2024 Year in Review with Anthony Stine and Joe McClane

2024 was a momentous year for the Church, shaped by significant events and cultural shifts that challenged traditional norms. The rejection of Fiducia Supplicans by African bishops underscored a critical reaffirmation of Catholic doctrine, while the rise of celebrity conversions signifies a longing for deeper spiritual roots amidst modernity's allure. As we navigate these complexities, the necessity for authentic dialogue and active participation in faith has never been more crucial.

• The impact of African bishops on global Church discussions 
• Celebrity conversions as reflections of deeper societal yearnings 
• The struggle between tradition and modernity within the faith 
• Addressing masculinity and leadership in Catholic families 
• The importance of open discussions about religion at the family level

Chapters

• 0:08 Church Leaders and Controversies in 2024
• 13:01 Navigating Traditions in Modern Catholicism
• 16:08 Celebrity Converts to Catholicism
• 26:02 Future of Catholicism Under Intensifying Challenges
• 40:13 Challenges Facing the Catholic Church
• 49:44 The Challenges of Seminarians' Journeys
• 1:01:13 Navigating Family Dynamics With Traditional Values
• 1:13:27 Navigating Emotional Dialogues in Catholicism
• 1:23:01 Constructing Vocations and Education
• 1:34:08 Planning for Future Family Life

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Sancte, sancte, amare morti decadas nos In taste for a world Where's down to earth. Yeah, now we're one and everything's been finished, cause you're all that you've known, that you've known yeah, we're gonna get dings with a copyright on that song that was funny live streams on you, actually for copyright.

Speaker 4: 1:18

Like they'll just pull the plug on the live stream, for god, yeah you got to keep it quick and short.

Speaker 2: 1:22

Hopefully we don't get banged on that, but that was this Protestant guy who made that freaking collage of things that I've said, trying to antagonize the Protestants on Twitter. What's going on with the chat tonight? Where is everybody?

Speaker 3: 1:41

I know everyone. There's nobody there.

Speaker 2: 1:44

What's going? On, it's pretty quiet so I've never seen it this quiet it is the day after christmas, right, it's the day after christmas yeah, my wife was like why are you doing a show? I'm like what do you mean?

Speaker 2: 1:55

because we run on anthony's schedule that's why it's because we blew off monday and here everybody is all right. There we go. People are popping it in there, here we go. Yeah, it's amazing, matt. You look very interestingly not like Matt Gaspers. What's going on? So Matt Gaspers is feeling a little under the weather, so, if you guys can keep him in your prayers, he just wasn't feeling up to doing it tonight, so I pulled. I pulled a, anthony, please come. And this poor guy he's up, he's works the most insane hours and I've been bugging him for a very long time to come on. But you do always come on for the 20, you know for the year wrap up show with us.

Speaker 5: 2:40

And I've come on before for other reasons, it's just and he's regretted it every time because of the schedule anyways.

Speaker 2: 2:51

Yeah, I tell you, man, you and Anthony and Joe are like a dynamic duo. Now. I watch you guys do stuff all the time together, but that's early in the morning so I guess it's a little more suitable to your schedule, right.

Speaker 4: 3:01

Ant. Generally, yeah, although I also run errands at insanely early times, because what better time to go grocery shopping or pick up things that you, you know, you know need, when you have the ability to do it other than like six in the morning, when there's literally only you and other weirdos who are early morning people at a store?

Speaker 2: 3:17

probably, actually, I'd be honest, yeah, um, all right, so we got I, I picked, I picked the 10 top stories of 2024. I figured that we could talk about um. Before we do that, um, you guys hit our merch store. My son made me this shirt for christmas. This is a christmas present. He made me two, made me a nice sweatshirt too. But, uh, we do have some wonderful uh items in the merch store. Uh, if you want to go, have you accepted Mary, as my personal mother and as your personal mother and intercessor? So yeah, if you guys want, go hit our merch store. And also, we do an after show on Locals. I don't think Anthony's going to make it to the after show. Not sure about Joe, but I got some family drama we can talk about over on Locals. Oh wonderful.

Speaker 4: 4:10

I might have pushed a little too hard this year. We'll see. How is that different than any other year, did you really not? Did you play? Uh, go go to christmas dinner with relatives and demand that they repent and come back to the church and kind of not far off, because there's a guy there's a guy on x earlier who tweeted about that and how he got basically disowned by his family on Christmas because he cared.

Speaker 2: 4:27

Yeah, there's a way to go about it, I guess, right.

Speaker 6: 4:31

They're done, that yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:35

That's interesting, all right. So I figured, I don't know if you want to start this by when the stories drop. Don't know if you want to start this by when the stories drop, but I think the biggest story starting off in 2024 was the bishops of africa rejecting fiducia supplicants. Right, like that's the. That's pretty much the. It's like weird to start the show with number one, but I don't think there's anything bigger in the church than that, right I mean fiducia supplicants came out in december of last year, but yeah, it's a.

Speaker 4: 5:04

The bigger problem was the mask off with that document, especially with the people who will literally lie to your face and say it doesn't say and endorses their relationships, when you can like find in the document that it clearly endorses their relationships, right?

Speaker 2: 5:21

yeah, catherine bennett checking in from the uk and it's, I think it's six hours ahead there, so she's up very late tonight. I don't know what she's thinking, but thank you for checking in, catherine. We had a Catherine on a couple a couple of days before I went to Italy. So, yeah, the fallout from fiducia supplicants was, it was. It was pretty interesting, though it was like he, because once he brought in um, uh, uh, what's his name? Kissy fernandez once he brought him in, it seemed to me like that whole thing. Uh, we were all worried about what was going to happen in the synod and he just dropped this bomb before the synod and then right after the synod ended with, just like, basically, statements from the church allowing these things, and then there wasn't much controversy from the synod itself because of it.

Speaker 4: 6:15

You should take a look. In the private chat I posted a link to something Lepanto Institute shared, but other people have been sharing it. Today Something was found that he wrote in the 90s talking about essentially he believes in universal salvation. Well, that's another. Yeah, and if you follow the links, it takes you to a PDF of a document in Spanish where he's saying this stuff I don't see the link.

Speaker 5: 6:38

It's in the private.

Speaker 4: 6:39

I put it in the private chat. Let me see if I can. You haven't seen it, Rob Mm. Private chat. Let me see if I can. You're not seeing it, Rob. Mm-hmm. Here.

Speaker 6: 6:47

I'll see if I can send it to you, anthony, yeah, I don't see it, you know what I think one of the best things that could come from that, or has come from that in my opinion, is it's like the cards are on the table. It's like there's no more shadows here. You know who the players are, you know where they stand on the issues, and I think even more of the average catholic is starting to go like I know, I'm like a modernist and all but college us.

Speaker 4: 7:09

they're out of the closet right now it's like even they are starting to question. You know words, by the way. What's that? They're out of the closet now. Nice choice of words that was good.

Speaker 6: 7:20

Yeah, exactly, it's a right. I'm using party words tonight. Yeah, I think it's a blessing. I think there were more bishops that were middle-of-the-road fence-sitting bishops that were like I've got to find a backbone now. What did I do with?

Speaker 4: 7:38

that thing.

Speaker 6: 7:38

I put it somewhere I can't remember. I'm going to have to find it because obviously things are getting spicy. And I can't remember. I'm going to have to find it because obviously things are getting spicy and I'm going to have to give an account for my life before the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, and I better figure out what side of the equation I'm on now before that happens. I feel like that moved the needle a little bit in the hearts of many bishops around the world and priests too. Well, we have seen several.

Speaker 2: 8:00

Net positive. We've seen several priests come out and say stuff and then we've seen maybe a few retired priests say stuff. But I was really hoping when strickland got axed that you would have seen more of a coming together around him like, and how unjust that whole scenario was, because he really did toe the line. He never came straight out and said francis is not the play, never did anything like that.

Speaker 2: 8:24

He really did toe the line the best he could great guy you know he hinted at some stuff, but he wasn't, he didn't pull a vegan, oh, you know it's not sure, didn't.

Speaker 6: 8:33

And I can tell you because I I've known strickland since he was a month senior, since he was before, before he was actually the actual bishop and I've had many opportunities to work with him and be in his presence or whatever, and I can tell you that there is a bishop in the state of Texas who absolutely adores and loves him. In fact, I had Bishop Strickland come in and be a keynote speaker at a big event that I was running in Houston several years ago, and this bishop has called me. Can I come? I'd like to be there. I really like him. Yeah, no problem, I'll give you a seat. You can sit up front, hang out with him, the whole thing. Where was that bishop? I'm not going to name his name, but where was that bishop when he got canned again one more time? Hmm, yeah, nowhere to be found. So I think that was, I think was very telling how the the world just sort of sat back and watched them do this to yet another, uh, innocent bishop. He wasn't the only one, of course.

Speaker 4: 9:24

There was a list of them and it's you're talking about the bishop bishops who refuse to stand up and say, hey, maybe, uh, this election isn't that hard of a choice. We have a candidate running who literally wants to reimpose roe and by reimpose roe we mean without restriction on the whole country and then they hemmed and hawed about false equivalencies. If it's something that obvious they can't stand up for, then sticking a knife in the ribs of one of their own brother bishops was not going to be any surprise at all. In fact, canning Strickland got the result they wanted.

Speaker 2: 10:03

Scared the crap out of everybody.

Speaker 4: 10:04

Yeah, and then it was reinforced by what they did to.

Speaker 2: 10:07

Burke. Yeah, Burke too. I forgot about that. I didn't even put that in the story.

Speaker 3: 10:12

Carter lost his apartment. They tossed him out of his apartment. He was practically homeless.

Speaker 6: 10:17

They tried to. They didn't ultimately do that, but they wanted to.

Speaker 3: 10:23

Oh, they wanted to. They were just basically like yeah, you're an old man, so, uh, you can go and live under the bridge in a trailer down by the river.

Speaker 3: 10:29

Yeah, what's what's insane about this whole scenario? Is that really? I mean, at the end of the day, whether it's this. What I found disappointing, um is, oftentimes the debate tends to go off with these bishops into the realm of is pope francis the pope not? I don't think people have to get that type of niche in speculative theology. I think that what they need to just do on a practical, pastoral level is just say hey guys, this stuff is legitimate modernism in the classical sense of the term. We are redefining theological categories, we're now redefining blessings, we're now redefining blessings, we're redefining this or that, et cetera. We don't have to be that complex. But we're not going to have that conversation, unfortunately, because too many people, at least in the context of the bishoprics, are the hireling talked about by our Lord in John 10, right, they work for money or positions of power, for convenience, and not for the salvation of souls positions of power for convenience and not for the salvation of souls.

Speaker 4: 11:28

Yeah, plus, father, it doesn't help either. That uh something father ripperger said. When you look at, virtually everybody today in the church is to some degree a modernist. We've all imbibed of it, and to some degree, yeah you don't believe that. What was the last time you tried to get your protestant neighbor to become catholic, thinking? Well, you know he loves Jesus, so it's okay. It's virtually. All of us are guilty of that to some degree.

