The Culture of Death (with Patrick Coffin)

We confront the harrowing ethical debates surrounding euthanasia. The heart-wrenching case of Margo Naranjo, a young woman in Texas, brings the complex moral implications of end-of-life decisions into stark relief. We delve into the controversies sparked by her parents' choices and court intervention, drawing parallels to similar cases like Terri Schiavo's. Through personal stories and experiences in Catholic hospitals, we question societal attitudes towards life, suffering, and compassionate care, urging a deeper understanding and empathy for those navigating these painful decisions.

From there, we explore the cultural and religious tensions of our time. We recount personal stories of loss and divine encounters, reflecting on the struggle to maintain faith amidst media narratives and political shifts. Critiquing figures like Richard Dawkins and discussing the cultural implications of the Second Vatican Council, we weave a rich tapestry of humor, heartfelt stories, and thought-provoking discussions. Whether pondering the impact of Vatican II or the rise of secular ideologies, this episode offers a compelling blend of laughter, faith, and deep reflection, providing something for everyone.

Sponsored by Recusant Cellars, an unapologetically Catholic and pro-life winery from Washington state. Use code BASED at checkout for 10% off! https://recusantcellars.com/

Chapters

• 1:57 Pilgrimage Pitch
• 6:56 Ethical Debate on Euthanasia
• 19:31 The Moral and Ethical Dilemma
• 24:17 Navigating Faith Amid Culture Distractions
• 34:08 Media Narratives and Political Shifts
• 48:08 Secular Culture and Religious Conversations
• 53:50 Unpacking Dawkins and Cultural Decay
• 1:07:27 Post-Vatican II Eucharistic Apostasy Debate
• 1:14:29 Ambiguity of Vatican II and Modernism
• 1:24:11 Catholic Palooza and Media Narratives
• 1:29:48 Sweet Baby Philomena and Family Show

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:57

Thank you In days, forever. What's the problem? What's? The problem, guys, we're getting work.

Speaker 2: 2:04

We're getting work.

Speaker 1: 2:05

We're getting work Laughter, laughter, laughter, laughter, laughter. I'm saying something. Let's take a picture. Take a picture. Come going to take a picture, take a picture. Come, take a picture. Look, look, take a picture, let's go.

Speaker 3: 3:01

Hey Mewd, hey Mewd listen this is Tweet Abif. All right, that's enough.

Speaker 1: 3:07

Really, that's what you thought was so hilarious.

Speaker 3: 3:09

I was dying laughing at that man. Not a word of English. What's up, patrick? How are you?

Speaker 2: 3:16

I'm doing good. I'm trying to figure out how you got footage of the rehearsal for the closing mass at the LA Religious Ed Congress Amazing.

Speaker 3: 3:25

Oh no.

Speaker 2: 3:26

Is Patrick.

Speaker 3: 3:26

Rosen for you, Rob.

Speaker 2: 3:29

The video is choppy, but you can hear me. Yeah, I can hear you, abcdefg.

Speaker 3: 3:35

Yeah, we can hear you fine.

Speaker 2: 3:36

That's all. Actually, Anthony, I should probably disclose at this point that I am actually choppy. That's the problem.

Speaker 3: 3:45

That was the least funny AV intro. All right, I'm sorry, guys. I thought it was funny. All right, leave me alone guys. All right, before we get into anything, patrick, you want to do the pilgrimage pitch?

Speaker 2: 3:58

Let's do the pilgrimage pitch. I'm delighted to have Ant himself, Anthony Abate, hosted this fine co-host. Perhaps, depending on how Rob feels about you being called the host of Avoiding Babylon, he's the host, Okay? Well, wonderful, we're hosting together an Advent in Italy. Pilgrimage. It's going to be I hate using overwrought terms like life-changing, but if you've never been to one of the cradles of the Catholic faith in Western civilization, you need to go to Italy. We're going to be there for the first two weeks of Advent, Start to finish. It's 14 days, so we're getting a lot in.

Speaker 2: 4:34

We land in Rome, we're going to the Pantheon and St Peter's, the Vatican museums. We're going to San Giovanni Rotondo in Foggia and learn everything there is to know about St Padre Pio, Perhaps the highest profile Italian saint, who died in 1968, on September 23rd, A stigmatist, miracle worker, reader of souls and an amazing legacy of sanctity, and I can't wait for that. Then we're going to go to Loreto and to see the Holy House of Loreto there. This is this structure that small C, I guess small T, tradition says was carried aloft by angels from Nazareth to Loreto, with a stop off about a thousand years ago. The grout in between the rocks, the stone masonry, I should say, of this structure. This home is only germane to Palestine and it's believed to be the house where the archangel Gabriel approached the Blessed Mother for the Annunciation. So that is inside the Basilica in Loreto.

Speaker 2: 5:36

We're going to Assisi. Where do you start about Assisi? It's just the most beautiful medieval town, perched atop a mountain. You can almost hear the clip-clop of horses. We're going to learn about St Francis of Assisi and his close friend and collaborator in the gospel, St Clair. We're going to be in Florence and Siena. We're going to see three Eucharistic miracles, and I just want people to get hooked up with this, because we're already getting signups. We're pretty sure we're going to fill that first bus and we'll see what happens after that. But Allie is the one to connect you. Allie, she'll tell you everything you need to know about more information. 775-340-6047. And I see her. Her emails there. If you're listening but not reading, it's Ali A-L-L-Y. Alionthewayatgmailcom. Alionthewayatgmailcom. Anthony, I understand. Even though he's got a rich Cambodian background, ethnically speaking, I'm sure he'll enjoy this foray into Italy.

Speaker 3: 6:41

So I'm very jazzed. I love who he's on.

Speaker 2: 6:44

These are so fun. Yes, they're growth in holiness. Yes, we visit the holiest sites on earth, but we also have a blast and we think that sanctity is the best form of sanity, so I'm really looking forward to it.

Speaker 3: 6:56

Yeah, I'm going to cut that up into a nice commercial for us, because you do a much better pitch than I do.

Speaker 1: 7:05

I'm just like guys, we're doing advent in italy and uh, we're gonna go to a bunch of really good places, so I'll cut that up. Come along, yeah and yeah. Cut that into a clip and then we can put it into all of our videos when patrick's not here yeah, that's perfect.

Speaker 3: 7:14

Okay, great, yeah, maybe we'll do that. We'll, we'll make you guys watch that as an intro every video, um, okay, so, uh, patrick, you had reached out to me because you wanted to talk to me about the margo. How do you, how do you say her last name?

Speaker 2: 7:29

uh, I don't even know this too. I've heard two different ways. Uh, naranjo or naranjo n-a-r-a-n-j-o. This is the one of the one of the children of a couple in. Is it Coppell, texas?

Speaker 2: 7:43

Yeah, I don't know it's in the Dallas Diocese and I was alerted to this by someone who had some connection with the events. It's where do you start? Margot is a young woman, early 20s. Um in a car accident about four years ago and uh involves some pretty traumatic brain injuries and she is dependent on her parents and caregivers for uh, food and some other medical assistance. She's not dying. She's not incapacitated. Um, I refuse to use the term vegetative state. That's just dying. She's not incapacitated. I refuse to use the term vegetative state. That's just one more dehumanizing term that the culture of death uses.

Speaker 2: 8:29

And if you follow the social media events, when the driver who ended up causing her injuries was sentenced, the parents were there at the prison or the court case. I should say. They made a statement and at that time all along there was prayers and let's ask God for a miracle. No, no hint of we're going to. We're going to stop feeding her until recently. And then they the mother, kathy, on Facebook. I want people to not believe me. I want you to believe her.

Speaker 2: 9:00

On July 7th she did a live stream and posted it on her Facebook page. That's Kathy with a C and she's talking rather blandly about her daughter and she's sitting right there in the frame, inches from her mom, and then the conversation, the monologue I should say, turns to her planned death and how you know, essentially, margo's mission has been accomplished and uh, and as soon as she says, says phrases like quality of life, margo begins squirming and making sounds and moaning yeah, you need to watch it. And then she her eyes are kind of wildly looking around. Now, I am not a doctor, I am not diagnosing from afar. I'm just watching a video and seeing someone react where she was rather passive before then. Um, how many stories have you heard where someone seemed deeply incapacitated or even in a deep coma and they come out of it and they say I heard everything, but I was in this prison, I couldn't react, I couldn't say it, and so, oh my gosh so wait now who who is who?

Speaker 3: 10:09

because they put a stop on this, stop feeding order like who?

Speaker 2: 10:13

yeah, did that I understand a court intervened. Um the dad, mike, has made some announcements on facebook which are are kind of, I would say, weaponizable ambiguity, but the guardianship was also suspended and taken from them. So for now, the feeding mechanism by which Margo lives is now back in place, but they sound like they're doubling down.

Speaker 3: 10:37

Strange case, because in the in the terry shivo case, the parents were fighting to continue feeding terry shivo and the courts, or basically the hospital, was like no, we're, we're cutting her life support off, correct this? This is like the opposite, where the parents want to take the life, take the life support away, and then it seems like look, did somebody in, like did somebody start this process with the court? Or the court just jumped in.

