Anthony's James White Drama Continues

This episode navigates the complexities of being Catholic in today’s world, exploring humor, tradition, and community. The hosts reflect on family reactions to their show, welcome discussions on ecumenism, and affirm their commitment to genuine dialogue. 

• Family reactions and their impact on the show 
• Viewership updates and subscriber goals 
• Recap of last episode and audience feedback 
• The significance of James White and Calvin Robinson’s discussions 
• Defining a “real” Catholic and the role of tradition 
• Upcoming guests and community interaction 
• Humor and authenticity as central themes in discourse 
• The balance of faith, understanding, and tradition in modern times

Chapters

• 0:56 Viewer Videos and Family Reactions
• 5:11 Alcohol, Apologies, and Twitter Trolling
• 14:38 Theological Debate on Mary and Feasts
• 23:40 Corruption Theory in Church History
• 29:01 Historical Revisionism in Protestantism
• 33:33 Theological Differences and Christian Nationalism
• 46:51 Moral Theology Q&A Livestream Suggestions
• 52:19 Reformation History and Liturgical Modernism
• 1:06:37 Comparing Novus Ordo and Orthodox
• 1:13:42 Baptism and Christian Doctrine
• 1:18:14 Ecumenism and Theological Differences
• 1:28:48 St Paul, Stigmata, Temptation, Theology

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:56

Sancte, Sancte, amare morti necradas nos In taste fair of errant. What are we watching? I'm not sure exactly. This is what happens when we let viewers submit videos to us oh my goodness.

Speaker 3: 1:39

so rafael um sends us a lot of entries, but almost everyone he sends us and there's some of them are really good, but almost everyone he sends us is it's Anthony's son. Yeah, um, no thanks, nick. Well that we have to talk about that. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:59

Yes, that was pine tap.

Speaker 3: 2:01

Actually could very well be puns.

Speaker 1: 2:02

It could have been by that let's dance that way.

Speaker 3: 2:05

Um so, uh, yeah, every video Raphael sends us is like copyright stuff in it, but they're all funny. But like like I was going through them today Cause I couldn't find an opening video, so Rob goes. Well, I got something I could play. He's like it's kind of gay. I'm like, well, that'll fit well, since we called you gay.

Speaker 1: 2:21

We got to talk about this too. You set me up for that.

Speaker 3: 2:26

So wait, so I don't see the Facebook comments. Who's in the Facebook comments?

Speaker 1: 2:32

Where.

Speaker 3: 2:33

You said in the Facebook comments.

Speaker 1: 2:35

My mother.

Speaker 3: 2:37

She was watching when I said that last episode.

Speaker 1: 2:39

Yeah, well, I was watching too, but what was funnier? So New Year's Eve, my boys were with my mom at her house for New Year's Eve and she saw I just talked to her on the phone. She saw us go on. She's like I didn't know what was going on. So she put that on the TV, on her Apple TV, and next thing I, next thing, next thing she knows Matthias, my five-year-old is asking her what does it mean if daddy's gay? Not, I don't know.

Speaker 3: 3:17

So thanks mean if daddy's gay, not, oh man, so thanks for that. Aunt this. Uh, it's so funny like you forget. Like family members do check the show out on occasion. You know, like every once in a while I'll go to, I'll go to a, um, I'll go to a family event and somebody be annoyed with me and it's like oh man, what did I say on air? Like I'm always, I'm always saying something like my, my mom actually said she was and I want, I would love to like act like just put one episode on in front of dad one time.

Speaker 1: 3:38

She's like, but I'm always afraid you're gonna say something about that just tell her you only keep the really really, really, really, really personal stuff that you should never tell anyone private. For our hundred viewers on locals that's it. It's a perfect place to go and, oh, in the thousand people that listen to every audio podcast yeah, that's actually true.

Speaker 3: 3:57

We do get a decent amount of people listening on audio like we're, like we're we actually place on buzzsprout right yeah, top five percent that's pretty good. Okay, before we get started, you guys please go to our. That's pretty good. Okay, before we get started, you guys please go to our Gryph store. I mean our merch store.

Speaker 1: 4:16

And you guys could get, which is shopavoidingbabyloncom.

Speaker 3: 4:19

Shop at avoidingbabyloncom. You guys can get all sorts of fun stuff shirts, things like that. So the reason we Also please hit, like and subscribe we're actually doing a little bit better with subs.

Speaker 1: 4:31

Uh, in the past week or two have you told them our goal for the year? We want to get to 25 000 we're at 15 000 now, so we need 10 000 more people this year, so please share the videos with people that yeah, whether they will enjoy them or not. Hate watchers are fine too.

Speaker 3: 4:50

We love hate watchers and the subs like help you get bigger guests and stuff. So look the last. The last video was kind of off the rails. We put the same similar title. Anthony and nick managed to piss off eastern catholics and robin two beautiful hours yes, I have seen lots of uh, lots of comments about eastern catholics um, I hope everybody knows it was just me trying to be fun.

Speaker 3: 5:12

Look, when I drink, I don't know like the other thing, I kept cutting ryan off like really bad, which I try not to do now as much as I used to like I try to pay attention, but I a few drinks in, there's no, like every time ryan would try to say something I was like no, no, no wait, and I would just pummel over him. I felt bad for the guy. You get, get the 25,000,. Maybe Peugeot will too. I don't think so I've said too many things about him probably.

Speaker 3: 5:38

Oh, I don't. I don't know if that'll get back to him, but it's more just, he just is one guy that won't budge. I mean, I've, I've, I've gotten pretty much most of the people I've tried to get on have gone on now. I did talk a little smack about frad last episode, um, and I totally forgot that I did oh, I wonder why I completely forgot.

Speaker 3: 6:01

And then I went back and re-listened to parts of the show and I was like, oh no. So I guess I was saying, uh, you know, since matt's had jordan peterson on and guys like that, maybe he's like too too, too big to talk to us and stuff because he doesn't. He wasn't responding to my emails. I got a text from matt frad yesterday. So, uh, matt frad uh texted me, which I never even had his number before, and now I have his number.

Speaker 1: 6:31

So so the trolling worked. In other words, it worked.

Speaker 3: 6:35

So he said Matt Fradd, here quote what you said on livestream last night. I don't know if you've been texting me or not, but he had to have his number changed. So he thought I was texting him and his number got changed. But he wasn't avoiding me, he's just been very busy, in other words, he he wasn't avoiding me, he's just been very busy, in other words. So he wasn't avoiding babylon. No, he wasn't, apparently. So I apologize to matt if I said anything. I you know, I don't even. It's just one of those shows, man, but people did seem to enjoy me. Uh, just saying whatever came to mind.

Speaker 1: 7:08

So I missed one episode, and let's see. I come back to comments from anger eastern catholics. I see a text from matt frad saying you talked about him. I see emails from people saying that we're meeting up in the spring, apparently, and they're supposed to email me to set it up. So yeah, it was an interesting show that I wasn't even a part of it dude, it was a pretty messy one, like we started playing, all right.

Speaker 3: 7:31

So that's why we're going to do this tonight, because I I have clips of james white discussing my tweet and then the thing is it's not really about me, it's more about calvin robinson and what they're doing to calvin robinson. But I think I played like 15 seconds of the clip and I got sidetracked and we never talked about it again the rest of the episode. So we're going to play that clip tonight. Uh, and then I do have was was nick, really extreme yeah, a lot of people were asking him.

Speaker 3: 7:56

Nick's a set of a contest I saw those comments too.

Speaker 1: 7:59

I even deleted some, to be honest, which?

Speaker 3: 8:02

he's not. He's not, he's just has very extreme views when it comes to the nova sordo mass. Nick will be joining us in a little while. Uh, anthony also said rob was going to pay $500 for his friend to go on a retreat. I said something like that. I don't think I actually said, rob was going to pay for it. Probably we're going to subsidize a few people, is what I said. Oh, here he is.

Speaker 1: 8:26

Oh, here's the settee now.

Speaker 3: 8:28

Here's the crypto settee. What's up y'all? How's it going?

Speaker 5: 8:34

we were just talking about the comments from last episode and everybody mad about me and my eastern catholic rants, and you and your set of a contest tendency which you're not, which I'm not, but you know you'd think with how much I rail on the nova, sorta they would like be like ah, just nick being the old grandpa complaining in the corner. You know the weird well the.

Speaker 3: 8:53

The thing is we're going to play, we're going to do the james white thing first. We're not going to bury the lead, but then we have we already have well did you guys apologize did you apologize, anthony, to mr frad I did.

Speaker 6: 9:05

I just apologized to matt.

Speaker 3: 9:08

Matt was very gracious. He reached out. He did text me, so matt and I are fine, everything's cool. I don't think I said anything that bad, I just. I think I might've said he's an arrogant douche. I might've said that, but I didn't mean it. I was like questioning.

Speaker 5: 9:25

If that's why he's no longer talking to me but clearly let's just say that the policy of this show going forward is Anthony must have four drinks before we go on, because that is the best episodes, the New Year's resolution, I gave up drinking not permanently for a period.

Speaker 3: 9:42

I have to do a period of no drinking because I get so dehydrated Like I went to bed after that episode so dehydrated that it was I felt terrible for two days in a row. So I finally today feel a lot better, but all right. So let's get the. Let's get the James White clip up and we'll actually play the thing through. And there's two clips. One is just about my tweet and then the followup is what he's doing with Calvin Robinson, and then I have a few tweets showing what they're trying to do is get him canceled from a conference that he's supposed to be speaking at. But there's also a question that calvin puts in there that I think is kind of interesting in terms of what can, what can we do with people that aren't catholic, like what is a, what is an appropriate amount of humanism? I'd say?

Speaker 3: 10:31

sure, sure what is that answering?

Speaker 1: 10:37

all right.

Speaker 3: 10:39

So let's, let's run through, let's play. Let's play the james white clip like the original one, the original one I think it's like uh from tuesday to like 247 yeah, let me see. So the original one. Yeah, I got it. Oh, also, when we go to locals tonight we have an amazing monty python clip I want to play. I would. I would have been an amazing opening video, but I we get copyright strike on it, so we couldn't open with it we probably were gonna get copyright for the the table of plenty, yeah let's hope not.

Speaker 5: 11:11

Oh, you guys played the table of plenty.

Speaker 3: 11:13

Well, it was the opening video tonight. I'm so sad.

Speaker 5: 11:17

I wasn't there. Were you ever exposed to that? Actually, really through this show, believe it or not, way back in the day, where we would open with that, because I avoided the game.

Speaker 3: 11:29

Jim sent me that video actually. All right, let's play the white clip.

Speaker 2: 11:37

Now he's not. Now he's on that they start looking into his tweets and things yeah, please don't look into anthony's tweets, guys. I always say, please don't judge me. And on the 27th, so three days ago now, there's a young guy. It's at catholic izm1. Anthony is his name clearly catholicism with a z and what this guy does is he posts tweets that are real short, extremely controversial and are just simply meant to get engagement.