Speaker 3: 11:49

Exactly, exactly. I get accused all the time whenever I'm citing Pope Pius XII and I'm like well, you know that according to the teaching of the church, it's not dogmatic, but it is on a lower theological grade that the only true Christian, in the proper sense of the term christian, is a catholic, and everyone freaks out. But then we live in this weird bizarro world where you see the ministers in the church say things like quote, unquote our protestant brothers and sisters in christ, we share a common baptism, etc. Etc. Etc. But then when it comes to like the setes or something like that, and again I'm not a sete. But when it comes to the setes or something like that, and again I'm not a sete. But when it comes to the setes, by just saying, well, they're rank schismatics, heretics, etc, etc. It's like they have a pre-conciliar category for the people they don't like and a post-conciliar category for those who were originally condemned. So is truth truth or is it now fluid?

Speaker 4: 12:41

That's what I like, when you see people treat the heretical, schismatic Orthodox better than the set of the Contists.

Speaker 3: 12:47

Oh yeah, the other lung of the people, it's a logical reasoning error, but Orthodox really deny dogmas of the faith.

Speaker 2: 12:53

I'm a little guilty of that, but not because of the set of the Contists position. It's because I think set of the Contists tend to be extremely annoying. The online ones. Just what are the orthodox, though?

Speaker 3: 13:04

Yeah well, yeah, yeah, you're right, this is coming from a guy this is yeah this is coming from a guy who is very annoying online.

Speaker 5: 13:14

We just saw a video of him being annoying, right at the beginning of the show.

Speaker 2: 13:21

Alright, nick gets line of the night. We gotta get Nick line of the night. You got to get Nick line of the night. Yes, I can be a little annoying online. No, it's just the. It's like anytime I've tried to engage with a sette, it's like they just start yelling Novus Ordo sect. It's like dude, you think I don't know what we're dealing with. Like I drive an hour plus to go to mass every Sunday. Like I know what we're dealing with.

Speaker 2: 13:45

An hour plus to go to mass every Sunday. Like I know what we're dealing with. It's I understand that the the mindset of the typical Novus Ordo priest. It's, it's rough. I mean, my one of my friends told me on Christmas he walked out of mass because of some of the things that were going on. It's like it's. It's a. It's a liturgical wasteland out there. There's hardly anywhere people could go to hear the actual Catholic faith, so people are stuck driving hours to go to a decent mass. It really does Part of what we're arguing for, like Catholicism online. You're arguing for a faith that is no longer presented by the hierarchy, so I'm arguing with Protestants for, like a bygone Catholicism that doesn't exist anymore.

Speaker 6: 14:27

Yeah, and it's bizarre how they can't seem to understand that. You know the majority of my radio audience, the side of my radio show, is Novus Ordo, suburban going Catholics, yeah, and one of the arguments that I will tend to present when I'm on the radio to those that haven't darkened the door of a traditional Latin Mass is you're talking about Catholics who want more and not less of the Catholic faith. How can you fault them for that? I understand. Maybe you don't understand where they're coming from because you've never been to a teal and you don't understand tradition. You're turned off by the Latin or Gregorian chant or what have you At the very least, try to relate to some degree. What have you, at the very least, try to try to relate to some degree? They want more and not less. Why would you fault anybody from that?

Speaker 6: 15:10

I think there's a, there's a common sense argument to be made for the tradition of the faith that isn't being made all that often to that crowd and instead I think what gets perpetuated is this us against them mentality which I don't think is helpful to the, to our ultimate cause, which is, you know, part of the story that we continue to see in 2024. We've seen it over the past many years, and that is that the trad wars amongst tribes, which is never very helpful, you know. I know vegano is on your list and I certainly think that plays into this. You know, we, the trad wars, the infighting between, uh, between each camp, isn't helpful to the cause. Um, and if we're ever going to, you know, win, win the hearts and minds of the novus or suburban catholic, which we ought to. Then, um, we need to figure that out. We need to figure it out fairly quickly, but we don't get along.

Speaker 4: 15:55

We're catholics, we, I'm surprised we're all in the same room right now, to be frank, I mean, you've got a guy paying, paying you a channel membership to call everybody on this panel a crypto seed. He's being sarcastic.

Speaker 2: 16:11

He's being sarcastic.

Speaker 3: 16:12

Inside jokes, inside jokes.

Speaker 2: 16:15

Well, that's because Jeremiah Bannister called me a crypto sette, so now everybody just calls me a crypto sette. But I'll say Ant, you do a good job of navigating, not getting caught up in trad wars. You're pretty good at maneuvering and I think your general rule is just don't talk about other Catholics ever.

Speaker 4: 16:35

I don't talk about other podcasters unless I have something positive to say or unless they do something incredibly stupid like earn the ire of Cardinal Zen, and that's yeah.

Speaker 5: 16:45

One day? Yeah, why wasn't that on the list?

Speaker 6: 16:49

Cardinal Zen should give an award out for 2024. Best Catholic Podcaster of the Year by Cardinal Zen.

Speaker 2: 16:53

Well, the thing is that is part of because I just read the top 10 things I could think of. But yes, cardinal Zen calling out Lofton definitely was 2024.

Speaker 5: 17:08

And it was hilarious that he did it. There should be a yearly biggest man with little beard award big man with a little beer.

Speaker 2: 17:15

But it is funny, the trads can kind of come together in their disdain for michael lofton. It's like if there's anything that we can do together.

Speaker 6: 17:24

Yeah, we should all get together and, instead of doing like we are the world, we should do like a rap for Michael Lofton. All of us, we should all do like a part of a rap song and then send it to him. This is a Christmas present.

Speaker 5: 17:35

He would just steal it and put it on his channel.

Speaker 4: 17:38

You wouldn't want to hear me rap anyway.

Speaker 2: 17:41

No, but what rob just said is a little inside reference because he stole something from enoch. Yeah, pulling it off as his own yeah why would?

Speaker 5: 17:53

you do something that dumb like that because he knew enoch wasn't going to say anything not publicly, at least he said it privately to me, which is basically the same thing it was two years ago.

Speaker 2: 18:04

Like you, waited a good two years to let yeah, that's true um all right, so so wait, let me just let me see what other stories we got. So you had a bunch of celebrity conversions this year. We had, uh, tammy peterson converted, candace owens converted. You have, uh, I don't know if he's definitely catholic, but you had russell right Now his wife is Catholic and Russell Brand's praying the rosary. It's bringing more attention to the faith. It does seem like there is almost a man. I don't know the right wording for it, but it does seem like people are so sick of modernity and how much the culture is going sideways that people are seeking something ancient to like, find stability, like, do you guys think that's that's the case?

Speaker 6: 18:55

I do find it interesting that so many celebrities are gravitating towards the catholic faith. For sure, I find that very, very fascinating. I just I pray for them that they'll keep coming on that journey, that they'll keep coming on that journey and they'll continue to pull that thread and and take it to its logical conclusion. I mean, there are certain catholic celebrities that are out there that you know they. Every time they they put ashes on their head at ash wednesday, it just goes viral and go great, goes crazy. It's like that's it's great. I mean that's wonderful, but have you seen the last movie you made? I mean you can take the boy out of south boston, but you can't take the south boston out of the boy. Apparently it's just like that.

Speaker 6: 19:32

It doesn't compute to me because I'm a convert to the faith and I knew, I knew the immediately after my conversion it was like I can't talk this way anymore, I can't act this way anymore, I can't treat people this way anymore, not because I, not because I was better, but because I knew that those actions were vile and and inappropriate and not not indicative of somebody who was, who was truly born again of water and spirit. Right, like it just doesn't make sense. But it seems like for a lot of these celebrities they haven't quite gotten to the point where they're prepared to to truly deal with the consequences of that conversion, which means you've got to kill your career. I don't think they're truly there yet, and I don't I'm not. I'm not necessarily condemning them for it, because I can understand how difficult that is, how hard, how much of a bitter pill that might be to swallow.

Speaker 2: 20:19

So I pray for them that they come to the point where they're prepared to truly kill the thing that has provided them mansions and a great lifestyle well, let me ask you this, joe, because this is a tricky spot that we might be in would you promote, would you do like a mark wahlberg interview, or promote one of his movies for him? What do you think you would? You would?

Speaker 6: 20:40

hold I would. I wouldn't promote his movies unless I really felt like it was a movie that I could I could promote. To be honest with you, I certainly can do that. I've interviewed his brother and you know, as a guy who's literally interviewed thousands of people over my career, like I used to chase, like these big names Cause I thought it'd be very interesting to talk to some, like you've talked to Mel Gibson. Like who doesn't have Mel Gibson on their hit list? If you're in a podcast like so you've reached, congratulations, you can retire. There's literally nothing else.

Speaker 5: 21:10

For the record, we do not have Mel Gibson on any hit list.

Speaker 2: 21:14

No, no but I will say this so look like no, but I will say this.

Speaker 6: 21:18

So look, once you hit like I'm not saying Mel Gibson's like this, I don't know, I've never interviewed him he's definitely on my hit list. Put it that way, jim Caviezel would be on my hit list.

Speaker 2: 21:28

He means people you want to interview.

Speaker 6: 21:31

Yeah, I know what he means. I've interviewed people that I really really, really wanted to talk to and afterwards I felt like want, want, want, want, like that. Why, why did I chase that? It was like the dumbest, boringest, lamest conversation ever, like. I feel like that's how it would end up with a mark walberg or or somebody along. I would. I would like to interview russell brand. I would like to, I'd like to have a conversation with him to see kind of where because he's a weird hippie bird I'm like dude, where are you at? Calm down, you settle down and breath, like let's talk about some things. I think that would be interesting. Mark walberg, I think, would be cliche and canned and not all that interesting. Again, I'm not condemning mark walberg. I pray that he comes further on that journey I think he's.

Speaker 4: 22:13

I'd rather have been james. Honestly, what's? That yeah I'd rather if of like, there you go, hollywood in good standing with hollywood people. It'd be kevin james, okay. So I want to know how, how he does it, because I saw I saw the ripper. He's a tlm guy, it looks like, and I saw kevin at midnight mass on christmas eve I saw kevin goes to my parish.

Speaker 2: 22:37

um, and he kind of scuttled out the door quickly when mass was over, but I'm hoping I realized you're the guy he's made that skit for.

Speaker 2: 22:46

Yeah. So like if I I have talked to him outside of mass before and I'm hoping the next time I see him I'm going to like hey, kev, I got an interesting little anecdote Like you made a video on your channel because of me. Little anecdote, like you made a video on your channel because of me, and it's because I he had an awkward encounter when I took my son to see scott han and kevin james was there with father ripperger and like half the cast from um the king of queens, like kevin, kevin james converted like half the cast of king of queens like I'm no joke, which is the main people on there, right, Like he's. So what happened was I had I at the beginning of the talk I saw Father Ripperger outside and I went up to Father Ripperger and I was like oh, hey, how you doing I'm a big fan, you know listening to your talks all the time, this and that.

Speaker 2: 23:37

So then at the end of the talk, I had listening to your talks all the time, this and that. So then at the end of the talk I had my son with me and I wanted to get a picture with my son with kevin james. But I saw I tell my son. I'm like let's sneak out a little early. They're gonna cut out early and I'm walking up to go and get a picture with kevin james and father ripperger thought I was coming up to get a picture with him anthony, it's sorry to interrupt for a second.

Speaker 4: 23:55

Yeah, coach p asked in the chat if neil mcdonough mcdonough mcdonough he is. He's a practicing catholic. I just looked at him.

Speaker 2: 24:03

I'd love to interview him, actually he was a band of brothers in every angel studios movie from band of brothers he's in homestead right now, which is a the new apocalyptic, oh yeah no, no, he's, he's the guy like he would. He never would, uh, kiss a girl in any roles. That he said. A good dude, I blocked Homestead on X.