Speaker 2: 11:03

That's unknown. It's unknown. I have a feeling that the media attention that they should have anticipated. I mean, if you're going to put this personal journey on Facebook, you're going to have people commenting, especially if they're practicing Catholics, and the defenders of this decision and this plan are very thin skin and defensive. And if you say anything other, than thoughts and prayers.

Speaker 3: 11:31

You'll be called all kinds of names and you'll be banned. What's crazy is? I was telling Rob about this. I'm not going to say who, but I know somebody. I have a family member that when he passed it was in a Catholic hospital. That when he passed it was in a Catholic hospital and the family asked the hospital to cut the feeding tube off and the hospital did it. I was like horrified and it was one of those situations where I it was before. I was like very like where I really started understanding the life issues. I just knew it was wrong and I just remember being horrified by what they were doing and catholic hospital was like, look, we're not supposed to do this, but we'll do it. And it like it wasn't until years later that it really hit me. What was going on there, but it really is. Uh, you have to imagine one of the most painful ways. You're essentially dying of thirst more than starving, dying of thirst.

Speaker 2: 12:23

There's a I think it's an article that summarizes the macabre science of dying by starvation. I think it's in mediumcom. If you just look up, what does it feel like? Or symptoms of dying by starvation? It's a method of killing someone that's so cruel that no state would ever implement this to a capital criminal.

Speaker 3: 12:47

Yeah, that's, and we don't know the like, the mental capacity of what a person in that state is actually experiencing. You just don't know. So they could be experiencing every bit of that pain, or we don't know experiencing every bit of that pain, or or we don't know. It's such a scary time we live in because we have like a whole bunch of stories lined up where, first off, um Bevelyn Beatty just got sentenced to three years in prison, over three years in prison, for protesting For people who don't know who Bevelyn Beatty is.

Speaker 2: 13:15

what's the cliff notes on her?

Speaker 3: 13:17

So yeah, we have an article on her. So um remember seeing Bevelyn Beattie when, when she was, it was a couple of years back she was like hailed as a hero. This woman, she was standing in front of a Planned Parenthood and she was blocking the door and one of the workers pushed the door open to let the person in and because Bevelyn was leaning against it, the door then closed on the person's hand. That was unintentional, so the state of New York declined to press charges. They dropped the case. Then the federal government, under this whatever the face act, brought the charges back up on her and she just got found guilty for injuring the woman. So this wasn't even and it was a complete accident. The FACE Act doesn't cover that. And now Bevelyn Beattie is doing three years in prison for protesting at a Planned Parenthood. It's insane.

Speaker 2: 14:17

There's definitely been a tectonic shift in the so-called culture wars toward an acceptance of death by euthanasia. I mean it's the hospital of your loved one, anthony, could be vulnerable to being complicit in first degree murder. Now, I don't know. I'm not an attorney, certainly not in the state ofxas, so I'm not sure what the laws are with regard to end of life protocols. But the parish saint anne's and with two ends named after the mother of the blessed virgin mary, they uh assented to scheduling her funeral on august 2nd are you kidding, before she's even dead?

Speaker 2: 15:00

yeah, so you have? No, you have no dead body, but they've they greenlit a funeral. Now the story is oh, we didn't know. I don't know who schedules things like funerals.

Speaker 3: 15:14

However, this was splashed all over Facebook and possibly elsewhere, and we saw, we saw, we saw, we saw a bishop in the past year come out and try to defend euthanasia like I don't know if you guys remember that I don't remember which bishops I I should have tried to look that up, but there was a bishop who defended it was.

Speaker 3: 15:39

It was something going on with one of the synods and it was just brought up because the stories kept coming up in Canada. Because Canada has lost its mind, like they've made it so that I mean, and you're Canadian, right Originally.

Speaker 2: 15:55

I'm a recovering Canadian. Yeah, I'm a US citizen now. Yeah, it's called MAID M-A-I-D Medically Assisted Inducement to Death, or something like that.

Speaker 1: 16:03

It's very popular there. Bishop Johan Bonny of Antwerp.

Speaker 2: 16:07

Johan Bonny of Antwerp. Yeah, the Belgian church has been dead since the late Godfrey Daniels killed it over 30 years under John Paul II. He's the one who coined the phrase St Gallen Mafia. He was the bishop there for many years who coined the phrase St Gallen Mafia.

Speaker 3: 16:23

He was the bishop there for many years Now. Canada is such an insane case because the amount of people applying to this MAID program reaches into the percentage of deaths in Canada. That's how many people do this.

Speaker 1: 16:34

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 16:35

Yeah, when you lose the anchor of the Catholic faith. Canada is more explicitly Catholic than the United States is Most of the provincial heraldry? You know the coat of arms and the Latin subtitles are all from scripture Ad mara, usque ad mara, which is the Canadian coat of arms. Designated motto is from sea to shining sea, which is a reference to one of the Psalms. The dominion of Canada is named for the scriptural, named for the Lord, the dominus, the dominion of the Lord. So Canada, particularly Quebec, has a very rich, solid Catholic foundation. It's in the DNA of the Bill of Rights and the other founding documents of Canada. So there's an old phrase it's Latin, but in English it's the corruption of the best is the worst. Yeah, so there's no, not that surprising that the places that were historically traditionally very Catholic and fervently so Quebec, malta, ireland are now just way inverted. Sixty three percent of Irishmen want fewer Irish in this world through abortion. How did we get here? Well, didn't, wasn't?

Speaker 3: 17:44

there wasn't. Weren't they going to put bring Pope Pius XII to Canada during World War II if he had to escape?

Speaker 2: 17:52

the Vatican. I did not hear that.

Speaker 1: 17:55

I think you think you're thinking of the British Royal Family.

Speaker 3: 17:59

Oh, okay, I thought I thought, because they saw canada as such like a catholic country, that if pious 12 had to escape the vatican, they were considering bringing them to canada. But it's just so wild where we've gotten to in our culture, man, it's just. New york, um, is no longer going to be treating late-term abortions as dead human remains. Yeah, yeah, I read that. So they're going to be they. They would have to, you know, apply to a morgue and they would have to actually have some kind of a burial process or a cremation process for these late-term babies. And now these abortion clinics can just do whatever they want with the remains. And you've seen enough stories with these clinics that you know these ghouls do things with the remains of these children. I mean, how many times you hear about one of these people keeping glass jars of formaldehyde with the baby's corpses in them in their homes.

Speaker 2: 18:58

There's a Mexican film director who's obsessed with this. His name is Guillermoermo del toro. He did um, hellboy and mimic, and look at his lab pen's labyrinth. He apparently was walking in mexico, walking hand in hand with his grandmother and he, they turned a corner and there was this big vat, some kind of container, and he, he saw something he wish he didn't. It was filled with dead baby's bodies from the sort of the back end of an abortion clinic, and that really got into his psyche.

Speaker 2: 19:28

So you see a lot of this imagery in his movies. They have to do this, anthony. They have to abuse language like that to justify the machinery and how much money is made. But think of the effect on families. How can you have a funeral for your non-human offspring? Yeah, by taking the name away. Even the name human you've effectively made of, undermine your, your enemy with an, you know, dehumanizing label to justify what you're doing. And the same thing is going on here.

Speaker 2: 20:09

Just circling back to the, uh, the margot naranjo or naranjo case, um, they're now saying and this is why it's a parallel with the terry shabbo case they they're saying that a few weeks before the accident, margot casually in a family gathering, they're watching TV or something and she said, oh, I would always want the plug pulled, I couldn't live like that, I'd want a quality of life. That's a new development. There's no sign of this in any coverage of her case, which is kind of high profile because it was tragic and sad and seemed like a sweet hearted family, beautiful young girl like Terry Shibo. But now they're saying now we're just doing what Margo always wanted. Nothing was written down. There's no proof, no verification.

Speaker 2: 20:54

They're just saying they're retrofitting the decision they now want to make now want to make.

Speaker 3: 21:03

You have to wonder what's going through the parents minds to think like that. Like, do you think they've just lost hope that their daughter will ever recover? Are they tired of going to the hospital, do they?

Speaker 1: 21:12

think we live in a world where everyone goes to heaven anyways. Who cares right?

Speaker 2: 21:17

they're definitely positing margo as heaven's next angel, that this is just something that's kind of an inevitable momentum. I think they're listening to the hospice industry. They're buying into the quality of life arguments which are completely opposed to the gospel. Life is suffering. Jesus Christ, the suffering servant, knew all about suffering, and that's where we derive meaning. Where we affix meaning to suffering is looking at him on the cross. Even though his ordinary will is to heal us. We have to accept the crosses that he sends into our lives and thanks be to God for medical progress and technology.

Speaker 2: 21:54

There's lots of things we can do to keep people alive and comfortable and know that they're loved in ways that previous generations could never have hoped to have done, and I feel for the parents. I don't want to throw stones at people who are in trauma. I lost a baby girl in 2006 named Naomi. She had a very rare condition called partial trisomy nine and she died at age 15 days. So I've been in that no man's land of what's extraordinary care. How do you pick the death date of your own daughter? It's it's you feel like you're it every day is a rock and a hard place, and over time it wears you down, and I think they're. I think they're listening to the wrong voices and I and I think they they. They need to be prayed for, not just praying for Margo, that she be spared and rescued, but that the parents come to understand what's at stake and that there's another option for them. What?