Speaker 1: 12:13

It's called trolling. James, it's called trolling.

Speaker 2: 12:16

I guess that's how you make money on Twitter. Now my account is not monetized so I don't know, but evidently if you get people retweeting you or liking you and the bigger the accounts are that do so, I guess the more money you make liking you and the the bigger the accounts are that do so, I guess the more money you make or something I I really I read something about it but don't have any real experience in it, so I I don't know, but there are people making big, big bucks on YouTube on.

Speaker 2: 12:45

Twitter and stuff like that, and as normal we being the master marketers that we are, we're living on the bleeding edge. That's us. We are Says your red solo cup, yeah, anyway. So this guy, anthony, posted the following. I guess I might as well. Put that one back down here wait, pause it rob because and uh, it's not just like a villain me and nick pointed out he's wearing a pectoral cross.

Speaker 3: 13:23

Like he thinks he's a bishop. Like he he I call him the protestant pope because of it like he's wearing a pectoral cross. It's very interesting that he he does that. I don't know.

Speaker 5: 13:35

Yeah, it's very weird, in all honesty.

Speaker 3: 13:39

Spend all those All right. Now, for the record, I will tell you guys how much I make on Twitter. It's not much Like it's really not much Like. There's months where it'll be so they pay you every two weeks. I think the the most I've ever gotten was like 130 bucks and the least I've gotten is like 80. So somewhere between 80 and 130 bucks every two weeks, maybe 250 bucks a month. It's not even enough to pay a car bill. It's not. It's not big bucks Like. I'm just being honest with everybody. It's what it is. So you pay for the tickets he gets for tweeting while driving. Exactly, it's not. It's not much like it's, and it's for the amount of exorbitant amount of time I spend doing it. It's not worth it. So, but I do it not for the money, I do it for the laughs. Like I find it funny, like that's. I mean it's a bonus that they throw me a couple of shekels every month, but for the most part I'm just doing it because it makes me laugh.

Speaker 5: 14:32

For the tee-hees and the ha-has.

Speaker 3: 14:36

Still grossly overpaid. All right, let's go back, let's see who finishes up.

Speaker 2: 14:43

Here's Protestia. I have a couple of different versions of this. Now there's Anthony. The thief on the cross was saved.

Speaker 1: 14:52

He has a couple couple different versions because you tweet that tweet every two and a half weeks well, I've perfected it.

Speaker 3: 14:59

That's why, okay, so the first time I tweeted it I wasn't sure if it was too far. So the first time I tweeted I was like it was like in response to a protestant talking because they always do, protestants always got faith alone. Look at the thief. I said yeah, but actually I you know the thief was probably saved because Mary was trying to get the. But it was like I wrote probably the first time because I didn't know if I had offended Catholics.

Speaker 1: 15:23

But like Nick and I were talking about it last episode, it's like it sounds like one of those pious things that, like you, might read in the glories of mary. I mean, you didn't.

Speaker 3: 15:35

I would say it's accurate through her titles of mediatrics and co-redemptrix which is exactly that's about, as about as far as I'd go with it okay, yeah, I mean, the whole point of it was to rile people up. I mean, you know you're good at that. Oh, I am. You should make that one a shirt, by the way. That would be a good show. I'll have to figure out how to turn that one a shirt, by the way. That would be a good shirt.

Speaker 1: 15:52

I'll have to figure out how to turn that into a shirt somehow.

Speaker 3: 15:57

Yeah, Protessia always posts the best Catholic stuff. All right, let's finish it out.

Speaker 2: 16:03

Because Mary prayed for him at the foot of his cross. The thief on the cross was saved because Mary prayed for him at the foot of his cross. Now, I'll be honest with you. I had never heard anyone ever say that there's a reason for that. Maybe I've seen it, you know, in the glories of Mary by Liguori or something by Liguri or something I don't know, but I don't have any recollection of ever having heard anybody say this before. I've never seen it used as an argument.

Speaker 2: 16:43

I wrote a book almost a quarter century ago now. Well, more than a quarter century ago, that's 1999. So yeah, 25 years ago, a year before. On the subject of mary, another redeemer question mark, because the push was on to have mary was that all right?

Speaker 3: 17:03

so I cut it there. Yeah, the push was on to have mary. Mary's title is called redemptrix and mean hatreds of all graces, right, so that's has he heard of saint.

Speaker 5: 17:12

Has he heard of saint dissimus? I don't know if you guys know the story but, like probably people in the chat, you guys know the famous story of saint dissimus. It's told around christmas time where um saint dissimus was an early saint. He his story is essentially that he was a thief and a robber for a long time.

Speaker 3: 17:28

Well, no, check this out. So he was.

Speaker 5: 17:29

He was a thief and a robber for a long time and he got baptized. Well, no, check this out. So he was. He was a thief and a robber for a long time. And then he for um one year right, he was a thief along the bethlehem way and one year he came into contact with our lady and our lord. It was when our lady was going with our lord, pregnant, to bethlehem with St Joseph. Are you going to correct me, rob?

Speaker 1: 17:56

Dismas was about the same age as Christ, so Dismas was a child. His father was part of a bandit group. Oh, that's right, and he was with them, dismas was sick or lame or had some sort of disability and, like Christ, bathed in this pool by their, by where Dismas lived, that's right. Yeah, something like that. And then Dismas, where do we do it after it was healed?

Speaker 3: 18:25

Do we get that from the golden legend or is that from somewhere else? Either.

Speaker 1: 18:29

And Catherine Emmerich or Mary, Some of it's some of it's ancient, like very, very ancient.

Speaker 5: 18:36

The point I was going to make, though, was he. If memory's right, he ends up being the thief on the cross right and he looks down and what does he see?

Speaker 5: 18:45

he sees the same woman that he beheld as an infant. Then he looks up and he of course the same boy that was bathing in the pool next to him. The point is that James's perception of Catholicism and our devotion to Mary isn't even historically Protestant, because of course people can go to Luther, they can go to Calvin and they can read their writings about the pious customs of Christians and how great Our Lady is, etc. Etc. James is operating out of essentially a like 18th, 19th century version of Protestantism, which is quite sad. But yeah, of course it completely conforms with Catholic theology.

Speaker 3: 19:25

But more than that right, like even their understanding of how humans work, like how civilizations are built. When you go to a place that's thoroughly Catholic and you hear these pious legends, like the story of Dismas, like the statues we build, there's something about a culture when they actually put their religion first and not something like Liberty or something like democracy. Because, you see, you see it in our, in our own culture, where Protestants will tell you things like we worship Mary and the saints because we have statues to them, but they have statues to Abraham Lincoln and George Washington and they have holidays. For, like I saw Danny today saying, anytime you put something about, like anytime you, you, you venerate Mary, you end up making holidays to her and this is becomes idol worship and it's like dude, our entire culture, american culture, is built up these secular heroes.

Speaker 1: 20:27

It's absurd.

Speaker 3: 20:28

Instead of having heroes of the Christian faith, which is what the saints are they're just the heroes of the Christian faith, and you make holidays around them to remind your people of the thing that built the civilization.

Speaker 1: 20:40

I mean, think about it, more Protestants will probably watch the Super Bowl on Super Bowl Sunday than will go to some sort of church service on Super Bowl Sunday.

Speaker 5: 20:48

No, exactly, Absolutely no, exactly. I actually kind of gently chastised my parents not too long ago, because my parents are in this weird stage where they're very clearly, without admitting it, kicking the tires of Catholicism but their quote-unquote churches this past Christmas they're not having services. Why? Because they've made it a day where you go and you be with your family, right. And so what's so funny to me is that the same evangelicals who will always meme the Christers, right the Easter and Christmas Christians, are the same people whose churches aren't even open on Christmas, right.

Speaker 6: 21:25

It's completely secular.

Speaker 5: 21:26

It's so hypocritical, so bizarre, especially well, Christmas.

Speaker 3: 21:31

What is Christmas? It's Christ's christmas right like it's just, and and the idea that that we wouldn't have holidays to the people who I mean, how could you, how could you not have feast days? That's what. That's what holidays are. They're feast days, right?

Speaker 1: 21:45

so they've just said holidays every state. It stands for holy days.

Speaker 3: 21:48

Day. Yeah, so they've just taken what they've taken the patrimony that they had and, in a fit of anti-Catholic like it's just anti-Catholic They've gotten rid of all of the Catholic feasts and festivals and Holy Days that we had and replaced them with secular people to admire. And look, I mean that the same people will they get off for president's day and martin luther king day? It's like why would you not rather have off, especially in the in the middle ages, when you had a totally different kind of civilization, like the church ensured that people weren't worked to death. It wasn't six days a week every like. They had enough holy days mixed in there that you felt like you lived a life and you weren't just a slave to your master.

Speaker 5: 22:34

Yeah, liturgical living. Whenever I was in the process of converting, I just asked myself the basic question, and you guys can ask it too If Protestantism is correct and the gospel is somehow just obscured for any time period between Nicaea and 1600 or, you know, 1620 essentially, when do we really want to believe that, like your average peasant in the 8th century england who is just going to holy days, going to mass working the crops, etc. That all of them are damned, that there was just no hope? That's just such a bleak view, which is that's what.

Speaker 3: 23:10

That's why I want to get one of these Protestants on, to just push them on there. If you really believe the idea that some of them have that the Roman church is the whore of Babylon, how preposterous that is. Because what you're essentially saying is that Jesus Christ comes, dies for our sins, ascends into heaven, and now the gospel is he promises the kingdom. Like that is the gospel, the gospel he promises the kingdom. Now their thesis is not only did the kingdom not come, but the devil's kingdom came Because the Roman Catholic Church is a pagan cult that usurped Christianity. So the idea that constantine started the catholic church, right.

Speaker 3: 23:56

So there's christians for the first couple of years, and then constantine starts the catholic church and a pagan cult emerges instead of the gospel, and it's very muslim it's hidden for 1500 years until the, the holy martin, martin Luther, comes and rescues the gospel from the evil Catholic church, who wouldn't let people read it and they kept it chained up in the church.

Speaker 1: 24:18

The Luther, who believes more in Catholicism than he does a modern.

Speaker 5: 24:23

Protestant believes baptism saves, believes that our lady is a thing, believe sacramentology is the thing. To a degree, of course, it's very Muslim Cause, like Islam's whole religion is based on the presupposition that the earlier forms of revelation given to Abraham right Moses and Abraham with the Torah and the gospel with Christ were perverted by their followers and so the last prophet had to come and fix things out. Both Protestantism, islam and Mormonism all hinge upon a corruption theory. The church starts off good. It gets corrupt. Someone has to reform it. That's not our Lord's promise and it's also. Even if I wasn't Catholic, even if I was an atheist, I'd still make this argument, because when you look at the writings of the early Christians, you don't see either of those three religions.