Speaker 4: 24:22

I got tired of every third tweet being an ad for Homestead. It's Christmas and you're showing me this ad for this apocalyptic doomsday. No, I'm good.

Speaker 6: 24:31

I like Neil McDonough, though I do like him. You were talking about. Kevin James.

Speaker 2: 24:37

So you got ghosted, so I go up to get the picture with Kevin and Father Ripperger thought I wanted the picture with him. And I'm walking up and I'm like, I'm like, kev, you know what kind of dad would I be if I didn't get a picture with Paul Blart for my son, and Father Ripperger thought I was coming with a picture with him. I'm like, no, not you, and it was because of that encounter. So I'm hoping that anecdote will get me in to have like a conversation I used to chase father ripper down for an interview back in the day I've.

Speaker 6: 25:17

He said no to me three times so I kind of gave gave up ever interviewing Father Ripperger, and God love him, but yeah, I've never asked, I've never asked because he's so busy that I just I don't know, I kind of don't want to be the next guy just begging him for an interview.

Speaker 2: 25:35

I think if it'll come, it'll come naturally, maybe when he's promoting his next book. He's working on a tome on feminism right now, so maybe when he's going to promote that book we'll get a shot at him.

Speaker 4: 25:45

Is it a tome or is it just you know? Is it like E Michael Jones book length or every other page? Is him repeating what he said two pages previous?

Speaker 5: 25:53

Well, his book on psychology is like 900 pages, isn't it? Yeah?

Speaker 4: 26:01

That's a big book. The most interesting interview I've ever been part of was a friend of mine who left youtube years ago. He, uh, he and I, on his channel, interviewed bishop williamson and yeah, that was an interesting interview. Um, he's also a much nicer guy than you would actually expect somebody with his reputation and his tendency to say the, the thing that will get you canceled in polite society.

Speaker 2: 26:21

You know he he seems like he's just a lot older now, williamson, right like the last time I saw him in an interview, he just seems like he's just a little. A little. He's not as, not as sharp and quick as he. I mean, look, age hits all of us, right like we get older.

Speaker 2: 26:36

So I've heard that yeah, um all right, let's see what other stories we had. All right. So we went through lofton um, the vegan oex communication. Man, the vegan oex communication. We, I mean, we touched on it briefly, but the vegan oex communication was like the shot heard around the church because as much as strickland had its intended effect, the vegano excommunication had another. It was like a few things in a row. Then you heard about francis excommunicating a priest who spoke out about him not being the pope. It seems like francis was cleaning up shop, trying to get rid of all, of all of the um, the mouthy, the noisy people, giving him a hard time just to show he still is.

Speaker 4: 27:22

He needs a millennial or a zoomer in his orbit to let him know what the Streisand effect is, because the harder you try to clamp down on that accusation, the bigger, the more steam it picks up. And it's just picking up statements, that's all it is. I'm going to be reporting in the next couple days on yet another priest who just got excommunicated. I mean, it's a snowball, you can't stop it unless he ignores it.

Speaker 2: 27:48

So do you think we'll ever get man, because this has to lead into what do we think happens eventually? Do you think all of this stuff gets addressed after Francis is gone, like I think? I think we're all at the point now where, for the most part, 90 of faithful catholics who care about the faith are kind of just waiting around for this papacy to end, right like we're all just like all right there's nothing you can do about it, we're all just kind of laying in wait, like okay, we got to see what happens, next what?

Speaker 4: 28:15

are people going to do if pro Perolin or Cardinal Togli step out on that Logia after the next conclave?

Speaker 3: 28:22

It's round two.

Speaker 4: 28:24

It's round two, but worse, because he doesn't care one way or the other about the Latin mass. It was the people around him Go back to drinking whiskey again. Perolin is a true believer. He hates the TLM, he hates the old faith, he hates everything about it. I'm not as confident. People are like, oh, cardinal Pizzavala. I'm like, look, geopolitics will play a role in the next conclave. They will, they have before. And he's becoming pretty outspoken about stuff going on in the Holy Land.

Speaker 6: 28:56

Yeah, well, I think what would be interesting is if, if the conflict in the middle east takes it up a notch, if it goes to another level, someone like a piece of bala becomes even more important to the church, and I could see how cardinals would see that they'd be like oh, this is the biggest issue of our, of our immediate needs right now. He's a ball, is the guy in the front line. He knows these people, people, he knows what to do.

Speaker 2: 29:20

Let's put him in the seat for now, or he's the most vocal about the people of the Old Covenant, which makes it very difficult to make him, because he's seeing things on the ground that a lot of people, I mean let's face it like your average.

Speaker 4: 29:36

We're in the church of Nostra Aetate. Yeah, faces like your average. We are in the church of nostra tate.

Speaker 2: 29:40

Uh, yeah, yeah, that that's a that could stop look, the usccb just even this is a big story they just dropped that. They dropped a while I was in italy. They dropped a freaking uh letter condemning nick fuentes. Freaking, like teaming up with a Jewish advocacy group. Like how insane to me. That was so outrageous, like forget what you think about Fuentes, I don't care what your opinion of him is. The idea that the USCCB would team up with a Jewish propaganda outfit to come out and tell us what antisemitism is, like things like that. Like that was just so preposterous to me that I was. I was just so taken back by it.

Speaker 6: 30:21

My prediction is we are entering into an ultra Zionist phase, and that is that I believe this whole thing is going to ramp up to a greater intensity. For people like us who feel like we have to have candid conversations, it's going to get a lot harder to do that because you're going to be offered one of two camps you either 100 on this team or you're 100 against this team, and there'll be no middle ground allowed in the conversation. And I'm like, well, I guess that that's what it is, because I definitely ain't on that team and ain't on that team, so I choose this team and let the chips fall where they may, and it's just. It's just going to get a lot uglier and we're going now is that.

Speaker 2: 30:56

Is that apocalyptic, though isn't that apocalyptic at that point?

Speaker 6: 30:59

I think. Ultimately, how do you get there? How do you get to? It's like when saint paul talks in the thessalonians to the thessalonians how does the great apostasy, before the great man of perdition, can be even known? The great apostasy has to happen first. How do you get to a world in which the majority of all of your friends and family reject christ and accept the antichrist? That doesn't happen on a Tuesday at two o'clock. You got to get there. That takes time. You've got to position the world such that it's prepared and ready to accept that reality.

Speaker 6: 31:30

St Irenaeus in his Against Heresies he says the moment of the great apostasy is the actual worship of the Antichrist as a god in the temple in jerusalem, on the temple mount. How do you get to the point where you can build the temple mount and and even restart, uh, the whole animal worship, old covenant thing, let alone set himself up as a god there and get the jews and the muslims all on board with it? That obviously hasn't happened. You need time to make that happen. If they took the Temple Mount back today, what would it take? A year, two years minimum, to build that? You're in construction. You know, anthony, you guys never finished construction projects.

Speaker 6: 32:11

You know, you guys can't even build a highway, let alone a temple. But the Jews I hate to say it they actually have the building plans. They have all the priests already trained, they've got all of the utensils, they've got everything ready to go. They're prepared and ready. They just need the temple map. It's all they really need and they're going to be up in business.

Speaker 6: 32:29

My point is there's still time on the clock, but I believe we're entering into a phase and that's why I think there could be an intensification of the war in the Middle East which make a pizza ball more, more, uh, pizza ball more interesting to the, to these other cardinals. Not that I think he's like the best choice out there, but I could see him taking uh sort of a forerunner role. If that, if it plays out that way because we are going to be facing greater and greater difficulty when it comes to the things we're allowed to have conversations about, we're going to have to be much more careful. And it's not going to necessarily like I don't care what some 501c3 thinks about me personally, like they put me on some list as whatever, I don't care.

Speaker 6: 33:11

It's going to be friends, it's going to be family, it's going to be the parishioners. It's going to be my pastor. It's going to be my pastor. It's going to be people that I actually know and care about. They're the ones that are going to look at me and they're going to be the ones telling my kids that their dad is the evil one. You might as well have written Mein Kampf, part 2. That's what we're going to deal with, and I don't think most Catholics are really prepared for that. To be honest with you, I think it's going to be very intense in the coming years, whatever that is.

Speaker 2: 33:42

Okay. So I know, ant, you've said you think Francis II is next right?

Speaker 4: 33:48

It's either that or a moderate who will do absolutely nothing as a placeholder. You know they'll trot out some 79-year-old who will step out and say nice things, tamp the flames down. Try to placate the trads by loosening up the traditions a little bit, a little bit.

Speaker 4: 34:11

But noteworthily, none of the problem characters around him that are around Francis now will be kicked to the curb. They might get reassigned somewhere when their term's naturally in, but they will do nothing. It'll be an older guy who will do nothing Think John XXIII, something like that, because John XXIII is very moderate compared to, say, paul VI or Francis. My nightmare scenario is it'll be a relatively younger Francis type.

Speaker 2: 34:43

And 30 years of that five years.

Speaker 4: 34:45

Yeah, that's my nightmare. Or or total mask off with like a, with like a sleeper, like hollering, stepping out, because people always talk about the same 10 people. You know the even the college of Cardinals report. They just released talks about the same 10 people. You know even the College of Cardinals report. They just released talks about the same, mostly the same people everybody always talks about, but you forget about like organizational dynamics when it comes to these kind of things. You can go look at like political party elections for this, what people who know about the Roman Curia, what they talk about, how the power dynamics work since Vatican II, it's that the cardinals that they know the best are the ones that tend to get the votes and who are the ones they know the best, the ones in the Roman Curia and who are the highest profile cardinals in the Roman Curia in the aftermath of the synod on synodality Cardinal Holerich, Cardinal Gresh and a couple others Mueller, those of you who like Cardinal Mueller, even though Mueller was 10 years ago considered a liberal.

Speaker 4: 35:45

he was considered a liberal until things got too much for him. So you might if Cardinal Mueller somehow stepped out on that load. You know some people would follow their knees and thank God I'd be like, well, there's your moderate, and he's not a young man anymore either. He's pretty sure he's Cardinal Mueller. He's been around a long time. He's in his 70s. Yeah, so Cardinal Mueller is 76 years old. I know nothing about his family. His mom and dad may have lasted into their 90s, for all we know.

Speaker 5: 36:19

He turned 77 on the 31st this month also, that means in four years.

Speaker 4: 36:23

If francis makes it another um three years. It sounds like which is very possible then it which is, yeah, if francis makes it another three years, mueller can't participate in the next conclave, and there have been rumors floated that are going to change the rules of the conclave again to make it so you, that even retired cardinals, cannot participate at all in the conclave.

Speaker 4: 36:43

Even as assistants, they can't be in the room they can still be elected pope yeah, but the chances of an 80 year old getting elected unless, of course, you find a moderate who you just want to tamp down the fires yeah, a couple years like.

Speaker 2: 36:59

And have an intermediary.

Speaker 4: 37:03

I mean, I would love it. I would love it if, by some miracle, it was like Schneider stepped out, which would be unheard of.

Speaker 6: 37:08

Could you imagine? Oh man, it would take a miracle.

Speaker 4: 37:11

If it were, from an assistant bishop with no technical authority other than what comes with being. That would be amazing. No, that would take.

Speaker 2: 37:18

That would be amazing. No, that would take. The only way that happens is if there's another synod and the Mohammedans attack Rome and destroy all of them, and then he's the only option left.

