Calvin Robinson Talks about Getting Cancelled due to James White

In this lively episode, we navigate the chaos that ensues from a provocative tweet claiming that the thief on the cross was saved through Mary's prayers. The discussion reveals the underlying tensions between Protestant and Catholic beliefs, emphasizing the crucial role of joy in faith discourse. We confront how trolling and humor can highlight deeper theological debates and foster community engagement. 

• Engaging conversation with Calvin Robinson about religious trolling and community
• Discussion on the significance of Mary within varying denominations
• Exploring the role of joy and humor in modern Christianity
• Navigating the impacts of cancel culture in religious circles
• Emphasizing the importance of tradition and beauty in worship

Join us as we continue these compelling discussions and engage meaningfully with the complexities of faith today.

Chapters

• 0:02 Protestant Conference Controversy and Cancelation
• 10:36 Protestant-Catholic Theological Differences
• 23:04 Mary's Intercession in Christian Theology
• 32:22 Conference Controversy and Cancellation
• 44:06 Future of Christian Tradition
• 52:36 Navigating Traditionalism and Cultural Change
• 1:00:39 Faith, Freedom, and Fraternity
• 1:11:37 Living in Grand Rapids and Chastisement
• 1:15:45 Catholic Charities and Pilgrimages
• 1:28:58 Planning a Meetup in Grand Rapids

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Sancte, sancte, amare morti. Decadastros In taste. Bell of error.

Speaker 3: 0:32

Good gay marriage, though right. Is that different?

Speaker 1: 0:35

If a gay man wants to marry a gay woman, I'm all for it.

Speaker 4: 0:38

You didn't have to cut me off. I'm a man, shake a bucket and I I'm a man. We were nothing. I don't even need your love. So drink like a gang and don't be so alone. All right, all right, guys, you're going to have to bear with my terrible microphone tonight. My mic is down, so I'm using the computer mic. How bad is it? Is it awful in the?

Speaker 1: 0:59

Sounds like you went back to smoking Newports.

Speaker 2: 1:03

Sounds like you're underwater, but it's okay.

Speaker 4: 1:06

Oh no, all right. Well, calvin robinson, welcome to our program, and meanwhile this is going to be. There's going to be people checking in that have never seen our show, because I'm sure everybody wants to hear the. Uh, the little story, rob, do we have? Did I send the uh clip of james White to the thing?

Speaker 1: 1:24

No, but actually yeah. Plus I mean it's in about a thousand places on Twitter right now. Okay, all right.

Speaker 4: 1:30

Good, all right. So before anything, rob and I will be speaking at a conference in North Carolina on February 8th.

Speaker 1: 1:42

In Charlotte, In Charlotte North.

Speaker 4: 1:43

Carolina, carolina. On February 8th in Charlotte, north Carolina, there's a there's a real contingent of leftist Catholics trying to get us canceled at this.

Speaker 1: 1:50

All one of them.

Speaker 4: 1:52

Yeah, there's one leftist Catholic trying to get us canceled. So if you guys are able, please support us by going to that conference. We would love to show the diocese that we could sell an event out because, uh, you know this, this, this is getting a little crazy. But um other than that, all right. So a little backstory. I'm so frazzled from this stupid microphone thing. Um little backstory, um. About. What was it about two weeks ago, father?

Speaker 4: 2:18

it feels like it, yeah, and when it was telling me christmas time, so I think yeah, it was two weeks ago yeah, right around Christmas time I shot out a tweet about the thief on the cross and you had responded to my tweet saying based in Maryville. So I said the thief on the cross was saved by the prayers of Mary and you responded based in Maryville. Now a little back story. What was the conference you were going to speak at? How long ago did they ask you to come on to this conference and when did things start getting a little tumultuous?

Speaker 2: 3:07

one of them is clear truth media. Now they got in touch with me. It must be four, five, maybe even six months ago. Now there's me, the organizers, some of the other people that they wanted to speak, and we sat around on a zoom call and they said, look, we want to have an event with you guys as part of the event, like they made it very clear from the beginning before there even was an event that they wanted me as part of this, and so they knew, knew who I was, they knew what my theology was.

Speaker 2: 3:29

And I mean anyone that invites me to any event that doesn't know what my theology is or who I am, I'd find that very strange. Like, why would you invite me in the first place? But I mean, it doesn't take much research. Just look at my bio, look at my Wikipedia, look at my personal webpage, look at my tweets. It's all self-explanatory. Anyway, they invited me to the Clear Truth Media event. All good, all done. And then I got invited by Joel Webben to the Trash World event. So basically, culture wars, spiritual wars, great.

Speaker 4: 3:59

Now, both of these are Christian events, right? They're both Protestant Christian events. Yeah, these are Christian events, right? They're both Protestant Christian events.

Speaker 2: 4:04

Yeah, now, I'm not a Reformed Protestant, but I'm happy to talk with anyone who wants to fight the spiritual wars that we're in. I talk with Eastern Orthodox Roman Catholics, anglicans, lutherans and even the other props all the time. I'm quite ecumenical in that way. Now Joel Webben came on my show and he talks about the Jews, which is something that I've avoided talking about for a long time. But he laid out the Christian stance on Israel and taught very Catholic theology that the church is the new Israel, the church is the spiritual Israel, and we went through that. And now, after that conversation, which we took a lot of flack for, joel called me up and said look, organizing event. Would you like to come and join our event? It's addressing the trash world. I was like that sounds good. He said what's your theology on this one, this, that and the other? So he checked, um, and so joel invited me to his conference.

Speaker 2: 5:00

Now, because of that and because a lot of people people hate Joel because he addresses the Jews, he addresses the topic of the Jews, which is just a taboo amongst Christians these days, he took a lot of stick for inviting me, so people were using me as a stick to beat Joel with because they say well, this guy's not a reformed Protestant, how dare you invite him? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they're digging out my tweets. Oh look, he's called calvin a heretic. I'm like, I haven't called john calvin a heretic. The church is called john calvin heretic.

Speaker 2: 5:31

I just affirmed what the church has taught for what? 500 years. Um, so it's not a new opinion, it's certainly not my opinion, it's just the church's teaching. Anyway, these reformed protestants and bear in mind, lots of Reformed Protestants are good people, but there are lots of also very it's quite a toxic, incestuous, infighting kind of corner of Christendom. So a lot of them were getting on Joel, using me to get on Joel, and then Clear Truth Media called me up and said look, I've got to seek your forgiveness. I'm like okay, what's this? And he said look, we made a mistake, we shouldn't have invited you to the conference. And I'm like so what are you saying?

Speaker 4: 6:10

and he said oh, what, we're gonna have to rescind the imitation now, this is before the tweet or after the tweet this is before your tweet this is before the tweet, so okay, so you were already dealing with getting canceled from one conference, right, because they were. They were using you as basically a cudgel against him because they really don't like his view. The thing is we're being accused of um anti-semitism misogyny. We're being used of a whole host of.

Speaker 1: 6:37

Let's be accurate. You're being accused of all that I'm being you are a presbyterian, though, aren't you Rob?

Speaker 4: 6:53

So it is amazing to me just how fractured the Protestant world is, and where the only thing they can really come to agreement on is that they hate Catholics. But okay, so you get canceled from this first conference, right?

Speaker 2: 7:03

So the Anglicans and theutherans that I deal with most often are not anti-catholic, but most of them would say they adhere to the catholic faith. Small c there's all that kind of nuanced stuff that we talk about, but there's an area of reformed protestants that their whole identity seems to be anti-catholic, which for me that's just anti-christ, because every christian should affirm the catholic faith, even from their own church's perspective, because if you don't, then you're not. You're saying you're not part of the church. If you're saying you're not part of the church, then you're just admitting that you're not saved, right. It doesn't make any sense to say you're anti-catholic.

Speaker 2: 7:35

In my in my opinion anyway, these reform plots were hyper fixated on on me, um so so bear mind, to a lot of your audience I'm probably quite Protestant because I'm old Catholic. I'm not Roman Catholic, but to them I'm massively Catholic and so they can't differentiate between me and you. So they were angry that I was going because I worship Mary and I'm a part of Babylon and all that. And so then you'd put your tweet out, which was clearly trolling, because this is what you do, you are the master troll. And I just replied in a jovial manner of yeah, that's based in Marypold because it is, and they take everything so to the letter seriously, and it's like the reason. I think there's a part of the reformed Catholic square that is probably very loosely Christian if at all Christian is because there's no joy at all. It's completely miserable, bitter, resentful, and we are a faith of joy. We can't be Christian without joy. So I question the legitimacy of their faith for that reason.

Speaker 4: 8:42

Okay, so obviously my tweet was a troll, right it's?

Speaker 1: 8:47

oh boy, here we go at the same time.

Speaker 4: 8:49

It was one of those things where I was thinking about and I'm like I do think about things before I say them where I'm like is this heresy? No, you don't, don't, don't know I just worry if it's heresy, right. So I'm is this heretical to say this and I'm like well, you know, we say Mary is the mediatrix of all graces.

Speaker 4: 9:09

Like we have some crazy beautiful titles for our lady, so I so I just said you know what? Let me say this now to your credit when I saw all the pressure coming down on you, you did not even waver for a second, like you doubled down on it. You said it again. I was actually blown away by how, because, look, you're asked to speak at this conference. I know it's the thing about the trash world thing, is it's not specifically a reformed conference?

Speaker 2: 9:38

right, Wasn't it really just?

Speaker 4: 9:40

it was just a conference to get you know how are we going to. It was just a conference to get you know how are we going to fight against, basically, the body of the devil in this current age that we're up against right, and that's why we can't, because we're so divided, especially in America and this is all new to me, bear in mind.

Speaker 2: 9:56

I come from England, which is a very, very different scene, and over here reformed Protestants are in the majority, but even within reformed Protestantism, they're so splintered and split and they hate each other. They hate each other more than they hate us. This is the thing, and so they can't. It's impossible for them to fight against the enemy when they're fighting against themselves. And so if they invite someone like myself, who's not really Protestant, not really Roman Catholic, like some weird gray space hidden in the cannons, like if they can't even get along with someone like myself, how are they going to get along with, you know, the rest of the church? It?