Speaker 3: 25:12

You just don't see either of those three religions. You just don't. You don't see either of those three religions. But you the idea that it was hidden for that and and the things they think about the church are just so preposterous. Like that, the church wouldn't allow it to be translated into the vernacular when latin was the vernacular, so that's why it translated it into latin in the first place. And the idea that they were withholding the like they call it the dark ages, because the church wouldn't let the light of the world it's just so dumb people should read the summa and then tell me if this was the dark ages.

Speaker 1: 25:49

I remember when I read the summa people today can't read the summa because we are in the dark ages now.

Speaker 5: 25:54

No, exactly, exactly I. I, when I walked out of the uh the monastery last year after reading the summa cover to cover, I found this meme and it was so true, it was just a meme of saint thomas aquinas looking very smug and he just said, like it was like after 1475, all the philosophy has gone downhill. People are only obsessed now with like gluttony, pornography and communism and drugs. I was like it's so true. Like people like today, we are literally enslaved to the darkness but we think we're enlightened, whereas Aquinas and the medievals are like we are poor. We go to the king of kings to get bread and look what the king gives them.

Speaker 3: 26:29

Yeah, what they call the dark ages was actually the spreading of christianity. It was like it's it's actually the light of the world spreading across the earth. The idea of that being the dark ages is it was really the baptism of of europe.

Speaker 1: 26:44

You know, you had, you had the franks, the saxons, the angles, um, eventually, you know, all the, all, the nordics, all baptized in what you, you know, what we call the Dark Ages.

Speaker 3: 26:55

Not just cheap shots here. It's just like we say it all the time like low IQ arguments Like you have to have absolutely no deeper thought into, like how does Christianity spread? Like it's I don't know. It's frustrating sometimes because you you want to give people the benefit of the doubt and you want, but like even I saw what James White tweeted about the Pope dedicating the year to our lady, Like he's dedicating the Jubilee to our lady. So he did kind of like a almost a consecration prayer that he put out and it went out on twitter and I just saw all the typical protestants lambasting it as idolatry. And it's like this is like the first good thing I've seen francis do in a while. I was happy about it, you know. And they just there's not a thought into what if, if even their theory is right that the roman catholic church created a new religion, what happens with the east? Why does the east hold the same theological positions as we do on mary and things like that?

Speaker 5: 27:59

so I know, nickel fight sacramentology, yeah, all kinds of stuff the protestants have to believe that

Speaker 3: 28:08

go ahead. No, the holy spirit did not guide the church and therefore christ promises are meaningless, or the holy spirit immediately led the church. Yeah, that's it's. It's pretty much it's it's. Christ promised the kingdom and instead of the kingdom, the, the body of the devil, came like. It's so diabolical what they think it's, an inversion, that Christ promises the kingdom of heaven and instead we got the kingdom of hell. And it's played Like. I don't. I don't know how anybody can hold that position.

Speaker 1: 28:39

It's, yeah. They don't realize that that the gospel was is the proclamation of the kingdom, which is the church. They think the gospel is a proclamation that they themselves, personally, were saved.

Speaker 6: 28:52

That's all they care about think about how.

Speaker 5: 28:53

So true, maybe like think about how blood. Do you guys know what this reference is? Right here? Yes, yeah, trail of blood. For people who don't know, essentially, in protestantism, there's two, as it says, revisionists of history. It's so true. There's two various theories. There's one theory which is like the, the luther calvin theory, which is that the you know the church starts off good, and then all these accretions get built up.

Speaker 5: 29:18

Yes, I use that term for me, marie. All these accretions get built up, and then, uh, you know, the church eventually has to be reformed. The trail of blood theory, though, is this theory made by what's called primitive baptists, which are are Baptists particularly?

Speaker 1: 29:31

in that we killed 50 million people in Europe.

Speaker 5: 29:33

Well, it's part of this, but it's even more ludicrous. It's this belief by primitive Baptists that the early church, that the Catholic church, starts off right. But the early church was always known by different names and they have very few writings and they were mostly underground until really the 17th century. The Baptists come forward. Now I believed this growing up. This is what I was taught. It is insane. Groups that these Protestants think were Christians include people like the Albigensians, the Dauntonists, People who deny the Trinity.

Speaker 1: 30:09

They deny all these major dogmas.

Speaker 5: 30:10

Deny the Trinity. They deny all these major dogmas. They say that the Albigensians said that the god of the Old Testament was this evil god they were Gnostics the Demiurge god and that Christ came to free us from the bad god of matter. Oh yeah, that sounds a lot like Baptists today, right? No, it doesn't.

Speaker 3: 30:30

And so it's an insane historical provision, and 99% of Protestants you come across today are Nestorians, like it's just a simple fact. None of them will say Mary is the mother of God. They actually they split Christ's divinity and his humanity. They don't have any Christology at all. It's, I don't know. All right, so let's go to the next clip, where james white is talking about calvin robinson yeah people, I'm serious.

Speaker 5: 30:57

They say it was the albigensians. I'm not making this stuff.

Speaker 3: 31:00

Just look up trail of blood online and you'll find all the weird cathars, daunt nests, paulus, like all kinds of insane groups circumcised, the crazy ones that wanted to be martyred I'll give them the waldensians, but they only go back to like 13, something that's not to the early church well, do you know why, at the end of every latin mass, we pray the first gospel again yes and we and we, we kneel at the word became flesh. It was to combat one of those heresy. I think it was the Cathars right.

Speaker 1: 31:37

Yeah, it was. It was kind of a Gallican thing that the whole church adopted to combat, uh, the Cathars, the Albigensian heresy.

Speaker 3: 31:46

Yeah, so that and that tradition stuck. So at the end of every latin mass, after everything's done, we we go back and we go through reading john one and we kneel at the word became flesh, to remind everybody of the incarnation yes, nick is right, the waltons, sam walton, notorious heretic yes, the anabaptists go back to the 300s, of course we actually did a show early on.

Speaker 1: 32:13

I I couldn't make it, I was gonna say don't say we, it was me and jason.

Speaker 3: 32:17

Well, I tried to jump on but it wasn't being robin jason about the anabaptists. The anabaptists were a wild group.

Speaker 1: 32:22

They were right after the reformation and martin luther even condemned them, and they wound up taking over this town in munster and it was real real mayhem wellhem was because they, they're really not protestants and like that, in like a strict sense they they really are earlier heretical, um, you know, kind of sect from more the waldensian and lollard sort of sort of heretics from centuries before. So yeah they're. Yeah, everyone hated them, and for good reasons.

Speaker 5: 32:52

They were nuts my favorite ab episodes from at least the old days before I would jump on was when anthony would be in his car and rob would like, notoriously, throw out anti-italian racism.

Speaker 3: 33:05

That was like our first clip to hit like over a thousand views.

Speaker 5: 33:08

That was a great clip.

Speaker 3: 33:09

I love it here we go again with rob's anti-italian discrimination bring back racist rob.

Speaker 5: 33:16

Bring back racist rob.

Speaker 2: 33:17

I want it the town italy's a fake state let's see what he says about calvin robinson now a lot of discussions are going on right now about this stuff online and that's why I'm getting notifications and stuff like that and it's it's uh, about this stuff online and that's why I'm getting notifications and stuff like that and it's distracting me. So I've seen a lot of argumentation To try to argue that Mary is co-mediatrix, her role as intercessor and stuff like that. I've never seen this. One May have missed it. It may not have just registered. I love that you're taking this so seriously, but I've never seen this one.

Speaker 6: 33:52

Um may have missed it. Made it up, it may not have. Just I love that you should have.

Speaker 2: 33:54

I don't know, but I'd never seen it, and when I did see that I almost responded to it. But it's a lot of stuff that would have been fun. I I don't, you know. You just have to let it pass there's. There was a day when I would have been up till three o'clock in the morning, um, you know, fighting all that stuff.

Speaker 2: 34:16

But you know you can't get him to take the bait One day. But what happened? What you saw on the screen Just a moment ago, which I'm sure Rich will put back up now that I'm mentioning it, um, but Calvin Robinson replied to that tweet by saying based and Mary pilled. Now he tends to do really short stuff, and the problem is, when you do really short stuff, then everybody wants to ask you what you mean by that, um, and you may or may not get a response.

Speaker 1: 34:58

But here is this fellow who tells a story, like a woman, dude, who, what, where, when, why? Just get to it. Why are we?

Speaker 2: 35:08

speaking at the Defeating Trash World conference with a bunch of Calvinists and I start looking through some of his stuff and I start realizing this guy hasn't. He is super ecumenical. He has moved from the Church of England to the Nordic Catholic Church, Sort of a Scandinavian old Catholic type thing. He's currently, I think, in Michigan and my understanding is the church that he is ministering in there is mixed, it's not fully Kind of like him Could have helped Associated with some of these groups.

Speaker 2: 35:59

I, I don't know. I do not claim to have expertise in all of the schismatic groups or less than full union groups or whatever what are or are not in submission to Rome for whatever reasons. This is tedious, I don't know. But he's in the United States now, real, but here he says this statement is based and Mary Pilled. Now a lot of us are like, okay, and so what?

Speaker 3: 36:43

I did go ahead and take that down what I did, is I um all right so we okay

Speaker 6: 36:45

just like a six minute clip.

Speaker 3: 36:46

But so what he did was? He then, uh, proceeded to ask calvin a bunch of questions and cal Calvin kind of just got fed up and was, like you know, calvin called Calvin historical Calvin. Calvin Robinson called Calvin a heretic and this sent James White on a rampage of well, this guy is speaking at this conference called Surviving Trash World or something, and it's basically run by Calvinists surviving trash world or something, and it's basically run by calvinists and it's about that that, um, that boniface option book.

Speaker 3: 37:21

I told you, oh, is that what it's about? Okay, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah, um, let me see so, all right. So calvin robbins, I put his tweet up. So, uh, does someone need to share your theology to fight alongside you? Uh, based on Mary Pill would be a good show. Yeah, does somebody need to share your theology to fight alongside you? For example, does one need to be reformed to engage in spiritual warfare?

Speaker 3: 37:45

I have been invited to speak at an event titled Christ is King how to Defeat Trash World, which I am looking forward to. I will be speaking with Christian nationalists about engaging in the culture wars, providing a British perspective to potentially warn our American cousins about some of the pitfalls we faced across the pond, hoping that they can avoid making the same mistakes. However, there has been a massive kickback from the Reformed camp over a Catholic Catholic in quotes he put with a small c being invited to speak. No, I am not in communion with Rome and, yes, I would recognize John Calvin's teachings as heretical. But it raises a good question how broad is the church? I know Roman Catholics who would say there is no salvation outside the church, the Roman Catholic church. I know Baptists who would say Catholics are not saved. I would say both arguments are problematic and do not leave enough room for God's grace.

