The Death of Anglicanism and the Rise of Gen Z (and Dire Wolves)

Something unexpected is happening in Catholic churches around the world. While mainstream narratives suggest declining religious participation, a quiet revolution is brewing in the most surprising demographic: Gen Z. 

We're witnessing a remarkable surge in young Catholics embracing traditional liturgical practices, with recent data showing Latin Mass communities growing despite official Vatican restrictions. The Atlantic reports that these communities have been relegated to school gymnasiums and storage rooms, yet continue to attract devoted followers – particularly young ones. Studies show 44% of Latin Mass attendees are under 45, compared to just 20% in regular parishes.

This trend isn't limited to America. In the UK, Catholics now outnumber Anglicans two-to-one among Gen Z, part of a pattern observed across all age groups. The Bible Society's research reveals Christianity growing after decades of decline, driven specifically by young adults seeking community, meaning, and connection in an age of social media fragmentation and mental health challenges.

What's drawing the younger generation to ancient liturgical forms? For many, it's the reverence, beauty, and historical connection missing in contemporary worship. As one attendee simply put it: "This is a place where we more easily meet God." Others value the ceremonial aspects, Gregorian chant, periods of silence, and emphasis on sacrifice that characterize traditional practices.

This phenomenon appears to follow what scholars call the "strict church hypothesis" – religious groups tend to thrive when membership demands commitment and sacrifice. In our increasingly secular world, perhaps the future of faith lies paradoxically in its ancient past.

What do you think is driving this traditional religious revival among young people? Share your thoughts in the comments below.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Friendly Banter
• 4:50 Connor's Writing Projects and Catholic Fiction
• 18:20 The Atlantic Article on Latin Mass Restrictions
• 29:07 Catholic Resurgence Among Gen Z
• 40:20 Dire Wolves and Genetic Engineering Ethics
• 55:38 Cultural Challenges and Race Discussion
• 1:10:07 Faith, Identity and Modern Society
• 1:59:51 Closing Thoughts and Next Episode Preview

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:56

Sancte, sancte, amare morti. Decadastros In tes per a verum. Babies wear diapers and I'm not a baby. And you're wearing a diaper. Well, babies wear diapers and you're wearing a diaper. Well, I'm not a baby. Yes, you are. No, I'm not. I mean that you're wearing a baby. Yes, you are. No, I'm not, I mean it. You're wearing a diaper. I'm not a baby. You're wearing a diaper. I'm not a baby, though. Yes, you're wearing a diaper. Well, I'm not a baby. You're wearing a diaper. I'm not. Well, I'm not even a baby, though, but you're wearing a diaper.

Speaker 2: 2:02

You can't say but that's not a word, I didn't say real, but Just because but just for kids, dude, this freaking video is too funny, man, it needs to grow up live, uh, live. View of dave smith talking with uh douglas murray right there okay, yeah because, murray probably has to never mind got to tweet that.

Speaker 3: 2:31

That is a gem of a tweet. That is a gem of a tweet. You have to post that video and say live video of Douglas Murray arguing with Dave Smith.

Speaker 2: 2:40

Yes, douglas Murray, so accurate.

Speaker 4: 2:43

That kid could be a senator. He's a good debater.

Speaker 3: 2:47

It's just funny because so many people misunderstood. Like I said, this is every argument between a man and a woman for all the time, and the women were jumping in and they were like, but she's right, that's not the point. Anyway, she's the one that literally made the claim she laid the terms. So she says babies wear diapers and I'm not a baby, but you're wearing a diaper. But I'm not a baby, but you're wearing a diaper, I'm not even a baby. Then she appeals to emotion. She says you can't say body's a bad word.

Speaker 3: 3:30

She pokes him too. Yeah, she pokes him. It's just every fight with a woman it's my. Me and my wife have had fights where we can be arguing about an issue and then I'm wrong because I said something I shouldn't have. Not about the issue itself. I was right about the issue, but I said something I shouldn't have and that now becomes the argument. Yeah, you said something I shouldn't have and that now becomes the argument. Yeah, you said but I didn't mean, but that's how it'd be, oh, women, you're so sick.

Speaker 3: 4:01

So we are, we okay. So for anybody that is new to the show and does not know who Connor is, connor is a longtime friend of the show. When Rob and I started the podcast, Connor was in a group with us. It was us Connor, angela, erickson and Tradman, jason and Mark.

Speaker 2: 4:24

That traitor, jason, tonight, can you believe him?

Speaker 3: 4:27

Yeah, he's going on the podcast. We asked him for a whole month.

Speaker 2: 4:30

Can you do trivia this night, can you do? No, I'm not available that night, and then suddenly he's available on. He's going on. He asked me for a whole month, can you? Can you do trivia this night? Can you know I'm not available that night and then suddenly he's available for Chris whenever he wants.

Speaker 3: 4:37

So he went on Crash.

Speaker 4: 4:42

Cannon.

Speaker 5: 4:43

What is that?

Speaker 4: 4:44

It's a new show, I think.

Speaker 5: 4:45

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 4:46

Yeah, there's a couple of like Gen Z kids that watch our show and they're starting podcasts.

Speaker 2: 4:54

So we've been trying to help them out a little bit. I think Chris is literally only two years younger than me.

Speaker 5: 4:57

That's not Gen Z, he's in his 40s.

Speaker 3: 5:00

He's Rob's age, but I say Rob's Gen Z too.

Speaker 5: 5:07

You're talking to two Gen Zers and you're calling Rob one.

Speaker 3: 5:12

Dude, my son. Everybody's posting that video of the kids going to see the Pokemon. You are such a boomer. Yeah, minecraft. I never played Minecraft.

Speaker 2: 5:27

I never watched Pokemon either it came out right when, at the age where I was too old for it, but I have played it with my kids. Dang, you are old Rob.

Speaker 5: 5:37

I never cared for it, I never tried it.

Speaker 2: 5:40

I saw the movie on opening night with the boys and it was the absolute worst movie I've ever seen. The script was written by AI, but AI from two years ago when they wrote the script.

Speaker 1: 5:50

So it was miserable, but you know what the boy the like.

Speaker 2: 5:56

The boys loved it and it wasn't woke, so whatever.

Speaker 3: 5:59

I get Okay. So my son goes at 10 30 at night and the theater is loaded with kids between like 15 and 23 or 24.

Speaker 2: 6:10

Like I was the oldest person in that movie theater, by 10 years at least.

Speaker 3: 6:15

He shows me videos. Every single time Jack Black says a line, the theater erupts and they repeat the line. It is the weirdest, freaking thing I've ever seen.

Speaker 5: 6:26

It's like the in-brain run what happened? Don't they throw stuff too?

Speaker 4: 6:31

Yeah, like popcorn and stuff around your ones.

Speaker 3: 6:33

Yeah, but the police were called like screaming and stuff like that. Yeah, I did see like there was video like somebody called the cops and stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 6:42

But like, yeah, the theater I went to, everyone cheered, but that was it.

Speaker 3: 6:45

No one threw anything well, my son said it's like it was like the perfect nostalgia berry. You know it's like remember berries, that's all. It was like the perfect nostalgia Barry. You know it's like remember Barry, that's all it is. It's just nostalgia for Gen Z kids who grew up playing Minecraft and they get to go see the stupid little references to their childhood.

Speaker 2: 7:02

It was kind of why Stranger Things worked for our generation, at least initially.

Speaker 3: 7:08

Stranger Things is a genuinely good show, though.

Speaker 2: 7:11

Yes, that is true. At least the first season was.

Speaker 3: 7:15

I would say it's more like Sharknado oh god, not with the nostalgia part, but it's so bad, it's good. There's some cult classics that are Just so horribly bad, but you're like, this movie rules how the audience responds to Jack Black as a Novus Ordo priest's dream.

Speaker 2: 7:31

Some cult classics that are just so horribly bad. But you're like this movie rules. You know How's the audience response to Jack Black as a Novus Ordo priest's dream.

Speaker 5: 7:39

I'm always late to. Whatever the thing is, you're not missing much. Connor, I'm always late or I never get there, and I don't care.

Speaker 4: 7:49

I've always felt like the odd one out, because I grew up watching john wayne and I still watch john wayne.

Speaker 2: 7:54

I'm just this old soul who has like you come on our show with thursday and geek out about mash for exactly what exactly? So it's like I know what minecraft is, my friends played it, but I never played it.

Speaker 5: 8:08

That's a good, good analogy yeah, yeah, I also have watched mash. Not all of it, but I've watched a good amount.

Speaker 3: 8:17

It's been a while later now, why did you watch mash, though? Like what, even like, so like when I was a kid when I was a kid growing up. Um, even in, like my, my my early teen years to late teen years, I would come home and on channel 11, you would have cheers, seinfeld like there would be the Frazier and it would be like a list of shows and then you get the honeymoon.

Speaker 3: 8:39

So like I've seen the honeymooners every single episode. But that was because it was just on late night TV and I would just be up watching it. But, like, what made you guys watch MASH?

Speaker 5: 8:47

Well for me, I never had control over the remote. I was the youngest of four, so I never had control of the remote until high school. So what I watched had nothing to do with me.

Speaker 4: 9:01

Yeah, yeah, I. It was essentially just my parents in the beginning. My parents watched it and I just really enjoyed the story, and as I got older I kept watching it on my own, so much so that I became such a mash nerd that for my high school senior trip I drove up highway one in california on the west coast, and near the beginning of highway one is the original mash film site on fox ranch. So I went there for my uh graduation trip and, uh, it was amazing now isn't.

Speaker 3: 9:28

Mash, doesn't take place in world war ii. They make like naz Nazi jokes and stuff.

Speaker 5: 9:32

The Korean War, oh the Korean War. I never watched it.

Speaker 2: 9:35

You're thinking of Hogan's Heroes.

Speaker 3: 9:36

Hogan's Heroes and they make like Nazi jokes in it and stuff. Right, nick, who's your?

Speaker 5: 9:41

favorite leader or superior officer. We're not doing this. We're not talking about MASH tonight. I'm ending this conversation now. I've never seen the show. You guys may as well be speaking a different language.

Speaker 3: 9:59

I have no desire to talk about match, I just want to know one question uh, connor, um, yeah, I was gonna bring this up let's be honest about why you had never had control of the remote connor. So well, connor, do you want to explain, uh, that joke to anybody that might not know?

Speaker 5: 10:14

No, I want you to actually.

Speaker 3: 10:15

No don't.

Speaker 6: 10:17

I don't know the name of the condition I want to see Anthony do it in the Chinese priest accent Go.

Speaker 3: 10:24

So because I've made the mistake of saying Connor has no, but you have hands, but your arms are right. No, it's not, he has feet, I know you have feet, you.

Speaker 5: 10:34

You are the only one who've actually met me in person, so I'm concerned that you would be the one not to get, not to understand it. That is true, I don't pay attention to details. Connor I'm a big picture guy. You were just grumpy at me that day.

Speaker 4: 10:52

No, I wasn't yes, you were I'm a big picture kind of guy.

Speaker 2: 10:58

No, I think he was actually grumpy at margo that day.

Speaker 5: 11:00

That's what it was it wasn't, it was definitely grumpy at me?

Speaker 3: 11:07

no, I wasn't. I was, uh, and I wasn't grumpy at Margo either. It was just there was a lot going on at that conference it was a grumpy day, but what is the actual condition you have?

Speaker 5: 11:22

doesn't have a name. No, yeah, either does. Anthony's are you going to try and explain it more, or Rob should really, because he's, uh, he's the one that feels uncomfortable about it.

Speaker 2: 11:37

I was like explain it to me because I don't know can rob try would yeah, but you don't have hands and you kind of have feet kind of okay, I mean, you do have feet but they, they're like why are you? Doing this to me, man.

Speaker 3: 11:54

Because it's funny. So Connor's in a wheelchair and he has no arms, or maybe he has. I thought you had short. I have a little arm, so how do you? Let me ask you, though, how do you operate your computer and stuff? Do you have a special way?

Speaker 2: 12:14

Trust me, the bigger question that we all want to know is how you operate your computer and the answer is not very well. Oh brother.

Speaker 5: 12:25

Well, the short answer is I have two Short. Oh, so you use your feet for that? Yes, my feet act as hands okay, all right let's get off this topic.

Speaker 3: 12:36

Everybody's clearly uncomfortable with it. I don't know why?

Speaker 2: 12:37

so you never had to worry about having your elbows on the table as a kid, huh no, I guess not no ralph's like yeah, I'm uncomfortable explaining the condition, but I won't make fun of it that's what I do.

Speaker 5: 12:50

When I'm uncomfortable with something, I make fun of it, okay well, each um each or some of the elements have names, but none of them have names altogether. There's no singular. I have no. Well, I have no genetic problems. My genes are perfect.

Speaker 2: 13:10

Yeah well, well, I mean.

Speaker 3: 13:13

Connor made the joke one time. He said yeah, well, at least I've never had to deal with communion in the hand right.

Speaker 5: 13:20

He did make that, that is.

Speaker 2: 13:22

It's just a fact too, it's one of those things you don't get told before the show not to laugh loud like I normally do because Mina's sleeping below me.

Speaker 3: 13:32

I'll wake her up. I'm just telling you crying kid, you better get her out.

Speaker 5: 13:38

Am I a Minecraft character? What does that even mean?