Speaker 3: 22:53

was that? Like Pat, do you mind talking about that a little bit yeah?

Speaker 2: 22:55

not at all.

Speaker 2: 22:58

If Rob wants to call it up. I wrote the whole thing down. It was published by Lay Witness Magazine. It's called I wrote the whole thing down. It was published by a late witness magazine. It's called grace at the heart of grief. You can put I do it on the fly, but I'll I can barely zero task. Grace at the heart of grief. You've just typed my name in that.

Speaker 2: 23:13

Um, all of the the sorrow, anthony, I'm glad you asked me about this. All the sorrow came with the news that there's something wrong with the baby. We about this. All the sorrow came with the news that there's something wrong with the baby. We knew within the first trimester there was something terribly wrong. Then a genetic test was done. I'm ordinarily opposed to the amnio test because I don't care. I want my son or daughter come hell or high water. I don't want to know all the things that they throw at you as a sort of subtle inducement to go for abortion. And so partial trisomy nine was the diagnosis, and many, many babies who die by by a natural miscarriage have some form of trisomy. Trisomy means three chromosomes where there really should be two in the pair. You got the, the 23 pairs. And if, if your extra bit of chromosomal matter is on the 21st. That's called trisomy 21,. That's better known as Down syndrome, and so the lower the number, the more devastating the damage is to the baby's brain. So in Naomi's case her brain couldn't run her body and we really weren't supposed to even meet her.

Speaker 2: 24:18

Let me just tell one anecdote, because this can become maudlin and sad. Um, let me just tell one anecdote, because this can become maudlin and sad. Since her funeral I have not cried a tear of sorrow. Yeah, I, I miss her. You know, I'll see a girl who's 16 and I'll think, yeah, nooms, our nickname for her was noomster. Noomster would be about that, you know about that big, that age, and so there's a kind of a wistful missing her. But also I baptized her. Our pastor, um confirmed her. She had the sacrament of the six. So that girl was packed and ready. But on the 23rd, so she was born.

Speaker 2: 24:47

On september 14th, the feast of the triumph of the cross, and on the 23rd of september, which is the feast day of saint padre pio, we brought into her hospital room in los angeles a little swath. It's a second degree relic of San Padre Pio. A friend of mine lived in that part of Italy and they got this wonderful relic and so, yeah, I patched it to her pillow with a little needle, a safety pin, and before I did that, I made the sign of the cross with Padre Pio's cassock on her forehead and inside of 10 seconds, naomi opened her eyes for the first and only and last time. So I got to stare at her for about two hours milky, beautiful ocean blue eyes and saying to her and wet her tears with, wet her hair with our tears. It was just so special and it was the priest who was attending to us.

Speaker 2: 25:46

The chaplain there I don't think he'd mind me mentioning his name is Father John Sigler. He was really magnificent. And he looks at Mary Claire and he goes hey, today's Padre Pio's uh feast day. And she said, yeah, it's my birthday too. Mary was about four at the time. And he says, uh, mary claire, I think I'm supposed to give you this. I was given this by saint john paul ii in paris and he gave it to her, so she still has it and in the center of the rosary it's it's the head of the face, rather of Padre Pio. He didn't know that it was her birthday, so all these little god incidents were were great, uh blessings for us, that's a good phrase.

Speaker 2: 26:26

God incidents right where you just know his presence is amongst you while you're going through all this yeah, despite your feelings, and and that's why the essay is called grace at the heart of grief, because sometimes the the truth is it's hard to accept, um, and and it shows you the difference between believing in god, assenting to the creed, obeying the magisterium. That's all great, but it's not sufficient. You have to trust. Believing in god is not the same as trusting your whole life with him and the life of your loved ones, cause you know we're. We're men and men are hardwired to protect. I couldn't. I couldn't protect anything.

Speaker 3: 27:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:05

Yeah, that's why, I was asking you about it because I'm thinking like I remember.

Speaker 3: 27:10

I remember anytime one of my kids goes through something, you just, you're crippled as a father. When you can't help, you know like everything in you just wants to take the pain away. You just want, you want to endure the suffering on their behalf. That's just your instinct as a father. And when you're helpless, it's what. It's almost more painful, when you're helpless than you know, than if you could actually go through some kind of suffering to help them. You know.

Speaker 3: 27:34

Yep, yep, agree and fall kind of suffering to help them. You know, yep, yep, agree and fall. However, how have you been uh, managing just the just the climate of everything in the culture right now? Have you, have you been, do you have any special devotions you've been doing to just keep your faith alive? Because I find what I've been going through the past two weeks especially is just, I feel this pull towards all the nonsense in the news and everything going on and a pull away from God right now. I'm like, I'm very distracted right now. I haven't been praying much. I cannot wait to go to confession. I'm, I'm uh, I'm doing something this weekend with my friend Enoch. I'm just, I feel very distracted the last couple of weeks. I don't know how you've been handling it. Yeah, I can relate to that.

Speaker 2: 28:19

The devil wants us not praying as much. The devil wants us afraid and confused, because all he can do is make noise and create confusion. There's nothing creative about the devil, it's the same. He's like a kazoo that only knows one song. I have to be very careful.

Speaker 2: 28:34

I do this on purpose no-transcript average of the five people you spend the most time with, and he always recommended don't start your day looking at the news. The news is all about news. It's death, it's rape, it's murder, it's war, it's rumors of war, it's earthquakes, it's tsunamis, it's, uh, carjacking, and I find I have to be careful. On Twitter, I can't call it X, yeah, I never will either. Have you seen? There's a lot of kind of crime and fear porn. What's this outrageous thing? And it's some woman carrying grocery bags and she gets cold, cocked in the head or carjacking. Why do I want that in my head? I don't want anything triggery like that. I want to spend more time in front of the blessed sacrament and less time siphoning from the garbage pit known as the interweb. So I think it's important that you you monitor what comes in garbage, in garbage out. If you wouldn't let a maniac in your house to damage your, your family. Why would you let a maniac into your mind to damage you?

Speaker 2: 29:55

So but I want to pick up on something you said, because today, as we speak, is the, is the launch of our new community. It's kind of Coffin Nation under a different name and the name is True North, the True North Movement, and the website is up and live. If you people want to check out Patrick Coffin dot media. Patrick coffin dot media. Uh, my governing principle when I'm picking a guest for the podcast is not conservative versus liberal, left versus right, catholic versus not trad versus progressive, whatever. It's all upstream from that. I'm really interested in people who know true north, whose fundamental lens is right and wrong, good and evil. I literally don't care about all the garbage words like conservative and liberal and so why have you done any new interviews?

Speaker 2: 30:44

Yeah, I've got. I've got five in the can and I'm working on the sixth we're rolling out with in fact it's dropping tomorrow with Dr Steve Mosher, the first American social scientist allowed into China in 1979. He has a book called the devil in communist China. Communist China, I think it is for the communist Chinese party. An amazing man, catholic, pro-life, the head of the population research research Institute. The next guest is Justin Leslie, a guy you've never heard of, but he's exposing James O'Keefe of project Veritas fame. He did a, uh, yeah.

Speaker 3: 31:20

James O'Keefe's got a lot of skeletons in his closet. Man, he, uh, he's a, he's a, he's quite the playboy. There's a lot of shady stuff with treats. Treats women pretty crappy, and I've seen some things already on the side. Just with you know for, for, just with you know for the guy who's claiming to be you know, mr Veritas, you know, I mean yeah, he's got some shady stuff going on.

Speaker 2: 31:46

Well, that's the beginning of the list, and Justin has a two part documentary called Project Whistleblower and I think your eyes are going to be open pretty wide about what Justin saw. Do you remember the, the Pfizer executive, the kind of gay black dude who was going on and on about gain of function? They got 50 million views on Twitter. Justin was the guy on the gay date with him. He's the one who catfished him to get all that footage, so O'Keefe trained him and I. His story is worth telling. So there's that, dr Peter Bragan, the conscience of psychiatry, on the Changing Definition of Mental Illness and how that definition has justified the sale to the billions, with a B, of psychiatric drugs. And I'll be speaking with actor Matthew Marston from Black Hawk Down. Transformers on White White conservatives need to pony up and start supporting things like movie studios. We're the worst. This is why we're losing Most.

Speaker 3: 32:41

We're terrible at art and culture and things like that. We have to really, I mean once in a while, when something good comes along. It's like you remember when, when what's his name? Shia LaBeouf converted. He played Padre Pio. You watched that movie. It was one of the most horrific movies I've ever seen. It's like the only miracle that came out of it is Shia's conversion. You know, and you hope that lasts.

Speaker 2: 33:02

Yeah, but just back to you said you were drawn to or you, I think, did you use the word magnetized by things that are kind of disturbing. Yeah, I feel like I'm being pulled away from God right now. Well, this is why it's called true north and not magnetic north. Magnetic north is the sexy, shiny metal object. Everyone's drawn to magnetic north because it has a natural draw to it, but it's not true north. If you're lost in the Amazon and you've got a compass, you're being pointed at magnetic north. You always have to make corrections. So true north is often more quiet, it's often invisible. You always have to make corrections. So True North is often more quiet, it's often invisible and it has the still small voice to it, as opposed to Magnetic North is what everyone runs to. So, plus, there's a line in the Canadian National Anthem, true North, strong and free, which I always liked. So if folks want to go to patrickcoffinmedia, they can find out more about membership and about the new everything. The new everything. What membership and about?