Speaker 3: 38:31

However, the question remains can we see Christ in each other, despite major theological differences? Is affirming creeds, being baptized and believing in the gospel enough? If not, where do we draw the line? If the reform camp can only work with other reform types and Baptists can only work with other Baptists and Catholics can only work with other Catholics, surely that division in the body of Christ means we are extremely limited of us can defeat, defeat trash world on our own.

Speaker 3: 38:55

I'm gonna leave it at that and I'm going to say the difference in catholic and baptist and calvinist is the universality of catholicism versus any of those. Like all those other groups he's naming are very uh, whether america, like especially the people he's talking about, are very American Christian, like they don't extend beyond. There's no unity amongst them other than this idea that the church is just a body of like-minded believers. So then, when you start getting to the distinctions of what does it mean to be a like-minded believer, the whole thing falls apart. So I don't, I mean what would you guys say is the line for where we can work with one another in a secular sense, I would say.

Speaker 5: 39:43

Okay In a secular sense. Well, I would say, in a secular sense, definitely the issues of morality, because these are issues of the natural law that one could say okay, very clearly, you have to draw a line. I'll say something that's controversial, not for this audience, but just in general, I think, as an example, if your gender identity quote unquote does not match your biological sex, then that is a mental issue. I think, therefore, if a society accepts that, that's a social contagion that has to be cleared out and taken care of. Therefore, we need every able-bodied man, woman and child to fight against that social contagion. So in stuff like that abortion, homosexuality, pornography, all of that I think we can work together. When it comes to the greater issues, the first lesson in the baltimore catechism gives you the answer right, we know, we know how to love, know love and serve god from the catholic church which he established and therefore that is the avenue to get to god yeah, there's there's.

Speaker 3: 40:47

look, we're not supposed to worship at protestant services, right? You're not supposed to. Um, there's clearly lines. I'll see your mental issue. No, he's not wrong, you are real, I think. All right, let's see. I think trying to cancel Calvin Robinson is pretty weak and gay, but I also don't like when Protestants get invited and propped up as main speakers of Catholic events.

Speaker 1: 41:11

So I mean so yeah, if it's specifically a Calvinist event, then who cares if they cancel, quote, unquote someone who isn't a Calvinist, right. But if their goal is to defeat Trash World or whatever term they have for it, then yeah, because I don't see Calvin Robinson get All right.

Speaker 3: 41:33

So this thing gets deeper in that you start seeing people saying because this is a Christian nationalist conference, so they want to bring some form of Christian nationalism. Now they're saying it's got to be a Calvinist nationalism, which is preposterous. And there's, and some of them are saying we won't accept anybody who venerates Our Lady, things like that. This kind of gets back to the earlier discussion we were saying where when a culture actually has a proper understanding of their religion and the cult, they actually build everything towards that cult. So when we were in Italy, you see a culture that built everything toward God. So all of those statues are all stories from the Bible. They're all stories about the things we're supposed to look at as the higher good. These people can't even see a space for that. It's a very I don't know why I mentioned Italy. Get a drink, probably.

Speaker 5: 42:38

Is that a new term? Very, I don't know why I mentioned italy got a drink, probably. It's a very weird. It's definitely a very weird mentality, because I mean, now that you bring it up, since this is a like christian nationalist conference, half of historic protestant denominations very vehemently believe in separation of church and state and a few of them don't. So you can't really, in my mind, have a conference like that unless you have some type of like fundamental political grounding that you all agree on, like should the church be involved with society, like in a law, law sense, a legal sense, or should it not? So it's kind of.

Speaker 3: 43:08

It's kind of this all got heated up and calvin robinson blocked james white and now and now there's like this concerted effort I'm I'm watching them all kind of like jump in to go after them and they're trying to get them kicked off this thing. So, um, bobby says protestantism. Uh, protestants can't conserve anything. Their theology that they base their conservatism on is liberalism.

Speaker 3: 43:30

Yeah yeah, exactly I think that a previous conference this guy put together had james there. Now James Lindsay is one of the most problematic people I see currently. He's liberalism inevitably leads to wokeism. Like it's just the natural end of it. Leads to communism, no matter what. Like there's no, there's no way to put bound boundaries on it.

Speaker 5: 44:00

You know yeah, you can have. I think that's the. That's the issue is it's like I I had this conversation with someone not too long ago like the only way that one could try and I'm saying this to try to get people to benefit out, but just try to save liberalism is you have to flesh out that thesis in the Declaration of what does, what is nature's God and what are the rights entitled by nature's God. But if you don't flesh out whose nature's God is, then it all collapses. And that's the issue is that unless we say, okay, here's God, he made man this way and therefore we need to act this way, unless you have that system, it all falls apart so, um, all right, so we have calvin coming on in two weeks.

Speaker 3: 44:47

Uh, calvin robinson's coming on. He's, uh, we haven't booked for, uh, january 14th, I believe. Yeah, right, rob something like that yeah, I think, uh, yeah, he's not part of the woke right.

Speaker 3: 45:00

He's part of the walk according to james lindsey though I am woke right because I I'm catholic like he doesn't like any of the traditional catholic stuff going on and that's what he's kind of fighting against. All right, so we do have Calvin Robinson coming on in two weeks. Going forward, Rob and I are going to try and get more guests on. I told you guys that I reached out to Brian Holdsworth, so if there's any guests you guys like to see us try and get on, leave a comment, let us know.

Speaker 1: 45:33

At the end of the month. We have Connor Gallagher from TAM, the president of TAM, coming on oh cool To talk about parenting, so that should be a good one.

Speaker 3: 45:43

Yeah, that'll be a good one. I have a few guests in mind. But, yeah, leave some comments about who you guys want to get on. I would love to get Peugeot, and that's what we're going to actually go and speak about on the other side right now. Nick's got to fly, so I want to make sure we get to do that clip with him, so we're not going to do the full hour over here, we're going to jump over to Locals now. What a nice guy On Locals. We got a couple of Peugeot and Frad clips I want to play.

Speaker 1: 46:06

Oh yay, more Peugeot.

Speaker 3: 46:09

No, he's got a very interesting, interesting take on why he went orthodox instead of the fssp because his parents, like his dad, was originally a catholic and he's from montreal, so like the natural thing to do would be catholic. Yeah, so he talks about going to uh, checking out an fssp parish beforehand and he had some things to say about that and, ultimately, what made him go uh, orthodox.

Speaker 5: 46:38

Uh, we're going to try and do this. Yes, I want father isaac, so bad yeah, we're gonna work on that father isaac, I'd love to have father nicks back on, because do you guys want to leave it in the? Uh, the actual comments of this video. Giving us a comment helps us so much you guys like, actually like in the official video itself. Helps us so much you guys like, actually like in the official video itself. Helps us so much.

Speaker 1: 46:57

Promoted in the algorithm, but tell me like you want to please share it yeah, please, share it, please.

Speaker 5: 47:02

It helps us quite a lot, but I'm thinking it would be cool, at least one night, to have a full night, maybe like a two-hour stream just here on youtube where we specifically answer moral theology questions. That would be really fun. If you two get bored, I can host it, but I think that'd be fun just to have like. No, I, that'd be really fun. If you two get bored, I can host it, but I think that'd be fun Just to have like no, I think for sure, moral theology would be amazing.

Speaker 3: 47:22

Yeah, so don't leave the comments here. Guys, wait till the video's over and leave the comments on the comic, cause it does help in the like if they see a discussion going on in the comments and that it promotes the video.

Speaker 5: 47:32

So you guys can always help Gabby after hours. I'd love to talk to both of them. I'll get an SSPX priest on here and then we'll be really based.

Speaker 1: 47:42

And just so you know, I have completed my trad LARP and purchased a tweed sport coat, so now I can be a part of any big stream with someone like Bishop Williamson.

Speaker 5: 47:53

Let's go. You got the tweed coat.

Speaker 3: 47:57

All right stream with someone like bishop williamson. Let's go. You got the tweet code all right. One of one of the goals this year is going to be for me to ambush kevin james after mass and see if I could get him on here, but he doesn't seem to do any interviews like that one of the uh.

Speaker 1: 48:05

One of the other goals this year is to raise funds to bail anthony out of jail after that.

Speaker 3: 48:11

no wait, rob and I are actually talking about like doing a fundraiser for for something. So we're we'll, we'll talk to you guys about that when we have it a little more fleshed out. So, all right, we're going to go to the other side. We'll see you guys over. Oh, if you're not already subscribed to locals, it's very cheap five bucks a month. It helps me and Rob keep the lights on over here. And super chats we always love because that's how we pay Nick. So, if you guys, either of those are a great help to the show. So we will see you guys over on the other side. Take us out, rob.

Speaker 1: 48:41

I'm just going to kill it, adios. That's it Almost Getting it off of Twitter.

Speaker 5: 48:54

Okay, we have freedom of speech again, boys all right, we're on locals now I can say all my favorite words that anthony won't let me start the opening settle down nick you guys gotta let me play some stuff sometime. Man, I'm just saying nicks, I'm like, oh, we don't have an opening video for tonight.

Speaker 3: 49:11

Nicks, like you want something racist. I'm like nick. We have one black fan. I'd like video for tonight. Nick's like you want something racist. I'm like Nick, we have one black fan. I'd like to keep them.

Speaker 1: 49:18

What did I tell you, anthony? No, we're not allowed to keep them anymore. Yes Said a good line, I gotta log in.

Speaker 3: 49:26

I gotta log into locals. Yeah, let's say, because I would like to see the comment stream. You want to do the Monty Python clip? It's pretty funny.

Speaker 1: 49:36

Anything's got to be better than James White. That was pretty rough watching. That was terrible man. No, we don't have freedom of speech. My wife's watching.

Speaker 3: 49:47

Oh no, who cares. Never let your wife watch the show, you know that.

Speaker 1: 49:55

No, the rule is never that your wife watches the show. You know that.

Speaker 3: 49:57

No, the rule is never let your wife watch the show. She'll scream from upstairs if she's watching. Okay.

Speaker 6: 50:07

Look at them bloody Catholics filling the bloody world up with bloody people. They can't afford to bloody feed. What are we there, protestant and fiercely proud of it. Why do they have so many children? Because every time they have sexual intercourse they have to have a baby. But it's the same with us, harry. What do you mean? Well, I mean, we've got two children and we've had sexual intercourse twice. That's not the point. We could have it any time we wanted.

