Avoiding Babylon
Avoiding Babylon was started during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic. During these difficult and dark days, when most of us were isolated from family, friends, our parishes, and even the Sacraments themselves, this channel was started as a statement of standing against the tyrannical mandates that many of us were living under. Since those early days, this channel has morphed into an amazing community of friends…no…more than friends…Christian brothers and sisters…who have grown in joy and charity.
As we see it, our job here at Avoiding Babylon is to remind ourselves and those who enjoy the channel that being Catholic is a joyful and exciting experience. We seek true Catholic fraternity and eutrapelia with other Catholics who, like us, are doing their best to live out their vocation with the help of God’s Grace. Above all, we try to bring humor and joy to the craziness of this fallen world, for as Hillaire Belloc has famously said:
“Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s always laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!”
Avoiding Babylon
The Thing that Almost ENDED Avoiding Babylon
What happens when Catholic content creators remove their masks and speak from the heart? In this revealing members-only conversation, we explore the messy reality behind Catholic media partnerships and the profound spiritual journeys that unfold behind the scenes.
The discussion opens unexpected doors as Nick shares his aspirations to potentially run for governor of Texas one day, prompting a candid conversation about balancing public Catholic commentary with future political ambitions. This leads to thoughtful reflection on when to speak boldly and when restraint might be the wiser path.
Most powerfully, a raw testimony emerges about personal transformation through unexpected means. "This show saved me from drug addiction," one host reveals, explaining how the commitment to regular broadcasting became God's instrument for maintaining sobriety and spiritual growth. "I haven't had a slip-up in three years... not one," he shares, attributing this directly to the grace that flowed through this ministry.
Perhaps most revealing is the honest account of a controversy that nearly destroyed the podcast entirely. The hosts recount how a disagreement about co-sleeping spiraled into such tension that they continued broadcasting for months while barely speaking off-air. This story of conflict and eventual reconciliation demonstrates the real human relationships behind Catholic media—complete with hurt feelings, harsh words, and the beautiful mess of forgiveness.
Throughout the conversation runs a thread of genuine friendship, spiritual growth, and commitment to serving others through content that matters. As Catholic media continues to expand, this behind-the-scenes look reminds us that authentic discipleship happens not on perfect platforms but in the crucible of real relationship.
Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/
Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/
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Sancte, sancte.
Speaker 2:Amare morti necradas nos In taste for a world, that's hilarious, that's really funny.
Speaker 4:You said, taffy did that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, taffy made that. So this backstory to this though. Okay, so, since this is members only, only we can talk about some stuff like this. I hope you guys know, like, what we're going to do with these members shows is give you guys stuff that we would never say on a typical show. It'll be like a local show light, and then when we leave the members youtube, we'll go to locals so these shows still will be part youtube and then part locals.
Speaker 1:Only because we will still get strikes for certain things on even youtube members only but on this version we can tell a little backstory to this video.
Speaker 2:So here's. Here's what happened after. After the show we did with Mike Pantilei the other night, the picture kept coming up. So I said I said I couldn't quite put my finger on why everybody was upset about that picture and I said and then I sent a screenshot of the friends, like the end of the opener to friends, friends were all it's like rachel ross and all them, and I'm like, I'm like dude. This is why everybody hated that picture reminded everybody of friends. Like you didn't know that's what it was, but that's what it was and it's about a bunch of 30 something sleeping around with each other and just doing not?
Speaker 1:not that that has anything to do with the actual picture, correct?
Speaker 2:yes, it, yes, it was just that's the feel. Had that feel and that's what was a bit more interesting. That was the optics of it, right? So, all right Now, so we can highlight comments on the YouTube. So if you're a YouTube member, we can highlight your comments. If you're a Locals member, we're going to read your comments and we're gonna pay attention to them yeah, I am looking at them but so okay, so I said so.
Speaker 2:I say, rob, honestly, what would be amazing is if you put the friends theme as the background and then pull a clip from each one of these creators, put it up and then finish it with the picture of them all at that studio, and I'm like I guess it's too time consuming. I know I'm giving you a toll on you guys. No, I think I could do it I was.
Speaker 1:I was homesick from work, so I'm like sure yo.
Speaker 2:Literally a half hour later, rob said do you have that video? Uh you gotta play it. I mean, I think I do okay, so this is the video rob came up with hold on. Let me search no, it was never meant to like insult them, it was just. Here's the thing I.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't make that for anyone. I disliked. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like well, well, I wouldn't take the time because we're not like real friends with these people. We couldn't release it like we couldn't, because it would look bad yeah, but like if it was like if that video was really about like jason and mark and like, like our friends, like because I would have totally done that for jason mark too exactly like we would release it.
Speaker 2:It would be like not even worried if it what it looks like, because it would just be funny to rib on your friends like that. So rob makes the video. It was hilarious and I'm like it's in poor taste if we release it so we'll look at it the wrong way.
Speaker 2:Well, granted, they probably looked at the wrong way when we gave it to majorian, so so I contact majorian and I go yeah, we got a gift video, but it's it just sucks because, like, first off, all right, we'll give you also a little bit more backstory too, do we want? To watch it first yeah, you gotta play it. It's funny, buddy, that's amazing where did you find that?
Speaker 1:just on her profile, the friends. I didn't even realize I covered Franco's face.
Speaker 2:The friends at the end Is what makes it. So Rob makes that, and I throw it to Majority, because I'm like, well, you started the conversation, so we'll let you release it. But I gave him very specific instructions. I said do not release this, maliciously Release it and say, hey, I hope you guys understand. This is all in good fun, no hard feelings, but it's just funny. And he did. I'll tell you, though, man, um, release it and say, hey, I hope you guys understand. This is all in good fun, no hard feelings, but it's just funny.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you, though, man, I think Franco has a good sense of humor. He kind of leans into the things that people are making fun of. He leans into it. He doesn't back off and get upset about it. Cameron Riker does too, and I don't really care what religion is it being? Um, okay, so also, um, someone, someone that was at that conference, reached out to us. We're not going to say who or anything, but, um, the somebody who was in that picture. Somebody was in that picture. They and, uh, they, we were talked about there, and we're not like, like, we're not like by one person anyway.
Speaker 1:But but the guy who reached out to us, he liked us. Yeah, cool guy.
Speaker 2:He likes us a lot.
Speaker 1:He might even be on a show in the future.
Speaker 2:We don't want to blow up who it was. Well, I'm not saying names. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right.
Speaker 4:It wasn't that photo, so we'll figure it out.
Speaker 2:But yeah, me and Rob had an hour conversation with somebody yesterday. It was pretty cool. It was like he gave us a little bit of insight of what they went like, what they did there. Um, I'm pretty sure it was a live action event and they just invited a bunch of catholic content creators and then they, they all sat down for a podcast. It was kind of like whatever style, where they all just sat in a circle and discussed controversial subjects. So there's going to be a podcast release from it. Um, we'll have to keep an eye out for that. We'll watch it and then the.
Speaker 1:Uh, the photo that came out today is actually the the one that was released originally, like whatever. I didn't have a real problem with it. It wasn't my cup of tea, but whatever, the one that released today I actually have more of a problem with. Have you seen that one?
Speaker 2:yeah, I like the performative prayer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it and it's, and like, like, um, like what Josiah brought up, it's, it's optics. If they literally posed to, you know, posed like they're praying for a photo.
Speaker 2:I know, I think I think they were praying, if they were praying in a photo happened to be. Yeah, if they were praying and a photo happened to be taken, yeah, I think that's what happened. I think that's what happened. I do think that's what happened. I think they were praying and somebody snapped the photo. I don't think they were fake. I think there was genuinely a prayer happening. I still think releasing the photo is a bit, I don't know. It just seems so Protestant to me.
Speaker 1:I don't know Whatever, who cares?
Speaker 2:I don't want. Well, it's like those prayer meetings in the white house right by paula white. It's yeah, that feel to it, paula. Yeah, um. So, nick, the last time we talked you had mentioned did you say it on air what your future plans are you mean career plans?
Speaker 4:yeah, I I honestly forget, but I can tell people now if you want, yeah, why?
Speaker 2:don't you tell people what your future plans are? And then I want to ask you a couple of things, and and and see how. See how that goes.
Speaker 4:Yeah, sure. So long-term future plans at the moment are, I think that. So I basically have two options in front of me the teaching career and the political career. The teaching career is going to be open for me but, in all honesty, talking with a lot of good professors who some of which you guys might actually know because they are kind of larger names in the conservative and traditional circles, who are good professors of theology, they have all told me that still, when you go to Catholic universities, still to this point, it is just a cesspool for anybody who has the Orthodox faith to try to become a professor and have tenure there. It's kind of depressing.
Speaker 4:It's like you know, I work on all these degrees and I'm going to be working at McDonald's just to try to, you know, get money for my family.
Speaker 4:You know, it would be just something really disappointing that route, but that's just the state of the church, unfortunately, that we're still in.
Speaker 4:However, I have always felt as if my main calling in my life has been to make society better in some way. I've not ever really known what that meant, but I always wanted it to be improved in some form or fashion for the glory of God in particular, and so I have decided that I'm going to really start considering going down the political perspective and trying to really have a clear influence upon society and trying to push forward propositions and laws and governances that could benefit society, particularly in my home state of Texas, and so, long-term goals, sky's really the limit. But ideally I'd like to potentially run for the governor of Texas and work my way up through the legislature until maybe that point. So we'll see what the Lord has. No matter what I do, ultimately I want it to be for his glory and for the betterment of society. So, yeah, what I do, ultimately I want it to be for his glory and for the betterment of society um, so yeah, that's kind of the long-term goal that I have at the moment.
Speaker 2:So okay, now, do you have concerns that if you get into the oh my gosh, the locals chat comes through and the locals chat comes through. Do you have concerns that what we do on here could affect you in the long run?
Speaker 4:So to a certain degree, but also not to a certain degree. So what I mean by that is there are always going to be individuals who will take what you say, or they'll observe a conversation that you said and they'll use it against you. That's just, unfortunately, the nature of politics. Politics is nothing more than civilized warfare. That's all that it really is.
Speaker 4:And so yeah well, it's true, it's just that's what it is. It's the chess game, if you will, and so you, you have to recognize that. That's just the world that you're in. So, on the one hand, you have to be cautious with certain topics where it's just like, yeah, you know, maybe they should be had, but maybe I don't need to be the one having the conversation. You know what I'm saying. But on the other end of the spectrum, there are lots of tough conversations though that I think need to be had, and they will, of course, ruffle some feathers. You can't be a person that is a people pleaser and try to please everybody. So certain conversations absolutely need to be had, and so some of the conversations that we do have on here about culture may seem taboo right now in politics, but I do think by the time I would ever run, which is maybe like in 20 years, it's not going to be as big of an issue.
Speaker 2:Certain stuff, years, um, it's not going to be as big of an issue. Certain stuff, okay. So, um, the reason I'm I'm getting at that is because, like, do you think you're going to censor the way you would normally speak? Like, like because, man, I hate you getting the policy like, I want, nick. I don't want running for office, nick. Like that's like having a Robin Quivers on the show, it's like. I don't know if you get the reference, but it's Howard Stern's woman on the show, you know.
Speaker 4:Well, you know. Well, you asked me this the other day in a private conversation and I talked with Murray Rundus about this basic concept on his show today. And some people apparently again because I'm not on X that much, but apparently one of the scuttlebutts about me over the last week or two has been Nick is just like he's no longer a trad, he's sold out, he's completely changed, et cetera, et cetera. And some people have kind of seen my demeanor as less fiery maybe than it was a month or two ago. People have kind of seen my demeanor as less fiery maybe than it was a month or two ago. But I can genuinely, honest to goodness, say that has nothing to do with any type of political ambition.
Speaker 2:I noticed a gentler Nick on the Voice of Reason episode. That's why I asked I noticed a gentler kinder Nick where, like I mean, we're talking about like dude, I think now this. That's why I'm asking like a month or two ago that would have been. You would have been laughing and on fire and everything I was saying you're like no, I think he actually handled that really well and I see in the comments. So in the comments, if you read them, everybody's like who the hell is this guy? What's going on with nick?
Speaker 4:yeah, yeah, that's what I tell people like. It's genuinely honest to goodness, nothing more than I think the fruits of like prayer yeah, not, not that, um, but like the fruits of honest, like prayer and self-reflection and recognizing my own faults. Because I'll be honest with you, anthony, one of the things I don't like about me has been sometimes the way I harshly criticize other individuals and in hindsight I look at it and I'm like I could have given a fair criticism of it without having to go off the wall. And there's a difference between a right criticism and then selling your soul for views and breaking the eighth commandment. And so the other day, when you and I were talking, I wasn't trying to be like voice.
Speaker 1:Reason is amazing and based.
Speaker 4:It was, yeah, he, he gave a. He gave a. I would just say an academically weak response to evangelicalism. But at the same time, I understood that you were hungry.
Speaker 2:You hadn't eaten all day and so I was just gonna let you do your thing let me do my thing so we were playing good cop, bad cop, which I think is actually good, because the people that thought I was wrong had you and the people that thought I was right had me. Like people don't look, even there's. Sometimes Rob will say something like. There was two things that happened on the Pantile show that I played good cop. One was Rob saying women shouldn't have a spiritual director.
Speaker 1:Okay, but I also think, like very few people should have spiritual directors, just have a confessor.
Speaker 2:Well, listen, I'm not even saying I disagree with you. I was thinking about the. I was really just thinking about the audience at that point and I was like somebody, better temper that one, because I know that will let people fly off the handle. And the other one was should you choose a? Like a spouse that has been vaccinated and like I, I, I, I wasn't being dishonest in either of my answers, but when you and Pantale said, well, like if you guys would have went the yes route, I would have took the other side, I kind of see both sides of that argument. I.
Speaker 1:I think like generally no, but there's a lot of things like that could make that a yes though too. You know what I?
Speaker 2:mean Like, yeah, I was just trying to. I didn't want all three of us to agree on that. I thought it was controversial enough that somebody needed to give the contrary opinion. In that situation, I could land on either side of that argument.