Speaker 4: 10:29

doesn't make sense. Yeah, it's just. Look, we're in a strange time, right Like. We just watched the end and Chris was right.

Speaker 2: 10:36

Your comment is ignorant and wrong. I am not a supporter of the Great Awakening, I'm not an intelligence asset. The Great Awakening I'm not an intelligence asset the greater way Intelligence asset. I do not affirm the Reformation. Like I'm glad you contributed to avoiding Babylon, Keep giving them your money. But if you're going to comment, at least get your facts right.

Speaker 4: 10:52

Here's the thing. It's such a strange time in the church, right? We just watched Mel Gibson go on Joe Rogan.

Speaker 2: 10:59

Mel.

Speaker 4: 11:00

Gibson goes on Joe Rogan and he spits out the Siri thesis of set of accountism. Yes, Mel Gibson goes on Joe Rogan and he spits out the Siri thesis of set of account is. Oh, yes, yes, he did, it's. It's such a bizarre time that I kind of have the position where, okay, I believe Francis is the Pope. I think that we're in a very confusing time in the church and when people come to a different conclusion than I do, I have a bit of mercy in that, because I'm like I don't even know if I'm 100 percent right. Like I don't think it's crazy to think the next pope could declare Francis an anti, but like it's just so bizarre when you have books coming out today of Francis's memoir and he's talking about people who love the traditional mass, have a mental disorder, and so for somebody to question why I'm having a conversation with Father Calvin Robinson, first off, when we had about 1200 subscribers and this guy was being asked to go on Fox News and all these. But he made time to come and have a conversation with us. I've rarely met anybody that as cordial and as gracious as Father Calvin Robinson. The to think I wouldn't ask him to come on when him and I are kind of at the center of this big fiasco going on. It's pretty absurd, Like if you guys can't understand why I'll sit and have a conversation with my friend, I don't know what to tell you.

Speaker 4: 12:16

So, Rob, do you have the clip? Let's? So? So so James White obsesses on my tweet and look, the guy's a bit of a boomer For Rob and I. You have to. I have been watching James White debate Catholics for 25 years. Okay, he has been like the Protestant pope in our eyes. You, you know. So for him to even acknowledge one of my tweets was like oh, okay, you know for that. For him to then turn it into this thing where he's discussing it on his show. Look, there's a little bit of fanboying going on, guys. I have the protestant pope discussing my tweet, but then he brings it into his Sunday sermon.

Speaker 2: 13:05

That was crazy. That was insane. So, first and foremost, the obsession has been weird. He's massively obsessed with you in particular and your tweet, but also dragging me into the bubble For over two weeks like day after day, video tweet, video tweet. I'm like this is a little creepy. Like if you've got a restraining order against him, I wouldn't be surprised. I was tempted to get one myself and then to take it to the next level of seeing him at the pulpit. Now I'm hoping that wasn't a. I mean, did he even have services in his? I don't even know what he does in his tradition, but I'm hoping it wasn't an actual church congregation present, that present that he was just recording it using the camera in his church.

Speaker 4: 13:47

I don't know what the situation was, but it did appear as though he had an audience before him. But, like you said, you don't see the audience, it just and anthony he was dressed like me, but with a.

Speaker 2: 13:54

It's like he wanted to look like a catholic priest but didn't want to wear a collar, so he's got this black turtleneck under his black business suit with a pectoral pe.

Speaker 4: 14:03

A pectoral cross is so bizarre. It's a bishop's cross. It's so bizarre he's like, but so and I can only think he looks like the white shaft.

Speaker 2: 14:12

I do.

Speaker 4: 14:14

It was just such a bizarre thing.

Speaker 1: 14:17

So he, just just so you know, he did tweet out that that was a sermon.

Speaker 4: 14:22

Yeah, it was an hour and a half sermon. It was on his Apologia channel, so okay, so now.

Speaker 2: 14:31

I've just You're all 53. With the greatest mistake that might be when he called Anthony a young man. He's just got a hard life, don't be rude.

Speaker 4: 14:39

Kyle, I don't know how you count in the Navy, but so, look, we're going to discuss this whole thing and then I have to ask father I have to because you came on with us for a few minutes on election night yeah, which was pretty awesome that because I know you were actually with like, where are you at Like with Trump on election?

Speaker 2: 14:59

night. Yeah, it was amazing. I'm going back there this weekend going to the inauguration.

Speaker 4: 15:08

I can't wait for that. Yeah, this is, this is I have. I want to get into just your whole experience in america, but we have to, you know, get through this stuff. It's just been such an interesting um like just that I'm embroiled in the middle of this from some stupid tweet, but I saw so many protestants even reacting to it, saying imagine, your pastor brought a Twitter beef to the Sunday pulpit, like it's a. It's such a bizarre thing because we hear constantly um, you know, we preach Jesus. Like you're not preaching Jesus, you're preaching Anthony's Twitter. This is bizarre.

Speaker 2: 15:38

So either he thinks that you're Jesus, or he thinks that he's Jesus.

Speaker 1: 15:41

I know what Anthony thinks. Believe me, I know what.

Speaker 2: 15:44

Anthony thinks, but it is insane. I tweeted about it, but I've never, ever mentioned a tweet in my sermons. Why would I? I'm exegeting the scriptures, I'm preaching the good news. That's the job of the priest at the pulpit during a service, and whether you have a mass or no mass, whatever kind of service you have, it's not about you. It's not about your beef with people online. That's so uncouth. Who cares? Well? Who cares who you are? Who cares who james white is? We're here to hear about jesus christ, our lord and savior it's.

Speaker 4: 16:15

He has set himself up to be just so anti-catholic, like he's not really preaching christianity or even and I also want to get into just the different understandings, because I'm hoping some Protestants do check this out just to see it but just the difference in how we understand the church, in that, to me what it seems like is they see the church, they see salvation as a very singular thing between them and God and it's all about Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior, and they don't really seem to grasp it. This is what I found out with them.

Speaker 2: 16:53

So as Catholics the church teachers, once you are baptized, you are adopted sons and daughters of God. You are brothers and sisters in Christ, right? So you would recognize my baptism, I'd recognize your baptism, we'd both recognize James White's baptism and the rest of the Reformed Protestants, but it turns out that they don't necessarily recognize ours. So some of them were tweeting throughout this not necessarily around the James White video, but around me, going to these events that I'm not saved and actually, worse than that, I'm damned to hell because I subscribe to Catholic theology. How does that make any sense? And who are they to damn anyone to hell?

Speaker 4: 17:28

it, there's, there's. Look it's. Once saved, always saved. If you give your life to jesus and accept him as your personal lord and savior, you can't lose your salvation, unless you're catholic.

Speaker 2: 17:37

That's the only thing that can make you even catholics have faith, but their faith isn't good enough because they're catholic. It's insane.

Speaker 4: 17:44

Yeah, it's look so even what you were saying how our baptism brings us into the family of God. You receive divine adoption and you become part of the family of God. So they don't seem to understand what we view the church as where the church is, the church triumphant, the church suffering and the church on earth. And the idea that God, the Father, wants you to know your elder siblings right Now. The way you get to know your elder siblings is by learning about them, and God grants little favors when you get to know your older siblings, because they'll have a statue to Thomas Jefferson, they'll have holidays to George Washington, they'll have President's Day and they'll have feast days for their secular heroes. But then they cast off our religious heroes, the heroes of the Christian faith, as if it's idolatry.

Speaker 4: 18:39

It's just such a bizarre thing to me to not grasp what we're doing in Catholicism. We are we are human beings, are very ritualistic. Whether we go to a baseball game, I see people collecting dirt when they go to Citi Field because they are obsessed with the. It's like that's a secular sacramental, you know, and what we're doing is yeah, we have holy water and we have a devotion to the saints, so that we do know the heroes of the faith, the people that came before us, the giant shoulders that we're standing on, and they are our family and they are very much still alive. So it's a very different way of viewing the church. It's a very different way of viewing the family of God, like we're baptized in God's name. At baptism we receive the father's name. We come around the Father's table once a week to make sure we're communing with our brothers and sisters and offering the sacrifice to the Father. It's just a very different way to see Christianity.

Speaker 2: 19:34

So when they say things like Mary is just a sinner, it just perplexes me because in a way, it is of the devil, it is of Satan, because we know that satan hates our lady and these people despise our lady. It's not. It's not a case of look, we don't venerate her like you guys do, or we don't honor, adore her. We don't. It's we. They despise her and we know this through their language. What was one of the tweets I retweeted recently? Uh, oh, your, your mary is can't hear your prayers because she's currently relieving herself.

Speaker 4: 20:04

It's like how dare you dishonor the mother of our Lord and say how dare you To the point that this is whatever they worship, whatever their faith is, it is clearly of the devil I think it comes down to especially a lack of meditating on the incarnation itself, like, if you're thinking about what the incarnation is, it's the God who created everything. The God who is existence itself is coming into the world and you think the woman he chose to come into the world like you, don't think you. You get on your knees and say, oh, holy woman. Like it is such an amazing event that anyone connected to it should be revered.

Speaker 2: 20:47

Well, especially people who say the Scriptures are paramount, because it's said in the Scriptures that every generation shall call her blessed. So rather than doing that, they'd rather say she's relieving herself or whatever.

Speaker 4: 20:59

But even the idea that she's just a sinner, she's my sister in Christ to me, especially when I hear Protestant women say it. It's so offensive to me because it makes me think they are prideful enough to think that they could raise the Son of God. Like they could be the mother of God. Like you don't think God, who could create his own mother, would create something spectacularly special.

Speaker 2: 21:25

Well, she says the example that we're striving towards. She becomes the tabernacle. We are called to be vessels of the Holy Spirit through our baptism. She really and presently received Christ in her, and we are called, as Christians, to really and presently receive Christ through the sacrament, the most blessed sacrament, at the altar. We are modeling what she put into best practice. We are striving towards her holiness, because she directs us back towards her son.