Speaker 6: 50:37

Really, oh, yes, and what's more, because we don't believe in all that papist claptrap, we can take precautions. What do you mean? Lock the door? No, no, I mean, because we are members of the Protestant Reformed Church, which successfully challenged the autocratic power of the papacy in the mid-16th century. We can wear little rubber devices to prevent issue. What do you mean? I could, if I wanted, have sexual intercourse with you. Oh, yes, harry, and by wearing a rubber sheath over my old fella, I could ensure that when I came off, you would not be impregnated. Oh, that's what being a Protestant's all about. That's why it's the church for me. That's why it's the church for anyone who respects the individual and the individual's right to decide for him or herself. When Martin Luther nailed his protest up to the church door in 1517, he may not have realized the full significance of what he was doing, but 400 years later, thanks to him, my dear I can wear whatever I want on my John Thomas I know the clip goes on a little longer.

Speaker 3: 51:38

That's where I cut it off, though but I just like the whole time.

Speaker 3: 51:41

Kids are still coming out of the catholic house it does kind of get to a point, though, where it's most. Almost all of the protestant protests come down to don't tell me what to do. Don't tell me what to do Like. Don't tell me what to do, Like I'm not going to submit to any church. I'm not going to let Rome tell me what to do when it's. I don't see how they don't understand where, if you won't submit to that authority, you're actually just saying you won't submit to God. It's just what it comes down to.

Speaker 5: 52:19

Yeah, no, I don't know how much you guys know about, like reformation history, but before luther was condemned, he had a debate where he went and fought, uh, like you know, in a scholastic debate, the great theologian uh, william eck or johann eck excuse me, johann eck, it was a german theologian they went to this college and they debated and eck destroyed him. He got him to this point where at the very end of the debate, he's just like do you believe that the pope has the right given by god to teach? And luther just goes off and this is where he like really starts to go off the rails. He just says, well, no, like, no, it is. It is, in my opinion, whatever contradicts my conscience. In my conscience, reading of the word of God is anathema and that's just really what it is.

Speaker 3: 52:59

You get that spirit after the council too right the primacy of conscience. And people misuse that and warp it all the time because they don't have properly formed consciences, because something can seem on the surface like it's the right thing to do. Especially, you know, especially because Christian teaching is in a way, with the love your neighbor and treat others as you want to be treated, that you could be tricked into thinking you're not supposed to call out certain moral evils because it's mean when in reality it's like your moral duty to correct the sinner to chastise the sinner is actually a work of mercy Exactly.

Speaker 3: 53:37

Alright, rob, let's do the Peugeot clip. There's two of them. Play the first one. I think I wrote which one's first right.

Speaker 5: 53:44

Next episode we should just do Peugeot and Jordan Peterson clips, just so Rob goes absolutely insane.

Speaker 1: 53:50

Rob loves them. Speaking of a man who doesn't want to be told what to do. Here we go.

Speaker 4: 53:59

Not so secret Hostility. Hold on, pause it real quick. What are we?

Speaker 3: 54:03

going to do if I actually get him as a guest.

Speaker 1: 54:05

I don't know, I'll be nice.

Speaker 3: 54:06

You better.

Speaker 5: 54:10

You can't be like. I don't like your voice.

Speaker 1: 54:13

I don't like his voice okay.

Speaker 3: 54:17

I want to get him on dude dude. I will have a really good conversation with him.

Speaker 4: 54:22

You know I'm too phlegmatic to actually not be nice to him not so secret hostility towards the french canadians, you know, because of the betrayal of them.

Speaker 1: 54:32

You're right, I do have a not so secret friend if hostility towards french canadians their own, okay, their own history, and so I'm like I don't know about, about that I mean I love, obviously I love, I love quebec, but I also have this like I'm just annoyed at how they and, and you know, the, the.

Speaker 4: 54:51

The thing is too, is that the, the, the revolution, the quiet revolution, like it wasn't just a, it wasn't a revolution, it was a betrayal, that is, it came from the church. It's like it was the clergy itself which had accepted these crazy kind of marxist style ideas and then started to integrate them into church, only to be surprised that people didn't want anything to do with it, just oh, but that they were just going to leave.

Speaker 4: 55:16

You know that it was, that was what in some ways, that sometimes I wonder if some of them secretly thought that that was normal, like a normal process of things. You know, it's like, well, we're modern now and moving towards modernity and we have to shepherd these people. It's such a shame, isn't it? So because of that, you know, I looked into Latin Christianity. I was interested, you know, I contacted people from the fraternity of St Peter and these kinds of people and, uh, it's just not. Much was going on, you know, and my, my experience with people from the fraternity is that they're very careful. It's very not for me, but for me, very harsh, not from me, but from everyone.

Speaker 2: 55:51

Very harsh.

Speaker 4: 55:52

Okay, but do you see that in some orthodoxy as well, they're very harsh and they have a desire for 19th century Catholicism. What's weird is when you the FSSP when you put-.

Speaker 3: 56:04

I think that's it for that clip.

Speaker 5: 56:07

FSSP man. They're on some shaky stuff with their constitution. I'm only going to say they're on some shaky ground. What do you mean? Well, really, so when you look at the fssp constitution and you look at how they like, what is the latin mass of them? The latin mass and all of the liturgical rites of 1962 are all their charism. But that whole idea of the missile being a charism, or the, the Latin mass speaks to me and it, you know, pastorally serves me and all that that is. That comes from John Paul II in 1984. And that's just what I call liturgical modernism. What it is is it's man who has his own religious sentiments, and my sentiment wants the Latin mass, your sentiment might want the Nova Soro, your sentiment might want the charismatic mass, et cetera, et cetera. That's all theological, relative or liturgical relativism, liturgical modernism. So they're on really shaky grounds as opposed to a traditional Catholic notion which is the missile. The traditional missile is part of the big T tradition to positive faith. It's not a charism like being charismatic as a charism to positive faith.

Speaker 1: 57:15

It's not a charism, like like being, you know, charismatic. It's a charism. It's why the fssp gives permission for the 55, whereas the ssp sspx doesn't, because the fssp is like, well, if that's, you know what you want, then, yeah, go ahead, do that. And the sspx is like, no, the last legit missile that was promulgated was the 62, so that's what we're going to do, whether or not it's better now or worse than the 55.

Speaker 5: 57:39

Yeah, they make the whole. And again, I say they, I just mean the Constitution, because I'm not saying everyone in the fraternity just for record. But the constitutions and the statements of the fraternity make the crisis seem as if it is liturgical preference, which I'm saying. If you look at the history of Catholic traditionalism 1970 to 1988, it's all. The new mass has doctrinal problems. It's blurring the faith. There's sacrilege going on. This is a different religion and then from 88 till now, because of Rome and because of Ratzinger, jp two, they've made the discussion into a well, this just pastorally serves people. That's ludicrous.

Speaker 3: 58:26

Yeah, I think that the fraternity probably did a lot of things to ensure their own survival right. Like you're saying, this is the Constitution. That's a problem. That doesn't mean the FSSP priests and hierarchy actually agree with all those things. They're mixed.

Speaker 5: 58:43

They're mixed In 2000,. There's the famous story of the 2000 seminarians where in the year 2000, the seminarians of the fraternity of St peter, rome had to crack down the.

Speaker 5: 58:58

There we go. The reason they came to rome and cracked and rome had to crack down on them was because they said the seminarian said our teachers have too much of a strict, exclusivist attachment to the tridentine right. So that's the problem. I mean again, I I love the work the fraternity does when it comes to, like, the pastoral needs of helping the faithful and getting the sacraments to them and catechism. I'm all pro that. But when it comes to the actual doctrinal issues of saying, hey, religious liberty is an error, humanism in his area, like this new mass, is an actual problem, they can't say anything officially um, I think you might see some issues come up if they start pushing the con celebration thing with the Novus Ordo.

Speaker 3: 59:39

You remember when they were pushing that, like every Easter, they want the fraternity to come in and con celebrate the Novus Ordo with their bishop and I think you'll start getting people going. I'm not willing to do that and that's where I think the fraternity is going to get into some trouble, depending how long francis lasts and depending on how strictly they enforce tc and stuff. Let's play the other pejorative clip, because he says something interesting here that I I kind of understood and I and me as a, just play it and I'll get into it catholicism.

Speaker 4: 1:00:14

What's weird is like when you um, when you put, when tradition comes to a crashing hold unnaturally, how do you pick it up? It's rough and it's also, and one of the issues, too, is that there were two issues like becoming catholic for me when I was, uh, protestant. One was the catholic church in que Quebec was running full speed towards my position, right, they're basically like doing everything they could to be as Protestant as possible, and so it's like, why would I jump like out of a boat into a boat that's coming in my direction? And then the other possibility was to become a Latin Catholic and then spend my life fighting a hierarchy. You know that I'm going to go into a church to become a rebel against that, and it's like, ah, all of this is just too much. And then you know, and then I fell in love with iconography and also read.

Speaker 4: 1:01:06

Vladimir Lasky's book on the mystical theology.

Speaker 3: 1:01:08

Like I understand what he's saying there right, like you're going to come into a church and you're going to become a traditional Catholic and now you're fighting against the very hierarchy that you're supposed to be submitting to, like me as a cradle.

Speaker 1: 1:01:21

I suppose if truth isn't your main concern, then that makes sense.

Speaker 3: 1:01:25

Well, for me, as a cradle Catholic, it's like this is my fight, like this is my fight. I have to fight for this because this is my home, where I kind of understand. I'm not saying he's right, I disagree completely, but I do understand somebody wanting to come into the church seeing that. Okay, well, tradition is an extremely important thing. But they're trying to rip the tradition out from under our freaking feet, like it's a scary time to be catholic man when you, especially when you fall in love with the tradition and the the freaking, the people who are supposed to be shepherding you and teaching you, that are ripping it away from you.

Speaker 5: 1:02:03

Yeah, he uh, matt uses a good line or ask a good question, he says, like, what do you do when the tradition is inorganically ripped out from under you or something like that. Um, and I would say, side note, matt, the way you restore tradition is by having a society priest on. You got to do that eventually. But in general, what I would say to that is I agree with you, anthony, it's a sympathy that we can have for Peugeot.

Speaker 5: 1:02:28

We understand emotionally and mentally where you're coming from and I would say that you're right, just because one sees a fight does not mean that therefore, it now removes the entire church. Because, as you said, rob, you said like, if you don't have any, you know desire for truth, I would say, yeah, if your angst is emotional and you're like I don't want drama, I don't want to go into being a rebel, et cetera, et cetera, is that really how you need to be operating, or should you be asking the question what is truth? Which church did Christ establish? What are the marks of this church? And even if this be an insane place, I'll jump into it if it's true. Well, not just that.

Speaker 3: 1:03:08

Do you feel like a rebel?

Speaker 5: 1:03:11

I do, but I don't. So I do in the sense that there are times in which I'm like, oh, what's kind of going on? Do I feel? Am I actually doing what's right? But then what helps me genuinely is the more I study our faith, the more I realize that the people in charge are rebels Because the Catholic faith even if, again, I could say this if I was not a Catholic, because the Catholic faith, even if, again, I could say this if I was not a Catholic the Catholic faith internally works where tradition is something that's passed down and the magisterium of today has to give deference to the magisterium of yesterday.