Speaker 3: 33:55

the new everything, the new everything. What do you make of what's going on in politics right now, man? Are you following along? Do you think any of it's real? What do you think?

Speaker 2: 34:08

Yeah, we're going to be talking about this inside the community, because one of the things we do is we identify media narratives and we analyze why are we permitted to see certain things but we're not permitted to see other things? So imagine three marbles on a table A, b and C. A is the actual historical event, c is you and I. Well, b is the go between, it's the medium between A and C, and it's still even though we have the digital revolution. You've got avoiding Babylon. You guys can talk about whatever you want pretty much I do too.

Speaker 2: 34:38

There are hundreds and hundreds of independent media organs, so to speak, but it's still monitored by, by big tech and Silicon Valley values and interests. So the things we're allowed to see have always gotten my attention. Let's take that. Let's just call it the Trump loud, the Trump loud noise incident in Butler. That. Let's just call it the trump loud, the trump loud noise incident in butler. Yeah, why are we only allowed to see two or three footage of people's um, uh, cell phone footage? It was a sea of people with their. So every trump event, like every rock concert there's people always?

Speaker 2: 35:11

no, we're only allowed to see a couple angles. Why did the secret service jump up five seconds later and do a slow, weird kabuki walk with trump's head still exposed, him going, fight, fight, fight with the little rivulets of blood? And then, uh, a new york times photographer named david mills. Remember that name, david mills?

Speaker 2: 35:29

there's a huge surprise winning photographer just happens to be in the right spot at the right moment well, the bullet that he allegedly captured is fired from what has been told to us as an AR-15. The AR. I did some research on this because I shoot the AR-15. I'm familiar with it as a rifle and the round goes about 2,200 miles an hour. So the size of the round and the distance between the target and the camera. Someone on Twitter who is a professional photographer weighed in on this and he said the setting of the shutter speed has to be at about one over 8000. So he was either waiting for a whizzing bullet shot or waiting for an exploding headshot. David Mills is also the guy what 19 years ago, who famously captured Andy Card. Remember that name? Andy Card was the chief of staff of George W Bush and he's whispering into George Bush's ear. Mr President, the Twin Towers have been knocked down in the element. Same guy, same photographer.

Speaker 3: 36:33

It's just so many coincidences, right, it's?

Speaker 2: 36:35

just, it's just so many coincidences, right, it's just, it's just a little. And when? I when? When the official answer is oh well, patrick, don't be a conspiracy theory. Wacko, the reason president Trump was allowed to stand up and and be surrounded, but still exposed is that the secret service they confirmed that the shooter had been neutralized. Oh, you're going to believe the same outfit that let this guy up on the roof? And, by the way, did you think about googling other possible shooter?

Speaker 3: 37:04

yeah, they don't know. Oh, we took one shooter out. You don't know if it's a coordinated attack. You don't know what's going on.

Speaker 2: 37:09

You're just gonna let the guy stand up like that and yeah, call me crazy, but I think it's just a little too perfect that the fist which is now, you know, a meme and a poster and merch, it's sort of it's got this Iwo Jima perfection to it.

Speaker 3: 37:24

There was a little glory. That's what I said, perfectly framed.

Speaker 3: 37:28

Like this iconic photo. Perfect, yeah, all right. So what's your take on Trump? Because I'm still not OK. So part of me is like I don't know what it is that they hate so much about this guy. He seems to be pretty normie conservative at this point. He's not even saying anything. That's not neocon at this point he's a fan of you know all of their. He just seems like a symbol to me. And what scares me the most about him I know everybody gets so mad at me when I talk like this. I'm just trying to really look at things. Since he's taken over the party, I see conservatives, the shift leftward and the Overton window shift. Since he's come in, he just seems like a figure who's there to kind of darken the intellect of the right and just let them start overlooking all these things that we used to stand strong on and we no longer do overlooking things like what who's who's doing the overlooking effort uh, wait we.

Speaker 3: 38:26

What do you mean what I'm saying?

Speaker 2: 38:29

you said, uh, uh, he kind of, since he's kind of taken command of the party.

Speaker 3: 38:33

You see the shift leftward yeah, in our, the conversation within conservatives now we're no longer even talking about gay marriage anymore, but like the overton window shifted so much that it's it's like what are we going to get if trump actually gets in? But you might get some good fiscal policies, like you might, but like nothing culturally is really going to be changed. I mean, we hope that he'll clean out the deep state, you'll hope that he'll do that schedule left and just fire everybody and maybe get some something done there. But to me it seems like we're all just Democrats from the nineties and early two thousands now.

Speaker 2: 39:13

Yeah, look at the choice of speakers at the RNC convention. Porn person Amber whatever her name is the bald lady. I see a big move toward people like the Log Cabin Republicans, the Open Homosexual Republican Group. Melania Trump, who's supposed to be a Protestant Catholic, has hosted fundraisers for them. Them raised, I think, $1.2 million a few weeks ago. Where's the wall? Where's the Mexican wall? Where's the swamp draining? Did I miss the swamp draining action? And you know Mega is going to go after me for this. But Donald Trump locked the country down. The guy who's famous for the words you're fired did not fire Anthony Fauci. Everything got rubber stamped and to this day he's still bragging about being the proud father of Operation Warp Speed.

Speaker 3: 40:06

So none of that computes with me, but it's either either like the cackling Kamala who's going to send my son to go to war in Ukraine, or I mean, I kind of have no choice but to be put in this camp. But I'm just I'm so unhappy with the conversations we have on the right now. It just seems like we've just let go any standard of what it I mean as as catholics we just have. No, we're just so politically homeless now as catholics. It's, it's absurd. I do like some of the things jd vance says. I like that he uh is a student of renee girard. Uh, he, you know there's this the more I look into him like I do kind of like that he's an isolationist.

Speaker 1: 40:55

He went after single cat ladies. That's awesome.

Speaker 3: 40:59

Yeah, I do like JD Vance kind of more than Trump now.

Speaker 2: 41:04

Well, he's a smart guy. I would love to interview JD Vance. I didn't see the movie because I didn't want to watch Glenn Close for two hours because time is so precious, but I would like to read the Hillbilly Elegy. I think his conversion seems completely legitimate. He's a deep thinker and a thoughtful man. Family man loves his wife. That's all great.

Speaker 3: 41:28

Very, very Zionist. Yeah, but I don't think you'll ever get. Look, you'll never get somebody in there without that position. It's just impossible. You can't become president unless you pay homage to italianism. It's just on both sides. Even kamala harris, who's desperately trying to distance herself from this stuff because the left is so nuts with the pro-palestine stuff, even she has to go and pay homage to she might be picking a jewish vice president yeah, I doubt that, but yeah, shapiro, booty juice is one nah, I the rob's talking about, uh, shapiro from pennsylvania, but I don't okay.

Speaker 3: 42:06

Yeah, I don't think it'll be him. Yeah, uh, who knows? Pillbilly elegy I actually just watched with my wife and it's a very good movie. I mean it was very well acted. It's a, it's a. It's a really good movie and it makes you especially knowing that he then becomes the vice presidential candidate instead of knowing further into the story. It's pretty interesting movie to watch.

Speaker 2: 42:26

I did enjoy it yeah, so much of it is is theater. Uh, another thing we're permitted to see is, uh, the cackler coming out of a music store and then being asked in an impromptu way by a reporter what'd you buy? Oh, porgy and Bess and Charles Mingus this one black musical artist after another, and there's videos of her pretending to be black. I think she should be on Fool Us, the Penn Teller show, because she went from Indian American to black. It just took four years.

Speaker 3: 42:55

The narrative stuff. Narrative stuff really, man, I don't think see, that's why. Because I was watching older clips of trump and, uh, the way he was talking in the 15 campaign, I'm like holy cow, like how did it happen where he got in and it was he just surrounded himself with neocons and it was just bizarre the way he was speaking before he got in and what actually happened once he got in. And just just seeing the way the narrative, like if it wasn't for Trump though, I don't think our eyes would have been open to how perverse the media was, because I was a neocon before trump. I was for the iraq war, I was you know all those I voted for. Oh, I voted for mitt romney, man, like I was a moment of silence for this honest man like I was just your typical republican.

Speaker 3: 43:53

Listening to rush limbaugh and sean h Hannity and just Trump coming in, just completely opened my eyes to what the media was doing, like we always knew they were left, but we didn't realize how, how they could actually take events that you saw with your own eyes and twist them to be something completely different and set up a parallel universe to where we live in two separate countries. Now there's's people, the people on the other side. They don't see the same thing you do. You live in a different world than the people on the other side of the political aisle yep, that's true.

Speaker 2: 44:26

Yeah, he was kind of the crowbar that both parties needed I. I credit him for that and I just don't know if, if any election is now trustworthy. That's how I feel. That's my jaded view. Were they ever really? Yeah, were they ever really?

Speaker 2: 44:43

I interviewed a very interesting guy named Mark Shaw about the suspicious death of Dorothy Kilgallen. Dorothy Kilgallen was a female journalist. She was the favorite panelist on the most popular game show probably in history, called what's my Line, and she was a friend of JFK's and she was given the only interview with Jack Ruby. She got two interviews out of Ruby in his jail cell and she proceeded to write a book that she said to friends was going to blow a lid off of the Warren Commission report and she was found dead in very suspicious circumstances in november 1965. The book, the book manuscript, was never found.