Speaker 4: 37:30

The angelic pope of prophecy doesn't happen. This side of mushroom clouds, it doesn't.

Speaker 6: 37:35

Or some equivalent. Now I am running for Holy Roman Emperor and if I am elected I intend to meddle in the conclave as much as possible. So hopefully I can help bring about, through intrigue and political shenanigans, a proper pope. So we'll see.

Speaker 4: 37:56

I have a bloodline claim to the imperial throne of North America through the Stuart line Really the Stuart bastard, but still the Stuart line, and as such, when I seize power, my benevolent rule will be iron fisted, but I will help you as the Holy Roman Emperor.

Speaker 6: 38:11

Treat it. We're getting the band back together. It's going to be great.

Speaker 2: 38:16

See, I think if we get a Benedict theict the sixth, benedict the 17th in because that's a moderate. Yeah, because the progressives have had this mindset that they think the church is rolling in a very particular direction. If you get a benedict the 17th that comes in and tries to roll back the tc restrictions and then tries to bring back the hermeneutic of continuity, which has gone out the window on the franc, I think you're going to get a revolt from the progressives in the church and you might see schism.

Speaker 6: 38:44

I think we already have seen schism.

Speaker 4: 38:46

It's a de facto schism.

Speaker 2: 38:47

It's de facto. I think you'll see a real schism De jure Actual, canonical schism.

Speaker 6: 38:53

I don't know that we're going to get. I don't think we're gonna get. My personal take is I don't believe we're gonna get, uh, an ultra francis too. I think what we're gonna get is a go along to get along, which it might ultimately mean the same thing as a francis too, but I think we're gonna. We're gonna get somebody who doesn't have the stomach for all the controversy and the drama and is afraid of their shadow and doesn't want to upset people and just wants to make everybody happy and and they're going to be kind of milquetoast.

Speaker 6: 39:21

And and then the those that are in the curia that have been a part of the francis ii uh administration are just going to plow right through them and ultimately, isn't that a john the first, john paul the first, isn't like. It was kind of it was the same story there, at least father murthing, so. So I believe that's I think that's where we're headed far more likely to get to get a guy who's just middle of the road and hasn't found his backbone. But with a guy like that it's possible, because strickland was like that and he was the first to tell you that he was he. That's his whole priestly career and then they made him a bishop and he got scared and then he started to wake. It's possible you get a guy in the chair who comes from that background and they think, oh, he'll be okay, we can manipulate him, we can maneuver him any way we want, and then he decides crap. I'm going to go to hell forever if I don't stand up right now.

Speaker 4: 40:13

Do you know who the last pope was? That was like that Leo XIII. There you go, folks, the 9th, who has that reputation historically of being not one of the good ones, even though his writings are very orthodox. Uh, he was not looked upon fondly by a lot of people. Yeah, they put in a guy that thought was gonna be kind of a mealy-mouthed liberal type, who then looked around, saw what was going on and became leo the 13th that we now remember rather fondly possible so it is possible.

Speaker 6: 40:40

What is the?

Speaker 2: 40:40

game. For, yeah, I'm praying. I'm praying that the office itself infers a grace that brings a set of cojones to to the next pope.

Speaker 6: 40:52

You know a set of papal cojones that they give.

Speaker 4: 40:54

That's exactly what I almost wonder if that was donated in the Smithsonian along with the papal tiara.

Speaker 6: 41:04

Could you imagine the next guy? He's like you know what I'm not stepping out until I get the tiara here. Go get the tiara, but your holiness, it's a thousand miles away. I'm not stepping out until we get the tiara. Oh, and, by the way, you're all fired.

Speaker 4: 41:19

In that awful HBO show, the Young Pope. He refused to hold his first private meeting with the bishops until the papal tiara was brought in. And then they gave it to him and he wrote in on the thing where they had to carry him in. He had the tiara and sunglasses, which was aesthetically perfect, but it was. I cannot endorse that show because it is full of the typical hbo immorality, unfortunately, but yeah but, but the but, no, but the imagery.

Speaker 2: 41:46

But the imagery of a pope getting elected and saying we are bringing back all the pump of the papacy and we are going to enclose ourselves and we are not going to do flying around doing world youth days anymore, we are going to clean house and watch your subscriber count go down now that you just now that you just uh insulted world youth day.

Speaker 4: 42:08

Every time I point out that day has never been a thing that has gone over. Well that there's always been some sort of horrible thing that happens. People go. It's the best thing ever. Even though world youth day looks like young adult masses, really it's like it's like you ever if you've gone to a young adult mass and noticed that a young adult mass is full of parents bringing their desperate parents bringing their teenagers to mass to try to keep them in the church?

Speaker 2: 42:33

yes, yeah, I was one of those teenagers me and robert.

Speaker 4: 42:36

Me and rob both went through that yeah, and it was the teenagers looking dreadfully bored. Yes, at the acoustic guitar music. Oh look, they're playing hill song united music.

Speaker 5: 42:46

That's not good under any circumstances but absolutely not appropriate for the mass bunch of teenagers wondering where they can get the drugs that the speakers were talking about.

Speaker 3: 42:57

Yeah, well, you know, I think ultimately I've been thinking about how like so you're giving your, we're all giving our theories on what the next pontificate could potentially be like. I think there's one big like road barrier that has to be overcome if we're wanting to see any type of like, even semi-decent, pope, and it's going to have to be the road barrier of what set this whole thing off right for the last 60 years. Someone's to have to be the road barrier of what set this whole thing off for the last 60 years. Someone's going to have to open the, or tip open the golden calf in the church right now, and that's the Second Vatican Council. Someone's going to have to actually say, okay, we need to have a serious conversation about this, because the problem is, every time, like every time you study Catholic history, study Catholic statistics, catholic theology, everything stops right there and everything starts to go off the walls there. So someone's going to have to address that.

Speaker 3: 43:48

But here's why I'm ultimately concerned about the pontificate in the future, and I think this is why your position, stein, in my opinion, seems to be maybe the most logical. Although I'm hoping for your joe's ears at the end of the day, I'm hoping for yours, but I I understand stein. The reason is, I sometimes wonder are we like for lack of better words like traditionalist content creators in a bubble? Yeah, and what I mean by that is that when you look at hard data statistics, we see and I say this all the time on my show 95 of catholics quote unquote in america believe that contraception is okay, 54 believe abortions okay, 86 believes that homosexuality is okay. There's a pew research poll, uh, last year that said only 43 of hispanics in america consider themselves catholic, from 70% in 2010. That's a massive drop right there.

Speaker 5: 44:44

I'm not surprised by that at all.

Speaker 3: 44:46

Yeah, and so this is what I'm saying. So it's like, when we look at this massive bulk of those who are truly, in the theological sense, not Catholic but professing Catholics, are the bishops really going to, at the end of the day, be worried about us? And the reason I'm thinking no is because, sure, they freaked out with the whole blessing stuff all the africans did, because it's socially taboo in africa sure, but they're the same.

Speaker 4: 45:12

The same bishops are okay with with polyamory no, exactly exactly like they're.

Speaker 3: 45:17

All these bishops around the world aren't angry at what any Roman congregation 100 years ago would have already condemned, aside from just a small handful. And so my point is I'm saying I don't know if we will have a really good pope next, because ultimately, at the end of the day, do they really even think that they need to soothe the trads? Are we even that big of an issue to them? I don't know. I'm just throwing it out there. We are in a bubble.

Speaker 6: 45:44

Let us remember that the African bishops only rejected half of the big issue. Effiducius and pecans we don't tolerate any gay stuff here. Divorce and remarriage let's just not even talk about that.

Speaker 3: 45:56

Exactly.

Speaker 6: 45:57

Nobody talked about that document. They turned their cheek on that one hardcore, which is, you know. My big issue is the bishops seem to have sold marriage down the river, and when are they going to stand up and defend marriage? I mean, we just voted Donald Trump in office and he supports homosexual marriage all day long. He and his Catholic wife, so it's like listen, and I voted for him. By the way, his catholic wife, so it's like listen, and I voted for him. By the way. Uh, but we can. We have to stand up and say, great, you were the better of the two evil options we had. But it's time for you to get your act straight. It's time for you to come right with jesus right now, right here. No more shenanigans. And if someone asks me one more time do I want a theocracy?

Speaker 4: 46:34

the answer is yes, 100, I want I want a theocracy if I'm the one running it, and that's the problem. Amen, brother, you got my vote.

Speaker 6: 46:44

You're in charge. That's the problem. It's like we, you know, everybody's talking about the age of the laity. I don't believe in the age of the laity. I'm not an age of the laity guy.

Speaker 6: 46:54

I believe the age of the la he's old they're all really old role to play, but we're never going to change the world. It's not our mandate. That mandate belongs to the, to the bishops, which is why they have millstones judgment. If they don't get off the pot, they're going to be in real trouble. Now our job is to is to participate in that process, but we we aren't going to change the world without them. So until the bishops decide to stand up and defend truth, let the chips fall where they may.

Speaker 6: 47:22

If leveling a city in the Middle East is not the appropriate response to terrorist attacks, then they need to say so, because their soul depends on it. If not, allowing a distorted, perverted marriage in your neighborhood, in your society, in your city, in your country, it needs to be said, then you say it, even if they kill you. You know what I mean. It's not rocket science. They just need to do these things and not care what the world has to say about it. And if they did that, knuckleheads like all of us would love them for it and follow them, no matter how imperfect they would be. We would be happy to do so, but until they do, they're only going to get more criticisms.

Speaker 4: 48:01

Which is why I really love Cardinal Zen, because Cardinal Zen is not a deep theological thinker, but he's heading to the CCP. That buys him a lot of street cred.

Speaker 3: 48:10

My question for all of you, though, is this we oftentimes talk about like okay, if the bishops were to get their act together. I fully agree with all that, but here that presumes that the bishops are catholic to begin with, and that's that's my and the men that they keep elevating are.

Speaker 4: 48:25

They're not like yeah, exactly, and so the problem for me is that, like a couple years ago there was a guy with the james martin persuasion, will say, in italy, who came out and said that he estimated, based on the crowds that he runs in, that 80% of the cardinals and bishops were men like him.

Speaker 4: 48:45

That is even close to true, then you're not going to get a good pope. It's not possible. These are men who occupy offices, but how could they possibly be Catholic? And I don't mean because they have inclinations, and even if and then we're not talking about guys who imperfectly resist them, like we all have that one or two things that send us to confession I'm talking about people who celebrate sins that the Bible is pretty clear on.

Speaker 4: 49:12

That God got so angry about that. He wiped civilizations off the map multiple times in history over, and if our so-called elder brothers in the faith and their apocryphal writings are correct, then it was one of the key reasons that the flood happened.

Speaker 3: 49:27

Yeah, no, I fully agree. I want to address real quick this comment right here because this is something I think will be interesting for us to talk about. So more conservative, slash Orthodox priests are now being ordained. So there's this push out there and I'd be curious to hear what your guys's thoughts are. The saying and I and I I personally am against this, this, this narrative. I don't think that, because we see in statistics all these young guys, so I'm glad that they're discerning priesthood and wanting to be priests and all that, not trying to knock them. But the problem is a lot of these guys are as. Yeah, as dominic kind rightly points out, they're being formed in the new mass seminaries. It's the same stuff, and while they sure are more liturgically traddy and sure maybe they get some of the moral issues down, by pre-conciliar standards they're still way off the mark. And that's where we need to get back to, at least as a baseline.