Speaker 5: 1:03:48

We can't just be making up stuff and changing stuff. All the time was not wrong on justification, or all religions lead to god, or we have catholic organizations, like catholic answers, where jimmy aiken's having this debate with james white and he says that he doesn't think protestants are teaching a false gospel. All I need to do is say brother, holy father, you're in error. Right, you're in error because you have to submit. I'm all for submission. You have to submit to pope saint pius the 10th. It's just not, just not. It's not Nick's reading, it's the plain. It's the plain reading.

Speaker 3: 1:04:17

Well, I'll tell you Okay. So I don't feel like a rebel, but I'm also fortunate in that I have a good parish. Yeah, that has a good liturgy, so I like it's like.

Speaker 1: 1:04:37

I get to just live my Catholic faith you know what I mean when I feel like Rob's in a very different boat because he wants to go. You definitely feel I don't feel like a rebel.

Speaker 1: 1:04:41

I'm made to feel like a rebel when I am, you know, praying the rosary out of Novus Ordo to try to ignore all the craziness going on, or you're made to feel like a rebel when you you're not only the only one to receive on the tongue, but I should say you're not only the only one to kneel and receive in the tongue, but you're also just the only one receiving on the tongue in general, like, and you look at like I'm sorry, I mean I, I gotta stop no, no, you're right.

Speaker 3: 1:05:11

You're right like you're you're made to look like you're doing something wrong, when all you're you're made to look like you're doing something wrong, when all you're trying to do is follow, like the, what you're supposed to do like my wife just put in the comments, she gets sick, so sick of the, the looks and glares for wearing a veil, for veiling and all you're trying to do like what, what?

Speaker 3: 1:05:28

what your wife is doing is not putting a show on and in some ways it's humiliating to be the only one doing it right, like you don't. Nobody wants to stand out, nobody wants to be like oh look at me, but you know, okay, if I'm going to submit to God, this is kind of a humbling thing to do, so I'm going to do it Like the last time I went to a Novus Ordo and I got to drop to my knees and receive on my knees. It's not an easy thing, mean, we did it when we went to rome. I went to novus ordo masses the whole time I was in rome. Now, luckily, nearly everybody we were there with did the same thing, so I wasn't the only one. But it's still an awkward thing when everybody's just going up and receiving us and you're made to feel like you're doing something out of place by kneeling and receiving under the. It's not, it's not a fair position that we've been put in it's.

Speaker 5: 1:06:15

Well, I'd say it's. It's not fair in the sense that you guys are right like that. The actual true roman right is, yeah, you get on your knees, you submit to god, etc. And you being like targeted is ridiculous. I mean, that's sinful for them. Just them like especially in your case, rob, where they're like looking at your wife and they're just like you know internally, oh, look at her, they're judging her, etc. But what I would say is that, again, really, when it comes down to it, you guys are out of place Because you have one religion and you're in a different room. That's a different religion, and that's the thing. Like, when you go and you read, for instance, work of Human Hands by Father Cicada, you go through the commentaries of these guys who wrote the New Mass. They were communists, they were modernists, they were Freemasons. So no wonder you feel out of place, because normally you'd feel out of place at a dinner table with that, did you?

Speaker 3: 1:07:09

guys see the sorry? Did you guys see the clip of Flanders with Bishop Schneider?

Speaker 5: 1:07:16

Yeah, and I commented on all of the pages, on every single page.

Speaker 3: 1:07:20

Because Flanders asked Bishop Schneider he's like you know. What would you say to the trads who say that you shouldn't go to a Novus Ordo?

Speaker 1: 1:07:29

And.

Speaker 3: 1:07:29

Bishop.

Speaker 1: 1:07:30

Schneider. Look, bishop Schneider, which is the answer he gave, is different than the answer he gave us.

Speaker 5: 1:07:36

Exactly I said in my comment for the record.

Speaker 5: 1:07:42

I think that Bishop Schneider is a saint Like. I state that for the record unequivocally. I think he is, but I respectfully disagree with him because the answer he gave is the liturgical modernism I'm talking about. Is the liturgical modernism I'm talking about? His answer when asked about this question was I celebrate every single day the new mass with reverence, with Latin, with kneeling ad orientum, etc. That's not what we're criticizing. We're saying you can do all of that, you can have your St John Cantius, latin, novus Ordo.

Speaker 3: 1:08:14

But if your intention is a different theology, then it doesn't matter. It's also he's describing the fricking unicorn that nobody really has access to Also like it's like okay like like.

Speaker 3: 1:08:24

I want to say to him like, oh, bishop Schneider, that's, that's very commendable that you do that, but for the average Catholic living out in Novus Ordo world, like it's just, that's just not what they're getting. And when we asked him he said well, I think you need to make the sacrifice and drive three hours, four hours, whatever it is. That is Me and my son. My son said it to me when we left Holy Innocence on Sunday. He goes why isn't that available to us close to home? Like, why is it that I can't just go to that, that I have to drive an hour and a half to go to freaking mass at a place that it stinks, it's not fun, like it's. I'm grateful that I have it because it's close enough, it's better than Rob's got. Like Rob, I really my heart goes out to you because that's a hike that you have to do and it's not easy.

Speaker 3: 1:09:17

When you got little ones, man, when you got little kids, like who the hell wants to sit in the car two and a half hours each way with the kid? It's a nightmare that it's. I do think everybody that makes that sacrifice, though, like you're building up treasure in heaven, especially if you don't complain about it If you do it joyfully and you just kind of suck it up, you make the best of it and you make that long drive and you just kind of do it and maybe use the time in the car like I always did. I would. I mean, I know Nick's probably not going to like this, but I would always listen to Father Mike homilies with the kids on the way because he's very relatable.

Speaker 5: 1:09:50

The kids liked it, like my daughters really liked him, oh yeah he's just he's, he's, he's a good homo I always just didn't like the fact that his sermons were like yeah, I just didn't like the fact that his sermons were like longer than the actual mass. That's what I always just found funny. It was like the longest part of the mass was his sermon.

Speaker 3: 1:10:07

He's got a heart for preaching well, that's what it is he's got, and he records his homilies and stuff, so he's he's got a heart for preaching Like he's he's he.

Speaker 3: 1:10:16

He went to all the Scott Hahn priest things and he, like he, does a good job of presenting the Catholic faith and he does it. He's got a little Protestant, like he does a series on things, you know, like he'll do a series. It's a very Protestant way of preaching but it's very Orthodox Catholic, don't don't get me wrong. He's got a couple of things where I definitely think he's off with his whole mutual submission thing. I really think mutual submission is it's like it's just, that's your novasorto.

Speaker 3: 1:10:46

It just doesn't work. Yeah, you're right, that is for me. The mutual submission stuff is how you react to the novasorto, for sure we all have our own novasorto it's just to me, it it actually leads to the idea that the, the lady, are on the same level as the hierarchy, and it it warps everything and it throws everything out of which is, which is exactly what the new mass is.

Speaker 5: 1:11:13

Sometime again I don't ask this very often, I was. I thought about this the other day sometime, if you guys want, I can come on the show like just on, like a week that we don't have a guest or there's not much going on, and I can give my like full-on scholarly but yet relatable, I guess presentation on the new mass, because it's like I'm writing a book on the subject that angelus press is in the dialogues with me currently about publishing, called the problem with the new mass I'm wanting to call it the nova sort of is a problem just because the youtube memory kennedy started that, michael, michael often is a problem.

Speaker 1: 1:11:44

And then we picked up on the colt kennedy started that I know.

Speaker 3: 1:11:46

I know michael, michael often is a problem. And then we picked up on uncle kennedy hall a problem I did.

Speaker 5: 1:11:51

Catholic answers is a problem. Yeah, no, it's all, it's all great, um, but yeah, no, I think it would just be interesting because, again, like I'm not just, I'm not like trying to be the the downer, like, oh, you have four kids, you go to the new mass. You're a horrible person. No, no, I just want people to understand, like they're like, do you guys know like who? You guys all know who? Luther is? Okay, cool, you know, bad guy, right, but do you guys know like what some of these guys who made your new mass believed and said about christ?

Speaker 3: 1:12:17

like poll has a question. Poll has a question. Who's more protestant, the uh. Schismatic orthodox or the typical novus ordo attendee?

Speaker 5: 1:12:30

oh, I would. That's a good question. I would say, I would say in a way your typical your typical novus ordo, because, um well, I guess in a formal sense I'd say the orthodox, because schism, formally speaking, is not disobedience toward the roman pontiff how about this?

Speaker 1: 1:12:50

who's less saved? Who's? No, that's not even the way to go with it what do you say?

Speaker 3: 1:12:54

what are you saying? Who has, who has, who has more protestant theology is what I think he's saying.

Speaker 1: 1:12:59

He's not like, like I don't think he's saying that, because I think that answer is pretty clearly enough.

Speaker 5: 1:13:04

Enough sort of yeah, well, if he's. If he's asking the question like who's more schismatic, I would say, strictly speaking, the orthodox because, is refusing to recognize the pope.

Speaker 5: 1:13:16

So it's not just I recognize you, but I disobey, it's, I don't even recognize you as my dad get out of here, yeah, whereas the novus, or at least gives lip service to that, but in the sense of who is more like Protestant? A thousand percent the new mass, because you can't get a. I mean if, if it's made by with Protestants for Protestants. They literally got every single mention of hell, of propitiatory sacrifice, like it's clear.

Speaker 3: 1:13:43

I have to give a prime example of what we're talking about, Rob. I'm going to send this to you. You have to bring this up. Example of what we're talking about, Rob. I'm going to send this to you. You have to bring this up. This is a priest who follows me.

Speaker 1: 1:13:53

I know what you're going to send me.

Speaker 3: 1:13:55

This is a priest who follows me and he was in conversation in one of my threads about baptism and Rob, I have to go get something real quick, bring this tweet up and then I have to get this book real quick.

Speaker 5: 1:14:08

I'll be right back all right, let's see here. Father holtz, is it your opinion that I'm not born again?

Speaker 1: 1:14:17

uh, dm3 we'll just say protestant.

Speaker 5: 1:14:20

Oh, okay, that's the protestant. Okay, if you think water baptism is being born again I didn't need to use the quotation marks there then you are not born again, period, if you think. If you think I think, you are greatly deceived if, if you think so. Father holtz said if you think I think that, then you are great oh yeah, okay, uh, oh sorry, bad, oh sorry, bad boy, I forgot to ask you Okay, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1: 1:14:47

No yeah, no, okay, I forgot to ask if you think water baptism saved you. Did it. Father Holt says no.

Speaker 5: 1:15:01

So is Father Holt saying that water baptism doesn't, or what is he saying? Am I reading him right?

