27

Like you're. Yeah, I knew we were going to discuss just war, but I knew the main conversation was going to be about woke right. So rob originally didn't watch the interview, right, no, I didn't. So he heard me talking about it with him. I was like talking about the just war stuff and I think rob thought that's where the conversation was going to mainly be. But but I thought woke right was more of more important of an issue for people to understand what the origins of that term is. Who's the one spouting it, and not just that. I mean, if you see the people backing it, you want to pull up some of Abby's tweets, I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:00:58

I actually have them pulled up.

Speaker 2: 1:01:00

It's some of the most heinous stuff I've ever seen. Like Christian Zionism is evil guys. I'm sorry, it just is like the christian zionists. The palestinian society cheers dead israeli babies. I don't care if their children die. They deserve like, I'm afraid to read this on air.

Speaker 3: 1:01:18

Well, I mean you're it's, it's, it's pro-zionism, so it should be fine to read on there yeah, yeah, you don't care about that.

Speaker 1: 1:01:24

They deserve to watch.

Speaker 3: 1:01:26

I mean change the Palestinian to you know and the opposite to the opposite. I mean, guys, I hate to play that game with you.

Speaker 2: 1:01:33

If you're listening on audio. I'm sorry I won't even read the rest of that, because it's something so heinous that they'll tag your video on there are no civilians in gaza. Hamas has drafted everyone down to the newest babies, they rejoice and the children they shove into the line of fire die because it's their most powerful weapon again, like it's just it's just so crazy.

Speaker 3: 1:01:55

The 1.2k likes to 6.2k replies is insane on that ratio.

Speaker 2: 1:02:00

look, and even the fact that matt Matt's comments on his video got 9 to 1 ratio against is a telling sign that I don't think this is an easy. I see the tide shifting on this issue. Like I said, I have absolutely no ill will towards either of those guys. If they ever want to have a conversation privately, I would absolutely be open to it. Same thing we're going to jump over to the other side guys.

Speaker 5: 1:02:24

They ever want to have a conversation privately.

Speaker 2: 1:02:25

I would absolutely be open to it. Yeah, same thing. So, all right, we're going to jump over to the other side. Guys, join us over there. If you guys aren't local subscribers, you're missing out on the best part of the show. Rob, take us out. Okay, I'm just going to remove subscribe to traditional Thomas on YouTube. Scholastic Answers Not yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm mixing it up.

Speaker 3: 1:02:43

Yeah, don't send them in there. Yeah, don't send them in there.

Speaker 2: 1:02:46

Screw you, christian. Yeah, traditional Thomas' next channel Scholastic Answers. Christian's channel. Subscribe to both of those.

Speaker 1: 1:02:57

We'll see you guys over at Locals.

Speaker 2: 1:03:04

Okay, give me just a second to remove these Wrong Thomas Dan wrong tone is that okay, we're just on locals are we all? We're on locals now yeah, we're on locals I want to bring up okay optical, optical out, no more optical now okay.

Speaker 2: 1:03:18

So right off the bat I have to say to todd, todd, todd's, like I was where anthony was two ago. Now I'm starting to realize all this stuff is true. No, todd, I'm where you are. I promise I'm trying to. This goes very much into the Nick clip we're going to play, because Nick is kind of losing his mind right now because he thinks there's Nick Fuentes, nick Fuentes, he thinks there's controlled opposition in where the conversation is allowed to go right now. So he's seeing Martyr Maid and Dave Smith and a lot of guys, even like Tim Pool. They're the ones kind of setting the new parameters of the conversation and he's got a good point like he's not wrong.

Speaker 1: 1:04:04

These guys are so like yeah, but murder made started years ago with his very first series absolutely, and but today martyr may put out a sub stack like the crying anti-semitism and also like dave's.

Speaker 2: 1:04:22

Dave smith still is like like no, no, no, israel has a right to exist. They have a right to defend themselves. I'm just saying, like he's right about the conversation having like these are the acceptable parameters to speak about this stuff on. But alright, let's just play this clip and then we'll go from there.