Speaker 3: 13:45

I think the funniest way to troll people is to critique their parenting so that's why the co-sleeping thing got so heated is to critique their parenting, so that's why the co-sleeping thing got so heated. So I just make I make comments about people that their kids cry in church and it's amazing how people react when you tell them their kid, the, the. If your mass ain't crying, it's dying thing. I'm just so tired of hearing it like I don't really care if your kid's crying at mass, I don't really disagree with it, it just annoys you.

Speaker 3: 14:09

At this point it's just, it's just such a cheesy phrase. Your man's ain't crying, he's dying it is five years ago shut up stupid.

Speaker 2: 14:18

And everyone who says I think they're thinks they're being so clever and like so it's like it's, it's such a novus ordo priest homily.

Speaker 3: 14:27

Yeah, I think like while the baby's crying, don't worry, guys, if your mass ain't crying is dying. Everybody's heard it 8 000 times, but yet people tweet it like it's the first time everybody's ever heard it probably another sort of context.

Speaker 2: 14:37

It's the only baby in the church, so, yes, it's really deafening yeah, but the boomers will still turn around and look at you like you've killed their own child or something exactly exactly so we got a couple of things we're going to talk about tonight.

Speaker 3: 14:50

Connor, what have you been up to? Are you still podcasting what's going on? You take a little break from it.

Speaker 5: 14:55

Well, I will be. I will be releasing podcasts, kind of as it fits into I don't know what interests me, more so than just kind of on a regular basis. So tomorrow I'm releasing an episode with Charles Coulombe about his new book, the Complete Monarchist, which is a collection of his essays on monarchy over like 20 years probably. So a lot of it's very, you know, not much has changed, which is kind of interesting, even though much has changed in the world. Not much has changed which is kind of interesting. Even though much has changed in the world. Not much has changed for him from a political perspective. And then I am building on my sub stack. I am releasing articles from time to time on literature, history, politics, fiction, that sort of thing history, politics, fiction, that sort of thing. And then I've really the reason I'm not podcasting on a more consistent basis is because I am have redirected my focus towards novel writing.

Speaker 6: 16:03

Oh cool Really.

Speaker 5: 16:04

So my goal will be to, in the next few months, release a novel. I can't wait to see what the character you name, anthonyony. I can't wait to see what he's like. Well, the, so I'll give sort of some sneak preview. Uh, the. The story is about a pop star whose life crashes and has to deal with the consequences and by doing so falls into basically religion and how that affects his surrounding life and the people around him.

Speaker 3: 16:42

That's a good plot For plot lines especially.

Speaker 5: 16:45

You have a title? No, I do not. I've only written like two chapters, so it's just a beginning.

Speaker 3: 16:52

Do you have the whole story kind of map that in your head or you're kind of as you're going, you're generally I don't like mapping.

Speaker 5: 16:59

So I have a general idea I don't like mapping because it's actually I've heard Stephen King actually said has said this is that if he writes a, if he writes an outline of his story, he no longer is interested anymore, because it feels like he told it.

Speaker 4: 17:15

Oh wow, I can feel that, as someone who does like my own private creative writing, I can feel that so, like I would imagine, as you're writing you're hearing the story as you go.

Speaker 5: 17:25

You know it's like yeah, it does feel more like you're. It's just kind of happening and your things pop into your head and you put them down on paper.

Speaker 5: 17:34

Well, yeah computer, but uh, but yeah, so it will be interesting. Uh, I, I do, you know mrs c saying I wish more catholics wrote novels. I do feel like there's a real hole, you know, there is uh in the market, and I'm not really thinking of it necessarily from a business perspective, necessarily because we're not the biggest demographic, anyways, at least not of people who actually believe in the faith, but there is a. Okay, anyways, I don't even know, what to say.

Speaker 5: 18:24

Okay, so Let me just finish my thought. There was a Catholic literary revival in the 20th century and it seems like after roughly the 70s it died and I would be interested in driving a new Catholic literary revival. There are others out there. I'm a big fan of Bill Biersack's the Father Baptist series. It's about a traditional Catholic priest dealing with mysteries, kind of like Father Brown, but with a post-Vatican II sort of bent. And I mean post-Vatican II, I mean it's satirical, it's making fun of the changes after Vatican II. And then I have not read father elijah, but I've heard that's very good. And then taylor marshall has the uh, has his series, yeah, but there's, you know, I think we could. You know, we're not the authors, we have no disrespect to anybody, but we don't have as quality of writers like we don't have as quality of writers, like we don't have the masters of the past. And I would like to help drive the you know, me and my fellow writers towards that pinnacle that we could rise.

Speaker 2: 19:44

To be fair, no one has the masters of the past, like all modern literature is trash.

Speaker 4: 19:49

Well, that's what. Well, it's kind of grimy.

Speaker 5: 19:53

Well, what I'm saying is that the we, you know, and it's kind of interesting because the literary revival started, you know, it was sort of sparked by newman, cardinal newman, and then, uh, chesterton belloc, but it really hit its stride with tolkien and graham green and evelyn waugh were sort of, I would say, and Flannery O'Connor, the four best authors of the 20th century, and that happened to kind of in the middle of the century. So my thought is, maybe that will, something like that might occur, and I'd like to be a part of it, even if it's not, even if I'm not one of, you know, the big ones. You know, if I could at least push people towards thinking more about fiction, that would be great yeah, let's talk to uh, uh, what's his name um?

Speaker 2: 20:44

jeff putnam the guy's written four books since the first of the year really. Really yeah, dang man, he does more like pop fiction, like or no pulp fiction.

Speaker 3: 20:57

But I just got a text from. So while you interviewed this is an interesting size out, but you interviewed Gavin Ashenden before we did- yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5: 21:13

I want to get the Catholic Unscripted group together at some point on my show. Awkward. Oh, they're not Awkward, Never mind they are. I'm not playing it, I'm not really closing.

Speaker 3: 21:29

You'll be able to figure out by this episode, I don't pay that close attention anymore to the general yeah Well, catherine interviewed Father Maudsley and then Gavin put out a video the day after, kind of refuting everything that was in that conversation.

Speaker 2: 21:49

Oh yeah. I can't wait to one day put out a video refuting everything you said the day before on the video.

Speaker 6: 21:56

I should do it just for fun. You should do it for fun.

Speaker 3: 21:59

I was like I'll join you, I would like to disavow everything Anthony said yesterday.

Speaker 5: 22:06

At least they're experimenting. At least they're going into new. I don't know going into new ideas. I don't know going into new ideas or just talking about them, Even if it's contentious, I guess. Alright.

Speaker 3: 22:19

So should we do the Atlantic story Rob.

Speaker 2: 22:23

Shoot. I gotta see if I can.

Speaker 3: 22:25

I have the free version pulled up here. Yeah, the Atlantic put out an article saying the Catholics who have to worship somewhere else. I have not read this article yet, but it's about the Latin mass. So Jessica Harvey used to worship in a church with stained glass and a soaring ceiling. The Catholic parish gave Harvey and her family a sense of community as they settled into their new hometown of Virginia, but a year later they started worshiping at a Catholic school four miles away in a cramped space that used to double as a ballet studio and storage room. Instead of stained glass, colored images cover the windows. Exposed ductwork hangs overhead.

Speaker 3: 23:04

Why the downgrade? Harvey's parish was forced to relocate its traditional Latin mass, an ancient version of the Catholic liturgy that has set off one of the fiercest controversies in modern Catholicism. In 2021, pope Francis restricted access to the old rite and required that priests get special permission to celebrate it. The parishes that are still allowed to offer the mass the traditional mass can't advertise in their bulletin, and many Latin mass devotees like Harvey no longer worship in their churches advertising their bulletin. And many Latin mass devotees, like Harvey, no longer worship in their churches, which are largely reserved for the newer, now standard, rite. Traditionalists have been relegated, in some cases, to auditoriums and school gyms. In an autobiography published earlier this year, the Pope made his distaste clear, writing that he deplored the ostentation of priests who celebrate the old mass in fancy vestments and lace, which can sometimes conceal mental imbalance. Such language stands in clear contrast to his emphasis on mercy and pastoral flexibility towards groups on the margins, such as divorced or LGBT Catholics. This is interesting. This guy's got to be a trad right, or is it a?

Speaker 4: 24:10

girl, or just rational.

Speaker 5: 24:12

Rencing it'd be a person just looking out from the or looking in from the outside.

Speaker 3: 24:18

So when he issued the decree, francis said he was trying to preserve unity in the church, where the liturgy had become a point of particular conflict, in his campaign to modernize the faith. That's interesting, uh, but whether the pope seeks unity through reconciliation or suppression, he's not succeeding. The edict has hardened and widened the divisions among Catholics, alienating the church's small but young, ardent and unyielding group of Latin mass loyalists. For nearly 1,500 years, a large majority of Catholics in the Western Church attended mass in Latin. In the Second Vatican Council, the rite changed in ways that went well beyond translation to vernacular. To encourage active participation, the council called for a greater lay involvement. During the Mass, parishioners started reading scripture, conducting prayers and responding to the priest, who began facing the congregation. In most celebrations, many churches experimented with the liturgy and played contemporary music. Whereas the ceremonies in the old rite emphasized Christ's sacrifice on the cross, those in the new rite highlighted the shared Eucharistic meal. This guy's got to know this stuff. This is too in detail.

Speaker 2: 25:21

If the guy's just non-Catholic or secular, it's amazing how a non-Catholic or secular person can be more honest about what happened than most of Catholic media.

Speaker 4: 25:32

What? What's the guy's name who wrote?

Speaker 3: 25:34

it. Look him up, look him up, francis.

Speaker 2: 25:36

Francis, let's early life.

Speaker 4: 25:38

This dude I was going to say I can look him up real quick If you want to keep it up there. What's his name?

Speaker 3: 25:43

Francis Paulo Pellegrin.

Speaker 2: 25:46

No, no, that's the picture isn't it, oh, francis Rocha, francis.

Speaker 5: 25:50

X Rocha, he probably is a Catholic, he's covered the Vatican since 07, including for the Journal.

Speaker 2: 25:59

He currently works for the National Catholic Register.

Speaker 3: 26:01

Oh, so he works for NCR. Okay, Most Catholics accepted the reforms which helped them understand and engage with the central practice of their faith.

Speaker 3: 26:11

Oh, yeah, so much, but a dedicated minority resisted and continued celebrating the old mass, sometimes without getting the vaticans newly required permission. Parishes were allowed to say the new mass, the new mass in latin, but few did. Traditionalists typically explain their attachment by emphasizing the beauty of the old latin mass, which is often accompanied by gregorian chant, polyphony and its connection to the church's history. They also say the rite is more reverential. Many cherish the long stretches of silence when the priest's words are inaudible. Restrictions on the mass began to loosen in the 80s when John Paul II allowed bishops to permit the traditional rite within their diocese, but access remained patchy until 07, the year Benedict XVI removed practically all limits, a decision that drew widespread media coverage. I mean, I want to try and get to the. Okay, oh, here's something interesting. All right. So today, stephen Cranny, a sociologist at the Catholic University of America, estimates that many tens of thousands, at least occasionally, attend the Old Rite Mass in the United States, which is believed to have the world's largest Latin mass community. That's only a fraction of America's 75 million Catholics, but they tend to be strongly committed to their faith. Cranny told me the kind of constituency that provides high octane fuel for a religious institution In 2023,. Cranny and Stephen Bullivant, a sociologist of religion, surveyed Catholics and found that half expressed interest in attending the Latin Mass. Half oh that they asked. It doesn't say how many he asked.

Speaker 3: 27:40

The revival of the old rite seems to be part of a broader movement in the church.

Speaker 3: 27:43

There's this desire to go back to what once was, to ground oneself in a tradition amid a kind of modern instability where everything seems to get thrown up in the air. That's a good quote An expert on liturgy who teaches at the University of Notre Dame. He pointed to the growing number of Catholics who have adopted old customs, such as kneeling for communion and wearing veils at mass. The trend also extends to other Christians, including Episcopalians, who have revived the use of the 1928 Book of Common Prayer, who have revived the use of the 1928 Book of Common Prayer, perhaps counterintuitively, this return to tradition seems to be led by young Catholics, who make up a disproportionate share of Latin mass devotees. According to a recent survey that Cranny and Bolivin conducted of parishes that offered it, 44% of Catholics who attend the Old Rite at least once a month were under 45, compared with only 20% of other members of those parishes. Patrick Merkel, a senior at Notre Dame who attends. This is like similar to the. I'm wondering.

Speaker 2: 28:40

Similar to like every article about the Latin mass.

Speaker 4: 28:45

Their articles write themselves. At this point I was going to say yeah.

Speaker 3: 28:48

Instead of seeing the Latin mass as a source of vitality in the church, Francis denounces it as a rallying point of dissent. The celebration of the old rite, he argued in a letter to bishops that accompanied the 2021 decree, is often characterized by a rejection not only of the liturgical reform, but of the Vatican Second Council itself. He's right that some advocates of the Latin Mass have been divisive critics of modern Church have been divisive critics of modern church. Marcel Lefebvre, an archbishop who founded a traditionalist group called the SSPX, objected to key teachings from the council, including about the church's openness to other religions, particularly Judaism, and ordained four bishops without papal approval in 1988. John Paul II declared the ordination schismatic and all five men automatically incurred excommunication. Carlo Maria Vigano offers a more recent example of former Vatican. All right, let's see.

Speaker 3: 29:34

He's not even really a trad. Lesser known agitators abound on the internet For all their public protestations. To the contrary, the traditionalists, who are influencers on social media, communicate a radical disunity with the church and her magisterium.