Speaker 2: 50:18

But I think outside of an act of God. I don't see how that happens. To get back to at least at a as a baseline is, like you know, as a priest, but I think I think, outside of an act of god. I don't see how that happens I can.

Speaker 6: 50:24

I just what my? This is the same story. I tell it every time I we have this kind of conversation about, about the future priests that are seminarians today, because they're always so, they're always so inspiring. And it's true, they are the great young men. They seem to have a passion and love for Holy Mother Church and even a non-church tradition, and I love it.

Speaker 6: 50:42

But the reality is, when you go to a seminary at a diocese, you're going into a system that's been fine tuned to take. You know, bright eyed, dreamy little young men who think they're going to become a great missionary priest to save the world and crank them into the next branch manager in your corporate empire. And every step along the way, these young men say to themselves I just got to get ordained and then finally I'll be free. It's not true. They won't be free, they'll never be free. And by the time they realize what it takes to be free, they have been either excommunicated, laicized or, even worse, the punishment today is to be hung out to dry. You're not allowed to leave and you're not allowed to stay. You're just stuck in limo land and you get punished by the process. So a lot of these young men, I think, are going to do what they can under the circumstances, but all of their mentors, all of their assignments, everything is dictated by the people who have the keys and they are making all the decisions and they're not good ones. So I know I see a lot of these young men get. They start off very dreamy and then they go through the process, they get ordained and then they just become the next corporate priest out there and it's.

Speaker 6: 51:57

It's a sad, sad, sad story. They'll be, yeah, they'll be. Uh, you know, someone earlier was, uh, was giving you crap for uh, for uh, peddling your wares, uh, to the audience. These priests do the same thing, like when you, when you try to have serious conversations with them in a charitable way too, by the way uh, you know. But the father, what about? You know? What about all this shenanigans going on, you know, and he'll start making one excuse after that. And yet four years earlier, when he was still a seminarian, you know, he wouldn't have said that. He was like as concerned as you are about anything yeah, they beat them down, they wear them down.

Speaker 3: 52:32

Yeah, because it's the whole notion of like okay I. I have so many friends who have jumped into the diocese and seminaries. A lot of them have left, but some of them stayed, and it's always the same story of either group. It comes down to you go into the diocese and seminary thinking I'm going to with zeal, but maybe it's misplaced. I'm going to be the one to change the system, I'm going to bring back the all the traditions, but then in seven years you're underneath you're an associate pastor, underneath the senior pastor, and you're now giving communion in the hand to old ladies and you're with altar girls. So nothing's really changed.

Speaker 3: 53:07

Ultimately, all that really happened is that you became more and more frustrated. You put yourself in a worse position. That's why, of course, anthony, you and Rob, when you interviewed Bishop Schneider, you both asked him a fantastic question. You asked where should a young man go to seminary? Should he even go to the diocesan seminary? And Bishop Schneider said I can't think of one diocesan seminary in the world that you'd send him to. You have to go to a traditional seminary. I fully agree.

Speaker 4: 53:32

So I have a seminary story for you. I never went to seminary myself, but there was somebody I was friends with back in Portland who was very much a he would fit into this panel back in those days. And then he went to seminary with the Archdiocese of Portland and came out denouncing everything from Raté Chaley, the blog, to all Vatican Jews just misunderstood and yada, yada, yada yada. He left the seminary, which is probably a blessing, especially if he didn't actually have a vocation, and he, not much to my surprise, later on developed full-on, full-blown TDS. So again it was like a different person walked out of seminary in the Archdiocese of Portland, oregon, an Archbishop sample.

Speaker 2: 54:17

One of the better ones. Yeah, man, you think he's one of the better ones. I mean, I even worry about guys like Ripperger and Father Nix, because right now they're in Denver and they're okay. But after that, I wonder. It's only a matter of time before he gets pulled out of there.

Speaker 6: 54:37

He can play a game and again, I've seen this so many times. Their whole apostolate, their ministry is all dependent upon good relationships with the diocese and other dioceses. So they play the game to save what they've built, you know, and I don't blame them for that, I understand it. I just want them to be honest about it. That's it, that's the only thing I ask is let's just be honest about it. For the same reason why we might say we're going to be careful about how we describe certain big things, we're not going to talk about certain zarnish people in a certain way because we have to be careful about the rules on this platform or whatever, as long as we're straight up about it, I don't have a problem. It's when they pretend, as though they start apologizing for these things that they know personally is not great or not good, not appropriate, but they're going to pretend otherwise because they have to protect those relationships, that's when I start to lose that respect. I can appreciate when, when, like on my show, if I have a guest on who, like I'll give you a good example, father alar. Right, father, I interviewed father alar because he gave a good homily that I thought was great and and, um, you know, I wanted to talk about that. So these people called me and they're like okay, you're not allowed to talk about x, y or z. I'm like, I didn't. I didn't book him to talk about x, y or z.

Speaker 6: 56:00

I talked to, I wanted to talk about the homily, like, yeah, like, like, why is this? This is not an issue. It's not an issue. Like he already said all these words publicly, I'm just gonna have the conversation with him, that's all. It's not a gotcha. You know, I'm not gonna, you know, do anything to the guy. And then he came on to his credit. Praise be to god. He came on and we had that conversation, was fine, you know. But that's the problem, I see, is a lot of these guys, they, they. I feel like they're being slightly disingenuous in order to protect that little baby a little too much yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 3: 56:29

It reminds me actually. Well, I was going to make the joke. I was, you know, for father ripperger and father nix and all that I was just going to say hmm, I wonder if there's like a society of priests out there that they could join that they could be protected from all of the bishop's actions.

Speaker 3: 56:42

I don't know, someone should get on that Anyway. But yeah, no, it reminds me your story, joe, reminds me of three or four years ago. I thought about telling this story on my show. Almost no one knows this.

Speaker 3: 57:00

I worked for the Thomistic Institute, which, if you guys know, it's like a student college organization on the Catholic intellectual level in secular colleges run by the Dominican order, the Dominican House of Studies in Washington DC, and I forget entirely how. But so I was running this group. We were getting like all of these guest speakers to come in from all around the country to talk about, like you know, anti-abortion, anti-relevantismism, all kind of stuff like that on a secular college campus and actually talk about objective reality. It was great. But the organization found out that I am a supporter of a, of a certain society of priests. We'll just say, um, and so that was, of course, naughty, naughty, you shouldn't have that. And so when they came down, they uh, they told me, they said, uh, you need to you that we're going to like your next speaker that we'll send down, which is a priest, you've got to be willing to hear what he says. So the priest gets up there and in the same lecture to 150 people, says Protestants are our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Speaker 3: 57:58

Five minutes later, the SSspx is in schism and then, immediately after the lecture, they go and remove me from office. Why? It wasn't because they said at the end of the day, the sspx is bad. They said your pro-sspx stance will cost us donors and money. And that's what it is. So this is my point, like the order for truth, the dominicans out there that a lot of like normie catholics think oh, you know the. Their. Their motto literally is truth no, for so many people it goes back down to money. Joe, you know this way more than I do everything back down money there is.

Speaker 6: 58:36

It's unfortunately ruined a lot of relationships I've built over the past 15, 20 years working in in catechoposal work. You know, um, they have to protect that income, they have to protect that ability to keep going and protect those, those relationships. You know, I got disinvited. I was supposed to participate in a big conference in texas this last year. Got disinvited then, um, and didn't get into talking to talking to people like anthony stein and us what'd you? Expect anthony. Anthony's a sleeper. Nobody, uh nobody.

Speaker 4: 59:08

Nobody complains when I have anthony on praise be to god um. I read vegano's letters on on my show and agree with 90 of what he says yeah, but you do it at 5 am.

Speaker 2: 59:19

Yes, All right, listen, we're coming up on an hour and I promise Stein I wouldn't keep him too long. This poor guy is like he looks like he's going to die on us, so we're going to jump over to the other side. Ant, you got anything to promote?

Speaker 4: 59:35

People know where to find me.

Speaker 2: 59:36

Yeah, return to tradition on YouTube, joe, what about you?

Speaker 6: 59:40

before we go to the other side Uh, I just put out a great video my last video for this week in Christmas on uh, the cave. Uh, where our Lord was born, the specific reason why our Lord was born in that cave. I would encourage everybody to to uh inspirational to you this Christmas season, so check that out of the Joe McLean channel.

Speaker 2: 59:59

Everybody go subscribe to the traditional Tomas as well. We're going to head to the other side. Joe, you're going to stick around. You got to go to bed.

Speaker 6: 1:00:07

I'm off, I'm good.

Speaker 2: 1:00:07

All right, let's do it All right, and thank you so much for making time for us, man, I appreciate you. Maybe when your sleep schedule is a little bit more adjusted, we could get you back on.

Speaker 4: 1:00:17

Thanks for having me on, guys, and it was an interesting conversation, and something maybe you guys should talk about is there was somebody in the live chat. Now it's, of course, disappeared, but oh, where did it go? Come on, oh well, I should have just written it down, because now I've forgotten, because my brain is mush right now. I know people are complaining, we're black pilling and things. Who knows, maybe the next pope will be, you know, the mythical pious the 13th, gregory, the 17th or whatever moniker you prefer. It's just I don't. I don't see a road from here to there without.

Speaker 4: 1:00:54

I just don't leave anything out of god's, like god's providence, like god can do anything and I've seen and seen miracles in my lifetime and I don't discount that either and it could very well be that this right word shift we're seeing in the culture will have some sort of similar effect of the church. It could. That could be how it plays out yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:01:13

It seems like the bishops don't seem to grasp that there's, there's a there is something happening in the culture where it's like the woke stuff we're done with, we're sick of it, we want nothing to do with it young men are turning against.

Speaker 4: 1:01:25

Uh, those kind of impure movies you find on the internet. You have any idea how seismic that is.

Speaker 2: 1:01:30

Yeah, locations that has for the long term yeah, man, because if we get down to oh man, we could. I could honestly talk about this for another hour or two. So, all right, all right, we'll, we'll. We're going to jump over to the other side, guys. So if you are not already subscribed to our locals community, it's literally $5 a month. I mean, you guys, it's, it's pennies a day to come over there. We do, uh the second hour over there and that's where we get to actually talk about uh things that that we can't say over here, and we kind of let our hair down a little bit. So you guys can join us over there. Anthony, thank you for joining us, and we will see you guys there.

Speaker 2: 1:02:01

God bless you, gentlemen, merry Christmas, thank you okay, we're good so so I had a little bit too much to drink and, dude, I just got into that same exact conversation I did last time when feminism and them sitting because my kids are all getting to that age and I'm just like, I'm like expecting them to back me, especially the men who are. They all have stay-at-home wives, and I'm just. But I was just drunk and I'm like I don't know, I just I was like. I was like none of you believe the things that are like every one of us are brainwashed by feminism.

Speaker 5: 1:03:14

I just it ended up like my wife you need to have uh, tim gordon, come with you to a family event sometime oh my gosh, I was just.

Speaker 2: 1:03:23

I was as like blunt as he is, for sure, but yeah, just with smaller words. Well, my what? What surprised me was my wife, because that's hilarious. The last time this happened, my wife, me and my wife, it was like a huge blowout. This time my wife was just like patient with me and we went home and she was like, look, they all know you, you know like everybody knows you they can't be surprised. Like they're not. They know who you are.