Speaker 4: 21:51

Yeah, see, now. Now people wondering why we can have this conversation is because father Calvin and I may have a difference in ecclesiology, which I think that probably is our only heck Like. I have never heard you say anything other than the Francis stuff that I disagree with you on. So that's why I think there's a very big difference in, and I even see it with the Orthodox this way. It's a very different conversation with the Orthodox than it is with an evangelical Protestant, and evangelical is kind of like the lowest IQ version of Christianity that exists, because they're not even going back to the points of contention of the Reformation. They're picking up their Bible in the 20th century and spewing out doctrines that are maybe 100 years old, if that and they claim to be the real Christian. It's just bizarre to me.

Speaker 2: 22:39

It's tiresome because we hear the same old heresies that have been around for over a thousand years. It always goes back to Nestorianism, doesn't it? This is why we hear the same old heresies that have been around for over a thousand years. It always go back, goes back to Nestorianism, doesn't it? This is why we have the title of Theotokos, so we defend Our Lady's title, because that defends the title and the divinity of our Lord and Savior. That he isn't like two separate people. It comes back to some form of Protestantism is actually atheism. It's that. Oh, jesus is just a nice guy. That's what it essentially comes back down to.

Speaker 4: 23:04

When we interviewed Tom Holland, tom Holland wrote Dominion and he made a comment when he was speaking with Bishop Barrett and he goes. You know, I think you as Catholics would all agree that the natural end of Protestantism is atheism. I just love that quote because as soon as you start rejecting the authority of the church to, to, to set, to set what the parameters are for Christianity, you are, you're rejecting the authority of God at that point, and then you kind of just you, you make. You make Jesus in your own image instead of you being in God's image. So, um, all right, rob, let's get to this clip, because if anybody has not seen this clip, which it has gone, made the rounds. When I watched this, I was beside myself. I could not believe it, so let's hit it.

Speaker 3: 23:51

So, anyway, there is a young man named Anthony on Twitter and I've run into him before. He's a Roman Catholic and what he likes to do is he likes to throw out statements, a single short sentence statement that is just so wild that it gets a tremendous amount of engagement, Evidently, I guess now on Twitter I'm not sure how this works because I have not monetized my account If you get people to retweet your stuff who have lots of followers.

Speaker 4: 24:23

Do you have to worry about copyright on this?

Speaker 3: 24:25

And I guess there are people making thousands and thousands of dollars a month.

Speaker 4: 24:29

Yeah, it is.

Speaker 1: 24:30

That's where I pulled it from Okay.

Speaker 4: 24:32

I just don't feel comfortable doing that, so we're not doing that. Because I don't want to get the stream pulled again. So we got the stream pulled when we did the Joe Rogan stuff because we left it playing too long. So the funny thing is he sets up exactly what I do, right, like he said, he throws out a wild comment and gets a big reaction. It's bait.

Speaker 2: 24:58

And he has taken the bait for a month straight now and just continuously taken this bait and it's bizarre to me, but I don't think it's in good faith. I don't think it's. I don't think he seriously has an issue with your theology. I don't think he's trying to debate you. He's just trying to make money off of your baiting, off of your trolling. He's making content. That's what he's doing, and then he has the audacity to call you out for making content. All these people make money off their Twitter. What is your YouTube channel? What is your store on your website? What is your donate button? Good sir, site.

Speaker 4: 25:26

What is your donate button? Good sir, yeah, and the the past uh, uh, two weeks, especially when we've had our uh leftist catholic coming after us, it made me realize how grateful I am that I'm not a professional catholic, because even if we get kicked off that that conference, it's like okay, I'm a construction worker, I'm not I have a free weekend yes, yeah, I get to actually spend the weekend with my family like it.

Speaker 4: 25:44

Really, I would feel bad for the conference organizers because they, you know, and I would feel bad for anybody that bought tickets thinking I was going. So what I actually told him today was I said, hey, look, if they do decide to kick us off, don't worry, I won't speak, I'll still come, I'll just be an attendee, I'll still promote it. It'll be as if, because most of the people that are going for us aren't going to hear my 25 minute talk, anyway, they want to come in.

Speaker 4: 26:14

They hear you talk all the time. Yeah, I mean, you guys hear me exactly. So he, he, um, he asked me today. He said um, you know, I do have to make sure you're not going to say anything.

Speaker 1: 26:21

I'm like do you think I'm'm gonna go up and I'm gonna give a talk about our lady and I'm gonna, like it's gonna be? I should honestly start my talk be like in 1945, the ross.

Speaker 4: 26:35

Like I'm going to give a talk at a men's conference. I'm and there's not gonna be any women there I'm gonna talk to men about spiritual fatherhood and some lessons I've learned throughout my life. Things like that. Like what do you think? Like the crazy thing about? Like people who think they have the moral high ground is there's no low they won't go to because they think they have this moral high ground.

Speaker 4: 26:58

The things that this guy had said about me were just blatant lies, saying that I'm associated with the groipers, and like just out and out lies. Like the man is willing to risk damnation for lying to make me look bad because he thinks he's saving the souls of the young men. I'm going to speak. It's such a preposterous thing. I mean it's completely absurd, and I think James White is doing something similar here. He thinks he is up on this moral high ground and he's preventing worship and idolatry, and it's like you're not even presenting the Catholic position at all. Like for what it is. It's a straw man argument. You know, I didn't actually mean where. You know the good, the good thief. First of all, st Dismas. St Dismas was not saved by the prayers of Mary directly, in the sense that she's the mediatrix of all graces, maybe, but he knows what I was doing and he still played into it.

Speaker 2: 27:50

And there is an argument to that. You sent me a great little….

Speaker 4: 27:53

St Peter, Damien Rob, I said let's pull it out.

Speaker 2: 27:56

So the fathers have had this conversation. People have worked through this conversation. St Peter Damien was talking about this before the Great Schism.

Speaker 4: 28:04

For goodness sake, Well, somebody had said to me this is a completely baseless statement, not grounded anywhere in Scripture. And I said where was Our Lady at the time? The good thief was crucified, she was at the foot of his cross. Not baseless, it's not completely absurd?

Speaker 2: 28:22

I mean ultimately. Of course, it's by the grace of God Christ decided in his goodwill to save the thief. But who's to say whether our lady wasn't praying at the foot of the cross or not? Who's to say her intercessions didn't hold any weight? Who knows?

Speaker 4: 28:34

It's a theory as good as any other theory, and it was just a theory, it was just me, it wasn't like I said. This is church teaching this isn't doctrine.

Speaker 1: 28:46

I was just like. I've never met a man that can go off just half cocked as often as you do and still be right every time, like you don't know what you're talking about and yet somehow you channel St Augustine right out of your mouth.

Speaker 2: 29:07

The gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Speaker 4: 29:09

The gift of tongues. Rob, I don't know what you're talking about. Wait, let's bring that St Peter Damian quote up. I want to actually read that, because it's actually when I read that I was like, even in my frustration and my trolling, the grace of Our Lady shines through right. So St Peter Damian attests that by the prayers of Mary, who stood between the cross of the good thief and that of her son, the thief was converted and saved, and thereby she repaid a former service, for, as other authors also relate, this thief had been kind to Jesus and Mary on their journey to Egypt. And this same office, the Blessed Virgin, has ever continued and still continues to perform. Now, rob, is that from the Proto-Evangelium, that story where St Thysmus gets baptized?

Speaker 1: 29:48

I don't know if it's from the Proto, it's St Peter Damian saying it. It's got to be pretty early in the church, right? Because I was thinking maybe that story comes from Mary of Agreda, or like Anne Catherine Emmerich, but if it's coming from St Peter Damien, then it might be, might be an earlier tradition, like the Proto-Evangelium yeah, alright.

Speaker 4: 30:13

So let's get to the rest of the James White clip and where he starts to get into Father Calvin Anthony blames Mary for his trolling no, I ask for mercy for when I'm wrong.

Speaker 3: 30:30

There is a young man named Anthony on Twitter and I've run into him before he's a Roman Catholic. That is just so wild that it gets a tremendous amount of engagement and evidently, I guess now on Twitter I'm not sure how this works because I have not monetized my account More money and I guess there are people making thousands and thousands of dollars a month on Twitter now.

Speaker 4: 30:53

Wow, that's ridiculous. There are, but not me.

Speaker 3: 30:57

But anyway, he throws out this statement. Ready, this is where it all ties together. Ready, this is where it all ties together. He throws out the statement the thief on the cross was saved through the prayers of Mary. The thief on the cross was saved through the prayers of Mary. Now, I had never heard anyone make that statement. It didn't massively shock me. Um, because you know, I've learned a lot about marion dogma in roman catholicism. I'll be reading you a couple prayers here. They'll give you an idea before we wrap up the other thing he reads from the glories of Mary during his sermon the whole irony of this entire thing is that Mary may actually help save James White.

Speaker 4: 31:55

It's it's it's, it's. It's so amazing to me that he's. Whatever happened on on twitter between you and I, and our exchange got james white to read the glories of mary to his congregation it is certainly maryville, oh man, um, let me wait before we even get back into it. What was his contention with this conference? Wasn't somebody on his team removed from the conference also?

Speaker 2: 32:30

Oh, I actually don't know. All I know is that. So I went out to Moscow, which is where Pastor Doug Wilson is and his whole church, and I spent some time with them, fired a flametamethrower, had some good fun. Uh, had a few nice theological debates. Actually we had a really good conversation about the reformation. Um, that wasn't filmed, but we, we got on. We disagreed, but we got on. Now I left and there was no problem with me having been there. They're all reformed and that kind of stuff, but no problem. But then when joel invites me to his all the reformed guys started kicking off. So there was the whole thing of well, why is it okay for Doug Wilson to host him but not Joel Webben? And again, there's back and forth between all of them, and I don't know if James White is a fan of Doug Wilson or not, but he's certainly not a fan of Joel Webben.

Speaker 4: 33:19

So yeah, all right, we'll finish the clip, because then I want to get into, because there was an exchange between you and the conference where the head of the conference was like, well, I'm not backing down to pressure. Nobody contacted me behind the scenes. I was like, no, no, no, they did it right out in the open. They pressured you and you buckled under the pressure and it's. I will say this to the North Carolina dioceses what is it?