Speaker 6: 1:04:45

I smell a psyop, I detect I'm sensing a disturbance. There is a major effort underway to undercut the mass awakening of the people, of Americans, about Israel, race, jewish power, all these things that years ago were totally taboo. People that discussed them were radioactive, as you know, there is a mass awakening happening, millions and millions of people, I think largely thanks to TikTok and thanks to X and the liberalization of both of those platforms, as well as events October 7th and many of the lies from the past 10 years starting to crumble. People are really discovering the truth and I've noticed just today, but especially in the past few weeks and months, there seems to be a concerted, organized effort underway to undercut the credibility of the people that are amplifying those types of ideas People that are talking about race, about Israel, about Jewish power, in ways that are not approved, and we know what that means. People that are talking about these ideas which are called politically incorrect or called hateful, bigoted, racist, anti-Semitic. There is a concerted effort underway to attack the credibility of the people pushing those ideas and the credibility of those ideas themselves. Simultaneously, there is an effort underway to astroturf people who sound like they're saying what we're saying and are approved, but are not actually saying what we're saying, and what I mean by that is they have correctly identified that someone like myself is independent, outside control.

Speaker 6: 1:06:44

Someone like myself. I'm a legitimate nationalist, legitimately questioning what is considered unquestionable or undeniable Whether we should support Israel, whether there is such a thing as Judeo-Christianity, whether we should have Jewish people that don't believe in Jesus, don't like Jesus, whether they should be in power. Questioning whether we should have multiracialism. Is that desirable, is it beneficial, is it even workable? You'll have someone like myself who is a legitimate alternative to the system. They attack my credibility and simultaneously they're offering up another option, which is an approved option, and they do their best to sound like they're saying what I'm saying, but they're not really. They sound like they're saying the same thing and they're promoted and elevated, but they're only sounding like they're saying it. They're not actually saying it. So they'll say well, we don't really like that. We give Israel foreign aid, but should Israel exist? Oh, absolutely. And you know, are Jewish people in general, too, supportive of Israel? Well, no, we can't generalize at all. Should we live in a Christian country? Should we have?

Speaker 2: 1:08:00

multiracialism, of course. Okay, he's not wrong, they're not saying the same thing. He's saying and he's talking about some very important things. But I only go back to when Francis comes into the church and he wants to get some things done. It's kind of incrementally done. He doesn't just come in and start throwing things out.

Speaker 2: 1:08:24

It's like when you want to change the conversation, you can't just say what Nick is saying, because you get flushed out of the conversation, and you can't just say what Nick is saying because you get flushed out of the conversation and nobody wants to talk about it. It was like me trying to talk to my father yesterday, trying to incrementally bring him over to my side, right. So even tonight on our YouTube show, the things we were talking about Nick would hear something like that and he'd be like these guys are not actually saying what I'm saying. No, because we're trying to get people who have never heard these ideas to start hearing these ideas and come around to see look, you have to start having the conversation somewhere. So I do think it's still good that Dave Smith is out there, because the conversation is completely different now than it was five years ago. And, yeah, the parameters are set, but think about how different they're set from where they were a few years back.

Speaker 3: 1:09:08

Are set, but think about how different they're set from where they were a few years back. Well, I think it's a slightly different question of whether it's something which is a positive, which I do think that somebody like, for example, tucker Carlson I mean Tucker Carlson, his reach is huge, it's massive, people don't realize how massive his reach actually is or even somebody like Donald Trump, we can say you know in many ways, donald Trump, like the image from 2016, where he was holding up the gay pride flag and it said like LGBT for Trump, yeah, no. We can in many ways say that these individuals as individuals, with their types of messages, are positive. But for me personally, is this something which is like astroturfed, like he's claiming? Is this something which is controlled opposition? I don't know. Nick's bringing forward circumstantial evidence and such, but I can't entirely be sure of whether this is something which is really meant to pump the brakes on the. The great awakening, you know, the, the great red pilling of, of, you know, young men especially.

Speaker 2: 1:10:13

No, but if you even start the conversation with, hey, let's not keep funding Israel's wars, that is a good thing, like that is a good thing.

Speaker 2: 1:10:23

Like I, I understand, like his, his gripe that he, he's like, like he's like, he wants to say, like israel has no right to exist. Now, I may agree with that, but that's not where the that's not how you can have that conversation like you just can't, like, it's not, nobody's going to hear that. So how about we start with? And you're not, and it's not going to accomplish anything, like you're not going to bring people around to your, to your, to your line of thinking. You're just going to get flushed out of the conversation and relegated to the corner and everybody's going to write you off as a conspiracy theorist. And I mean, they do. They do, father maudsley, they do it with nick, they do anybody that even touches the holocaust. That's it, you're out of the conversation but you do need both.

Speaker 1: 1:11:04

You need the people that feed them just a little to to get them interested, but when they're ready you do need people and you know how I feel about neg yeah, yeah, you need someone like that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying that conversation, you know you, you need both out there I think, yeah, I mean, I think they're both, they're both integral to like true Catholic action, like, for example, in some of the Catholic action that I do in North Dakota.