Speaker 2: 29:47

Oh, imagine my surprise it's a deacon Wrote shortly after 2021.

Speaker 3: 29:52

It oh, imagine my surprise, it's a deacon.

Speaker 5: 29:53

Wrote shortly after 2021 degree.

Speaker 2: 29:54

It's always a deacon. It's a married deacon Probably sucks at being married.

Speaker 3: 29:58

This is what I want to get into here. So last week the killing of a priest in Kansas prompted speculation that traditionalism may have been associated with something even worse than schism. The man charged with the murder had written critically of the post-Vatican II church, but the motive for the shooting remains unknown. The Latin mass attendees I spoke with say their congregations have some vocal critics of Vatican II and the modern church, but they insist that such people are not representative. Still, the limits that Francis has placed on the old rite seem to have further isolated some of its adherence to the broader church. Since the mass was relocated. Jessica Harvey told me that she and her family have had harder times staying connected to their parish. We have to make an effort to make sure that we're still part of the larger community.

Speaker 3: 30:40

Some Latin mass goers have responded to the restrictions by turning to liturgies offered by breakaway groups the SSPX website. James Vogt liturgies offered by breakaway. The sspx website says that about 25 000 americans attend its liturgies. James vogel, the us spokesperson for the group, told me that attendance has increased by several thousand in the past few years. Yeah, but he's biased.

Speaker 4: 31:04

We know that, james well, the yeah, I was like the 25 numbers old, that's from 2014, that's over a decade old. Before COVID, before all kinds.

Speaker 3: 31:13

That's what I would like to know with COVID and since TC.

Speaker 4: 31:17

TC McCarrick, all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 3: 31:19

The renewed interest in the traditional right aligns with what's known as the strict church hypothesis, which stipulates that religious groups tend to thrive when the cost of belonging to them increases. If you and your fellow Latin mass devotees are exiled from a church to a storage room, your membership will likely take on greater value. Where some Catholics seem to have begun attending a Latin Mass in direct response to Francis' decree, harvey says that her reason for going has little to do with church politics. It's simpler this is a place where we more easily meet God man that's interesting.

Speaker 4: 31:51

Well, there's a few interesting lines in there, for sure.

Speaker 3: 31:55

Go ahead, let's hear your interesting take.

Speaker 2: 32:00

It's like every other article I've ever read on the issue.

Speaker 3: 32:04

More than any subscribing to access exclusive content. Like Anthony reading the Atlantic.

Speaker 5: 32:10

Grover wants you to read my audiobook for me, or read the audiobook for my book.

Speaker 4: 32:15

This is the comment of the night. For me, that's the comment of the night I mean Rob is not wrong, or this one.

Speaker 2: 32:22

He has a smooth vanilla voice honed through decades of chain smoking.

Speaker 4: 32:26

That's funny. No, the Atlantic comment got the one for me. The article is, I would say, fairly straightforward about the Latin mass issue, but I think what it does is it reminds me of today I was thinking about. I'm in the process of just trying to formulate a script for this concept, but the video is going to be called something like why the Novus Ordo Will Be Dead by 2025, unless and my thesis is essentially it is 2025. Or, excuse me, 2050. Excuse me, 2050.

Speaker 2: 32:57

It's what happens when you don't. Is this Nick threatening all the Novus Ordos, or something?

Speaker 4: 33:02

Yeah, you can clip that.

Speaker 4: 33:04

No, my thesis is essentially, I think, that the Novus Ordo will be dead by 2050 because of just the great resurgence amongst the youth for just things that are traditional, unless all of this is not, if you will, coupled with actual traditional doctrine.

Speaker 4: 33:22

So that's my big issue, and you kind of saw this in the article, where it seems that a lot of people again who attend the Latin Mass it's just for the smells and bells as opposed for the faith, which is the problem, because it's like again, that kind of buzz. I was gonna, I was gonna say this and I'll let anthony now go into his fit of rage, because anthony wants to speak on this more than anything. But I'll give this example, I'll have this key in for you, anthony notice how there are more influencers right now defending a certain group of people than there were mainstream influencers defending people like me who actually I lost my cathedral and now go to mass in a hall because I'm not allowed to by the official prescriptions to do these things. And also notice how they happen to label, if you will, the founder of traditionalism as anti again, a certain group of people. It's just very, very telling.

Speaker 5: 34:14

It's very interesting, was it heard that way prior to this research. This, uh, you know sort of this. Oh, the, the archbishop, you mean yeah, did people refer to him that way?

Speaker 4: 34:26

uh, previously, because I never heard that, not as dramatic not as much, but you see people, because there is a famous video of him. I can send it to you three if you guys want. But there's a famous video of him where he does talk about the Jews being the enemies of Christ, but in the context, again, of religion, not of race, and he's very clear. He says specifically how can the Pope be praying with the enemies of Christ? They're the ones who betrayed our Lord. How can you be praying with these individuals? And he's like he's not saying this in an angry tone, he's saying this almost like weeping, Like how can this be the guy in the chair Peter's doing this Like?

Speaker 3: 35:01

this Marcel Lefebvre guy more and more every day.

Speaker 4: 35:06

I queued you up, anthony, now you can go.

Speaker 3: 35:08

Now you can go off up, anthony, now you can go, now you can go off. I think, uh, a lot of factors come into play if you think the traditional mass is going to be the dominant liturgy by 2050. I think there's like this it's not just doctrine and dogma, it it does come down to just um, uh, different habits, that novice or like, because we always read those articles about like, oh, the next generation of priests are more conservative and things like that, and it's like, yeah, but these guys are still in regular seminaries and they're, and they're, they're housed with other novus ordo priests and like the lackadaisical habits, like half the priests we have now are e-priests and all the, all the articles that are saying they're conservative.

Speaker 4: 35:52

Think conservatism is like daily wire conservatism you know, what I mean, like yeah, so you can't really trust it actually actually redeemed zoomer made this exact point about our faith. Uh, like two weeks ago, he put up this instagram post that I I saved because it was really interesting. He says what's cool about catholicism right now is that you do see this resurgence of the TLM right, because that's cool. But the issue that could arise is you see a lot of conservative Catholicism pairing it in with certain elements of politics.

Speaker 3: 36:24

I think that's a big danger too.

Speaker 4: 36:26

Yeah, no, it's absolutely a danger and it's clear. I'll give this example and then I want you to keep going, anthony. This last week I was at a parish mission at our local parish right. It was a fantastic mission. It was by a really good Norma team priest on the subject of forgiveness. But on Sunday, before the parish mission started, I went to this young adults meeting right For the first time. I was kind of checking out this young adult group and it was filled with everybody who goes to the Nova Sorda. I was the only trad that was there and we're going through this lecture and it's insane.

Speaker 4: 36:55

It opens up as a what do you think this Bible passage means? Like group as opposed to like? What does the church actually teach about this section of scripture? And then we got on the death penalty. And this is a guy who's probably, maybe at most 15 years older than me and gets up and he just and he's, he's a teacher and he just starts saying he's like the church once taught the death penalty, but now the church formally condemns the death penalty. We no longer believe that anymore no, it doesn't, but whatever.

Speaker 4: 37:22

Yeah, so we got into a debate and it's just like but here's the problem is like, we can, as I've said before, we can get in our trad isolated bubbles, but then when you go out and you start talking to people, you realize that there is a complete disconnect yeah, listen, you know who has the take that.

Speaker 3: 37:35

Oh, the church is getting more conservative. It's the boomers, it's like the, it's the older catholics like the people who think they are conservative it's, it's the, it's the novus ordo going set of a contest. Who thinks francis is the?

Speaker 6: 37:49

pope generation is based.

Speaker 3: 37:52

It's like you guys really have no idea what you're talking about. Somebody said it in the comments.

Speaker 2: 37:55

They were like yeah right, they'll say trend horn is a conservative yeah, it's like, oh, because they think gay sex is wrong.

Speaker 3: 38:02

It's like, oh, whoa. It's like the bar we've set for conservative is so low at this point, like what you would really need is holy priests who are praying the breviate, breviary. And like, like you would need you would need thousands of father maudsleys like I don't know, I don't know how that happens.

Speaker 4: 38:23

You know it's like every priest to like fulfill the standard set forth by saint alphonsus the gore in duties and duties of the priest, where it's like hey, priest, you literally have to worship the God. You have to worship God like the seraphim do. You have to be that holy instrument. You yourself have to be an oblation for Christ. It can't just be, yeah, sure, like you're kind of like the community glue that fits everybody together and you're the guy that people come and cry on.

Speaker 2: 38:53

It's like no like your job is for sacrifice. A thousand father isaacs. Isaacs could get pretty violent.

Speaker 3: 38:56

The thing is. This is why, like I, I I really don't see any improvement on the in the church on the horizon. Unless there's an act of god, like it is, too it is, it would take so many generations it would be an improvement, but it's not going to be like a it'd be kind of like.

Speaker 4: 39:17

It'd be kind of like as an example, by, by analogy like how trump was an improvement over biden, but yeah, you could say that if you want, uh, which I think. I think I would say again trump's conservatism is better than bush's conservatism any day, but that doesn't take hard to beat, I don't know if it is, I used to think that I don't know.

Speaker 2: 39:37

Honestly.

Speaker 3: 39:38

I see it as the same foreign policy. Look, I was very hopeful.

Speaker 2: 39:45

To be fair, we don't have boots on the ground yet, so it's better so far.

Speaker 4: 39:49

And to be fair. Fair again, like if you just choose to look at everything through the prism of israel, then you'll see it's not.

Speaker 3: 39:56

It's not just that, it's well, nick, it's kind of hard not to when. When, like your favorite catholic youtuber, who you trusted to tell the truth and was coming back talking about ukraine and saying how we, america, should never be in foreign wars, then all of a sudden drops a video about how we need to go to war with iran, like tim pool, like it's like I don't know, man, I don't, I don't, I, I don't want to get blackpilled on everything.

Speaker 4: 40:20

I'm trying not to, but I I don't know, you seem pretty blackpilled on everything. I have some people who come up to me in real life. They're like why is anthony so blackpilled on everything?

Speaker 5: 40:27

I'm trying to make sure he's not it's weird, I don't know it's weird when the libertarians are at least more useful or at least more consistent.

Speaker 3: 40:37

That's one thing I like maybe that's what it is, maybe I got too much. Um, I just I'm so tired of foreign wars, dude, like I don't want my son going to foreign wars. Man, I was 40, four and a half minutes behind while anthony was talking, decided to speed up to the car. It's just, I don't know whatever, I don't even care about talking about politics, but just the church itself. Like I think there's so much that needs to be fixed and it's not just like I mean it would be interesting if we did get like a super base Pope. I just don't see that.

Speaker 4: 41:11

I just don't think we're worthy of one because it's you know one reason. I've had some people reach out to me and ask, nick, why haven't you posted that much of her lent? And it's like, aside from just being busy, I've just been focusing so much in on the spiritual life and I don't think we're worthy of a holy pope, even like the people who call themselves orthodox and like try to have the right faith. It's like I mean, just think of it as an example. It's like there are millions upon millions of people in hell for breaking the eighth commandment when it comes to speech, for not forgiving, for detracting their neighbor, for rash judgment, for calumny, and it's like you see that on every Catholic social media outlet.

Speaker 3: 41:51

I always kind of I always kind of want to push back on this argument that, like you get the priest you deserve. It's like yeah, because I know poor, like poor, poor priests are like a judgment from God, but at the same time, like, how are we supposed to even like? Like, is God leaving it to all of us to go and study manuals? Like I don't know. Like, how are people supposed to like even know?

Speaker 4: 42:19

it's just keeping his commandments. That's the thing I mean. You don't have to be. You are obligated right to live according to your state and life and to study your faith according your state and life. But, more important than that, you're just supposed to have charity for God, and charity for God is not an emotion. Charity for God is just keeping His commandments, and that's the issue. It's like so many these are the natural laws. It's like if we can't stop slandering and judging our brothers and sisters and just using our tongues, as St James talks about, it's lit on fire of hell and it causes many fires. If we can't stop doing that, then God, who is a good father, will chastise us, as a good father will, and I think that the one way he chastises his people is through bad leaders, just like he did with Israel.

Speaker 5: 43:04

Wait, did you say we were that the Novus Ordo was going to be gone by 2050 or not?

Speaker 4: 43:09

gone. So the title of the idea is the Novus Ordo will be gone by 2050. Unless and basically getting into the unless premise, it's unless there's these, unless people really change their ways right when it comes to certain aspects inside of the church, then it will continue. But if they do change their way, then the new mass will deteriorate.

Speaker 3: 43:38

If that makes sense, you'll have to just see the. I'll send you the video. Um, it's like yeah, I don't know, I think. I just think everything's so messy right now, I don't know. I'm just yeah, I I'm. What is the run? I was literally just looking up the rundown topic because molly said, like I didn't, I thought they I was. No, they put out an episode recently. Um, the, yeah, uh, I don't know where we go from here. Man, like the, the, the church is messy and I think that you just have to kind of find your enclave of wherever you can to find the faith being taught properly. I think everybody has to do that in their parishes at this point. You have to just find a good parish, find a good community and kind of just hunker down.

Speaker 2: 44:17

There's so few good parishes I know.

Speaker 4: 44:20

Yeah Well, I agree with that. I would say maybe where I'm a little bit more white-pilled about the idea is it's like Well, you make up your mind.

Speaker 5: 44:33

White-pilled or black, like well, you make up your mind. Yeah, black bill, choose one, come on.