Speaker 4: 33:52

The diocese of Charlotte and the diocese of Charleston, the two of them who are standing by their decision to have us speak. Like it is so refreshing when people don't buckle to a couple of voices in our case, one voice. Um, it's refreshing when people stand their ground and say, okay, look, we made this decision, we're gonna stick with it. So, all right, do you have to do? We have to start that clip over, I hope not no but still I had actually never heard.

Speaker 3: 34:21

Even in talking with Roman Catholics, even debating the subject, I had never heard anyone say that the thief on the cross was saved through the prayers of Mary. There's nothing in the New Testament that even suggests such a thing. There's nothing in the early church. I had never read anything and I had to read. I didn't bring it with me, but there's a book called the Glories of Mary by Alphonsus de Liguri, a doctor of the Roman Catholic Church. Over 800 editions of the book and I had to read that entire thing in writing. Mary Another Redeemer. It was one of the most spiritually oppressive things I've ever done.

Speaker 4: 34:53

Oh, stop it, it's unbelievable.

Speaker 3: 34:55

It's horrific and I didn't.

Speaker 1: 34:59

Watching him say this exact same thing four times is the most spiritually it has been everything yeah, my problem with him is it's always I.

Speaker 2: 35:08

I didn't know, I had not heard this before, I hadn't read that who cares? Like it's yeah, does the church teach this or does it not? And this is my fundamental problem with with mainstream protestantism is because it's I. It's what I think, what I believe, what I interpret it should always be what the church teaches. We can disagree on who the church is, what the church is or how it teaches it, but we should be always saying the church teaches X, y or Z One of the funniest things I saw today was Protestants up in arms because Russell Brand came out and said we need to find a new way to read the Bible.

Speaker 4: 35:38

And they're like you can't find a new way to read them. I'm like wait a minute, what do you mean? You can't find a new way to read the Bible? It's like they'll say if you can't find your traditions in the Bible, then your traditions are man-made. It's like no, if your traditions don't pop up until 1600 years later, your traditions are man-made. I mean to break from the traditions of what our ancestors did. I think that's part of why so many of us love. I want to ask you this too, father.

Speaker 2: 36:11

What liturgical calendar do you follow? I'm struggling with this at the moment. So the church that I've just been assigned to follows the traditional calendar. I've usually followed the more up-to-date calendar, so I'm actually following both my tweets and stuff. You know, I tweet every day. Whenever there's a feast or a memorial, I tweet about it. I follow the modern universal calendar, but in church we follow the old. So, for example, this week, as we are talking, we've just had the celebration of the. Holy Family in church, but I tweeted about baptism of the Lord.

Speaker 4: 36:42

Yeah, it's such an interesting time because I have both calendars too, right, Because there are some like Padre Pio's feast is on the new calendar, it's not on the old calendar. It's a strange time, but yeah, I was curious about that. All right, let's finish this out. And where he finally gets to father.

Speaker 3: 36:58

Even remember, in Liguri, ever having heard anyone say something like that. And so it's again. It's a short one-sentence thing you throw out there and what I see is Calvin Robinson retweeting it with the comment. I don't remember which came first. It was either Mary Pilled period based or based.

Speaker 1: 37:27

Mary Pilled. Such a boomer, no one would say Mary Pilled based.

Speaker 3: 37:30

They can't actually speak English on Twitter.

Speaker 2: 37:32

That's racist.

Speaker 3: 37:33

Throw all this weird stuff in there just to prove how cool you are. It's ironic, you said the Englishman can't speak English.

Speaker 2: 37:41

I speak the King's English. Thank you very much, much I think he's being so disingenuous there too.

Speaker 4: 37:45

Like I think he knows, it's based in maryville. He's just pretending it's all this assault.

Speaker 2: 37:49

I don't know because he said I retweeted it and I didn't retweet it. I just replied to that protestia screenshot of your. It wasn't even your tweet I applied to. It's a screenshot of a tweet. He's kind of overblowing it on purpose.

Speaker 4: 38:00

Yeah, yeah, you didn't even quote tweeted. It wasn't like you tried to spread this thing, you just thought you. Here's what happened I tweeted something that was pretty easy to rile protestants up and you added a little bit of a little bit of fuel to the book I saw I was just having fun.

Speaker 4: 38:17

I was like that's typical anthony and I think a lot, of, a lot of people don't have fun on that site and it's like, if you're not going to have fun, why are you on there? Because if you're just on there to get angry and enraged and stuff, why are you giving your life over to anger?

Speaker 2: 38:35

It just seems like an angry little old, bitter man. It's like he needs to find the faith of joy in jesus christ. Where is that? And people, I don't know people are probably going to hate us for this show, because there are people who've, you know, known him for years and loved his work and stuff. But I only know him from what I've seen recently and I've actually blocked him before all of this, which makes it worse because he's hunting down my tweets every day even though he's blocked. But I've only seen this nasty, resentful, bitter old man. I haven't seen the, the esteemed theologian that people talk about, and I think you know sometimes people, when they put themselves on a pedestal, they fall off of it yeah, so okay.

Speaker 4: 39:12

So now the fallout comes and, like I said, I saw, uh, the organizer trying to defend his decision to then cancel you from now. Did he call you and have a conversation with you, or was it just online?

Speaker 2: 39:25

yeah, no, he called me and I said look you're. Because he was going on about how he's sorry that he's gonna have to rescind my invitation and but he was treading on eggshells. You know, he's just being very liberal and I was like your company is called clear truth media. Just give me the clear truth. What's happening here? And he said, yeah, there have been some tweets back and forth that I've been sent. I'm not really on Twitter myself, but I've been sent these things. I'm like, well, I don't see what the problem is.

Speaker 2: 39:50

If you're going to cancel someone over a tweet that someone else has disliked and they're putting pressure on you, that comes across as weak and feeble, disappointed. You knew who I was when you invited me. You knew what my theology was when you invited me. Don't invite me if you're going to mess me around. I'm happy to come and give my time. I hadn't requested an honorarium or a fee or anything. I'm here to charitably give my time to you to help your conference, because I believe in the thing that you said it was about. So I'm just disappointed.

Speaker 4: 40:18

It's interesting because the whole attempt to get you canceled was organized by James White. Like there's no way around that. He is the one, like he has been repeatedly for weeks. He just kept pressing and pressing, similar to what Rob and I are dealing with right now. It's one person just pressing and pressing and trying to get us canceled from this thing. And now do you think if he hadn't canceled you, do you think you would have been received warmly after all the commotion was caused, or do you think you might have got a little pushback and booed or anything at the conference?

Speaker 2: 40:48

I think it would have been warmly. Again, we're talking. The people who are there were from different denominations, but we're all talking about the same stuff. You know, the fight against liberalism, the fight against satanic forces that are taking over the West. How do we, as Christians, come together to battle that? And we can all get behind that, and I think everyone would have been supportive.

Speaker 2: 41:08

I've only been, I've only got in trouble at one event, and Rob and I were talking about this beforehand, because it was in Charleston in South Carolina, and I was invited to an Anglican event and I always thought the Anglicans out here were sound. I thought they were very orthodox in their theology because that's how I'd engaged with them previously. But when I came to this event I mentioned because I was talking about lots of different critical theories and I mentioned that a man can no more become a mother than a woman can become a priest. They took issue with that. I was like whoa, this is strange. We all know that women can't become priests, that's just basic Right. But in some of their dioceses they could. And so, as I was quoting the scriptures, as I was quoting St Paul, we had lady vicars walking out and the types of men that want to please appease those liberal men walking out as I was quoting from the scriptures. For goodness sake, the people who say sola scriptura or whatever, it's just when was?

Speaker 4: 42:07

when was the first time you rose to public prominence? Because I remember you popping up. Um, it was. I think it was a speech you gave at right oh man, I forget where it was, but I just remember being. That was the only way. So there were people in america or in other countries know me because of the oxford union, but oh man.

Speaker 2: 42:22

I forget where it was, but I just remember being blown away. So people in America or in other countries know me because of the Oxford Union. But I'd already had a profile in the UK which is why I got invited to the Oxford Union. But the Oxford Union is like the pinnacle of debate. It doesn't get higher than that. I was way, it was way above my station.

Speaker 2: 42:39

I was a newly ordained deacon. Yes, I'd done some TV and radio and newspaper work, but I wasn't like I'm not a published theologian or anything. But I was against three bishops from the established state church, the Church of England, and they were arguing that the church should embrace gay marriage and I was like this is an impossibility. Same-sex marriage is not marriage. Marriage is an indissoluble, lifelong union between one man and one woman. And on the day I got blasted, you know I lost that debate massively. But then it gets uploaded online and now over like five million people around the world have seen it and people are taking things from it because it's quoted from the scriptures, the book of common prayer and the catechism of the catholic faith. Like I didn't to invent anything, I just said the church teaches X, Y, Z Again. That's all we should be doing as Christians.

Speaker 4: 43:26

Now, has your theology deepened towards the Catholic point of view over the last couple of years? Because I don't remember you ever being so boldly Catholic and talking about what the church teaches so much early on. But I don't know if that's just because those conversations didn't go there yet or because I know the guys from mass of the ages reached out to you and they they were sending you stuff about the, the, the Roman missile and like. Has, as your, as your theology become more, or do you think you've always kind of had this and it's just worked its way out like this?

Speaker 2: 44:03

that's a good question. I've always okay. I came up through the catholic end of the church of england, so bear in mind there was an oxford movement that tried to realign the church of england with its historic catholicity and and bring and bring back the old traditions and the old rites and rituals and stuff a couple hundred years ago, right, and so the the arm of the church that I came up in was very Catholic, but for an English setting it was more Catholic than the Roman Catholics. For example, I've never experienced female altar servers. I've never had to stand to receive or received on the hands. You know we have altar rails. We receive kneeling on the tongue, eastward facing. All of the traditions of the mass were kept intact in that corner of the church. So to me I always came up thinking, well, yeah, we're Catholic.