Speaker 3: 1:11:34

Like the actual politicians, you know, the actual people who are public, like you know, involved directly with the hands on power, those people to say a lot of the things that I, on the other hand, very publicly say, even in you know, a more public environment of discussions between various different Republicans in the state. Like it's completely fine for me to say that thing because I already have the label of like. Okay, I'm sort of ideological, I have an end in mind, like I'm a purist, like that's my role, I'm not running for public office, like'd never run for public office but that's not my role, that's not my job in Catholic action. So, yeah, you do need both. You need somebody, always kind of who is the reactionary pushing right, and then you kind of need, you need the trailblazers and then you need the settlers. Settlers are building the houses and you know-.

Speaker 1: 1:12:26

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What kind of settlers Are we talking about here?

Speaker 3: 1:12:29

Well, not those kind of settlers. And the trailblazers are definitely not Terrorists, but Israeli terrorists.

Speaker 2: 1:12:39

I think the trailblazers have shifted the conversation Is what I'm saying. I'm not just talking about Nick, I mean E Michael Jones. He's like Persona non grata in the Catholic world, but he's been talking about this for years and it got people to start looking at the conversation differently. Now you may not agree with everything he says I definitely don't agree with his take on liturgy and things like that but these people are important to the conversation because they do shift the Overton window. I feel like I think that this awakening and even the fact that these conversations are being had in public like I see some kind of providence behind it that it's like we would have never even been able to have these discussions a few years back. You would have just been shut out of the conversation completely. Even what we did on youtube tonight would have been unheard of in 2020, 2019 you'd have lost your channel yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3: 1:13:40

Um, that's actually like in the, in the sort of sphere of catholic influencers. It's kind of how I view somebody like matt frad. I view matt frad kind kind of like Tucker Carlson. He's a mainstream voice who's kind of like Father Mike Schmitz, kind of Bishop Aaron, although not as much, but people that, generally speaking, are going to bring forward. They're going to say the abortion is wrong, they're going to say the contraception is wrong, homosexuality is wrong. But like I do have my issues, like I'm a reactionary in the Catholic sphere in many ways, to where I think that in certain areas, you know, I want to push right, like I want to push hard right, and I think there's a role for me and I do think there's a role for them as well. Did I ever tell you, by the way of my conversation with E Michael Jones?

Speaker 2: 1:14:29

No, How'd that go?

Speaker 3: 1:14:30

So I was in South Bend, I was at Notre Dame speaking for a club. It's kind of funny because, like in my speech too, it was like I don't want to name the club because you know, even behind the locals window, you know, word can get out, yeah. But like I was in the speech speech, I mean I was going off on like how you know, sodomy should be criminalized, and you know I was. I was being very reactionary with how I spoke to these young catholic men who were right-wing and politically interested and somebody was like, oh, I know you, michael jones, like you got, I could set up a breakfast with you guys tomorrow. So I I had breakfast with him the next morning and the almost the entire time he was going off and on and on and on about the race thing and it was just awful it was, it was terrible. I would rather talk about the jews or it on, or like feminine, well, literally anything but the race thing.

Speaker 2: 1:15:23

It was very he's got a funny take on that right, like he's yeah, he, he doesn't. I think he's writing a book on it now. Like american identity and uh, guns, get your gun bible and whatever you know. But there is something to like white european identity there just is it's. You know, I mean, man, I'll tell you that some of the things I saw, like we were talking the other day, it's like the, the conversation about um. As, as an, as an american, your whole goal is to where can I make the most money without having to drive four hours to be near like I don't? How do I, how do I live far enough away from these people without having to drive four hours to work? Because it's I am in black communities?

Speaker 3: 1:16:21

yeah, have I told you about the, the county that I grew up in no, no, I think, I think I mentioned in public.

Speaker 3: 1:16:27

But I grew up in a county in Maryland it's called Carroll County and when my parents moved from Baltimore County to Carroll County, carroll County was like 98% white. It's about an hour-ish away from Baltimore, about an hour and a half away from DC. What's funny is the reason it was so white is because a all of the like, a lot of the people there, like you would expect it to be, you know, like farmers and stuff like that A lot of the people there were white collar. They all worked in DC and Baltimore but didn't want to live near DC and Baltimore. So they bought an expensive house in Carroll County and that's how it stayed almost entirely white, uh, while while also like having a having a sort of middle, middle, middle upper class culture to it.