Speaker 1:Like don't go looking for a woman who's vaxxed.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But if you find a woman that you think is going to get you to heaven, then it doesn't matter much.
Speaker 4:Yeah, tell me, because I'm actually a little bit uneducated in this debate. I've seen a lot actually on Catholic dating sites because I'm trying to find a wife. Still I have seen a lot of people who will say things like I don't want a new woman who's vaxxed, and I totally get that. But I've never really dug down into the like concrete argument for is it like based on?
Speaker 1:that's what I thought it was a medical issue also just kind of, you know, if she compromised on that, it could have been maybe because she wasn't educated on it, or maybe she just literally compromised it on on that, and then that would be a separate issue. Gotcha, that's what I also was thinking. Well, I'll tell you right now my family or maybe she just literally- compromised on that, and then that would be a separate issue.
Speaker 4:Gotcha, that's what I also was thinking.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll tell you right now my family followed my lead on that. They just followed my lead. They did what I said. If I was like, no, we're getting vaccinated, they'd have all gotten vaccinated, including my daughters. But they just followed my lead and I was like I'd rather die than get that thing, but that was just the position I took. So, but my daughters couldn't be held to account for that decision. That was them that's true you know. So it's to me. It's not even about um the caving in women. I don't think.
Speaker 1:I think women are are supposed to follow either their father or their husband on decisions like that, unless they have a genuine moral and, like Anthony said here, his wife was in Austria, Like there's places that were it wasn't much of an option at all. I mean so yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's what it's looking and that had to be a difficult decision in a lot of uh, I stopped. I drew a line in the sand.
Speaker 1:Did you guys watch the uh tucker's interview yesterday? With the chinese guy oh my gosh. First off, I don't know if he's chinese, I think he's japanese.
Speaker 2:But hey look, they all look the same. Oh wait, it's a member show.
Speaker 1:We can see what we want um, but yeah, with, with, with the, the, the doctor who was offered um fauci's position before you, before fauci was okay, but yeah, I didn't see the whole thing.
Speaker 2:I saw clips. He was talking about cancer and stuff like that and yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:It was a very interesting show. He he doesn't even think the problem with the vax is like he doesn't think it in itself is like necessarily inherently dangerous. He said there could be we don't know what these spike proteins do and you know whatever he just said? Mostly it was like it doesn't get the virus out of your system. Yeah, you know. So there really is such a thing as long covid and that and the virus is in, still in your system, still doing things. In that that, that virus still being in there, is what is causing the rise in cancers, and the vax didn't do anything to help that whatsoever yeah, yeah, I just think to rush out something like that the way they did it's just like that was crazy.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I just I. I just saw it as a type of the mark. It's just how I saw it. I wasn't thinking about science, I wasn't thinking about anything. I was just looking at the way they rushed it out and the way they were telling us all we had to get it. I was like I'm not trusting. I'm not trusting Because I know a lot of people that went down the rabbit hole and they were saying some wild things like oh, in three years, half the planet's gonna be gone. And I'm like I don't know about any of that. I'm not a scientist, I don't know, I just see the way they're rolling it out. And that was like I don't trust these people at all.
Speaker 4:I got those uh, the debates that when I was at the time when all of that was going on, I was a checker at our local grocery store. I did that for five years and boy, I had people break out in the fistfights, screaming matches in the lanes, All kinds of. I'll tell you this was so funny Up until the whole pandemic. Everyone who works in service knows this You're treated like garbage, right, that's just part of the trade, if you will. And so the week the pandemic hit, you know, everything shuts down. But we're considered essential because we're a grocery store. So people are coming into the store and they're like but we're, you know, wearing masks, wearing gloves, behind a, like you know, plastic wall and people are saying thank you for your service, Thank you for your services.
Speaker 4:World War II vets returned home from you know, Iwo Jima or something like that. They're just like I'd shake your hand if I could, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And then after all of that kind of wore off and people realize this isn't like a two week thing, then the fights would break out. So you'd be just like checking your way, doing your thing, and then, like five hours away, you just hear people screaming. And you hear one person screaming you're trying to kill the whole planet.
Speaker 4:And then you hear the other person respond and screaming you've taken the mark of the beast, they've been planted and you're sitting there just like. Please, guys, I'm just trying to get to lunch, I just want to I want to get my shit now.
Speaker 2:You had just converted yeah you just came into the church. Um, did you have worries about it right away?
Speaker 1:oh, he's frozen nick we got work on your internet connection I swear I I live in the most out of the way spot, and it's better than both of yours yeah, um nick wait I didn't, we didn't hear you there, um, did you so?
Speaker 2:like you had just come into the church? Were you even paying attention? Did you? Were you worried about it? What was your, what was your situation at that time?
Speaker 4:I actually had it a little bit easier than most, because, essentially, how it was is like we came in during that period, but most of it in Texas, when everything was shut down, was when we were still like catechumens, and so we kind of got it easy in the sense that we didn't like we neededraments spiritually of course, but it wasn't the living, regular life of a catholic, and so, uh, yeah, it was. It was kind of easy in that respect. The only real issue, though, was just the, the fights that would break out all over the place, just like the random things, because, again, like literally, I would have like where I live. It's weird, it's like half hippies, cowboys, and so you'd have like one hippie come in who's just like man, and he tried to get you to agree with him. Man, you know, those people without masks are trying to kill the planet already with their plastic wastes, and they're trying to kill all of us now. And then the guy right after him, when you summon him to come in to check his stuff, he's just like man.
Speaker 4:those libtards, man, they're just trying to kill us all with the marketplace they're going to play in. And I'm like guys, guys, I'm trying to get to lunch, I'm trying to get off work. Can you please stop giving me your opinion? But you know where I live? It's all older people, and older people love to talk and I'm like the only one to talk to, so I'm gonna try switching my I'm gonna try switching my wi-fi see if that helps a little bit. But you guys can keep going okay so all right.
Speaker 2:So now I have a few things we could talk about tonight. Um, I got the rogan segment on the shroud.
Speaker 1:Um, then I have that clip I posted on twitter today about the particle physicist on the shroud, so we can do some shroud talk, shroud talk is always fun um which I I did have someone just send me an article that came out yesterday that might be interesting, about a racketeering scheme in chicago involving false sex abuse claims oh, oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:All right, let's keep that one, keep that one in the bank, let's. We'll think about that, but there was. But there was, tim Gordon had Fuentes on the other day. We're not going to play anything with him and Fuentes, but Tim, let a little bit of gossip slip about the breakup of TNT. I thought it was really interesting. I didn't.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, hold on, I didn't know. You said that.
Speaker 2:Let's play that clip. It's actually really interesting. I think it kind of it'll get into a conversation about me and you, rob, you'll see.
Speaker 1:Oh boy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was that segment where they were talking about boomers.
Speaker 1:Okay, hold on, I got it.
Speaker 4:I didn't see this come up at all.
Speaker 2:It was on his rumble channel oh, and a rumble, because he didn't want it, he didn't want to put it on on youtube because, anything with nick on youtube is gonna get, yeah, yeah it was.
Speaker 5:It was about a month and a half, two months ago you were going off about boomers. This was something went back when, when a lot of people don't know that I've never said this story publicly, but it's tough to run a two man podcast that Taylor and I had, whatever that was seven years ago, and it's tough for anyone because no one's going to agree about a hundred percent of issues. And, um, the first sort of trouble saw, cause I was waking up at five, 45 in the morning, you know, and we're seeing each other's mugs three times a week, and you know it was very early for me, cause that's when I still lived in Southern California and man I it got really awkward the first time it ever got really awkward. We'd just argue over an issue and, even though we agree about most stuff was was boomers. Like you know, you can't, you can't just shit on boomers. I'm like, well, that's who I am, though they're so mean.
Speaker 2:So so that was basically the clip, so I know this story a little bit. Um, so Taylor has a lot of older people that watch his show. So Tim like had had ripped on boomers one episode and Taylor was like, hey, man, don't you know, just just back off the boomer talk. But then, like they, so they, they. He said that to him during the recording. It wasn't a live show.
Speaker 2:And then the show aired and somebody like the comments went nuts it's all like rob, think about every time we criticize boomers how crazy they go. Like whenever you mention boomers, the freaking comments are like why do you blame all boomers? I'm not because everybody thinks like you can't speak in generalities, you know. So a bunch of boomers like hammered down on, like why are you guys talking about boomers like this? And and uh, taylor like texted tim and he was like hey, man, I told you not to talk about boomers. It was like yeah, but that was from this show like you just told me that, you know. So there was a little bit of tension there. You know, it was just like a misunderstanding, but I thought the point he made about. Anytime you do a show with two guys, there's tension there and it is hard to do a show with two guys right like rob and I have had to work through a lot of things and figure things out over the past couple of years.
Speaker 1:There was a few tense moments and I think it's hard when we're so remote, like we can't just sit over a beer and have a beer together, right no?
Speaker 2:So it what? What has happened, we've realized, is like conversations have to take place off air, like that's literally what it is. So like I know Rob gets annoyed all the time because I call him, but like you have to call each other and talk and like let each other flesh ideas out and run things by each other. Um, one of the cool things is because rob and I started it from scratch. Like watching the growth of everything has been exciting, especially over the last three months.
Speaker 2:We've doubled this thing in three months and it's, and it's like it's really exciting to have somebody to share that with. Like I would actually kind of it would kind of suck if it was just me by myself watching my channel grow and it's like who the hell do you talk to about that?
Speaker 1:like yeah, there's been a couple of times, because our wives don't want to hear about it.
Speaker 2:She doesn't care at all about this oh you doubled. Good job hun, it's like um like for me and rob, it's like kind of cool, like like we've we've had. We had a conversation like a week or two ago. We were just like can you freaking believe what we built? Like it's like how people are receiving the thing that we're doing, and stuff it was. It was just, it was just cool to like reflect on where we started and where we've come. Um, I thought we were the same age, molly, I didn't know.
Speaker 1:You were a year older then she definitely is a boomer yeah, I mean, she's definitely a boomer.
Speaker 2:She's actually gen x if she's born 81. Yeah, 81 is the end of gen x and 82 is the beginning of millennial. So yeah, that's that. But yeah, I thought it was interesting that he was just saying that like he's like, you know, anytime you have two people. We've seen so many Like senior. You've seen so many Like oh, 81 is the first year for millennials. But you've seen so many shows when it's more than one person working together, where it kind of blows up.
Speaker 1:So I mean Look at Meaning of Catholic.
Speaker 2:To be honest, yeah, I watched that. So I mean you have to look at meaning of Catholic, to be honest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I watched that. Like every show that was put on that channel I loved and man, things went weird. What?
Speaker 2:happened there? What happened there, do you think? Because Tim rarely posts now, Like it's almost like he only does stuff for his locals community or his Patreon community now, and on occasion he'll put stuff out, but it's not. Meaning of Catholic was one of the biggest up-and-coming Catholic channels. At one point Do you remember how excited we were to put our show, our trivia show, on Meaning of Catholic. It was like they had 16,000 subscribers. We were like we're going to show to like, show our show to a wider audience. Like what do you think really happened? And Nick, you were probably closer to that whole thing than any of us.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean I think it's two things. So one of it. One of it was just, like some creators, just life gets busy, and so they just weren't regularly posting. That's somewhat understandable. It is what it is, but the real stuff was tim. Tim has this great vision that I can appreciate, which is he wants to see catholics from differing perspectives come together and have actual intellectual debates about things. That's good. The problem with it, though, is one people you people struggle with intellectual pride. But then two I don't think it's healthy to have under the same roof such varying perspectives if you're not going to compensate them in some form. So, when you look at CNN or Fox News, they'll always have the token Democrat, like Jennings Scott.
Speaker 2:Jennings on CNN.
Speaker 4:Exactly, but he's making bank, so it's like he has a reason to be there. But if you aren't making any money and you're essentially just summoned to come um, it doesn't really help. And so I think what ended up happening is, you see, creators, you know, like kennedy and jeremiah, you know they're just from very opposite perspectives, very um individuals who can you know be very um chol?
Speaker 4:from very opposite perspectives very individuals who can, you know, be very choleric in the way that they present things and those just personalities clash with each other. And then Tim, who's in the middle. You know he's a good guy, but I don't know if he has the type of, like you know, gusto, if you will, to like to settle a dispute, to like actually get in there and go listen, I'm going to sit you two down and we're going to have a conversation.
Speaker 2:Like I've always been good at that. Like when I was in middle school I was a peer mediator Everyone, I was a peer mediator, right. So my principal came to me and she asked me to be a peer mediator. Two people in the school were going to have a fight, or if there was like talk of, like hey, I'm going to meet you after school, I would sit down with them and talk to them and get them to hash it out and and settle their differences.
Speaker 2:Um, like, I'm, I'm, I, I, I think, I, I, I'm pretty good at that, but I, I see what you're saying, where tim tim's uh temperament is just more like I don't know, I just like everybody. Man, he's kind of like Keith Nestor. Yeah, exactly Right, like Keith Nestor. The other night was just like I don't get it, man, why can't we all just be friends? Like why can't we all just get along Like it's like. No, there's actually real disagreements here. There's real like fundamental issues that are at heart here. And it really did start with, I think, kennedy and jeremiah clashed, yeah, and then, and then jeremiah turned on us, and then I don't know man, it was just pretty crazy, because think about it like think how different there it's.
Speaker 4:Like kennedy, I mean I'm gonna be hanging out with kennedy in two days. If any of you guys are over by, like the san antonio region, come check us out at Sanctus Ranch. We're going to be doing a men's conference. Oh, it's in Texas, that conference? Yeah, it's in Texas.
Speaker 2:I thought you were going to go to Canada, oh heck.
Speaker 4:No, oh, all right, until it's ours. But essentially, kennedy is the guy who wrote the SSPX defense. He's the big SSspx guy in youtube and then, by contrast, jeremiah is a main like speaker or creator of trad recovery.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, and it's so. It's like, how do you get both of those personalities to like shake hands? Because it's like one of the things tim wanted to do was like, can you, can you like try to recover guys? Can you just admit that the sspx are catholic, just that you don't have to agree with them on anything. But can you just admit they're catholic and then vice versa, like sspx crowd, can you at least admit that? You know, not everybody who goes to the new mass is like a horrible person or something. Yeah, and it was like that bridge was just too much, I think, for both of them.