Speaker 1: 1:15:10

saying that water baptism doesn't, or what is he saying? Am I reading him right? Um so anthony of course didn't send the full context of the of what was said. Now he's muted too, so we can't hear he's out of focus.

Speaker 5: 1:15:19

He's out of focus and muted.

Speaker 1: 1:15:21

I might as well just kick him, I I don't mute you.

Speaker 3: 1:15:28

Okay, can you hear?

Speaker 1: 1:15:28

me.

Speaker 2: 1:15:29

There we go.

Speaker 3: 1:15:30

Why is my camera doing that? When I got up, I pulled my headphones out.

Speaker 5: 1:15:37

That'll do it? Why is it doing?

Speaker 3: 1:15:39

that that's so freaking annoying.

Speaker 5: 1:15:41

Anthony, is this priest saying that water it can't?

Speaker 1: 1:15:44

focus between the darkness Of your skin and your shirt.

Speaker 5: 1:15:48

Real, what happens when you're black? It can't focus between the darkness of your skin and your shirt Real.

Speaker 3: 1:15:51

What happens when you're black? There we go, hey there you go.

Speaker 1: 1:15:54

I'd say hold your hand up, but it's not wide enough.

Speaker 3: 1:15:56

So I got this book Wisdom of the Fathers and the whole beginning of the book is just on baptism. So okay, so this priest, bring that back up. So I actually called him out. Let me see if I can actually find the thread, because it was so ridiculous what he was saying.

Speaker 1: 1:16:20

Actually in full context, what he was saying was kind of right then.

Speaker 3: 1:16:24

Well wait, I want to actually find I'm going to send you something too, rob.

Speaker 1: 1:16:33

Because after this I'll show you guys something. While these two are sending me something, why doesn't everyone else just send me an email about a meetup in spring that I didn't even know was gonna happen?

Speaker 5: 1:16:41

you know how the show works. Rob it just. It is what it is guys.

Speaker 3: 1:16:44

I'm sorry, bill, okay, so here it is okay. So uh, I said to him, said please help me understand you here, father. I said you're a Catholic priest and you're telling a Protestant that water baptism isn't when you're born again, because that's essentially what he's saying there. He said is it your opinion that I have not been born again? The guy said if you think water baptism is being born again I didn't need to use a quotations ad then you are not born again, period. If you think that you are greatly deceived. And then the guy actually said I forgot to ask you do you think water baptism saved? You Did it. And he said no, we all did. Just read this. Okay.

Speaker 3: 1:17:24

So now Father Holt said I didn't say that. So I asked him why would you tell him that baptism? He said I didn't say that. I believe that water baptism is when we are born again. But it isn't just the act of baptism, it must be accompanied by grace and faith. People who just go up and get water baptized because they think that's what all of their friends are doing and or that they don't have to live a christian life, only get baptized and are not receiving the sacrament of baptism validly, now, I don't know about that I would, I would agree with them.

Speaker 5: 1:17:57

Actually, that all sounded. That all sounded good because, like, strictly speaking, yeah, like, if you are, don't have the intention to like even receive baptism, and you're just in this line, you get baptized, you receive the indelible mark, but no grace.

Speaker 3: 1:18:13

Okay, but let me explain to you what it was really. In my opinion, it was happening here. He's talking to a Protestant and trying to be ecumenical and he's conceding things that he doesn't even. That is not like nobody mentioned anything about somebody.

Speaker 1: 1:18:28

He wasn't going to explain all that to the protestant and like nobody said anything about that.

Speaker 3: 1:18:33

Like in reality, you get your child baptized because that is how your child is brought into the family of god. That is when they receive the father's name and they are. They are saved in this, in the, in the initial sense. Right now, of course, you can lose that salvation, but that's not what this person said. Like the, the idea that we are not, that. That isn't like. That is the ordinary means of how your salvation begins. That is how you begin it.

Speaker 3: 1:19:02

So yeah, this idea that we're going. Who's more, more Protestant? I mean, this is a Catholic priest. He's 76 years old, he was a priest during the revolution. I mean this is the kind of problematic stuff you see in the Novus Ordo that I don't think you'd ever see an Orthodox priest concede. No, I agree.

Speaker 3: 1:19:21

In any real sense of the term. Like it's just he just wouldn't't do it and it's the because this whole show has been about ecumenism with with calvin robinson and stuff too. It's like so we're gonna have calvin on and the reason I want to have calvin on, like I, I, I like calvin robinson right. Like I, I really like him. He's got very catholic theology. I don't know, yeah, I don't know. I, I don't know if he's just off in the authority area I want to poke into the ology is trash yes, ecclesiology is a little little off, um, but to me like essentially.

Speaker 3: 1:20:02

Yes, I think it's the same reason. I like the orthodox, like there's something about about unity in that if somebody has love for Our Lady, I just see it as a little bit different.

Speaker 1: 1:20:14

There's no unity there.

Speaker 3: 1:20:16

No, I'm not saying there is, I'm just saying to me. That's why I'm a little less. I don't argue with the Orthodox online like I do with the Protestants. Protestantism is a straight-up different religion. It is not Christianity. It's some Ouija board. Biblical people literally make up whatever they want to fit their own thing. Where I at least see a real theology in the Orthodox, even though we disagree on specific points With Calvin Robinsoninson. He's not a roman catholic priest, but he he speaks as a catholic does in most cases. So if there's some slight things we're off on, that's something we could talk about, you know yeah, ecclesiology is essentially a very important subject.

Speaker 5: 1:21:01

That was completely gutted post-council. Um, if you can rob, pull up this, uh, this photo I sent you so for a little context. I like going and making holy hour at this really beautiful german parish that's near me and, uh, it's a nova sort of parish that obviously don't go to it, but I uh, there, there's these pew missiles right that are in the front you guys have probably all seen these in your nova sort of parishes everywhere. Yeah, exactly, and uh, can you zoom in at all any at all?

Speaker 3: 1:21:26

rob or our fellow christians. Guidelines for our fellow christians yeah, so.

Speaker 5: 1:21:31

so there was so many heresies in this, but again, this is put out by the diocese and, like your average church, so under fellow christians, I'll list the heresies for you. It says this under communion, we welcome our fellow christians and all right, we're already in heretical territory to the celebration of the Eucharist as our brothers and sisters. And again we pray that our common baptism and action of the Holy Spirit in this Eucharist will draw us closer to one another and being this and will dispel the sad divisions which separate us. So uncommon baptism. Again, we pray that this will lessen and this is a huge problem right here and finally disappear, in keeping with Christ's prayer that we may all be one.

Speaker 1: 1:22:08

Those divisions are a good thing if they disagree with us Major error, yeah, major error.

Speaker 5: 1:22:15

And so then of course you know it basically just goes into this is what we believe. And then it says under the second, that second paragraph, it says all these other Christian communions, these here in Church of the East Orthodox, yada, yada, yada, in certain circumstances can receive communion that was forbidden in the 1917 Code of Canon Law, except in 1983 Code. Okay, what's my whole point with all this? When we look at this section, it has three major heresies. Number one that we're all Christians. Pius XII is explicitly clear that the only true Christian is Roman, because Roman is one of the marks of the church. It's kind of the forgotten mark of the church. Two, when it says that we may all be one, pius XI and Mortali Animos on other denominations, it's clear that that prayer of our Lord is fulfilled in the deposit of faith in the Roman Catholic Church alone. So that's already.

Speaker 3: 1:23:07

And then, of course, the reason Roman is a Mark has to do with the whole. Well, it has to do with Peter and it has to do with the prophecy in Daniel At the, the, the, the, the last kingdom in the, in the dream of Nebuchadnezzar, and that that kingdom will, will turn, we'll cover the whole earth like it. That the thing is. Um christendom, as the church originally envisioned, it saw it as one kingdom and destroying the pagan gods, right, destroying this pagan god.

Speaker 5: 1:23:42

Speaking of pagan gods, rob, look at this last, the last line, one of the last lines. It's under the section let's see here uh, for non-christians, look under non-christians, uh, in this. Look what it says we welcome you to this celebration who do not share our faith in jesus christ. While we cannot admit them to holy communion, we ask them to offer their prayers for peace and the unity of the human family. No freemasonry and idolatry 1996, that's not francis but yeah, because this crap has been going on way before him yeah it's francis is just the the most up-to-date version of the modernism we've been experiencing in the church since the council.

Speaker 5: 1:24:21

my whole point with this is that this missalette, as rob you said, it's in the pew of like every single church in the united States and probably more, and there's so many heresies on page one.

Speaker 3: 1:24:33

Nick, this is why I took my kids out of catechism.

Speaker 5: 1:24:37

Yeah, I would never.

Speaker 3: 1:24:38

I wouldn't let my kids go to the diocese diocesan catechism, because the things they were saying about the, the, the body of Christ as the church, like, who was in the church? People of goodwill and people of the like they were trying to say Muslims and Jews were part of the church because they were of goodwill and Protestants.

Speaker 5: 1:24:58

And I'm like what the hell? It makes sense because, again, like the council's, whole notion of the church of Christ subsists in the Catholic church. And then there's all these elements outside. You know, they all have baptism, they had the Bible, and at least these other religions they accept like a monotheistic God. You know, the Jews have the Torah, so therefore they must be somehow part of this one great church. It's horrible, it's horrible.

Speaker 3: 1:25:24

Yeah, I'm going to agree with Bobby on this. He said I view the Orthodox as schismatic Christians. I view the Protestants as heretics pretending to be Christian.

Speaker 5: 1:25:32

Well, I would say that the Orthodox, again, I would say again, don't give them a pass. You can give them a pass in the sense that, yes, I'm glad that you don't desecrate Our Lady, though you do say she was born with original sin, so you don't do it as much.

Speaker 5: 1:25:49

Their view of original sin is different than ours too, exactly, but I would say no, they're not Christians. Because, again, to be a Christian is to be a Catholic. To be a Catholic is you accept everything the church teaches, you participate in the sacraments of the church and then, three, you recognize the Roman pontiff and the bishops in union with him. If you violate that third one, which the orthodox in their presupposition do, then you're not a christian and it's unpopular to say but again, this whole two lungs of the church that john paul ii created, where the orthodox are one lung, catholics are another one. That's just a version of pan-christianity that was condemned by mortality animos by pious the 11th yeah, that's man, ecumenism, satanic man, and it's in everything.

Speaker 3: 1:26:31

It's in everything man I know man it's like wow it's, it's a it's.

Speaker 5: 1:26:37

It's my mutual submission yeah although I hear you look at that, yeah, the like why does the church need to submit to these other religions? Like, like the fact that archbishop put it perfectly like you put christ on the same level as all these other deities and you say let's just all pray together. Like that's insane. You put the church, the spotless bride of christ, on the same level as the schismatics yeah, oh I.