Speaker 2: 45:24

So mark shaw is a former criminal defense attorney. He wrote another book called poison patriarch which is about the kennedy father joseph, so rfk senior and jfk's father, very corrupt man and and helped rig the 1960 election with his organized crime and Teamsters and other union bosses in Illinois and West Virginia. And it was a quid pro quo get my son into the White House and you'll have some immunity. We won't go after you. That's the first thing Bobby Kennedy did when he was appointed Attorney General. Won't go after you. Yeah, that's the first thing bobby kennedy did when he was appointed attorney general was do exactly that. And that that goes into another layer of motivation to to kill jfk, because that that would have that got rid of the, the head of the snake. They knew if they killed bobby first, then they would have the, the full might of the us government, on their heads. So that that's a multi-layered causality story.

Speaker 2: 46:19

There's a Zionism story, by the way. There's a French author, laurent something, l-a-u-r-e-n-t. Laurent Guillot, maybe it starts with a G. You can find him on Rumble. I think it's called the Killing of the Kennedy Brothers or something, and his research is that there was a behind-the-scenes tension or disagreement between David Ben-Gurion, the then prime minister of Israel, and JFK. Jfk did not want them to have nukes and they wanted to have nukes. Yeah, so many layers to the ending.

Speaker 3: 46:52

Now you spoke with Robert Kennedy, right.

Speaker 2: 46:55

Yeah, I've talked to him three times in person and twice, one in a summit and one semi-podcast. Yeah, what do you make of him? Very sharp, Very. He's suffered a lot in his life. He has a lot of hard-won life wisdom. He is a very, very skilled researcher. As far as I understand, he does not have ghostwriters. He writes his books.

Speaker 2: 47:20

I wish his family was not so influenced by the late Robert Drinan, a corrupt Jesuit who gave the Kennedy clan retreat in the 1960s. And this is where the phrase personally opposed but was hatched, first taken up by Mara Cuomo and now every fake Catholic uses it. Very, very, very Zionist. And I don't understand as a thinking person, forget the Catholic faith. I don't understand anyone's devotion to abortion to that degree, especially when your organization is called Children's Health Defense. It seems like a cognitive dissonance. But he's thoughtful. I think he's in it for sincere reasons and he's part of that Kennedy iconic legacy. I am very disappointed that he's not allowed to debate anyone. Let the man speak. I want to hear from Marianne Williamson. That's how weird I am about free speech. I want the marketplace of ideas to sort out fact from fiction. Just let people, let adults chew on ideas and I wouldn't feel like the Democratic nominee.

Speaker 3: 48:26

If he had won, it hated us. That would be the difference, right, like I don't think he, I think he genuinely. I think he has some bad ideas on gun control, abortion, climate.

Speaker 3: 48:49

He has the typical left bad ideas, but he does seem like a genuinely good guy who wanted to do some good and he was very good on certain areas with big pharma, things like that. Like he was an interesting character. I did enjoy a lot of conversations that were going on with him. Did you catch any of the Jordan Peterson Joe Rogan conversation today?

Speaker 2: 49:11

No, I didn't. I watched maybe 15 minutes of him going all over the disjointed map with Elon Musk.

Speaker 3: 49:20

No the answer is no I didn't see it, man, because you interviewed Jordan Peterson years back and it was actually a good—. Yeah, four times. You did, oh, four times Wow.

Speaker 2: 49:28

Yeah, I was the first American host to interview Jordan Peterson. Back then he was a Tweety psych professor at the University of Toronto who was fighting the crazy pronoun brigade. This is before his second book. He had already written Maps of Meaning, but he didn't write Rules for Order. Yeah, I interviewed him.

Speaker 3: 49:44

Yeah, I remember you asking him why aren't you Catholic? He's like well, I started my own church. That's why I'm like why is this guy? It's just yeah he definitely.

Speaker 2: 49:52

He bobbed and weaved away. And now but his wife I met, tammy, was there during my sit down interview with him. I didn't really dream that she would be coming a Catholic through her miraculous healing from kidney cancer. That was beautiful.

Speaker 3: 50:05

So this conversation he had with Rogan today, man, it just made me realize how somebody who's in a state of mortal sin and doesn't want to hear about God will do anything to change the subject when God comes up. So Jordan wrote this book Wrestling with God. So the two major problems with this conversation that I saw it was almost it was a disastrous conversation. It was Jordan kept trying to talk about God and talk about biblical stories and he wanted to try to. You know he's like Joe, can I tell you a story and talk about biblical stories? And he wanted to try to. You know he's like Joe, can I tell you a story? We would try to open up something in the Bible and Joe would just go right to. Well, did you ever hear the thesis that the Christianity was started by psychedelics? And, like the whole, like Joe just could not sit and actually listen to anything Jordan was saying. Jordan was trying to make it palatable for the secular mind and relate it to some things that are going on today, and Joe just could not. He just had zero interest in it.

Speaker 3: 51:03

So the two major problems I saw with this conversation were that and the other is Jordan was going on Joe Rogan to promote things. He was going on there to promote selling his book and the other thing was this new Peterson University thing. So there wasn't an organic conversation. Like you, you and I are sitting here, we're having a conversation. We did the Italy thing in the beginning, but the rest of the conversation is just us actually talking. You know where Jordan was trying to make a pitch, the whole show and it just made the whole conversation Unlistenable. I can't. It was the first time I ever like hated a conversation between those two guys so good.

Speaker 2: 51:42

Jordan wanted to talk about scripture and meaning and wrestling with God and Joe wanted to go a full mushroom.

Speaker 3: 51:48

Oh, did you ever read the book where the thesis and it's? It's something you keep seeing with these guys where they want to. They don't. They've never read anything in scripture in their lives, but they want to tell you how well? No, this is all a translation issue like this yeah, this is a it was just translated wrong.

Speaker 3: 52:05

And how do you know that? It's like dude, you've never even read the stories, you've never even you have no concept of what the, what the bible is. You don't understand what christianity is at all and you just want to write it off as just people took mushrooms and came up with this story, as if one guy wrote the book or something. It's a very odd thing people in secular culture are doing, right now, it's true.

Speaker 2: 52:27

There's a terrific quote from chesterton uh, an open mind is an open mind is nothing. The mind was made to open but then close down on something Truth. So Joe's always. He's all over the map and yet a few months ago he famously said that you know we need Jesus and he hopes Jesus can come back soon. So he's a cafeteria agnostic.

Speaker 3: 52:52

Yeah, he reminds me of like kind of what Dawkins said recently. Right, dawkins was like Dawkins is an interesting guy too, because he's the one who started the whole God delusion and he wanted to talk about how religion is just this superstitious thing and it's just leftover stuff from the Middle Ages that we just need to get rid of. You know, the spaghetti monster in the sky stuff, all this stuff to write off. Religion convinces an entire generation that God isn't real and when he sees what comes about from that, I mean he evangelized the generation to think that God is nonsense. And what happened is a new religion popped up in Christianity's place and it took down the new atheist movement. Bad, that woke stuff really took down their movement. Bad, where they were infighting and arguing over I mean, it was basically Marxism entered his movement, because when you take God out of the equation, you get. Religion is inevitable. It's just going to pop up no matter what, whether you want it to or not.

Speaker 2: 53:51

I have a Richard Dawkins story, quick one, let's hear it. I invited him on Catholic Answers live because I was interviewing ed phaser professor ed phaser on god's existence. And I don't know how I got dr dawkins email, but he and I had a correspondence and I invited him to come on the show and have a conversation, knowing he'd probably say no, because what dawkins does is he says I only want to interview churchmen because he knows the churchmen are generally not trained in philosophy and they don't know much about biological darwinism. So he put on a guy named sean faircloth who at that time was running for, I think, governor of maine. He's the dawkins humanist society club, whatever president and he he came on the show. In fact, this is this belongs to a, a product that I put together called was on the best of catholic answers live q a open forums. So he's, he's one of the phone calls.

Speaker 2: 54:45

Um, so he was kind of deputized by dawkins to go on the show and he just changed the subject constantly. He wanted to talk about how the catholic church hates gays, that that was his whole thing. But, um, so dawkins after said he sent me a nasty gram by email. Uh, very upset that uh, me and my guest wouldn't let uh faircloth talk, which is silly. He, ed, was very, very patient with the guy and I learned that, oh, the reason, the reason why dawkins said he didn't want to come on because it was too late in England, although he listened to the whole two hours and then emailed yeah, but he came to an atheist convention, some secular humanist outfit in San Diego, and I went there and I, uh, I went there with uh, I can, I can disclose this, I think my sound engineer and the husband of Leah Darrow, ricky, oh, wow, uh, green, green beret. I kind of asked him to come because I there is a there's that 1% crazy factor in the atheist crowd. Yeah, there's a kind of an amoral weird thing there. So I went there, knowing I'd be very unpopular, and he gave his talk I kid you not, it was good Friday and it was probably 3000 people in this oversized auditorium in San Diego.