Speaker 3: 1:17:11

But yeah, I mean the entire story of me, my upbringing, is basically, yeah, I'm the product of white flight. A lot of my family lived in Baltimore back before the civil rights era and it was a nice city to live in. And the civil rights era happens, white flight happens, black people moved in and they lamented a lot of the fact that I knew who were deployed into Baltimore during the Freddie Gray riots, to put down, you know, put down the riots. That's not something which is should be normal for us.

Speaker 2: 1:17:58

I live on Long Island, which is a suburb of New York City. I work in the city, I work in the Bronx, I work in Queens, I work in Brooklyn. My family was from Ozone Park, which is like South Queens, it's like where all the mob movies are from. It's like ozone park was an Italian neighborhood in Queens. It was like that's where you remember when the kid, the kid got in trouble for the hate crime. The black kid came into the neighborhood and he beat him up. Like while he was beating him up he used the N word and they put this kid in prison. Like he got because it was a hate crime Cause he threw the N word. Like the black kid was robbing cars in the neighborhood and he caught the kid robbing a car and he beat the crap out of him and dropped the N word when he was doing it and they drew the kid in prison for like 25 years because of it, hit him with a hate crime.

Speaker 2: 1:18:42

So my family too moved out of the city, got the hell away from them, had to, had to get out of the city. Now my commute to work is a two-hour ride home every day. It's crazy, because this is this. Is it really in new york it was. Robert moses started building projects so he built the highway system and he made parkways so that you couldn't get, like buses, under the bridges, so that people from the city couldn't bus out to long island. He built all these parkways all over long island so they couldn't get the riffraff from the city to come to Long Island so you could go and enjoy the Long Island beaches without the riffraff from the city and stuff. But it just progressively you had to go further and further away because things just keep. It's just crazy the whole dynamic.

Speaker 3: 1:19:23

I can't even conceive. Conceive honestly, like I, I have lost the consciousness, as an american, of thinking of a nice place as anything but like being far away from a city. Yeah, that's, that's what happened. It happened with my, my uh, my uh grandparents on the other side. They moved to a place you know about half an hour away from the city to get away from it, and it was nice. And then, you know, as time went, on.

Speaker 4: 1:19:52

It began another half an hour away and it's like now.

Speaker 3: 1:19:55

you know, I grew up. When I was growing up, as I said, it was 98% white. Now it's like 85% white and you know the the creep is starting to happen. And what's next for?

Speaker 2: 1:20:15

I'm next generation is going to move even further out. I made just a four-hour jump in one go. So true, but but there is also, especially after covid, with all the cities being on fire like that, there was a mass migration of white people moving to rural america because they were like I gotta get the hell away from this stuff. My cousin lives down in kentucky now and he told me he's like everybody in his community, is a transplant, like his entire FSSP parish are people from other parts of the country who came to Kentucky to escape the mayhem in the cities, and they're all just like. They all had this like inner calling from God to get the hell away from the cities, because they sensed something was coming. You know, which scares me because I haven't gotten out of here yet yeah, I mean it's it's same here.

Speaker 3: 1:20:52

I I don't, I don't live in a like uh, I live like 45 minutes away from charlotte, but it's like even there was a uh, you know individual who happened to. You know, I have cameras around the property and such. I saw an individual walking through my yard of of that, uh, of that demographic, and you know I have.

Speaker 5: 1:21:12

I have?

Speaker 3: 1:21:13

uh, I have a pregnant wife, I have two kids, it's um you know I can't do that now, uh, but I mean, uh, it's like, uh, that that's always in the back of my mind. I mean if it was a normal white guy and walking through my yard I probably would look weird but it wouldn't bother me. But now it's like, okay, well, put a fence in. Do I move? What the heck am I supposed to do?

Speaker 2: 1:21:42

How old are you kids?

Speaker 3: 1:21:44

So my son is three and a half about to turn four and my daughter just turned two, and then my wife is due and a half about to turn four and my daughter just turned two, and then my wife is due in.

Speaker 2: 1:21:52

August. Okay, Now Rob, how old is Maddie now? Maddie's six, maddie's six. Okay, so the discussion. We're going to shift gears a little bit. So the discussion. I just posed the question how old should your kids be before you let them watch the passion? And should it be different? For oh, let me just see something, let me hold on guys. Oh, father jason said he'd come on with us. Father jason said he'll come on with us did he message you on twitter or something? No, he texted me, and he texted me Father Jason's number.

Speaker 1: 1:22:27

Oh, Matt did Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:22:35

I'm sorry guys.