Speaker 3: 1:27:04

I tweeted something from Alberto today. It is impossible for Protestantism to produce sanctity Like. It's not possible. You don't have the sacraments. You can't actually produce sanctity, virtue and maybe people changing their lives, like maybe giving some major sins up, but actual sanctity is impossible to come out of Protestantism. Which is why they have such a hard time with Our Lady, because they don't see, they haven't seen great miracles from saints.

Speaker 3: 1:27:40

They don't understand that holiness is that somebody has so much of the personality of Christ that they can actually bend the laws of nature in some ways, because they are so much like God. Right, and it's not a work of their own, it's that they have worked with grace in such a way that they can actually defy the laws of nature in some cases, healings and bilocating and, you know, levitating, things like that. Now they don't have anything like that in their tradition because their tradition is fake. So they to them, like for us, we see somebody like Padre Pio and we're like, yeah, obviously, right Now, if God gave gifts like that to Padre Pio, who lived in 1969, imagine the gifts he gave to St Joseph, imagine the gifts he gave to Our Lady, like it. My position is that St Paul had the stigmata Because St Paul says I forget what letter he says it in.

Speaker 5: 1:28:56

He says I bear the wounds of Christ in my body.

Speaker 3: 1:28:59

I bear in my body the wounds of Christ. Now that's not the same thing as saying I've been beaten. He's saying something very specific there. He's like I bear in my body the wound Let no one bother me because I bear in my body the wounds of Christ. Now, if you actually read that in the Latin it's I bear in my body the stigmata of Christ. Obviously we took that word over time and had it mean something else, but I truly believe St Paul was a stigmatist because he, I think he was the first one. I just do, I just I think in my whole heart like that, st Paul was the first stigmatist.

Speaker 5: 1:29:34

Yeah, I, that's a. It's a. I've thought about that as well. I've never really talked about it a lot, but you remind me, anthony, of yesterday. I was reading, so I'm doing my Marian consecration.

Speaker 5: 1:29:49

I think that, like we can't downplay just how much reverence and devotion we need to have for our lady to be saved. It's it's what saint alphonsus calls. It's morally necessary to be saved, to have devotion for our lady. But one of the things he brings that that's louis de montfort brings up in this section is he says something to the effect of like, how old are you? So we can all think of how old we are right now. And he says there is a person who's been canonized, who died at your age. Look at their life. We can look in their life and use their life as a comparison and say, okay, this person lived 26 years. How good are you doing, right? You? You can't get up to heaven and be like, oh, I only had so many years on earth, I didn't have enough time to be a saint. This person had the same amount of time as you did, yet they became a saint. Or look at some of these other ones out st aloysius gonzaga dies at 23. All these nuns.

Speaker 1: 1:30:34

No, no, no, no, I knew it he knew it was coming up.

Speaker 5: 1:30:42

I actually did to be fair, I did read a little bit more about his life. They hype him up. My whole point is just this If someone is going to say, oh, I didn't have enough time, or yada, yada, yada, god gives you all the time you need to be saved and the grace, become a saint. Yeah, and the grace. So, therefore, why aren't we preaching that? And we're preaching all religions lead to god. Like that's evil. That's just straight up evil. Who wins at that? That's literally just the tower of babel. Let's all come together, let's all speak the same language and we'll all be fine, as opposed to saying like, no, like, christ is king, mary is our queen, you can be saved, but it's through the Roman Catholic Church alone.

Speaker 3: 1:31:32

Did you?

Speaker 3: 1:31:33

okay so one quick thing before we go, because we're going to go. But did you know? There's early icons in the church that show Christ in the cave being born because I just saw this dealing with Christmas but there's an icon where St Joseph is outside the cave, because obviously back then now we're all used to the husband being in the delivery room, but that's never been the case in history. But St Joseph is outside the cave being tempted by the devil. Oh, I haven't seen this. A, it's a. It's a really, really interesting icon where saint joseph is outside the cave being tempted by the devil with like, the thoughts of like. Is this really happening? Like, is god?

Speaker 3: 1:32:21

what's going on, you know like is there really a child coming from a virgin right now, you know like where? I? I think like catholic piety would make you think that that's impossible, you know, but like it's a, it's a very early icon in the church and it's an interesting one to me, yeah, especially given given the the daily wire controversy, where saint joseph j is like wait a minute, what? And everybody was like that's blasphemy. It's like, I think, catholic piety always. I think we forget that the saints are human a little bit. And I'm not saying it's appropriate, I'm just saying like I think it's look if Christ was tempted before going into the desert.

Speaker 5: 1:33:04

I think that it's totally acceptable to think that St Joseph was tempted. Yeah, exactly, the book the Imitation of Christ has this beautiful line. I think it's in chapter 18 or 25, one of those two. But the author says you know who you are in temptation Like. Your truest self is revealed in temptation. Temptation is not a sin, as you said, because our Lord is tempted. So we should rather glory in the fact that saint joseph is being tempted but refuses those temptations those temptations yeah because that's, that's virtue, this whole idea of just like I'm just never tempted, I'm perfectly yeah, that's that.

Speaker 3: 1:33:40

That means you're not a saint. That's like, yeah, like you're.

Speaker 5: 1:33:42

so you're saying you're better than Christ.

Speaker 3: 1:33:44

Yeah Well look, there's an aspect of especially when I first had my conversion like God will remove some temptations for you, because it's part of the um, the consolations you get right. Like God will give you consolations and some of those might be removing certain temptations, um, but they do come back later on and then you you have to face them and if you don't handle them properly, like's kind of where the iron sharpens iron thing where you have to be able to go through those temptations and not give in to them.

Speaker 5: 1:34:16

Exactly. That's what the spiritual authors say in ascetical theology. They'll be like you make it out, finally, through great generosity and charity towards Christ. You make it out of the purgative way. You hit the illuminative path. You're going to all of a sudden be tempted with these crazy sins that you thought you were free from, but they just come back insanely.

Speaker 3: 1:34:34

Well, bobby said what was revealed in him being tempted was literally the terror of demons. So maybe that's where we get that title, because he was so firm in his resistance to it. Interesting, yeah, this was a good show, man, I love when we have a topic we're talking about but it sidetracks into theology a bit and stuff like that. Yeah, we're getting convos, all right, so we'll be back on Tuesday. I don't know what we're going to talk about yet. I'm going to see if I can get some guests lined up though we got to get some, that seems. Know what we're going to talk about yet. I'm going to see if I can get some uh, some guests lined up, though. We got to get. We got to get some, that seems to be what people enjoy is when we get.

Speaker 5: 1:35:12

I want to get fred back on just one time because I just want to be like hey, buddy, it's been five years since we were on a show together and I've changed a lot since then.

Speaker 4: 1:35:20

So I have questions for you.

Speaker 1: 1:35:22

That's why you will not be on a fred probably Exactly, I'm too spicy for Fred.

Speaker 5: 1:35:28

I love Fred as a person, right, he's a brother in Christ, but yeah, I'm probably too spicy for that show. But if you have an Orthodox person on there, really I mean, I know he's a bigger name than me, but if you're wanting at least intellectual consistency, if you have Orthodox on if you have people like.

Speaker 1: 1:35:50

Peterson, who's just kind of the theistic. I don't see why you wouldn't have a like a flaming trat on the interesting thing about certain just, do you guys want racism?

Speaker 3: 1:35:54

yeah, exactly, exactly some of the guys that I like, if I like, I said my apology to matt on twitter and I started getting blowback from people. It's like why do you?

Speaker 1: 1:36:04

even want to talk to him.

Speaker 3: 1:36:05

It's like I dude, I don't know what people want. Man like I don't.

Speaker 5: 1:36:09

I think, no matter who, you talk to people are going to be mad that you're talking to them and it's like you can disagree with people like intellectually like I do but I don't think you, unless they're actually going to a place of like really bad stuff, you don't need to make them an enemy, right, and I think I think that's it's very, I mean not to be mean to the females out in the audience, but it's very womanish just to be like, oh well, he disagreed with me, therefore cut him off. I don't like him ever again.

Speaker 3: 1:36:34

That's how I feel about it. Yeah, and it's just like, really, though, like can I just disagree of the day we shake hands, people say nick fuentes, get fuentes on.

Speaker 5: 1:36:49

But I think rob and nick kind of solidified, that's not gonna happen I again, I don't have any ill will toward him, but uh, yeah, I'd like for him to uh examine those passages of scripture where it talks about blessings and curses coming from the same mouth. This should not be so, dear brethren um, all right, yeah, uh.

Speaker 3: 1:37:06

No, I talked. We actually talked to uh ferris from how to be christian. I talked to him today. He dm'd me oh really yeah, I asked because I thought he might want to come on tonight because he has a history with james white. So I'm like, hey, man, you want to come on tonight? Like shoot me a dm. And he said so.

Speaker 1: 1:37:21

He said he replied no, I'm trying to be legit with my channel.

Speaker 3: 1:37:25

Oh, something close to that. Trying to be respectable Said hey, anthony, thank you for the invite. I haven't taken up anyone on invites for live discussions. When it comes to talking about Christian topics, I prefer scripted videos to help prevent saying something incorrectly or in a confusing way. I'll keep you in mind if there's ever a scripted content that we could work together on. Thank you and happy new year that we could work together on.

Speaker 5: 1:37:46

Thank you and Happy New.

Speaker 3: 1:37:47

Year, I said, yes, our show is very informal. It would be just a way for us to get to know each other. I completely understand why you feel that way, though I've shot my mouth off and gotten myself into trouble several times.

Speaker 1: 1:37:59

Several times, that's just in the last two weeks.

Speaker 3: 1:38:02

He seems like a really good dude. Dude we're very controversial. I mean, look, he seems like a really good dude. He's just Dude. We're Come on, we're very controversial. I mean, look, there's pluses and minuses to doing what we do, in that it gets us attention and people talk about us, but it also makes people a little weary.

Speaker 1: 1:38:18

That's a minus, by the way.

Speaker 3: 1:38:21

No, because it helps the show grow, but it gets people a little weary about coming on with us because we're a bit I'm a bit of a firebrand.

Speaker 1: 1:38:28

So yeah, people are asking to get uh daniel o'connor on for ufos guys. I talked to daniel.

Speaker 3: 1:38:35

He's got a lot going on right now, but, yeah, I would like to get him back on too but you know we do that and then, uh, father mosley's not gonna be happy. That's what I mean though right, like there's always. You talk to this guy, this one's made, he's like that guy, this one's I. I hate dude. I want to just be friends with everybody. Like I hate this whole click thing in catholic. We're supposed to be catholic, which means. All right, we have a disagreement, but are you kidding?

Speaker 1: 1:38:57

the franciscans, dominicans in, in, uh, jesuits would almost fight literal wars, that's true we can start a war.

Speaker 3: 1:39:05

That's a little heartening. I'm not that bad alright, let's wrap this one up. We'll be back on Tuesday. Guys have a good night adios y'all. Thank you.