Speaker 2:Well, I think we're okay. So first off, grover's saying Anthony walked the talk. Mediate the dispute between me and Bannister.
Speaker 1:Also the locals chat wants you to tell all the new people how you started the fight so that you could mediate them they don't want you to leave that part out here.
Speaker 2:I have done that a few times. I do. I like, I like to, I like revel in uncomfortableness. You know, like I, kind of like I I am, I'm at my um, my best when everything is really uncomfortable for everybody. I just sit back and I'm like what's going on? I like poking at it. If I see something is making someone uncomfortable, I'll poke at it and I'll just keep digging at it and then later on just go all right, come on, let's talk this out.
Speaker 4:You did that when they were having that. So again, for people behind the, the, the no, if you will, the like Jeremiah and Kennedy, they would go at it in our group chat. I remember one of the wisest lessons I've ever learned in life was from Anthony, because I forget exactly what they were fighting about. But Anthony finally just came out because all the, you know, all these ladies were coming out with that, you know, got to be charitable, got to be kind, and Anthony comes out with a voice memo and he's just like look, sometimes guys just need to like punch each other and yell at each other and once they're done, they shake hands and that's it, as opposed to like this, like passive-aggressive behavior where you're not actually talking. It's so true.
Speaker 2:I hate passive-aggressive. I would I much passive aggressive. I would I much prefer aggressive aggressive. I like, if somebody's upset with me, just tell me, dude, we'll work it out. I'm not going to like lash out at you If you tell me I did something wrong. I'm also very open to fraternal correction. Like I know I'm bombastic, I know I say things that are crazy, I know I go too far. So if anybody ever comes to me and says they're upset with me, I do think about my behavior. Like I'm like OK, I get how you could be offended by that. Like I'm very quick to see where I've gone wrong, because I'm usually the one that's wrong. But but to to I hate when people are mad at me but they don't say it. It's like just just tell me you're upset. Like we'll figure it out. Like let's, let's talk it out. So that's happened a couple of times with me and Rob, because the temperament difference, like Rob's more like doesn't like confrontation and it's like I'll let it build until I say the meanest shit imaginable.
Speaker 2:He'll let it bubble up and he'll, then he'll like he'll do something to let me know he's mad, but not say he's mad. And then I know he's mad but he hasn't said it and I'm just like this ain't happening. I gotta call him and then we gotta talk it out and it's like I think that's why me and rob work like because if I, if I, was doing um handsome aggressive stuff back would that would get bad.
Speaker 1:This is going to sound incredibly homosexual, but that temperament stuff has really actually helped out our partner.
Speaker 2:Oh, a hundred percent. Oh yeah, marriage.
Speaker 1:It has helped my marriage. It's helped me raise my kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to understand that, like some things are, people are born with a temperament like, and people are different and they see things differently and they react differently to things. So, uh, the long island moxie versus midwest chill. This is a good time I know it's the.
Speaker 2:It's the reason our show works. Yeah, it's the reason our show works. It's like which is what? What brings you back to the point I was saying earlier where, when you were talking about those two sensitive topics, I like, yeah, he can't have guys agreeing with everything. It's like an echo chamber, right, like. So part of the reason a show like this will work is because Rob doesn't agree with every one of my tastes. He laughs at me when I say we're going to war with russia, and nick comes in and he has his perspective on, even on church issues, right, on ecclesiastical issues, and nick's like no, you're like it's gay to go to the nova sordo or something like like throwing that out. But then I, I'm like rob does go to the nova sordo. You don't think rob's less catholic than you. It's like you can have your perspective, more actually, but yeah, well, but either way, like you can.
Speaker 2:There was a while where it was and it's like nick had his perspective, rob had his and you still can be friends if you disagree. It's kind of it's I hate. I hate when there's a. You see it in the comments, especially like my critique of alex the other day made people go like unsubscribed. It's like why, like it cares?
Speaker 1:if you disagree with me. I literally one guy I don't know if you saw like my comments, but one guy was like I was considering catholicism but now I have to reconsider. I'm like because anthony was hanged one loudmouth italian on the internet.
Speaker 1:He's like he's like well, just show those bad fruits. I'm like, dude, you saw episode Like most of our fruits of our faith are off the air. Like with our families, our wives, our children. Like don't just watch one episode where Anthony was a little hangry and let that push you out of the church and he did calm down, but it was crazy how people reacted.
Speaker 2:Well, anytime we criticize people are so sensitive about their favorite social media stars. It's a weird thing man Like, and especially with like the, the mainstream Catholic guys, because they're very charitable in their approach and they don't typically come out firing their mouths off like we do. So if you criticize like a trent horn, if you criticize a father mike schmitz, if you criticize like any of like the mainstream guys, you'll always get somebody coming in being like this is so wrong, this is and it's like you should be able to say something and not mean it means you don't like that person. That kind of stuff is kind of weird to me yeah, it's weird, I, I think it's.
Speaker 4:I think it's because, like we've talked about a little bit, but like people who watch their favorite person oftentimes think that they have like a really a working relationship with them, even though parasocial thing, exactly, even though they've never met them. And it's weird, but because you guys have told, told me before, I've had this too where it's like you're at mass and then someone comes up to you and like you're happy, you're cool, like cool, you, you watch the show, but uh, sometimes they behave as if they know you and it's like I don't know who you are.
Speaker 2:It is a weird thing because they know you and you don't know them Right. But I mean weird thing because they know you and you don't know them right. But I mean I, I can, I'm very good meeting new people. Like I'm like I don't like I like it when it's not that I like it because of the attention. I like to meet new people and get to know people and especially because, like, I went to church for years and didn't know anybody and nobody's like that social at church when I would go to my typical novus ordo. So now if I go to Mass and somebody comes up and introduces themselves, I want to talk to you for a few minutes, hang out and talk with me. I want to get to know you. You're a fellow parishioner. Why wouldn't we be friends? To me it seems silly that we go to the same parish and we wouldn't be friends.
Speaker 1:I don't care if you know me from YouTube, it's like see, for me I'm very different, so if any of you ever see, me in public you definitely can't. You can come up and say, hi, I, I won't be upset or anything, but if I just am not acting enthused, that's he's not me, yeah that's just me, with people in general I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's funny though, rob. When we're together you are like like having me there with you, like when we went to north carolina.
Speaker 1:You weren't closed off at all, man, like you were dude you know how exhausted I was after that I'm sure I spent like a week staying away from people um, okay, so todd says how many people were mad.
Speaker 2:You said something about religious hippie in in the actual youtube show. A lot, um, in the comment section. If you go back and watch the comments, a lot of people were. But what? I'm glad that we had what's his name? On the other night, thursday, I'm glad we had Thursday. On the other night, josiah. He said something that I was so glad he said. He said I will not compromise on this, this thing that I'm, that I'm talking about, right, and that happened to me me and Rob a while ago too, where it was like you see women getting mad in the comments and I'm just like I look, I love the women that watch our show because they have a thick skin, but those women that get mad at every little thing, I don't want them watching our show because they're annoying.
Speaker 2:So, like the like those women who hang on our show and listen to these conversations and they aren't so uptight because they know when we're talking about women, we're talking in generalities, we're not talking specifically about certain people. It's really just like if, if you can withstand us goofing around because there's a natural enmity between men and women and it's actually okay if men goof on women and women goof on men like that. That's that's who I want watching our show. I don't want the uptight. I get offended by everything. Woman watching our show, so I don't. I'm not going to cater to that. I'm going to cater to an audience of men that are like us.
Speaker 1:we also, apparently, apparently, cater to a 15% Filipino audience, isn't that?
Speaker 2:crazy Dude. We should actually talk about the analytics on this channel.
Speaker 1:They've changed pretty drastically.
Speaker 2:Holy cow, have the analytics on this channel? Nick, you got to hear this Like first off 25% women.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's gone up.
Speaker 2:it was at one point like 15 and we were doing the women driver videos every episode so okay, so over 65 is about 14, but now these could just be clips, right like, especially like a sam shamoom clip that's a hundred thousand views, like now that you're changing your whole audience there. So um the so female went from 15 to like 25 percent. Um the the the biggest breakdown is 55.5 percent from the us, uh, 16 percent from the philippines and five percent from canada.
Speaker 2:Like that's crazy to me our canadian audience has actually grown since trump got elected, which is funny four percent from the uk, three percent from australia and then the rest are like less than a percent. We got some german, indian, south african, ireland, ireland's in the pits. How, how do we have no Irish audience? They speak English, I would think the UK and Ireland. Man, the faith is just dead there. It's dead.
Speaker 1:Todd says Anthony, do your Chinese-Filipino accent, hurry, we'll get rid of them in no time.
Speaker 2:It used to be about 40% of people were not subscribed to watch our content. Now that's up to 50%. That means um of people were not subscribed to watch our content. Now that's up to 50. So that means it's people just clicking on a video, watching one or two videos or and then bailing and then uh channels. Our audience watch has totally changed, so it's still uh anthony stein, but now sam shamoon, a lot of sam shamoon's audience. Sip was sips with sarah. I've seen that kid uh around. I I know who he is.
Speaker 2:We have a lot of ruslan people watching our show yeah, that was the janko clips we put up yeah, probably, um, and then a lot, of, a lot more of the mainstream guys like, uh, council of trent um, shameless potpourri, cameron, riker, which is all interesting. And then you have, like the Taylor, marshall and Kennedy Hall are all the way at the bottom of the list Now, where those guys used to be. Like we used to mainly speak to trads and I think we've broadened our audience a little more mainstream Catholics. But I don't think we've compromised on anything we say.
Speaker 4:No, if anything, I think we've actually maybe doubled down in some areas seeing you go after voice of reason.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you definitely haven't compromised there, bud yeah, so.
Speaker 2:So maybe it's that those guys audience are just checking our stuff out because we're commenting on those guys. That's probably where that that's all coming in. It could be there is.
Speaker 4:There is surprising that, like, like, even, even though it's somewhat circumstantial. The other day I was at the church and I'm waiting for confession and this guy walks up to me. He's this college student and apparently college students at our local university watch our show because he walks up to me and he's like are you Nick from Avoiding Babylon?
Speaker 2:No, I'm Nick from the traditional Thomas bro. I know what I did. I'm Nick from the traditional Thomas bro.
Speaker 4:I was like I was like from the traditional Thomas, but he was like, oh yeah, no, I watch your stuff all the time. I love you watching you guys. And he's like just this young guy who watches it from the college. And it's like he goes to like a new mass parish like and new mass parish like and, and tells me like, oh yeah, it's very reverent. So it's like, okay, he knows who we are, but yet he watches what we watch.
Speaker 2:So it's like let me tell you something. Father nicks went to florida to a conference and people came up to him and said hey, father nicks, oh you, you go on avoiding babylon. They didn't say you go on tay.
Speaker 1:Marshall at the at the Catholics for Catholics thing. I think so, Mar-a-Lago oh, I don't know if it was a.
Speaker 2:Mar-a-Lago. It might've been there, but he was down in Florida for something else. Like two weeks ago he texted both of us.
Speaker 1:He said hey man like.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought you were in that. I thought it was a group text. He said he goes dude, we wereix, I see you on avoiding Babylon, like. So people are starting to see our guests. Like. I bet Michael Hichborn gets recognized more from our show than his own or any of the other guys he goes on with.
Speaker 1:You know, he, he, he's probably out there covering like some big church scandal and they come up, come up to him, him. Oh, you're the crazy flood guy that's funny, that's funny I.
Speaker 2:I will say this about hitchport we got a side out of him that no other show has ever gotten out of him. He's always so dead serious and talking about very serious matters and we got a side out of him that I don't think he's ever shown on any other show yeah, he even wore a polo shirt the other day, not even a button up yeah he's, we're loosening him up a little bit baron trump loves this show.
Speaker 4:I hope, so, I hope grover.
Speaker 1:Imagine going to keith, nestor, and saying I know you from the ab locals.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, if any of you ever see keith nestor in public. Please say that. That's where you know him from.
Speaker 1:I'm going to be probably hanging out with Keith in about a month actually About three weeks Someone's coming into the church.
Speaker 4:I think I know who that person is. Yeah, we can't say the name yet, Not publicly. Can we say it after he comes in? I was like after he comes in.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I'm sure he said he was just waiting to tell a few more people.
Speaker 2:Now we don't have anything. We don't have anything like so off the rails that we can't do on YouTube right now. Like, do you want to just stay on YouTube and Locals, or do you want to just go?
Speaker 1:I think for these members only show.
Speaker 2:we should only go to Locals if we really If we're going to talk about the Amish or something, because I'd rather keep. We have 80 in Locals and then I think we have what 20 on. Yeah, we have 80 in locals and then I think we have what 20 on 70.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we have 22 on youtube and 75 in locals yeah so I really wish they would integrate locals better with stream yard.
Speaker 2:I just wish we could put their comments. I know it's like I, just I just want to be able to highlight the comments. I hate that the comment integration is so bad, um, because I have to uh like look down for the local stuff. It's kind of annoying. Um, uh, the romance is. Keith looks so lost during that locals episode. The last time he came on, yeah, I think he was just like I don't get it. I don't understand why can't we all just get along? It's like dude. Yeah, it's a generational thing like keith I'm.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking I'm gonna have my mom watch some of keith's stuff because like he's much more her speed when it comes to just attitude and stuff like that, but he's also still like entirely orthodox right and like really catholic um. So yeah, like you said, it's a generational thing and not that he's a boomer like my mom, but he presents a boomer, a boomer friendly message.
Speaker 2:Look, that's why. So that's why I brought up when I asked them. I'm like, did you, when you went on your pilgrimage, like what was the crowd age? Now he said 50, but I saw some of the pictures.
Speaker 1:They yeah, you asked that and I could tell he knew what you're trying to get in. He's like no, no, no, I'm not his audience his audience skews older.