Speaker 2: 44:48

But then, having broadened that and speaking to other people of different traditions and stuff, I've realized that it's not always as black and white as that. And obviously I got ordained through the old Catholics so it meant that my orders and my sacraments were valid and recognized by everyone. But I suppose over the last few years my theology has, I mean, developed somewhat. It probably has become more Catholic, and it's not because of Roman Catholics, it's actually more because of Protestants. The more I see of Protestantism, the more I think actually that doesn't work. Yeah, more I see of protestantism, the more I think actually that doesn't work. Yeah, that we need a direct authority that we can call on and rely on, and there's only one solution for that yeah, there's only one fight to truly be right like um, because I I'll.

Speaker 4: 45:36

I do find some of the um, uh, the aesthetics and the practices of the East. I find them beautiful. But there was only one church that received the great commission and took it and ran with it and actually converted the world, and that was. That was the Latin church.

Speaker 2: 45:51

So I push back for our Eastern Orthodox brethren because I'd say that that's the Eastern tradition, like their rights and rituals and masses. That's the Eastern tradition and some of them exist.

Speaker 4: 46:06

And there are, there are Eastern Catholicsolics. I mean, I have, I have. I have a friend who I fight with all the time because he makes the sign of the cross backwards. Um, but he but the, the. It was the roman catholic church that went and converted all nations well, there was just one church.

Speaker 2: 46:18

It was just one church. So right, so.

Speaker 4: 46:22

But there's only one place to have that last battle and try to reunify, like there's. I even heard you say that. I forget who you were talking to. Oh, you were talking to redeemed zoomer you were talking to redeemed zoomer and you uh he, because he's an interesting kid, I I like him a lot, I think he's uh, I think he's, he's like the version of you.

Speaker 2: 46:44

What's that? You're the protestant version of you yeah, he's not, he's.

Speaker 4: 46:47

He's not as fiery as I am, but I do like him. He's a fellow new yorker, um, we've had him on here, but you had a really interesting conversation with him because he kept pressing you on, like um, on the sacraments and protestantism and all this stuff, and you were just like no, there's only one church that you really could bring unity once again, like you really do. Look, I know things are a mess under the current hierarchy in the current pontificate, but I do think that that's going to not be the case forever, like that's just, it's not always going to be the case and it's going to bobby, I'll kill you the east and the west, the two lungs of the church as they were referred to, will become one again.

Speaker 2: 47:30

Eastern orthodoxy, roman catholicism, will become one again, and I think there's probably room for anglicanism to work into that as well and come under that fold. But I think the rest of of the christian world, uh, what I would call Protestantism, is going to fall apart. It just continues to split and splinter and split and splinter until it will no longer exist because it's not rooted in an authority that is static, and so I don't even think it's a problem. You know, the problem I have with Roman Catholicism is the Catholics will say submit to Rome, submit to Rome, as if that's ever going to work on anyone. But I don't think anyone needs, I don't think Protestantism needs, to submit to Rome. I think Protestantism will die anyway on its own, given enough time.

Speaker 4: 48:08

It's such a shallow theology though it's not even a religion in the proper sense, right? So if you look back to even paganism, like even their understanding of paganism, when they accuse us of like Mary, like are, like you're worshiping ishtar, it's like you guys really don't understand what paganism was, that when you had a demon or a goddess, you had to offer sacrifice, and that usually took the form of some kind of cult worship that involved sex cults or things like that. The idea that m Mary is a demon goddess but she wants you to love with the same spirit of Christ. There's no possible way to reconcile that. She would require her own worship and the idea that Christ ascends to heaven and promises the kingdom and in its place comes a pagan cult is so insane.

Speaker 2: 49:05

Well, it's pharisaical, it's scriptural. You know it was the Pharisees, wasn't it? They said he's healing in the name of the demons. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 49:13

Yeah, the idea that a pagan cult took the place of the kingdom of heaven and Constantine tricked everybody into becoming pagan, and then the body of the devil spreads throughout the world instead of the kingdom of god and it's just.

Speaker 2: 49:27

The devil is spreading and it's called islam, and it's spreading rapidly. Unless christians get their acts together, it's going to take over a lot of our, a lot of our land yeah, it's, it's.

Speaker 4: 49:37

It's not just islam, though. The body of the devil is basically any anyone that is not part of the body of christ. Right, it's. It's not just Islam, though. The body of the devil is basically any anyone that is not part of the body of Christ. Right, it's, it's. And there's some overlap. There's some people who identify as if I mean, you have guys like Joe Biden who says he's a Catholic, he's baptized, but he lives, completely contrary to the ways of the face of this, some kind of overlap with the body of the devil and the body of Christ, and it's. There's going to have to be some kind of a there's gotta be an act of God to fix all this.

Speaker 4: 50:09

It's so messy. At this point, we see the things that we're seeing in in in the hierarchy. It's. It's very depressing. You see McElroy going to Washington and it does. It does get. You do kind of get defeated at times with it, but I just constantly tell myself, like Christ promised us, he would not let the gates of hell prevail, and it's kind of one of those times where he's sleeping in the boat and everybody's panicking and it's like, oh ye, of little faith, you know.

Speaker 2: 50:37

Yeah, that is good, but there does need to be strong leadership. There does need to be a strong Pope who can say actually, joe Biden, nancy Pelosi, you are excommunicated, you know, defiant. Through your actions, you are not in good standing with the church. There needs to be a Pope that can say Father James Martin, you are no longer a priest because you're not in line with the church's teaching. That's what. If you want to win souls, that's what people need to see Someone leading in truth, not this wishy-washy. Let's invite some trannies over to the Vatican, like at the same time as saying things like you know, abortion is on the same level as not allowing illegal immigration. It's like stop all of that, get out of the office. You're not suited. Get someone in who can do the job.

Speaker 4: 51:21

Yeah, look, I mean especially what we see like when you see anyone stand up. It's why your star took off, because people saw you stand up and you didn't buckle when you had a little bit of pressure put on you. Like, young men want to follow a leader, someone who is strong, and they'll get behind you and they'll march in lockstep with you. They want to follow someone who, someone who is strong, and they'll get behind you and they'll march in lockstep with you. They want to follow someone who's willing to stand up to it. This whole idea of catering to women in the church right now I think the feminization of the church is the biggest crisis we're actually facing right now. This idea that we need to have women in bigger positions of authority, you need to have altar girls and all these things. What you're doing is you're driving young men away, and there's a reason Christ chose 12 men to start the church and, yes, women played a role, but it was 12 men who went out and converted the world. It's because you have to attract other men, because, unfortunately, the patriarchy is divine, like God, and God divine, it is what it is God, you know, all fatherhood on heaven and earth is named after him and we have this task before us as men.

Speaker 4: 52:36

It's a lot of people think it's like this isn't a red pill thing to say, it's not like, oh, men are no the responsibility that we have as men to lead and to actually lead the men younger than us to especially like young men don't have mentors now, they don't have good leadership, so they're looking at people like Andrew Tate, they're looking to people who are going to give them material ends that will leave them empty and unsatisfied, and something needs to be done. I don't know how it gets fixed, but I think that's why all these young men are attracted to orthodoxy. They're attracted to the Latin mass. Francis says that there's a mental problem with a young priest that wants that. No, I think the mental problem comes in when you see the disaster that came after the council, you see the disaster that came after changing the liturgy and you don't go wait a minute, something happened here. Let's do a little bit of an about face and change some of those mistakes.

Speaker 2: 53:34

Yeah, they're doubling down instead. It's a grave, grave shame. I mean, there are two sides to this. I do think the Latin mass is the most beautiful example of faith and worship, and there's so much truth there that to suppress it seems to me anti-Christ. If you see truth, beauty, goodness, as something that's always been true, always been beautiful, always been good and recognized everywhere as such, to suddenly suppress it seems to be going against the faith somehow. I'll leave that to people to speculate on how. But at the same time I do see that within the Latin mass community there is a bit of a victimhood complex because they are oppressed. But they feel that oppression and they're acting it out in much the same way I saw with Black Lives Matter and with the Trannies and with you know, any group of people that feel like they're oppressed. They act it out in a way that there's a sense of entitlement and then it becomes bitterness and resentment and actually and don't get me wrong again I love the Latin no.

Speaker 4: 54:31

I love hearing this. This is actually really important, because our audience is who you're talking to. Is that audience right now, right? So it like there's an element of pick up your cross in this, so I want you to go on.

Speaker 2: 54:43

Because a lot of them can become like those reformed Protestants with no joy whatsoever. You know, you've lost the faith when you've lost the joy and actually it can become Protestantism. It can become through the channel of significantism. It becomes exactly the same as Protestantism. Really true, I think people who are adhering to the TLM are doing a good thing, but they've got to step that fine line and I think eventually the church will work itself out and the extraordinary reform may eventually become ordinary again. Who knows where it's, you know, god's permitting this for a reason. We can't second guess it, but something will come of it.

Speaker 4: 55:17

Yeah, that's always been the story of salvation history. Right, the story of salvation history is we killed God and that actually is the thing that saves us the things that we don't. You never see God in the moment. You only see him in hindsight. Right, you go through some tumultuous period in your life and you think all is lost and then when you look back on that period, you're like, oh, my goodness, this is actually the thing God was doing to save me. And I think that's what we're going through in, especially these liturgy wars and the liturgical calendar and all that stuff. If we can suffer through this patiently with joy, it's the most important thing we actually can do, thing we actually can do. It's honestly the reason Rob and I started doing this channel because we wanted to make people laugh a little bit, bring sense of community and not just focus on every negative thing, have a conversation where people can laugh a little bit. If we don't have God's spirit in us, what the hell is the purpose of this thing?

Speaker 2: 56:17

This is all of our calling. The whole purpose of God's chosen people was to be a light to the nations right, and the Jewish people at the time failed. So God had to come to earth himself as man fully God, yet fully man to show us how to be that light, how to lead people towards himself. And that's through suffering. Well, suffering with finding the joy in suffering. And we live in a world now where people don't want to suffer. They'll avoid it at all costs and they have no resilience. And our job as Christians is to continue through that suffering, like you said, but find the joy in it. And it's the hardest thing in the world, but that's what all of us are called to do as Christians.