Speaker 2: 56:01

And in the middle of his talk he had a slideshow and he put up the slide of Jim Caviezel as Jesus on the cross and he says can you believe this? This is what Christians think? God is a sadist who would, who would, torture his own son. This, this is what christians think. God is a sadist who would, who would torture his own son, and the crowd guffawed and there's jeers and like laughter and then dawkins went on with his talk but the clicker would not forward that image. It stayed there and so 3 000 atheists stopped the jeers.

Speaker 2: 56:37

It felt like in my mind it was five minutes of silence of Jesus on the cross on good Friday, kind of getting the last word in. So finally he recovered and I got to the mic first of all and and I asked him why he didn't want to come on the show and why he always changed the subject. And then he changed the subject. It's on YouTube somewhere, but I don't know. I have a soft spot in my heart. And then he changed the subject. It's on YouTube somewhere, but I don't know.

Speaker 2: 57:01

I have a soft spot in my heart for all these guys, because if you had drone footage of the stoning of St Stephen and you were to watch it, one guy off to the side is going go, go, go, kill, kill, kill. Saul from Tarsus. Would anyone dream in that afternoon that this is the guy who would be the greatest evangelist in history, who would write most of the new Testament? So we need to pray for these high profile people because, you know, we're back to the René Girard, we're, we're, we're imitative people. We have mimetic desire, we want to we're influenced by our influencers, and I just want to know what's interesting.

Speaker 3: 57:40

Even even about that, um, even about the crucifix, uh, even the jim caviezel crucifixion scene being up there, he laughs at that. He has no idea. Like he, it just doesn't even dawn on him to actually ponder that what that scene has meant to western civilization. The idea of a crucified man as our god has shaped every single thought of our civilization. It's when you, when you really go through what the church fathers wrote about crucifixion and just seeing that God is a man crucified and it affects how you see the weakest in society.

Speaker 3: 58:27

Even when you look at Black Lives Matter and all these movements even Marxism is a warping of Christianity. It's seeing those who are oppressed as glorified because of the crucifixion. It's nobody in the ancient world would have seen the world the way we do. They would spit on somebody who was, you know, a poor person, was garbage to them and he just took so for granted. How much that image of the crucified man has affected the Western world and actually is the foundation for it, so that he, he goes through this and gets rid of Christianity for an entire generation. And now in his own country Islam has taken over and all of a sudden he's popping in and he says well, you know, I'm a cultural Christian, I think we should still celebrate Christmas and things like that. It's like no, no, you, idiot, you, you are the reason we're in the position we're in. You have to eat the freaking nonsense you put out for everybody.

Speaker 2: 59:25

Yeah, I bet he has to lie in now. He doesn't connect the fact that it's the crucifixion of Christ. That is the reason why he's now calling himself a cultural Christian. What does it even mean? It just means it's just code for nice person. Because I think Dawkins sees that if you call God Allah and Allah is not a father but a master, and you're not sons and daughters, you're slaves, that's going to be the foundation of a very different culture than if God is a father and you're adopted children.

Speaker 3: 1:00:06

And you can. The uk is pretty much fallen, you can see, um, they still crucify people in the islamic world as a form of torture. So if you, if you, we, see the cross as love, they see it as a way to torture people. Like it's such an inversion to understand that God is our father. I really don't, I mean people really don't think deeply enough about even making the sign of the cross. That when you're saying God is a father, like from all eternity, before God creates anything, he's a family, you know, and it's. Everything is kind of based on that. That. It's just. I really don't think people think about it enough.

Speaker 2: 1:00:40

Yeah, father's the deeper title than creator, isn't it?

Speaker 3: 1:00:43

yeah, yeah, yeah, you saw some people were messing around with in some of the more like uh, liberal parishes they would say things like the creator, redeemer and sanctifier instead of the father, son and holy spirit. Weird things to get rid of the gendered language of father. They don't realize the same thing. They're opening a door to something that they do not know what's about. To come through that door.

Speaker 2: 1:01:07

Yep, yep, a hundred percent. Yes, everything is whitewashed and everything's a euphemism. I pay attention to word origins. Any English word that begins with EU, whether it's euthanasia or euphoria. Eu is the Greek prefix for good. So euthanasia euthanatos is good, death A euphemism, is a good name. So this is the language of hospice care. This is the language of death. Is euphemism, is a good name, you know. So this is. This is the language of hospice care. This is the language of death. Is euphemisms, fake words to to disguise the reality of what's going on. End a pregnancy, terminate a pregnancy, not kill a baby.

Speaker 2: 1:01:53

And, I think, a culture that accepts tampering of the marital act and the call of marriage to vocation, the vocation of procreation, if I can put it that way. When you tamper with that through contraception, the logic is not only inexorable with regard to abortion, which you have to accept, to abortion, which you have to accept, yeah, contraception is the theory, abortion is the practice. I say this in my book the Contraception Deception but also at the end of life, if you are the master arbiter of life before it begins, in the way you treat your, your, your wife, as as a masturbation tool or as your co-creator partner in spreading the gospel so that heaven can have more saints for God to enjoy, and vice versa. If you're going to tamper with that at the beginning of life, how can you argue against tampering with it at the end, when it's even more tempting to do evil because it's disguised as good and mercy? That's why I call it mercy, killing, euthanasia, good death. Yeah. So this isn't one of the. It's another fallout of the tentacles of contraception yeah, we have, we.

Speaker 3: 1:03:06

I have an article I actually put in the show notes for today kids a growing number of americans say no thanks. When, uh, when journey mckay imagines having children, a series of scary scenarios pop into her mind the horrors of childbirth, risks associated with pregnancy, a flighty potential partner, exorbitant child care costs, abortion, care restrictions are also on her list of fears. So miss mckay, a nursing student from orlando, decided to eliminate the possibility of an accidental pregnancy. But first doctor she consulted refused to remove her fallopian tubes, insisting that she might change her mind after meeting her soulmate. For some reason, she said, society looks at women who choose not to make life harder for themselves as crazy. Next week she will speak with another doctor about sterilization.

Speaker 3: 1:03:54

Like Ms McKayay, a growing number of us adults say they are unlikely to raise children. According to a study uh by the pew research center, uh, when the survey was conducted in 23, 40, 47 of those younger than 50 without children said they were unlikely to ever have children an increase of 10 percentage points since 2018. Like this mentality is rising quickly. It's the, the, the dinks. We see it everywhere, right? The dual income, no kids, we're in a, we're in a culture. That's. This whole episode has just been about this culture of death. We're we're exterminating ourselves by not having children anymore with this contraceptive mentality.

Speaker 2: 1:04:33

What's behind parish closures? It's the fact that Catholics love contraception more than they love evangelizing and making disciples. If you stop having sterilized sex and if you start making disciples, it takes one generation and then we're. Then we're going to have a crowded church problem. We're going to have the problems that they had in in and Malta and Quebec a generation ago. Quebec, in the 20s, had the world's highest birth rate. Now it's pretty much neck and neck with Japan. When I was writing the Contraception Deception, the first edition came out in 2011, I think, and at that point Japan had already tilted over a very scary metric. Tilted over a very scary metric, and that is Japan began building more retirement centers for the elderly than nurseries for kids.

Speaker 3: 1:05:24

Yeah, once you, once you go below that magic 2.1, offspring the there is a there is a point of no return and Japan is a very homogenous society and they I just saw stories recently where they're opening themselves up to immigration because they need young people to pay for the old people, because that's what actually happens when you have a decline in in in birth, like that, like they have like lower than replacement coming in in in their, in their culture. I saw Bishop Barron. I saw clips from the Eucharistic Congress where he was trying to motivate the crowd and he's like just imagine if every Catholic in here went out and lived their faith to their fullest and decided to be radically Catholic, we could change the world in a generation. I'm like, yeah, but the church won't let us live radically Catholic right now, but the church won't let us live radically Catholic right now. It's kind of a strange thing where whenever we try to live a radically Catholic life, we get called rigid or we get called all these names. So I don't know how this problem actually gets fixed.

Speaker 2: 1:06:27

It gets fixed by families, I think, and and the father influencing the family instead of the mother running absolutely everything. It comes with getting rid of happy wife, happy life. It comes with identifying and confronting childhood attachment injuries, childhood trauma. It comes with better marriage preparation. Um, where was bishop baron when bergoglio locked 1.1 billion catholics out of the sacraments? Yeah, why was he part all of them? I mean all every mass army?

Speaker 3: 1:07:01

uh, no one stood up yeah, you had a couple of rogue priests that were willing to go against what their bishop was saying, but all in all, pretty much unanimously, they all closed down. I remember crisis had that map where it was just black across the whole country. They put like every diocese that took away the sacraments and it was just slowly clicking and eventually the whole country was just black. Every bishop just said, nope, no sacraments for you.

Speaker 2: 1:07:27

Isn't this connectable to the Novus Ordo Missae culture post Vatican II? Is there? Is it really shocking that only about 30% of Catholics believe that Jesus Christ body, blood, soul and divinity is present in the Holy Eucharist? Because locking Catholics away, including letting people languish in old age homes and hospitals to die alone, that's a sign of apostasy with regard to the Eucharist. How can you believe that it's really our Lord? How can our Lord transfer a virus that will kill you? I mean, we were allowed to go to grocery stores unmolested. No one seemed to care about that. We didn't have to handle vegetables with gloves on, and yet you know, the Eucharistic extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion had their squirt-a-thons to protect you and everyone else from the danger known as our Savior in the Eucharist. It's crazy.