Speaker 1: 1:22:35

Just give me a sec here. While you text back. Someone says if Christian ever has a defensive gun, use. This clip will be played at the trial.

Speaker 3: 1:22:47

I know, I know which is. This is why I hesitate. I know I know which is uh, you know, this is why I hesitate. My uh, you know, you know. You know how those, uh, those public uh prosecutors are. They don't find anything to nail a white boy on a defense charge.

Speaker 1: 1:23:02

Yeah, if I decided to carry a 10 millimeter instead of nine millimeter, well then, I'm screwed.

Speaker 3: 1:23:06

So if I text, you, delete the stream you know, it's stream.

Speaker 2: 1:23:12

Okay, so I just met Father Jason Sharon and I think we're going to get him on.

Speaker 1: 1:23:15

You just met him, you just texted him.

Speaker 2: 1:23:18

Yeah, like Matt introduced me to him. Now I posed a question on Twitter how old do you think your kids should be before you let them watch the Passion, and should it be different for boys and girls? Rob had an interesting take which I didn't even consider, and then the so, rob, throw, throw your take out because I thought it was interesting.

Speaker 1: 1:23:38

I didn't consider it, but go ahead and throw yours so I guess first off I would say, yeah, I mean, you got to use prudence right, and it's going to vary by kid, but my general rule of thumb is like if your kid is old enough or capable of committing mortal sin, they should also be old enough to understand what that sin does to Christ. Right, that's kind of like my general rule. If I think my son is able to commit mortal sin, he should see in the most accurate way we have possible of really what that sin cost Christ and really then see how much Christ loves him, because that's really what it is in the end and I don't think you can really understand that love unless you really understand the cost of sin so rob originally texted uh me before we even had, before I even shouted out on twitter.

Speaker 2: 1:24:37

The reason I shouted out on twitter? Because rob said I think I'm gonna let maddie watch the passion this year and my initial instinct was might want to wait till the age of reason.

Speaker 1: 1:24:45

Um, because that, and that's just because that's what I chose to do, but that's not doesn't mean I'm right, it just that's what I chose to do my thinking is that he, he's not like yeah, he's not seven, right, so he hasn't gone through confession and communion, but I I think he's at the age of reason for him personally yeah, you'll know your own son for sure, right like you, you, you do know if your own son is capable when he does something wrong.

Speaker 1: 1:25:10

I see, once he realizes right, once it clicks in his head, I I can see how much he despises what he did. And it's not because even like, if you know, I'll see that hit him before I even tell him like I'm upset at you or I'm disappointed in you, I see it just hit him by itself and I'm like, well, I'm pretty sure that means he's, he's, he's at that age of reason. Then so.

Speaker 2: 1:25:34

So my son, I let him watch it at seven, but I also told my son there was no Santa Claus at six. You know, like my son was pretty advanced where I could tell him stuff and like he was very but my daughters I let my older daughter watch it when she was 10 because I kind of knew she wasn't ready for it, and even when she watched it at 10 she had horrible nightmares.

Speaker 3: 1:25:56

She could be saying women are less rational yeah, less rational, more sensitive that is, that is a distinctively feminine uh trait, though, and I think that's something important in in raising daughters. Um, like I mean that, that I think that's something important in raising daughters. I mean that's not even like, oh, like my like. We're not in the public sphere, really in the public sphere now.

Speaker 2: 1:26:17

We're kind of behind the yeah well, that's why I figured this out.

Speaker 3: 1:26:19

Yeah, it's not me saying like oh base, you know, like women defective in, well, defective is kind of a.

Speaker 2: 1:26:27

That's in well.

Speaker 5: 1:26:27

Defective is kind of a bad word putting it.

Speaker 3: 1:26:29

You know less apt, less ordered, towards thinking or reasoning in this way. But yeah, I think for me personally, I'm very convinced from my study of the tradition that when it comes to proper prayer and proper meditation that, just like in any other sphere of knowledge, we start with the sort of material and sensible and imaginative faculty. We start there by forming an image and then from forming an image we're able to reason from there to think of the significance of that thing.

Speaker 3: 1:27:06

We're not like angels, where we just reason in a purely spiritual or immaterial way. So I think, with my kids, once they get to the age in which they are going to be able to, and be obliged to, meditate on the passion, then they're going to need to be able to form those images of the passion. That's obviously going to come through things like the crucifix but it's going to, I think, come in a more efficacious way through watching something like the Passion of Christ. My parents we had a movie. It was called the Miracle Maker.