Speaker 6: 44:35

Thank you, rob, that is what I've been thinking about the entire time like wait who's the black one?

Speaker 4: 44:37

I can't figure it out they're not, because is it what it is is like you can rightly recognize evil in this world and rightly recognize, like how bad evil that truly is, but at the same time if you recognize that good is greater because god is goodness and god is on the side of righteousness, then you have in your corner all you need to take back society like with god, if god before us. Who is against us?

Speaker 5: 45:05

oh yeah well, I know, I think that's going to happen or not going to happen.

Speaker 4: 45:10

Oh, it will, it will happen, god will win.

Speaker 5: 45:18

I know, but are we talking about in 100?

Speaker 4: 45:20

years, 200 years. I'm saying like, are you optimistic about the oh gotcha, gotcha? Yeah, I'm optimistic, I'm optimistic yeah.

Speaker 5: 45:24

You just don't sound it. Neither of you, anthony Nick, neither of you sound it.

Speaker 3: 45:30

I'm short term pessimist, long-term optimist.

Speaker 2: 45:33

You think the world's going to be in World War III by 2028?.

Speaker 3: 45:38

That's short-term pessimism. You think the world is going to end. What happens at the end? What?

Speaker 2: 45:45

do you mean?

Speaker 3: 45:48

What happens at the end? There's a long-term optimist. This is why.

Speaker 5: 45:52

I don't do as much podcasting anymore.

Speaker 4: 45:55

I don't blame you, bro, I don't blame you.

Speaker 3: 45:57

I don't know. I think it's exciting that we're alive for such crazy times. I'm not like blackmailed, like oh my gosh, we're doomed. I kind of think it's like holy crap, look at what the hell is happening in our world right now.

Speaker 4: 46:10

It's kind of wild.

Speaker 2: 46:11

Yeah, no, I, I, I get that. It's like. It's like this weekend I get to go to a pre-55 uh palm sunday. Well, so we're going to be down in the twin cities four hours away, and they do have one there. That's the upside. The downside is I'm probably going to be down in the twin cities four hours away, and they do have one there. That's the upside. The downside is I'm probably going to be recognized at that mass and I don't want to hope so. I everybody, if no please go on.

Speaker 2: 46:32

It's why I'm not telling it, not taking the church.

Speaker 4: 46:35

Shave your beard. Wear some really dark shades in there.

Speaker 2: 46:38

Take a photo. I would, I know.

Speaker 4: 46:42

No.

Speaker 2: 46:42

Shaving my beard is a sign of despair.

Speaker 3: 46:44

You should send your brother as a decoy. Rob, Send my brother.

Speaker 1: 46:47

Yeah, give my brother my brother hasn't been a mass in a long time.

Speaker 2: 46:56

So I'll give him my glasses and make him go to a. How long is the pre-55?

Speaker 4: 46:58

Palm Sunday. It's long Two hours, yeah, it's like two and a half, maybe three hours.

Speaker 2: 47:02

No, no maybe I'm not going to the usual parish I go to down there well, I highlighted that comment because I wonder if he does know who we are.

Speaker 3: 47:10

I don't know I wonder if he knows who we are you'll get to see him. You'll get to see him around September but I saw him at the freaking CIC and he didn't. He was so busy like I didn't really talk to him.

Speaker 4: 47:22

You know, yeah, he might have recognized you've been like too busy for this guy or, and we're like three times bigger than we were when you were at cic that's true. That's true because, like back then, it was like what, like?

Speaker 3: 47:37

5 000 subs or something no between 10 and 15 yeah, 13.

Speaker 2: 47:40

Okay, yes, I will go to the pre-55 palm sunday as a jew. What could go wrong?

Speaker 3: 47:48

that make the genuine flexion when they pray for the jews that's good friday.

Speaker 2: 47:52

You you have gotten this screwed up multiple times now on air. I'll I'll do a report. Is the TLM really as anti-semitic as it says?

Speaker 3: 48:04

Oh man, yeah, interesting time Alright. Well, let's switch subjects. I don't want to black pull everybody. What did you guys think of the dire wolf story?

Speaker 2: 48:14

Wow, that was a Bad transition.

Speaker 4: 48:18

I've not even heard of the dire wolf story.

Speaker 2: 48:20

In all honesty, no, I've been literally just kind of Unplugged from everything it's uh that's what I said yo crucify just in the middle, just not even at the part, just in the middle of the nowhere.

Speaker 5: 48:35

Oh, oh, we're not doing john's gospel right now, guys, sorry, poor um the direwolf thing is good, very strange, and I don't really care that much about it, to be honest. What the direwolf thing? Yeah, I mean, it just seems I don't know takes on it, so okay, so nick, what are you?

Speaker 2: 48:59

were you about to read something?

Speaker 3: 49:01

I was going to, but go ahead well.

Speaker 2: 49:02

So, nick, what they did is there's this company called I forget what it's called, but they took gray wool, they took gray wolves and they found that there were 14, there's 14 genetic differences, 14 genes that are different between gray wolves and dire wolves. Okay, right, so they they didn't use any dire wolf DNA, but they made those 14 genetic changes in the gray wolf genome and then used it to implant eggs into dogs, to carry these eggs to term, and hence they've so-called dire wolves were born, but it's basically gray wolf eggs with 14 genetic changes to make them look like dire wolves. Yeah so, but they presented the story like jurassic park.

Speaker 3: 49:48

Yeah, they put the story like like jurassic park. So the genome was reconstructed by colossal colossal from dna found in fossils. The fossils date back to 72 000 years. Like it's such nonsense, colossal, uh, bioscience has said. The moment marks not only a milestone for us as a company, but also a leap forward for science, conservation and humanity. From the beginning, our goal has been clear to revolutionize history and be the first company to use CRISPR technology successfully in the de-extinction of previously lost species. By achieving this, we continue to push forward our broader mission on accepting humanity's duty to restore Earth to a healthier state.

Speaker 2: 50:27

But it's not like we killed off the dire wolves. We didn't.

Speaker 5: 50:32

What did kill them off? Aren't they like arctic?

Speaker 2: 50:35

The megafauna, so like the giant sloths and other larger creatures that used to inhabit North and South America.

Speaker 4: 50:43

Anthony's family. No, he is sick larger creatures that used to inhabit North and South.

Speaker 2: 50:50

America.

Speaker 4: 50:50

Anthony's family.

Speaker 2: 50:51

I saw the opportunity and I took it, so all their prey died off, right, and that's basically it. So now I mean, what, what? What's the point of bringing him back?

Speaker 5: 51:01

to make George R Martin happy. That's what I was thinking.

Speaker 4: 51:05

No, no, he literally funded it. Yeah, he did, oh really, he did.

Speaker 5: 51:09

Him and Peter Jackson funded it.

Speaker 4: 51:12

Rare Peter Jackson L. Okay, so now.

Speaker 3: 51:16

I know they're not real direwolves, but they're playing around with this genome technology right, I mean, the question is, they might be.

Speaker 2: 51:25

I mean, like, like, what makes a dire wolf a dire wolf did? Did that genetic change? Because now they, I mean if their genomes now match dire wolf genomes did that change the essence of the gray wolf into the dark, like I mean this? This actually gets into some pretty deep philosophy now also are these like they're really attempting transubstantiation, trans these like I mean, they're really attempting transubstantiations, what they're really actually attempting?

Speaker 5: 51:49

Mrs Homemaker, we haven't gotten the second-to-last GRRM book, so we can't even get the last yet.

Speaker 2: 51:57

A dude will do anything except write. He'll literally create new creatures, so he doesn't have to write the book.

Speaker 5: 52:03

He will participate in making new fake or whatever creatures.

Speaker 3: 52:09

This is where I'm worried this goes. If they're doing this with dire wolves and this is a public company, they have to be careful. Things like that. Do you really think the chinese aren't experimenting with the human genome in ways?

Speaker 2: 52:26

like this 100, what do you think? They have a million uyghurs in camps. Yeah, you know what I mean. I mean, come on, yeah china.

Speaker 4: 52:35

China, right now, is one of the most like despicable countries on the face of the planet when it comes to, just like the oppression of their own people, and so they also have the technology to play with.

Speaker 3: 52:44

This. Exactly, exactly and, like rob said, like they're attempting transubstantiation, like they're attempting to. They're like talk about playing god. Yeah, exactly what they're doing. They are playing god, like this crisper technology they're already talking about. Like I saw some girl posted a thread the other day about how, um, they are now gene editing babies through ivf and like they're making sure there's no genes in there that could give your child choosing gender and all that yeah, it's like they're.

Speaker 3: 53:14

It is um, gattaca is what they're doing. Isn't this why god flooded the earth, right? So jonathan cajot said um, I told you we would you we had not seen in 10,000 years.

Speaker 3: 53:26

But it is just the beginning. Chimera incoming, just as in the time of Noah, and everybody's like dude, it's a gray wolf, it's a gray wolf. He's like you're missing the point. You're missing the point. What this technology is essentially is them playing around with the human genome Eventually, like that's where this goes. Talk about super soldiers and mixing humans with animals, things like that, like we don't know what they're going to do with this Cause.

Speaker 4: 53:59

We talked about it, I think, with Joshua Charles about like ak's plan to do some type of genetic alterations, where basically you could discern through ai what type of diseases a person might have and so you could develop a vaccine, like instantaneously, that would be unique to them. But it reminds me of I think it's in jurassic park 3 um, the line where dr graham says like they're walking through the old laboratory where everything's just blown up but they're seeing how the dinosaurs were created. And she's like, oh, this is crazy. Like is this what scientists do? And he says no, this is what happens when you play god. And it's like it is fortuitous, it's like that's exactly what it is. And I I like rob's question, it's like one, is this even really like a dire world for a gray wolf, depending on which one you want to go with? Um? I would just want to ask the question like okay, these things have souls? Like okay, what it like? What is this thing?

Speaker 3: 54:59

now, okay, does it? Is it like a liger where it can't reproduce? You know what I'm saying? No, I'm saying like I don't know where it can't reproduce. You know what I'm saying? I don't know when it can't reproduce. That's all I'm getting at. You can mate a tiger and a lion and you'll get a liger.

Speaker 2: 55:14

Which is why a liger isn't a species, because it's unable to reproduce.

Speaker 3: 55:18

It then can't reproduce. A mule isn't a?

Speaker 2: 55:21

separate species.

Speaker 3: 55:22

It's a donkey and a horse mating. Is this what happened when nerd a mule right? You live in a separate species. It's a donkey and a horse right mating.

Speaker 5: 55:26

So this is the question what happened when nerds took over the world?

Speaker 4: 55:30

freaking nerds. Um, but yeah, honestly, to rob's point, I guess to answer anthony's question. So here's my question like okay, have these two wolves before ever crossbred? Because it's like if they have, then that would be the answer to basically our question. But if not, and it's an impossibility, then it's like what the heck is this? That'd be the open question.

Speaker 3: 55:55

I guess it's a new species altogether.

Speaker 4: 55:58

This is a mortal sin. Go to confession right now. Go to confession.

Speaker 3: 56:04

I'm joking Um, joking um yeah, I don't know man, this is just weird things we're seeing. I don't know.

Speaker 2: 56:12

So they did overlap both in time and place, both gray wolves and dire wolves, at least according to I mean you know they're saying it was 40,000 years ago, whether that out.

Speaker 5: 56:24

But just fake mythology.

Speaker 4: 56:27

It's like if they did, then that would answer our question. Because it's like if there is the possibility of them being able to be crossbred, then while the method is immoral, it's not maybe as egregious. Not saying that they're not trying to do the egregious, I'm just saying in the immediate context Well, I would imagine I mean they have to be able to crossbreed with gray wolves now.

Speaker 3: 56:47

But they made. They made two males and a female. They named them romulus and remus, which I think is really freaking interesting.

Speaker 4: 56:55

It's like kind of cool, not gonna lie just because I'm a history, just because I'm a history nerd, but that's literally the only reason yeah, the girl's terrible name what was the girl's name?

Speaker 5: 57:05

it's uh calise is named after uh, one of the characters from so they're saying they likely did not interbreed.

Speaker 2: 57:15

Um, likely could not have interbred because of their their genetic differences. Like, yeah, there was only 14 genes they needed changing, but it looks like they descended from different lineages within the canine family. So, even though they weren't, there wasn't a lot of like genetic changes they had to do. It was a rather large genetic difference and probably could not have interbred gotcha now, what do you think of this?

Speaker 3: 57:41

so todd says he deaths chimera, even possible, all signs and wonders from demons. But I know like it talks about like god having to wipe out the earth because humans got so out of control, like I like. If it comes to that, wouldn't would god wipe us out?

Speaker 4: 58:00

well, the only other destruction of the entire earth, according to second Peter, is the destruction by fire. That's, but that is after the Lord returns.

Speaker 5: 58:14

So isn't the rainbow the?

Speaker 4: 58:16

or is it's in congruence with it. And so, yeah, the rainbow is a sign that God will never flood the earth again, but the second judgment will be fire, which sounds a lot like a Keter, right? Yeah, it could sound a sign that God will never flood the earth again, but the second judgment will be fire.

Speaker 4: 58:26

Which sounds a lot like Akita, right, yeah, it could sound like Akita, I mean, what it is is. 2 Peter is just an amazing epistle. People just go read it. It's just three chapters, but the whole premise is this is 1 Peter, excuse me, 1 Peter, chapters 4 and 5.