Speaker 4: 56:52

Yeah Well, I think that we'll end up in the long run. You're being chiseled by God right now, right Like you're, you're suffering through the fire that Paul talks about in Corinthians. It's like you're burning away the ash, you're burning away the straw and the wood, and what'll come through is going to be a hardened diamond. But there is this. There is look, I don't care, everybody can say whatever they want.

Speaker 4: 57:15

There is a toxic element to traditionalism where you, you, you, just that victim mentality is such a hard thing to fight because it is happening, it's not a figment of anybody's imagination. You're getting traditionis custodis coming down. And I feel a little bit bad when I talk about this, because I happen to be in a good diocese where I have access to a good liturgy and not just a good liturgy a really good parish where, like all guys that like each other and they like this Sunday after mass they did a Bible study together. I went out to lunch with one of the guys. It's. If you don't have that kind of community or if you're driving two hours to go to mass, I can understand how it gets really hard. But, man, it's going to be important that we have some kind of an arc during the rough times that we have coming ahead of us, because I think things, if you think they're bad now, I think they're going to get way worse.

Speaker 2: 58:11

Yeah, things are relatively good actually. We're just not used to it being bad at all, so when it gets a little bit bad, we overreact. I mean, yeah, we have two calendars now, not the end of the world. Yeah, some parishes are doing sloppy and over-sort of, but you're still receiving the blessed sacrament. There have been times in history where people haven't had access to the sacrament. There are times in history where the church has been properly oppressed and persecuted and you've died for professing a Christian faith.

Speaker 4: 58:37

We don't have any of that. Nobody's preventing any of us from being holy and being saints except Twitter, not like nobody's preventing any of us from being holy and being saints except twitter. Maybe twitter might be holding me back from that. Um, you know what? There is, this element of optimism I've noticed since the election, where I think people are like they have a little bit of hope, like all right, maybe we could write this ship a little bit. I am very cautiously optimistic. I I do worry that we're being lulled into a little bit of a complacency to think things are going to be good and you never know what's coming down the road. But I do think that interior optimism is a must, and especially for men who have sons, like we have to raise the next generation and we have to raise the next generation to raise that generation after them. It's easy to get caught into those negativity cycles and just get sucked into it.

Speaker 2: 59:25

So I mean Well, I'm glad to be in America at this time in history. I think this country is entering a golden age and, yes, donald Trump is not perfect, but he is the right man for this right time and I think he's going to make a massive. We're already seeing the difference he's making, not just in America but across the world. It's changing the atmosphere, it's changing the vibe. People are thinking actually, we can make a difference, we can turn things around, the pendulum can swing back, we can re-grasp our claim on Christendom, on the West, on civilization itself. That's a good thing.

Speaker 4: 59:56

Do you still have time or do you have to split? I don't have time. All right, Rob, let's go over to locals. Let's go have some real fun. For those of you who are not on our locals, this is where we get to actually talk about some of the things we can't talk about here. We'll get into a little bit more of what's going on behind the scenes of me and Rob getting canceled and some of the things that's happening there.

Speaker 4: 1:00:16

Or maybe we won't, I don I know he's watching. The funniest part of this whole thing is that the guy trying to get us cancelled is a paid local subscriber. He pays to see the after show because he thinks we might talk about him. So he pays to see the bonus show.

Speaker 2: 1:00:32

Well, it's not the guy that's been paying tonight to comment to say I'm MI6 or CIA, like constantly paying to. I think hate brings out more passion than love in some people.

Speaker 4: 1:00:44

First off, it's just silly, and not for nothing. I think that we had a really uplifting conversation tonight, like we I don't know this was a. This was a really fun. It went fast. That's how I know it was a good conversation, because I looked up and an hour went by and there are some conversations you have and you're like, oh man, can I stretch this another 10 minutes? No, I could sit and talk with you for hours and I'd never get bored. What?

Speaker 2: 1:01:05

we need to do is sit and talk with a cigar and a glass of whiskey. Oh, I would love that.

Speaker 4: 1:01:09

Where are you?

Speaker 1: 1:01:10

Anthony hates whiskey. What?

Speaker 2: 1:01:14

What do you only drink, limoncello or something.

Speaker 1: 1:01:18

Oh, basically, yeah, actually.

Speaker 4: 1:01:21

He does Listen. There's some triggers that you can set in people. If you tell them like I'll say like, nobody enjoys steak without A1, and they go ballistic. If you need A1 on your steak, you don't know how to cook. Or if I say there's not a single man on the planet who likes bourbon. It's just something they say to so they can look cool, people go nuts over it. I don't believe you actually enjoy the taste of turpentine, so I don't want to hear it.

Speaker 1: 1:01:48

It's not vodka.

Speaker 2: 1:01:50

Did you not develop taste buds then, or something? Is this genetic?

Speaker 4: 1:01:53

No, it's just me trying to upset people. Alright, so we're going to go over to the other side. Father, is there anything we can promote for you?

Speaker 2: 1:02:00

I'm good, but if people want to find out more, they can just type in Calvin Robinson. I've got a website. I'm on all the social medias. See you out there and God bless.

Speaker 4: 1:02:07

And to any of the Protestants that checked out our show have a little more joy in your lives, man. Not everything has to be this fight. Not everything has to be. Look, you guys can't get along with each other.

Speaker 2: 1:02:19

We're praying to Mary for you At the end of this show.

Speaker 4: 1:02:23

I assure you we will be asking Our Lady to intervene and soften all of your hearts For anybody that's able. Rob and I will be in North Carolina February 8th. Conversations like this are what I'm looking forward to having there. Even if they kick us off the docket, I'll be there as an attendee. We'll still keep promoting this thing and we will be there for the duration of the conference to hang out with everybody.

Speaker 1: 1:02:45

We'll be at the bar.

Speaker 4: 1:02:47

We'll be at the bar the whole time. I'll be drinking a Cosmo. Rob will have a bourbon. Alright, we'll see you guys on the other side.

Speaker 1: 1:02:56

Let me cut off the other streams here.

Speaker 4: 1:03:16

Okay, other streams here. Okay, I love their comments in your chat. I forgot about this. I honestly don't even look at them because I look every time you did it. It's the same. Look, everybody knows we have a difference of opinion on this, right like it's. I'm not going to sit here and badger you to convert to catholicism, you know is it?

Speaker 2: 1:03:29

it's a silly conversation. That's what they want. An hour of you saying submit to rome, it's, it's.

Speaker 4: 1:03:34

Look, I, I, I see that you're an intelligent man and you're you're weighing these things right like it's not something I'm going to say if god calls me to room, I'll go to.

Speaker 2: 1:03:44

Happily, go to room. I'll probably be a layman if I went over to rome, though, with this current state of the church, but right now, you know what.

Speaker 4: 1:03:51

There is a freedom in that, though. Um, like, like I was saying, like this whole thing with them getting us canceled, like the idea that I'm not a professional like you would land on your feet no matter what you know. So, if it ever does come to that, there is a freedom in that. And this, the the whole thing with this, uh, with us going to talk at this conference, it's I, it doesn't matter to me if I get canceled from the conference. Like it's not, like we're making a, making money to go.

Speaker 4: 1:04:20

We were going for the community of it and I just want to meet people that watch our show and stuff and it's a, it's a fun weekend, it's a time for me and rob to get to see each other, because we try to, at least once a year, see each other. And, uh, it was just like they invited us to this thing. Let's go and do it, you know. So it it's I. I don't understand people who, like, like Jordan Peterson says and people get mad at him for saying it but like hell is a state of mind, and I'm not saying that's the actual teaching, but you can see, hell develops in this life in some people's minds and they live in hell. They live in misery and they want to be thieves of joy. Like it drives them nuts when other people are happy.

Speaker 2: 1:05:04

I mean logically, it makes sense. If heaven is the beatific vision, then hell is the absence of that. So in a way it is I mean it's not literally a state of mind, but in a way it is it's the rejection of God's love.

Speaker 4: 1:05:15

Yeah, and CS Lewis says I think it was Lewis right. He says, like every, every decision you make is either a step towards heaven or towards hell. Right, like every, everything you do is you're either reaching towards God's glory or you're heading yourself down the path toward hell.

Speaker 2: 1:05:30

This is what we were talking about. Like you're trying to, your job is to lead people to the escalator, but you want them to get on the upwards escalator, not the downwards escalator.

Speaker 4: 1:05:37

Yeah, what, what? What was your youth like, like, were you always like, did you ever have a period where you, um, were away from God? Not maybe not an atheist, but, like Rob and I have spoken about it, where there was a period in my life where I lived as though God didn't exist, even though I wasn't an atheist. I just kind of went, I stopped attending the sacraments and I kind of just you know my way did like, what was your? What was your journey towards even thinking of being a deacon?

Speaker 2: 1:06:04

oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I had, uh what? Towards the end of my undergrad, um, I started working in industry and it's just, it's about making money, having fun, making friends, going out, getting drunk, meeting girls. It's just, like you know, standard western society lifestyle. So I definitely went through a period of that, but it was so empty it didn't last very long. In fact, that's probably what nudged me on the path towards Holy Orders just seeking vocation, seeking contentment and fulfilledness over just constantly chasing happiness what were your?

Speaker 4: 1:06:40

what were your parents? Like, like, did they nudge you towards vocation, as my parents, my mom, my mom always said so. I have eight siblings. My mom was like, if I have a priest, it's going to be anthony. She couldn't have been further from the truth, but I always did your daughter likes preaching the most.

Speaker 4: 1:06:57

That's right yeah, that's what I think, that's what she saw in me, even as a kid, like I, always, even when, even like I, when I was young, I had like a real love for god. And then I just had that period where I just was like I don't want to be bought, I was. I was adam hiding in the garden, you know, just just pretending god don't look at me, I'm naked, you know. And I just kind of did my thing. And I had a very similar experience where it was just complete emptiness. But, um, were your parents very active in your, in your faith, when you were young?