Speaker 2:They were definitely older and the reason I pointed that out is because when we went to Italy, it was the same thing with Patrick Coffin, like his audience skews older. Same thing with Taylor Marshall his audience skews older. And we really do have a unique thing in that our audience tends to be from the 18 to 55 age, Like that's our. The biggest majority. Of our audience is like the target demo that you would want for advertising, you know yeah, it's like 50 is 25 to 45 basically yeah, so, um, it's.
Speaker 2:So when I'm watching our comments, it's all younger guys who are like we're sick of this stuff. We're sick of this stuff. And keith's like I don't get it, like I don't understand he's. And he's also a new convert, right, and new converts are leaving protestantism. And it's crazy in protestant land and you think you're coming into the catholic church and everything's going to be peachy keen and everybody's going to get along. And it's like there's a lot of fracturing within the church because of some of the craziness that because because of the protestantism that has crept into the catholic church over the past 60 years yeah, exactly, murray, and I talked about this a little bit today.
Speaker 4:He was. We were talking about the phenomenon of uh on x, how there's like a zillion and one thomas all of a sudden, and it's like we know that it's not because everyone's just fallen in love with the sumo of saint thomas. It's become like this moniker for, like I'm the theological based, or, as I put it, I'm the theological hall monitor of X. Essentially, anything that I don't like I'll call a foul, and it's just an abuse of what authentic Thomism is.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, Well, look, we have the cradle versus Catholic convert conversation, right, and like we kind of make fun of it and we joke around about it. But there's something to the Protestant Congress that come in have studied the fathers and they've studied the Bible and they come in for theological reasons but there's something about them not knowing the Catholic culture. Yeah, so when they come in they're kind of okay with the liturgical stuff because from where they came from, it's like it was bananas where they came from. So for them to come into a nova sordo mass, that's like a high liturgy to them. You know, and that's part of the issue.
Speaker 2:The cultural catholicism angle is very influenced by converts and I, I like I'm not, I'm not trying to drum up an adversarial relationship between converts and cradles, it's just that's something that that's been an effect of the past. Look at who runs all the apologetic stuff. It's all, it's the scott hong converts, it's the like, all all these converts come in and they're like there's no resources for catholics to learn the faith. I'm going to present the resource for them to understand the faith, right, it's, it's what happens. So those guys come in and they just want to be faithful to the new magisterium that they just discovered and they're seeing this new magisterium came up with a new mass, so they're like let's just go with this new mass. Anthony, you talk smack about commerce on Twitter all the time. Mess anthony, you talk smack about commerce on twitter all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but like sarcastically, like yeah like jason that actually means me and jason like make jokes about it, but like I don't. I don't actually like care, it's like, but there's, there is something to it, you know.
Speaker 4:It's like a thousand percent. A thousand percent because, it's like um, I have a friend who recently came in. He came in like a few days before christmas and like I'm six years into the faith and it's like just now am I starting to say like, yeah, I'm kind of getting my footing like in the more cultural sense of it. I'm kind of marinating in the Catholic scene. But he comes in and sometimes, like in front of people who go to the new mass, he'll just throw out these fiery yeah opinions.
Speaker 2:I don't you gotta get your internet fixed. You're chopping up. We could barely hear you I'm.
Speaker 4:I'm just in the middle of this storm right now where I'm at. I was just saying I have this friend though yeah, like sometimes he just goes all like no hold bar and he can be a bit brutal so is he a convert, he's cradle.
Speaker 4:He's a convert. He converted just a like a few months ago and sometimes he'll just throw out these fiery opinions in front of people who go to the new mass. It's like I agree with the substance of it, but it's just like place and time man. You know you gotta get down over some like beer and have a good chat. You know it's not always just like boom.
Speaker 2:No holds bar well, part of it is also, um, like not everybody's been exposed to the things you've been exposed to, and like like part of what we're doing is trying to bring people more to our side and not being harsh with the ones who are just beginning to understand that, like you can't just start telling people, if you go to the novus ordo this that you just first off, that is what people have available to them in 90% of the circumstances, right? So, like I feel I feel guilty because I have access to some phenomenal liturgies where I am. So for me to start telling people you need to go to the Latin Mass and that thing's two hours away from them and they got six kids, and it's like like I don't know't know that's it's not their fault that the bishops brought in this crappy liturgy. It's just what, what that's how they have to live out their catholic faith.
Speaker 2:It's just, I think that anybody that brings their children to the nova zordo, like you, have to be super careful at what they are picking up there, man like you're. You're bringing them to a liturgy that has, like it shows, disrespect. It doesn't. It doesn't, um, it doesn't exemplify in its actions what it claims to believe. So I don't know how you're, how you're telling your children this is the king of kings, like in the eucharist, and then people are just walking up and taking it like a cracker, like it's just, it's gonna be a difficult thing for you exactly, exactly all right, let's, let's jump to the shroud clip rob, not the rogan one, because I uh the particle physicist one.
Speaker 2:It's super interesting. I posted this on on twitter today. But a particle physicist looks at the Shroud of Turin and she gets into a little bit of woo-woo wackiness.
Speaker 1:Bro, you can't have a video from a particle physicist from the 70s. Particle physics are a little different from 50 years ago.
Speaker 2:No, but just listen to what she says. Stop it. Just listen. Why do you?
Speaker 1:always find documents that are from when you were a little kid Every time.
Speaker 2:I give you a video, you knock it at least to a great discussion. Just trust me, bro. Have a little faith in your friend.
Speaker 3:While dealing with the position of the body within the cloth, she discovered one of those mysterious properties that cannot be yet somehow is An interface that divides the image, transport into two hermetically separate yet simultaneous actions and forces, causing the shroud to be taut and parallel on both sides, creating a true event horizon.
Speaker 5:In general relativity, we have found that there are certain so forget the a true event horizon.
Speaker 2:forget that. Just think about what she's what. What is going on with the image of the shroud there? The shroud is supposedly wrapped around christ's body, right, um? And if the image actually comes from his body, it should be distorted from the wrapping of the cloth around his body. But the image is perfect, which means the cloth was pulled really tight on the top and bottom and his body isn't resting against the rock. Okay, which means like in that tomb there could be no gravity. Okay, which means like in that tomb there could be no gravity.
Speaker 1:His body is floating and the shroud just gets pulled really tight.
Speaker 2:His body bursts light out from all angles.
Speaker 1:Dr Lavoie explained that when he was on our show.
Speaker 2:Did he? I must've.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that, that that that Christ's body could not have been laying against the rock and that actually the positions of the feet on the image of the shroud suggest that Christ was actually floating vertically in the air, like in a standing position, but off the ground.
Speaker 2:Wow, you think about what the actual resurrection in that tomb might have looked like.
Speaker 1:You know I really hope, mel, you think about like, what the actual resurrection in that tomb might have looked like it. You know, I really hope uh, mel like gets good, like really good shroud experts to help him kind of come up with the resurrection scene because they are filming it in August.
Speaker 2:They're beginning the filming. Now, the thing that he's doing with that movie, from what I've heard from different people, I think, um, I think you know what. You know who got in trouble for it? Um, who's? Uh, chris stefanik. Chris stefanik got in trouble because he talked to mel gibson privately and then went on his show and started blabbing his mouth about what Mel told him, not realizing he wasn't supposed to say it.
Speaker 2:But what Mel's doing is a typological, like crazy thing with this movie where it's going to have flashback scenes to Adam in the garden and it's not just going to be like the resurrection happens and it's going to have flashback scenes to Adam in the garden and it's not just going to be like the resurrection happens and it's going to be the book of Acts at all. It's going to be about Christ's descent into hell and there's going to be him like meeting the patriarchs. You know things like that. It's going to be a wild movie. I can't wait to see it. I bet Protestants are going to hate it. It's not going to be a wild movie. I can't wait to see it, I bet. I bet protestants are going to hate it. It's not going to be like the original passion, where it's universally acclaimed?
Speaker 1:I don't think you know, what's weird is I kind of always thought that, about the passion too, that like that, all the christians loved it. But then, like in the last five or six years, well, really well, since meeting hope like her family, never seen the Passion. She had never seen it. I'm like what do you mean? You've never seen the Passion.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I remember when it like what year did it come out? Do you guys remember what year it came out 2000,?
Speaker 2:maybe Early 2000s. Yeah maybe 01.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I just remember obviously like the initial height, but I remember it being like really big in our evangelical church, like when were you born? I was born in 98, but I just remember no way you were.
Speaker 4:You would remember when it came out 2004 okay, I might remember it because I because here's the one thing I do remember specifically my mom. One time she taught a class over the crucifixion and she showed part of this and I was in like second or third grade. I remember being traumatized. I was just like what the heck is this thing?
Speaker 2:but uh yeah, okay, so the passion comes out in 04. Um, it was like mel gibson was on the 700 club, like he was on. He was on every protestant platform and catholic platform, right. So when it first comes out, the protestants really did like it and but the long, enduring love for it is mainly catholic well, I think that might be because, like a few years after that, mel said all those uh no, dude, I remember, um, what's his name?
Speaker 2:who did the 700 club? What was his name? Pat robertson. Yeah, yeah, pat robertson. Even after mel did that, pat robertson was on the 700 club going oh, mel, mel gibson's in all that trouble right now, but let's just, let's just play pray for our brother in christ, like they never acknowledged he was catholic. They just like they. They never acknowledged he was Catholic. They never really acknowledged that he was Catholic. He's having a rough time. Everybody pray for Brother Mill and all that stuff. The long, enduring love for that movie is definitely Catholic. I do see a lot of Protestants found out that a lot of that movie is based on Anne Catherine Emmerich's visions, so they don't like it anymore. But for Catholics that movie is liturgical.
Speaker 1:It's a devotional, for sure, right.
Speaker 2:It's like a liturgical act that I think most Catholics that take their faith seriously do what I do and watch it on Good. Friday. I mean I watch it every single Good Friday. It's like a preparation we do. We'll go see a Passion play if a good parish is putting on a Passion play, those Passion plays, man don't knock those. They're really good sometimes, especially if there's some good music with them and the drums and stuff.
Speaker 1:I've never actually seen them.
Speaker 2:There's a parish near me that does one that is dude you weep, and then they sing that song about what is it? Where have you taken, is it?
Speaker 4:Oh, I know what you're talking about. Is it? Where Were you when you Crucified my Lord, that one?
Speaker 2:For sure. No, were you there when they Crucified my Lord? Crucified my Lord, that one for sure? No, were you there when they crucified my Lord? Were you there? That song, but the drums of when at this parish, that does it. It's like they go through the stations of the cross, essentially, and as he comes to each station they'll have like a really good drum part where you're just like and it's like a live action stations of the cross that you could really have a, a, a a powerfully like, if you can weep at the passion, that's a gift, that's a grace from God. It's not. It's not something you should. Uh, anthony, I like drums, yeah.
Speaker 1:If that song is sung right, it's a beautiful song.
Speaker 4:It's got nothing on the stabat mater on the what the stabat mater? I don't know what that sounds like. The latin hymn that's sung for stations of the cross. Yeah, I've never.
Speaker 2:I've never heard that oh I guarantee I'm sorry, I probably heard it, but I don't know, I don't know it. That context, yeah, he guys is so mean to me. Why are you guys so uncharitable to me? This is so uncharitable. This is so not nice. Um, yeah, like, okay.
Speaker 2:So, um, like, as lent comes to to a close, like I will gather my whole family to watch the passion. It's like a very I don't know it's a very, it's a very important moment and this year I'm gonna make my in-laws watch the passion. It's like a very I don't know it's a very, it's a very important moment and this year I'm going to make my in-laws watch it with me because they're watching the chosen right now and they, I know. So the chosen, I think this year, like the season five coming up, I think they're getting into like the last supper and stuff. So I think they're coming up on the passion. Yeah, but you know they're not going to do what they did.
Speaker 2:Well, gibson did, right. So it's like like I'll still watch the 1970s Jesus of Nazareth and then, when the passion comes up, cause that one's like there's not even blood in it or anything, it's just like the. It's like, oh, it's terrible. So I'll jump, I'll watch jesus of nazareth up to that point and then jump to the passion and then I watch the resurrection scenes back on jesus of nazareth again, because it shows him appearing to the apostles and you know, in the upper room, and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So yeah are you guys doing?
Speaker 4:anything for holy weeks, like uh, anything outside from like passion and stuff I mean I do.
Speaker 2:I do the Triduum usually. I would love to find a pre-55 liturgy man. I don't know where to do that though.
Speaker 4:I do that every year. Me and my friends always drive five hours to the nearest institute, but this year I'm going to do the whole of Holy Week pre-55, from Palm Sunday all the way to Easter. What's different about it? Oh, there's a ton. There's a ton. I'll give you the short answer. The short answer is that the 1962 Holy Week is the testing ground for the Novus Ordo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but is there anything dramatic that you really prefer in the pre-55?
Speaker 4:There is One thing you'll prefer. Anthony is as an example, on Palm Sunday, the priest takes the crucifix from the carrying crucifix that the servers have. He bangs it on the doors on the outside as Christ is coming in. So that's pretty cool. On Good Friday, there is no reception of communion. You go up and kiss the cross. That's your communion, isn't that church-wide?
Speaker 2:though I thought there's no communion in the whole church on Good Friday.
Speaker 4:Oh, is that Monday, Thursday?
Speaker 2:No Monday. Thursday is the Last Supper, and then Good Friday. I don't think anywhere is allowed to receive communion. No, you do in the 62 and in the— If you don't celebrate Mass, you can receive communion from a previous day or something Exactly receive communion from a previous day or something, exactly Exactly Now.
Speaker 1:When I was growing up in the Novus Ordo, our priest did not give out communion on good Friday. I still I. So I, I grew up thinking that was normal and then going to the Novus Ordo, like up here now it's like why would? Why is there communion? What's going on here?