Speaker 3: 1:27:42

It was kind of like a kiddish version of the events of Holy Week, a kiddish version of um of the events of Holy week. And uh, we, we watched that from you know before, uh, probably, uh, since I was born, we were watching that every single uh good Friday. So I, I do have um, uh for me, like there was something like that in which I was able to like in my own way there's a, a, there's a, there's a lego passion that's oh my goodness so if you have like a four-year-old, and you want to introduce them to it yeah, well, my three-year-old.

Speaker 3: 1:28:16

My three-year-old's an autist, so my three-year-old is like boiling pasta at three years old, so he's, I don't know what to do with him, man.

Speaker 1: 1:28:28

My six-year-old likes to lecture me on black holes. Strange matter quarks graviton.

Speaker 2: 1:28:38

Jason's 11-year-old tells him Jason made a joke to his family the other day. He's like, yeah, we didn't land on the moon. His son goes that's what I'm talking about. It's awesome to his family the other day.

Speaker 3: 1:28:49

He's like, yeah, we didn't land on the moon His son goes.

Speaker 2: 1:28:51

That's what I'm talking about. That kid's got good instincts, jay-z Good boy. A few people pointed out that Our Lady at Fatima showed hell to Jacinta and Lucia and Francisco.

Speaker 3: 1:29:07

And Francisco was only what like six or five six or seven, something like that yeah, I've actually heard uh more uh moderate, uh modern minded priests say use this as an example of something about fatima that they don't believe because they couldn't imagine that a uh young child would be shown images of hell. But it's like you know, if a seven-year-old can go to hell which a seven-year-old can go to hell, then certainly a seven-year-old can meditate on that possibility.

Speaker 2: 1:29:40

I don't know why that would be a problem. Well, I grew up in a house where, like, god's mercy was extremely pronounced, and my mom did teach us about hell, though, but she was like so cautious about it and like didn't want to like. But I found that just like telling your children the truth, and even from a young age, like even when they were five or six, teaching them about mortal sin, and mortal sin separates us from god's love, and that is where you just have eternal separation from god, and that is what hell like really explaining it to them when they're young.

Speaker 1: 1:30:11

They grab it, maddie. Uh, so we want. I brought him to the that stupid movie, uh, the minecraft minecraft movie. Yeah, yeah, you know exactly what I'm talking about yes, I've run with the minecraft movie and after the movie he goes. Dad is the guy who played steve catholic. I'm like no, not at all. He goes. We need to pray for him so he can get to heaven he had almost any like any new person.

Speaker 1: 1:30:38

He's like are they catholic? I'm like you know, a lot of times it's no. He's like we need to pray so they can get to heaven.

Speaker 2: 1:30:43

I'm like you are, I uh I have a habit of like if in my car, if somebody comes to mind, anybody in my life, like if I just have like, even like a friend from high school, like whatever memory I pray a Hail Mary for that person. Pray that when I get to heaven one day some random person that I hadn't thought about in 20 years comes to me and goes your Hail Mary helped in my salvation. Somehow I feel like that's building treasure up in heaven.

Speaker 3: 1:31:18

That's awesome. Yeah, I always try to be cautious over the negative affections that I have towards people and, specifically when I understand that I have negative affections towards people, I try to like immediately pray for that individual and then pray for my own soul, because it is. It is like a, it's a spiritual combat, it's a war out there and so very easily, especially with the devil prowls around.

Speaker 2: 1:31:47

Yeah, especially with the internet. Yeah, if he says, evenony's prayers for others are somehow self-serving well, that's of course they are, and I just blew all the treasure because I told you guys about it. That's the way you're done.

Speaker 3: 1:32:03

You're done. I'm now. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna pray for all the people that anthony prayed for. So those people are going to Go up to me and be like thank you, christian, for praying For me. Anthony blew it.

Speaker 6: 1:32:12

With me. I needed you.

Speaker 2: 1:32:17

Oh, man, yeah, the youth these days, man, I'll tell you.

Speaker 3: 1:32:24

It's Absolutely Scary.

Speaker 2: 1:32:27

But that Paul Singer article I read it's it's absolutely. It's scary of that. But that Paul Singer article I read was the most devious thing I've ever seen. Like this guy goes around and he'll just leave a country in poverty while he makes money off these things, these things and that and what I. What I would have wanted to say on the main show about that is just the the, the idea of making money through others suffering. It's like that.

Speaker 2: 1:32:56

It kind of goes back to like it goes back to matt's conversation about pornography. Like in the, in their mind there's no sins of the heart, like it really doesn't matter. Nick is doing a show about anthony traditional tomas. Catholic youtube will send many people to hell. Is that an old one?