Speaker 2: 1:03:49

I'm just yeah, it's literally like the. It's almost the anniversary of it's every christmas for some reason, and she goes tomorrow. I'm just telling you you're gonna wake up, you're gonna feel like crap, you're gonna feel awful, you're gonna want to apologize, everybody. She goes. I've been down this road, anthony, and she just went to bed and I went to bed sitting there like, oh man, the next day, all those things happened.

Speaker 6: 1:04:12

This was your family, like your blood relatives, not always my wife's.

Speaker 2: 1:04:16

My wife, you are the worst ever.

Speaker 6: 1:04:18

Look at you, oh dude your wife's house and just someone of the chances.

Speaker 5: 1:04:24

You basically got drunk and did the anathema scene from beckett.

Speaker 2: 1:04:28

It's pretty much like I literally did like it wasn't that far off, I'm just like, I'm just so frustrated with everybody because I'm like dude, every one of you, your wives stay home and you provide the like, you're the man of the home, like when I said I'm like no, the man is supposed to be the provider and the man of the home and the wife is supposed to. They all looked at me like I was. How could you? I don't understand. I'm like, I don't. Whatever it makes sense, though.

Speaker 3: 1:04:52

I don't whatever it makes sense, though. I mean cause like. I mean, you know, gordon, one of his whole points is that that he's been on this kick for a couple of months now. Is that, like, most of the trads are even themselves pretty feminist, and it's fairly true. I mean, literally this last week I was in a choir practice. I actually like to sing it's one thing that most people don't know about me and I was in choir practice and we were organizing like the next time that we're all going to meet and stuff, and one of the guys there like really tall bass voice, right, super cool dad.

Speaker 3: 1:05:21

He says, well, I have to ask my wife, like he's, for permission of like when to go out. And so I just didn't, like typical guy to guy humor, start needling him a little bit. I'm like you have to ask your wife's permission. I thought you're the pot of familias, like what is this?

Speaker 3: 1:05:37

And when he leaves, this other woman who's completely on the other side of the room comes up to me first words and you know where the conversation's going. I assume you're not married and she starts to proceed of giving me this entire lecture and I don't put up with anything because that's just my temperament and so I just say you know, lady, with all respect, here's the thing. The man is in charge of the house. It doesn't mean that he trolls his wife, but there has to be one who's in charge of the house. It's, of course, servant leadership, and one also I'm like giving this guy a joke, but like, yeah, I'm giving this guy a joke, but yeah, there is no situation where the husband needs to ask his wife for permission, letting his wife know having a discussion, a talk, but permission no, well, nick, you know what I found so interesting.

Speaker 2: 1:06:26

My wife handled it really well because she wouldn't be mad at anything. I said She'd be mad, that I'm like riling up everybody there. Like she like it went from being like what would have been a nice dinner to like voices raise and it's like it's like that meme that says I now realize I'm the crazy racist uncle at Christmas.

Speaker 5: 1:06:49

Literally, that's literally me Right.

Speaker 2: 1:06:50

So but so that happened on Sunday night and then Monday I had to go to work and I was hung over at work and I felt crappy. But then on christmas day I saw all the same people again and I was talking to my father-in-law. He goes and he goes. I know everything you said came from a place of love. Like it's not. You know he's like I, we've known you, we know you're from the middle ages, it's okay, that's literally what he says. I was like all right, that's all I care about, as long as you know it's coming you should be like yeah, I am illiterate, wow, how do?

Speaker 2: 1:07:20

you handle uh, how do you handle, uh, non-catholic family members? Joe?

Speaker 6: 1:07:28

so I've got a rule, um, because I've done all the wrong things too, you know, um, and they're fruitless, right? So I have a rule I don't debate. I think debate is fruitless, I think debate is pointless. You know, just getting into arguments Now I'll give an exception to that rule here in a minute. But generally speaking, if I want to win someone over, if I want to try to plant a seed in their heart and get them to see things from a different perspective, then I don't debate them. If they want to fight, they're not going to get one. Sorry, not going to get one. When they're open for conversation and it's obvious that they're asking questions and they want sincere answers to, even if they don't agree with them, they're still looking for information. I'm happy to have that conversation because that's going to be much more fruitful. But just having a debate, uh, for the sake of debate, this I just don't see it. It it's going to not lead to better relationships or whatever.

Speaker 6: 1:08:21

Now I would say that you know you play the colombo thing right. You like you, you can sit there and you can play the. You know the asking question after question that plants, you know, little seeds in the mind or whatever, that's fine. They might be confrontational, they might be combative and you just might be. Oh, I don't really that's fascinating. But what about so and so, and you're just kind of playing that Columbo game that might, that might work as well, but ultimately, if the the only time I like won't put up with it, if it's like you start mocking our lady, okay, like our Lord can take it. He's God. Okay, our lady, our lady's different, for whatever reason.

Speaker 2: 1:09:00

For me anyway, it's like I'll punch someone in the face if they insult our lady.

Speaker 6: 1:09:05

People know in my audience that there's some troll that comes in the chat box or in the show. It's like they know that's my button and they will. They'll start stomping on that button. They might say a bunch of other things Like I just won't care, whatever.

Speaker 4: 1:09:18

Yeah, if somebody says something blasphemous, I will go off.

Speaker 2: 1:09:21

So if somebody says something blasphemous like if they take the Lord's name in vain, you'll make the son of the cross, things like that, but if somebody says something about Our Lady, it's like I'm defending my mother's honor.

Speaker 6: 1:09:36

Like it's just different. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna lose it. Um, yeah, I remember I had a war with my dad and, uh, you know, I pulled the, I pulled my bible out and I bludgeoned him with it. You know, um, he's, my dad being anti-catholic, and thought he he had read scripture cover to cover many times, thought he had it all worked out, and like you have no clue, you know. And so I just started like just beating him with it and, um, I remember my priest said to me what kind of relationship do you want with your dad, because the one you got now doesn't seem to be all that great. So, you know, and that was sort of a clue for me I'm like, okay, clearly I'm not doing this right. Simply winning arguments isn't winning souls.

Speaker 3: 1:10:09

Yeah, it kind of depends on the disposition of the person how do they learn? Kind of depends on, like, the disposition of the person. Like how do they learn? How did they receive like love or appreciation or whatever? Because I found that in my very slow five-year attempt at converting my parents, they're becoming closer and closer and closer. Like my mom is starting to just show up at mass now, which is kind of cool. It's amazing. Praise God.

Speaker 3: 1:10:29

It's very cool, but I found that, for instance, I assumed whenever I was first Catholic that everyone became Catholic through reading. Because, duh, if you read history.

Speaker 6: 1:10:38

How could you not be Catholic? You've not read the early church fathers.

Speaker 3: 1:10:41

Like all of them, yeah, exactly, but it's like your average normie American evangelical has be one of like a heart to heart, like she sees the change in me, I invite her and we hang out and things like that with my dad in general nick, because like that's how my wife came along.

Speaker 2: 1:11:05

My wife came along by seeing the change in me and the way I was with my daughters yeah, with my dad.

Speaker 3: 1:11:10

I have to do it more intellectually. I have to convince him more of things. Let's go back back to Mark Wahlberg for example.

Speaker 6: 1:11:15

You know. So Mark has a resurgence of the faith. You know his life and praise God for it. I think everybody around him and his worldview is a little bubble. Probably it's very normie, very modernist, miller road Catholics, so it is what it is. But like when Mark stops cursing and Mark stops doing certain scenes in his own films, stops taking Ted 3 or whatever that stupid movie was, his characters blaspheme like every other sentence. It's like Mark, you're the star, mark it's your production company, mark, you're the boss here. They all got to do what you tell them to do. I'm not saying this stuff anymore.

Speaker 2: 1:11:54

Even the father the priest movie he did. It was so vulgar to watch and, yeah, like the end was beautiful like I got, they got the.

Speaker 6: 1:12:04

The promoter of that film got mad at me because they they. I didn't promote the film. They're like why not?

Speaker 3: 1:12:09

I'm like it's vulgar oh, it's just the thing called the sin of scandal that actually exists.

Speaker 6: 1:12:14

I'm like well, it's just being real. I'm like it's unnecessary reality, okay like I can try to find it's not the same thing as you interrupting this plot to bring me another curse word like it, just it, I could even deal with the cursing.

Speaker 2: 1:12:30

I could deal with cursing, not taking our lord's name in vain. Like he said GD.

Speaker 6: 1:12:34

Every other word in that movie, it was just it was just the point that I was going to make by bringing him back up was by saying now, imagine if he changed tomorrow. How that would just be like everybody around him would be like whoa, what got into Mark? That's a mate. Like what this guy hasn't cursed in six months. What the heck is going on here like that. If you, if you did that, anthony, if you, if you curbed what was normally your disordered behaviors in front of people who've seen you all these years act this way, twitter would be so boring that's what I was going to say public twitter is true for all of us, right like the friends, the family members that have to deal with us, like my wife and kids.

Speaker 6: 1:13:13

They know, know that I don't walk on water. I, you know, they know I've got lots of faults and attitude problems. I lose my cool and I do all those stupid things too. But if I stopped doing those things, that alone would be much more of a witness. And I think the other problem is with, especially with apologetics, and I think maybe in Nicholas you and I probably in the same category in this and that so read into the church that we think this way all the time. But when you encounter someone who has an opposing argument against the church, I'm going to argue that 85 of the time their arguments aren't intellectual, they're emotional and we miss it when we're having the conversation about intellectual ideas.

Speaker 6: 1:13:54

And you know, and it's really emotional, but, like Anthony, you're at dinner and all of these people, where were they catechized? Again, anthony? Like how? Where did they? Where were they properly formed ever? Who were their dads that witnessed that? They witnessed firsthand treating women in the way that's supposed to be treated, and and and honoring them and and and ruling their house appropriately with dignity and honor and respect. Like they've never seen this, ever. They haven't seen it on tv, they've never seen it in a movie, you know, they've never seen in their homes, their friends homes. They have no clue what you're talking about. You might as well be a little green man from mars right now stepping off a ufo in new jersey. I mean, it's just, it's so foreign to them that that you just sound like a crazy person, because they can't simply relate. But it's not an intellectual one, it's an emotional thing oh, it's almost always yeah what do?

Speaker 6: 1:14:44

is we got to be able to look past the argument, see the emotional thing and make the decision to go oh, if I throw out the nuclear bomb right now on them, it ain't gonna help them, they're just not gonna, just not going to see it, it's going to destroy this opportunity. So you know, you plan a scene, you just keep moving, you keep waiting for your opportunity.

Speaker 2: 1:14:59

Yeah, if I wasn't drinking it would have went way differently. But, rob, your mom is back in Mass, right?

Speaker 5: 1:15:08

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:15:09

And how did that come about?

Speaker 5: 1:15:18

So she went to confession for the first time in at least 20 years, uh, probably right before easter, um, and I I think it was just uh, my family always, you know, going to mass and her wanting to go to mass with their grandkids, um, so I yeah, it would. You know, and even today, talking with her about some of the things of the faith, I tend to get too argumentative and I've, I've just have tried to just calm that, you know, calm that down and and just bring her to mass, you know that's what she?

Speaker 5: 1:15:52

she needs the sacraments more than she needs Give her milk.

Speaker 6: 1:15:57

Can't take meat just yet.