Speaker 4:I actually talked with Dr here. I actually talked with dr kwasniewski about this, which we should have him on our show, just because it would be interesting to have, like especially this style show with him being kind of like the brandy sipping tweed wearing trad. But we talked about this the other day, like I said, yeah, I do too. I said on facebook, uh, because I'm still a boomer at heart uh, that the future of the traditional movement is with the pre-55 missile as a whole, because the whole 62 missile, while it's not heretical or theologically, sspx oh, this is where I depart from the society as position.
Speaker 4:Uh, it's fundamentally the 62 missile fundamentally has a lot of issues with it and he told me. He said a lot of groups behind the scenes, right, traditional groups are having this debate and they're going to eventually just move completely to the pre 55 missile as a whole. They're already printing pre 55 altar missiles and breviaries behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:So it's just a matter of time until you finally see our whole movement go from the 62 back to the pre 55 so, um, okay, so father maudsley is coming on next saturday, um, yeah, not, not this saturday, next saturday, um, so he's got this thing where he's talking about jewish infiltration of the liturgy, going back to, like, the 1400s. It's pretty crazy, and he's talking about them, uh, genuflecting at a certain point.
Speaker 1:So during, yeah, during the prayer for the conversion of the Jews currently, and I think starting in 62, a genuflection was added, just like for every other group that we pray for for the conversion, we genuflect at one point, traditionally, during the prayer for the conversion of the Jews. We did not genuflect because of how the jews, we did not genuflect because of how the jews mocked christ by genuflecting to him as what they thought was a fake right so, so.
Speaker 1:So traditionally, catholics would not genuflect during that prayer because of their use of the genuflection as a mockery towards our lord so he posts something about that and novus ordo watch says oh, guys, oh and we forgot the ad read yeah, but it's a it's a members only show.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's a good show to do that anyway maybe we can. Maybe we can put a print one up for a clip or something, and it later um, so.
Speaker 2:So novus ordo watch jumps in and says this is blasphemy to say that the pope does not have the right to change the liturgy, which is ironic. But he, his position is there hasn't been a valid pope since pies as well. So mausoleum says, like pious the 12th is the one who changed this and kind of yeah, but listen, I'll say this, though I'm not sure if the genuflection is, is a giving in. So his position is you're participating in the mocking of the crucifixion of christ in a, in a, in the ways, in the way the jews did. Like that's his position on it.
Speaker 2:Right, but in the novus ordo, when you get all of the gentiles at the novus ordo to say crucify him, crucify him, like I think that's a sick, like a sick perversion, like I don't, I think that is getting the Gentiles to participate in the mocking of Christ. I don't know, I don't know the theological. It feels to me like, look, I don't like when they say we're all responsible for Christ's crucifixion. No, he paid the debt for all of us. All of our sin is paid on the cross. But there's a very specific reason.
Speaker 4:We say one particular group is responsible for the crucifixion yeah, it depends on, like, what order or what perspective you want to look at it, because it's like. Do you know who says that we're all responsible? It's the council of trent and yes, it's, it's the council of trent, can you?
Speaker 2:pull that up. I want to. I want to hear the wording of that. Yeah, it's like Council of Tranthromacheia.
Speaker 4:Can you pull that up?
Speaker 1:I want to hear the wording of that.
Speaker 2:I want to hear the wording of that.
Speaker 1:Okay, you guys keep talking, I'll pull it up.
Speaker 4:But then on the other end, you're right, because it's like you can at the same time deny the fact that scripture is very clear that it was the Jewish community that put Christ to death. I don't know if I would say it's like participating in because you have to intend to do that. But if I would say it's like participating in because, like you have to intend to do that, but I do see where you're coming from I would maybe disagree with maud's position, if I'm understanding it correctly, because it's like I don't know if you're participating in the in the mocking of christ by, uh, with the genuflection, I think.
Speaker 2:I think that might like that's too subtle of a thing and it's like, yeah, like I think that's too subtle of a thing and if we're doing that for the conversion of others and we genuflect, like I don't see that big of an issue with that. Um, I'm probably going to challenge him a little on that one because, like, essentially what I'm having, maude's leon is not to talk about the event that he says didn't happen. I'm not, that's not what I want to talk okay, so here we go.
Speaker 1:So this, this is from the catechism of the roman, catechism from the council. So it says sinners were the authors and ministers of all the sufferings that the divine redeemer endured. We must regard as guilty all those who continue to relapse into their sins. Since our sins, may the lord christ suffer the torment of the cross. Um those who plunge themselves into disorders and crimes. Crucify the son of God anew in their hearts. Yeah, so it says. It even goes as far to say our crime in this case is greater in us than in the Jews.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we know the savior and accept Right. Right, so it's almost like yeah, I understand that I still don't like the idea of us yelling, crucify him, cruc. Understand that I still don't like the idea of us yelling, crucify him, crucify him. I just I don't like it. I will never go to a Palm Sunday, Novus Ordo, ever again in my life.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I don't. I don't disagree with you there, cause and that was one of the issues with the 62 is that, like on, I think it's a Holy Saturday All of a sudden you're starting to respond to stuff on Palm Sunday in the 62. There's On Palm Sunday in the 62, there's all of a sudden a table for blessing of the palms. So there's a lot of issues with it liturgically. But yeah, I think it kind of goes back to one of those issues where it's just like, ultimately, you can rightly criticize and say, like, historically speaking and even typologically going back, like the Jewish community has a great involvement, but I don't. But you have to balance that with the reality of, like, everything the council of trump is emphasizing there, because it's like, yeah, you people out there who are using the confessional as a revolving door and who are habitual mortal sin, like you, are the sons of satan living. Yeah, as if, as if god gave you law to keep, but you just don't want to live it.
Speaker 2:So it's more of a mockery, because you claim to believe he is the king of kings and you continue. Especially mortal sin, right, exactly, I saw, I saw, I saw a zoomer yesterday posted lust is the final boss. Once you can, once you, once you beat lust, all doors are unlocked and it's like, dude, that's the entryway, that's the entryway. It literally is the entryway. Like you conquer lust first, then you have to struggle with the other seven deadly, that the other deadly sins, right, that like pride is a big one, man, I don't think you get it. Pride is the is pride is the ultimate door. Like pride is the is the big boss.
Speaker 1:Like it's yeah, that is the ultimate boss actually it was um one of my meditations from this week it. They gave a different one actually the main okay isn't the.
Speaker 2:It's not. I thought it like that was. Lucifer's pride is like the root of everything.
Speaker 4:It is the root of all sin. According to saint thomas, it's the. He calls it the mother of all sin. So it saint thomas. It's the. He calls it the mother of all sin. So it's like all sin, in some form or fashion you can trace back to like trace back to pride yeah yeah, because it's like you
Speaker 4:lost because you thought that, like this pleasure or whatever was better than fulfilling the end which you're actually made for. But I'm curious on what rob is going to bring up because, oh man, I've heard this other position.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I'll be able to find it. Greg Lee says.
Speaker 4:Wait, is it?
Speaker 1:Envy. Let me see here.
Speaker 2:I don't think Envy is. There's no way Envy is bigger than I have struggled with Envy in my life.
Speaker 4:I am very cautious not to be envious when you, when you say envy, though, do you mean like?
Speaker 1:it's not like um.
Speaker 4:I'm reading through it real quick it says saint th Thomas was wrong. When you say envy, Anthony, are you saying more like jealousy.
Speaker 2:No, jealousy is I want what you have. That's not necessarily a sin. Like jealousy is not necessarily wrong. God is a jealous God. He wants you for himself, right? Like it's not necessarily sinful to see something someone has and go, oh I wish I had that. It doesn't mean you're lusting after it, you're coveting it. It's when you covet what they have and when you wish they didn't have it, when you're upset that they have it, that's envy. But you could be envious of more than material possessions. You could be envious of spiritual gifts. You have to read the story of the prodigal son and try to meditate on being the older brother. Like really it's a powerful one.
Speaker 1:That is the sort of envy that this was talking about, by the way.
Speaker 4:I still haven't gotten to the part where it says it's like envy is like St Thomas'. Envy is you either A you relish in someone's downfall, or B you mourn at their success.
Speaker 2:Okay, so like even watching the Democrats like owning the libs can be a bit of relishing in their downfall.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's true, because it's like if what like like there's, you can rightly say I'm glad that evil lost, but if that is, you people are suffering and I'm like happy about it.
Speaker 2:That's where it becomes an issue yeah, like oh, look, yes, that's that's a perfect way to say it like you could be happy that evil is not doing good, but like to revel. Well, it's kind of weird, though, nick. Like let's say, somebody keys a tesla, yeah, and then you watch the rest of the video and the cops are arresting them five minutes later because they got caught, and it's like satisfying because they got their comeuppance. Like is that envy, you think?
Speaker 4:I don't think that's him because it's like you can rejoice in the restoring of justice, but typically, like when you're rejoicing at someone's downfall, it's because they have an objective evil that's happening to them. So it's like, oh, you didn't get this job at work and I just don't like you. Ha ha ha, you didn't get what you wanted, et cetera. That's a little bit different than saying like you broke a law and now justice is being restored. I delight that because it's like one of the controversial things that we will have in heaven if we make it by god's grace is that the righteous look down into hell and they rejoice at the people being punished, not because they're sadistic and envious, but it's because god's justice is brought upon wickedness some of the some of the most beautiful humbling moments I've had with God have been about envy.
Speaker 2:Because, whether somebody is making more money than me at work, because they're being boosted up, because he happens to be providing a more vital role than I am at this particular time, because there was a time when okay, I'll, I'll, I'll tell you guys some stuff. There was a time in 2019, my company had contracts Uh, I in, in in four boroughs. I was running two of them and I was making the most money for the company by a long shot Like I am talking by a long shot. So I was able to go to my, my uncle and say, listen to me, I'm literally doing the job of two people. Right now. I'm running the biggest crew. I'm making you tons of money. Like, I want to raise. I saw I got my raise, Then he doubled my Christmas bonus at christmas time and then the pandemic hit. Now, when the pandemic hits, we lose the contract in two boroughs. I have to wind up going back to being like I lost over 30 of my income from 2019 to 2020, dang Dang, and I never got it back. So we picked up contracts again, but it wasn't the same kind of work. I wasn't able to. So all the raises I got he took away after we lost all that work, cause he goes. His position was oh, when I needed you, you came to me and said I want more and his position was I don't need you anymore. So I'm knocking you back down a couple of notches and it was like an incredibly humbling thing. And other areas in the company picked up and some other guys I don't know if the other guys went to him for a raise, but they were definitely more important. They were working more than I was.
Speaker 2:I used to be able to go to my uncle I'm coming in saturday, like I'm coming in, I didn't have to ask, I'm coming in, and he couldn't say no to me because he needed me so much. Then, when that happened, he was asking other guys to come in on saturday and I'd be sitting home and I'd be like, bro, I'm not even, and I'd ask him to work and he got no, I don't have anything for you. And he'd let some, some other guy come in and I'm like are you me? I've killed myself making this company for you. You're going to let somebody else work before.
Speaker 2:But those moments actually, like I had to like, really like, be humbled and just say, okay, like to not be jealous of the guy that's getting all the accolades right now and to not be angry at my uncle. Like, like to still love him despite peer mediated there you go, who made that taffy black owl. Um, to still love my uncle, even though he took things away from me and he dropped my bonus bag down and he was letting other guys work. It was almost like he was teaching me a lesson, my uncle too, because I had gone in and demanded something when I, when he needed me, and he really had no choice but to give it to me, because I kind of had him by the balls in that position. Like it was like you, you need me right now, I want this, I want this, this, this and this, and he had to give it to me. And then, when he didn't need me anymore, it was like, yeah, okay, we'll play that game yeah.
Speaker 4:It's kind of the same thing with YouTube, Because it's like you want your show to succeed but if it comes at the price of your own soul it's not worth it. And it's like I think in the Catholic context, like Satan's bargaining chip is you can be big, but you just have to completely destroy or trash another person. It's not like an intellectual criticism of a position, like we talked about, but it's like you are an actual deplorable and you must be destroyed in some form or fashion. And all you Patreon donors, you come to me, etc. That's the ultimate temptation for Gathered.
Speaker 2:Nick, part of the reason me and Rob decided to do this members thing was because it's too tempting to just do clickbait. Part of the reason me and Rob started decided to do this members thing was because it's too tempting to just do clickbait and I and I wanted to make sure the people who do like our show enough to pay monthly, like they have to get more content. And I'm not going to worry about getting new people in. I'd rather, now that we have like a a decent size of the of of the of the paid members, it's like we want to give you guys something that's yours and it's. These conversations are better than the shows where it's like flashy topics. To me I think they're just like natural conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah like for a live show. This is definitely better. This is going to be a pain to try to find any he's not going to be any flash.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. For a live show, this is definitely better. This is going to be a pain to try to find any. It's not going to be any flashy clips because we didn't. I didn't come in here with a list of topics and stories to talk about. I figured let's just talk to my friend. I said before we came on, I shot out on Twitter. I said this is slow news day, like there's just nothing happening. I dude, I go. I I'm like browsing the news all day to find something worth talking about and there's nothing. There's not a single channel that put a video out today that I wanted to click on. Not one, like I it was. There wasn't a Taylor video that wasn't. A Tim video that wasn't, and nobody. I mean I'm just using them but like nobody and click on that. There's just nothing worth talking about in the news. So what did I do? I'm like let's just talk and get the audience feedback. I figured, if you guys have questions, throw them in. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:The one from Immortality. Let me put that up for everyone.
Speaker 2:You people, man, you're about to see something funny on YouTube. If you haven't seen it on Locals, here it comes. It's such a bad, it's such a bad edit. It's so bad. The freaking Photoshop is terrible. The other one was definitely bad too. Yeah, if you guys have, uh, any topics you want us to discuss or anything, deeply personal questions that we shouldn't answer, whatever yeah, it's the show to get them in.
Speaker 2:I and I. I think you guys would prefer shows like this for membership stuff. Right, I mean we could do. I'll come in with better topics next time, but I don't think you guys would prefer shows like this for membership stuff. Right, I mean we could do. I'll come in with better topics next time, but I don't think you guys mind. I think you guys like hanging with us.