Speaker 3: 1:08:24

I remember, immediately after when you finally got to go back, all the short-haired lesbian Eucharistic ministers with their coat like this they almost looked liturgical. They'd get up there with their hand sanitizer. It was wild. You forget, we forget, man, we're, we're. We really forget how crazy that period of time was, from 2020 to like 2020, mid 2021, 2022. They, they, we, we memory holes, so many things. It's insane to me what they did to us.

Speaker 2: 1:08:58

Yeah, don't forget the nurse-coordinated dances. Remember those, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:09:04

Yeah, part of the narrative that they allowed us to see.

Speaker 2: 1:09:08

Yeah, right, that was permissible footage. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, you can go to strip. You can go to strip. I was talking Go ahead. I was true. Yeah, you can go to.

Speaker 3: 1:09:16

Strip. You can go to Strip, go ahead. I was talking to somebody recently I don't want to say who it was because they're pretty prominent and if they want to say this on their own they can but they were saying they are starting to think more and more that the time of the Gentiles was fulfilled when Pope Paul VI lays his papal tiara down and allows the UN to essentially become you know, the governing. It used to be the universal church that told the nations what they should do and then he kind of laid it was right around the time of the council. You get this new order of the mass comes out, he lays his people tiara down and we've just been dealing with the ramifications of everything since then.

Speaker 2: 1:10:06

I think people should re repay attention to folks that they may have written off because of later decisions they made, and one of those people is is the late Michael Davies. You read anything or seen Michael Davies? He was in the end a member of the SSPX. He has a very interesting and insightful summary of what happened at Vatican II and all the schema that were completely trashed before they got the editing process started in 1962 and how Benigni and the consilium kind of took over and it's worth watching. The Remnant had a summary of a talk he gave in Milwaukee when Rembrandt Weekland the now openly gay Rembrandt Weekland was still scamming Catholics for hush money and so on.

Speaker 2: 1:10:57

It's worth watching because Catholics in the trad con space love to complain about the spirit of Vatican II. We love to say things like well, you know, catechism has been in the toilet for the last 60 years. No one ever says hmm, what happened 60 years ago? Oh, don't, you're falling into the post-proc pop. Know the, the post. I forget the fallacy. It's a legitimate fallacy. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc, we had the largest bleed out of the church, out of religious vocations. Seminaries took a tumble. Humana Vitae was released. It's not very well written. It's not terribly persuasive. It's only 31 paragraphs long. The strongest language he uses about contraception is illicit. He never says mortal sin. It's like a much more milquetoast watered-down version of Casti Canubii from Pius XI in 1930. And he never disciplined any cardinal, bishop, theologian or priest who dissented.

Speaker 3: 1:12:26

There was no canonical punishments for dissenters. Okay, so, because this is, we talked a little bit about this last time you were on, but when did you? When did you start to? Because, Patrick, I remember listening to you. You were, you were along with me, All of us were those guys who were. It was, it was just the spirit of Vatican too. It was the council of the media.

Speaker 3: 1:12:50

We were the hermeneutic of continuity guys Like we all parroted those phrases, all of us, every one of us. Like I'm not saying anything about when, when did you start to go? Okay, wait a minute. I'm I'm just kind of mimicking things that I've been told. But there's, there's an issue here, like some some, something happened there. When, when was that changed?

Speaker 2: 1:13:09

for you. Uh, it was after Amorous Letitia was was released. That's my nickname for Amoris Laetitia. I was talking into my phone and it came out. The voice text recognition said Amoris Laetitia. I thought it was hilarious, so it kind of stuck.

Speaker 2: 1:13:29

That's when I connected the documents of the Second Vatican Council with the documents of Bergoglio and all the weaponized ambiguity that we complain about under this since March 2013. All the time bombs are there. The reason why there's even a discussion about the spirit of Vatican II is because of the existence of the letter of Vatican II. You notice, there's no such thing as the arguments about the spirit of Trent. How come? Because the letter of trent is unambiguous. So the bishops that crafted the documents, yeah, with their, with their parity right, their, their theological experts. They were really the ideologues that ran the second vatican council in the editing and the final polished versions of the main 16 documents, and they brought them back to their dioceses, this is, 3,000 bishops from around the world, and they implemented what they wanted, based on well, if this, then we mean that. If that, then we mean this. If you read, don't believe me, go to Gaudium et Spes. It's the longest document. I think it's longer than Sacrosanctum Concilium. And section 48 has a footnote, because the discussion is contraception and rather than affirm the contraception is a grave sin, it's a mortal sin, it's, you're branded with the discussion of contraception until the Holy father's natality commission renders its verdict. Would you do that about the treatment of women, or poverty, or the environment? Have some of this tentative spirit? Of course not Just so. So another, another. So I'm, I'm getting, I'm edging into the full answer to your question, anthony. It's a good one. There's an ambiguity about the council itself. Now, I'm not coming to any conclusions. I'm not a state of the contest. I'm not saying we should delete the whole thing. I'd have to chew on what Archbishop Vigano has said about the Second Vatican Council.

Speaker 2: 1:15:36

Catholics are taught to believe that ecumenical councils, by definition or by nature, are infallible, and that's always been true for the first 21 even excuse me ecumenical councils. What makes this one different is the ambiguity in the very packaging of it's a. It's always described as a pastoral council. You've heard that a million times. Right, oh, it didn't define anything new. If it didn't define anything new, why are three of the four main documents called dogmatic constitutions? Day eve rhythm on divine revelation, lumen jensium on the church and sacrosanctum Concilium. The first one that was produced, by the way, it was on the mass, which is a reference to the traditional Latin mass, not the Novus Ordo Missae. That was on nobody's mind in 1962. That took seven years to germinate. So, on the one hand, you have dogmatic constitutions which sound oh, I don't know dogmatic but it's packaged in a pastoral council.

Speaker 1: 1:16:39

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:16:39

Everything since then has been with that lens of pastoral. So they you know we're not going to change the dogma, but in practice this is what we're going to do. It changes the dogma in you.

Speaker 2: 1:16:50

I'm looking at a picture of me and the late Holy Father, benedict XVI. Thanks to my friendship with Cardinal Burke, I got to meet him in April 2012. And I was a rabid fan of his writing when he was Joseph Ratzinger, dating back to my first encounter with him, which was his series of lectures published as Introduction to Christianity, and I think he's credited with the phrase, or made it popular, hermeneutic of continuity. Why do you need hermeneutic of continuity? Yeah, why do you need hermeneutic continuity If, unless the documents themselves, the letter of Vatican two are so problematic that you have to have a fix for the problem called the hermeneutical continuity? I'm not a church historian, but I have a feeling there was no debate about hermeneutical continuity 40 years after Trent or Vatican I or Florence or the other ecumenical councils, because the documents, like them or love them, agree or disagree, they're clear. They're clear and this is not clear.

Speaker 3: 1:17:50

How has your nostalgia for Benedict changed? Because I mean, we grew up under these guys. Like, I still love John Paul, the second. It's just you see him in a very different light now than you did, knowing that he's the one who elevated Bergoglio, knowing that the SEC meeting you hear all the things that in the moment we kind of overlooked all these things because we saw what a great evangelist he was. Traveling the world, the world youth days, all these things. Now I look back on I'm like these things are actually pretty disastrous, but you still have that nostalgia for, for the man watching him take down communism and things like that. But benedict especially, we all thought he was god's rottweiler, you know, and then you kind of look back on it like maybe, maybe he was more of a puppy dog.

Speaker 2: 1:18:37

Well, having been in his presence, he's more like a combination of lamb and lion. He's not a Rottweiler and he's not really a puppy dog. He's very grounded. I've never met anyone before who had more palpable joy about him. He was tired that day. It was in the morning, it was a Wednesday audience. I introduced him to my late father and it was a great grace-filled encounter. He clearly, according to his interviews with Pete Shaywal, did not want to be Pope. He begged to resign from the CDF under John Paul II three times and the Holy Father said no, he was infirm, he was surrounded by enemies, and I mean we don't have to rehash this case again. But I am convinced by the arguments from a canon law point of view that he did not resign validly and he did not do so on very, very much on purpose by not resigning the munis with the office. That's another story for another day. I think we've covered it before.

Speaker 3: 1:19:34

Did you see when Biden stepped down?

Speaker 2: 1:19:35

I mean I wrote that too.

Speaker 3: 1:19:38

I said Biden didn't resign the Mooners.

Speaker 2: 1:19:41

Yeah, he's still the president. Yeah, he's the Mooners holder and he knows it. Yeah, I did. I enjoyed that.

Speaker 3: 1:19:50

Yeah, I'm a Biden vicontist.

Speaker 2: 1:19:54

Yeah, I think the taproot here is modernismism. Anthony, I'm going to be doing a lot more of this inside the true north community. Modernism as it developed after the enlightenment, with its roots in the, in the protestant revolt. I'm training myself to stop saying reformation it's yeah garbage term, yeah, it's a revolution. Um, it is what pius the tenth, saint pious the tenth, said in 1903 and 1906. It's the. It's the synthesis of all heresies. It, at bottom, modernism is the exaltation of man over god. That's what modernism is. It's anti-supernaturalist. It it lives off weaponized ambiguity. It's the non serviam. It writs doctrinal, and you hear it all the time.