Speaker 2: 1:15:59

That's such a good point though, with the sacraments like right, like it's like okay yeah, dude, I think men men don't know how to talk to women about like you're. So many guys try to like teach their wife, then it's like dude. Their wife it's like dude. It's not going to work that way. Bring your wife to Mass, let her see something gentle in you, and that will work a thousand times better than any argument we could get.

Speaker 5: 1:16:20

I think both my wife and my mom have gotten more out of seeing me teach my kids the faith than trying to discuss it with them. Right, exactly, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:16:34

I would say, well, I guess, to anthony's point I can't teach or bring my family to mass because you don't, I don't have one. But uh, that that's neither here nor there, I guess. But uh, I'll take it under advisement. But what?

Speaker 2: 1:16:48

what it reminded me. You're taking your mom to mass and you told me your mom has gone to adoration with you, like oh yeah, no, I'm referring to your wife comment.

Speaker 3: 1:16:56

Take your wife teach your wife I'm just making a joke at my own expense, um, but uh, no, what it reminded me of was so we started this conversation, kind of talking about feminism, and, um, I think when you guys use you're using the term debate, what you're referring to is not like the actual art of debating, but the common, argumentative, hyper-emotional thing that we associate debating with today, which goes to show you how effeminized our culture is.

Speaker 3: 1:17:27

Because there was a time in the church especially where you saw this before the council where seminarians would be tasked to have a two hour long debate in Latin over scholastic dictums, and it was all about the pursuit of truth, right, very masculine, right. But our society is so feminized to where, if someone merely disagrees with you one, as you talked about, joe like 85% of the time it's going to be some type of an emotional hang up that they have, and so they're not going to be some type of an emotional hang up that they have, and so they're not going to be like, okay, yeah, let's define our terms and debate these things out and then shake hands. At the end of the day, it's going to be you're attacking me as an individual, you want to destroy me, etc. Etc. I'm just curious about how men can form a like a cultural conversation around, like getting back to a more healthy place of dialogue and debate well right off the bat, like.

Speaker 2: 1:18:16

One of the things I've said at my in-laws was look like everybody says oh, don't, don't discuss politics or religion at the dinner table. But the reason our culture has fallen into such degradation is because men have refused to discuss politics and religion at the dinner table. So it's become like now we have trannies everywhere. It's like you got. You have to be able to speak up on this stuff. If you don't talk about it, it'll just.

Speaker 6: 1:18:45

Everybody gets infected by this nonsense yeah, exactly, which is why I go back to yes. I want a theocracy. 100, of course, like course. Would Jesus tolerate trans anything if he were sitting on a throne in Washington DC? No, I mean, of course he wouldn't tolerate these things, but we do.

Speaker 3: 1:19:05

I don't remember. I don't think I remember Pope Francis' Christmas homily sounding like St Bonaventure's Christmas homily, where he's like, yeah, our Lord was born and then literally every sodomite on planet earth died in that moment. You guys, do you guys know that he preached that, you guys?

Speaker 5: 1:19:21

yeah, I have heard that. Yeah, yeah, I'll send it to you.

Speaker 3: 1:19:24

It's really funny because he's like he's, like our lord is born.

Speaker 5: 1:19:28

At that moment every sodomite on planet earth dies it does go to show you that it's uh, that it's a choice, right, because if it was uh, if it was genetic, genetic it would have been.

Speaker 2: 1:19:41

Yeah, god wouldn't do that that means he, that means he created them that way. That's like the double predestination thing. It's like he created just to burn in hell. Um, yeah, it's just. It's. Look, this is that time of year where you're around family, a lot and stuff. So yeah, I've found it's interesting because my in-laws do ask questions like they are interested. They see me and nicole went to italy and they see all this beauty we saw. They see my kids love going, like my kids go to mass if I'm not around, like it, like you know, and I think they're like, shocked by that. They're like and I think that're like shocked by that.

Speaker 6: 1:20:14

They're like and I think that's the most witness, I think it's the most important witness that you can have is really like walk the walk, yeah, and then, when, when an opportunity arises, talk the talk. But you better be walking that walk first. You can't live like a, like a, like a secular person and expect to have meaning behind the words when you get a chance to talk to them, because it'll be schizophrenia, right, like hold on. On one hand, you're telling me this, but I watch you and you live like that.

Speaker 2: 1:20:42

You're a fraud at that point right. There's something fraudulent about living like that, where nobody likes a hypocrite man. If you're going to be a hypocrite, people will literally just hate it.

Speaker 6: 1:20:55

You know, the pornography issue is so bad and pornography effeminizes a man, right? So, uh, so men are afraid of confrontation, that are addicted to pornography and they try to avoid these things so they don't want any conflict, they don't want to conflict with their spouses, so they let their spouses kind of do whatever and then, uh, you know, then if they see they see an injustice in society, they're not willing to do anything about that, right? And uh, we're definitely seeing that every day on social media, people film people being beaten instead of helping people being beaten. You know, it's just like we live in such a dystopia, crazy world that guys really are so, um, they don't really know what it means to be man. They have no real concept of it. No examples, let me start. We talked about that earlier taught us you know what?

Speaker 3: 1:21:40

I mean that's a multi-generational problem where I mean it's so weird that, like the cult, the conversations in my my age bracket amongst all my friends, is two things one, like our fathers didn't teach us anything. Like my dad's pretty good right, my dad is pretty good, but there's even still a lot that my father didn't teach me. And these, some of these other guys, it's like their fathers were absent. They don't even know how to change a tire, they don't know how to cook for themselves, they don't know how to use a washing machine, they don't know anything, much less, about masculine virtues. They're having that conversation. They're saying where do we go? And that's why we really do need more now than ever for the church to actually start promoting really good role models for men.

Speaker 3: 1:22:22

Because when you look at I mean again, I'm not going to try to open this can of worms, but for instance, when it came to the whole debate that we've had a couple weeks ago back about the Fuentes debate, without getting into Fuentes' views, views, let's just talk about his mannerisms. Right, a lot of guys have gone to fuentes because they are looking naturally for a leader. But ultimately what when your, your group or your crowd is making like rape jokes and a crude, crude language and all that kind of stuff. That's not actually magnanimity, that great virtue, that's just a feminacy in some form or fashion. My whole point is just we don't have any role models, and so you guys are older generations. Be that for your kids. Wow, he just called us old Dude.

Speaker 6: 1:23:03

I'm serious, he just threw us under the bus. I'm serious.

Speaker 2: 1:23:07

Get off my lawn. There we go. He gave Nick the boot. Oh, it's the first time he gave Nick the boot.

Speaker 3: 1:23:18

I boot. Oh, it's the first time he gave nick the boot. I'm just seriously like we wouldn't have tolerated that. I'm just saying it is something that scares me because I see the next generation gen alpha coming up behind me. I know some like really good families, right, who are traditional catholics, who are like teaching their sons, all good stuff, but I see a lot of the students who come through my door. They don't even know how to say hi, they can't even look at me in the face, much less can they actually do something like consume information to learn it. It's just rogue memorization for a test. It's scary and their addiction to the phones.

Speaker 6: 1:23:51

I had a 3.9 GPA in college. I am the poster boy for why colleges should be destroyed. Thank you, nicholas. Let me tell you, I had a 3.9 GPA in college. I am the poster boy for why colleges should be destroyed and, as the Holy Roman Emperor, I will wipe out higher education and build it again from the ground up.

Speaker 6: 1:24:04

And only certain people can go to college, not everyone. It's not your rite of passage. Okay for you to go and have fun for four years, sorry, but no, you're supposed to understand how to come to a logical conclusion. And the highest and best educated people in our country have given us transgendered ideology, nonsense and abortion on demand and contraception, ivf, anyone, anyone, I don't know. Jd Vance, donald Trump, ivf on demand. I mean like, are you out of your mind? Education is so screwed right now. We are cranking out because it's a big business. We're just cranking out all of these more moronic people, one after another, paying lots of money, and then they want to get a refund from the federal government. Because why should they have to pay for this bad education? I agree, you shouldn't. It's terrible. You should never have gone to begin with. But here we are in a system where all you got to do is pass a test and you will get an A.

Speaker 3: 1:24:58

I am proof of it A 3.9 GPA.

Speaker 6: 1:25:01

I don't know any. I don't even know how to use a comma in a sentence properly, but I have a 3.9 GPA in college. It's ridiculous.

Speaker 3: 1:25:07

No, it's scary. I have students who come into my classroom and so my, my school, right, we'll teach these like after hours catechism classes for the parish. All these kids come in, right, most of them have gone to the new mass their whole life and also been in faith formation their whole life. I'll come in. I'll give them like a placement test and something basic. Can you name the 10 commandments in order? Can you repeat to me the our father? Can you repeat to me the creed? Every year no one gets an a. They always are getting below 30 in their overall grade. It's horrible.

Speaker 3: 1:25:39

And so then, when I give them these classes and lectures, I'll be, you know, putting paper and pencil in front of them, take notes, ask questions like let's figure this thing out together, and the students haven't been taught to learn. Last thing I'll say on this is just, we follow this German model of education that we've often heard influencers talk about. Where it's just? Here's this information consume it in rogue memorization format so that you can be a good worker bee, and that's it. Classical education that the Catholic church perfected was you have an intellect and you will have a will, and these faculties have to be exercised, just like you're exercising with your muscles. They have to be exercised and trained so that one day, when some type of piece of information comes before you maybe you've never seen it before, but your intellect and will are formed to where you can look at it and say, okay, I know how to figure it out. We don't have that today. It's, it's truly scary. Do we? Do we picture gen alpha taking over the uS economy one day?

Speaker 6: 1:26:34

Yes, they're going to. They're going to have to.

Speaker 3: 1:26:38

That's scary.

Speaker 5: 1:26:39

You think we're going to have an?

Speaker 2: 1:26:40

economy then, Well, the thing is you can tell him Rob, my son is looking at going to school and I'm like, wait a minute, Even this conversation. I'm so glad we just had this. What colleges can I even let him go to? Is Thomas More College good? We just had this? Is like no, like. What colleges can I even let him go to? Like it's thomas more college good? Like a couple of good ones?

Speaker 6: 1:26:57

I think no, I need to know them as a parent that I'll be with with my kids because, uh, most of my kids are teens at this point um, and so we had, we had these conversations, deep-heated conversations about disrepairment, their future and all of that, and, um, you know, know, we delay, they don't go to college right away. Do you have a need to go to college? What is this? Why do you feel like you need to go to college? Like that's part of the conversation.

Speaker 2: 1:27:24

Like what is God calling you to?

Speaker 6: 1:27:26

And I think for a lot of kids, like St Paul says it in Romans, chapter 12. He tells us God has given you natural aptitudes for a reason. You start there in your discernment. And as a man, am I called to the priesthood? Am I called to religious life? As a lady, am I called to family life and am I called to religious life? We have to eliminate this idea of rushing off to college because they won't mount to anything if they don't have a four-year degree. That is hogwash, hogwashwash. You can get a job, you can learn a trade, you can hustle and work hard and make. Make a living in this country

Speaker 6: 1:28:01

you don't need. You don't need any degree to do any hard work and hustle. Everyone has access to this and um. But what is god calling you to like? That needs to be a very serious question, and they all they will always say I don't know.