Speaker 4:It's more of a communal feel here. I like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the people that are watching tonight like to hang with us, like that's, you know, just whatever the hell comes up. Nothing, we're men what do you do for arthritis? Whatever the hell comes up, nothing, we're men. What do you do for arthritis? I have arthritis, dude, when it gets bad. Advil. That's about it. What else?
Speaker 1:can you do? Why won't we have said it?
Speaker 2:but contests on the show. It would. I wouldn't, he would. What the hell do you talk to him about? I'm okay, I'll tell you guys, too satisfied about it like no, I'm not, no, I don't even care about that. Like I'll tell you who's coming on the show. Um, anthony anthony campbell uh, new crusade and majority, majority, majority musings they're coming on the show. Anthony Campbell New Crusade and Majorians Musings they're coming on the show.
Speaker 1:Ah, damn it, bobby, that was right out of it.
Speaker 2:What did Bobby say? Why does Rob think most people shouldn't have a spiritual director? Okay, we'll get into that, but those three guys are going to come on the show, and the reason they're going to come on is because they're the guys that are showing them on the show. And the reason they're going to come on is because they're the guys that are showing. Like, if any of you guys that that are in this chat like want to get together and start something will help you.
Speaker 1:like if anybody does majorian have a channel?
Speaker 2:I don't think so. But if he wants to jump on with the new crusade and maybe do something there because I think a new crusade needs a podcast partner like I, if you guys want to kind of like you need a pop, you need a pocket, you need a tanto to your lone ranger you do. It's just like people don't like the monologue channels anymore and it's hard to get interviews for every single episode. You need a podcast partner, you need somebody to build it with, so I like I want to help those guys.
Speaker 1:Um, I would love to get bobby on here yeah, he never shows and probably right he'd never show his face, and probably rightfully so. Wouldn't show his face.
Speaker 2:He's got an ugly mug.
Speaker 3:No, that's not what I meant. He's a fed. That's why he's a literal fed.
Speaker 2:He's got an ugly mug. We don't want his face on here.
Speaker 4:I'm actually curious about Rob's take on spiritual directors. I'm kind of curious what he means by this.
Speaker 2:It just sounds so like new agey and protestant right like what every saint no, no, every single saint says you should have a spiritual director right, but that person was also usually their confessor in most cases like I. I just, I just okay, so molly molly gives you a good point here most people don't need a spiritual director. You should be decently far along in your spiritual life before if you're struggling to say a daily rosary.
Speaker 1:Spiritual direction is not going to do you much good but, yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, what, like what? I'm right there with you.
Speaker 4:I'm not any better at it, trust me, I'm just what I don't like about spiritual director culture, if you want to term it that way, is that I don't like it when it becomes one of two things Either a like oh I'm in the end if I have a spiritual director, so it's like some type of like Catholic badge of honor, or pride yeah.
Speaker 4:Or B, if it's like my spiritual director tells me to do X, y and Z. And it's like my spiritual director tells me to do X, y and Z, and it's like the worst advice ever, it's like the most liberal advice ever. And they're like yeah, I'm not going to fast at all because my spiritual director says no, I'm not going to do any Friday absences.
Speaker 2:Be very careful. Modern spiritual direction is probably very dangerous, right.
Speaker 1:You know who had spiritual directors, all the crazy Catholic charismatics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, bad stuff they do. Yeah, listen, I, I tried doing it. Okay. Um, this show somebody somebody posted today. It was a catholic posted today. He said I'm struggling with marijuana usage. I'm an addict, I'm trying to quit. What can I do to quit? This show saved me from drug addiction, it was. It was I was taking Adderall and it was like prescribed to me by a doctor.
Speaker 2:You know, it wasn't like I was like going crazy with it. I would abuse it if I work night shifts. Well that, but that's what I'm about to get into, tim, like that's what I'm about to get into. So I would abuse it if I work night shifts. When this show started, I was still taking it. Once we started trivia, I stopped taking it, like I don't know why I was able, because I wasn't.
Speaker 2:I don't have ADD. I don't have ADD. I was taking Adderall. I don't. I don't have ADD, dude, like I really don't. I really don't have ADD. I'm just sanguine, like that's all it is. But you can convince a doctor to give you any drug you want if you go in and you tell them you have ADD, like it's not hard to get it.
Speaker 2:And I was taking it and I was abusing it and I was still struggling with lust a lot when I first started this show. Like this show, doing this show twice a week, having to get my act together, not being able to be like any kind of strung out, having these conversations this show changed my life, I'm not even kidding. It fixed a lot of things that was going on in my marriage that were hard. Like my wife said it to me, we went away on that trip last weekend and she was like Anthony, that like doing that podcast changed you, like I'd already been Catholic and taking my faith seriously and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:But you're talking not that long, right, like I come in under McCarrick, right, and I was really bad in that period. I was away from the sacraments, right, and I was. I was really bad in that period. I was away from the sacraments, right, and I was. I was really bad in that period. I was away from the sacraments. I come back on the McCarrick because I have like an illumination of conscience and Even though I had that, Taffy.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, rob fixed my lust issues too.
Speaker 2:So listen, so I'm saying serious stuff, don't distract me. So I couldn't. I come back in um, and at that point I had been away from the sacraments for years, like like a two, three year period, and that was when I was taking like really heavy addderall, like a lot. So I come back in and I throw it away, but I would still have these relapses and I would relapse with lust and all this stuff. And then COVID hits and then the shot comes out and like that period is when I'm like I got to really like I got to figure something.
Speaker 2:Like I remember weeping in front of the crucifix at Holy Innocence. Man, I'm revealing way too much to you guys. I remember weeping. I was weeping in front of the crucifix at Holy Innocence. It was 2020.
Speaker 2:I was so angry at God and I'm like you promised to set the captives free like you, like it's not it, we're not Protestant, it's not. You save me and I don't pay for my sins. Like you promised to set me free. Why haven't you set me free yet? And I'm not talking for a two-week period, like I. And then I have a full, like I want to be free of this weeping bro. Like freaking, hysterically crying in the church empty church is empty and I'm just. And then I have a full, like I want to be free of this Weeping bro, like freaking, hysterically crying in the church Empty Church is empty. And I'm just freaking, crying in the back of the church to God and like this stupid show comes about and I haven't had a freaking slip up in freaking three years. Not one, Like, not one, none, not one. I'm talking not in the lust area, not the adderall area, nothing like every single day. The grace that god gave me in having this thing, like if we stop this, I might fall off a cliff.
Speaker 1:I can't, oh, dude, don't. Oh, now I'm stuck doing this forever continue, anthony will go to hell.
Speaker 4:That's just. That's just what will happen.
Speaker 1:I feel like I have two spouses.
Speaker 2:I don't know why the hell I open up about half the stuff I do on this show, but it's like if anybody else is like struggling with this kind of stuff, so the kid that's asking what do I do? I'm struggling with pod addiction. It's like you need to replace it with something you put your heart into.
Speaker 1:That's what it was. That's the sin that I forgot oh Sloth can lead. You know, when you're doing nothing else, there's always sin, dude.
Speaker 2:That's what it was. Let me tell you something. One thing this show has taken away is laziness. Right Like me and Rob are working constantly behind the scenes trying to figure things out. Rob's doing stuff on the tail end. I'm always I'm. You guys have no idea how much my brain is constantly on. How can I bring something valuable to you guys, like because it's easy to find, like a good news story and whatever. But I do think, like the the valuable moments come and when you don't have a news story and you could just sit and talk and Anthony spills his guts about how he was fricking a drug addict.
Speaker 4:You can kind of tell. You can kind of tell a difference, because I remember like five, six months ago I went back and I watched some like really early episodes where it would just be you, anthony, especially. It was just like, like this guy is so different. He's like his voice seems higher pitched, he seems like, yeah, like way more frail, like I don't know, you just seem like a completely different person.
Speaker 2:When I first started, yeah, my teeth were all messed up.
Speaker 4:It was bad yeah, I was like you. You seem like a guy who like just got out of jail and you were like really gun shy, I never spoke crack in my life.
Speaker 2:I I did. I mean honestly. Like my childhood, like even in my early 20s I partied a lot man. Like when I married, like my early years of marriage I partied a lot man. Go out and freaking, get hammered with the boys without the wife around, get myself into trouble. I not, I was not good those early years, like I don't know how my wife made it through it with me. Bad, bad stuff. Man Like I, I thank God. Like, save me from some, save my marriage for sure. Like it.
Speaker 2:Just like that, when I tell you guys that story about um, me and my wife had to, like I had to stay at my mom's house, not because we were going to get divorced, because we could not talk to each other, like we could not have a conversation together. It was a week before covid hit, or two weeks before covid hit and I stayed at my mom's for two weeks and it was during it must've been Lent because I had given up, like I was down to eating like a piece of bread a day, praying my rosary daily, fasting and praying nonstop during that period for my marriage. And then COVID hits and I go back home and me and my wife early on in COVID had one of the most beautiful periods in our marriage because I was going through a lot of like, like deep soul searching, finding God again and like spending that time with my family, having those home liturgies. Everything was shut down. I had no traffic coming home from work. I was able to get home in a half an hour. I was home every day at three o'clock like really spending time with my kids. Nobody was on their phones. We were playing games together every night.
Speaker 2:It was just that early days of COVID, man. I look back on as scary as everybody thought they were, like it was the most beautiful time for me and that year is like when god really got a hold of me and then I started doing episodes on on this freaking channel by myself at first and then it just became what it is now, man, and it's like I, like I. It's crazy because you really don't see god working until it's in hindsight yeah, that's at the time, man, when I was in front of that crucifix crying, I was like where are you, god?
Speaker 2:I didn't. He was completely absent in my life. It felt. It felt like he was completely absent but he was doing something. I mean, you just don't know until later.
Speaker 1:The chat is blaming you for COVID. Now they're saying oh great. It. What are they saying?
Speaker 2:god answered your prayers by hitting the world, uh, um, well, no, but like even this right, like dude, a lot of people come back to god when they're at their lowest right, like, and there's something about, um, thank you, molly, because so many people trash us, because we uh, um, yeah, a lot of people are not happy with the lack of trivia um.
Speaker 2:Anthony is our spike protein, but the uh, there's something about when you're addicted to, to drugs and okay, so like it's almost like the story of when the woman comes, was it Mary Magdalene who comes and washes Christ's feet with perfume?
Speaker 4:It's Mary, the mother of Martha.
Speaker 2:So she comes, and she was a prostitute wasn't she?
Speaker 4:That one wasn't, no, but what she was doing was highly scandalous, because in Jewish society women covered their hair for everything, unless they were husbands. And then also the amount of money for which that perfume cost was just insane.
Speaker 2:But I feel like maybe that's not the right story then, because Christ Jesus says well, it was very taboo.
Speaker 4:Like they're not married and she's like it's, it's it was man, it's she.
Speaker 2:she will be forgiven much, she will love much, Because she has been forgiven much yeah it's the same.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm just making sure I'm not mixing them up. So she will love much Because she has been forgiven much and somebody who's been In the depths of addiction that they just Can't get out of. Like you, just See a level of being that prodigal son to where, like a person who never, like committed like serious sin, can, can grasp, like you, just you're just so grateful to god that he rescued you from that pit. You know it's like. So you know, if I tell this story it's because if anybody's in that pit and they come across this story, it could help them. It's like if you, if you don't open up about things like that, like you, you don't know who it's going to resonate with. That's why we love conversion stories.
Speaker 1:I have an idea for trivia.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:We said we were going to do it right to celebrate 20,000.
Speaker 2:We're doing it April 1st. Then we're going to screw everybody over and say April Fool's is what we said.
Speaker 1:I know first, then we're gonna screw everybody over and say april fools is what we said. I know how about this, how about we do trivial one more time, one last time on april. Pass it on to anthony, and I would do that, yeah have them on as guests and we will get.
Speaker 2:Listen to me, you guys don't realize that is a great entryway into this arena. You will get a lot of people interested. I don't care what anybody says. That was a great, freaking idea I had. It was a good idea. It was a good idea nobody else was doing it anywhere and it was a good way, like it was a way to get our names known. People were talking about us and it was a way to get to know our audience. Our audience was telling jokes during it, like we'll have to teach you guys how to do it the right way. So yeah, I'll do an episode with you guys and pass the baton on it's pretty easy.
Speaker 4:You just have to rig half the games and yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2:You have to screw your audience over. Whoever wins, they're never allowed to win the prize exactly so bobby's got a great idea the lap.
Speaker 1:If we do it one more time, well, let's do trivia, but let's do it about the show Ooh, that's actually a really good idea. And then, if they want to share it or whatever, whoever takes up the torch, then we can be on their show, on their first trivia show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, listen, Okay. So there's something important about helping the younger guys out that I don't see the other content creators doing. What I see the other content creators doing is looking to get a guest on who will benefit them.
Speaker 1:And then gatekeeping.
Speaker 2:And yeah, and I I didn't want to get into that too much because I knew a lot of people would see that episode, but that's what's happening Right, so they're having people on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we really just don't want to ever talk about it again.
Speaker 2:That would be good. No, but I want to help. I want to help the. I want to help other guys out Like I really do. I want to help another set of guys that are that are that are looking to get our audience because you guys are perfect, because our audience will like you. You guys are part of our audience, right? So the idea is you want to help guys who are at the ground up, right and dude.
Speaker 2:A lot of guys did help us on our way up when we had 1,000 subscribers, 2,000 subscribers, and that's why I freaking love those guys to this day. That's why you'll never hear me say a bad word about Tim Gordon. You'll never hear me say a bad word about Taylor Marshall. You'll never hear me say a bad word about Taylor Marshall. You'll never hear me say a bad word about any of those guys who were way bigger than us and came on and helped us out. Regardless of if I have something that annoyed like I don't care. Those guys helped us when we were nobody. So I want to.
Speaker 2:I want to do that for other guys that, especially guys. I, like you know, like Rob and I, have always had a rule where if anybody asked us, even if they had 500 subs. If somebody asked to interview us, we say yes, Like it's just a lot of guys did that for us. But there's a very big difference in going on and letting somebody interview you and you bringing them on your show. So also, Crash Catholic, Crash Cannon, Crash Cannon, Crash Cannon. We have to bring him on and help him out.