Speaker 3: 1:20:41

It's very much what the catechism in 675 describes as the religion of man. You know I mean it really is, and you see it in practice that everything exalts man over God. Everything from the way we worship now, everything from how we handle doctrine, how we handle dogma, how we handle liturgy, Everything is man-oriented. It is no longer what is owed to God. It is now. It's no longer love God and love your neighbor, it's just love your neighbor and don't worry about loving God so much. It's a warping of Catholicism. It's like a Catholic skin suit, but it's lost its heart.

Speaker 2: 1:21:22

Yep, that works for me.

Speaker 3: 1:21:27

Man. All right, dude, this was fun. Man, we're going to try to get you on a bunch of times before we do this trip.

Speaker 2: 1:21:34

Yeah, do you want to talk about the? Do you want to do one more pass at it? Why do you want to talk about the? Do you want to do one more? Uh, pass that why? Why do you want to go? Because you really lit up when I invited you and I can tell this is not just oh, nice trip. Thanks for this, pal.

Speaker 3: 1:21:44

you, you were all chips in I've never been to europe and if I'm going to go, I want it to be a pilgrimage. I don't want it to just be a sightseeing, touristy thing, and especially the way you described it to me it was like and especially because of all the crap that's going on in our culture right now. I need to detox from this stuff and go do a 14 day prayer journey and go see the saints and go see. I want to get, I want to get connected back to my faith and I I'm really looking forward to it.

Speaker 2: 1:22:18

It gives you a chance to give your year a kind of Sabbath, where you are disconnected, but you are not disconnected from the darkness, you're connected to the light. Italy, like France, is a saint-making machine. Every village, every town, every city we're going to go to, you can put a blindfold on and open your eyes and point anywhere and you're going to see a beautiful church or a restored monastery or the best food in the world, and we're going to have a lot of fun. We're going to have daily mass. We have a really magnificent priest from Cape Breton, nova Scotia, father Douglas MacDonald. He's just such a great, really great man. Daily mass, every day.

Speaker 2: 1:23:00

We decided to not fight that all the traditionis custodis, you know, battles. So we're going to have Nova Sorda Missae in Latin opportunity for confession, every day, and it's a chance to grow in friendship with people that and from multiple countries. This is what happened when we went to France and Portugal with Bishop Strickland, who was so great he couldn't make it with, uh, with to Italy with us this time, but he'll be joining us in some future trip. These are friendships that are forged, um, often for life and uh, a lot gets disclosed and a lot of a lot of faith is deepened. Do you want to give out Alliecom?

Speaker 3: 1:23:40

Yeah, put that banner up, Rob. Yeah, patrick, I'm looking forward to just sitting with you at dinner, having a glass of wine together and just being able to talk. Man, this is going to be an exciting, exciting trip.

Speaker 2: 1:23:51

So for non only hearing, not watching. It's Allie is our travel coordinator, 775-340-6047. That's 775, area code 340-6047. Her email is Allie, that's A-L-L-Y. Allieontheway at gmailcom. Allieontheway.

Speaker 1: 1:24:11

Anthony, I can't wait until you ask a bartender in Italy to make you a rocket fuel.

Speaker 3: 1:24:15

Wait, no, I have Enoch coming up this a bartender in Italy to make you a rocket fuel. Wait, no, I have Enoch coming up this weekend and I'm going to make him drink while we go to Fire Island on Sunday.

Speaker 1: 1:24:23

Poor Enoch.

Speaker 3: 1:24:24

Oh man, that's going to be a fun little thing too. Yeah, we're doing. Oh yeah, also, if you guys are in the area, saturday, the Catholic Palooza show in New Jersey. If you guys are within driving distance and want to come and hang out, we'll be me. Enoch, thursday from Pints with Aquinas. There's a bunch of guys going. I want to go to one of those. It's a music festival, but they asked me to go and they're like do you want to do a show from there? I'm like I guess I'm just going to interview a couple of the guys that I know. They give me like a half hour. I got to fill, so I'm going to go and have a fun time, so nice Cool.

Speaker 1: 1:25:01

You fill half an hour with talking.

Speaker 3: 1:25:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:25:04

I could pull. It's going to be tough. Put yourself on one point five X to get it all in. Well, thanks for the invite, brother. If folks want to find out more about the True North movement, Patrick Coffin dot. Media, the blog, the fresh guests on podcasts I'm trying to induce Oliver Stone to come on my show to talk about JFK and media narratives. He wrote the forward to a book by Dr Cyril Wecht, author of JFK Assassination Dissected. Unfortunately, Dr Wecht died on May 13th May. He rest in peace. But Oliver wrote the forward to his book before, before we go.

Speaker 3: 1:25:39

I want to jump into that real quick, because the guests you're choosing are. It's kind of refreshing, especially coming from. Uh, from my point of view, right, we do a catholic show, we're constantly talking about catholic topics. Every episode is a scramble to see okay, what, what are we going to talk about? I would imagine, as somebody doing a show like this, to just talk about other things is probably like refreshing a little bit, right, like you're not just stuck into the this one zone where you have to cover this one thing and you get to actually open up your horizon a little bit. That's probably really exciting.

Speaker 2: 1:26:14

Well, it's a balance. I don't want to be a blunderbuss, you know, like a wide open rifle with that that shoots buckshot. I want to be more like a laser. So my laser is the triple intersection. Think, think of a three way street right Faith, culture and media narratives. So within that there's a lot of different topics, but I tend, because of my ADHD, I tend to be a little too eclectic. You can't have a show about everything. Yeah, with apologies to eric metaxas, your show really has to be about one thing. And once you find that lane, then you see all the little ancillary topics that can be added to it. But you don't want to drift too much. You know music and celeb culture and history and you know fly fishing you know it, fly fishing.

Speaker 3: 1:26:57

It has to have a narrative, it has to have a master narrative that you're trying to weave in and out of, but it's still good to get, you know, a little bit of flavor mixed in there, I would imagine.

Speaker 2: 1:27:07

Yeah, I find the Catholic space very hard to deal with now because it's all infighting and fistfighting and the chaos under Bergoglio. It's just a very. The brand of Catholicism has been so badly damaged by this guy. It used to be that, you know. Just look at from one point of view, because you mentioned media Common sense question Did the media love or hate Benedict and John Paul II? They hated him, hated him, right Hated him, right Hated him. Yeah, god's Rottweiler the Panzer. Cardinal John Paul II, rigid anti-woman, polish misogynist yeah. Does the media love or hate Francis? Oh, he's the media, darling. So another thing I want my pope to be hated, even if it's a bad pope. I want his guts hated out because it makes me love him more, because I know he's faithful to Jesus Christ, who gave us in baptism the fine print if the world hates me, it's going to hate you.

Speaker 1: 1:28:04

That's why Alexander VI is Anthony's favorite.

Speaker 3: 1:28:06

He's my favorite. Alexander VI. He's a very misunderstood character.

Speaker 2: 1:28:15

Just like the other misunderstood character, uh, charles manson listen, I think.

Speaker 3: 1:28:22

I think pope alexander the sixth was destroyed by julius, or julian, pope julius julius the second yeah, julius the second. I think he was slandered by him. I think he was all about same thing media narratives. Was he a Borgia?

Speaker 1: 1:28:36

Yeah, Alexander VI was yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:28:40

Did Jeremy Irons play him?

Speaker 3: 1:28:43

Yes, and he played him phenomenally.

Speaker 2: 1:28:44

I love Jeremy Irons. There's another guy I want to go after.

Speaker 3: 1:28:48

If there's an actor I could ever interview, I would want to interview Jeremy Irons. I want to talk to him about playing Alexander VI and the Mission. Those two roles he played. I fricking can watch them over and over and over.

Speaker 2: 1:29:01

He also played Charlie Manson in a music video. No, he didn't, I'm just kidding. Yeah, I didn't know that he said. He said something and this may be why he's off the grid altogether. He's married to a Catholic and about in an interview about seven years ago.

Speaker 3: 1:29:15

I remember this.

Speaker 2: 1:29:16

Yeah, he said God bless the Catholic church. They're the only organization against abortion.

Speaker 3: 1:29:20

It's like and you know what else I said when they were talking about gay marriage. Uh, he said you know, I just worry that if we open the door to this, that you're opening the door to a Pandora's box and you don't know what's going to come through it. He was 100% right. He said this at a time where I was shocked that he said I got to try and find that clip. It's a really good clip, roger.

Speaker 2: 1:29:48

Who's the absurdly sweet baby?

Speaker 1: 1:29:51

This is Philomena, so cute. Yeah, she is. Yeah, she's growing up.

Speaker 2: 1:29:59

A family show, ladies and gentlemen? Yeah, Awesome.

Speaker 3: 1:30:02

Yeah, with Kathy you're going to see babies popping occasionally. But, Patrick, thank you so much man, we'll talk again soon.

Speaker 2: 1:30:06

Sounds great, brother. God bless you.

Speaker 3: 1:30:08

All right, rob, take us out, all right.

Speaker 1: 1:30:29

Okay, satsang with Mooji. Amare morti decadas nos In te speraverum.