Speaker 4: 58:39

He says that the day of the Lord right, whenever it comes, the Lord will rain fire from the sky. The elements of the earth will melt because of the burning heat. And he says if scarcely the righteous are saved, where will the sinner get up here? And so God is. He says that God is loving, he is withholding his wrath, he's trying to give people time to repentance, but eventually he will come. When you tie this in with 2 Thessalonians, in the first chapter, st Paul says that when Christ shall come, he shall bring the wrath of his father and pour it out upon all those who did not believe in God and obey the Lord Jesus Christ.

Speaker 4: 59:17

When you tie these two things together, it's like in our context of this kind of cloning, it's clearly trying to play God. Although, can I let me make a devil's advocate argument, because I'm just curious on how you guys would respond to this? What would you guys say to the people who would say something like okay, I get why you're concerned, but, to be fair, is this not just a natural progression with science? Because when you look at surgeries or you look at medicines and stuff, look at all the things that we've managed to do today that have saved so many millions of lives, as opposed to, for instance, where I nerd out, in the 1860s, where simple fractures required you to amputate.

Speaker 3: 59:53

I would say that the church always used science, like the world always used science, but had a firm moral foundation in the church, like when the church would put forth moral principles. You're supposed to act within those guidelines and yeah science should never violate the natural law. Never should violate the natural law. Now, if you're starting to play around with gene editing and stuff like, I'm surprised the church said anything on this.

Speaker 4: 1:00:19

It's against human cloning. I don't know how much it said about animals, but like the principle but just not even that gene editing to edit app.

Speaker 2: 1:00:31

Like I mean, the last time the church talked about something like this was at the dawn of cloning, so like I don't think they've said anything on the subject since, like crisper started yeah, not to my knowledge.

Speaker 3: 1:00:40

If so, it's just been in passing so, um, these things may not be possible, but we have people with money and power thinking they are possible, tie in their occult leanings and explains a lot of what we are seeing. That's a good point, yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:00:54

Because it's like what. Do you guys know what Satan's original sin was, according to St Thomas, besides just pride Wanting? To create right, it was exactly he wanted to create without the power of god, which is the same as uh in, uh the silmarillion exactly more goths great sin yeah that's a good point.

Speaker 5: 1:01:15

Yeah, so when you time actually, and he even plays with sort of the uh.

Speaker 2: 1:01:20

One of the angels is creation of the dwarves I mean I was gonna say yeah, not just Morgoth. Ale wants to create life with the dwarves and Ilu and Luvatar basically says no, I'll give the dwarves lives because you've already created them, but you have no power over them now.

Speaker 4: 1:01:42

When you tie all those things in, it's like okay, this could be the ultimate satanic sin in a way, or maybe here's the better way. It's one of the more ultimate ways in which a person could mimic the action of Satan. Because Satan wanted—he was filled with pride. And then his action in being filled with pride is I want to be like the most high god, who created me and everything I want to create. And so us, who think that we're the center of the universe, say okay, we don't need god. Let us create in our image, if you will, what we want um, I'm sorry, I'm just popping into.

Speaker 3: 1:02:19

I want to make sure I'm in the live stream because I'm missing the comments.

Speaker 4: 1:02:24

You could tie this in with the patriarchy and feminism in a way, in the sense that it's like, because God is Father, he's the paternity, if you will, because he is Father, he is the one who creates the reason we call Him Father. There's many reasons, but the chiefest reason is that all the Trinity Father, son, father, son, holy spirit creates. But we, we emphasize that with god the father, god the father creates. But if we have this notion of everyone being equal in the same way, right, then that becomes a problem. This could be just a version of this, but applied in this context. That's really why tim gordon about yeah, no, I'm not a, not, not tim gordon guy per se. You know every area. I do agree with some of his basic theses, but I have a little bit more nuanced also just to answer the uh or just about what they're talking about in the chat.

Speaker 5: 1:03:19

Uh, the movie the lord of the Rings movies are not better than the books.

Speaker 3: 1:03:26

Science requires imagination. Any science conducted to eliminate the need for God is ultimately going to produce bad fruits. Evil imagination will bring about evil. Yeah, I think the things that they're playing with are just like, without those those boundaries that the church sets and says, okay, science can't go outside of these boundaries like the evil mind that man has is just gonna go off the rails and just get out of control, in my opinion.

Speaker 2: 1:03:57

But yeah, I mean, just wait till they try to uh to bring back neanderthals by implanting them, you know, eggs in women.

Speaker 5: 1:04:08

Are they going to be in the new orcs?

Speaker 2: 1:04:11

Oh my gosh, they're creating orcs Bro.

Speaker 5: 1:04:13

Tolkien is literally a prophet Like basically where, because when, if they have no souls, like no immortal souls, then they wouldn't, then they'd be fair game.

Speaker 2: 1:04:25

you know from a, from a that's actually a good point that's a really good hunt, human kind kind of human sort of you can.

Speaker 5: 1:04:33

It would be neanderthals then.

Speaker 4: 1:04:35

Well, actually condor. That's a really good point.

Speaker 5: 1:04:37

That's just interesting um that that was the whole point of orcs. You, basically Tolkien, wanted to have a villain that basically wasn't a. It wasn't man killing other men. There wasn't concern about like I don't know, Not killing them basically or not.

Speaker 2: 1:04:57

I cannot put that out.

Speaker 3: 1:04:59

Yeah, because even in modern warfare, even under just war, if you're killing innocent life, the point of the orcs is you can indiscriminately kill them without any remorse whatsoever. It's not human souls being lost.

Speaker 2: 1:05:14

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Have you watched Ring of Powers? They have baby orcs and those baby orcs have dreams. Damn it, Are you telling me you've?

Speaker 5: 1:05:21

watched it Rob.

Speaker 4: 1:05:22

No, but I've seen, I've like, I've seen that I know, I know I was just green grabbing that I'm like if rob had actually watched that, he would show up on stream with a shaved face and we would know it's all over, yeah all right.

Speaker 3: 1:05:35

So before we go we got, we got a good story um catholics now outnumber anglicans in the UK.

Speaker 5: 1:05:42

Well, so I've talked to Anglicans about this and they think it's a little more wonky than that. It's more a question of I don't know. I mean I disagree with him, but I just wanted to put forth the notion that the accuracy of that is not actually all there.

Speaker 2: 1:06:04

Yeah, but we don't care what Anglicans think.

Speaker 4: 1:06:08

What was the stat, Anthony? Did he give a stat?

Speaker 2: 1:06:10

Okay, so I'm pulling it up, connor, don't debunk what we haven't even discussed yet.

Speaker 4: 1:06:14

It's not from the Atlantic.

Speaker 3: 1:06:16

Wait till we read the story dude Calm down Connor Calm down.

Speaker 2: 1:06:23

Anthony hasn't even said it yet. Connor's like no, you're wrong, Shut up.

Speaker 5: 1:06:28

Remember that time when he asked about in trivia, like about converts or like literary converts.

Speaker 3: 1:06:36

We had the whole argument over whether Tolkien was a convert or a Well.

Speaker 5: 1:06:42

I think Joseph Pierce would actually agree with you basically that he's was a convert, or or well, I think, uh, I think joseph pierce would actually agree with you basically that he's not a convert, because he's not, uh, he wrote a book on literary converts and tolkien isn't mentioned, and then he, uh, he's in, like another argument argument by silence is not a good argument, connor all right, I remember the time you kicked anthony off your own show you guys are derailing everything

Speaker 5: 1:07:08

he's hey, that was inspired by you. I was just being you, it wasn't.

Speaker 3: 1:07:14

It wasn't my idea all right, here we go. A new study from the uk has found that among members of gen z in the uk, it's not all catholics, it's gen z in the UK.

Speaker 3: 1:07:22

It's not all Catholics, it's Gen Z Catholics in the UK, catholics now outnumber Anglicans two to one. Wow, part of the pattern observed across all age groups whereby participation in Catholicism has risen in recent years while Anglicanism has declined. A report from the Bible Society, a UK charity that translates and distributes the Bible worldwide, found that the practice of Christianity in general is growing in the UK after decades of decline, driven by growing participation of young adults and young men in particular. The study, based on YouGov surveys commissioned by the Bible Society, also concluded that many young people are seeking community and belief in God and that, in an age of poor mental health, distraction and fragmentation brought by social media, many are interested in prayer and in the Bible. The results of this thorough and robust study demonstrate that, over the space of only six years, there has been a significant growth in the numbers of people going to church. Christians are practicing their religion more intentionally. More young people are finding faith. More people are reading the Bible, the reports Okay so.

Speaker 3: 1:08:24

Reading the Bible, the reports Okay. So this is actually an interesting topic. I don't trust the.

Speaker 5: 1:08:29

Bible society though.

Speaker 2: 1:08:32

That's fine. You know why I think they're wrong here? Because if you count all the gays Gen Z gay people in England, they're basically Anglicans too, so then you probably have more Anglicans than.

Speaker 3: 1:08:43

Catholics. Well, the thing is there is a muslims. Then you know, yeah, there is kind of this resurgence of christianity going on right now and a lot of it. This is kind of like what we were talking about with the father mike, how he missed the ball, and, on fox news, the white pill and it's like nobody's watching fox news.

Speaker 5: 1:09:03

That's under like 50. No, but they had Father.

Speaker 3: 1:09:06

Mike on to ask him why there is this resurgence of young people Now. My daughter texted me yesterday and I sent it to Rob. She goes Dad. You guys should be putting clips of your show on TikTok, because you'll probably blow up.

Speaker 2: 1:09:20

First off, which daughter was this?

Speaker 3: 1:09:21

Sophia, the older one.

Speaker 2: 1:09:26

Sophia, the real question is why do you not follow your?

Speaker 3: 1:09:28

dad's podcast on tiktok.

Speaker 2: 1:09:29

If you did. You would know, I do put clips on there sophia called out wow, I said uh I said.

Speaker 3: 1:09:38

I said we do have a tiktok rob posts as often as he can. I said we're keeping up with so many different things like how the hell do you post? Yeah, like tiktok works where, like you have to post multiple times a day, and stuff like that, but yeah, I don't get the reason she said it is, she goes dad.

Speaker 3: 1:09:51

It's the weirdest thing. Like every single tiktok video that goes out in the comments will have somebody talking about god, no matter what the video topic is. It's like christ is king or you, you read the Bible. This that I'm like it's very Protestant stuff. She was sending me. She sent me like screenshots of all the things she's seen. She's like it's really weird. There's this huge surgence of young people talking about God. So I thought I was like well, are you seeing any Catholic content? She's like I'm not seeing content. I'm seeing comments below things that she would just, you know, check out on tiktok and like it's just all about god in the comments. So, but there is this resurgence of religion. It has a lot to do with, like tom holland's book. I think brought like a little bit of a interest in england, because we're talking about england, so it's um tom holland.

Speaker 2: 1:10:39

Um, I don't think zoomers are reading tom holland I was gonna say I don't think that's connected at all it's not reading.

Speaker 3: 1:10:45

It's that he was on, so I think it's podcasts and stuff, but I think it. It did. He was on so many different shows and then that beyond belief podcast, like they're all talking about this like resurgence of christianity, and even that arc conference that um jordan peterson did. They had bishop baron come and Jonathan Peugeot spoke there. Like those two talks Peugeot and Bishop Barron were the two everybody loved the most because they talked about God.

Speaker 2: 1:11:11

Yeah, but it's again not Zoomers.

Speaker 5: 1:11:14

I think it's a completely different audience. I mean, some of them might be Zoomers, but they'd be like connected Zoomers.

Speaker 4: 1:11:23

I think this is a moment, especially in the report, that it's catholicism, just like a moment to praise god, because it's I mean, england, especially right now, really needs the light of christ.

Speaker 4: 1:11:31

I mean, you know, god always works tragedy for the ultimate good, and so I I just pray that the, the mass amounts of muslims there, come into contact with the truth.

Speaker 4: 1:11:41

Therefore, I say, because I mean that's the ultimate thing, but I think you're I mean anthony, you're right Like the reason so many young guys are all around the world are interested just in religion in general, but especially Christianity, is because, as I've been, the stuff that we've talked about when it comes to just like the kind of over momming, if you will, of society, we see so many guys struggling with things like depression, with insecurities through social media, which is not knowing what masculinity is, and so they're just looking back to saying, okay, what did our grandfathers, our great grandfathers, what was it that they did that made them who they were?

Speaker 4: 1:12:17

How can we be like them? And what's cool about that is it reminds me of St James when he says that he will turn the hearts of the sons into the fathers, the hearts of the fathers into the sons, and I think that what is good about this is that, you know, even though, again, the world as we've talked about can be easy to doom pill like this, is christ pulling new people for his mission into the future, and that's the glorious and a big.

Speaker 3: 1:12:41

A big part of it does have to do with how distorted the anglican church presents christian like the distortion that like they like. They see this disgusting display presenting itself as christianity and they're like all right, if I'm going to have a conversion, I'm not going to go there right.

Speaker 2: 1:12:59

They see everything wrong with the world. Then they go to an anglican church and find out that everything that's wrong with the world is right there too it's almost.

Speaker 3: 1:13:07

It's almost like the birthing place of everything wrong in that anglican church. It's like isn't that true, every single thing. They see. The trans, the gay, the women, the everything that like is distorted at the feminism and things like that are all it's. It is like the church of woke, that freaking anglican church. I don't know how anybody stays in it, like if you have any desire for christianity in england you have to go catholic. It's not like there's an orthodox presence there yeah, well, uh guys, I gotta go.