Speaker 1: 1:33:14

no, he did that today he did that today.

Speaker 2: 1:33:17

Oh boy, um yeah, just the, the idea that there's like sins of the heart and things like that. They don't, they don't have any concept of that and that, especially when you get into, like some of the talmudic stuff, it's it's extremely like it.

Speaker 3: 1:33:32

Read the read saint thomas's letter to margaret of flanders. It's a very jewish thing to off of the backs of other people suffering, to profit off of that. I mean, look at, look at the entire, and this is something I bring to people and this is something which was like thunderously preached from the pulpits of catholic churches in america in the 30s and 40s. Um is the fact that, when it comes to the system of usury, when it comes to the system of the world banks, this is just evil. I mean, people are, and this is especially more pronounced now with the uh fact that people just don't own anything.

Speaker 3: 1:34:06

Uh, people, people are being put into debt slavery and this debt slavery is being secured and financed and supported by the US government and nobody like. This is the thing. If you talk to 90% of people on the street, you're like okay, well, either you are in debt slavery, you know somebody else is in debt slavery. Would you, would you support, you know, using the means of governance in order to break this power of debt slavery over so many different people? And there are a lot of people out there, most people who would. This would be a bipartisan issue. This would be something in which people would be very supportive over, but apparently that's just something that never gains traction. I wonder why.

Speaker 2: 1:34:50

It will never be allowed to. And that's how the conversation started, with my dad actually talking about usury and I was trying to explain to him how they have put us into slavery. It's this whole system Throughout all of Christian history. It was like it was completely unheard of to like usury was one of the mortal sins constantly preached about. If you look at Dante's Divine Comedy, people that practice usury are in the same circle of hell as sodomites, because you're trying to take something infertile and make it fertile. It's like it's one of the most demonic things in the world. And if you get yourself into crazy debt, with interest I mean, you're punishing not just yourself but your family. It is slavery, it's crazy.

Speaker 3: 1:35:41

And the thing is, this is the reason why there is such a concentration of wealth as well. This is the reason why there is such a concentration of wealth as well, because I was explaining this to, actually, my younger sister and I was like, look, you have to realize that having true wealth isn't about having money in the bank. It's about owning things, properties that I own as quickly as possible, without incurring much interest. If I can pay off my car, if I can own things and I don't have liquid cash at hand, I am much more wealthy than it's funny. The homeless man with five bucks in his pocket is more wealthy than half of Americans.

Speaker 1: 1:36:27

Because we're all enslaved to debt.

Speaker 2: 1:36:29

Yeah, I have a $380,000 mortgage. It's just my car payments and it's just crazy how much debt we all have.

Speaker 3: 1:36:39

Yeah, exactly, and I mean that's something that I've been very conscious about with myself and I've tried to talk with many people about this.

Speaker 3: 1:36:48

But it's just so ingrained in the system and especially because a lot of people, we've kind of lost this idea of inheritance. Like, when I get to a certain stage in life, I receive my inheritance and that is the seed money of me being able to start a family, buy the things that I need, own those things and then over time, you know, I'm actually building wealth to where now it's like every 18-year-old in the country, just because of the and it's obviously not to, you know, place blame on many of the people of like the, you know, Gen X generation, because this goes back much further than that. It's like many of the 18-year-olds. It's just like what's the first thing you do when you turn 18? You get student loans. Yeah, exactly, you get a car loan. You know, when you want to start a family, you get a mortgage and almost nobody is actually, or even the worst thing is, I've met so many people. They have like they're renting and they're renting these apartments out for like two, three grand.

Speaker 2: 1:37:50

They're renting these apartments out and just dumping money, uh, into it, that's just never gonna get back my father was talking about doing a reverse mortgage soon and I'm like you're not even gonna leave us your freaking house like are you?

Speaker 6: 1:38:02

kidding me, you're not gonna get a little got nine kids.

Speaker 2: 1:38:08

Got nine kids. You're not gonna let us whack up a couple hundred grand after you're gone. What are you doing, bro? Like it's just that mentality.

Speaker 5: 1:38:15

It's like you said.

Speaker 2: 1:38:16

Like my son is 19 now, and because I never got an inheritance, like you're right, I should have had like a hundred grand saved to give my son to get his life started.