Speaker 2:Yep, crash, cannon, crash cannon crash, cannon we have to bring him on and help him out.
Speaker 1:Yep, I'm going on with him next week or the week after, something like that.
Speaker 2:I know you've been on with him already I went on with him like a week or two ago. Really good dude he's got, uh, I think he has five kids. Um, he used to host the show about video games. That's why, like when I first found out about him, I was like, is this guy just trying to steal a Catholic audience? But he's really a video gamer and I didn't know. And then we had a really good conversation. He was a really good dude.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, those guys who watch our show, I'm just reading a comment from when we first started talking about trivia a few minutes ago. That was Jeremiah's idea. He made this show talking about trivia a few minutes ago.
Speaker 2:That's what that was jeremiah's idea. He made this show. He made this show. He did claim that.
Speaker 1:I know he did he did claim that, um, but yeah, he wants to know how we managed to get mel gibson that one time father dave nicks.
Speaker 2:father dave nicks got that for us and I I I was hamstrung, I wasn't allowed to talk about anything I wanted to talk about. So I'm pretty bad in that interview because I'm sitting there, father Nix told me and Rob beforehand he goes, I'll start the interview and I promise I'll pass it to you and he never passed it to me.
Speaker 1:I had a list of questions. I can only assume he was getting ready at that half hour mark when Mel had to go.
Speaker 2:He never passed it to me. It's like no, no, I'll make sure you get a chance to ask questions. He never passed it to me, so I had to jump in at one point and then, dude, I had the best question for him and the for any any hangs up. Like he met he, we lose connection with him, we have to restart the. And then I didn't even ask that question again.
Speaker 2:What was the question? The question was how do you go? Because we were talking about faith in film. That was the whole point of it. And my question was how do you go about making a film about faith without going down the corny road Like something? Like you know, it's a very difficult thing to balance bringing an element of faith into film without making it cheesy. Thank you, nick. Very difficult thing to balance bringing an element of faith into film without making it cheesy. And I wanted to ask him about um, uh, apocalypto, because apocalypto shows the pre Christian pagan Americas and to me that's like, that's like the gospel arriving to the Americas. I think that's one of his best faith films. Yeah, better than the seventh day Adventist kid movie that we arriving to the Americans.
Speaker 2:I think that's one of his best faith films yeah, better than the seventh day Adventist kid movie that we talked to him about. It's almost as good as the passion to me and father Nix was like I don't, I don't want you to talk about that because I'm a priest and there's naked children in the movie and yeah, that was literally the next faith and film.
Speaker 1:We did a movie with, uh, with naked people in it.
Speaker 2:No, it was because we did that the episode oh was it and that's what made him give, gave him pause, so but for the next, I can't him too like I couldn't. Can't thank him enough for giving us that opportunity. It just I was like being quiet which I'm not normally quiet waiting for him to pass the baton and he kind of didn't do that, but I think he was was. You know he's talking to Mel Gibson, you're a little nervous and you want to freaking.
Speaker 4:We even, we even thank Michael Lofton for the hype videos that we had.
Speaker 1:No, no, we don't.
Speaker 2:Sorry, nick, the first, the first, Michael Lofton. Even the throwing us off screen bit the first time you did that. I don't know if I've ever laughed that hard. It was just just so freaking funny when rob threw me off screen that first time and it just became like just funny things that have happened on this show. That just freaking became part of the show. But um, you remember?
Speaker 1:the, the anthony, anthony, yeah, anthony, yeah, the guy pretending to be a gay version of you there was.
Speaker 2:There was like a leftist that didn't like my point of view on women and he joined the trivia show as aunt honey and he had a rainbow flag and he was calling me gay it was oh my gosh and you can tell him you are going to hell.
Speaker 4:No, I I think that the second video we did about lofton, though I think was the moment that our channel like really started to, it was a new chapter just because, for sure, all the people in that chat, all the big names, all showed up and it was just so. That was a big show man.
Speaker 2:Matt frad was in the chat, brian holsworth was in the chat, kennedy hall was in the chat. There was that show. If you've never seen. It was a good show man. Like just, it was just like something exciting about it and when we got off the air we knew it was gold, like we just knew we had a hit on it. But the first lofton rep was 100 on him. He went after me and then when we went on air I was going to apologize, like I was like we're not going to go on and rip into him, like we literally robbed me and rob were in the green room.
Speaker 1:Like no, we'll handle this right and then I'm going to rip into the green room.
Speaker 2:I see that he's streaming he was streaming another episode about me talking about on, go on.
Speaker 1:And I see Anthony just starting to fume, I'm like, oh no, oh no, dude, it was the first time I like what I did with Alex the other day.
Speaker 2:the first time I ever did that was with Lofton and people loved it. Oh, enoch, he stole Enoch's flow Like I don't know why. Everybody thought it was so funny. I was so freaking angry that night I was just like I just freaking lost it I was in the gym and I that was stop it, it's gay yeah, that was.
Speaker 4:It was that first lofton video I screen. I screen recorded that and I've made that a clip. I was like this would be great because it was just so funny. I was, I was, I was in a gym working out and then all of a sudden I just hear it it's gay, stop it. I bust out laughing in the middle of it dude, it's like you, freaking lost every.
Speaker 2:These guys were on your show. They were your friends and you burn the bridge with every single one of them.
Speaker 1:I hope you're happy, michael yeah no, you did, you made it swear, did never mentioned that first off.
Speaker 2:He thought it was the funniest thing ever. What I did, though Michael pulled all of Enoch's shows with him. He pulled them all off his channel because Enoch went on with Taylor. Enoch never said I've never heard Enoch say a bad word about anybody, including michael lofton, to this day.
Speaker 4:Yeah, in some of those uh raps of like greatest catholic youtubers and stuff dude enoch talk about a man of virtue like he's just.
Speaker 2:He's just the freaking best dude like if you knew him in real life. Like todd knows enoch in real life. They're friends in real life. Like he's just nobody like him and but he still thinks like, even like some of the more ruthless things we've done, like he thinks they're hilarious. He just can't say it publicly. You know that episode was good, um yeah we've had quite the journey, guys.
Speaker 1:the co-sleeping, oh man. I still feel so bad to Kennedy for that. The co-sleeping literally was almost the end of this show it was.
Speaker 4:It was, and it was funny watching it from the outside because I was streaming it that night. It's like, oh cool Kennedy's on and I was like what the heck is going on? These two are going to murder each other because it was talking about.
Speaker 2:You guys were talking about something like is the sspx and sysm? And I just remember commenting, no, no, no, dude, okay, so here's. Here's what happened. I'll tell you guys the real co-sleeping story. And then we got to get off because I got. I got work tomorrow. So, um, the the debate, I think, started something to do with angela and angela is very passionate about that subject, and angela and I had had a falling out behind the scenes and we were just getting ready to like start talking again and patch things up like literally days before I'm talking with anthony like dude, come on, just just make it like just fix it, fix this.
Speaker 2:We were about to fix things up and I had some like really important, like I had some really strong opinions on co sleep. Like every once in a while I'll have like uh, uh, something comes to me like I'm like this is actually kind of important. I want to talk about.
Speaker 2:You get manic about things that yeah, like I want to talk about this, like this is something I want to talk about, and rob, you get manic about things. Yeah, like I want to talk about this, like this is something I want to talk about. And Rob was like, nah, man, I don't think it's a good idea. So what happened was Angela had said something about co-sleeping on Twitter and I was like I wrote a bunch of stupid tweets saying like I'm going to lose friends over this one, not thinking she was going to take it so personally and stuff like that. Like I personally, and stuff like that. I just wasn't thinking it was never meant to hurt her. It was just me not thinking, trying to be hyperbolic on Twitter. You know me, I'm an idiot.
Speaker 2:We come on the show and Rob does not want to have the conversation. But I don't understand why he doesn't want to have the conversation. I think he's just like nah, I'm not interested in talking about this. I even think it's because he co-sleeps with his kids and he's being defensive. But that's not what it was, mother. It's not what it was. What it was is he didn't want to see things boil up with me and angela. Yeah, yeah, like that's really why rob was upset but I didn't know that and we had a real fight on air about it and he was angry at me.
Speaker 2:And kennedy comes on has no idea this just took place. And kennedy starts talking and I think me and rob just had like an argument on air and I text rob while kennedy's talking. I go dude, people are gonna like that fight. It was a very real moment. And he just texts me back. He goes I don't give a flying f what anybody thinks. He was mad and I didn't understand. I'm like what the hell is happening here? Like I didn't know what I'm like. What am I missing here?
Speaker 2:so we have an amazing interview with people, with kennedy which I don't remember to this day because I was kennedy comes on and the Matrix comes up and he starts talking about how the guys who made the Matrix are trans and I go yeah, their parents probably co-slept with them. Like I made a joke about co-sleeping with Kennedy it's one of the funniest lines I've ever said and it got nothing. Rob didn't laugh. He was so angry. It was like we just come off this fight where it's like real. It was like a real moment. Kennedy comes on and I'm like and I make that joke and I just see rob rob's not even listening to the conversation with kennedy he's not at all freaking which is twitter.
Speaker 1:He's like I have. I've listened to it, since it's's like man Kennedy really opened up about what he went through. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm a trad. I'm like, thank God I wasn't as emotionally invested because I didn't know what was going on, because I was able to conduct the Kennedy interview. Because I just was confused, like I was like I don't even know what the hell Rob saw a man about right now, like I didn't even understand it. So I was able to conduct the Kennedy interview. The Like I didn't even understand it. So I was able to conduct the Kennedy interview.
Speaker 2:The Kennedy interview ends, we get off air and I'm just thinking like all right, this is, we're going to cool off here and everything will be fine. And then I go on Twitter and I see Angela loses it. She's really upset and she's like I see, oh, so you think you're going to lose friends. Like she was really upset and I was a total asshole for doing this, like I was a total asshole for doing this. But I wasn't thinking about Angela like that, like it wasn't, like I was trying to hurt Angela. I was just thinking about putting on a show. I was just thinking about tweet, like I just wasn't.
Speaker 1:For anyone who doesn't know Angela from Integrated with Angela Erickson, was on Trivia all the time with us and Nick just did a show with Angela two, three days ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nick just did a show with Angela. So if you guys haven't seen that, it's on Nick's channel and it's on Angela's channel and they talk about marital debt and stuff like that. They should have talked about co-sleeping, it would have been funny 's.
Speaker 1:what's awesome is when was that? Two years ago or so about that so hope. And I have. Uh, we basically purposefully conceived a fourth child in order to ask anthony to be the godfather and angela to be the godmother, so so, I'm going to see Angela in in the summer.
Speaker 2:I'm excited, dude, I can't wait, like I really can't wait to see Angela. Like, thank God, all this stuff blew over, and so Angela and I wound up having a conversation I'll, we'll get to there. But so that night we get off air and I'm like all right, I was a little awkward, but like then I see this all blowing up on Twitter and stuff and Rob shoots me a text and he goes. Dude, I'm done, he goes. I'm not doing this anymore. And he was dead, freaking serious I was. I was serious Dead 36 hours Dead. Serious, like he was done, he goes. I'm taking my name off everything. I'm switching all the accounts into your name. I'm not losing my soul over this shit. And I'm like I look at the text, rob, I'm not going to lie, we had just started making money. We were just at that point where we started making money and I'm like man, am I actually going to consider the money?
Speaker 1:right now.
Speaker 4:Like the thought went through my head.
Speaker 2:I'm like, and I'm like no, like, no, no, no, no, no. And so I texted Rob back and I go listen, I know you're furious with me right now. Take a night to sleep on a decision like that. Like you don't just pull out when you're angry in the moment. I said just take a day to sleep on it, we'll talk tomorrow. The next day we talked, he was still furious, like he still did not want to talk to me, and I'm like, alright, give it another day. And I remember talking to Father Nix, because I was like I gotta talk to somebody about this and Father Nix was going to like Mediate between us. And I'm like I don't think that's necessary. I'm like I think he's very upset right now.
Speaker 2:Let father nicks did call me yeah, but I, because rob had said some mean shit to me, I did. Yeah, rob said some really like, really mean shit to me. I did, um, like I like he was upset, but so was I like this. You guys don't know how like he was upset, but so was I like this. You guys don't know how like this, this was very serious. This wasn't just I upset, angela.
Speaker 2:It was like Rob was so mad at me and I never seen him snap like that and he said some hurtful shit to me and it was like it was really, it was really. It was really rough. But I know Rob enough to know like, give him a day or two and he'll calm down. So like that did happen, like rob calmed down. But even when we continue to do so, like I said rob, come on, think about how much work we put into this, think about how, and it was like we're gonna figure this out and this is like men have fights and we figure it out, you know. But even those, even those two months after, that was still hard for us because there was no real like. He was still mad at me. We were performing and nobody knew there was tension behind the scenes, but it was a performance and we had to work through that like that's what, that's why molly thanks, molly Thanks, vicious, vicious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it can be really bad.
Speaker 2:I'm not even going to repeat this. When I start to get mad.
Speaker 1:it takes a while for it to build up, but while it's building up, I'm thinking of all the things I can say.
Speaker 2:You can say it hurt me. Yeah, I don't think we meant it. You were just trying to hurt me.
Speaker 1:There are some things that I still think were good points. But, yes, I think, but I like, okay, I don't. I don't try to lie Right, like I mean what I say, but I phrase them in a way that I know is going to cut to the bone and hurt.
Speaker 2:And that's especially because I'm already self-conscious about certain things. Yes, that's what I generally. Yeah, I'm already self-conscious about certain things. So he knew the button, the button to push, yep so, and I pushed it hard and yeah, but well, the we all have.