Speaker 5: 1:13:38

Uh, it was great talking to you guys. It was great being on. Um, I've got to head out.

Speaker 3: 1:13:44

All right.

Speaker 5: 1:13:45

You want to promote anything. My, my sub stack is Palantir's hope and you'll be able to keep up with my, my work there and I'll be posting stuff about future with my, with my novels. I've got a lot of ideas, so there's not. You know, there's going to be plenty of books once things flow, stuff like that. I'm not short of anything like that. But also, if you could pray for my work and pray for my novel writing that I do it correctly and that I do it to the best of my ability, because self-publishing is a bit of a minefield.

Speaker 4: 1:14:29

Yeah, will do, buddy.

Speaker 3: 1:14:31

If you post something on your sub stack, text me and I'll tweet it out for you, bud. Thanks guys.

Speaker 4: 1:14:36

See you.

Speaker 2: 1:14:36

Thanks, Connor.

Speaker 3: 1:14:38

Yeah, like the cesspool that is Anglicanism is just like I don't know. That's why I'll tell you. You want to know who probably has a big effect over there. It's freaking Calvin Robinson.

Speaker 4: 1:14:52

Yeah, he had a huge effect. It was a huge effect.

Speaker 3: 1:14:55

People were exuberant by him speaking out. He was like that whole thing where he spoke out. I forgot what the setting was, but like he had a huge part in like people even discussing that stuff again and he was doing it in front of the Anglican church, which was crazy.

Speaker 4: 1:15:13

Yeah, do you know? You know what I think? One of the reasons why? It's because Calvin Robinson is authentic, like without opening up this door. I'm just using by this as an analogy. It's like when voters were polled, one of the reasons that they voted both for aoc and for trump was because they saw them as authentic.

Speaker 4: 1:15:31

Calvin robertson same thing. It's like you see a guy who's young, he gets up in front of all of oxford right, including a lot of his bishops on the other side, and he says you're wrong. Like god has made marriage between one man, one woman for life. That's what people are wanting. That's what young people want, because to think about this, if you're, you don't have to be young to see this. But if you're young and you're looking up at your elders and you're like, okay, this elder claims that he's part of the one true religion, if you will.

Speaker 4: 1:15:59

But yet at the same time, he violates every single precept of the. And it's not that he's just a sinner trying better, it's that he openly mocks those things. Why should I have any part with that? But then also, at the same thing, you don't want to go where the millennials went. The millennials dove into the third wave atheism, new atheism, right, the Dawkins world. So you look at that and you're like, okay, that doesn't really answer the problems. Like if you say to me things like racism is immoral, but you can't tell me where morality comes from, then what the heck is the purpose?

Speaker 3: 1:16:28

yeah, I think you're right. I think I think the collapse of the new atheism has a big part in this as well. Like because dawkins like spearheaded that whole movement, right, so that whole thing, especially because what that showcased was you get rid of God and then the new religion consumes the new atheist movement, like the woke stuff consumed the new atheist movement. So it's like, oh, you got rid of the Christian God and then all of a sudden, this new God comes in. Like religion is inevitable. It just is, and I think that's a big part of this, right, so religion is inevitable, and I think everyone is seeing that now. So you get rid of one religion and something else comes up in its place.

Speaker 3: 1:17:10

And I think it's kind of impossible after the woke stuff to deny that, like people saw religious imagery in everything those people were doing. It was a religious cult people were doing. It was a religious cult. Even what is it that I just saw recently? Like um, even um. Like I saw something in secular society acting as indulgences. It was like it was in in politics too. It was like, oh, oh, like even the, even the like the carbon carb, like when you could buy offset your carbon footprint.

Speaker 3: 1:17:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah like that's like buying an indulgence for your sin, like if you're into the green movement, right like dude religion like.

Speaker 2: 1:18:00

donations to blm is is reparations is. Donations to BLM is Reparations is basically.

Speaker 3: 1:18:05

Reparations is. Everywhere you look, you see the Catholic religion, and you didn't tweet about it.

Speaker 2: 1:18:14

Brutal.

Speaker 3: 1:18:16

Alright, I suck. What do you guys want from me? Yeah, it's just. Everywhere you look, you see the Catholic faith. It's so interesting how the Catholic faith incorporated all these things because they're actually fundamental to humanity. And then you get Protestants will say things like indulgences. But they have their own form of indulgences. They still. Their tithing becomes indulgences for them. Right, Like they have to tithe, Like they don't believe in works, but they have to tithe, so much so that they're passing credit card readers around at their church. Like that's how bizarre it is in Protestant churches now they pass around a scanner and you literally hold your freaking, your card reader up to it and you give your donation.

Speaker 4: 1:18:57

Did you guys see that video? It was on all social media, like last week, where there was this black pastor who was like I've told the ushers, we're locking the doors. This is like a mega church we're locking the doors until we get the like amount of money that we need oh my gosh, he was passing around I wish I could lock everyone's computer and phone.

Speaker 2: 1:19:17

Watching this right now be like you're stuck on this channel until you give us the money.

Speaker 3: 1:19:22

Yeah, we can't do it on a member show. That's a good point. These poor people are already paying for this trash. Yeah, I just see Catholicism everywhere I look, no matter what I mean. I've talked about this before but even the end of the world because of climate change is just their apocalypse story. It's like they have a religion.

Speaker 4: 1:19:51

You know it's just Banning guns is their version of the forbidden index, all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 3: 1:19:58

Yeah, there's all sorts of ways that man has to account for his sin. Now, in the secular religion they don't account for moral sin the way we would.

Speaker 2: 1:20:08

Grover, there's not enough money in the world bud. Yeah, grover, you're a firebrand dude, everyone is on the lookout for you in the telegram at all times, ready to kill you.

Speaker 3: 1:20:17

No matter how many times you change your name.

Speaker 2: 1:20:21

People have literally been kicked out because they thought they might be grover?

Speaker 4: 1:20:24

that might be grover, let's just be safe and bad um, but it would make sense why all these young guys are leaving that world. Because it's like I I just think of two things that were just so off the wall. I remember like three or four years ago, when the trans stuff really started to be kicking off. They were saying things like if you're a biological male and you're not willing to date a transgendered man, like transgendered female, then you are officially transphobic. So it like got to this point where it's like oh, you're straight, but yet you don't want to be with a guy who thinks he's a woman hater. Okay, it's like what? How are most young guys supposed to react to that?

Speaker 3: 1:21:07

yeah, it's, it's. It's well. What's interesting about that nick? You remember how they were saying uh, if you won't date a trans person, you're homophobic. Yeah, there is this thing where megan kelly came out and she's like why don't young men want to date feminist women? Young men that don't want to date feminist women are wrong. And it's like this is the same argument you're making. It's like no, I don't want to date a girl who acts like a boy, like I don't have any desire to be with a girl who thinks she's like everybody. Look, I was trolling a bit with that, like I do that a lot with the when I see girls doing army stuff and I'm like if you're attracted to this, you're a homosexual. But I am trolling.

Speaker 4: 1:21:50

I got to get on Twitter more.

Speaker 2: 1:21:52

I am, but I'm not. You were supposed to prevent him from doing stuff like this during Lent.

Speaker 4: 1:21:58

I was going to, but then he had this great resolution, this look in his eye.

Speaker 3: 1:22:03

Molly said it. Molly was like let's place bets on when Anthony goes fullback.

Speaker 4: 1:22:08

It lasted for a solid 14 minutes and then it was.

Speaker 3: 1:22:11

I was like no, I did good, I did good for the first two weeks, maybe three, and then the past eight days I just gave up. I was like ah, whatever, I'm just going back to tweeting. But I've been doing good in everything else, like really good in everything else, it's just the tweeting. Just the thing you had the most issues with yes, all right, I'm a weak man. What do you offer me? Twitter is my thing.

Speaker 3: 1:22:36

The Lord has much work to do in your brother, anthony, guys, I don't know what to tell you. So yeah, anthony guys, I don't know what to tell you. So yeah, so, even with that video though I'm kind of half kidding, but it's if you, when I see girls doing things to look bad at like somebody, was like, oh, you don't like physically fit, not about physically fit. I think all women should exercise and be physically fit.

Speaker 2: 1:22:57

Anthony's just jealous.

Speaker 3: 1:22:58

He can't play with guns she's just, it wasn't guns, she was just running the military race and all the men were around her counting her push. I was like you look like a dude to me. I can't understand how anybody and so many of it that reacted to me and like well, like dude, it was men who were in the military, who were wives or marines or things like it's like like you're supposed to be, like alpha male guy. Why are you picking a chick like you're supposed to get like alpha male guy? Why are you picking a chick Like you're supposed to get the most feminine chick?

Speaker 2: 1:23:27

Yeah, he was probably in the Navy, so that makes sense.

Speaker 4: 1:23:30

Well, would he be really married to a lady though? Then, rob, that's the question.

Speaker 3: 1:23:34

Look a lot of people may not like this, but I'm telling you Andrew Wilson has done things in the conversation that he's he, he's so I've always picked up on this but he's showing people that the conservative girls are the real feminists, that they're the actual subversive ones, and it's not the liberal women you have to worry about. It's the conservative feminists that the oxymoron like. It's a contradiction in terms conservative feminists. They are the most dangerous women at the same time.

Speaker 2: 1:24:06

He can't like, he doesn't live. What he, what he preaches.

Speaker 3: 1:24:10

He lets his wife go off and mouth off on twitter all the time yeah, I mean he should, he should get that in check, uh, but he's still pointing out the problem correctly. It's these, it's these women who think, because they voted for trump, that they're conservative and they're not. It's just look. Also the other thing, like I know we have like a no girls rule on this show, but I'm interviewing, uh, katherine bennett you say that, like I'm not gonna be involved uh, well, I, I'm setting it up on there, so I'm just telling you and yes, yes, I, I have that.

Speaker 3: 1:24:49

That's like 50 of it, yeah yeah, all right, I'm all right with that, though I expect that of you good um. I'm glad we have our lane set look, that's kind of well, even with the math father chiron thing, like when father chiron talks about ukraine. I kind of set that aside and I, I I'm like okay, but he's, he's got family in ukraine, like he's ukrainian I kind of give him.

Speaker 3: 1:25:14

I'm gonna let him be wrong about this yeah, no, I do, because he's too close to the situation to you know what I mean. So it's like I have to allow him because I love father chiron. I think he's when he's talking theology and things like that.

Speaker 2: 1:25:25

He's you, you love him because of the lofton thing no, no, I liked him before.

Speaker 3: 1:25:30

That I really did like when he's discussing something like because I have an affinity for east you guys know that I'm not actually, but like, I do, like I, I do like some of the the whatever. Well, I'm not getting into that, but I do like Father Sharon. But if he goes off the rails with Israel in this show talking about the woke right, I'm going to have to have, I'm going to have an opinion on it. It's just impossible to not. Yeah, as long as he doesn't talk about Ukraine, I like him, you know so. But Catherine Bennett I have to to talk to because of the blowback she's receiving from having to be fair, she's only receiving blowback from like one person no, let's, I'm not gonna.

Speaker 3: 1:26:14

Yeah, I mean I. It's not that we we know anything, we just see the public. Yeah, like he put a video out the next day. I I'm guessing there's clearly tension behind the scenes there, but I do want to speak with her and ask her what made her start to feel that she needed to speak out on this issue, because for me, it's been a progression too. I never wanted to touch this issue, I hated this issue, and now I have this thing on my conscience where I'm like I kind of think I have to talk about this. I don't know what to do. So we're going to talk to Catherine Bennett, but I do have one more spicy segment for you guys. I'm saving the best for last. Did you send it to me? I'm sending it to you right now.

Speaker 3: 1:26:57

Oh, you mean I didn't even get a warning. I didn't even give you guys a warning on this one, and Nick you're going to be in trouble when we talk about this boy. Oh, you're going to be in trouble when we talk about this Nick. We will not release this segment publicly. Okay, I'll give you that Famous last words. I mean, it's going to gonna be a good segment. So Ruslan Decided to talk.

Speaker 3: 1:27:29

Oh, no, no no, we're going to talk about this. He decided to talk about the race question. Oh, okay, he decided to dive into the Controversy that Matt Fradd Not Matt Fradd, matt Walsh Discussed with two teenagers. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, the black teenager that stabbed the white teenager at the track meet. So the clip is sending. It's just taking a minute. Hang on, wait, it didn't go through. I don't know why.

Speaker 2: 1:27:57

Molly, at this point, you still don't know who Ruslan is. Why is this not going through?

Speaker 4: 1:28:05

Don't worry, molly, it's okay, I give you grace. People need to be off the internet way more these days. I think In for no Good clarification, tommy. Good clarification.

Speaker 3: 1:28:22

So, ruslan, this really isn't going to go public because I don't, but what happened was I. Matt Walsh wrote his tweet about black men being quick to violence, and Ruslan responded to Matt Walsh and said you know you can't lump all black people together. What if we said I don't know why this direct message is not rob, I can't send it there for some reason. Can I text it to you? Maybe not, if you want it on?

Speaker 3: 1:28:54

the screen which would be no. Well, maybe you could send it somewhere. Is what I'm saying, because maybe it's my internet connection. I can't figure out why it's not working then text isn't gonna work you can't send it from your text to the dm?

Speaker 2: 1:29:09

but if it's your internet connection, text isn't gonna work let's see if that's what it is.

Speaker 4: 1:29:13

I don't know what it is the most spicy clip, best for last, talking about internet providers um, let me know if you get it if it's so good, anthony, I can always. I mean, I'll stick around for this conversation because I think it's interesting, but if it's like so good you want to put it public, I can dip right now if you want.