Speaker 6: 1:28:14

Fair enough, fair enough, but you have to start out. You have to start with your a, your natural aptitudes being the vocation coupled with a vocation. So if you're a man, then you're either going to be called to religious life, priest life, or the family life, in which case you better learn how to provide for that family. In which case I would say, start with your natural aptitudes, what comes natural to to you. Start there. You might learn along the way.

Speaker 6: 1:28:37

That's really not what I want. Maybe it's this other thing. Well, you discover the other thing because you went down that road. So start with your natural aptitudes towards the vocations that are also natural to you. And I think it's important Now. We talked about this earlier, but we just said all these diocesan seminaries are really not great. I totally agree. You've got a very small number of of communities or places that you could send your son to and not worry all that much, but I'm going to tell you there is no place on planet earth that is 100 immune from from scandals and sins no of course not this side of the heavenly veil.

Speaker 6: 1:29:12

So you can. You can mitigate that risk by choosing carefully certain communities, certain religious communities or whatever. If you send your guy to a seminary that's got a great bishop today, that bishop dies tomorrow. He retires, the next day after that he's gone. And then there's somebody else, there's no guarantee in that and their seminaries, as good as he is, is still not a guarantee. So you mitigate those risks, but either way you got to start there. And how do you discern marriage unless you're in a relationship? I mean, the idea is great. You can, you can study all the church's teachings and encyclicals and you can. You can get some you know advice from your pastor, your confessor, whatever. But you don't ever actually discern a marriage unless you're in a relationship with someone discerning a marriage. So you got to find that one problem.

Speaker 3: 1:29:59

There's just one problem. There's about as many good seminaries out there as there are Catholic couples dating currently out there, and so the problem is that there is a massive societal issue that, whether we like it or not, has bled into the church on this discussion of dating. I am a victim of it. I'm not going to meme myself into oblivion, but I was going to say when it came to Anthony, real quick, just a shameless plug. Mention to your son. I mean again, I don't know what he wants to go into, but at least mention him saint mary's college, the society college in the united states, because he will have a fantastic community if he goes there. But uh, yeah, I fully agree with you, joe. I think that people just have to look at see what are you naturally inclined to and they go out and try it and don't fall for the societal lie that if you don't get a four-year degree, you'll be working at the gas station for the rest of your life you'll own.

Speaker 6: 1:30:53

That's what I was. That's that's what I was told you'll own, and I jumped work there yeah, you will.

Speaker 3: 1:30:57

You will own it exactly. I jumped into the college immediately after because that's just the culture that I was raised in, and I found out really quickly, like I don't know if this is for me, and so I went and I spent four years in the workforce before I decided you know what? Okay, I've amassed enough money. I know what I kind of want to do now with my life. I want to go in this like particular field. It requires a degree. Okay, I'm gonna go pursue a school, but a good school, right. But you gotta try some stuff out. I mean, if you're fresh out of high school, you're just trying to figure out who you are, much less what you will be doing for the next you're.

Speaker 6: 1:31:31

You're a sophomore going into your junior year, finally coming to some clue about what you want to do with this degree thing. And then you're like, oh, now I need to go and focus and get more. I had to go sign up for this class that I didn't I should have. Nah, darn it. And now you're out taking extra classes because you didn't know, because you jumped right in and you should have waited. You should have gone out, worked a little bit, had some life experience, grew up a little bit and then figure out what is that call? Does it even require college at all? For most I'm going to argue most for most men, it doesn't require college. And for women, if you're called to marriage, is it ethical that you bring massive college debt into your family? Yeah, nope, no. As a guy, should you bring massive college debt into your family? No, nope, no, it's not. It's not ethical that you do that. You're going to be putting your family back decades by doing that. So you got to make these decisions very carefully. The problem is we're just not honest. We want little Billy. We want little Billy to go to our alma mater, right, we want him to have the big paper on the wall over there. We want him to get the ring and be on the team and that way he'll have a nice house, a big car, fancy friends, nice clothes and all the rest. And that, in a nickel, won't get Billy to heaven, and that's the problem is we aren't helping our kids. There's so much societal pressure to run off to college that we just get, we get on this team and we just don't think about it very often. And I think we need to pause that, step back, give Billy and little Susan an opportunity to take a deep breath and really think as well.

Speaker 6: 1:33:05

I guess I had this conversation with my older daughter just a couple of weeks ago. I'm like you've you've had a front row seat to your parents' marriage. How hard has it been? Oh, it's been hard. I'm like okay, then do you have a list? What do you mean? Do you have a list of everything your parents have done that you don't like? They've done bad, not communicating well, dad losing his temper, raising his voice in the house. How about? Do you think I've disciplined well? Do you think I've taught well? Do you think I've provided well? If not, then what did I do wrong? You have a list.

Speaker 6: 1:33:38

How are you going to know and have a serious conversation with some future husband that you you're going to discern marriage with and ask him hey, buddy, how do you plan to discipline, discipline our children? Hey pal, what are you going to do when, when I'm having a bad day and I chop your head off at night? You know like you want to have these candid conversations and real conversations. You know like I think it's important for our kids to really be thinking sober and serious about all that stuff. And with my sons I'm like, if you think you're called to marriage, well, how are you planning to provide? What is your plan? How will you make money? And they don't honestly know the answer to these questions right now, which is I'm like it's reasonable, it's fair.

Speaker 6: 1:34:13

You're young, you haven't grown up. It'll be 20 more years before you actually become a man. So men, don't become men until 40, just the way it is. And until then, don't make really big, dumb decisions, don't run up a lot of debt, don't run around and don't sow your wild oats and don't try to get your rite of passage, but stay very focused on the one thing right in front of you what comes natural to you If you're feeling called to the vocation of marriage, then your only goal is to figure out how to make a living and do it ethically and well, with honor, and it doesn't necessarily matter what it is, as much as the way in which you pursue it.

Speaker 2: 1:34:51

But I know, but, joe, there also is the aspect of how are you going to provide for a family, which you said a bunch of times, but it's just like, but what?

Speaker 6: 1:35:00

comes natural, like my oldest son. My oldest son's 27, married with three kids. Um, what comes natural to him? If I've had this conversation with him so many times, I have no idea. I have no idea. I have no idea is what he'll say. But you know what really comes natural to him? He works hard. He's always been a hard worker. I took him camping once and I was setting the tent up, turned around he was gone. I'm like, where did Steven go? I think he's helping that lady chop wood down there. What? Get back here. My wood needs chopping. Why do you want that to happen to that lady? Let's get back over here.

Speaker 6: 1:35:30

That's always when my wife let him get a job in high school, which I was opposed to and I didn't put my foot down on it.

Speaker 6: 1:35:37

I meant to and I didn't, and I knew it wasn't the right choice because I knew he had a pulse and he'd show up for work. They were going to give him the key to the building, they were going to make him in charge and that's exactly what they did. And he's a teenager coming home at two o'clock in the morning because he's doing the closing managership and I'm like I knew that the kid had a weapon and that was working hard, and so he would excel because he would stand up above all of his peers who are lazy. It would be obvious that you can trust this guy. You can put, you can give this guy responsibility, and that's always been true for him, and I don't know if I said that to him. I'm like you may not know exactly how to apply this superpower, but it is your superpower, so figure out how to make a living at it and be able to see your family at the same time. You can't work 80 hours a week.

Speaker 2: 1:36:20

It's just not yeah, I feel that for young guys mrs casey in the chat has a good point.

Speaker 5: 1:36:25

She says I think men who work hard, who want their sons to not have to work hard, has created a lot of the problems we have today so true, so true.

Speaker 3: 1:36:34

It's father ripper's whole. You know it's his. It's father ripper's whole central theme of his great talk. People should go check it out.

Speaker 3: 1:36:41

It's called it's something like generational spirits yeah, the sixth generational spirit, something like that. It's really really good. Just type in father ripper generational, you'll find it. But, um, his whole premise, without getting into the weeds, is just that the, the generation that went off to world war one, was taught virtue by their parents and they were taught how to suffer well. And they taught that to the, you know, uh, to the great generation, if you will, the world war ii generation, but they did not teach them how to suffer well and because of that taught them to suffer.

Speaker 5: 1:37:14

Well, but not why they couldn't.

Speaker 3: 1:37:16

Oh, that's right, yeah, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2: 1:37:17

And then that generation wanted to keep their from suffering, yeah right exactly, exactly and it's gotten progressively worse and worse and worse and worse ever since. Yeah exactly, there's a lot, a lot for me to think about, because my kids are at that age and they're talking about all this stuff.

Speaker 5: 1:37:34

And, aunt, I've heard you say that you you work so hard at construction and you don't want your son I don't want him to have to deal with the commute.

Speaker 2: 1:37:42

It's not that I don't, my job itself it's the commute takes life out of you, right? So it's like it. So I I could get my son a job with me. I know he's capable of it. I don't want him to have to deal with the commute because the commute sucks years away from your life.

Speaker 6: 1:37:57

that's another important point, too that I've made with my sons, because I, like, I don't want to live where I live, and he, I don't like him. I don't want to live in a major city, I think it's a terrible quality of life, and uh, so I, I'm ready to move. I'm finally at a point where I might be able to move so. So I'm trying to work that out and I've said to my sons, like you need to think carefully about where you want to live. Like think now, the problem is when you're young you don't think about those things, you just want to jump right in, and then you want to get started, but then all of a sudden, you're locked into some things like your job.

Speaker 2: 1:38:28

Well, that's the difficulty with my job too. I'm stuck in new york. I don't want to be here. I want to get the hell out of here, and I don't want him here and I'm like that's.

Speaker 6: 1:38:35

so I would say, think carefully about the quality of life that you also want for your fate, your future family, and position yourself now, while you have the the ability to do so, to prepare for that future quality of life. So the, the place, the location, like living in a major city, is great because you've got lots of resources and jobs are always available to you. But, like you said, I spent the better part of 20 years two hours a day on a highway stuck in traffic, you know, and you're right, sucks the life out of it. There's no quality in that. You come home and you're miserable, you're angry, you're frustrated and where's the quality family time? Then, you know, you're just. My family suffers because I'm in a bad mood, you know, and the house just goes south from there.

Speaker 6: 1:39:20

So, like you know, do you want to live in a place where you might not have as many resources or job opportunities, but you might have a better quality of life? The environment is better, your parish community is better and it's more accessible to you because you live closer to it? Um, or you know, I think all of these decisions have to be thought carefully. It's part of the discernment, in my opinion, of for family life in particular, and I just think a lot of guys never think about those things and all of a sudden they're. They're like me, they're 50 and they're going. How do I get out of this? Oh my goodness how do I?

Speaker 2: 1:39:52

yeah, I'm almost there. Yeah, um, all right, listen, I have to try and get some sleep tonight because I I'm not gonna be able to function. But, joe, thank you so much for coming on, man, I'm uh well, I like getting you on. I think we should do it more often yeah, I'd love to do it.

Speaker 6: 1:40:08

God bless you all. Merry christmas to you. Happy new year, everybody, and praise be to god and thank you for your, for your generosity.

Speaker 2: 1:40:15

I'm not sure what's going on for tomorrow. Rob, I'll shoot.

Speaker 5: 1:40:18

Hickman a.

Speaker 2: 1:40:19

DM. Maybe he'll give us a day off and we'll do it next week or something. I'll see, because we don't have anything scheduled for next week yet. I'll see what his schedule is. I'll let everybody know when we schedule him. All right, man, this was a fun one, so we'll see you. We'll see you guys next time. God bless, adios. Thank you.