Speaker 2:We all have things that we tend towards. So it's like like, yeah, like he knows, he knows what I'm sensitive to, because I'm like always worried that that's what I'm doing in this, whatever. So like so those two months after that happens, like it was a very there was no friendship behind the scenes like we were. We were business partners for that period and it it was weird. It was weird Like it was like I don't know it was. We weren't acting like it towards each other, but I knew there was like some. I was like I hope we work through this man and it took about two months and something good must have happened and we just called each other on the phone and we were excited about something together. I think that was the repair of it. But I'm each other on the phone and we were excited about something together. I think that was the repair of it. But I'm not even kidding the past, like the past, probably year man, what?
Speaker 2:what like, maybe it was pennsylvania from pennsylvania on. Was that after pennsylvania, before pennsylvania?
Speaker 1:I think it was before. It was before. Pa. No, the the episode with kennedy. I just pulled it up here. When was that? That was uh man adrian with the freaking innuendo buddy that is literally just what we said, though when was the date on this? Does it give me a date?
Speaker 2:stupid youtube so, um, yeah, I, I can't, I can't remember. It probably was pennsylvania when, like, we finally got to like hang out in person. Might have, might have been something after that. But like the past year has been like I don't know, like that, like I remember telling, like because nicole kept asking me she's like how are you and rob, how are you and rob? I'm like we're getting better, we're getting better.
Speaker 2:Um, but like the past, especially the past six months, it's been like I feel like I got my friend back, like I got my friend back, like we're friends again and we're talking every day and it's like. That's why I said, like tim, that's kind of why I wanted to talk about the tim thing, where he was saying, like two, when two people are running a show, it's not easy, man, you're dealing with two personalities that one might have an idea to go one way and the other might have an idea to go the other way. It's not, it's not an easy thing to to manage. But the the last conversation we had about it was look, no matter what, what the hell happens, like I'd rather tank the show than lose you as my friend.
Speaker 2:Like I'd seriously rather walk away from the show than lose Rob as my friend so no matter what happens here, like our friendship has to come first If we're ever upset with each other you're going to be.
Speaker 1:You're going to be my son's God.
Speaker 2:That's the like and that means something to me, right? So it's like the I, I can't. I, I've learned so much about managing friendships through this show and relationships that, even like through all the different people we've met and all these things, like it's not easy to manage relationships and friendships. And me and Rob talked about you, nick. It was like like I, like I, I I don't, because we've caught comments where people like when, especially when you voice your sspx, opinions and stuff like, people will be like or when you sit there and kind of stew on them while someone talks about the novus ordo yeah, like so we've had, we've had comments where people are like maybe you could get the SSPX conversation out of the thing and maybe do a show with just you and Anthony, and it's like okay.
Speaker 2:So if one or two people said that I don't care, Like I love Nick, he's my brother, Like I don't care if somebody doesn't like his opinion on the SSPX, Like I don't care at this point, Like Like I care too much about Nick at this point. So I don't give a shit. If somebody in the audience is upset at something you said like we're beyond that, Like we've met, we've built real friendships here. It's not like this isn't like oh, you know somebody on Twitter. Like we're like it's beyond that. I'm going to be godfather to Rob's kid. I've spent time with people that I've met through this show. I freaking went to Italy with Bobby. I've got like it's, this is not just a freaking YouTube show, I don't know. It's more than that. So that's kind of where we're at right now, and part of the Thursday membership show is to give you guys more of an inside look of some of this stuff. That's part of why I wanted to do this, because I don't really care so much about growth anymore.
Speaker 4:I care more about, like nurturing this, the friendships that we've made yeah, I often, I oftentimes will have sometimes people reach out to me and they're they'll. They'll give me some type of crap about one of you two, um, and I always tell them to go pound sand because it's just like you know.
Speaker 4:Most of the time it's again these hyperbolic emotional criticisms where it's just like you know you're not coming at it with the perspective of you know I disagree with such and such on this point of view. It's like this person's horrible, they're destroying X, y and Z and it's just like you don't understand or know these people like, form a relationship with this person. If not, if you're just going to sit there and and belittle someone, just go pound sand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I, I this is kind of what I always try to talk Like I think this is part of patriarchy, like I just I don't hear anybody talking about it, but I do think it's part of patriarchy being somebody that can bring people together and they have different perspectives and they don't agree on anything, but it doesn't matter. Like there's something more to a friendship than agreeing with people on everything it's. It's not about that. It's about really trying to loyalty and keeping people together Even when shit gets really hard. Loyalty and keeping people together even when shit gets really hard that freaking incident man was probably such an important part of the development of this show that tense period was a really important part.
Speaker 1:That was almost two months after Pennsylvania. By the way, I just looked, it was the end of november 2023 because it makes sense, because that's why you reached out to father nicks, because we had both spent time with them.
Speaker 2:that's right, man. It's just, uh, yeah that. But that whole incident, I think kind of like forged our friendship and fire, like I I really do Like it's not it, yeah. And I wound up and I wound up having a conversation with Angela. That didn't go great because there was like there was some things in the background there that she didn't see my perspective on and stuff, and she like I hurt her and I like I hurt her and I like it sucks when you hurt somebody, especially when you don't do it on purpose but you hurt them, and it's like it's like I had my justifications for doing it in my head but like it gives a crap, like it's like I like I hurt somebody and it's it sucks when you hurt somebody for apologizing, because it wasn't just angela. Angela didn't participate in the public, um, the public coming down on me.
Speaker 2:but if anybody remembers, what you said from that whole thing yeah, man, the whole freaking, all of twitter came after me like ruthless all those women I think it took molly six months to start talk like talking and following you on twitter too.
Speaker 2:Her and I have had heated things too and she's taken time to like warm up to me and like see that I'm not the guy I'm tweet, that's tweeting, you know. But that incident that went down on twitter, from that whole thing it got ruthless, like the things people were saying to me and about me were ridiculous to the point where. No, this is my tuesday and thursday night thing. It's like kitchen table.
Speaker 1:Oh no, no, I'm not even hold on, oh boy, oh no you guys are the worst.
Speaker 2:I am done with Black.
Speaker 1:Owl. That's enough, that's too far.
Speaker 2:So that whole thing that happened on Twitter, it was so bad that people that didn't like me were like guys, come on, this is enough. You guys are going too far, including freaking Rob because he was so mad at me that Rob added to it.
Speaker 1:I egged it on. He was so mad at me that rob added to it and I egged it on.
Speaker 2:That was part of the thing that happened and I freaking called him up and I go I don't give a shit how mad you are me, stay out of this. Let them say what they gotta say.
Speaker 1:Don't let them like divide us, like don't I think I think that's what started to like get me to cool down.
Speaker 2:It's like holy, I really did do something bad here, like yeah, everybody came down on me and it was, it was bad it's probably also really awkward that two month period too, because it's like everyone kept making jokes in the comment section and it's just. It took a while for me and rob to be able to make light of it yeah, like now it's like, but I, I don't nobody really knew we make co-sleeping jokes.
Speaker 1:You guys didn't know this no, like we might have laughed at those comments for like, but it was we were. We were acting for a few months, that it was fun. Yeah, it was it was purely business.
Speaker 2:for the two months after that we were able to still be friends on screen, but there wasn't anything behind the show that was a friendship. It was just kind of like, all right, we're going through the motions, we're still being funny and we're still having good rapport on the show. But I started to make those comments on the day. I'm sure you did, grover.
Speaker 1:We know, Grover.
Speaker 2:But it was what happened to me on twitter. It it also um, like I got to a point where I was like I don't give a shit what anybody thinks about. Like it toughened me up to go because at first I was like reading every comment I'm like, oh, should I defend myself? So what happened was I apologized to angela and people thought I was apologizing to all the vicious women that were coming Cause they came at me like a which is COVID, like in a way, I was just like you, fricking women are vile, like all of them. I just they thought they were like getting to him. Like you, you're all disgusting. All of your husbands should take your phone away. You just sickening. Like that's how I felt about them. I was like how do any of you think it's appropriate to yell at someone else's husband on the internet? Like, get off the internet all of you. Like that's how I felt.
Speaker 2:But I did feel bad for hurting my friend Angela, like very bad. So I apologized to Angela and everybody took it like I was cowering to the mob. That's not what I was doing, I was just I hurt one particular person. So I was trying to, not because, because what if rob wasn't mad at me, I'd have freaking like I don't give a shit about co-sleeping, like I don't care. All you women want to sleep in bed with your kids. You don't want to sleep with your husband. That's what I wanted to say. It's like yeah, I know why you guys all love co-sleeping, so you know that's. That would have been my reaction to. I know there's way more to co-sleeping than that. Rob.
Speaker 2:Stop rolling your eyes no, I wasn't but like you guys know me, and when somebody comes after me I want to react a certain way. But there was a person I cared about involved in it and I couldn't, so I had to just kind of take it all and just sit there and just let people say awful shit about me without defending myself at all. It was a rough man. I forgot how much went down through that.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know what it was. Someone in the chat says it was trad recovery that reunited you guys. It might be that was like spring and summer, like four or five months after that most corny crap of all time yeah, I'll say this though, man I like because my wife kept asking me.
Speaker 2:She's like how are you? And rob, because nicole was very worried about us. Rob, like she was very worried about she, wasn't worried about the show, she's worried about us, like she was worried about us and it's like like I'm so happy I had her to talk to during that time because, like she, like she kept me, uh, very measured and jeremiah started the show and repaired it.
Speaker 4:The real engine of this show, ab recovery I'm sure we'll have some type of section at the second conference coming up you gotta make another episode.
Speaker 2:Anthony now let me ask you something. Do you think this whole segment is appropriate to put publicly on YouTube? I don't see why not honestly because I honestly think it was probably um most we've ever revealed of behind the scenes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:But that's the thing about a show that you're seeing on the internet. You don't know what goes into these and that's why I tell you guys, we put a lot into it. You're not just putting time in, you're putting your emotions into something like this. You're putting your heart into it. You're putting relationships on the line. There's a lot that goes into putting something like this together and maintaining it and maintaining the friendships through it, and it's like it's not as easy as people that people think you just throw on a camera and it's like, oh yeah, these guys are great. It's a lot, man. It takes time away from our families. It's like my wife on Tuesdays and Thursday nights wants to kill me because I come in. She's sleeping right now and I'm going to walk in and turn all the lights on to get myself in the bed. I got to wake up at 4am, so we went long tonight. We're going to wrap this because I do have to get to sleep. Well, margo's still in here.
Speaker 1:I thought margo would have bailed a while ago on just because of the length of the show or because of the daily yeah I.
Speaker 2:I haven't seen margo like stick around for a full live show in a long time margo, I want to apologize for the other day on twitter. I was a little harsh on you so I'm sorry, I will say this I genuinely like her fiancee I like I I really like him he, he's like, he's very funny he's, he's a margo.
Speaker 1:We're all very happy for you um yeah, I'm never gonna not make fun of you for the whole daily wire thing, but just know like if I get a little melancholic on twitter at you, it's because it's just.
Speaker 2:It's who I am wire stuff.
Speaker 5:It's not gonna be you personally this is the daily wire stuff, the daily wire stuff is a weird one okay.
Speaker 1:So, margo, my wife did tell me you texted her. And no, margo, I don't hate you when I do that stuff on twitter okay, Don't worry about that.
Speaker 2:She's super sensitive. Yeah, the Daily Wire stuff. Look, I feel bad for her because she has so many friends in the Daily Wire and we're so averse to the Daily Wire fans. It's not the Daily Wire as much as the Daily Wire fans, but I'm still cordial with Britta. No, I can't stand her I, I don't mind her.
Speaker 2:I know what she's doing. It's like I don't mind britta. I drastically differ in opinion with her, but I don't. I. I think she's got a good heart. Britta, she's just you know, she's just a daily wire fangirl. That's all. But all right, we're gonna wrap this one up, guys. Um, yeah man, thank you guys for supporting us, because this is literally you guys like we wouldn't be able to do this without you guys. So, um, molly and uh and grover, thank you guys for doing those gifted uh memberships last episode. Very much appreciated. All of you guys that support us. Thank you guys so much. I'll try to come up with some good stuff for tuesday's live show. We'll see how that goes and uh, tuesday's supposed to be trivia, remember is that april 1st?
Speaker 2:yes, okay, you want to do it it, it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean they're being. What do we do on?
Speaker 2:thursday to give me, because I'm not going to be able to, and then nobody will think it's a april fool's joke or anything. Let's do it there to give me, because I'm not going to be able to, and then nobody will think it's an April Fool's joke or anything. Let's do it. No, because that's a member show.
Speaker 1:April 1st is the third anniversary of us starting to work together.
Speaker 2:All right, let's do it.
Speaker 1:No April.
Speaker 2:Fool's joke. No nonsense. We're going to do trivia. We're going to have Antony New Crusade and Majorian's Musings.
Speaker 1:We got New Crusade and Majorians.
Speaker 2:Musings. We gotta have Jason and Mark, jason and Mark and Nick and Nick. What, nick?
Speaker 4:I just hate trivia, man, but we'll do it, we will do it.
Speaker 2:You don't have to come. You can if you want, but you don't have to. You're always invited, is the point. So see how you feel about it.
Speaker 4:I just always win, but I never get anything.
Speaker 1:According to Jason, jason wins every time.
Speaker 4:Jason just sucks at trivia and he's just prideful. That's what it is.
Speaker 1:I'm clipping that and sending it to him.
Speaker 4:Tell him why you said it.
Speaker 2:Oh man, I got to get to bed. It's freaking 10. All right, I got to get to bed. It's freaking 1015. I have to go to bed 1020. We should pass the baton on to the homeless guy with the bicycle.
Speaker 1:We do need to have him, that guy you know he'd be interesting to talk to. Oh for sure, shake, shake face.
Speaker 2:Also, alex Malone always gives us like a 30 super chat every show. Man like that was andy malone. Andy malone, not alex alex. Alex malone we know in real life. Yes, um, andy malone. Thank you so much for your generosity. Um and um. Yeah, thank you guys. Man, this has been a long journey. It's been a lot of fun. You guys saved my lives in some ways, so I'm never gonna get over that one. All right, thank you guys. All right, take us out before I say more shit. Okay, okay, let's go. Oh yeah.
Speaker 5:We want to see things from the way they really are. Open our eyes.