Speaker 3: 1:29:31

No I'll keep it private because I don't want to. I don't want to, I don't want to. Um well, let's see how it goes.

Speaker 4: 1:29:37

If you're comfortable with it, we'll put it the topic in and of itself is not, and I do believe in being authentic.

Speaker 3: 1:29:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah, see if you can send it to the DM. So Matt Walsh wrote his tweet talking about how Black men are quick to violence and Ruslan responded by saying this is unfair, to say that Black men in general are, or this is like because the conversation came up about black culture, Okay, and he's like you can't just say black culture glorifies this, it's not black culture, things like that. And I responded he said so what if you look down, break down the stats and you see that all school shooters are white and you break down the stats and you see that all the funny thing is the majority of school shooters are black.

Speaker 3: 1:30:32

Are black because he's talking about the standard school shooting.

Speaker 2: 1:30:35

Well, yeah, he's talking about the ones he wants to pick out.

Speaker 3: 1:30:38

Right. And also he said most serial killers are white. He said most pedophiles are white. Now okay fine.

Speaker 2: 1:30:46

Actually, per capita, blacks are more likely to be serial killers. Once again, every stat he comes up with is wrong.

Speaker 3: 1:30:52

So even if he's right, though, the amount these things are happening do not compare to what we're like. We see videos every single day of black people being violent, and in groups a lot of times. I mean anytime you have a gathering of black people, you see violence. So my point was, I said, ruslan, this is actually a very naive argument. Ruslan, this is actually a very naive argument. The fact is, everything about black culture glorifies violence, degenerate behavior. It's even in their language, the way they speak, like their, their slang, like everything about American black culture glorify. It's not just hip hop. So Nick Fuentes is kind of going going off and saying this is genetic. I don't, I don't know, I don't think, I don't care, it's not about that. Regardless of any of that, it's not race. This isn't a race issue. It is a culture issue, because when everything in your culture glorifies gang violence, stealing, like, I've seen things working in the city.

Speaker 2: 1:32:08

So when I said that, privately, so he I'm putting this up here just so Anthony can't use this as a clip just to show Ruslan.

Speaker 3: 1:32:15

So he messaged me privately and he goes hey man, do you think this is a race issue, Like do you think fundamentally, black people are predisposed to violence? And I said, no, I think it's a culture issue. I think it's a culture issue.

Speaker 2: 1:32:28

Well, culture can predispose them to violence.

Speaker 3: 1:32:31

Okay, that's fine, but I think it's a culture issue. Like I don't even want to dive into the genetics thing, I just even if that is the case genetics thing.

Speaker 3: 1:32:41

I I just even even if that is the case, what is the culture is part of race. Yeah, well the okay. So what I see in the city is starting from when black children are young. They're in single mother households and if you guys ever saw the way black women treat their children, you'd be appalled. The way they speak to them, the quickness to violence with young black boys is like you'd be shocked the way the things that I see. I've had black guys jump on the side of my truck and attack me through the truck because they thought I cut them off in traffic. Like the quickness to violence is a very real thing. You see, anytime something even gets heated, it's like this quickness to violence, not even like it's this incident that started this conversation.

Speaker 2: 1:33:35

It does not seem to really have been heated at all, like you know the guy touched his bag and the kids snapped up.

Speaker 3: 1:33:42

So play the play the roussillon clip because I want to talk about like what he kind of takes out of. I only clipped a minute of it, but he does like a whole segment talking about this. You can't stand this guy like a budget center.

Speaker 2: 1:33:53

Exit every mother okay.

Speaker 6: 1:33:58

So what I'm saying is. What I'm saying is the there's multiple crimes I could point to that are disproportionately white men. I'm not going to say that this is an issue with white culture. If we look at the people who consumed Howard Stern in the late 90s, in the early 2000s where there was where there was him talking about finding 13 year olds hot, when there was all kinds of weird stuff that Howard Stern was saying and the vast majority of that audience was white men a disproportionate number of that audience and entertaining that sort of stuff was white men, just straight, weird old behavior. I'm not gonna say that that is, then, indicative of all white men or most white men. Why? Because there's a small number of white men that commit a large number of the beast cases, road rage cases, the school cases. Is he really?

Speaker 2: 1:34:45

comparing road rage to one in 20 black men committing murder in their lives.

Speaker 3: 1:34:50

Not just that, he's talking about one shock jock of one show and the men who we don't have an entire culture.

Speaker 4: 1:34:58

Yeah, it's a horror.

Speaker 3: 1:34:59

That's actually I mean I would it's the worst straw man argument I think I've ever heard. It's very. We are talking about the music alone. When you get, if you've ever read cardi b lyrics or heard Cardi B lyrics, they are the most vile, disgusting words you'll ever hear in your life. Like I've been in places where I mean I'm in the city and you hear people blasting this music, you cannot imagine the things that they're talking about. They all just the idea of having several baby mamas, the idea of having several baby daddies, is totally normal and accepted, and just this is what. This is what black culture in America has become, and I'm not saying it's not been purposely influenced this way and I'm not saying that there isn't, you know, certain segments that are maybe pushing this music on these people but I'm curious to, I'm curious to learn what segment you think is pushing this on people.

Speaker 3: 1:36:06

But the point is when you have an entire Because look what we don't grasp as white culture, like as whites, however you want to put that Like I'm Italian Nick's yeah, you're not white, whatever you are. I'm kidding. I'm American, that's you are I'm kidding, I'm american, but what we don't? Because you'd be more spanish than mexican. I'm just kidding um what, what we look.

Speaker 3: 1:36:30

So white kids will hear black music and it's not the same thing as black culture. Like their whole culture is revolved around this music. This music is their church, it is their religion. Like they, you identity. It is their identity. Rap music Like you, you don't know how important it is to black culture. It is everything Like it is there. It is there Gregorian chant and when that is all that's being pumped into you and every single song is about robbing people, killing people, being a you know, standing up and not taking crap from anybody. It has such an effect on you and it does affect white culture. There are subsets of white culture who are affected by this music and you get wiggers and you get white kids trying to act like that and they go around being violent too, you know, but not at the same rate no, not at the same.

Speaker 3: 1:37:22

I'm talking. So I said subsets of white culture.

Speaker 2: 1:37:25

I know, but I'm saying even those subsets do not commit violence.

Speaker 3: 1:37:28

At the same, rate no, and not, not killing. They don't have a blatant disregard for human life.

Speaker 4: 1:37:33

He's just saying the. He's just saying the.

Speaker 2: 1:37:35

Uh, the elements of the culture bled into right, they have, even when I was a kid, but clearly they can't explain at all yeah, exactly no, I'm just trying to make a point about the music itself.

Speaker 3: 1:37:46

When I was a kid like me, and my friends were wiggers, bro, like, wore the clothes like that we called each other. The n word like this is this is how I grew up in suburban long island and we would get in fights all the time because you're just italian no, it wasn't an italian thing.

Speaker 3: 1:38:06

It was like my subset of friends growing up from like 15 to 19, like that whole period of time when I was getting in trouble doing all that bad stuff, like the music had such a big part of it. It just did. No, I'm not saying the music is the only factor. It's not even close to the only factor. It's the entire culture that is degenerate. It's just degenerate, it glorifies degeneracy.

Speaker 4: 1:38:32

Yeah, I mean ultimately. I mean what's so sad about this? I've seen some people say it in the chat, but I mean at its core. So much of it goes back down to just the loss of the father being in the household, yeah, and then and then just the loss of, I mean, I mean I'm not saying that's the only thing it's not.

Speaker 3: 1:38:48

I'm just saying it's because even when the fathers were in the home, the fathers glorified this culture too, around the kids like it's it's, it's so much, it is a very big factor. But you can't just put black fathers in the home and think this is not the only issue.

Speaker 4: 1:39:04

That's what I'm saying like.

Speaker 4: 1:39:05

But if you look at the history, what I'm saying is that when you look at particularly the 40s, 50s, you don't see this insane amount of crime rates, because what you do see is, for instance, where does gang culture come from? Gang culture comes from the? Uh, typically oftentimes black kids in large cities not being allowed to join things like the Boy Scouts, and so they went and formed their own groups, and so that's how the Bloods and the Crips started. It was two groups of kids that weren't allowed to join. They kind of formed their own gangs and then eventually the whole war took off and that's how you saw the rise of rap culture and stuff.

Speaker 4: 1:39:35

But during that whole time you saw massive amounts of fathers leave, single motherhood rates skyrocket, abortion skyrocket, and so around this you have, as you've said, anthony, a culture of degeneracy which has formed, which glorifies, uh, degenerate behavior, glorifies murder and things along that sort, and so what ends up happening is that when you have this poor boy who gets stabbed, what I think questionably makes me even more mad is not even just the boy being stabbed, but the amount of people defending the stabbing, like we've seen it out now with this case.

Speaker 6: 1:40:08

There's so many people who are defending him.

Speaker 4: 1:40:11

Yeah, it's the same and ironically, it's the same people who are also praising the shooter of the health care CEO. But it's like I mean, they're glorifying this behavior, but these again, it shouldn't surprise us. This is the same group of people that, back in 2020, were rioting around the place right, burning buildings and all kinds of stuff, and it goes to the cores of communities when I was a Protestant right In the early portion of 2020. And that was when I was converting right to the Catholic church. But one of the last times that I went to our Protestant charismatic service was right as that old stuff was happening and what took place was insane.

Speaker 4: 1:40:47

This pastor gets up, right, white pastor, young guy probably in his mid thirties. He gets up and he tells the entire audience. We, as white people, need to check our privilege and we need to listen to the grievances of our black brothers and sisters, because this was a hate crime. And I was the only guy. It was filled with college students, all these college students. They're all like yeah, yeah, absolutely, pastor, absolutely. I was the only guy who said in the meeting do we even know that this was a hate crime? Because last time I checked, the cop is married to an asian lady, not really a great defender of the Aryan race. If you had to go down that stick.

Speaker 3: 1:41:23

Yeah, their definition of a hate crime is so bizarre at this point, so broad.

Speaker 2: 1:41:27

So for me, though, the thing that makes this a hard discussion, makes it almost a pointless discussion, is no one ever talks about like what do we do?

Speaker 4: 1:41:38

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 1:41:39

Right, like, what do we do exactly? Right, we're all so busy we're worrying about what caused it, or because you know some people are racist but and some people really don't want to seem racist, so they're not. So, but like, who cares, what do we do about it?

Speaker 4: 1:41:51

I agree, I fully agree. What I think needs to be done and I'm not trying to blow my own trumpet here, but it's like one of the things I've dreamed about if I am to get into politics is one of the big things I want to push is education reform in this particular area of promoting virtue again in schools.

Speaker 4: 1:42:08

In up until the 1950s we actually taught virtues in schools right and it was promoted and there was a sense of dignity and honor that was at least cultural they don't go to school not, but my whole point is just, this whole discussion we're having is just one element of a larger societal collapse of us, just as a culture rejecting God, and so I think that all of these areas, ultimately the answer to all of these areas is the gospel right. That's the ultimate answer to all of these things.

Speaker 4: 1:42:37

How that practically falls out, I think is a lot of times just through education and through people actually going out of their way and saying like, do we mentor people? Do we build up mentorship programs where we get these people?

Speaker 3: 1:42:48

well, rob, you're asking like, what do we do about it?

Speaker 2: 1:42:51

I think the first thing is we stop being afraid to have the conversation right, like that's step one, like you stop, obviously, ultimately we they, you know they need conversion. I get that like that's the ultimate goal. How do I protect my family in the meantime without being declared a racist for saying I don't want to interact with certain groups of people because one in 20 of them is gonna kill someone in their life?

Speaker 3: 1:43:14

okay. So I think what matt walsh did the other day is actually huge because he had a very blatant, bold conversation. He's pretty mainstream. So when you get to the point where somebody that mainstream just gets up and says we're sick of this, like something needs to be done because this issue has been coddled for so long, that you're it's just been coddled for so long and it's like we're afraid to even say like this culture is vicious man.

Speaker 3: 1:43:46

It is scary, like when you see the kind of stuff that's happening in interstate and don't tell me it's because of poverty, because it's not, because when you look at poor white neighborhoods they're not killing like that.

Speaker 2: 1:43:57

Right you go to the middle of appalachia, which is the the poorest, most you know drug riddled area in the in white america, and the people there are generally pretty good people there's drugs there and things like that, but they're not going to kill you go to go to mississippi because it's like mississippi, you have whites and blacks in the same states, the poorest state in the union, even though it's politically one of the bases.

Speaker 4: 1:44:22

Uh, and you have the same issue, right? Why is it that one community is going about committing these acts of violence and then their neighbors in two, two neighborhoods, over same economic status or not?

Speaker 3: 1:44:35

there's. There's something that, like this, has to be able to be talked about, and it's not because we dislike the people, it's not because we're judging individuals. It's because there is this glorification of sexual degeneracy and violence on a level that's incomprehensible. I mean there's, there's, no, there's no, there's not even like black leaders talking about this. Anyway, there used to be, there used to be black leaders who would speak out and say you shouldn't be letting them listen to rap music and we should let you, don't hear that anymore.