Speaker 3: 1:38:25

You know not when I die die when he turns, when he's old enough to like get, get a career going or something, and now people are lucky if it's their grandparents, uh, because the way in which like inheritance work, like if you get 10 grand from grandma when she dies, like that's considered good. But historically you know, uh, you know what the average american's two-month wage like two months of wages is not exactly like a massive inheritance. Historically and really the entire system is just disastrous. And the sort of free market thinkers of the non-woke rights I mean these people just have no like. You're talking about lacking compassion. I mean the most compassionate thing you can do for your fellow Americans is think about the way in which the Jewish bankers have completely destroyed an entire nation by placing it into debt slavery. International banking has just ruined the entire way in which generations relate to one another, the entire ways in which we're able to start our families and become independent, not slaves to anyone else.

Speaker 2: 1:39:33

Yeah, that's it. My dad is cooked. Don't worry, I straightened the right out with that last night. You're out of your mind. You're not going to get a reverse mortgage. You're moving in with me and selling your house.

Speaker 1: 1:39:42

I guarantee you called someone about reverse mortgages today I told him.

Speaker 2: 1:39:46

I said you're would you selling your house, moving in with me, and you're putting that money in my bank account. You're not selling, you're not going at the reverse mortgage. Are you out of your mind?

Speaker 3: 1:39:55

like it's awful. My, my dad, one time mentioned a reverse mortgage. Like what? What the like? Why? Why would you get a reverse mortgage? That's just like the only people who you know. The only people for whom this is advantageous is bankers. It's not advantageous for your average American.

Speaker 2: 1:40:14

They wouldn't give it to you if it was in your benefit. They'd never do it if it was in your benefit.

Speaker 3: 1:40:18

That's true. I mean, that's like, possibly one of like that's one of the most Jewish things to invent, like it takes an evil mind to invent reverse mortgage. An evil mind to invent reverse mortgage like what? Like what? Who? Who was thinking one time and is you know in his lair, you know somewhere in new york city, you know the, the 50, 50th floor of some, uh, skyscraper. We know who is sitting back thinking and we're like oh, I have a great idea. What if we do this thing called reverse mortgage? You?

Speaker 2: 1:40:42

got 10 years 10 years left to live, we'll reverse your mortgage and we'll pay you to live in your house and then we'll collect all the equity in your house from doing it for you and they know the equity. In that I mean just in the last since I bought my house. I think I've been in my house 15 years.

Speaker 1: 1:40:58

My house has more than doubled in value since I bought it yeah, it's crazy, is growing old just realizing that tyler durden was right about everything?

Speaker 2: 1:41:06

everything you man, you're too young to know that one. Fight Club.

Speaker 3: 1:41:12

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, the main character in Fight Club. Yes, I've watched Fight Club. That movie has a twist in it. I've never had the plot explained to me before I watched it. In the end I was just like what the heck? Bruce Willis was dead.

Speaker 2: 1:41:27

The whole time Get out of here and then like in the end, you know, I was just like what, the heck wait, bruce willis get out of here. Like what?

Speaker 3: 1:41:35

it was like last year that I watched this. Nobody, nobody told me about it.

Speaker 2: 1:41:38

I was like I did, like a series of tweets from movies from 20 years ago with surprise twists. Act like I just saw the movie for the first time. Wait, bruce willis is dead the whole time tyler durden is, whatever the hell he was luke's father yeah all right, we're gonna wrap this one up.

Speaker 2: 1:41:59

Um, our schedule this week is monday, wednesday, because we don't want to interrupt anybody's triduum. So, um, christian, thank you for coming. You, you added a lot to the show. I knew having yeah, I knew having a Thomist on would help us. Um, why didn't you stream it to your channel too?

Speaker 3: 1:42:15

Oh, I did. I did stream it to my channel.

Speaker 2: 1:42:17

Oh, okay, I didn't know. I didn't know if we were both on there. Um, yeah, so uh, yeah, we'll get you back on, man, I, I always enjoy having you on. Yeah, absolutely All right. So we will see you guys on Wednesday. I have no idea what we're going to talk about yet. Maybe something will happen. I'm going to try and set up a conversation with Father Jason, sharon, and we'll get him on soon, because he Matt said all right. So what Matt said was Father Jason said he's open to coming on If you're open to chat with him. Thought your show tonight was reasonable and not at all inflammatory.

Speaker 2: 1:42:47

Thank you, so and that's that's what we were hoping for, right? Like we just wanted to kind of have the conversation be, be charitable to him, but just kind of point out, like some of the problems with this ideology, with jumping into that you know framework, so, all right, man, we'll do this, do this. Uh, we'll do this again soon. Thank you, christian. Yep, god bless, I'll talk to you guys. Take us out, rob, thank you.