Speaker 2: 1:07:26

uh no, my parents are more nominal christians than anything, but I think everyone goes through that. I think we all break away at some point. And then this this is why it's so important to have a good, solid foundation. Like it doesn't matter which end of the spectrum you fall on and it's even well, I suppose, especially cradle catholics I can. I'm concerned about because people take it for granted, like, yeah, you're in a catholic family, yeah, you're gonna have a catholic faith. Like, no, you've got to instill this in your children from day one so that if, if and when they do break away at some point, they have that foundation to come back to and they know where jesus is. But if you just take it all for granted, like many modern families do do, or you know, some people say, when they're old enough they'll make their own mind up and stuff, give them this, plant the seeds.

Speaker 4: 1:08:10

Yeah, I'll tell you my parents. But the one thing my mom did and she did it so good was she like she showed us Marian apparitions, she showed us the Eucharist like Eucharistic miracles, things like that. So even when I kind of was away and and look if you, if you live a life of habitual mortal sin, you will lose your faith, like it's, it's what happens, you lose your faith. So. But I remember when that emptiness came, there was never an option of anything but catholicism.

Speaker 1: 1:08:38

It was like I, I know the eucharist bleeds and they tested it and like even when you're away, like for me, it's like I knew well, at some point I'm going back. I don't know when that is, I don't know what I'm, you know what I'm going to finally be tired of of the world, but I know, eventually I'm going back.

Speaker 4: 1:08:59

Yeah, you went a better foundation than I did catechetically, rob, but I do think my mom instilled enough in me that I knew, like, so I'm a father, I'm married. My wife was Lutheran when we got married. We had to get a dispensation from the bishop. She had to agree to raise the kids Catholic. You had a mixed marriage. Oh man, this was. I wasn't taking my faith seriously, I wasn't catechized at the time, but I knew enough you have to get married in the Catholic church.

Speaker 1: 1:09:23

Yes, yes so but see, see you. You say I was better catechized, and maybe I was, but I, I didn't get married in the church you did.

Speaker 4: 1:09:33

Oh, you had to get your marriage non-validated.

Speaker 1: 1:09:35

Well, yeah, after I told the RCIA teacher that that's what was supposed to happen and they agreed to it. Yes, oh wow you won't be married. What was that? Where did you get married?

Speaker 1: 1:09:46

uh, we just knew a guy that had, you know, done the 10-minute course online to you know become a ordained minister and I've never heard this story, no way yeah, yeah, we were gonna have a a wedding outside, um, up by where we live. Now we weren't living here at the time, but we were just gonna have an outdoor wedding and it rained that day, so we had a an indoor wedding at, at a resort by, uh, by a friend of ours who was dressed in a bright blue suit wow so, totally non-sacramental, completely yeah that's so interesting, like even okay.

Speaker 4: 1:10:20

So talking about the sacrament of marriage, right, when you like the lack of understanding that Protestants have in the sacraments, that we have such an incarnational faith that God becomes man, that then he institutes these sacraments and that's how he imparts grace to us. Like my wife and I are getting each other to heaven, and I really do believe I am going to face a judgment one day on the husband and father. I was like, of all the things that I'm going to have to stand before God on it's, were you a good husband? Were you a good father? And you know that's obviously tumultuous times.

Speaker 4: 1:10:59

I mean me and my wife have gone through rough times, but the strength that God has brought into that relationship, like my watching my wife, so she was Lutheran and then when I have my conversion she goes to RCA and becomes Catholic, but kind of at my request. But the first time I ever heard my wife say, Anthony, I love Jesus, I was elated. It was the most beautiful day of my life. My wife had her own conversion and fell in love with Jesus and it was one of the most beautiful days of my marriage.

Speaker 1: 1:11:37

Lex in the chat says no, you idiot, You're going to stand before God and he's going to pull up your Twitter. I know, we do have a question for father here. We do have a question for father. Someone wants to know what it's like for you living in grand rapids, which apparently is, like he's saying, it's, the dutch calvinist mecca. Yes, yes, they say around here.

Speaker 2: 1:12:01

If you ain't dutch, you ain't much. Uh, no, it's fine. Dutch Calvinist Mecca. Yes, yes, they say around here, if you ain't Dutch, you ain't much. No, it's fine. There's a lovely Roman Catholic parish just down the road called Sacred Hearts. I have a good friendship with the priests there. It's.

Speaker 1: 1:12:13

Flanders Parish.

Speaker 2: 1:12:15

There is a good Orthodox church.

Speaker 4: 1:12:19

Do you know Tim Flanders? Yeah, what's his channel? Rob, the Meaning of Catholic.

Speaker 2: 1:12:26

Yeah, yeah, we met. It's interesting, it's such a small world. There are a lot of people there. Tim Flanders actually came around mine yesterday. We were smoking cigars on Sunday.

Speaker 4: 1:12:38

Oh, that's awesome, I love that.

Speaker 2: 1:12:39

That's sweet. But yeah, he dropped off a couple of books for me yesterday. And yeah, there's a good Antiochian parish nearby as well, called Holy Spirit. No, that's not Holy Spirit, the Catholic one's Holy Spirit. Anyway, there's good parishes nearby with good, solid priests we have good relationships with. There are lots of Reformed people around here, but they seem the more friendly, joyful, reformed types.

Speaker 2: 1:13:05

How often do you get recognized in public? It's fairly often More so back home in the UK than here, but still fairly often I go to grab a coffee. They say what's your name? I just say Father. They go, father Robinson. I'm like wait a minute.

Speaker 1: 1:13:22

The barista knows you Wait a minute. I didn't.

Speaker 2: 1:13:27

How do?

Speaker 4: 1:13:27

you know how have you enjoyed your time? Like, what's the what's the biggest change from living in the UK to coming over here? Like, what do you think is like the biggest culture shock?

Speaker 1: 1:13:37

now being arrested for his Twitter, the optimism, the optimism.

Speaker 2: 1:13:42

I love my homeland. I love my country so much. But it's just grey and it's very James White-y. It's very miserable. It's just not pleasant anymore and people are stuck in a rut because they know that it's bad but they don't know how to change it. You know, we gave up our gun rights. We have no free speech under law. Our government hates us. They're raping our daughters.

Speaker 4: 1:14:07

It us, they're raping our daughters. It's like it's just dire that whole story. Holy god, do you do you think there is hope for the uk, or okay? So I kind of have this. I kind of think, because europe abandoned the faith, yeah, that the only way out is through a chastisement, like I don't see them turning a corner. I see a divine chastisement because europe don't see them turning a corner. I see a divine chastisement coming because Europe is the faith. You cannot separate Europe from the faith. Church history is European history. What I'm watching, with these Muslim hordes coming in, is just the chastisement is coming.

Speaker 2: 1:14:39

I'd say this is the chastisement. I'd say the only way to save Europe is through revival. That means returning to the faith. Uh, I think between now and then we'll probably have civil wars all across europe, including my homeland, because there's no democratic, no political answer at this point. It is just going to come to violence and there's no way around it. So unless people turn back to getting on their knees and praying, nothing's going to change for the good do you have a shot at us citizenship?

Speaker 4: 1:15:07

are you here on like a, on a short visa? Do you have to go back? What like? What's the? What's the?

Speaker 2: 1:15:12

story. I'm on a visa um, I'm working towards residency um, but you should just snuck into the southern border.

Speaker 4: 1:15:19

Is it h1b? Because if so, we might have to send you back. Honestly, I could have gone to the local episcopal church.

Speaker 1: 1:15:21

They would have stamped my I d. You should have just snuck in through the southern border. Is it H1B? Because if so, we might have to send you back.

Speaker 2: 1:15:24

Honestly, I could have gone to the local Episcopal church. They would have stamped my ID or whatever. I would have got a free cell phone. Give me a hotel, ship me off to somewhere sunny, yeah, catholic charities would have set you all up? Have you seen James O'Keefe's documentary?

Speaker 4: 1:15:38

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:15:45

Well, not the whole thing. I saw clips of it, I didn't see the full thing. It's absolutely criminal what these Catholic charities do. And again, the church used to say you are not Catholic Like Catholics for abortion and all these things. You are not Catholic, you're done.

Speaker 4: 1:15:51

I think Catholic charities is the biggest human trafficking outfit on planet Earth. I think it is beyond criminal, Like the amount of child rape they have enabled, the amount that it is such a horrific like you're funneling government funds into these outfits and they're incentivized to keep this racket going until you cut that funding off. This is it's one of the most heinous, freaking things I've ever witnessed in my entire life and people don't even know it I know it's just evil, but again, there's so much money in it that it's not in anyone's interest to shut it down.

Speaker 2: 1:16:42

The only person that could do it is Trump. It's Trump. Let's hope that he does.

Speaker 4: 1:16:46

I have a friend, my friend, adrian, lives in Manchester and I met him on the Pilgrim. We should talk about that too. We did a pilgrimage with Patrick, yeah, but he went to. Let me tell you something, that man runs an amazing pilgrimage. Amazing pilgrimage, oh yeah. I had never been to europe before we went to italy together. I met some of the most beautiful people I could ever imagine. We spent two weeks together and had such an amazing time.

Speaker 4: 1:17:13

Now the, the priest that was supposed to come with us, something happened where I think his mother got sick and he couldn't come, so it wound up.

Speaker 4: 1:17:21

We didn't have a chaplain for the trip and we kind of drank a lot. I don't think he wanted to put you out because you just came on the previous one, but I had never seen italy before and it was just, oh man, for me to experience, especially being italian, like to go and kind of get, get like a little grasp on what my ancestry was like and the freaking architect. I was in like a state of joy the whole time. I was there just watching what a, what a properly ordered christian civilization looks like, where the church is the highest point in the city, everything is built around it and looking at some of the architecture with the. Oh my goodness, when I walked into the Last Judgment at the Duomo in Orvieto, it was nothing broke my heart like that in my life, like I felt like I was standing at the Last Judgment. It was such an amazing, amazing experience. But you guys did France, though, right.

Speaker 2: 1:18:20

Yeah, we did, we did. But I mean, the old world is just absolutely beautiful, it doesn't matter where you go, but of course rome is the cradle of civilization. It's just so much. Of that beauty is now empty. That's the thing. You know, the worst mass I've ever been to in my life was in saint peter's basilica, and that shouldn't be the case yeah, it's so sad.