Speaker 3: 1:45:08

It completely flipped, like you, if you listen to Don Lemon from 20, 20 years ago, he was talking about fatherlessness and he was talking about all these issues that we knew were going to lead to mayhem, and now everybody's afraid to even mention it because you can't talk about race, and it's just gotten to the point where I mean they're heroes like this is. This is actually a beautiful example of why we have the saints right, because the saints are what we're supposed to be looking to. To exemplify what they have are gangster rappers and basketball players who all end up in jail for beating their wives or stealing or selling drugs. Like these are their role models. These are their saints.

Speaker 4: 1:45:49

Yeah well, I think here's a good question for you. Do you think walsh is coming out having this conversation because he realizes that, in particular, my generation is already having this conversation?

Speaker 3: 1:46:02

that's the thing he's trying to have it in a more reasonable way, right even five years ago when, when the zoomers weren't influential at all it would have never.

Speaker 4: 1:46:12

It would never cross his mind yeah, because it's like, like my generation, I can sit down at any restaurant with the friends after mass, I can go on youtube, I can go on twitter wherever and can go on Twitter wherever, and people are openly saying two things. They're having conversations about ethnicity and then they're also saying why is it that we, as people of European descent, have been so maligned for so long? It's the same mentality that why you're seeing a lot of people go to the church. It's basically, you see this like leftist pagan starving culture over here that's belittled people for so long nick, oh am I no, anthony was you're good now

Speaker 2: 1:46:50

okay we think it was you.

Speaker 3: 1:46:52

Yeah, it's oh, it was okay, um, you're good so the thing is, you're kind of look, you guys say what you want about Fuentes. The kid sets conversations. Oh yeah, no.

Speaker 4: 1:47:06

I don't deny that the kid is fearless.

Speaker 3: 1:47:08

He's like I mean the things he's saying. He's like white people break their ass, go to work and drive two hours to go to work, all so that they don't have to live around this. That's literally what I do, dude. I drive. It's like two hours home sometimes because my I have to commute from the city because I want to. I don't want my family anywhere near that culture yeah, the.

Speaker 2: 1:47:34

It's like that tweet. I saw the. Basically, the story of the real estate market in the second half of the 20th century was where can I live? That is away from these people. That isn't a four-hour drive to work that's it, that is the.

Speaker 3: 1:47:47

That is the.

Speaker 2: 1:47:48

It's like okay, how can I get away from this dude like so my I literally, if I had it moved four hours away from my home in 2019, my wife, who would have been pregnant at the time, would have been driving on those freeways where they were riding and shutting down the freeways in 2020. Can you imagine that?

Speaker 3: 1:48:09

dude, my, when we go to the city, even when we go to holy innocence, to go to mass, like I have a conversation with my family, like, if you like, if you see somebody that looks unwell, whether it's a homeless person or something, like you have to like, don't, do not ever have an altercation with anybody in the city. Like don't you, it'll, it won't go well. Do not ever have an altercation, I don't care what happens. Turn, turn the other cheek and walk away like it's just not worth it. I never have road rage in the city because you never know who the hell's pulling up on you.

Speaker 2: 1:48:45

You, you can't even touch it. You can't touch someone else's backpack now without getting stabbed in the heart.

Speaker 3: 1:48:50

It's crazy man.

Speaker 4: 1:48:51

I'm telling you like this, this, this is just hopefully this case is just a rallying cry, because again it's like our society needs major healing and just saying, let's not talk.

Speaker 2: 1:49:04

The problem is, I think this case could be the opposite.

Speaker 4: 1:49:07

No, exactly, I unfortunately think that, well, here's what I think it could be, as you're saying, like a big divider, but maybe even out of that great divide can at least come awareness from just even just like white people, just kind of like being like okay, yeah, this, this stuff needs to be talked about. I'm just saying that maybe it will at least move the ball to where we can actually have more conversations about it. Yeah, because the past.

Speaker 3: 1:49:30

The past 15 years have been oh my gosh, I can't touch this subject, I'm gonna get canceled, but cancel culture seems to be over now and it's like like you would have been canceled for that conversation matt walsh had five years ago four years ago, you know, you couldn't even have that during blm and stuff like that like it's it's cancel. Culture seems to be over and it seems like it's okay to have at least rational discussions, but I mean you can't say this stuff went as is saying on youtube, but you can start to talk about some of the difficulties of. I mean, this is what happens when you allow your borders to open up and you allow other cultures to come in. It's like what is going to unite us as a people? I don't know. And the thing is there is something to guys. You need Lila Rose on here to help you understand the George Floyd movement. Look, there is something to me and Bobby were talking about this today.

Speaker 3: 1:50:27

All right, so I hate the term woke, right, I really do. I hate that. James Lindsay came up with that. I hate his premise, everything. But there is a group of young white men who are like oh, you guys want to play the woke game identity politics. We're going to play it and we're going to win. And they're now identifying as white males and going. You've been telling us for how long that we are the? L, we are the ills of society and we're the problem with everything. Well, now, guess what? We're going to stand up for us the problem was never identity politics.

Speaker 2: 1:50:59

People have identities, right, you have your culture, you have your nation, you have your people. You have identities. The problem was making up identities and then playing politics according to that. You know what I mean. The problem wasn't identity politics it was their identities.

Speaker 3: 1:51:17

I don't think there's ever been a white identity in America, though the question is should there even really been a white identity in america, though?

Speaker 2: 1:51:23

like well, you have some questions like should there even really be a white?

Speaker 3: 1:51:25

I shouldn't like I think you have. You should have a, like you have an attack, like it used to be, like, especially in new york. That's really all I know. But you'd have, like the what the italian neighborhood, you'd have the polish neighborhood and like they may all be white, but there's different cultures within that that.

Speaker 2: 1:51:39

I would say the white identity has been forced. It's been forced to be created because of all the opposition to white people.

Speaker 4: 1:51:50

I would say that and I'd add one factor, which would be I think that historically, the United States saw its identity as white European. Because when you go back to the original like, I think it's like 1789 or 1790 statute on who is an american, you know, is the famous, you're a white male who owns property, and that stays the same all the way until, essentially, the civil war. And then, even until then, like, like, asians weren't allowed to become citizens of the united states until the 50s. You know, it's like that wasn't even that long ago.

Speaker 4: 1:52:23

And so point is, it's just, I personally think again, and I'm trying to not make this a race issue because, again, like, to me, races don't exist, ethnicities, but like a species, doesn't exist. But I just don't know how you can have a zillion and one different cultures in the same country. Like we know, this doesn't work, because, look, when you shove the native american tribes together and say, get along, it doesn't work. When you shove the african tribes together into countries, it doesn't work. When you shove the iraqis together after they did world war one, it doesn't work. We're having the same problem now. I, I do think there is an american.

Speaker 3: 1:52:53

White people are getting along, the white europeans are getting along, just no, exactly there's no division.

Speaker 4: 1:52:58

Only after world war ii only after world war ii, because there's a lot, there's a lot of marxism that that's tied into this overarching story of being going into schools, going into colleges and being like you guys have been the oppressors, so now you need to basically flagellate yourself, you're right?

Speaker 3: 1:53:14

because there used to be like real enmity between the italians and the irish Polish and like you couldn't go into their neighborhoods in New York if you weren't one of them Like and it wasn't just white black, it was very distinctly your ethnicity. They would, they would like the Germans live with the Germans and the.

Speaker 2: 1:53:35

So, like in my town growing up, you know town of 20,000, not so not a big city, but not a super small town, but it was a town of mostly immigrants who were working the stockyards that were there, and you had your bosnian hall, your croatian hall, your polish national, you know allegiance hall, all these different little ethnic halls that everyone would go hang out at because you, you, you weren't going to hang out at the other. You know the other group's place.

Speaker 3: 1:54:02

Oh, he sends a bunch of Yankees trying to solve a problem they created.

Speaker 6: 1:54:05

Of course, the issue then said what?

Speaker 3: 1:54:06

happened.

Speaker 4: 1:54:07

Are you calling me a Yankee? Do you want to see what's behind my head right now?

Speaker 6: 1:54:12

You're talking about me. Okay, I was about to be like.

Speaker 3: 1:54:16

The English aren't in charge of it anymore.

Speaker 4: 1:54:21

Calling me a Yankeees fighting words man.

Speaker 3: 1:54:23

Honestly, this was the best segment of the show. We should have started with this. What did you want to do with the Connor? Oh man, all right, we're going to wrap this one. Get some sleep tonight, but all right. So Tuesday All right, nick, we talked to Nick behind the scenes, so here's the deal. So Tuesday all right, nick, we talked to Nick behind the scenes, so here's the deal. Nick is going to probably just come on these members shows and when we have good segments, we're like we're going to release the segment of the Anglican, catholic Anglican thing. That'll be a segment and maybe we'll do the Atlantic article or something like that, maybe just the Anglican one.

Speaker 2: 1:54:53

That's probably the best the Atlantic one sucked yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:54:57

The entire one.

Speaker 2: 1:54:58

The Dire Wolves. One was kind of funny, though, honestly.

Speaker 4: 1:55:01

What was the funniest thing was Anthony and you trying to figure out what the heck Connor had and like going on for 15 minutes of awkward Like speculation.

Speaker 3: 1:55:12

He really made that awkward though.

Speaker 2: 1:55:14

I'm not trying to, but it was funny.

Speaker 3: 1:55:17

You need to release that he kind of made that a little awkward. I'm not taking blame for that one, Greg. I have to get up in the morning for work.

Speaker 3: 1:55:29

Nick's going to join us for the member shows because, especially this Tuesday coming up, I'm going to, I'm guessing, have clips of Matt Fratt and Father Chiron. We're going to have to talk about the jq again because everywhere I look, you got douglas murray and dave smith talking about it, you got catholic unscripted talking about you. I mean, it's just everywhere I freaking look this thing. So I guys I'm sorry I know this topic gets tiresome, but it's gonna wish a major war would break up before tuesday, so we could talk about that, or something.

Speaker 3: 1:56:01

It's gonna be a theme for a couple of weeks.

Speaker 4: 1:56:03

That's all I'm saying I'll, when everything quads down, I'll say, I'll definitely pop in on a tuesday or two if there's just like good average yeah, well, this coming tuesday is gonna be gonna be.

Speaker 3: 1:56:13

This coming tuesday is gonna be a little bit of an issue for you, so I don't think you should go on that one.

Speaker 4: 1:56:16

Well, you know, the thing is is it's like the. The cool thing is is, if this conversation continues to be pushed forward which it is then it's like I don't have to worry because it's like you know me, it's like I actually don't mind having. You're not bringing father altman on now for our sanity, we will not, so but uh, yeah, no, this was uh, this was fun I. I just want to say I'm, I missed you too.

Speaker 3: 1:56:37

Like yeah, me too man that's why because you couldn't make it Tuesday, or even I think you, it's been like two episodes.

Speaker 4: 1:56:44

It was three. First one I was ill with just these allergies in Texas. Second one was you guys were doing trivia and I was just like I just can't do that. And then third one, I was just it's, it's been finals.

Speaker 2: 1:56:55

You should have come on and just destroyed those other Zoomers.

Speaker 4: 1:56:59

Was it a fun show at least.

Speaker 2: 1:57:01

They sucked, I mean, at trivia. They're good guys, they're good guys, but they were so bad at trivia. You guys are starting Catholic podcasts and you don't know any of these answers.

Speaker 4: 1:57:13

Oh, brother, you'll have to send me the link. We do love those guys, but yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:57:19

Yeah, we do. They need to study their catechism. Oh oh, you should have been having trivia.

Speaker 4: 1:57:26

It was so boring I could have been lived it up a bit. I guess, rob, what you need to do is you need to make amends with the pipe cottage guy, and I want to have him on because I I've been reading shelby foot. I want to talk about the civil war.

Speaker 3: 1:57:43

That's my mind all, all his novus auto principle goes out the window of his civil war talk. That's what I've learned.

Speaker 2: 1:57:50

Yeah right, I'm not even like the ssbx supremacist over here, I'm like I don't want to talk to that modernist that's so funny no um, we should try, jeb smith modernist.

Speaker 3: 1:58:04

That's so funny. No, um, we should try jeb smith, it's an author. Um, steve, it's the agony in the garden. Todd, knock it off. Yeah, that's right, they didn't know the first sorrowful mystery nick.

Speaker 2: 1:58:09

No, they didn't know the first station.

Speaker 3: 1:58:10

Oh no, first station I was texting you and todd and I go isn't it the same as the? As, that's right, it's. It's Jesus. The first station is Jesus condemned and the first sorrowful mystery is Jesus in the garden. But I got I got like confused in the text message.

Speaker 2: 1:58:26

Yeah, yeah. Afterwards I can't believe they didn't know that it's just the first sorrowful mystery. And. Todd and I are like no it's not, I'm sorry, it's the second sorrowful mystery.

Speaker 3: 1:58:42

All. It's the second. All right, so we're gonna wrap this up. We will see you guys on Tuesday and get ready for more JQ talk. We'll see you guys.

Speaker 2: 1:58:47

Francis, please come out with another terrible document we can talk about instead we're gonna have fun talking about.

Speaker 3: 1:58:54

Maybe we'll see if I can get a guest for that one.

Speaker 2: 1:58:56

We'll see a guest for the maybe Bobby will come on for the JQ. Yeah, I'm sure the Maybe Bobby will come on.

Speaker 3: 1:59:03

Yeah, I'm sure the literal Talk about the.

Speaker 2: 1:59:04

Byzantine priest.

Speaker 3: 1:59:06

Come on, bobby. Come on and talk about the Byzantine priest with us. That'll get you in good with him. Alright, guys, we will see you guys on Tuesday. Thank you.