Speaker 2: 1:18:37

50 years ago they would have been saying the latin mass all the way around that basilica, just priests constantly all day praying the mass. Now they have one floppy, novus ordo, where they're just like there's no reverence at all.

Speaker 4: 1:18:48

It is the most heartbreaking thing to see this unbelievable beauty that was designed for the traditional liturgy, like the, the. The structures themselves are designed for the traditional liturgy, all these beautiful side altars. And you go in in and look, we're coming from America. Right, you're visiting Italy. Nothing would be more beautiful than to have the universal church language so that I know where I am in the mass and I know the response. Like it made you see the wisdom in the church for 2000 years having this separate dead language only for the church, because no matter where in the world you go, you understand where you are in the liturgy. It was heartbreaking to just see these side altars used as museum pieces. I was devastated at it.

Speaker 2: 1:19:36

Well, I mean, we had lots of good trips around different places around France, but the highlight of the trip for me was probably one of the highlights of my life. Actually, we went to Lisieux. We went to the chapel of Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception Sorry, our Lady of the Miraculous Medal. And this is where it all started.

Speaker 2: 1:19:58

This is where the Miraculous Medal came from, and so we're having a mass in there and bishop strickland is leading and he's there with his deacon and these nuns come shuttling up and you know how these places are because they're like disneyland they get in and out, in and out, in and out, and this nun goes up to the deacon, the deacon goes up to bishop strickland and I'm watching like what's going on here? As I'm trying to pray, I'd be distracted by these nuns shuttling around. And anyway, it seems that the nun said you're over your time, the next lot are in for their mass. And Bishop Strickland just said no, we're celebrating the mass. The mass takes as long as the mass takes. I was like yes, bishop, thank you Exactly.

Speaker 4: 1:20:38

More bishops like this, please.

Speaker 2: 1:20:40

And this was, oh yeah, he'd been cancelled at this point. In fact, there was one church in France that refused to let him say the Mass, which is just abominable. But anyway, he invited me to preach, and that was such a privilege to preach with America's bishop, who I have so much respect for. But as I started, there were only a handful of people in there because it was just us, but towards the end the whole place was full, not because of my preaching, preaching, but just because it's the disneyland, and it was just people from all over the world. And so, as the math ended, we uh, we sing a marion anthem and of course we're all. Well, I'm singing in english, most of the other guys were singing in american, and and there's people from all over the world french, german, whatever and they're all sick, they're all joining because they know the tune, but they're singing with their own words and somehow it just perfectly, perfectly harmonized.

Speaker 2: 1:21:22

That's amazing, you know you have those moments where you really feel the grace, you physically feel the graces, and I felt that and that will stay with me forever. It was just a real epitome of joy. It was fantastic.

Speaker 4: 1:21:34

Yeah, man, I'll tell you I never had been on a pilgrimage before, and there was just a couple of moments on that pilgrimage we saw several Eucharistic miracles. We went to Assisi. Have you ever been to Assisi? No, it is the most. It's like you're walking into something from the Lord of the Rings. You've never seen anything like it. It's just this stone fairytale land. And then there's this Roman temple in the middle. I just I can't even believe the experience I had and that Patrick called me like two months before he was going and invited me on it and I was just like I'm shifting, whatever the hell I have to shift around to go on this thing. It was just such an amazing experience, man, like we.

Speaker 4: 1:22:21

Really, no matter what the most beautiful basilica is in america, it doesn't compare to something that's been standing for a thousand years. And when you, when you're confronted with time like that, where you see a cathedral that took three or four centuries to build, yeah, this is something that makes you feel so small. But you recognize these people that say why doesn't the church donate their money to poor instead? It's like this is our inheritance, like this this is the kingdom of heaven that, through the centuries, the church has gifted to us and you get to go and sit in this castle because it's the kingdom. Come to earth, right? So you're, if you, when King charles gets put in, I can't just go to king charles's inauguration. I can't, I'm not welcome, I'm not royalty and I'm not, you know, whatever you're definitely not welcome.

Speaker 4: 1:23:14

No, but I can go rob as much of a peasant as I am, I can walk into any castle in the kingdom of heaven and worship the king of kings and it is my home. And it was something so beautiful about that experience that you're just, you're going into St Peter's Basilica and you're standing before the PA time. You're like man. Thank God the church did this. Thank God they told indulgences, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:23:40

I wouldn't go that far.

Speaker 2: 1:23:41

I wouldn't go that far, but it's that far, but it's you know, it's a word you guys use all the time awesome, but that is the definition of it really in those places. And it's another distinction within Catholicism and Protestantism, because there's so many Protestants that have these ugly buildings and they're like we shouldn't have these beautiful buildings full of gold because they be poor people and you can't waste something on him, especially if it's beautiful. And the point that you're making that everyone has access to these castles that's the point. We all have access to that beauty, like the porpoise who don't have any beauty in their life can still go to those great, big ancient cathedrals soaked in centuries of prayer and be a part of it. That's wonderful.

Speaker 1: 1:24:22

The poor people that got to experience those things hundreds of years ago. Yeah, far richer than we are now in our empty materialistic world absolutely.

Speaker 4: 1:24:33

Um, it's just even seeing the ancient ruins of the roman empire. It made me just see the look, the. You still have these greek statues and these because the, the, the, the roman empire, would like steal stuff and they would, you know, bring it back to rome and wherever they went.

Speaker 4: 1:24:53

So you have, like, these egyptian obelisks throughout, throughout rome, and but just because of the minority, though, to be fair probably it's the of the Illuminati, though, to be fair, probably the whole idea of the sacred image really had such a deep effect on me while I was there. Because we're in such a pornified culture where you're just being thrown filth in your face at all times. And to go and see the sacred image in stone because even in modern Catholics we get holy cards or you go to a funeral and they hand you a holy card, then you lose it, you throw it in the garbage it's like no, that's a sacred image. But to see them in stone, it made you, it made me like, see that like a culture properly ordered toward god is going to build beautiful, permanent things to honor that God. And it's just like the modern concept of religion is just so off. It drives me nuts.

Speaker 2: 1:25:50

And that's one of the major differences. You said what's different between home and America. I love the optimism of America, I love the people in America, but the place, america, is just ugly and I know people hate me saying that, but America is, relatively speaking, ugly. The old world is so beautiful because it was made at a time where people knew God.

Speaker 4: 1:26:08

Have you been to any of the national parks?

Speaker 2: 1:26:12

No, I haven't actually, but I'd love to get up to Yellowstone.

Speaker 4: 1:26:15

Yellowstone, because I went and visited the Southwest. I went to the Grand Canyon and look America's ugly in our materialistic culture and in our ugly buildings. I mean, I live in New York. It's it's. It's basically a monument to our God of money. You know, like you have the trade centers.

Speaker 2: 1:26:35

It's just, it's just we are such a ball.

Speaker 4: 1:26:39

But when I went to the Grand Canyon there was something about standing before God's cathedral. It was like God's monstrance, you know like nature's monstrance where I was, just because America's materialism is ugly, but the actual natural landscape, if you can get away from.

Speaker 2: 1:26:58

God's creation is beautiful wherever you go. Oh man yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:27:01

Yeah, so Father, thank you so much we have one question specifically for father, kind of kind of about immigration. So someone has a friend who wants to be from Manchester, that he wants.

Speaker 4: 1:27:17

This is my friend from Manchester, so we're trying to get he wants. That's why, okay. So this is my friend Adrian. He's from Manchester, he has, he thinks he has a vocation, but he's like I can't do it in england because everything's such a mess. So we put him in touch with bishop strickland, right, and bishop strickland told him to go to, uh, my friend bobby's diocese, uh, bishop burbidge, who's that? Um, where's that? Bishop Strickland recommended you go to Bishop Burbage. Now the problem is you need to be a resident there for two years. So me and Bobby are like, well, maybe we could go through Catholic Charities and get him in.

Speaker 1: 1:27:54

Like, the immigration issue.

Speaker 4: 1:27:55

Before the diocese will sponsor him, before they'll sponsor him, he has to be a resident for two years, so that's the issue we're facing with him years, so that's the issue we're facing with them.

Speaker 2: 1:28:03

All I can say on that is none of it's easy. It's a lot of bureaucracy. I only just got my visa. It's taken months and I went through the extraordinary persons thing, so it's slightly different.

Speaker 4: 1:28:19

You also have a lot of connections and you know a lot of people.

Speaker 2: 1:28:22

Honestly, none of my connections helped. I had to put all this paperwork in order. I had to go for interviews and actually it's a very detached process. You get to the US Embassy and you line up in this massive line like you're at the post office. You get to one kiosk, they check your paperwork. You get to the next kiosk after another long line, they take your fingerprints. Another long line, another kiosk the interview. They don't even look at you, there's no eye contact. They're like on the cut. It's just so impersonal and it's horrible Dehumanizing.

Speaker 1: 1:28:56

Yeah, dehumanizing.

Speaker 4: 1:28:58

We have to figure out a way to get together, man. I don't know how we'll do it, but maybe there'll be some conference that we could both go to and we get to both hang out. All three of us will get to hang out somewhere man.

Speaker 2: 1:29:10

Yeah, shoot some guns. Well, I'm in Grand Rapids. You guys are welcome anytime.

Speaker 4: 1:29:15

You're incredibly easy to talk to. Honestly, when we had 1,200 subscribers, you came on and hung with us and that was at like the peak of when everybody wanted to talk to you. So I really do appreciate that man. We'll throw you another invite. I'll give you some time in between. I know you're a busy guy, but thank you for coming on with us. Thank you for backing me up with your based and Mary Pilled and making this whole thing.

Speaker 2: 1:29:39

Hey, just keep being based and Mary Pilled.

Speaker 4: 1:29:46

God bless you thing. Hey, just keep being based in maripold. Thank you so much, man. We will see you guys. Uh, what do we got? We got nothing for thursday yet. We'll figure something out, though we'll see you guys, thank you.